WEBVTT - Opera Diva Worship w/ Ira Siff 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.880 Welcome to the Laverne Cox Show, a production of shawond 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:09.399 Land Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. She hit 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.920 this partner when she gives up Rado the portrait Brandy 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.880 qu'st day, Margina, you know, but I did it Alla 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:22.759 Strand who has margin. We used to call that the 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:25.720 scotto me ow, kind of like Cuisoka cat the owing. 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:27.920 And she got it do to and she loved it 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.080 because well it was about her, and what Eva wouldn't 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:45.080 love something that's about them. Welcome to Laverne Cox Show. 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:58.280 I'm Laverne Cox. You've just heard the bella voce. The 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:03.080 beautiful voice of Virus if performing says alter Ego Madame 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:06.960 Vera Glupe Borshed, one of the founding members and the 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:16.360 primadonna of La Grande Shana Opera Company. For those of 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.520 you who may not be familiar with all the opera 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.800 terms we used, there is a glossary of opera terms 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:27.839 in our show notes. I was about ten years old 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:32.200 and I was watching PBS and they had announced that 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:34.800 Leontine Price was going to be on. I knew who 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.440 Leontine Price was because my mother gave me a black 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.200 history book when I was six years old, and I 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:42.760 used to stare at the photo of Leontine Price. She 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.000 was wearing a turban and she had these high cheek 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:47.880 bones and these very full lips. I thought she looked 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.960 like me, and I was just transfixed by this photo. 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:53.720 But I had never heard her sing. She's standing there 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:57.280 in this sort of militaristic stance, and she opens her 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:03.120 mouth and the most beautiful, awe inspiring sound comes out 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:08.000 of her, and it felt like this oval of earthy 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:12.640 vibration coming at me through the television. I just remember 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:16.840 shaking as I heard her sing, and I was hooked. 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:22.520 It was that moment in two watching PBS and Leontine 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:40.359 Price that made me a lifelong loan Prevan. Leontine Price 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.880 was a huge fan of Lagron Shana and referred to 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:49.839 Ira Siff as Madame Ira Siff found it in ninete 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.560 Lagron Shane I presented loving spooks of opera where all 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.840 the women's roles were performed by men and drag singing 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:02.079 an exquisite operettic falsetto. She's head of the company. La 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.720 Grande Shana is unbelievable. Ira Siff is one of the 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.120 greatest artists in the world. Though they are calculated to 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:12.120 be a spoof, they are the finest singers I have 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:16.320 ever heard. They have everything that is top drawer in 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:21.880 an opera ambiance. I just adore them. I met Ira 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.760 Siff for the first time in to study singing. Not 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.639 only did I want to sing opera, I had hoped 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.119 Ira could help me with a vocal transition, if you will, 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:36.680 from base baritone to soprano. If I ever have made 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:39.920 a beautiful operatic sound, it is likely because of Ira Siff. 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.120 He is an unparalleled performer and vocal artist. In the 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:47.480 year two thousand he began to direct operas. Mr Siff 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.840 writes for Opera News, is a weekly contributor for the 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:55.520 Metropolitan Opera Broadcast. Gives riveting lectures on opera for the 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.320 met Opera Guild, some of which are available in podcast form. 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.840 You must go check them out. I believe Ira Sif 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:08.480 to truly be a national treasure with exacting and uncompromising standards, 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.760 yet beautifully encouraging and supportive. Not a lot of people 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.240 have been in my life for over twenty five years. 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:20.120 I truly love Ira Sif. Likely in teen price, I 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:22.440 believe he is one of the greatest artists in the world. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:44.560 Please enjoy my conversation with and celebration of Madame Ira Sif. Hello, Ira, 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:47.160 welcome to the podcast. How are you feeling to die? 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.200 I'm great, I'm happy to be with you. Vern of course, 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:56.080 I had to begin the podcast with the way La 0:04:56.080 --> 0:05:01.000 Granjena performances often began with the righte of the Valkyries 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:13.400 from Wagner. How does it feel for you in sixty 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:16.359 years after this is your sixtieth anniversary, are going to opera? 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:20.360 How does it feel to hear that in this moment today? Well, 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.320 it's very nostalgic, of course, because it's about thirty years 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:28.039 since that particular performance. Although we sang Valkyrie I don't 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.400 know five hundred times during tours between eighty one and 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:36.560 two thousand and two. So when I hear it, it 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.799 really takes me back and I feel two things, of course, 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.880 and you will understand this, being the perfectionists that you are. 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:45.800 I think, Wow, that was exciting and fun, and then 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:49.000 I think, oh, I wish I'd done that no better. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:53.720 M hmmm. Is there ever a moment when you can 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:59.280 listen to yourself and not have critique? I would say 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.360 no moments when I don't have critique, but in spite 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.760 of that, I can hear things that I actually approve of, 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:11.080 oddly things probably later in my singing career, where I 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.760 feel technically things were really in line, even though the 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.200 voice wasn't as fresh and easy as it had been. 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:21.600 But then I think, oh, there's some really serious mature 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.120 artistry going on here with the comedy, and that makes 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:35.119 me kind of happy. So I wanted to begin with 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:40.440 what inspired lacros Shana and your love for opera, And 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:43.160 I want to start um sixty years ago with that 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.120 iconic year that Lantine Price made her debut at the 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.800 Metropolitan Opera and an Australians upon her named Jones sutherlandand 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.640 also made her debut at the Metropolitan Opera, and you 0:06:54.720 --> 0:07:00.719 happened to be there for lah Stupendas debut New York City. 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:04.080 Can you tell us about how you found your way 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.720 to the opera in n when I was fifteen, And 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:11.320 it was very strange because I met this kid in 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:14.000 high school. It was what we would now call, I guess, 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:18.000 a nerd, but I found him endlessly amusing and very intelligent, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.200 and his parents were into this thing called opera. I 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.040 knew nothing about it. My parents had taken me to 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.920 Broadway shows. I saw a lot of great you know, 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.720 my Fair Lady Gypsy, all these great musicals and plays 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.760 with original cast, but I've never been to the opera. 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.200 And his name was Robert, and Robert said, we'll come 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.000 over to my house and we'll go in my parents 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.800 finished basement, and we're going to listen to this new 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:44.720 recording that just came out of Luccia de l'amimore. I 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:47.280 had no idea what that was with Joan Sutherland, I 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.080 had no idea who that was. And I'll prepare you 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.240 with the libretto and then we'll go to the men 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:55.560 and we'll see it. So I heard this thing, and 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.240 I followed it with the words the Italian and the English, 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.800 and I was, you know, it was ice. Then I 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.200 went and we stood all the way up in the 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.960 family circle standing room, miles from the stage, and she 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:12.400 began to make that noise that she made in Nie. 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:15.440 It was something extraordinary. I'd never heard anything like it. 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.240 And by the end of the big mad scene that 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:26.120 climax is the opera for the title character, there was 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.120 something like twenty eight curtain calls. The place went berserk. 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.960 She was astonishing at that time, darting up and down 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:37.280 the stairs all over the stage while trilling and doing 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.520 this incredible virtuosic sinking. So I was. I was completely 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.920 blown away, and I left my poor friend Robert in 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:47.040 the dust and started going to the met in standing 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.200 room to three times a week, telling my parents I 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.960 was in school doing an art project, making up all 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:55.600 kinds of excuses. My father worked on the next block. 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.880 When he would pass by to go home to take 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.440 the subway to go to Brooke, where we lived, I 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:04.319 would duck down behind some mother standy so he wouldn't 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:06.959 see me. Why did you feel you had to lie 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.680 to your parents about going to the opera era? What 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.920 what was going on there? Well? It was. It was 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.600 kind of viewed as a kind of freaky thing, I think. 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:18.000 And also I think that I was supposed to be 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.720 doing things like homework, and for me, you know, this 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.240 turned out to be my homework. I was just preparing 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:24.960 to be a diva, but I didn't know it then, 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.320 you know. So there were knights they knew I was there, 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:30.120 and there were knights that they had no idea where 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:34.240 I was. M Joan is such an interesting diva because 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.480 she you know, she's Australian, and she began her career 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.160 when she when she got to cover Garden, she thought 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.560 she would be singing Bagnerian roles and that's what she 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.880 was sort of being groomed for until she met Richard Bonning, 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.720 who became her husband, and he had a different vision 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.480 for her. He thought that she could saying that bel 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.839 canto roles because she had a very big voice. And 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:02.079 then she discovered this this color a tour and this 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.679 flexibility and this agility and this and this beautiful upper 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:10.440 extension that is just insanely remarkable. I mean, you know 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.600 this better than me. What would you say about that? 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.440 But there are a couple of things. I think one 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.480 is that Richard had ears and he could tell that 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:20.679 there was a lot going on north of high Sea, 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:23.800 and he just tricked her into it. He would vocalize 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.360 her up without telling her how high they were going, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:27.880 and take her to e flat when she thought it 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:32.920 was c It was very clever. But Jones's mother studied. 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.240 She studied with the student of Matilda Marchese Case was 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:40.480 the great voice teacher in Paris for years and years 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.000 decades between the late nineteenth and early twentieth century, and 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.920 so Joan just aped her mother and she learned how 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.280 to trill that incredible trill just sitting on her mother's knee, 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.000 you know, with the piano. So her technique was in 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.440 a way the most important part of it was self taught. 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.960 And then the exploitation of it, in a very posit 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:03.840 sort of sense, was Richard Richard bringing that out and 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.880 just defying all the powers that be had called and 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:10.000 Garden saying no, she should be singing children and aida, 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.560 you know. And finally they mounted that famous Luccia for her. Again. 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:17.240 That was her breakthrough, and that Luccia like sort of 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:21.040 broke the opera universe. Can we listen to a little 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:25.000 bit of that Luccia from Sutherland's debut season at the 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:47.559 matt m How do you feel listening to that now 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.240 and thinking about I mean, certainly there's a nostalgia for you, 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.679 but then the singing is just still still exquisite. How 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.200 does it feel listening to that now and then thinking 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.480 back to, you know, sixty years ago. Well, I feel 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.680 grateful that I were taken to that performance, but I 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.439 also feel this great thing that it isn't a nostalgia 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.560 fest that it really was that good. There's so much 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:12.120 documentation of her work and other people I worshiped call 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.800 Us and you know, others that shows us that, No, 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:19.160 it really was like that. It really was that exciting, virtuosic, 0:12:19.520 --> 0:12:25.439 impressive and incredibly disciplined. Yes, for me, when I listened, 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.200 I mean, it's just so exquisite. I think the speed, 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.760 the agility, the trill is just insane. And no one 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.839 has ever trilled like that before I would, I would argue, 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:39.959 and since has trilled like Joan thrilled, especially in her heyday. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.000 It's just so virtuosic, it's so thrilling, it's so exciting. 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:44.920 I just don't know how anyone could listen to it 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:55.920 and not just lose their minds. It's an extraordinary thing. 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.360 It's something that came from then that we don't really 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.720 have now. We don't hear people trilling that way any longer. 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.840 All of our case students could do it and suddenly 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.480 really had it to the very end, even when the 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.520 voice got older and other things weren't the same, that 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:16.800 remained the same. It's extraordinary, And you know, I I 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.160 don't want to be one of those people like back 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.480 in the day when singers did well, you know whatever. 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.280 But it's so fascinating to me that one of the 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.960 things that you said, I think U mini years ago 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:30.040 in a voice lesson we had that the style has 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.760 changed because there's no the maestro's that I'm conductors who 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.200 sort of groomed Diva's back then are you know? We 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.680 don't have those great conductors anymore, so, so much of 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.480 style has been lost. What I hear is I feel 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.440 like there's a lot of a lot of over darkening 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.200 that's happening, particularly with sopranos now, and I don't feel 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.480 like there's a lot of squealo is what I hear 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.120 when I see a lot of singers. Can you explain 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.600 what over darkening and squealo short for squeelan? D mean 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:00.200 sure was squeelo is is the frontal kind of in 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:04.760 a voice a bright sound ran then who that kind 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.160 of thing? And over darkening would have been the second 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.320 thing that I did. What would be the caricature opera 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:14.480 voice for somebody who doesn't like opera, it's very hooty, 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.720 dark kind of sound. I think part of it. There's 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.320 so many facets and layers to this one I think 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.680 is language that operas were performed in the languages of 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.560 the country, and the Italian language, like the Spanish language, 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:32.240 is extremely forward in placement, and that kind of production 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.280 has gone somewhat out of fashion, and the style has 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.200 changed since the I would say since the LP, since 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:43.880 the fifties and opera recordings, luxurious opera recordings in echo chambers. 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.600 It became more about the homogenized sound and the evenness 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:49.760 of the sound that the engineers were so proud of 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.280 that didn't really carry the excitement of what the voices 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.200 were like in the opera house. But even more than that, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:01.080 Laverne composers were writing for the voice. They were writing 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.280 for the singers. And singers today because the art form 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.000 hasn't progressed very much in new works, singers today are 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.920 stuck singing stuff that was written for somebody else hundreds 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.280 of years ago and then trying to fit their work 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:19.880 into that framework. That's tricky, so I have to give 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:25.080 them credit for that extra struggle. Interesting, so much of 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.200 what I would I would argue faith propelled your career 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:33.320 as diva worship. Absolutely, these particular divas who inspired you 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:36.520 and kept you going to the opera, And you list 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:41.640 a few and after Sutherland, Leoni Wreathneck was the diva 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.240 who really captivated you. Can you talk about the first 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:49.200 time you saw rheas nick At at the Old matt Yes. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.120 First time I saw her was oddly not a Wagnerian 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.960 or Strouds world, but it was des Temula and Hotelo, 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:00.080 and there have been death threats against her by fans 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.480 of I think Tibaldi and millan Of people were very 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.680 passionate in those days. Why were their death threats, Well, 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:08.280 can you can you give us? Yes? Because she had 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:10.320 what she was going through a bit of a vocal 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:13.800 crisis time, and she had the nerve, according to these people, 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.880 to sing, take up space, singing the roles of the 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.560 divas that they appreciated and thought, well, why would you 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.040 want to give her dist eminent when we have millan 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:29.640 Of or Tibaldi, So they actually threatened her life if 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.520 she went on. And the first time I saw her, 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.280 she was so intensely exciting. There were moments that the 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:40.040 audience burst into applause just because she was so exciting, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.080 like their confrontation to it and the third act with 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.080 hotelaway he threw her to the ground and people went crazy. 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:50.360 But she made a curtain speech and she said, uh, please, 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.760 if you don't like me, don't come to see me, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.360 but please don't threaten to kill me. And that was 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.360 my first experience, and I was hooked. I mean this 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:02.960 woman and she was what we used to call on 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:07.040 the standing room line demented, which in those days simply 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:11.720 meant someone so fearlessly abandoned when they sang that they 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.000 were lost in the role. And she had this upper 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.119 register the likes of which I've simply never heard in 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.160 my life, that was both rooted to let's say, her 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:26.400 toes or really her private parts, and yet sparkled as 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.160 if it was emanating from the chandelier of the house. 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.080 At the same time suspended no idea where it came from, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:55.080 but it was a phenomenon. Oh my god, that's so fabulous. 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:56.800 It's really just what we were talking about when we're 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.080 talking about Wogner that there was. It's hard to tell 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.040 in them recording, but the always feels very big, but 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.520 it is soaring and it is that there's no weight 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.080 on it, but it's very dramatic at the same time, 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.200 it's very rare. I can't think of any singer and honestly, 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.879 who has that level of being a dramatic soprano, but 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:15.600 it's that floated and at the top of the range 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:20.720 only Nielsen. But it wasn't the same intended different pingy 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:25.199 and detached. This was somehow rooted yet suspended. It was 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.280 a real I was a mystery, and you would just 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.879 go and you would just wait. I mean everything she 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.560 did was exciting, but you would wait for those notes 0:18:33.640 --> 0:18:36.760 because no one could sing like that. And that is 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.320 something I can say I have not heard since. For me, 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.720 it feels very bell conto. I think they're different bell 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:45.840 Conto schools and they're different schools of singing. It feels 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:50.840 very connected and feels very legato, but it is did 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:55.119 it's drama and it is for Ta, but it is floating. 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.920 The voice had so much human vulnerability that she broke 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.919 your heart night after night, and that's something you know, 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:13.920 you just went back for that kind of emotional draw, 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.040 that kind of emotional pull you would leave sweating and 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:21.480 in tears. Mm hmm. Thinking about these two divas that 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:24.840 we've talked about so far, what do you feel Is 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.560 there anything specifically in a in a Sutherland or reasoning 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:29.560 that you feel like you've you know, sort of brought 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:34.399 into vera. There was with Sutherland, I mean I began 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:37.400 singing in falsetto, you know, in my parents basement when 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.320 they weren't home, to her recording the art of the 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.960 Prima Donna sixteen arias and very telling in that giant, beautiful, 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:50.760 luxurious LP set. There was a booklet, no libretto, no 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.359 text to any of the sixteen arias, but each aria 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.760 was associated with the diva. Well. That certainly warps your 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:01.119 orientation about opera in a certain direct. So for me 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.600 it was all about divas and what you could do pyrotechnically, 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.479 and so with her it was more an influence of 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:12.120 the florid singing I did, and of my diva worship, 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:17.280 and also the phenomenon of like a prize fighter with lipstick, 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:22.040 I mean, vocal athlete. Reason it inspired me just as 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.800 on stage, I never held back and I never walked 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:31.560 through performance, and I never I wish I'd paced myself more. 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:34.359 I tried, but I would always end up carried away. 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.120 And the reason it was more inspiration that way. The voice. 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.159 I would refer to the voice in certain notes and 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.879 when we had crazy, crazy fan audiences before the aids 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.119 crisis decimated that they'd recognize it in the scream, you know. 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.359 But but for me, she was more in the inspiration 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:56.760 than a direct vocal thing. Sutherland, Kaba a Scotto particularly 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:01.480 were more direct voy since I drew on to make 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.879 the amalgam that it became Madame Zra. But reason it 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:10.040 was an inspiration of an artist who gave everything to 0:21:10.160 --> 0:21:14.280 her art, everything amazing. I have to tell you that 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:17.680 I had Joan Sutherland's art of the Prima Donna that 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.639 I got from the Mobile County Public Library on cassette, 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.040 and that was my first Sutherland Nights. I've had to 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:28.280 be in middle school or something. I was absolutely obsessed. 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.359 It's time for a short break when we come back 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:57.640 more with our guest. Alrighty, then let's just dive right 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:04.639 back in m We have to get to the diva 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.600 who inspired so many people in the twentieth century and 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:13.240 you count her as one of your main inspirations, Maria Callas. 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:17.480 Can you tell us your relationship to Maria callis the 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:22.840 first time you heard her saying this is gonna be good. Well, 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.119 it's as saga because it began with a trip to 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.960 Corvette's department store. Didn't no longer exists in New York 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:35.080 City to buy Jones Lucia album for myself. I mean 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:37.199 Robert had it, but I didn't have it, and it 0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:40.399 was sold out, and I was just crestfallen and I 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:43.320 was looking through the bins of LPs and there was 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:48.320 this picture of this woman, this head on an album 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:51.760 cover with kind of magic marker I make up, and 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:55.600 the most fantastically compelling thing I've ever seen, and it 0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:59.600 said Lucia gi Lama Moore call Us and I thought, hmm, 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.280 And it was just the highlights album. I thought, I 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:04.679 didn't want to buy a complete thing because I know 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:07.760 really much about who this was. And I took it 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:10.480 home and it was the strangest voice I've ever heard 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.520 in my life. I thought, something is wrong with the turntable. 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.879 So I had my parents called the repairman. Seymour. The 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:22.879 repairman came to fix the turntable because the vibrato was 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:25.880 so slow in this voice, and I thought, there's something 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:28.639 wrong with this. And Seymour said, there's nothing wrong with 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:32.160 the turntable, there's something wrong with the soprano. So what 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:35.040 year call it was? This? Do you know? Fifty nine? 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:38.120 It was her second Luccia, And while she was recording 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:40.679 that Lucia by the way, in London, she went to 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:45.160 the dress rehearsal of Sutherland's debut Luccio and attended it. 0:23:45.680 --> 0:23:47.840 So then I would just go back to this recording 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:53.320 for certain phrases over and over and over. I couldn't 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:55.399 stop listening to it, to the point that I wore 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:58.560 it out. So then I went to the Brooklyn Public Library. 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:01.200 Like you, that was the source. Puty have no budget, 0:24:01.320 --> 0:24:05.040 that's where you went, and I found earlier Collas stuff. 0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:08.960 I put it Tany from ninety three, La Trapianta from 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:13.439 fifty three, and I thought, holy crap, this voice is 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:18.080 something bizarre. It's no more beautiful than the other one, 0:24:18.119 --> 0:24:24.560 maybe even less, but rock solid, virtuosic, heart stopping, lee exciting. 0:24:24.960 --> 0:24:27.880 So I just started to take any allowance money I had, 0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.600 any money I could find, arn beg any gift and 0:24:31.760 --> 0:24:36.119 bought Collis recordings one after another. And that's all I 0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:40.040 spent my money on through high school was Collis recordings, 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:43.959 and I was completely addicted. And then I was at 0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:47.280 summer camp and there was a little feature in the 0:24:47.320 --> 0:24:49.720 Times that said Maria Collis was coming back to the 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:54.440 med where she'd been fired seven years earlier. And so 0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:58.000 my friend Lex, who was my upper friend at summer camp, 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:02.520 he phoned me in Brooklyn and he said, get into Manhattan. 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:04.720 I've got a number for you on the Collis Line. 0:25:05.280 --> 0:25:10.960 And it was Friday, six days before the performance, and 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:15.040 I said why what? He said, Yeah, they're selling on Sunday. 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:18.800 I got on the line and I stood in the 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:21.679 street for three days. I slept in the street for 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:25.720 two nights, and on Sunday they sold standing room tickets 0:25:25.760 --> 0:25:30.639 for the first performance. The second performance, I totally lucked out. 0:25:31.080 --> 0:25:35.560 My mother belonged to some Jewish lady organization and somebody 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:40.040 there didn't want to go to the Collis Tusca on 0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:44.119 their subscription because he didn't liked that lady. So this 0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:48.640 lady sold my mother hard two tickets. So I got 0:25:48.680 --> 0:25:51.520 to see both Collis Tuscas at the Met and thows 0:25:51.560 --> 0:25:54.760 were her last performances at the Met, and six months 0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:58.639 later she retired from opera. So I was really lucky. 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:02.440 And all I tell you about that night was that 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:05.720 watching Carlos san Tito Golby in the second act of 0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:10.680 Tosca was like looking through a keyhole at real events 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:15.439 that were later made into an opera. It was that vivid. 0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:19.680 She was known as as as a great actress. Now 0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:22.840 you you spoke of rhisnic with this abandoned You know, 0:26:22.920 --> 0:26:25.920