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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Andrew the try Force Howard. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. Friends and neighbors, fellow

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Speaker 3: conspiracy realists, we know you know, we know the score.

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Speaker 3: A lot of us are snacking on something, having a

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Speaker 3: little nash as we as we tune into these episodes

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Speaker 3: or to our strange news or listener mail. Just want

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Speaker 3: to give you a heads up. If you're eating, this

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Speaker 3: might not be the jam for you. It might not

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Speaker 3: be the jelly. It might not be the chicken salad

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Speaker 3: that you were seeking.

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Speaker 4: I'll have chicken, guys, but I still have yet to

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Speaker 4: come around on chicken salad.

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Speaker 5: It weirds me out. Just saying it out loud kind.

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Speaker 4: Of weirds me out a little bit, even though I

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Speaker 4: like everything that it contains, But something about it being

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Speaker 4: this like gulash of like pasty, kind of mayonnaisy.

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Speaker 5: Chicken just wears me out.

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Speaker 4: But I know there are chicken salad people who are like, no,

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Speaker 4: you just have to have the right one, and please

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Speaker 4: let us know your recipe. What's a good chicken salad

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Speaker 4: recipe that'll turn a denier like myself?

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Speaker 2: Crepes, add grape, okay, and then put it on raisin bread.

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Speaker 3: You could add all sorts of stuff. Yeah, I love

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Speaker 3: this question because chicken salad is such an umbrella term,

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Speaker 3: and salad can be confusing because I believe a lot

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Speaker 3: of us in the US associated purely with vegetable or

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Speaker 3: produce salads. But the edemal like salad in culinary terms,

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Speaker 3: is just a mixture of stuff put to get owns.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think part of it also, it might be

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Speaker 4: that expression you can't make chicken shit into chicken salad.

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Speaker 5: I just think that sticks.

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Speaker 3: With me for an expression.

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Speaker 5: It really is.

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Speaker 4: It's a thing because it's like it's like putting what

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Speaker 4: do they say, a sow's year into a silk purse

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Speaker 4: from a sow's year.

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Speaker 5: It's kind of the same idea that one.

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Speaker 3: Well, it makes sense that chicken would be a go

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Speaker 3: to in so many figures of speech were idioms because

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Speaker 3: it's one of the world's most popular meats. Like, as

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Speaker 3: we record tonight, billions of human beings are eating billions

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Speaker 3: of chickens in one form or another. Every year. More

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Speaker 3: than sixty billion chickens are killed at some point in

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Speaker 3: the production process because they're part of the planets or

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Speaker 3: one of the planet's largest industrialized livestock programs in all

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Speaker 3: of human history. I mean even gosh, not too long ago,

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Speaker 3: we were talking about how an argument over boneless wings

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Speaker 3: recently went to the courts in Ohio. Remember that one.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was a very controversial debate there, very contentious.

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Speaker 5: A lot of people really had a bone pick.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, there it is not there, it is no apologies.

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Speaker 2: Well, some important stuff. What does boneless actually mean?

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Speaker 3: Sure? What does organic mean? What is antibiotic free?

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Speaker 5: Was there once a bone that was removed? Is that

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Speaker 5: the key?

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Speaker 2: Just because we say it's boneless doesn't mean there's no bones.

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Speaker 3: Or is there a translation era? Is it bone comma less?

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Speaker 3: You know, like fewer bones. That seems to be what

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Speaker 3: the court's going with.

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Speaker 4: I just think it's funny that there's also like the

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Speaker 4: flip side of that that is considered a feature, which

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Speaker 4: is bone in like a ribbi, you know, a fancy

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Speaker 4: steak that have bone in before it.

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Speaker 5: Like, that's what you want.

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Speaker 3: Chick and thigh.

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Speaker 5: We left zachy just hick you.

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Speaker 3: Guys, chicken die with bone end man. That's the way

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Speaker 3: to go for our home cooks, as long as you're

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Speaker 3: not vegetarian or vegan. And speaking of a mixture of things.

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Speaker 3: In a previous conversation, uh we in we had a

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Speaker 3: series wherein we investigated the dark side of the livestock

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Speaker 3: industry overall. This time we're back with a new cluck

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Speaker 3: to step two. We're scoping in on one creature in particular,

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Speaker 3: one entity in particular, a thing that spans the globe

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Speaker 3: the same way the Dutch East India Company spanned the

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Speaker 3: globe in days of old. We're talking about Big Chicken,

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Speaker 3: and not the uh, not the weird statue a little

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Speaker 3: north of the Atlanta metro.

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Speaker 5: Area with that googly eye watching you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, KFC's Big Chicken. Uh It's I'm not gonna

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be a hater. I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to say it's worth visiting. If you have one day

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Speaker 3: in the Atlanta area before your next flight. But if

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Speaker 3: you find yourself here for let's say four days or

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Speaker 3: a week, and you've got a car, you got wheels,

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Speaker 3: then why not drive by it? It's you know, it's

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Speaker 3: a spectacle.

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Speaker 4: It makes some lists, you know, of roadside oddities. I

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Speaker 4: think it's worth, you know, checking off of your particular list.

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Speaker 2: If that's your thing, Drive by the Big Chicken and

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Speaker 2: then enjoy a Chick fil a sand.

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Speaker 3: Exactly right, Even though Big Chicken is from KFC, exactly

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Speaker 3: what it used to be a sign for a KFC,

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Speaker 3: and I don't think it's there anymo.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the chicken remains.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, So it looks like we got to get

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Speaker 3: up there too, get some fieldwork in. Big Chicken is huge.

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Speaker 3: There are dozens of conspiracy surrounding this. There are thousands

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Speaker 3: of controversies, and there's some dark stuff on the horizon.

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Speaker 3: But how did we get here? To answer that, we're

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Speaker 3: going to have to learn a little bit about chickens.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, here are the facts, all right.

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Speaker 3: We did some episodes. We and our colleagues did some

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Speaker 3: episodes on domestication as a concept over the almost two

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Speaker 3: decades now. And if you want to learn more about domestication.

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Speaker 3: Highly recommend stuff you should know by our pals Josh

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Speaker 3: and Chuck. If you want to learn about the domestication

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Speaker 3: of dogs, check out our series on ridiculous History. If

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Speaker 3: you want to learn about the domestication of chickens, you're

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Speaker 3: gonna have to break past some assumptions. Assumptions I thought

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Speaker 3: we all had, you know, I always assumed that the

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Speaker 3: domestication of the bird we call the chicken was ancient.

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Speaker 3: It was like pre recorded history.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was thought for a long time, like sheeper goats,

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Speaker 4: that they were domesticated around eleven thousand years ago.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks like chickens are actually, in comparison, quite

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Speaker 3: new to the domestication game, just about three to four

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Speaker 3: thousand years ago. And it is. This is a cool,

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Speaker 3: weird fact. The domestication occurs in step with the cultivation

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Speaker 3: of rice in Southeast Asia.

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Speaker 2: Makes sense. Chicken and rice, they go together, nice.

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Speaker 5: Very good dish.

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Speaker 4: And I believe the original birds that were domesticated were

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Speaker 4: called wild red jungle fowl from Southeast Asia.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's inn't that funny. Humans have been terrified of

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Speaker 2: chickens for a long time, just so afraid of them.

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Speaker 2: Didn't want them around the houses. Just keep those chickens away.

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Speaker 2: A little dinosaurs and can get behind that. Get out

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Speaker 2: of here.

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Speaker 5: They were frecky little guys. Man. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: They will eat each other. They are. Yeah, they're very

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Speaker 3: different personalities, but personalities they do possess. It wasn't until

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty we'll go to Science magazine here that a

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Speaker 3: study of a deep study of chicken genes like DNA

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Speaker 3: of modern chickens confirmed a humble jungle foul. The Gallus

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Speaker 3: Gallus spedicus subspecies was the ancestor of living chickens, sort

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Speaker 3: of the avi and eve in this situation, and chickens

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Speaker 3: share more of their DNA with that specific subspecies than

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Speaker 3: any other subspecies, and this helped the scientists do some forensics.

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Speaker 3: They narrowed down the side of domestication to Southeast Asia,

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Speaker 3: and then they did a couple of other studies, all

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Speaker 3: to research the original assumption that everybody grew up with,

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Speaker 3: which was that chickens were domesticated back when the sheep

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Speaker 3: and the goat was domesticated. There's a cool team up

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Speaker 3: between a paleo anatomis and a bio archaeologist specialized in domestication,

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Speaker 3: which I didn't know was a job you could have.

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Speaker 3: So shout out to Joris Peters and Gregor Larsen. They

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Speaker 3: went around the world, you guys, in two separate studies

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Speaker 3: looking into sites of antiquity that happened to have chicken bones,

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Speaker 3: whether in a campfire pot or whether buried with a

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Speaker 3: human as you would bury a beloved pet.

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Speaker 4: Man. If they ever have to reassess bioarchaeologically the nature

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Speaker 4: of chickens, Atlanta will be the perfect site for chicken bones.

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Speaker 5: It's there got a more lousy with them. They're everywhere.

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Speaker 4: The joke online is very much based on the reality

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Speaker 4: of living in the city.

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Speaker 2: They find their way into that red clay and then

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Speaker 2: they'll be there for the future. It is interesting, just

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Speaker 2: this concept of having chickens as pets. I was being

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Speaker 2: silly there talking about scary little you know dinosaurs and but.

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Speaker 3: No, it's true.

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Speaker 5: It's true.

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Speaker 2: No, if you've spent any time around chickens, whether it's

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Speaker 2: just you know, a couple, maybe it's just six to

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Speaker 2: twelve or something like that, that are being raised for

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Speaker 2: their egg production or something like that. Uh, these animals

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Speaker 2: are can be at least extremely affectionate and curious and

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Speaker 2: like interested in humans in some way I could say,

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Speaker 2: down to hang around you, and it's it's actually I

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Speaker 2: can imagine it. I can imagine a chicken making a

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Speaker 2: really cool pet, maybe more dog.

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Speaker 3: Well, they form bonds for sure, like they're Another stereotype

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Speaker 3: we have to bust is the myth of being bird brained,

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Speaker 3: because chickens can have complex emotional lives. They recognize humans.

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Speaker 3: They you know, they experience pain and joy and grief

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Speaker 3: and curiosity and you know, all the hits, all the

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Speaker 3: slow jazz, which means that there are also and I'm

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Speaker 3: only saying this because I met a few, there also

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Speaker 3: are some evil chickens. There are some like villainous like

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Speaker 3: dommer level chickens. It's weird, but it does indicate, you know,

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Speaker 3: that point about their emotional complexity. The oldest what we

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Speaker 3: will call chicken bones discovered so far. They come from

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Speaker 3: a place in Thailand, in central Thailand named bond Non Watt,

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Speaker 3: and they show up around the time ancient farmers started

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Speaker 3: growing and cultivating rice. So our best guess is this

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Speaker 3: rice cultivation led to rice seeds being scattered around, right,

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Speaker 3: and this was amazing for the wild jungle fowl that

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Speaker 3: you mentioned earlier and old, because that thing was basically

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Speaker 3: just play in the lottery every time at peck in

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Speaker 3: the dirt, hoping it came up with something it could eat.

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Speaker 3: And now all of a sudden, yes, yeah there's literal

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Speaker 3: pay dirt. That was really nice. Yeah, there's literal pay dirt.

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Speaker 3: And the birds begin nesting at the edges of these

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Speaker 3: cultivated rice fields, which means over time they slowly acclimate

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Speaker 3: to humans and can currently humans acclimate to them. Fast

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Speaker 3: forward thousands of years. Yeah, chickens got the raw end

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Speaker 3: of the deal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've played Minecraft. If you have seeds around,

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Speaker 2: those chickens will hang around you, and if you give

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Speaker 2: them some seeds, they get little hearts over their heads

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Speaker 2: and they procreate.

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Speaker 4: Oh that's sort of like given the dog a treat

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Speaker 4: and legend of Zelda or in Breath of the Wild,

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Speaker 4: and give the dog an apple and it starts to

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Speaker 4: like emote these hearts and then it'll follow you around.

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Speaker 3: Oh, just for a rule of three, if you cast

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Speaker 3: speak to animals and boulders gate three, then you can

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Speaker 3: also befriend dogs and owl bear. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: spoil it too much a strange ox Okay, a strange

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Speaker 3: I don't want to spoil like it's a whole fricking storyline.

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Speaker 5: Man, I've got it. I'm gonna you know what I'm gonna.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna start digging back into it after I start

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Speaker 4: civilization whatever the new one is, and after I hunt

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Speaker 4: a few more monsters and monster hunter wilds, which is

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Speaker 4: a lot of fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right. We also know in the in the

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Speaker 3: large sense, there's there's an evolutionary dilemma. So being domesticated

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Speaker 3: by humans on this planet means that your species will

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Speaker 3: become one of the most prolific species on the planet. Right,

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Speaker 3: Like cows are everywhere, you know, chickens are everywhere, But

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Speaker 3: as an individual instance of that species, your life is

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Speaker 3: probably gonna suck, unless you're like maybe a dog or

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Speaker 3: we could bracket cats. They sort of domesticated themselves. But

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Speaker 3: the weird fact going into this industry of consuming chickens

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Speaker 3: is that chicken and rice was probably always a thing.

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Speaker 3: Logically it may have been. It probably was the world's

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Speaker 3: first chicken dish, and even then we see a pattern

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Speaker 3: from these studies. It takes a while for humans to

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Speaker 3: think of these jungle foul, even after they're domesticated as

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Speaker 3: a food source. First, what we see is that for

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Speaker 3: a long time people looked at them as sort of

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Speaker 3: a real life Pokemon flex. I got a living alarm clock.

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Speaker 3: Look at these feathers, dog, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and the eggs, the eggs I guarantee were

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Speaker 2: cultivated before the actual chicken meat. Who figured the eggs

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Speaker 2: are useful in so many different ways?

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Speaker 3: It's a returning investment too.

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Speaker 4: But who figured that out these weird orbs, that these

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Speaker 4: little guys poop out, that we could do something with them.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I know trial and error and all that,

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Speaker 4: but I always wonder who first cracked an egg and try.

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Speaker 2: Eating it raw?

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Speaker 4: And I was like, Okay, that's kind of gross. What

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Speaker 4: if I had he it up over a fire? And

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Speaker 4: now it's this lovely, you know, pillowy delicacy. It's the

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Speaker 4: mushroom question It is, really is what's our rate of attrition?

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Speaker 4: How many bad eggs did people encounter?

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Speaker 3: First?

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Speaker 4: Well, and also, you know you're not supposed to eat

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Speaker 4: raw eggs, But isn't that more a product of modern farming?

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Speaker 4: Like do you think back then it would have been

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Speaker 4: totally fine to eat raw eggs, or were they still

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Speaker 4: prone to having some sort of food borne illness.

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Speaker 3: That's an interesting question.

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Speaker 2: I just I don't know.

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Speaker 5: It's maybe the wrong one for right now, but it's

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Speaker 5: just I don't know.

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Speaker 4: It's the whole trajectory of how we got to eating eggs.

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Speaker 5: It's fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Well, I just.

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Speaker 2: Imagine if you have greens around, like lots of greens

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Speaker 2: that are being produced, no matter what type it is, right,

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Speaker 2: even if it's rice, and you've got an egg product

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Speaker 2: like or just an egg, and you combine that in

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Speaker 2: just as an experiment and realize, oh, this is a

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Speaker 2: really good binder behind.

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Speaker 3: Because yeah, the harsh reality is that most people were starving.

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Speaker 3: You know, food security was a huge concern. Also, it

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Speaker 3: makes me think, while we're just while we're gaming this out,

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Speaker 3: there may have been some pivotal moment where the rat

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Speaker 3: would have replaced the chicken grains edges of fields tolerance

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Speaker 3: for humans, the egg was probably the deciding factor. Honestly,

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Speaker 3: the egg and the slightly at that point larger size.

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Speaker 5: Interesting.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, other little rodent like creatures like the guinea

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Speaker 2: pig became a major source of food in other places

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Speaker 2: right that hang out where the grains hang.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we see a pattern and we can't answer

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Speaker 3: why nature or why this version of reality swung to

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Speaker 3: one pivot point or the next, but we can tell

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Speaker 3: you over really give you fast forward through thousands of years.

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Speaker 3: Can we get a fast forward queue thousands of years?

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Speaker 3: There is a domesticated chicken industry. Big Chicken is real.

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Speaker 3: It's global. The domesticated chicken spread far and wide. We're

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Speaker 3: talking about multi like a multi, multi billion dollar initiative.

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Speaker 3: It's across the world anywhere you go. Right, Chicken is

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Speaker 3: for people who eat meat. Chicken is one of the

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Speaker 3: most accessible versions of protein.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 3: It's one of the few that is not explicitly banned

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Speaker 3: in other meat eating religions, like you can't eat pork everywhere,

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Speaker 3: you can't eat beef everywhere, you can't eat certain shellfish everywhere.

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Speaker 3: But unless your religion for bids animal products at all,

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Speaker 3: chicken's fine.

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Speaker 5: Chickens good to go, baby, exactly.

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Speaker 2: We just need, you know, millions and millions and millions

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Speaker 2: of them, because there's some hungry people in this planet.

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Speaker 3: Right, billions. Yeah, which brings us to the chicken industry today.

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Speaker 3: Maybe kick some stats.

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Speaker 5: Let's do do that.

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Speaker 4: But I really quickly just think it's appropriate to bring

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Speaker 4: up this little reference right before the section.

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Speaker 5: You guys know the rapper Rick Ross, Yes, which one? Oh?

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Speaker 3: No, the the not the namesake.

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Speaker 5: I think that's right.

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Speaker 4: Rick Ross is an Atlanta rapper and entrepreneur, and he

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Speaker 4: owns a massive two hundred and thirty five acre estate

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Speaker 4: in Fayetteville, Georgia that he calls the Promised Land, and

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Speaker 4: he's into all kinds of farming, including bison. And I

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Speaker 4: think he's either considering getting into chickens or he already has.

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Speaker 4: But there's this excellent interview with them on Vince Staples

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Speaker 4: podcast where he's describing being surrounded by chicken cages and

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Speaker 4: chickens roaming around.

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Speaker 5: He goes, it's there everywhere, going, you know, quack quack

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Speaker 5: quack quack quack quack.

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Speaker 3: No, Yeah, that makes sense. He's he is the same

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Speaker 3: guy who invited people to just d m him if

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Speaker 3: they want parachute into his estate in I want to

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Speaker 3: say Florida, but it may have been Faettville as well. Well.

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Speaker 4: I take to tell you, Rick Ross, but chickens don't

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Speaker 4: say quack, they say buck.

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Speaker 2: Do you think he's okay. He's either never seen or

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Speaker 2: been in the chicken areas of his estate, or he's

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Speaker 2: in fact raising ducks.

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Speaker 5: Unclear. Unclear.

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Speaker 4: Well, so, as of twenty twenty four, the United States,

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Speaker 4: with Rick Ross contributing to this, potentially had an inventory

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Speaker 4: of over five hundred and twenty million chickens and two

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Speaker 4: hundred and eighteen million turkeys. The market leader for poultry

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Speaker 4: production in the United States is, of course Tyson. Maybe not,

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Speaker 4: of course. I just think they've got a big presence

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Speaker 4: here in this part of the country, for sure, These

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Speaker 4: chicken plants with over forty three billion US dollars in sales.

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Speaker 2: WHOA, don't forget per due farms, guys, don't forget all

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Speaker 2: the other.

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Speaker 4: To be confused with produce far mart that's pretty far right.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, there are a couple other players in the game.

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Speaker 3: Tyson is the big one, but there is a pantheon

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Speaker 3: in the United States at least. And now we have

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Speaker 3: to look at the difference between how these how these

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Speaker 3: chickens exist. They're laying chickens which make eggs until they're slaughtered,

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Speaker 3: and then there are broiler chickens, which are grown for

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Speaker 3: a short time to an enormous size and then slaughtered.

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Speaker 3: Broiler chickens are the majority source of US chicken meat.

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Speaker 3: There's sixty seven percent of all poultry sector sales, that's

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Speaker 3: per the USDA. And there is an explosive trend here.

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Speaker 3: In less than sixty years, the number of broiler chickens

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Speaker 3: has skyrocketed. There were five hundred and eighty million annually

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Speaker 3: in the nineteen fifties. They're like nine billion now in

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Speaker 3: more recent years. So that's a that's a percentage raise

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Speaker 3: of about fourteen broiler chickens.

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Speaker 5: Think your cost co Rotisseri guys.

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Speaker 2: Right, well, no, any chicken that is raised for meat,

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Speaker 2: that's what the broilers are. And all chicken well, ninety

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Speaker 2: five percent of the chickens raised for meat in this

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Speaker 2: country are represented by the National Chicken Council, you guys.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yes, we were talking about this off air. I'm

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Speaker 3: I've been reading a lot of their works, the National

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Speaker 3: Chicken good writing.

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Speaker 2: They've got a great YouTube channel, y'all. It's and this

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Speaker 2: is this is real. The National Chicken Council aka Big Chicken.

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Speaker 2: They have a YouTube channel with the It is at

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Speaker 2: Chicken Roost Roost two four four six, that is their

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Speaker 2: YouTube channel.

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Speaker 4: And this isn't which you may be consider in and

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Speaker 4: of itself a lobby but they employ lobbyists, right, isn't

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Speaker 4: that the edge?

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Speaker 7: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's it would call itself

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Speaker 7: a trade organization or a trade group, but it is

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Speaker 7: extremely active in you.

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Speaker 3: Know, in located streets. Yeah, very much so.

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Speaker 2: Their their corporate offices are five blocks from the White

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Speaker 2: House lawn and uh, they're right over there in the

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Speaker 2: same place with stuff like the NAACP in Washington, DC,

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Speaker 2: like the same block of places, the American Chemical Society

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Speaker 2: and the Natural Resources Defense Council, a bunch of these,

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Speaker 2: like I guess, trade groups lobbyists that hang out and

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Speaker 2: are able to literally walk over to the White House

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Speaker 2: or to Congress and just have a little shit chat

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Speaker 2: about that bill or whatever.

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Speaker 3: And we've spent time in that neighborhood.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of like if you're in the US, you

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Speaker 3: might run into this in your own town. It's kind

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Speaker 3: of like how multiple car dealerships will be on the

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Speaker 3: same street because like attracts like you could argue, but

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Speaker 3: for them, proximity is always key in lobbying. And this

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Speaker 3: is just the US we're not even talking about China,

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Speaker 3: which is the largest producer of chicken and poultry products

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Speaker 3: in the world. Together, the US and China represent about

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Speaker 3: a third of all the global poultry production, which is

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Speaker 3: a terrifying stat when you think about it. It is

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Speaker 3: not even really counting the eggs. That's a whole other

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Speaker 3: bag of badgers. What we see here already is an

404
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Speaker 3: economic leviathan, and it comes with some advantages. It comes

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Speaker 3: with some consequences if we're beaten fair. First, the first

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00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 3: pro or advantage is that chicken is affordable, so for

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Speaker 3: countless people throughout history, throughout recent history, and throughout the

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Speaker 3: world today. This means you can have a source of

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Speaker 3: protein for your family that you may not have been

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Speaker 3: otherwise able to afford. That's the biggest win for humans,

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Speaker 3: make no mistake about it, food security. The chicken industry

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Speaker 3: represents a tremendous leap forward in that regard. Yet I

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Speaker 3: would argue a dangerously imperfect leap forward.

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Speaker 5: Oh for sure.

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Speaker 2: For sure, guys, let's talk about units of meat per meal,

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Speaker 2: like when we're thinking about an animal, just thinking about

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Speaker 2: the number. We were talking about the number of chickens

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Speaker 2: that get slaughtered, right number that are raised and then

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Speaker 2: gets slaughtered and then consumed. One broiler chicken theoretically is

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Speaker 2: enough food to feed a family of four, maybe five

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Speaker 2: even maybe you know you.

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Speaker 3: Got a little tyson sitting there in the high chair.

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Speaker 2: Sure, well, I'm thinking the big old, big old broiler.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, little Tyson.

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Speaker 5: Tyson's the boy's name human.

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Speaker 2: Okay, a little Tyson broiler.

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Speaker 4: But he gives his own little Tyson broiler for a

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Speaker 4: little Tyson.

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Speaker 8: A great idea, but just theoretically, that one chicken is

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Speaker 8: like a meal, right, so one of theoretically three that

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Speaker 8: are going to be had throughout a day.

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Speaker 2: You know how standard household or whatever you want to

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Speaker 2: you know, allocate those averages for in the United States.

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Speaker 2: But if you slaughter a single pig, let's say, I

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Speaker 2: mean that's food for a weeks.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, depending on your preservation methods too.

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Speaker 5: Are we are we talking?

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Speaker 4: Does this stuff line up with the idea of servings

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00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 4: or are these kind of unrelated?

440
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: This is thought, This is just thinking off. I mean, yeah,

441
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: maybe number of servings are the the number of animals

442
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 2: that need to die in.

443
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 5: Order for meals to be had?

444
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 3: Right?

445
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: Okay, so like just when we think about the number

446
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: of chickens that have to be raised and killed to

447
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 2: meet the same number of meals basically that you would

448
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: get if you were instead just slaughtering.

449
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 3: Cows or meet the number of meals.

450
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:57,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm serious.

451
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 3: Quote, yeah, that's true, right right, and also what's the

452
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: environmental footprint? Do check out our episode on the livestock

453
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,440
Speaker 3: industry where we talked a little bit more about beef

454
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 3: and pork. We we have to tell you that pro

455
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: that advantage at the very beginning, so we know why

456
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 3: the Humble Chicken became sort of a hellen of food

457
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 3: security Troy, you know, and launched a thousand dinner tables,

458
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: as they would say. We also need to admit that

459
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 3: this comes with a panoply of consequences, a rogues gallery really,

460
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: of problems that are ethical, that are practical. Some of

461
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 3: them are immediate, some of them are long standing, and

462
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 3: some are on the horizon in a way that can

463
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 3: be scary to think about, and others still verge into

464
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 3: downright conspiracies. So we're gonna pause for word from our

465
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 3: sponsors and we come back. We're gonna ask as honestly

466
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 3: and as fairly as we can what are some of

467
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 3: the cons a Big Chicken.

468
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 2: HPAI, Hewlett Packard artificial intelligence.

469
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy, all right, First things first, obviously,

470
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 3: we're talking about the dark side of Big Chicken. Whether

471
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,679
Speaker 3: you're a huge Chick fil A fan, whether you have

472
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: your favorite chicken wing spot, or whether you're an avowed vegan,

473
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 3: there's no denying that because of this industry, life absolutely sucks.

474
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 3: For chicken. Life is just terrible. You know, it's genocide.

475
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 4: Even though, like you know, best of circumstances, the cage

476
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 4: free eggs that you pay extra for or whatever, the

477
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 4: free range chicken. That's all just like the path to death,

478
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,640
Speaker 4: like no matter how you slice it.

479
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 5: Okay, pun may be a little intended.

480
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, a but and this is a yes but section.

481
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: Sorry guys. Yes, but there are things changing a little

482
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 2: bit right for chickens. We'll get into that. For all

483
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: the animals, there are some things that theorety theoretically could

484
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 2: make their lives better before they get slaggered.

485
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 5: Maybe.

486
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And to learn why those changes exist, let's look

487
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 3: at the current and past state.

488
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 5: Right.

489
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 3: Why the changes Matts alluding to are even on the

490
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 3: proverbial dinner table, right, So factory farming incorporates and institutionalizes

491
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 3: a collection of horrific methods conditions imposed on chickens. They

492
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 3: kind of have a disposition matrix toward what creates the

493
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: largest amount of profit and everything that's happening, everything that

494
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 3: you're about to hear, which may make some of us,

495
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,239
Speaker 3: some of us in the crowd on comfortable, It is

496
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 3: all in the name of not malevolence, but in the

497
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: name of squeezing a bit more profit out of that

498
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 3: bottom line out of every single bird. And it starts

499
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,239
Speaker 3: with culling. So it is currently common for producers to

500
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 3: get a big, a big new generation of chickens, to

501
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 3: identify all the newly hatched male chicks and to immediately

502
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: kill them to in older days, to just grind them up.

503
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: The logic being these guys don't lay eggs and they

504
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: used to grow too slowly, so a lot of them

505
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: would be ground up and then fed back to the chickens.

506
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 5: That seems safe.

507
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: I don't know, it just seems like potentially the way

508
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 4: that you would get like super pathogens or something.

509
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: Yes, nice foreshadowy there, I mean, this doesn't be life

510
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 3: is great for the survivors of that first cull egg

511
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 3: laying chickens. Let's say you become a laying chicken. You

512
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 3: are still in these brutal, very cramped conditions pretty often

513
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,239
Speaker 3: because cage free, by the way, doesn't mean what a

514
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 3: lot of people assume it means, and an egg laying

515
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 3: chicken will often get debeat to eliminate inter chicken violence,

516
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 3: which is otherwise a hilarious phrase, but it's very real.

517
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 4: Burned off if I'm not mistaken, right, isn't it like

518
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 4: a process clipped off?

519
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 5: Yeah?

520
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 4: Okay, for some reason, I've seen a process involving some

521
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: sort of very like hot brand of some kind or

522
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 4: like I don't know, maybe.

523
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 3: I could see Yeah, I mean it differs. It's always

524
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: going to be what's the cheapest thing for that producer, right,

525
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: And once those once those beaks are clipped or burned,

526
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 3: otherwise maimed or removed, you'll see a lower level of

527
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: aggression and cannibalism, which would in other circumstances be widespread,

528
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 3: whereas our pal Frank would say wide rife in this

529
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: very contaminated, cramped environment. The reason that works is because

530
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 3: it puts the chicken in a state of chronic pain

531
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: for the rest of its short life. So if it attacks,

532
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 3: if it like it hurts to eat. Imagine your main

533
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 3: way of aggression, right, or sustenance was your mouth. And imagine,

534
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 3: you know, shortly after you were born, somebody messed with

535
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: your jaw and your mouth and your nose such that

536
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 3: it hurts to breathe, it hurts to eat. You're an

537
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 3: intense pain if you try to bite. That's why it works.

538
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: Now, these growers we're talking, we're talking about this is

539
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 2: happening for chickens that lay eggs, like lay yeah, okay,

540
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: so but those are not the broiler chickens, right, those

541
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 2: are different. Yeah, those aren't the ones that humans are

542
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 2: going to eat. Generally, those are for a whole separate purpose.

543
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: Those will tend to have a longer life span, still

544
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: brutally short, but they'll tend to have a longer lifespan.

545
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 3: We're right. Their eggs, Yeah, they get killed kind of

546
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 3: in the pecond wave, and all of these creatures live

547
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 3: a much shorter life than they would live naturally or

548
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 3: in you know, your backyard.

549
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 4: I did google chicken beak removal hot, and there is

550
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: a thing for sale online. It is called a chicken

551
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 4: beak breaker hot. Beak machine automatic beak breaker, and it

552
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 4: basically has a blade that is heated up to red

553
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 4: hot and then the the beak is put in there

554
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 4: and it's it's clipped off using it because it cauterizes it,

555
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 4: you know, after it clips these that can't be very

556
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 4: pleasant at all.

557
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: No, again, it gives them chronic pain for the rest

558
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 3: of their lives when they clip that beak. This doesn't

559
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 3: even Oh, we got to talk about the size right

560
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 3: earlier mentioned units of food right end user. So we

561
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: mentioned earlier that modern chickens, now, if you look at them,

562
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: they're going to be way bigger than those jungle foul

563
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: of ancient Southeast Asia. Part of that is due to

564
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: injection of growth hormones juice in the birds. That's illegal

565
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 3: in the US and Australia currently. But another part of

566
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 3: the general size disparity comes from something it's even a

567
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 3: little crazier. It's eugenics. Intense breeding regimens.

568
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 4: So couple with these extremely cramped conditions you can barely

569
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,560
Speaker 4: call a life. This can also result in chickens that

570
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 4: are so overweight and burdened by their own heaths that

571
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 4: they are essentially you know, in invalid I guess, for

572
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 4: lack of a better term, they are not able to

573
00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 4: move around and operate like a normal creature would. The

574
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 4: level to which they are plumped up, I guess you

575
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 4: could say essentially is like completely burdening them at all times.

576
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 5: They can't even support their own weight.

577
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's not their choice. Also, it's a short life.

578
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 3: It's filled with terror. And we were talking about this earlier.

579
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 3: It bears emphasis. Anyone who has raised chickens on a

580
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 3: small scale, A lot of our friends or family, or

581
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: even coworkers outside of that, can confirm chickens do have personalities,

582
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,240
Speaker 3: can experience emotions, which means they know when stuff sucks

583
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 3: right just like you, they have a problem with it.

584
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 3: Even the more humane operations out there will use slaughtering

585
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: alternatives like decompression or gas chambers or something called the

586
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 3: kill cone. The kill cone is where you take a chicken,

587
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 3: you stuff it headfirst down a funnel, and then you

588
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 3: pop the head through the opening at the bottom of

589
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: the funnel, and then you slash their neck and then

590
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 3: bleed out. Those are examples of the more humane alternatives

591
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 3: to the usual factory slaughters. So the more you learn

592
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 3: about this industrial level poultry production the worst. It becomes

593
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 3: a point we were talking about a little bit off air.

594
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 3: In a lot of animal rights literature, the people who

595
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: would be the polar opposites of the trade lobbies or

596
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 3: the thing with the autonomy big chicken. A lot of

597
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 3: those groups vilify the human poultry producers as some kind

598
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 3: of callous, unfeeling monster. But that could not be further

599
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 3: from the truth that people are doing the work, by

600
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 3: which we mean not the lobbyists, not the executives and

601
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: the c suite and whatever. The people on the ground

602
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 3: are often forced to resort to these barbaric practices just

603
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 3: a stay of float in a market that continually pushes

604
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 3: for the bottom line. What we're saying is, in short

605
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 3: life often sucks for the poultry producers as well. And

606
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: I think that's something a lot of our you know,

607
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: with the best of intentions, a lot of animal rights

608
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 3: activists forget.

609
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, we do have to remember that there

610
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 2: are I don't even know how to say this, because

611
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: everything we're talking about here is a reality, like especially

612
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: when we're getting into the industrial size, like huge chicken

613
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 2: production situations. I watched a video that was put out

614
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: there in twenty fourteen by the National Chicken Council that

615
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: is going through the slaughter process and the line when

616
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: chickens are being processed into meat, which is just horrifying

617
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 2: to think about. But they, I mean, they use the

618
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 2: term that's an industry term, the evisceration line. And if

619
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: you know what that word means, it's like to have

620
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 2: basically the insides removed, your internal organs taken out of

621
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 2: a body. That is what they go through. And you

622
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: they show you, like, this is how it works. All

623
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 2: these chickens that are hanging by their feet after they

624
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: have been you know, killed systematically on this line and

625
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: this giant line of chickens been killed then through their backsides,

626
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 2: all of it. It just is a claw that goes

627
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 2: in and evisceraates them and then they get vacuumed out

628
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 2: and cleansed off with this stuff. Oh what is it called.

629
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: It's a it's a chemical chlorine wash. It's parasitic acid,

630
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 2: is what it's called. It's hydrogen peroxide and acetic acid

631
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,760
Speaker 2: combined together. It's certain concentrations. According to them, the hydrogen

632
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,719
Speaker 2: peroxide becomes water and the acetic acid is the same

633
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 2: thing that's in vinegar. So theoretically it's a wash that's

634
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: safe and it kills off all the microbes and now

635
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: you're good to go with your chickens. It's just a

636
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: horrifying thing to watch the kill process, right, But there

637
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 2: are other things in place thanks to things like the USDA,

638
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 2: like the Certified Organic label that we're going to talk

639
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: about a little bit, but something like that that gets

640
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 2: slapped on a meat product, lets you know as a

641
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 2: consumer that theoretically somebody from a government organization went to

642
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 2: that farm and certified that those chickens are able to

643
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 2: roam around freely. It's not some cage system you know

644
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: that's like free range, but still inside a little cage.

645
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: It certifies that, no, those chickens actually go out onto

646
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 2: this farm and graze and then come back in, and

647
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: that's what you're eating. It's not the chicken in these

648
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 2: horrifying conditions that we're talking about in these larger industrial versions,

649
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: which is again a step forward towards good potentially, but

650
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 2: in the end, everybody's getting viscerated no matter how you lived.

651
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 4: As you said before, a Matt, did you see that

652
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 4: John Oliver piece from last week tonight on this Yeah,

653
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 4: Ben pointed it out in the outline here. I actually

654
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 4: didn't catch it originally, but saw this clip the Bens,

655
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 4: referring to John Oliver and his writers really look deeply

656
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 4: into the notion of contract farming. He describes it, I

657
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 4: think very aptly as basically a chicken daycare company where

658
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 4: baby chicks are brought into an independent farm, then they're.

659
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 5: Picked up a month later for processing.

660
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 4: Ninety seven percent of chickens, they point out, and the

661
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 4: piece are raised this way in the United States, and

662
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 4: the big companies actually also own the feed as well

663
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,160
Speaker 4: as the feed bins, so there's this really interesting feedback

664
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 4: loop or kind of monopoly kind of situation going on.

665
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 4: The independent farmers, though, are responsible for literally everything else,

666
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 4: the property, the equipment of the labor, all of that.

667
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 4: But then you know they're under the thumb of this

668
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 4: big chicken because of the proprietary nature of the process

669
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 4: that they have on lock.

670
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 5: Is that about right, Ben, Yeah, it's like a.

671
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 3: Share crapping, but with chickens, well not quite, because they

672
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 3: do own the property, they're they're on the hook. These

673
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,959
Speaker 3: contract farmers, who often get vilified or contract producers, they're

674
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 3: liable for the majority of the cost involved, right, and if,

675
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 3: for instance, there is some kind of regulatory violation that

676
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 3: occurs or that they get popped for, they're on the

677
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: they're they're on the kill cone for that as well.

678
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 3: We see a ton of producers who are teetering on

679
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: the edge of financial ruin, underwater on loans or debts,

680
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 3: usually transactions that they depended on to get up and

681
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 3: running in the first place, or that they relied upon

682
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 3: as the market cyclically waxed and waned. Right, Because farming

683
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 3: and livestock production, it's always been a matter of margins,

684
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: you know, and you're dependent upon a lot of factors

685
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 3: that are simply beyond your control. So it doesn't stop there.

686
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: Worker safety and worker rights in general often fall to

687
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: the wayside in these contract farming arrangements. This system the

688
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 3: Big Chicken has ox fan thank you, thank you. Ox.

689
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 3: Fam America found that a lot of slaughterhouse workers, in

690
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 3: some exhaustive studies, despite having you know, regulatory bodies show

691
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 3: up and certify stuff, a lot of these slaughterhouse workers

692
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 3: were not getting brakes to the point where they had

693
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 3: to wear diapers. They were getting paid below minimum wage,

694
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 3: and some entities were purposely targeting underage folks, undocumented people,

695
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 3: people who can't fight back as potential employees so that

696
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 3: they could keep those expenses low and push to keep

697
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 3: those profits high.

698
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 4: All right, why don't we take a little breather here

699
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 4: this heavy stuff, have a word from our sponsor, and

700
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 4: then we'll be back to find out more about some

701
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 4: of the pitfalls of this massive industry.

702
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 3: And we've returned. Another harsh reality of why life can

703
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 3: be terrible for poultry producers and employees is this. Accidents

704
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 3: and serious injuries We're talking like amputations are widespread in

705
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 3: this endeavor. Folks working in this industry on the ground

706
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 3: are three times more likely to suffer serious harm in

707
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 3: comparison to the average employee in the United States. There

708
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 3: was an OSHA study in twenty fifteen that found on

709
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 3: average employees of Tyson Foods, at least one is injured

710
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 3: such that they have to amputate a finger or limb

711
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 3: per month. Per month, there's at least one person who

712
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 3: you know officially gets the street game.

713
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 4: Nine fingers, I mean, just pretty horrific. Back to that,

714
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 4: you know, automatic beak removed room machine. If if I'm

715
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 4: remember incorrectly, and I've seen this process you know from

716
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 4: film clips, there are workers that kind of have to

717
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 4: hold the chicken up to this device to have their

718
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 4: beaks removed. You know, you can just depend on the

719
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 4: chicken to do it themselves, and I can imagine that

720
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 4: could be really, really dangerous. I mean, you're holding a chicken,

721
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,240
Speaker 4: you know, up close to this machine that's like chomping

722
00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 4: off their beak. I mean, that's just one of the

723
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 4: many dangerous pieces of equipment these folks are interfacing with

724
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,240
Speaker 4: on a regular basis.

725
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, when you're in the actual slaughterhouse, when all of

726
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 2: that stuff's going down there, I mean is large, dangerous,

727
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 2: sharp implements that are a part of the factory, right

728
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: and people have got to service those things, and it's

729
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: just continually moving. There are workers that have large knives

730
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 2: just at hand at all times when they're there. Even

731
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,800
Speaker 2: the USDA inspectors when they're on the line, they've got

732
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 2: you know, large knives to to check out and inspect things.

733
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 2: And then there are people that are constantly just cutting

734
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,879
Speaker 2: away at the chickens to remove a broken wing or

735
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 2: you know, if there's a chicken that's got uh, it

736
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 2: was weird to think about. There's a chicken that's all

737
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 2: bruised up. They'll take it off the line so that

738
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 2: you don't have to see that, but they can still

739
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 2: use the meat product in something else, you know.

740
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 5: Sure, it's just.

741
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 2: There's there's danger all across the factory system.

742
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. For comparison here, just to give people a

743
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 3: sense of the numbers, some of the some of the

744
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 3: machines are measured by the high amounts of chickens, chicks

745
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: or whatever they can process per minute. So we're talking

746
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 3: wood chippers situations where the machine does not turn off.

747
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 4: And I would imagine math that any of those bruised

748
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 4: chickens that aren't you know, fit for sale as a

749
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 4: as a broiler, you know, for pieces like that, would

750
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,800
Speaker 4: maybe be ground up to being a ground meat product.

751
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 2: Well yeah, that's color can because.

752
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 4: That's all you know, like kind of uniformly use what

753
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 4: is it the pink slime, I believe is what's called.

754
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 3: Oh yeah yeah, or mechanically separated is another key phrase.

755
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 3: You will see it and canned chicken. And look, a

756
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 3: lot of this is that these people, again, people who

757
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,399
Speaker 3: are working in this industry are not bad people. They're

758
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 3: not malevolent. They're trying to keep their jobs. And the

759
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 3: companies that are involved in the meat business at a

760
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 3: high level, at least in the United States, they are

761
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: some incredibly powerful lobbying organizations. They take a lot of

762
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 3: that profit they're squeezing out of the chicken or whatever livestock,

763
00:45:55,400 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 3: and they push it toward influencing politicians and touching policy

764
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 3: in a way that is increasingly advantageous, creating a feedback loop.

765
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 3: We're talking about the American Meat Institute, the National Meat Association,

766
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 3: National Chicken Council. We didn't say it earlier, but you

767
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 3: may recognize their previous work as the National Broiler Council.

768
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,439
Speaker 3: They changed the name because it was a little, well,

769
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 3: too little, too close too much. I like that.

770
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And they specifically represent those broiler chickens, the meat chickens,

771
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 2: not the egg layers.

772
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 3: And there these are powerful groups. They have such a

773
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 3: strong voice in decision making in Washington, and one of

774
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 3: the in they're fairly consistent in their work. They're pushing

775
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 3: back against proposed safety standards. They're pushing back against what

776
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 3: they see as over regulation. And one of their arguments

777
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 3: goes returns to the thing we said at the top

778
00:46:55,719 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 3: of this evening's episode to food security. Right, We're we're

779
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 3: self regulating. The argument goes, we accept a certain amount

780
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 3: of government intervention, but our overall goal is to keep

781
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 3: meat safe and very affordable. We want it to be

782
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 3: cheap for the average consumer. So help us, help you, America,

783
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 3: is their argument at base. This is why chicken is

784
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 3: cheaper than peanuts. Often.

785
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is weird. If you go to the

786
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,560
Speaker 2: National Chicken Council's websites and stuff they do, they advocate

787
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: for that. It's generally advocating for safety, you know, at

788
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: least outwardly. When you look at the press releases and

789
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: stuff that gets put out, it's all about, Hey, the

790
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 2: antibiotics that everybody is so worried about, You don't got

791
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: to worry about that. They explain to you how the

792
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 2: antibiotics that go into chickens are never in the meat products,

793
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 2: and they're tested for that. The USDA protects you as

794
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 2: a consumer against having antibiotics, and the meat products you

795
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 2: receive they do go into the chickens, but there is

796
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: the there are these periods where they're no longer allowed

797
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 2: to have antibiotics, so it'll never get into your body.

798
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 2: It's fine, which I mean is maybe true. And maybe fine,

799
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 2: but it doesn't change It doesn't change the actual issues

800
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: with doing something like using antibiotics in chicken products.

801
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, we're definitely we have to dive into that

802
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 3: because that will bring us to you know, the horizon,

803
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 3: what rough consequence slouches toward Bethlehem in big chicken industry.

804
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 3: When we stay just a moment on the realities of

805
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 3: people in the poultry industry on the ground, it means

806
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 3: that these big groups, these organizations, these corporations, these who

807
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 3: fund the trade groups and the lobbies, they have so

808
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,640
Speaker 3: much leverage over employees. If you make too much trouble,

809
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 3: you raise too much of a ruckus, you ruffle too

810
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 3: many feathers, you can be blackballed. You're not only cut

811
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: out of the chain. You're not only cut out of

812
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 3: the chain, but you are still on the financial hook

813
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 3: for all those loans you took out at the beginning. Right,

814
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 3: the bank that gave you money is not going to say, ah,

815
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 3: you had a conscience, you know what I mean, So

816
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 3: we're going to forgive this loan. They're going to say, hey,

817
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 3: you're late this month, and that will be the extent

818
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 3: of their empathy or observation. Also you know, there are

819
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: harmful impacts on the local community. I was interested to

820
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 3: learn and we found this in previous research on livestock overall.

821
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 3: But you guys might remember back in two thousand and

822
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 3: nine a criminologist studied locations of poultry processing outfits and

823
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 3: crimes rate of crime. Similar studies have been conducted with

824
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 3: the location of military bases and crime. And what this criminologist,

825
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 3: Damie Fitzgerald, found was that slaughterhouse employment, regardless of the

826
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 3: animal involved or being processed, slaughterhouse employment increases total arrest rates,

827
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 3: violent crime, arrest arrest for sexual assault and other sex

828
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: offenses in comparison to other indists.

829
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 4: And this is what like pointing to just the potential

830
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 4: for this being such a traumatic situation to work in

831
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 4: that you would maybe I don't know, be damaged psychologically

832
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 4: by that, or that certain types of people that might

833
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 4: be violent offenders are more attracted to this kind of work.

834
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 5: I'm curious. It's a very interesting step.

835
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 3: Those are great questions in Fitzgerald's work. What we see

836
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 3: is not a not a ton of conclusions past the correlation,

837
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 3: but some of the possibilities that were just mentioned there.

838
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:55,400
Speaker 3: The idea that maybe folks who wouldn't pass a background

839
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,760
Speaker 3: check for another job are getting hired. Maybe that's one. Maybe,

840
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 3: you know, there have also been some interesting studies that

841
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 3: we have in cited here regarding the psychological effects. You mentioned.

842
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 3: It's very that's a very real thing as well. But

843
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 3: what we're bringing this up for is to show that

844
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 3: there does appear to be a discernible impact on the

845
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 3: social environment in which these operations exist. And I think

846
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 3: that's a nice segue to the larger environmental impact the

847
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 3: overall what happens to the land, the air, the sea,

848
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 3: the you know, how much arsenic are you getting, guys,

849
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 3: are you getting enough arsenalup?

850
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: So? Oh man, And really quickly before we hit on that,

851
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 2: I just want to talk about the reason why there

852
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,880
Speaker 2: were there are so many poultry farmers out there in

853
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:48,800
Speaker 2: the world, especially in the United States. And before we

854
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 2: jump in, let's just talk about why there are so

855
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 2: many poultry farmers out there, why there's so much chicken,

856
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 2: specifically chicken for meat being produced in the United States. Specifically,

857
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 2: it is because it takes eighteen to twenty four months

858
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: to raise a cow for meat. It takes six to

859
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,840
Speaker 2: twelve weeks to raise an entire flock of chickens, like

860
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 2: a chicken house filled with chickens six to twelve weeks.

861
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 2: And the reason why farmers are going towards chickens is

862
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 2: because with some of these contracts that they signed that

863
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,880
Speaker 2: we talked about in the beginning, like with the big

864
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 2: with the big producers that then get contracts to raise chickens,

865
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,440
Speaker 2: as well as independent chicken raisers who kind of do

866
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: their own thing and then sell their own chicken via

867
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 2: small farm. Is because you can get paid, let's say

868
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 2: every twelve weeks if you raise flocks of chicken in

869
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 2: that way, if you've got four chicken houses that you're

870
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 2: raising at the same time or maybe in tandem, right,

871
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: you're getting paid pretty consistently. If you're raising a whole

872
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: bunch of cows, it takes you twenty four months potentially

873
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 2: to get paid, right, But because then you're selling your

874
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 2: product at the end period. It's the reason why farmers

875
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 2: are moving towards poultry on huge rates because you're actually

876
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 2: gonna have money coming into the farm consistently, rather than

877
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: hoping that you're gonna have enough money to pay off

878
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 2: all those loans and then pay for your life and

879
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 2: your family and all that other stuff.

880
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 3: Predictable profit on a shorter time window or a shorter

881
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 3: distance between intervals.

882
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that makes sense to all of us.

883
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 2: But it also means that there are so many chickens

884
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: being produced for these purposes and in these ways. It

885
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 2: is having this environmental impact and this societal impact that

886
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 2: we just maybe as a species, didn't expect to be

887
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 2: as large for sure.

888
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 4: So let's go into some more environmental consequences.

889
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,520
Speaker 5: You mentioned arsenic earlier.

890
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 4: Ben Arsnic in case you need a refresher, is a

891
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 4: metallic mineral that's released into soil and water when fertilizers

892
00:53:55,640 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 4: and pesticides are used. Organic farms are less toxic than

893
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 4: the inorganic stuff, but still they are not non toxic

894
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 4: after a certain threshold.

895
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 5: None of this stuff is particularly good for you.

896
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Arsenic was originally put into large scale chicken feed

897
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 3: in the nineteen forties for three reasons. It was supposed

898
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 3: to help fight disease, it was supposed to improve muscle growth,

899
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 3: and it was also this is a weird one to me,

900
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 3: it was supposed to make the meat pinker, So it

901
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 3: was an esthetic agent.

902
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 4: And guys, we are talking about the same arsenic like

903
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 4: the King of Poison, Right, it is the same. It's

904
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 4: just about the concentration. So no matter how you shake it,

905
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 4: this stuff is a historically effective poison, you know, from

906
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 4: like Agatha Christie novels.

907
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dory, our friends at the National Chicken Council have

908
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:56,240
Speaker 3: a statement where they see there's no need to worry.

909
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 3: You know, there's no direct correlation between long term detrimental

910
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 3: health effects like cancer head to arsenic. But it is

911
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 3: also true that for a long time, consumption of chicken

912
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 3: was the primary source of arsenic exposure in US children across.

913
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 2: That's crazy. It's almost like they eat a bunch of

914
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 2: chicken products.

915
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 4: Chicken, the fingers nuggets, you know, part of school lunch programs.

916
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 3: I think it was smart to call them tenders too.

917
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 3: That was great marketing.

918
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, they don't like people don't say.

919
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 4: Fingers is much more specialized the term these days. It

920
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 4: seems like it's not used as broadly because it is

921
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:37,240
Speaker 4: kind of odd.

922
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 5: Because you know, chicken don't really have fingers.

923
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 3: It's like lady fingers. Yeah, chicken fingers is calm. Yeah.

924
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:47,800
Speaker 3: So along with arsenic and specific there are other concerns

925
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:54,360
Speaker 3: about substances excreted by the industry or related we mentioned.

926
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 3: We'll mentioned some of the issues that chickens themselves face.

927
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 3: There's a thing called ammonia burn because when there are

928
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 3: large accumulations of feces, there is this creation of ammonia.

929
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,440
Speaker 3: Right it's concentrated, it has to go somewhere. As a result,

930
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 3: a lot of chickens get respiratory diseases. They get this

931
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,760
Speaker 3: thing called ammonia burn, and it's not exclusive to chickens.

932
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:24,160
Speaker 3: Twenty sixteen, MPR went to North Carolina, one of the

933
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 3: country's largest poultry producing states. At What they found was

934
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 3: people who are locals. As this industry continues to explode

935
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 3: the area, they're starting to at least they're starting to

936
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:42,760
Speaker 3: think they are experiencing ammonia burn because of a weird,

937
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 3: unwanted combo of dead birds, leftover feed and feed waste

938
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 3: and then manure. It all mixes, right, and sometimes they're

939
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,640
Speaker 3: just mass graves that have a stink cloud coming off them,

940
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 3: like the wavy lines in a cartoon or evil fingers

941
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 3: you around.

942
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really bad. There was a Tyson plant right

943
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 2: near where I grew up, and the smell just from

944
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 2: the plant, the processing plant so this isn't even the

945
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 2: growing chickens part that we're talking about with mostly like

946
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 2: feces runoff and all the nastiness that's been discussed, the

947
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 2: smell from a plant of blood yep, and this just death,

948
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 2: oh god. And it's the innards. Remember we're talking about

949
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 2: the evisceration part where all that stuff goes. You might

950
00:57:30,240 --> 00:57:32,480
Speaker 2: save the livers and the gizzards and a couple other

951
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 2: little things for specialty food products, but most of it

952
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 2: is just trash. And when it becomes that waste thing,

953
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 2: where it goes afterwards and how it stored can affect

954
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 2: everybody in And.

955
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 4: There's a big Tyson plant near Athens, Georgia, where I

956
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 4: lived for quite a while, and you know when you

957
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 4: got in that vicinity of that place, it was pretty rough.

958
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And you can smell some of these from

959
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 3: the highway, yeah, the road as you're driving through. There

960
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 3: are a couple of I think we've all in the

961
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 3: Southeast in particular, had those experiences. There are a couple

962
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 3: of times I was able to time my drive to

963
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 3: a few places by when the spell kicked in.

964
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: You like to get away from it, to.

965
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 3: Get away, or when it arrives like switch when is

966
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 3: it time to switch off the outside vents?

967
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:26,439
Speaker 2: Yeah?

968
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, and you can feel it coming, you can

969
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 3: hear it.

970
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 2: But I remember hearing about this specifically when we were

971
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 2: when we covered Dark Waters. I think we mentioned not

972
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 2: that long ago in the show that we just published

973
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 2: it as a classic where there were issues with water

974
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 2: runoff and chemical plants. The other issue that came up

975
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 2: was water runoff with chicken feces specifically.

976
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, it's one hundred percent true. I mean, the

977
00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 3: critics will argue that, let's step back. So proponents, a

978
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 3: lot of people higher up in the industry will argue, look,

979
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 3: we comply with regulations as they stand, and we're helping

980
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people because we are an enormous economic

981
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 3: powerhouse whenever we cluck through town. But the critics on

982
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 3: the other side will say, yeah, you're quote unquote complying

983
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 3: with regulations that you physically hampered. Right, you change the

984
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,959
Speaker 3: rules of the road to your advantage at the consequence

985
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 3: of the public, and of course these cursed birds.

986
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,120
Speaker 4: And now it seems like, I mean, even under the

987
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 4: best circumstances, these regulations are fallible and not nearly robust. Enough,

988
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 4: and it does seem like, given the nature of the

989
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 4: governmental situation that we find ourselves in the United States,

990
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 4: we may see further erosion of these types of regulations

991
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 4: for the benefit of the yield, you know, for the

992
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 4: benefit of the companies producing the stuff and profiting from

993
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 4: this stuff, rather than then for the safety of the

994
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 4: end user.

995
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 3: I'm glad that was said, because that's happening now. That

996
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:11,280
Speaker 3: is true. The relatively defanged regulations that already exist on

997
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 3: federal and state by state levels are being further debaked,

998
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 3: you could say, because they are already standing exemptions from

999
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 3: state odor ordinances, especially in big poultry towns or excuse me,

1000
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,600
Speaker 3: poultry states. And then there are also exemptions from federal

1001
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 3: air emissions monitoring. So the rules are already put at

1002
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 3: like the video game difficulty setting is at easy right now,

1003
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 3: it's at laughably easy for compliance, and that means that

1004
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:50,400
Speaker 3: this stuff gets into the air, into the soil, leaches

1005
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,640
Speaker 3: into the water. And the argument from the industry, again,

1006
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 3: to be fair, has always been something along the lines

1007
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 3: of in our broiler chicken friends say this too. It's

1008
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 3: something like, if you overregulate this industry, you're going to

1009
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 3: damage it. You're going to have very dangerous economic impacts,

1010
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:15,120
Speaker 3: but you're also not going to produce much in the

1011
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 3: way of favorable results. You will have a lot of

1012
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 3: sound and fury signifying nothing. That's an argument critics reject,

1013
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 3: but it is the one the Feds and big companies

1014
01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 3: do seem to embrace. Not putting a not putting a

1015
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 3: chicken in the kill cone of this one. We're just

1016
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,959
Speaker 3: letting you know the two different sides of the spectrum here,

1017
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 3: and I don't know. The other thing to get more conspiratorial,

1018
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 3: we're duty bound to say this is that other stuff

1019
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 3: added in the production line may hold even more dire

1020
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 3: consequences down the road. Diarer the dire risks die.

1021
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 5: Die die.

1022
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:59,120
Speaker 4: The operative word here are we talking about antibiotics and

1023
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 4: that feed loop sure feedback loom created by feeding the

1024
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 4: chickens their ground up cohorts.

1025
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:08,960
Speaker 5: Right? Not great?

1026
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 4: Oh, in terms of the kinds of superbugs that this

1027
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 4: can create.

1028
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, the antibiotics have to be included in some

1029
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 3: level for some of these large scale operations, you know,

1030
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 3: facilitation of rapid weight gait, cutting down on the diseases

1031
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:34,480
Speaker 3: that would otherwise run rampant in those conditions. This widespread

1032
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,480
Speaker 3: use of antibiotics mentioned the word superbug there and all.

1033
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,640
Speaker 3: This widespread use of antibiotics is essentially fast tracking the

1034
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 3: evolution of superbugs of drug resistant things. It's reducing the

1035
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:53,960
Speaker 3: overall effectiveness in antibiotics in humans. And this is an

1036
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 3: across the board effect. This is across the board catastrophic potential.

1037
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:05,480
Speaker 3: If you are vegan, if you are vegetarian, a super

1038
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 3: bug generated by this overtreatment of antibiotics can still affect you.

1039
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter what you eat.

1040
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,439
Speaker 2: It does matter if the antibiotics actually get into you, right,

1041
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 2: And the National Chicken Council says no, they will never

1042
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 2: do that.

1043
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 4: But you know, and y'all, I know, I keep harping

1044
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 4: on this idea of like feeding the chickens ground up chicken,

1045
01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 4: and I guess the issue there can be their self

1046
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 4: contaminating and then the antibiotics, I don't know, like they

1047
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:41,400
Speaker 4: can become less effective or there is something that I've

1048
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 4: definitely seen reported on in terms of that feedback loop

1049
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:47,919
Speaker 4: of the whole system, the close system of it all.

1050
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, So these bugs that we're describing, these infections, their

1051
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 3: generational time window is much shorter than that of a

1052
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 3: larger organism. So when you can continually expose them to antibiotics,

1053
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 3: that would have, you know, would have been an existential

1054
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 3: threat over time. With a lot of antibiotics hitting these

1055
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 3: things again and again, we are, as I said earlier,

1056
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,960
Speaker 3: we're fast tracking the revolution. This is not a theoretical matter.

1057
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 3: This will lead to the creation of superbugs unless there

1058
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:28,200
Speaker 3: are discoveries of new, increasingly powerful antibiotics. There is an

1059
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 3: arms race against infection.

1060
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,680
Speaker 2: And that is specifically talking about the types of bacteria

1061
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 2: and things like salmonella, things that you hear about with

1062
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 2: an outbreak with like a chicken crop or an egg

1063
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 2: crop or something like that that is not tied to

1064
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 2: or to at least not directly tied to avian flu

1065
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 2: and things like that that we're going to get into.

1066
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: That's a whole other bag of badgers on top of this.

1067
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 2: One has to do with the potential biological contamination.

1068
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this realization or growing awareness in the public

1069
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 3: ed to a series of without the three of us

1070
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,840
Speaker 3: sounding dish, it led to a series of feel good

1071
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 3: statements by a lot of end user chicken companies and

1072
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:14,600
Speaker 3: chicken joints. Tyson KFC, our own Chick fil A. A

1073
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 3: lot of these outfits said, all right, no antibiotics ever.

1074
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 3: We're not going to do it. We've heard you the people.

1075
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 3: We'd love to sell you a combo number three, and

1076
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 3: we want you to feel safe buying it. They later

1077
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 3: backtracked their promises and they modified to these more nuanced stances,

1078
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 3: the same way that Google no longer says, don't be evil.

1079
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 3: Tyson used to have no antibiotics ever on the label.

1080
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 3: That's removed. If you see that, now you're buying expired chicken.

1081
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 3: Just so you know, pro tip from the boys.

1082
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we talked about this on I think Strange News.

1083
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 2: Maybe one of the big problems was these major chicken users,

1084
01:05:56,160 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 2: the companies that actually give you an end product of chicken,

1085
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 2: like your KFC's and Chick fil A's, they realized, at

1086
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 2: least the ones in the UK, they realized they could

1087
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 2: not source enough chicken to meet demand that could meet

1088
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 2: those standards that they were theoretically striving for, right.

1089
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 3: And the producers themselves could not afford to make to

1090
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:23,480
Speaker 3: create chickens at that level that the restaurants were looking for.

1091
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 3: So it was it was a weird discrepancy, weird misstep

1092
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 3: Chick fil A also switched the game to something I've

1093
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 3: referenced a couple times here. They switched the game to

1094
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 3: no antibiotics important to human medicine.

1095
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, OK, that's interesting. But so does that

1096
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 2: just mean they're not using antibiotics that you might get

1097
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:48,880
Speaker 2: prescribed if you go to the doctor.

1098
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 4: Because that would be a bad thing if those particular

1099
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:55,600
Speaker 4: ones were weakened or our immune systems no longer responded

1100
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 4: to them.

1101
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:57,800
Speaker 5: Is that the idea of what they're claiming.

1102
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 2: Well, it's a bug. It would be better the buzz

1103
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 2: knew about the medicine you were going to take.

1104
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 3: Also too, it's there's there's a lot of room for

1105
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 3: cognitive parkour in the phrase important to absolute human medic a. Yeah,

1106
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 3: how does truet Kathy feel today? He feels very dead.

1107
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a shame, but he is. He has passed. Uh.

1108
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:30,600
Speaker 3: This so that is its own uh. As said earlier,

1109
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 3: Bag of Badgers Avian flew. Other diseases are different and

1110
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:41,120
Speaker 3: are perhaps even larger threats, depending upon whom you ask.

1111
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 3: So chickens and turkeys, when they get killed, they're usually

1112
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 3: not able to walk that well, they're sick, they're in pain.

1113
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 3: They're often infected with things like E. Coli or as

1114
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 3: earlier mentioned, salmonella, other bacteria that can make human being sick.

1115
01:07:57,720 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 3: And since poultry products are, oh, by the way, the

1116
01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:05,640
Speaker 3: main source of food borne illness in people, I was

1117
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 3: not aware of that these chickens have to get soaked

1118
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 3: with these toxic chemicals mentioned earlier that some remnant of

1119
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:19,000
Speaker 3: those chemicals is consumed along with the flesh. This all like,

1120
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:23,600
Speaker 3: this is all hitting very weak immune systems in the

1121
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 3: individual bird, and that means we're creating fertile soil for

1122
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:33,080
Speaker 3: a possible zoonotic version of av and influenza. It's a

1123
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 3: global concern. As we're recording, South Africa is currently anticipating

1124
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 3: another outbreak. They're not saying it might happen. They're saying,

1125
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:44,679
Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of like what is it tornado

1126
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 3: watch versus tornado warning. They're not saying the conditions are favorable.

1127
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 3: They're saying strap in folks.

1128
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's avian flu that has made.

1129
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:55,759
Speaker 3: The jump right to become zoonotic.

1130
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1131
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 2: Right now in the United States, at least specifically, all

1132
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: of these producers are worried about avian flu in the

1133
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,840
Speaker 2: chickens and in the flocks themselves. That hasn't jumped to

1134
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 2: humans yet, but good golly, it seems like it might

1135
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,320
Speaker 2: happen in any day now the way it is happening

1136
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:17,599
Speaker 2: in South Africa, because we've got a specialized version called

1137
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 2: highly pathogenic avian influenza, and it is taken out flocks,

1138
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 2: especially egg laying flocks, left and right and right now.

1139
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:28,880
Speaker 2: There's a billion dollars that's getting pumped in through the

1140
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 2: USDA to fix all these things. And guys, I want

1141
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 2: to talk about this because it feels really similar to

1142
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:41,200
Speaker 2: is what happened with SARS Cove two with the USDA

1143
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:44,519
Speaker 2: is attempting to get what they're injecting one hundred million

1144
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:49,240
Speaker 2: dollars into government grants to create a new vaccine for

1145
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 2: the chickens, like specifically to vaccinate all the chickens. Guys

1146
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 2: like that, that is crazy. I mean, I mean, it

1147
01:09:59,080 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 2: makes sense, I guess, but I don't know. Something about

1148
01:10:03,080 --> 01:10:05,720
Speaker 2: it weirds me out, and I, yeah, I don't know.

1149
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 2: What do you think?

1150
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 3: Look at I think our next step is to agreed

1151
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 3: it is a worrisome thing. Our next step is to

1152
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 3: look at Congress members overall and see what they're investing in.

1153
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:20,480
Speaker 2: Hmm, that's interesting.

1154
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people made money off antibacterial wipes

1155
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:29,200
Speaker 3: and toilet paper and co vaccine companies.

1156
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. Look into the Secretary of Agriculture Brook Rawlins,

1157
01:10:34,640 --> 01:10:36,519
Speaker 2: because this was a big announcement that came at the

1158
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 2: end of February this year, and it is all about

1159
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:43,080
Speaker 2: trying to fix egg prices. It's like a five pronged

1160
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 2: approach to fix egg prices in America. But all of it,

1161
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 2: all of it goes back to avian influenza if you

1162
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,280
Speaker 2: really look at it, and the billion dollars, most of

1163
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 2: it goes to helping out farmers who are basically, you know,

1164
01:10:55,320 --> 01:10:59,439
Speaker 2: had their livelihoods cut in half or more because of

1165
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 2: this single virus.

1166
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 3: The United Nations clocked this possibility too. In their official

1167
01:11:06,040 --> 01:11:09,400
Speaker 3: statement a while back. They said governments, local authorities and

1168
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 3: international agencies need to take a greatly increased role in

1169
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:17,280
Speaker 3: combating the role of factory farming a little redundant. But

1170
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 3: they have, you know, other stuff to do. They said,

1171
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 3: commerce and live poultry and wildlife markets, which provide ideal

1172
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 3: conditions for the virus to spread and mutate into a

1173
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,400
Speaker 3: more dangerous form. I mean not for nothing did Stephen

1174
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 3: King pick influenzas as the big bad of the stand.

1175
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 3: Its mutation is unpredictable. Its mutation is continual, and it

1176
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 3: moves at a pretty quick pace.

1177
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:48,000
Speaker 2: And there's plenty of chickens for it to move through, right,

1178
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:48,799
Speaker 2: It's got.

1179
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:51,400
Speaker 3: A lot of practice, it's got a lot of different

1180
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:53,040
Speaker 3: fields to play a game.

1181
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,919
Speaker 2: On and have a little tiny jump in its evolution,

1182
01:11:56,080 --> 01:12:00,560
Speaker 2: and then we got something wholly different. Worries me a

1183
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 2: little bit in this legislation that came through. One of

1184
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 2: the things that the USDA is talking about doing in

1185
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:11,960
Speaker 2: this five promonged approach is to remove unnecessary regulatory burdens

1186
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,800
Speaker 2: on the chicken and egg industry to further innovation and

1187
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 2: reduce consumer prices.

1188
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:17,960
Speaker 5: Exactly.

1189
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, the consumer prices are definitely what they're concerned about.

1190
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:27,759
Speaker 2: But like theoretically, just thinking on that a bit, when

1191
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,679
Speaker 2: we think about when people go to the grocery store, now,

1192
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 2: you buy what you can afford, right, and if you

1193
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,559
Speaker 2: can afford a little more, you are likely going to

1194
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 2: choose one of those labels like the USDA Certified Organic.

1195
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 2: That means, you know, the chicken has bypassed a lot

1196
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 2: of the horrific stuff, not all of it, but a

1197
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:49,759
Speaker 2: lot of the horrific stuff that we described in this episode.

1198
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 2: So you use your money to purchase a chicken that

1199
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 2: actually is roaming around somewhere, isn't it.

1200
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:59,440
Speaker 4: Kind of also not a thing as much in other countries,

1201
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,280
Speaker 4: like you don't need to pay extra for the safer food.

1202
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:07,240
Speaker 4: Like I feel like that's definitely the case where it's

1203
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 4: just chicken, his chicken, and you don't have to like

1204
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:12,200
Speaker 4: pay a premium to get the one that probably won't

1205
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 4: kill you or make it right.

1206
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 3: You're also looking at higher food safety standards, but then

1207
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 3: you're also looking at local producers, right, So that is

1208
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 3: part of it, the idea of returning to a less

1209
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 3: centralized supply chain. The issue is what this legislation ignores,

1210
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,599
Speaker 3: which I mentioned before there is it ignores the fact

1211
01:13:37,760 --> 01:13:43,240
Speaker 3: that there is such tremendous financial pressure being put upon

1212
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 3: the further erosion of existing regulations, and the idea that

1213
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 3: the market itself will suddenly prioritize health and safety, which

1214
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:58,080
Speaker 3: is simply it's never been the case and at least

1215
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 3: not the US. Nepton Sinclair was a percent right, there's

1216
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 3: a reason that we mentioned them. So often yep, yep.

1217
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 2: Just something I never learned till we did this episode. Guys,

1218
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 2: it costs an individual farmer somewhere around two thousand, three

1219
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 2: thousand dollars to get your even if it's a small farm,

1220
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:22,240
Speaker 2: to get everything certified organic. And it's because you have

1221
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 2: to pay one of the roughly eighty certifiers, like literally

1222
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 2: individual eighty human beings that can certify your farm kickbacks organic. Well,

1223
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:33,280
Speaker 2: you have to. You have to pay for them to

1224
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:35,960
Speaker 2: fly from wherever they are, say for a couple.

1225
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:37,599
Speaker 3: Of days, gaining per diem.

1226
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you have to do that as a farmer, right.

1227
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 2: That's not the USDA doing it or some other It's.

1228
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:44,920
Speaker 3: Not Tyson doing it for you.

1229
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:46,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, crooking.

1230
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 3: It's a program you can enter in as a contract farmer.

1231
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 3: This is so what will this all lead to? Time

1232
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:58,800
Speaker 3: will tell? The clock is ticking? Is the cock crow

1233
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 3: of disaster on the way? You know, I said the

1234
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 3: line earlier. I just love it. What rough Avian flu

1235
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:09,679
Speaker 3: slouches toward Bethlehem to be bored. What's the end results.

1236
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 3: I think we've been very fair in this episode, or

1237
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 3: we've endeavored to be fair, giving chicken fans and foes alike,

1238
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:19,719
Speaker 3: just an understanding of the issues involved.

1239
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:23,759
Speaker 5: I mean, I love chicken. I eat plenty of chicken.

1240
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,920
Speaker 4: I really enjoy making, you know, slicing it up and

1241
01:15:26,920 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 4: grilling it, putting it on salad, whatever. I know all

1242
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 4: this stuff, and have known all this stuff before even

1243
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,400
Speaker 4: doing this deeper dive here, and I'm still so removed

1244
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 4: from all of that that it doesn't affect my purchasing

1245
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 4: and consuming habits that much. And I know that's the

1246
01:15:43,439 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 4: case for a lot of folks. And I want to

1247
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 4: do better, you know. I mean, it's every time we

1248
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:50,519
Speaker 4: get into this kind of stuff, it makes me want

1249
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 4: to change the way I act as a consumer. But

1250
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 4: it's so easy to just kind of like turn a

1251
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 4: blind eye to a lot of this stuff, where at

1252
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 4: least like willfully deceive yourself about what's going on.

1253
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 3: It's also easy to feel that one is attempting to

1254
01:16:04,360 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 3: empty the ocean with a bucket, you know, Like, what

1255
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 3: difference can an individual make? We'd love to hear from

1256
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 3: people in the industry in particular, you know, what does

1257
01:16:14,160 --> 01:16:16,680
Speaker 3: the public need to know if you're directly connected to this,

1258
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 3: what are are the potential dangers? In your opinion, overstated.

1259
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:25,160
Speaker 3: Are they perhaps underestimated? It'd be great to hear from anyone.

1260
01:16:25,200 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 3: Do we have anything we want to add before we

1261
01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:28,759
Speaker 3: close tonight's episode. I've got one.

1262
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 5: Thing Mary talked about, Rick Ross.

1263
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:36,120
Speaker 2: What are the lives of the chickens you raise?

1264
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 3: Like?

1265
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 5: For real?

1266
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 2: Because we have often heard the horror stories of the

1267
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 2: factory farming. What are your chickens lives like?

1268
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 3: Yeah? And have you met a villainous chicken? I really

1269
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 3: want to hear about this because I only ran into

1270
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 3: two over a long career of meeting various animals and.

1271
01:16:56,880 --> 01:17:00,599
Speaker 2: Were or like hens heads.

1272
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:05,680
Speaker 3: Wow, Okay, it was crazy man anyway, So you can

1273
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 3: always always email us for that. The very last note

1274
01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 3: here is that if you find yourself in our fair

1275
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,960
Speaker 3: metropolis of Atlanta, Georgia, the best chicken wings in town

1276
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 3: are at the local, tell them we sent you, and

1277
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,760
Speaker 3: all the way tell us your thoughts with all these

1278
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 3: questions we've asked, We try to be easy to find

1279
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 3: via email, via telephonic device, and via the lines. You know,

1280
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 3: check your chicken scratch to us on the internet.

1281
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,759
Speaker 4: And pepper wet y'all try it at the local rules

1282
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:39,840
Speaker 4: check us out. Sun very good also good excellent choice, Matt.

1283
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 4: You can find us at the handle conspiracy Stuff, where

1284
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:44,600
Speaker 4: we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group, where you

1285
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 4: too can share your preferred recipe for chicken salad and

1286
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:51,599
Speaker 4: your preferred way of eating a wing in our Facebook group.

1287
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:53,600
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy. You can also find this

1288
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:57,000
Speaker 4: at the handle conspiracy Stuff on x FKA, Twitter and

1289
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 4: on youtubee. We have tons of videos for YouTube check

1290
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:03,880
Speaker 4: out on Instagram and TikTok. However, we are Conspiracy Stuff

1291
01:18:03,920 --> 01:18:05,160
Speaker 4: Show and there are other ways.

1292
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 2: Yes, you can call us. Our number is one eight

1293
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 2: three three STDWYTK. When you call in, give yourself a

1294
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 2: cool nickname and let us know in the message if

1295
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:18,519
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

1296
01:18:19,080 --> 01:18:21,240
Speaker 2: Call in and tell us what your order is from

1297
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 2: the chicken Salad Chick. We're not sponsored by them. I

1298
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:27,200
Speaker 2: just do happen to enjoy their food. Do leg your

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01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 2: chicken salad.

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01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,760
Speaker 5: You have chicken salad back, Okay.

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01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:31,759
Speaker 2: I really am used to do it at the old

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01:18:32,120 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 2: offices in Buckhead all at least once a week. Okay.

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01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 2: You've got three minutes in that message, by the way,

1304
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,000
Speaker 2: so keep it a little short if you can't. When

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01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 2: you're ready, to send us something longer. When you've got

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01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,680
Speaker 2: a lot to say, why not instead send us a

1307
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:46,759
Speaker 2: good old fashioned email.

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01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:49,680
Speaker 3: We are the entity is that read every piece of

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01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 3: correspondence we receive. You don't have to stick to just

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01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 3: one way. There are the rules are there are no

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01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:59,080
Speaker 3: rules of the email. Let us know what your thoughts are,

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01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 3: short or law. Give us the pictures, give us the links,

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01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:03,759
Speaker 3: Take us to the edge of the rabbit hole. Will

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01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,919
Speaker 3: do the rest? Be well aware, yet out afraid. Sometimes

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01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:29,680
Speaker 3: the void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:31,879
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

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01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:36,519
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.