WEBVTT - Sarah Polley Rewrites Her Story 0:00:02.160 --> 0:00:04.680 Hey, this is Talia Schlanger and you're listening to Here's 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:08.240 the Thing from My Heart Radio. My guest today can't 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:12.880 help but excel at everything she does, from acting to directing, 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:17.239 writing features to making documentaries. She is celebrated in so 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:21.880 many different circles. It's the multi talented Sarah Polly. As 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.400 a child actor, Polly starred in films like Terry Gilliams, 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.680 The Adventures of Baron Munchausen and the beloved CBC series 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.920 Rode to Avonlea. She moved on to acclaimed rolls in 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.479 The Sweet Hereafter Go and Dawn of the Dead. In 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:39.240 her twenties, she made the move to writing and directing. 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.280 Her first film away from her started Julie Christie and 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.239 Olympia Ducacus and earned Polly an Academy Award nomination for 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:49.159 Best Adapted Screenplay as well as a Genie Award for 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:53.000 Best Direction. Since then, she has continued to write and 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.760 direct for TV and film, and she branched into documentary 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.800 with Stories We Tell, the film about her family history. 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.920 Poully can now add author to her growing list of accomplishments. 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:07.360 She recently released her first book, It's called Run Towards 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:11.000 the Danger, Confrontations with a body of memory, and it's 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:14.759 a pretty stunning collection of essays exploring some difficult chapters 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:17.720 in her life. Sarah Paully told me what it means 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.280 to run towards the danger. Well, the first time I 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.680 heard that was from a Dr Mickey Collins at the 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.039 University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, and I had had a 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:31.200 pretty serious concussion, very serious concussion. I mean, for the 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.440 first year I wasn't able to do much at all, 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.480 and then I would have periods that were better than others, 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:41.160 as long as I managed my stimulation while and didn't 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:44.040 have too much noise or light. But basically it altered 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:46.720 my life and made me unable to do a lot 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.560 of the things I've been able to do, and unable 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.040 to handle a lot of the things I've been able 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:55.320 to handle. I eventually ended up with Dr Mickey Collins 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.000 in Pittsburgh, and I remember him saying to me in 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.680 that first meeting, if you remember only one thing from 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.920 this meeting, remember this run towards the danger. And what 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.600 he meant by that was a kind of paradigm shift 0:02:09.639 --> 0:02:12.000 in terms of how to recover from a concussion. So 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:13.799 a lot of the advice you get when you have 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.600 a concussion is to rest, to listen to your body, 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:19.560 to slow down. The better concussion doctors will tell you 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.920 to exercise, but when you feel like your symptoms are 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:27.000 becoming too much, go rest or do something else. And 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.640 his advice was really different from that. His advice was, 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:32.200 the things that are hard for you, the things that 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.840 are causing you discomfort and pain because of your concussion, 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:37.480 are the things you actually need to do more of 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.720 because your brain has become weaker and weaker at handling 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.440 these things. Because of this, you know the way you've 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:48.239 been protecting yourself. So this was of course scaffolded with 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:52.040 a lot of like vestibular exercises and physical exercises, and 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.880 every treatment he gives is different. But the notion of 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:00.560 moving towards what causes you discomfort instead of away from 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.799 it being a key ingredient to healing was a really 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.240 new concept for me, and then one that kind of 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.880 exploded out into all of these other areas of my 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:13.560 life and became, in a way, the genesis for bringing 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:16.519 all of these essays together into this book. Also, I 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:18.880 should say at that time, you had two small kids, 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.840 like you're juggling a lot of things while you're trying 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.680 to take on this this advice of confronting the pain 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.080 or pushing past what you think your threshold is. And 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:29.880 it's one thing to do that on a physical level, 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:31.320 but then it's a whole little thing to do that 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.440 on an emotional level with stories like you've done with 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:38.520 this book. What was the process like for you of 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.520 pushing past the threshold to get these stories out. I mean, 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.600 it was a long one and kind of it was 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:46.480 a bit of a windy road. I mean, I'd been 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:49.120 writing some of these essays for twenty years and didn't 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.320 have the courage to either finish them or to share them, 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:54.520 or I would, you know, write a few paragraphs and 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:56.880 put it away for years and then pull it out again. 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.920 I mean, the stories in this book were some of 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.480 the hardest stories for me to look at that I've 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:06.200 ever experienced. The ones that were pivotal, the ones that 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.720 hurt the most, the ones that I wasn't even sure 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.040 what the shape of the narrative was. Those stories that 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:15.120 leave you with a kind of confusion that you haul 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:18.640 along with you. These were those stories for me. So 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.279 this idea of running towards the danger began um taking 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:26.200 on the form of, you know, opening these word documents 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:29.120 that I kept shutting or had put away or even 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:31.360 like hidden myself in files and the combune where they 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:35.159 were hard to find, and going, what is it about 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.880 this that's making me so scared to continue the story, 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.919 or to finish the story, or to even read what 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:46.039 I've written. And those became the stories I became most 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:49.280 determined to tell, no matter how hard they were. Why 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:51.880 I determined to tell them for yourself, for your own exorcism, 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.840 or for the benefit of others, or a combination. I 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:57.680 think some of them I didn't know why I was 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.680 writing them. I mean, some of these essays. There's one 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.040 about stage fright and scoliosis and my mother dying, and 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.520 you know, a thousand other things. The first essay, which 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:08.680 is called Alice Collapsing, which I wrote when I was 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:13.240 eighteen and twenty three and thirty three and forty, like 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.080 it's written by four different people. Like, I don't think 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.200 I knew why I was writing that story when I 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.680 started it, and by the time I was writing at forty, 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:25.440 I probably did. I think all of them became for 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.440 me interesting ways of looking at the way the past 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.719 and the present relate to each other the way I 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.520 think we are all very well acquainted now with the 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.919 idea that our past and childhood experiences inform our present life. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.920 I guess I also hope that like this notion that 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:46.240 childhood trauma or experience are difficult experiences from another time 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.560 in your life, aren't static. They don't have to live 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:52.960 there always as these ticking time bombs or these jaggedy 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:57.240 sharp things that like, if you get to live a 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.359 life where stories that echo those story is go a 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.240 different better way. Those stories can become lighter, like, those 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:06.280 stories can become easier to carry, Those stories can have 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.640 in the end a totally different meaning to you than 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.279 they have now. Like those stories that feel so static 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:16.000 and hard and rigid in your stomach can actually loosen 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:22.719 um and become more flexible and interesting if you can 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.200 kind of dive in and pull the threads and be curious. 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.480 So I think for me, that's what the the recovery 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.080 process with all of these stories looked like for me 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.960 was the diving in and the being conscious of the 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.800 past in the present life. Having the present life go 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.920 a different way actually meant the past looks and feels 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.800 differently to me. Now. The subtitle of the book is 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.240 Confrontations with a Body of Memory. And when we talk 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:54.240 about the literal body that you're confronting in this book, 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.640 you've already mentioned a concussion scoliosis, which you are diagnosed 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.160 with at age eleven, being in a hard plus dig 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.080 brace at a time of puberty when your body is changing. 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.200 But also for you, at a time when you're starting 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.400 on a television show and day in and day out 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.480 you are being looked at by people and people are 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:12.840 putting clothes on you and and fitting you for things. Um, 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.080 how did that diagnosis looking back on it now, how 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:20.480 did that diagnosis shape your relationship to your physical body? Yeah, 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.000 I mean the thing that complicated the experience for me, 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.600 and I think it's complicated for any person who goes 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:27.600 through this as a kid. But the thing that complicated 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:30.400 for me was I was living a very public life 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:32.400 and I was on the lead in the TV show, 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.920 and at a certain point I was also you know, 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.480 on stage at Stratford, and so you know, there were 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:40.640 long costume fittings of like how do we make her 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.520 body look normal? Or how do we accommodate the costumes 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.040 to fit this brace. So it was a very public 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.160 display of what was already a very uncomfortable and somewhat 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.560 humiliating experience. So the way I dealt with that was 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:56.000 just separating who I was from what was happening to 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.400 my body. I think, and I get a sense like 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:01.440 learning to maybe a nor what your body is telling 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.080 you about how it's feeling in order to perform in 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:06.200 the way you have have to. Is that fair to 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.880 say as well? Yeah? Absolutely, Is that common in the 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:14.640 acting industry, I would think, I think so. I think so. 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.760 I mean, I think there's also there's a sense that 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.880 nothing can stop for a human being, right, Like I 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.160 think in film and television, the idea that anything would 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:28.720 delay anything for an hour even is inconceivable. So you 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:33.080 kind of learned to just trudge through your humans. Like 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.839 I remember we were just location scoting for this film 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.520 I did in this summer. It was like a hundred 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:39.199 and eight degrees with the human dex and we were 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.920 trudging through these soy fields and and how much water 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.280 food with us, and we all just kept going and 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.560 like we did that for like hours, and I got 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:51.800 home and went like, why didn't one of us complain 0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:53.800 about that or stop it. And this was a pretty 0:08:53.840 --> 0:08:56.360 compassionate set compared to most, and we're all pretty aware 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:58.000 and we had conversations about it all the time, how 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.120 do we make this a really safe, welcoming place. But 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.840 ultimately nobody wanted to be the one to say, like 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.520 it's too hot, I need water or I need food. 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:11.600 And it's like we had created an environment very consciously 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.400 that was to be humane. It's like this thing switches 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.920 on you go into like soldier mode or something where 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:20.400 you're just you got to be a trooper. And I 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:22.520 certainly have that from being a child actor. It's like 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.360 you can't be the one to delay or stop anything. 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:27.959 And I think it just creates the possibility for a 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.120 lot of really big problems on sets. You know, I 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.240 sa a lot of pressure if you don't mind it. 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.680 Like I think the incident that's coming to mind, which 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:36.800 you relay in the book, is when you were nine 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:39.080 years old and starring in this film that was directed 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.080 by Terry Gilliam. Would you mind saying a little bit 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.280 about what that set experience was like so that we 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:47.400 can you know, picture what you're saying. Yeah, so I 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:49.160 actually lot as a kid and one of the main 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.959 parts I did was the role of Sally Salt in 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:54.240 the Adventures of barrenman Chausen, which was directed by Terry 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:58.080 Gilliam when I was eight, and it was a production that, 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.839 you know, notoriously spiral that of control. There was a 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:02.720 book written about it called Losing the Light. I mean, 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.200 it was like one of those big disastrous movie stories 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.760 about a production gone awry, and there were a lot 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.559 of special effects, there were a lot of stunts, and 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.720 many times things felt wildly out of control and dangerous, 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:19.240 and you know, some of those incidents involved explosives going 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.600 off really close to me. And there was an incident 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.440 in a boat where we're in a rowboat with a 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.000 few actors and a horse, and explosives were going off 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:30.120 in a water tank beside the horse and the boat, 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.160 and it spook the horse and it started backing up 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.200 into us, and the rider took it overboard, and that 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.680 surfaced another explosive that went off really close to me, 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:39.760 and I went to hospital, and you know, there were 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:42.760 a lot of really terrifying things that happened on that set. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.760 Um So I kind of grew up with this feeling 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:51.040 of a set being a very unstable, scary place, but 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:57.000 that it was absolutely not my right to stop what 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.800 was in motion, no matter how unsafe it became, and that, 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.199 you know, that became somewhat ingrained. And so I think 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.360 I've spent a lot of time as a filmmaker trying 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.839 to unpack those instincts that make you want to keep 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.400 going when you should really stop, and to try to 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:16.480 kind of reorient what the priorities and focus need to 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.480 be when you are responsible for a whole bunch of 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:20.600 other human beings. But you know, I don't think I'm 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:22.640 always successful at it. It's like it's just like a 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.079 work in progress all the time. What made you want 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:26.520 to act in the first place, Like, was it was 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:28.200 it your choice when you were a really small kid. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.160 Was it something that you wanted to do? I mean 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.839 the story I was told as a kid, was I 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:38.160 desperately wanted to do it? My parents were in the industry, 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:40.840 you know, my mom was a casting director. My gut 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.200 is it probably happened a little bit more organically in 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.360 terms of her breaking and for an audition than that. 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.280 But certainly I think they were getting something out of it, 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:51.520 Like I think they were getting access to a world 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:53.600 that they wanted access to. I think they were excited 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:55.400 for me to get access to a world that had 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.120 been hard for them to get access to. There was 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.280 nothing malicious about my parents, and they were very loving, 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:04.520 great people. But I do think it's possible to get 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:06.400 carried away, Like, especially when a kid has a certain 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.000 measure of success, it can get hard to track how 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.080 much of this is my kid's passion and how much 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.000 am I getting out of it. I think that can 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.640 be really easy to lose track of. Yeah, I'm interested 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:22.960 to know. I guess how you made the transition from 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:24.960 acting when you were a kid to the choices that 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:29.160 you made for yourself as an adult. Because can imagine 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.320 a world where you could have thought, I want to 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.400 be the hollywoodist actor that I can be, Like, now 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:35.520 that I'm doing it and I'm in this industry, I'm 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:38.400 I'm going to go for it. Tell me about, like 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.240 how you decided what was going to be of interest 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.320 to you as an adult if you continued acting well. 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.400 I think one of the advantages of being a child 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:52.160 actor and seeing you know, big Hollywood productions completely out 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.760 of control and seeing how kind of disposable people's well 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.040 being was at a very early age on sets Is. 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:00.719 It made me really skept a call, which I think 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.560 was really helpful and really healthy as an adult in 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.040 terms of making choices, Like, I think I was really 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:10.960 conscious I had a really really active bullshit detector. I 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.800 knew that I didn't want to be really famous. I 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.960 knew that I wanted to if I was going to 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:18.760 be involved in this industry at all, which I think 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.880 I had a lot of cynicism about generally. I knew 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:23.480 that I wanted to be on projects that I had 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.080 felt had some meaning or something to say, or at 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:31.600 least would be in connection with people that weren't single 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.319 focus who had a sense of humanity about them. So 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.000 I think it really helped shape the kinds of decisions 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:41.760 I made, and then certainly as a filmmaker, Um, I 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.960 really want to know why I'm making what I'm making, like, 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.000 I really want to know who it's serving and why 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:50.800 and how. So it's got to have meaning for me, 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.560 It's got to have a purpose, that has to have 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:55.240 a reason for being. I think the gratitude for just 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.560 being here is is slowly dawning on me as an 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.920 adult and as I get older, but it's taken a 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:03.080 long time to get here, If I can say so, 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:05.120 I think that's why your work is so good, Like 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:07.960 it's made for the sake of having something to say, 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.120 rather than for the sake of making something or or 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.760 anything else. I mean this, this shouldn't really be remarkable, 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.640 but it kind of is that you. You made your 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.920 you directed your first film when you were in your 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.840 mid twenties, and I say it's remarkable because it's quite young, 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.800 especially for a female filmmaker. The film Away from Her, 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.120 which was so beautiful. What was it like to actually 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.880 get that film made. I had been trying for years 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.360 to get a film made before that one, and it 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.120 was really hard at first. I think the idea of 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.800 a young actress making a movie was really hard for 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:44.400 people to wrap their heads around. Like there are a 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.920 lot of amazing young actresses making movies now. But then 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.280 it was like if you were a male actor trying 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.080 to direct, it was treated very, very differently, and I 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.280 think people thought it was like some hobby or something 0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:01.160 I was trying. Yeah, so I tried to make one 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.200 movie for like years, and then it was I was 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.640 turned down in more and more humiliating ways by Telefilm, 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.920 our government film ending agency, and finally I I wrote 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.239 away from her quite quickly, and I gave myself a deadline, 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.920 and the deadline was like something absurd, like in six 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.240 months from now, if this film isn't green light, I'm 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:18.880 not going to try to direct again, Like I just 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.160 can't do this anymore. And it turned out it was 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.920 that kind of energy that's sort of nothing to lose, 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:25.800 do or die energy that it took to actually get 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.920 a movie financed. And then I had champions, like then 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:30.880 there was this big changing of the guard at Telephone, 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.000 which was the film funding agency at the time, and 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:36.320 then it came together quite quickly. But certainly there was 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:38.840 a lot of you know, not always being taken seriously, 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.200 like thankfully my closest collaborators did. And I was surrounded 0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.760 by both really supportive women and also really great men 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.920 who who took me really seriously and helped me just 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:52.360 sort of assume that leadership role which I was nervous about. 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.000 But in terms of financiers and like sort of people 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.840 on the outside and around it, you know, you're sort 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:02.400 of where you were being watched like this little ingenue 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:07.520 trying to trying something on, and yeah, it was it 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.200 was interesting, And it was interesting also to go from 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:14.600 being an actress who people kind of humored to somebody 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.120 who was in a position where, you know, you could 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:20.640 really feel what people thought of you and felt about you, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.440 and it was it was healthy. But you know, a 0:16:23.480 --> 0:16:26.760 bit of a shocked bassist. Yeah, I bet at what 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.040 point did you feel like you had earned people's respect? Well, 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:31.960 you know, I'd made a bunch of short films at 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.240 that point, and I'd slowly, through the crewing of those 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.600 short films, found my people and found the people that 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.120 we're like really trying to create a space for me 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.080 to find myself as a filmmaker. So I found my 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.080 D O P and my first A D and so 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.480 I did feel like I had an incredibly supportive team 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.000 when I was actually on the floor of that film, 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.520 and Julie Christie and Olympdocacus like these were people who 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.440 had been kind of mentoring me and pushing me forward. 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.360 And I also think that I hugely benefited from those 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.680 very un usual experience I had had, which is that 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.520 I'd worked with a few female filmmakers as a young actor, 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.639 which again it's not a big deal now to have 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:09.840 worked with female filmmakers it was a really big deal then, 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:12.040 like to have worked with Katherine Bigelow, to have worked 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.840 with Isabel Quichet, to have these models, and as soon 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.639 as I expressed the slightest interest in directing, they just 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.320 sort of threw their bodies behind me and pushed, you know, 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:24.679 like it was just like, you know, being a female 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:29.400 filmmaker twenty years ago was really freaking hard. It's it's 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:31.800 hard now, but it was a lot harder than and 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.000 they were just like, here's okay, you're a dog with 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.680 a bone. Don't let the bone go. Everyone's going to 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:39.480 try to take away from you. Remember Catherine Bigge was 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:41.320 like this, everyone will try to take the bone away 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:44.199 from you. Hold onto the bone, and like it was 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.440 such great advice, and that is kind of what it took. 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:48.320 It was like people are trying to get the bone 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:51.240 away one of the phone and Isabel just going okay, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:53.159 what's next, what's next? You know, Like there was this 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:55.840 sense of women who are a bit older than me 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.200 shoving me forward. And I think that's ultimately the real 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.240 reason why I made a film in my mid twenties 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.040 at a time when it was unusual for a young 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.720 actress to make a film because I had had these 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:11.240 female mentors, I had seen it modeled. They put that 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.679 energy into encouraging me, and I think that's sort of everything. 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:16.879 You know, when you are part of a group of 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.320 people that's underrepresented, you need those people ahead of you 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.760 and behind you shoving you forward. Yeah, and you need 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:26.440 to not not let go of that bone. I want 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.960 to come back to acting for just a second in 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.639 your adult life, because in getting ready to talk to you, 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.080 I watched this clip of you on a Canadian talk 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.720 show called John Division from back in the day. I 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.960 was like, I grew up in cann It's a beloved 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.240 TV show and you're so cool on it. You're seventeen 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.560 years old. And you said, um, I've am quoting you. 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:51.359 I've never been a good actor or had this great talent. 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:54.280 I've just sort of taken sides of myself at different 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.760 times and toyed with them. But I don't think it's 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.760 a great talent that's in my blood or something. And 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:02.159 I heard that and I was like, wait, isn't that 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.720 what acting? Is that what acting is for some people? 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:07.159 I don't know what do you make of What do 0:19:07.200 --> 0:19:10.520 you make of that? Now that you've acted a lot 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:14.200 as an adult and also directed other people. Yeah, that's 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:19.280 so interesting. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I guess 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:23.399 it can be what acting is, although it's funny, like 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.920 I directed this film the summer called Women Talking, and 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.040 the actors in this film were just machines, like they 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.640 were acting machines like they were. It was Claire Foy 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.199 and Jesse Buckley and Rooney Mara and Sheila McCarthy and 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:39.879 Judith Ivy and Michelle McCloud and it was just like 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:45.160 Ben Wishaw and Francis McDormand, and like they were just 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:51.439 like these geniuses. And I was watching the way they 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.280 were working, and I really do think there's something fundamentally 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:56.000 different about what I used to do as an actor 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:57.480 when I was acting on what they're doing. And I 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.080 think what they're doing is like pushing themselves to like 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:05.399 the absolute outer or limit of what is possible in 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:09.760 terms of like embodying another human being and risking everything, 0:20:09.920 --> 0:20:14.080 like risking everything psychologically and emotionally to get where they 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.840 need to go. I didn't do that as an actor. 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:18.560 I mean, i'd like to think if I ever went 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:20.000