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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, We're going on tour. We're going to be

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Speaker 1: in Denver, Seattle, and San Francisco soon and tickets are

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Speaker 1: still available.

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Speaker 2: That's right, in the next few days. Actually, we're gonna

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Speaker 2: be in Denver on Tuesday, the twenty seventh of January.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna be in Seattle the next night, our dear

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Speaker 2: beloved Seattle, and.

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Speaker 3: Then finally winding it up on Thursday the twenty ninth.

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Speaker 2: And San Francisco is part of our sketch best appearance

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Speaker 2: And you can get all the ticket into our information

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Speaker 2: at stuff youshould know dot com.

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Speaker 3: Isn't that right?

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Speaker 1: It is right, And we love you Denver, and we

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Speaker 1: love you San Francisco too.

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Speaker 3: That's right. We love all you cities and we missed

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Speaker 3: you and we can't wait to be back.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to stuff you should know, our production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry's here too, so this is a good

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Speaker 1: old fashioned stuff you should know. One of our ongoing

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Speaker 1: hip hop editions. Yeah, I feel like a door anytime

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Speaker 1: I say hip hop, so I usually say rap. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but regardless, that's what we're talking.

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Speaker 2: About Yeah, we're talking about Biggie and Tupac, and we

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Speaker 2: want to issue a.

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Speaker 3: Warning and a trigger warning.

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Speaker 2: No pun intended there, but this one's obviously gonna because

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Speaker 2: we're talking about the lives of these two guys who

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Speaker 2: were in many ways real gangsters. A lot of stuff

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Speaker 2: went down, including sexual assault and gunplay and murder, and

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Speaker 2: it's you know, it's probably not appropriate for the younger listeners,

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Speaker 2: and so you just wanted to get that out there. Hopefully,

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Speaker 2: if you know anything about Biggie and Tupac, you know

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Speaker 2: that there's some more adult content coming your way.

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Speaker 1: Nice CoA man. Yeah, so, yeah, we are talking about

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Speaker 1: Biggie and Tupac, and they are pretty well known. If

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Speaker 1: you listen to either one of them, or even kind

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Speaker 1: of have a passing awareness of hip hop, especially in

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Speaker 1: the nineties, you probably know that Biggie and Tupac had

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Speaker 1: probably the biggest rivalry in the hip hop world. It's

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Speaker 1: referred to as a beef between one another, so much

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Speaker 1: so that it actually triggered, or caused, at the very

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Speaker 1: least popularized the East Coast versus West Coast thing of

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Speaker 1: rap in the nineteen nineties. That was huge. It was

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Speaker 1: the central focus of rap during basically that whole decade.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and sadly would leave both of them dead from violence.

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Speaker 2: It was I hope that's not a spoiler for anyone,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, at very young ages. It's super sad what

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Speaker 2: happened to those guys, and just super sad that that was,

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Speaker 2: you know, brought about because of just sort of the

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Speaker 2: lifestyle that went along with their careers, you know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of people make a case that

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Speaker 1: that lifestyle was essentially demanded by fans and the media

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Speaker 1: and certainly fostered and nurtured by fans in the media.

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Speaker 1: And so I think both Biggie and Tupac and all

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Speaker 1: the people around them and other rappers basically felt like

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Speaker 1: they had to act like they the stuff that they

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Speaker 1: wrapped about, or else they would be fake baby gangsters

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Speaker 1: sometimes or studio gangsters even worse. Well yeah, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: then they were also surrounded by literal bloods and crips,

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Speaker 1: so it essentially had it was inevitable that it would

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Speaker 1: end in death and violence.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think hip hop more than other types

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Speaker 2: of music too, there's an expectation to be.

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Speaker 3: To be real again, got all these funs flying out of.

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Speaker 1: My mouth, oh from Cypress Hill.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course.

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Speaker 2: But to be real and like you said, not you know,

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Speaker 2: if you were found out to be sort of rapping

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Speaker 2: about something and really kind of fake in real life

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Speaker 2: like that, that's no good for your career as a

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Speaker 2: hip hop artist. So it's sort of you know, they

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Speaker 2: I don't know, to me, they're sort of victims of

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Speaker 2: that whole thing in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but at the same time, they definitely bought into it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, they essentially laid the groundwork for that. It's

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Speaker 1: just it's crazy because it's just such a ubiquitous, widespread

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Speaker 1: thing for so long. It's strange to think that you

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Speaker 1: can trace it back to one group, one duo essentially.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're going to tell you a little bit

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Speaker 2: about Tupac and his beginnings, a little bit about Biggie

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Speaker 2: and then once they met up kind of what happened

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Speaker 2: from there. But as far as Tupac goes, he was

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Speaker 2: born in nineteen seventy one, same year as me. He

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Speaker 2: was born in Harlem. His mother was a Finny Shakur

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Speaker 2: and she was one of the Panther twenty one. I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty sure we talked about them in the Black Panther episode,

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Speaker 2: but they were part of the Black Panther Party, the

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Speaker 2: ones who were accused of carrying out a bombing campaign.

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Speaker 2: She did win an acquittal in court defending herself and

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Speaker 2: exposed a lot of stuff about undercover cops and the

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Speaker 2: tactics they used that were very untoward. But Tupac was

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Speaker 2: born about a month after that trial and born Lesaine Crooks.

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Speaker 2: But it's not like he changed his name to be

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Speaker 2: a cool hip hop guy later. He was actually renamed

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Speaker 2: by his mom when he was about a year old,

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Speaker 2: after indigenous South American revolutionary Tupac Amaru the second, So

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Speaker 2: he's essentially he was always Tupac.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he was named after an eighteenth century Incon I believe,

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Speaker 1: who led a rebellion against the Spanish. Little known fact.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that, did you. I did not, So

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Speaker 1: I usually think I associate Tupac with New York because

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Speaker 1: pretty much all the movies he was ever in were

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Speaker 1: all set in New York. But he's from San Francisco.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was born in Harlem, but his family

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Speaker 1: moved to San Francisco, or actually Marin County, which is

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Speaker 1: a suburb of San Francisco pretty early on in his life,

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Speaker 1: and at the time, his mom was struggling with a

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Speaker 1: crack addiction, So Tupac was essentially on his own from

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Speaker 1: a very young age, and as black kids at the

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Speaker 1: time in the eighties in particular, did to make money

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Speaker 1: when you were in a situation like that, he sold

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Speaker 1: drugs and that's how he supported himself for a long

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Speaker 1: time while he was even going through school too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he was like, we'll see, Biggie was he

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Speaker 2: was a really good English student, and I bet a

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Speaker 2: lot of hip hop performers were good in English. You know,

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Speaker 2: it just sort of makes sense. But he dropped out

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Speaker 2: of high school. He studied poetry. He continued to after

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Speaker 2: he dropped out, and actually his teacher, his English teacher,

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Speaker 2: one of them, Leela Steinberg, was like, hey, I see

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Speaker 2: a lot of potential in you. You can crash on

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Speaker 2: my couch when you need to, And she ended up

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Speaker 2: becoming his first manager.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and she said, you always have to wear that

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Speaker 1: bandana around your head just so like you because I

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 3: It looks super cool.

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Speaker 1: I know we've also talked about this before, but he

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Speaker 1: was a member of Digital Underground with Humpty Hump of

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Speaker 1: the famous Humpty Dance. He's shown dancing in the Humpty

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Speaker 1: Dance video in the background. He was a dancer for

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Speaker 1: Digital Underground, but later I think wrapped on some of

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Speaker 1: their albums. Yeah, but even from the outset, his whole

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Speaker 1: vibe was much much edgier than Humpty Humps was. Like

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Speaker 1: Humpty Hump was rapping about how big his nose was

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Speaker 1: and having sex and burger king bathrooms, right like Tupac

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Speaker 1: was rapping about what poverty and crime are like in

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Speaker 1: the black community.

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Speaker 3: You know, he didn't go by Humpty Hump.

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Speaker 1: What was this? Why do You Go Buy?

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Speaker 3: That was shock G.

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Speaker 1: I've heard him referred to on other songs as.

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Speaker 2: Well, all right, aka Humpty Hump. So yeah, you weren't

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Speaker 2: completely wrong.

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Speaker 1: A little side. I would direct people to the mrs

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Speaker 1: song Risky Business that features Humpty or shock G. It's

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Speaker 1: a pretty pretty cute little song, all right. So Tupac

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Speaker 1: goes out on his own. He's got, like I said,

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Speaker 1: a totally different vibe, and he released a solo album

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Speaker 1: called Tupac Ellipse. Now, there was no other title that

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Speaker 1: it could have possibly been than that, Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: But the problem was like there was. He was keeping

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Speaker 1: it real, so there was nothing in the studio that

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Speaker 1: he was producing that could be played on the radio. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it was an underground sensation, but publicly, most people

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Speaker 1: had not heard of Tupac at that point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: Dan Quayle kind of gave him a little more press

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Speaker 2: when he blamed that record to Apocalypse Now on the

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Speaker 2: shooting of a Texas State trooper. So he was in

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Speaker 2: the news a little bit at least mm hm. And

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Speaker 2: he started acting kind of right afterward. In nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: two and nineteen ninety three, he put out where he

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Speaker 2: was in the movies Juice and Poetic Justice, both really

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Speaker 2: great movies. Juice is awesome, actually, so is Poetic Justice.

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Speaker 2: I love both of those movies.

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Speaker 1: The one I've seen him and I don't think. I

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Speaker 1: think I saw Juice. I didn't see Poetic Justice. I

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Speaker 1: saw Above the Rim. He was really good, and Above

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Speaker 1: the Rim.

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Speaker 3: I never saw that one.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a good one. He should see it.

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Speaker 3: Wet them together and have a Tupac watch party.

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Speaker 1: I guess, Okay, let's do that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But he started getting a little more famous, sort of slowly,

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Speaker 2: and this is when kind of the early nineties, at

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Speaker 2: the very beginning of his career is when he first

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Speaker 2: started getting into trouble and getting like a real reputation

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Speaker 2: as sort of living that lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like for real. He was involved in

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Speaker 1: a shootout at the Marin County Festival where he lived,

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Speaker 1: where he had just performed, that killed a six year

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Speaker 1: old who was playing on a school ground nearby.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He shot at off duty police in Atlanta in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety three when he tried to prevent them from beating

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Speaker 1: up a black motorist, and those charges were thrown out

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Speaker 1: because it turns out the cops were off duty, didn't

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Speaker 1: announce themselves as cops, and were super drunk. But you know,

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Speaker 1: those kind of things, like his legend as like a

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Speaker 1: thug living the thug life, which I think he basically coined,

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Speaker 1: that just formed, melded really quickly right out of the gate,

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Speaker 1: Like this guy was legit as far as his fans

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Speaker 1: were concerned.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. So that's Tupac's early days.

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Speaker 2: Biggie Smalls was born he's a little younger. He's born

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy two in Brooklyn. His name was Christopher Wallace.

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Speaker 2: He was born to Jamaican immigrant parents, and his mom

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Speaker 2: was a preschool teacher. His dad was a politician in

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Speaker 2: Jamaica but ended up, you know, leaving when he was

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Speaker 2: two years old and became a welder in the United States.

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Speaker 2: But her, his mom, you know, Veletta, really thought a

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Speaker 2: lot about education, obviously as a teacher, so she took

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Speaker 2: on a second job just so she could send him

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Speaker 2: to a very well regarded high school and then later

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Speaker 2: went to George Westinghouse Career in Tech Education High School,

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Speaker 2: which had quite an alumni base as far as hip

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Speaker 2: hop goes, because DMX, Buster Rhymes, Love Busta, and jay

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Speaker 2: Z all went there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm guessing I didn't. I wasn't able to find it,

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Speaker 1: but I'm guessing they crossed paths. May have been there

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Speaker 1: at the same time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, Donald Glover would have gone to my

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Speaker 2: high school had they not sent him to the School

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Speaker 2: of the Arts. Oh yeah, And I saw him in

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Speaker 2: New York City a few feet from me when I

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Speaker 2: was there in December. And let me tell you, dude,

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Speaker 2: I don't know if I've ever seen a more handsome

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Speaker 2: grown man in person.

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Speaker 3: With my eyeballs.

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Speaker 2: Really, he's astoundingly good looking, and I wanted to go

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Speaker 2: over and say, like, hey man, we grew up in

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Speaker 2: the same neighborhood basically.

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Speaker 1: And you're really good looking, You're really handsome.

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Speaker 2: But he I'm such a big fan of his but

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Speaker 2: from his music to his acting. But he was with

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Speaker 2: his family and like it was just like, I'm just

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Speaker 2: not going to do that.

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Speaker 1: Instead, you got in your car and shouted Dan high

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Speaker 1: rules and like laid rubber peeling out of the parking lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah that's right. Sure, Danger Mouse went to my high

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Speaker 3: school too, though.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh I forgot about Danger Mouse. Danger Mouse

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Speaker 1: did that gray album with the Beatles, and.

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Speaker 3: Right, I don't know, we'll.

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Speaker 1: Find out the hard way. So, like you said, a

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Speaker 1: lot of hip hop artists are probably or probably were

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Speaker 1: our good English students, and Biggie Smalls was not an

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Speaker 1: exception to that. Like Tupac, he was. Actually he excelled

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Speaker 1: in English and high school. But also like Tupac, his

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Speaker 1: family was not exactly well to do. Remember, his mom

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Speaker 1: took a second job to put him just through high school.

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Speaker 1: So he started selling drugs on the side, crack again

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Speaker 1: because it's the eighties, and eventually he dropped out of

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Speaker 1: high school, and I think any kind of straight and

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Speaker 1: narrow he might have been on from high school was

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Speaker 1: just kind of removed and he started to get in

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Speaker 1: like actual trouble with the cops.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he ended up in jail, actually spent nine months

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Speaker 2: in jail at one point because it couldn't make bail.

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Speaker 2: And once he got out, he made a demo tape

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Speaker 2: under the name Biggie Smalls. His nickname as a kid

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Speaker 2: was big, but I think that came from a gangster

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Speaker 2: in a movie from nineteen seventy five called Let's Do

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Speaker 2: It Again. Biggie Smalls did, and he said that he

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Speaker 2: wasn't trying to get into a career, he just sort

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Speaker 2: of did it for fun, and that got him on

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Speaker 2: Source magazine's list in nineteen ninety two of Unsigned in

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Speaker 2: their Unsigned hype Columneah, which eventually put him on a

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Speaker 2: compilation with other Unsigned rappers, which eventually landed him on

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Speaker 2: the ears of a twenty.

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Speaker 3: Three year old named named Sean Combs.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, Shawn Combs, puff Daddy did he People have

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Speaker 1: probably heard of him by now for all sorts of reasons.

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Speaker 1: His career as a twenty three year old was as

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Speaker 1: vice president of Uptown Records, and being an entrepreneur and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of other things, he decided to found his

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Speaker 1: own record company, bad Boy Worldwide Music Group usually known

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Speaker 1: as bad Boy Records, and one of the first things

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Speaker 1: he did was sign Biggie Small's and they became paired

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Speaker 1: up in the media. They hung out there, friends, They

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Speaker 1: were fairly close, but like those two were inseparable as

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Speaker 1: far as like the public was concerned whether that was

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Speaker 1: fully true or not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah and his when he put out his first single,

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Speaker 2: it was under the name Notorious Big because of legal issues.

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Speaker 3: I guess with the movie Yeah Biggie Smalls was that

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Speaker 3: my take you? Okay? So he was Notorious Big Ig

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Speaker 3: officially everyone called him Biggie. Of course.

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Speaker 2: He had as a kid in ninety three with his

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Speaker 2: high school girlfriend jan Jackson, not Jana Jackson, and he

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Speaker 2: hadn't really broken through at this point, even though he

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Speaker 2: was with Shawn Combs at the time. But he you know,

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Speaker 2: so he continued to kind of deal drugs, apparently colms.

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Speaker 2: It was like, he can't do that kind of stuff

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Speaker 2: if you want to get anywhere.

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Speaker 3: But he broke up with his.

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Speaker 2: High school sweetheart who he had his first kid with

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Speaker 2: and a few months after that ended up with Faith Evans.

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Speaker 3: Who was also on the Bad Boy label.

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Speaker 2: And that is is Biggie and his start, So good

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Speaker 2: time for a break.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're at nineteen ninety three, Tupac's already a star

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Speaker 1: and Biggie's starting to come up.

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Speaker 3: All right, We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: As why why Why s K as big.

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Speaker 4: Tough. He should know, definitely should know, Charles s K. So.

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Speaker 1: One of the things you may or may not know,

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Speaker 1: if you're just kind of passing passingly familiar with the

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Speaker 1: beef between Biggie and Tupac, is that they started out

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Speaker 1: as friends. They were actually pretty good friends for a while. Tupac,

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Speaker 1: like I said, before he broke, was already a star.

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Speaker 1: His star was established and still growing. Biggie was just

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Speaker 1: starting to come up. He was pretty pretty well known

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Speaker 1: around New York, and Tupac kind of became a mentor

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Speaker 1: to him. They met in nineteen ninety three, and they

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Speaker 1: hung out with a bunch of other people, played around

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of guns at Tupac's house, and they

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Speaker 1: became close enough that whenever Biggie went out to la

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Speaker 1: he stayed on Tupac's couch.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Uh, he was, like I said, he was a He

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Speaker 2: kind of considered Biggie like one of his lieutenants at

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Speaker 2: the time and definitely was a mentor. Biggie's debut came out,

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Speaker 2: it was called Ready to Die in nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 2: and before that, Biggie was like, you know what, I

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Speaker 2: think you should just be my manager and take over

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Speaker 2: from takeover for Shawn Combs, and Tupac was like, no, man,

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Speaker 2: you need to stick with that guy. Apparently Tupac wasn't

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Speaker 2: a big fan of Combs. Yeah, but you know he

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Speaker 2: said that I had a feeling he just didn't want

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Speaker 2: to get into managing him.

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Speaker 1: Well, he said, he'll make you a star, and I

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Speaker 1: think he did know that. Like, you know, Tupac wasn't

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Speaker 1: a manager or a label owner. Like he was a

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Speaker 1: performer and Sean Combs liked the thing think of himself

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Speaker 1: as a performer, but really he was an executive. So

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Speaker 1: it probably was the smarter move to stay with him,

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Speaker 1: at least at first, right. Yeah, the problem was is

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Speaker 1: Seawn Combs again remember inextricably linked BFF with Biggie as

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Speaker 1: far as the public's concerned, was actually jealous of Biggie

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Speaker 1: and Tupac's friendship. He wanted to be friends with Tupac.

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Speaker 1: He was jealous that Bickie got to be friends with Tupac.

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Speaker 1: The reason Tupac didn't care about being friends with Sean

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Speaker 1: Combs is that he thought Shawn Combs was basically a poser.

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Speaker 1: He was a record executive, playing like he was a

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Speaker 1: hardcore rapper, and he didn't have much respect for him.

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Speaker 1: And I think that really kind of came through to

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Speaker 1: Shawn Combs after a little while, and he didn't he

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Speaker 1: started not liking Tupac.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: So the beef is sort of the beef seed is

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Speaker 2: planted as they are, you know that old saying.

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Speaker 1: Where's the beef seed?

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Speaker 2: It's been exactly red to die. Like I mentioned, was

349
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,120
Speaker 2: Biggie's debut in ninety four. It was a big hit

350
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Speaker 2: that went double platinum about a year later, which means

351
00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:11,080
Speaker 2: a lot of records were sold. And this was when

352
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 2: the West Coast was sort of like all the big

353
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Speaker 2: hip hop stars were mainly out of the West Coast,

354
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Speaker 2: so he was kind of the biggest thing coming out

355
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Speaker 2: of New York right off the bat. And it's a

356
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,399
Speaker 2: great record, he was you know, he rapped a lot

357
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Speaker 2: about you know, sort of like the lifestyle and the

358
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,439
Speaker 2: gangs of stuff that he was doing. But also there

359
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,600
Speaker 2: was a lot of vulnerability on that first record too.

360
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he and Tupac wasn't shy about rapping about

361
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Speaker 1: mental health and stuff like that. And up to this point,

362
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Speaker 1: like you did not talk about that kind of stuff.

363
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 1: It was all about partying and having sex and like

364
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Speaker 1: doing drugs and all that stuff. You didn't talk about

365
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Speaker 1: being paranoid or like super worried about being killed or

366
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Speaker 1: anything like that. And I just to kind of set

367
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Speaker 1: the scene, can we talk a little bit about the

368
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Speaker 1: brief history of hip hop up to that point and

369
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Speaker 1: how big of a deal it was when Ready to

370
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Speaker 1: Die came out, Sure, because you said that the West

371
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Speaker 1: Coast had kind of taken over from the East Coast,

372
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Speaker 1: like from Slick Rick and ll cool J and all

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Speaker 1: them the ones who were coming up in the eighties.

374
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Speaker 1: At the time that Biggie Small's record came out, everyone

375
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Speaker 1: was all about Doctor dre Ice Cube, Snoop Dogg, all

376
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Speaker 1: these guys, like that's where rap was. It was on

377
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Speaker 1: the West Coast. So for somebody to come along and

378
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Speaker 1: basically snatch that away and bring it back to New York.

379
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 1: It was just a really big deal. And it took

380
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Speaker 1: a rapper of the caliber of Biggie Smalls to do

381
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,359
Speaker 1: something like that, because there are tons of other albums

382
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 1: that had come out, like Tribe Called Quest had three

383
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: albums by this time, and yet the Biggie Small's record

384
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Speaker 1: coming out just completely undid essentially caused an earthquake in

385
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Speaker 1: the rap world and tilted everything back to New York.

386
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Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

387
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Speaker 2: So as this is happening and Biggie's blowing up like

388
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,480
Speaker 2: in a big way, Tupac is in New York filming

389
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 2: a movie in nineteen ninety three and we get a

390
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 2: new guy on the scene, or he was actually on

391
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:11,919
Speaker 2: the scene, but a new guy as far as his

392
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: podcast goes named Haitian Jack, and he starts hanging out

393
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Speaker 2: with Tupac.

394
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 3: Tupac likes this guy. They start partying together.

395
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Speaker 2: Biggie knows about Haitian Jack because he was pretty familiar

396
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Speaker 2: with the street gangs of New York, and he warns

397
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 2: his friend Tupac and he's like, man, this guy is

398
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 2: real trouble. So like you got to watch out. You

399
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: should probably stay away from this guy because like he's

400
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 2: a super violent dude. Like, I know, we're all real,

401
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 2: but this guy is. He will land you in jail

402
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 2: probably at some point, So stay away or get you killed.

403
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, so things are going along. Biggie and Tupac are friends.

404
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 1: One's in New York, one's on the West Coast. It

405
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:54,199
Speaker 1: turned out Biggie was pretty right in warning Tupac against

406
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 1: Haitian Jack, because shortly after that, Tupac met a girl

407
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Speaker 1: named Ayana Jack. She was nineteen at the time, while

408
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: he was in New York filming hanging out with Haitian Jack,

409
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Speaker 1: and she alleged that Tupac Haitian Jack, the road manager

410
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: for Tupac, Charles man Man Fuller, and another man I

411
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 1: couldn't find who he was, gang raped her and she

412
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 1: called the police. Afterward, the police showed up, they found

413
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: guns in the room, and now Tupac is in big,

414
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,880
Speaker 1: big trouble again. Right, So two threads begin here. One

415
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: is Tupac is now charged with sexual abus, sodomy and

416
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: possession of guns illegal guns. Yeah, that starts. That thread starts,

417
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: so we'll pick up again later. But another thread starts,

418
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 1: which is a dispute a beef now with Haitian Jack

419
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 1: because he thought that Haitian Jack had dropped the dime

420
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: on Tupac to get out of the trouble for this

421
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: gang rape charge.

422
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Haitian Jack had his case separated from man

423
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 2: Man Fuller and Tupac. He pleaded down to a lesser charge.

424
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: He pleaded guilty to misdemeanors and avoided jail time. Tupac

425
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 2: always said he was innocent and that he was set

426
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 2: up and sold out by Haitian Jack. But that, you know,

427
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 2: we need to point out that completely contradicts the story

428
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 2: of the victim from Ayana Jackson. So but you know,

429
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 2: the whole point of this is there's, like you said,

430
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 2: there's now this official beef that kind of again planted

431
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 2: the seed of what would happen to he and eventually

432
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,199
Speaker 2: Biggie moving forward.

433
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the thing that really kind of blew this

434
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,199
Speaker 1: this whole thing up is Tupac said as much. He said,

435
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 1: Haitian Jack cooperated with the police, This major actual gangster

436
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: in New York cooperated with the police. In an interview

437
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: with the New York Daily News, So the New York

438
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: Daily News prints Tupac saying that, and that did not

439
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 1: make Haitian Jack very happy. Those two separated immediately. They

440
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: didn't talk anymore. They weren't friends anymore, they didn't hang out,

441
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: and no, Tupac had essentially an enemy in Haitian Jack,

442
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,720
Speaker 1: which is from what I can tell, not what you

443
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: want it.

444
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 3: No, not at all. So the case is moving forward.

445
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 2: At this point, Tupac is financially strapped because while he

446
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 2: is making money, he's spending it faster than he's making it.

447
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: He's also helping out friends and family with their finances.

448
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 2: So there was an invitation from a guy named Jimmy

449
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 2: Henchman Roseman. He knew Shawn Combs, he knew Haitian Jack,

450
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 2: and he said, Hey, Tupac, why don't you do a

451
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 2: guest spot for this rapper, Little Sean. He's in Biggie Circle.

452
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: He's a guy with Shawn Combs as well. We'll pay

453
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: seven grand. He needed the money, so he did it.

454
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 2: He shows up at Times Square at Quad Recording Studios

455
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 2: on November thirtieth along with three of his guys, and

456
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 2: before getting on the elevator to go up and record,

457
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 2: they were met by these other three guys who draw

458
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 2: guns tell him to get down on the ground. Tupac

459
00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 2: draws his gun and he ends up being shot, ends

460
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 2: up being robbed, He ends up being beaten pretty badly.

461
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 2: And Combs and Biggie and Henchman Jimmy Henchman Roseman were

462
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 2: up in the studio at the time. They were there,

463
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, Tupac is getting wheeled out

464
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 2: on a gurney sees those guys and he flips a

465
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 2: bird at Biggie and his crew because he thought they

466
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 2: were in on this attack. And that's when the beef

467
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 2: like really started between these two.

468
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Biggie was like, I have no idea what

469
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: he's talking about. And Tupac just decided that if Biggie

470
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: Smalls hadn't set him up, he had at least turned

471
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: his head and let all of this happen, like he

472
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: knew that it was going to happen. He didn't warn him.

473
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: There's no evidence whatsoever either one of those things happened. Yeah,

474
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: And Biggie Small's always is like, no, I like this

475
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. After Tupac died, he

476
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: was obviously heartbroken and spoke in public about how sad

477
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: he was that Tupac was dead. It seems like it was.

478
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 1: He's a one sided beef, but the beef on Tupac's

479
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: side was so energetic that you couldn't just ignore it.

480
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: There was just a divide, and the divide was so

481
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: great that Blood's hung out with one side, I think

482
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: Tupac side, and Crips hung out with Biggie's side. Yeah,

483
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: and you have that kind of thing, like there's very

484
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: little chance of like reconciling or accidentally hanging out because

485
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: you ran into each other on the street and you

486
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: kind of crush things up. That is not going to

487
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: happen with you now hanging around with the Crips and

488
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:33,119
Speaker 1: the Bloods.

489
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and no one ever really got to the bottom

490
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 2: of who was behind that shooting. There's a lot of

491
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 2: disagreement and people pointing fingers and claiming.

492
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 3: This and that.

493
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 2: I guess we don't need to totally get into that.

494
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: But after he was beaten and shot and robbed, he's

495
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 2: bandaged up, he's in a wheelchair. He's still got this

496
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 2: court case going on, and he has found guilty of

497
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 2: sexual assault, he's acquitted on the other charges, and he

498
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: sent its to eighteen months in prison and where his

499
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: third album came out, Me Against the World, came out

500
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 2: while he was in prison serving that sentence.

501
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Dude, if you want cred, release your rap album while

502
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: you're in prison.

503
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, called Me against the World.

504
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly.

505
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

506
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 1: So, while Tupac was in jail, I don't remember how

507
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: long he was in for it, eighteen eighteen months, Okay.

508
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: While he was in jail, Biggie releases a track called

509
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: who Shatcha, and Tupac interprets that as it was completely

510
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 1: directed to him. It was essentially Biggie Small's gloating about

511
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: having set up Tupac, and now Tupac was in jail

512
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: and he'd been shot, and that seems to not be

513
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: the case at all. Biggie Smalls apparently wrote that song

514
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: before the Quad City shooting. And again, just from all evidence,

515
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: it seems like Biggie had no problem with Tupac. This

516
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: is all in Tupac's head. Like this whole East Coast

517
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: West West Coast beef seems to have come from Tupac

518
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: being paranoid, essentially, And I looked up why he might

519
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: have been paranoid, and apparently there's pretty widespread acknowledgment or

520
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: belief that he was suffering from substantial mental health issues

521
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: while he was alive, and that that had a huge

522
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: impact on the way that he interacted with people, the

523
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: level of trust he would afford, even the closest people,

524
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:28,640
Speaker 1: Like I think it was very easy to fall out

525
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: of his favor because you might do or say something

526
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: that he suddenly found suspicious and now all of a sudden,

527
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: like you were his enemy, like you would do something

528
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: like set him up or rob him or pay for

529
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 1: him to be killed or something.

530
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wondered about that. I'm glad you looked into that.

531
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: Thank you, I am too.

532
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 3: You're welcome. Maybe we should take another break.

533
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we'll take another break and we'll we'll

534
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: get back to it right after this.

535
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: As why why.

536
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,120
Speaker 4: SK as good.

537
00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 2: Tough?

538
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 4: He should know?

539
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: Definitely large house of h.

540
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 4: Y s K.

541
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: All right, So, uh, I don't need to go over

542
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: what we've been talking about because everyone's listening. So at

543
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: this point, the record labels that were handling this kind

544
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 2: of music, it wasn't like the major label stuff at

545
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 2: this time, like that would happen in the future, but

546
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: it was.

547
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 3: It was basically hip hop labels.

548
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: You had bad Boy with Shawn Comb's death Row Records

549
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: on the other side, that company was founded about the

550
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: same time in nineteen ninety two by Doctor Dre and

551
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: a few other guys, and one of those guys was

552
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 2: his former bodyguard, Marion sug Knight.

553
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: Spelled s u g e h.

554
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: He was the CEO of death Row Records and he

555
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: was a blood like he was you know, he was

556
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: just a straight up blood for from South central Los Angeles.

557
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's now the CEO of death Row Records, right,

558
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: so that automatically makes death Row Records like another It's

559
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: a legit music label as far as like the stuff

560
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 1: that the artists on the label are rapping about. The

561
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: CEO of the record label is a blood, not a

562
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: form of blood, a blood.

563
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

564
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: So we talked about how the Quad Studio shooting like

565
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: really kind of started the beef. The thing that made

566
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: that beef really genuinely public came at the award show

567
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: for Source Magazine their annual awards this time this one

568
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: was in nineteen ninety five, where sug Knight, who'd been

569
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: visiting Tupac and Jail and apparently had bought into Tupac's

570
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: theory that Seawn Combs and Biggie Smalls had set him

571
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: up to be shot and robbed. Suge Knight was accepting

572
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: an award and during his speech he invited any rapper

573
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: who didn't want to worry about the executive producer trying

574
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: to be in all the videos, which was a direct

575
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: shot at Shawn Comb's. He said, come on over to

576
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: death Row Records. And I mean, if you go back

577
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: and look at like Biggie Small's videos and like basically

578
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: any rapper on this label at the time, oh yeah,

579
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: Shawn Combs is probably going to pop up making a cameo,

580
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: if not dance on it, usually with his shirt wide open.

581
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: He really was not. He was not what they, like

582
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: death Row Records was doing. And so, like Suge Knight

583
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: made it a pretty good point, like if you were

584
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: really actually looking for legit stuff, come over here. But

585
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 1: saying it publicly and doing it by taking a shot

586
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: at Sewan Comb's at the Source Awards while you're accepting

587
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: an award. It was a big deal. That really kind

588
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: of made that beef public and it turned into East

589
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: Coast versus West Coast essentially immediately.

590
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember at the time thinking because

591
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 2: I remember just and it wasn't just rappers like they

592
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 2: had like some R and B acts And I feel like,

593
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: I feel like Combs was always in those videos just

594
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 2: like like you said, either dancing or just like yeah

595
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 2: yeah in the background.

596
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

597
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: And I remember thinking about the time at the time,

598
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 2: and this wasn't like my hip hop was all like

599
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: earlier stuff and tribe call quests and that kind of thing,

600
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: and you know, Doctor Dray and Snoop. I was into

601
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: that at first, but this generally wasn't my thing. But

602
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, like, this guy's like he sucks, like

603
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: he's not he's not a talented artist, no, because he wasn't.

604
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 3: I guess you know.

605
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 2: He was a like you said, an executive and a producer,

606
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: and I was I remember thinking, they're like, why is

607
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: he always throwing himself in there in front of the camera,

608
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:42,520
Speaker 2: like he sucks?

609
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he was dorky even compared to who were

610
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: essentially mainstream rap artists like Tupac and Biggie Smalls. Oh yeah, no,

611
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: shade on them, but there were way more underground rappers

612
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: at the time putting out really good stuff. Tribe called

613
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: Quest is a really good example of that that when

614
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: you compared them to them, he became even more cringey.

615
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, yeah, for sure he was.

616
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: It was and he definitely like kind of brought down

617
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: the credibility of the label and all the artists on

618
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: it for sure. Like Biggie Smalls was exponentially too good

619
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: for Sean Combs. Seawan Combs just kind of had him

620
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: under his thumb.

621
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, which is sad.

622
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: Because I mean, Biggie Smalls is. Biggie Smalls and Tupac

623
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: usually kind of battle for first or second place on

624
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: most lists of the greatest rapper of all time. My

625
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: money's on Biggie Smalls.

626
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 3: What about you as the greatest rapper of all time?

627
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's between Tupac and Biggie how about that?

628
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 3: Oh okay?

629
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: Because Chuck d like dead in the bullseye for me,

630
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I was always a public enemy

631
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 2: guy like that started in high school.

632
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: I like them too, but I don't know, I think

633
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: I don't like the I don't like the instrumental track

634
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: to a lot of their stuff. It's too hard edgy

635
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: for me.

636
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked it, I mean, trust me, I was

637
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: way more into like, uh, the tribe called Quest and

638
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: Far Side and Jungle Brothers and like that kind of style.

639
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 2: Uh so public Enemy me being into Public Enemy in

640
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 2: high school is definitely kind of a weird thing.

641
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, But as I was listening to the Smiths and

642
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: The Cure, It's.

643
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: Right, no, I'm with you. I was listening to Smith's

644
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: and The Cure, but also like boot Camp Click, like

645
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: Smith and Wesson, Nah's Wu Tang Gangs.

646
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I see. I never I like Gangstar, but I

647
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: never got into Wu Tang.

648
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,040
Speaker 1: They were pretty good. They were they were better solo.

649
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: I think most of like method Man and Rizza were

650
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: better solo than Wu Tang together.

651
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 3: But whatever, and this is two middle aged white guys

652
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 3: that's their hip hop pass.

653
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: I do have to say that Doctor Dre's The Chronic

654
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: was literally life changing, oh for sure. And it's not

655
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: just me that that happened to. I think that changed

656
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people's trajection.

657
00:33:58,600 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: I was one of them.

658
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: Man, that thing by heart and inside and out. It's

659
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: a fun listen when I put it on a lot

660
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: of nostalgia, Let's back it is.

661
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: I thought the same thing would be for Doggie Style

662
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: Snoop's debut solo album, It's not It does not hold up.

663
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

664
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,839
Speaker 3: I mean it's not like it wasn't as good as

665
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 3: the Chronic, not a mile.

666
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: But I liked it as much as the Chronic at

667
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: the time, and I don't anymore.

668
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you.

669
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 2: And part of that may have to do with the

670
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: fact that Snoop Dogg has I don't know, become the

671
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: Snoop Dogg of today.

672
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: Man, he's amazing. He's now the owner of the Thrower Records.

673
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 2: No, he's awesome, but I just feel like he's he's

674
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 2: a bit over exposed for my taste.

675
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: Oh, I see, he's like the the Peyton Manning of

676
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: the hip hop world. He's the Pedro Pascal of rap.

677
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: Okay, even better said, but he's.

678
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: An American treasure though. I mean like he's an Olympic

679
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: mascot along with Flavor Flav.

680
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 2: Now I'm picturing Snoop Dogg, Pedro Pascal, and Peyton Manning

681
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: and just sitting at lunch just saying, like, guys, this

682
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 2: is great.

683
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: I could see that talking about mutual funds.

684
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we should do something together because we're done out there.

685
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: Enough, right, it'll blow everyone's mind.

686
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 3: All right.

687
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 2: So we are in September nineteen ninety five, At this point,

688
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 2: sug Knight has dropped the dropped the bomb at the

689
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 2: Source Awards, which I'm sure did not sit well with

690
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,760
Speaker 2: Shawn Combs. And Tupac is in prison at this point,

691
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: and Knight and Comb's go to the same party here

692
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 2: in Atlanta at what was called the Platinum House. It's

693
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: a strip bar over on Piedmont Road near the Colonnade.

694
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 3: Which you love.

695
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, a fight breaks out and a guy named Jake

696
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 2: Roebles it was a death Row employee and he was

697
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 2: a blood and a close friend of sug Knight. He

698
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: was shot and killed and witnesses were like, Seawan Combs's

699
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 2: bodyguard is the one who did.

700
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 1: It, right, So this is not good. This has not

701
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 1: helped this rivalry at all. And eventually, I guess over

702
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 1: the same time, Tupac is still in prison, but sug

703
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: Knight is still visiting Tupac there, and like they're becoming

704
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: closer and closer because not only is Suge Night going

705
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: out of his way to go visit Tupac in prison,

706
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: he's also helping him financially, helped him post bail to

707
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: get out on an appeal. And when Tupac gets out

708
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 1: of prison, again. He's now deeply indebted to sug Knight,

709
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: but apparently they have become real friends. He releases his

710
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: fourth album, All Eyes on Me. I think it was

711
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: in February of nineteen ninety six, like immediately when double Platinum.

712
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: I think it went to number one on the charts.

713
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: So at this time, Death Row is at CANAM Studios

714
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: outside La That's what they're working out of, and people,

715
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: you know at the time were like, you know, the

716
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 2: real stuff is going down. There's a big gangster culture

717
00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: in and around that studio. Sug Knight is a real heavy.

718
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: He's threatening people right and left if they don't, you know,

719
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 2: aren't on his good side. And people are hanging out

720
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 2: there with gang members who are their security. So there's

721
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 2: you know, there might be bloods there one day, there

722
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: might be crips there one day. There might be a

723
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: huge singer there one day recording. But all of this

724
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: is sort of happening around can M Studios.

725
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: Right. So twopuckets out of prison, and remember like this

726
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 1: guy's like essentially a heat seeking missile focused on Biggie Smalls.

727
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: Like I get the impression that he just sat in

728
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: prison like ruminating about Biggie Smalls and getting back at him.

729
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: So one of the first things he does was hire

730
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: Biggie Small's wife, Faith Evans, who was herself a pretty

731
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 1: popular recording artist at the time. He offered her twenty

732
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars to be on one of his records,

733
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: a track for his album All Eyes on Me, and

734
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: she did. She's like, sure, twenty five grand I'll do it.

735
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 1: And I guess after she performed or laid down the track,

736
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: I guess what it's called. He was like, I got

737
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: my check at the hotel room. You got to come

738
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: over to my hotel room to get it.

739
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 3: The red flag.

740
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she went. Both of them say that he

741
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: propositioned her. He says that they had sex. She has

742
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: repeatedly denied and emphatically denied that they did. But just

743
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: the fact that they were in a hotel room together

744
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 1: gave tupac even if it wasn't true that they had sex,

745
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: gave him plenty of grounds to tell everybody that they

746
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 1: did have sex to at least gnaw at Biggie Small's

747
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: with questions, you know in this yeah.

748
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is his wife, so like it's on

749
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: for real. At this point, There's no coming back. At

750
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: the Sole Train Award show, this in March of ninety six,

751
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 2: Tupac and Biggie both won award, so they were there.

752
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 2: That was the first time they had been together since

753
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 2: that Quad Studio shooting, which is where it all started.

754
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 3: And they both had their guys with them. They both

755
00:38:58,960 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 3: had their entourages.

756
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: Tupac had the Bloods, Biggie had the South Side Crips

757
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 2: on his side, and there was a guy named Keith

758
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 2: d and he was a crip, so he is with Biggie.

759
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: And outside of this, at the Soul Train Award show,

760
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 2: they got into a fight.

761
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 3: Basically.

762
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: Witnesses said that Tupac is shouting, shouting down biggiees groups,

763
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: sort of inciting them. They all brandish guns, but nothing

764
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 2: happens at this point, just a lot of sort of

765
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 2: back and forth and like, you know, I've got my gun,

766
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: so shut up.

767
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's astounding Crips and Bloods with their guns drawn

768
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 1: in the same spot and no one shot anybody. That's crazy.

769
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: So Tupac released Hit Him Up, which is considered one

770
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: of the best diss tracks of all time. He actually

771
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,959
Speaker 1: specifically names Biggie Bye Well by name He also talks

772
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,919
Speaker 1: about how he slept with Biggie's wife, Faith Evans. Yeah,

773
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: and while this is also going on, there's like a

774
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: lot of money to that people have figured out we

775
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: can make from this, right, like this beef and like say,

776
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, some street skirmishes or whatever. This stuff makes news, right, Like,

777
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: people know about this and this is before I think

778
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: cell phones were still kind of bricky at the time,

779
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: long before the Internet, like, and people still knew about

780
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: this stuff. It was just a big deal. And that

781
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: helps sell records like crazy. It also helps sell magazines.

782
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: There's a Vibe magazine from September nineteen ninety five, and

783
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: on the covers Biggie Smalls and Sean Combs and it

784
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: talks about East versus West. Some people put their finger

785
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: on that Vibe issue and point to it as like

786
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: fanning the flames of this beef and essentially making these

787
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: these two groups like have to hate each other even

788
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: more or else they're going to seem weak or like,

789
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: you know, fake whatever.

790
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, And while the this is all going on,

791
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: Tupac is becoming a little more paranoid about death Row

792
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 2: records and sug Knight and basically like suge Knight's kind

793
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 2: of controlling the money, saying that you know you're gonna

794
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: blow all your money unless I'm in control. He didn't

795
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 2: think he was getting the proper royalties. He thought, you're

796
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 2: holding me back in Hollywood, and I'm trying to get

797
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: my movie career going. So like trouble is sort of

798
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 2: brewing on the inside there, which finally would culminate. On

799
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: September seventh, nineteen ninety six, a lot of people connected

800
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: with death Row records, Tupac, you know as one of them,

801
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: went to the Mike Tyson fight against Bruce Selden in

802
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,439
Speaker 2: Las Vegas, and after the fight, one of the Death

803
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 2: Row group members, he was a blood named Trevon Lane,

804
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 2: saw a guy who said, hey, he stole a death

805
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: Row necklace from me a few months ago. That guy's

806
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: name was Orlando Anderson. He was a crip and a

807
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 2: nephew of Keith d and Tupac. Sug Knight and other

808
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: people jump Anderson rough him up pretty good and a

809
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: few hours later, Suge Knight and Tupac are at a

810
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 2: STOPLIGHTE Cadillac pulls up next to them and the car

811
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: is shot up in Tupac.

812
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 3: Is dead six days later at the age of twenty five.

813
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently he was like making jokes and everything as

814
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,080
Speaker 1: he was being put onto the gurney after the shooting.

815
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: But he just went downhill really quick from there.

816
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

817
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: So a lot of people are like, this is Biggie,

818
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: this is Sean Combs. They had they said they had

819
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it, but this, this, this did

820
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: kind of give Biggie Smalls like a wide opening to

821
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: be like, this stuff has to stop. These this East

822
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: coast West coast thing has gotten out of hand. And

823
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: it seemed pretty cut and dry that really it was

824
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: them beating up Orlando Anderson and him and other crips

825
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:57,279
Speaker 1: being in town who targeted and carried out this drive by.

826
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: You know, that seems like almost certainly the explanation for

827
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:01,879
Speaker 1: the whole thing.

828
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's who the cops thought from the

829
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 2: very beginning. It was the guy that was jumped and

830
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 2: beat up. They didn't arrest him. He died a couple

831
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 2: of years later in a shooting in Compton. Fast forward

832
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 2: all the way to twenty nineteen. In a memoir where

833
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: Keith d admitted that he was in that Cadillac. He said,

834
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: I gave the gun to Anderson. He was in the

835
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: back seat. There were two other guys in the car.

836
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 2: Some people say it was a guy named DeAndre Smith

837
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 2: who was the actual trigger man. But basically everyone in

838
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: that car ended up being killed except for Keith D.

839
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,399
Speaker 2: And in September twenty twenty three, he was arrested and

840
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: charged with Tupac's murder. And that trial is going to

841
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 2: happen all these years later, coming up this summer in

842
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: August of twenty twenty six.

843
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Keith D and later on a Bad Boy

844
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: co founder named Kirk Burrows and others. After all these

845
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 1: allegations in revelations about what Sean Combs has been up

846
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 1: to came out, They've come forward him and like we

847
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: think he actually did have something to do with this.

848
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: Seems like a pretty quick turnaround to me. I think

849
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: it was just crips retaliating for a beatdown. So Tupac

850
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: is gone now, like you said, age twenty five, and

851
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 1: if you want, you can go. You know where Clarkston is, Chuck?

852
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 3: Uh? Sure? That was a rival high school of Ridan.

853
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,239
Speaker 1: There is a Tupac statue in memorial in Clarkston.

854
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 3: Did you know that I did? I've never seen it though.

855
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: We went there, You mean, I went there, and it's

856
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty amazing, and it's just in the middle

857
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: of this little RinkyDink suburb of Atlanta. Strange, but yeah cool.

858
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 2: That was kind of my stomping grounds. Was that area

859
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 2: of Memorial Drive where Clarkston was z owned?

860
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, Well we'll have to go to the

861
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: Tupac statue together.

862
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 3: I'll go check it out.

863
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: So I think what Chuck like, less than six months no,

864
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: right at about six months after Tupac was killed, Biggie

865
00:44:58,960 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: Small's was murdered.

866
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, this was March nineteen ninety seven. He was in

867
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 2: a car, riding in a car leaving a party a

868
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: Vibe magazine in La pronounced dead at the hospital. He

869
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: was but twenty four years old. And immediately everyone was like,

870
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: this is Shuge Knight, who by the way, people blamed

871
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: Tupac shooting initially on Shuge Knight. Yeah, but he was

872
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: shot as well. He was just grazed, but that seems

873
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: obviously to have not been the case. But everyone immediately

874
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 2: was like, no, Suge Knight. It definitely was in on

875
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 2: Biggie's murder.

876
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: In retaliation for Tupac shooting, right. Yeah, It's also entirely

877
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 1: possible that Shawn Combs did this too, but it certainly

878
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: seems to have been a contract hit. Like the people

879
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 1: who killed Biggie Small's shot and shot into his car.

880
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 1: They were lying in wait. They were essentially parked at

881
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: this intersection, waiting for them to stop. They stopped. Shawn

882
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: Comb's car ran a red light and Biggie's car stopped

883
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: at it. So Shawn Combs wasn't near the shooting when

884
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: it happened. There was an FBI agent who came forward

885
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: or actually I guess created a whole report on this,

886
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: who was like this. It was essentially the LAPD hiring

887
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: a hit man at the behest of either Suge Knight

888
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 1: or Sean Combs. And if so, it was not Tupac's

889
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: probably was not a conspiracy. Biggie Small's murder was almost

890
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: certainly a conspiracy.

891
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know Suge Knight would have done all

892
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 2: this from jail. He was in jail at the time.

893
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 2: He is in jail. He's in prison now. Again, this

894
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 2: is from This is a twenty eight year sentence, so

895
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: this is a big one. And this is for the

896
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: death of a Compton businessman from twenty fifteen. He was

897
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 2: never charged in Biggie's killing. But Biggie's last record or

898
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: last you know, sort of official release. I know they

899
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 2: both put out a lot of stuff posthumously. But his

900
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: next like real drop was Life After Death. Was called

901
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 2: that before he was murdered. But that sold more than

902
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 2: ten million copies and certified diamond.

903
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess not as Tupac released nine posthumous albums,

904
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: seven of them went platinum. Yeah. Did you know sug

905
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: Knight has a podcast from jail called collect Call uh Hit.

906
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 3: That's a pretty good name. It's a great podcast from prison.

907
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: Agreed. Yeah, you want to know what ended the East

908
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:28,280
Speaker 1: Coast West Coast beef?

909
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: Oh was that still not happening?

910
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,320
Speaker 1: No? No, it ended fairly soon after this rat became

911
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: more decentralized in groups like Outcast came out. Yeah, and

912
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: the whether you were from the East Coast or the

913
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 1: West Coast was watered down. It didn't matter nearly as much.

914
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,800
Speaker 1: So you can thank Outcasts for ending the East Coast

915
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: West Coast rivalry.

916
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, because people are like, no one's got a beef

917
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 3: with Big Boy and Andre.

918
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 1: No, everybody loves them for sure, Like I know we've

919
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: some maybe facetious. We are not being.

920
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: Facetious right now. No, hell abotcast.

921
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: One last thing. Apparently Michael Jackson assaulted Tupac once in

922
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 1: a studio when Tupac insulted Quincy Jones's daughter.

923
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 3: Oh h, Rashida or another one.

924
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: Another one, not Rashida. I don't think it was Rashida.

925
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: I don't know.

926
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 3: I went. I wonder how. I wonder how that fight went.

927
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: It's a widespread rumor. And apparently also, you know, Biggie

928
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 1: was on one of Michael Jackson's songs like doing his thing,

929
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 1: like legit doing his thing. It wasn't watered down for

930
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 1: the radio or anything like that. And apparently Michael Jackson

931
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,400
Speaker 1: threw his lot in with Biggie and was not a

932
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 1: big fan of Tupac and snubbed him once. Oh wow,

933
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 1: and apparently in addition to beating him up.

934
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 2: And everyone said, no one cares put side here on

935
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,479
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson. You don't have that kind of cred.

936
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: No, but it is a like Biggie does a pretty

937
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: good job on that song.

938
00:48:58,360 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 3: I'll have to check it out.

939
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's it, Chuck man.

940
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 3: We did it.

941
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: We did it. We made it through. Hopefully we didn't

942
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: sound too ridiculous and dorky at any point, but we'll

943
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: find out. Yeah, Chuck said, yeah, it means it's time

944
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: for listener now.

945
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is just kind of a nice email with

946
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 3: some good suggestions. Hey guys, my name is Josiah Brown.

947
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: I live in Tennessee.

948
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: I've been a devoted fan since I was about ten

949
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 2: years old and I'm twenty now. My mom put me

950
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 2: on you guys, and I basically never stopped.

951
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:27,919
Speaker 3: So thanks Mom.

952
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: Thanks Mom.

953
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,959
Speaker 3: I've been binge listening recently. I do that every so often.

954
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: I've just been reminded of how wonderful the show is,

955
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 2: and I just want to reach out and say thanks

956
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,600
Speaker 2: for providing some wonderful content and bringing the same big

957
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 2: old smile to my face all these years.

958
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 3: Keep up the good workfellas, and that is Josiah Bee.

959
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 3: And Josiah had a lot.

960
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 2: Of good ideas, including Ann Frank, Oscar Schindler. Motown Okay,

961
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 2: I want to do Motown for sure, mister Rogers, I

962
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 2: can't believe we haven't done that one yet.

963
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: We were going to, and then that Tom Hanks movie

964
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 1: came out and kind of ruined it for a little while.

965
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I finally saw that on a plane recently.

966
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: Would you think did you see it?

967
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 3: Uh? It was? Okay yep.

968
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: And the Hindenburg, and that the Hindenburg is going to

969
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 2: be coming at some point in the not too distant

970
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 2: future because we commissioned that article and it's it's in

971
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: the folder on the computer, so I definitely know we're

972
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,000
Speaker 2: going to get to that one.

973
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 1: Okay, boo, Yeah, who is that again, Josiah, Josiah, thanks

974
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 1: a lot, Josiah. That was a very nice email, and

975
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 1: thanks for all the great ideas. If we do any

976
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,120
Speaker 1: of them, hopefully will remember to credit you with them, right.

977
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 3: That's right, except for the Hindenburg. Yeah, it's already in

978
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 3: the bad Okay.

979
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 1: If you want to be like Josiah and email in,

980
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,439
Speaker 1: we would love to hear from you. You can send

981
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:46,879
Speaker 1: it off to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

982
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

983
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

984
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:57,560
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.