WEBVTT - Keith McNally on meeting Rose Gray, problem-solving at Balthazar, and SNL parties 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.680 You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in Partnership with Montclair. 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.520 I'd been wanting to read Keith mc nally's memoir I 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:11.600 regret almost everything for some time because I know Keith 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:15.480 and I love him. It also has the best title ever. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.599 But the first chapter nearly finished me off. In the 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.079 very first sentence, Keith writes about his attempted suicide in 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.720 Martha's Vineyard. It's painful to absorb as a reader, but 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.080 for a friend it was monumental. It took me some 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:34.559 time to return to the book, but I'm glad I 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.800 did because this is a brilliant book. It's funny, it's 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:43.320 moving and deeply honest. When arriving in New York City, 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:48.120 I go straight to Minetta Tavern before anyone knows I'm there. 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.800 Quite simply, it's my favorite restaurant I know, and I 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.240 love people who work there, and I love the food. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.880 Mostly I go because it's a connection with Keith. From 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.560 the moment Rose Gray and I, two inexperienced women thirty 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:08.399 eight years ago, thought about doing the River Cafe, Rose 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:12.040 made it very clear that everything she knew she had 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:16.120 learned from Keith McNally, and over the last thirty eight years, 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:20.000 Keith has been our mentor, our model, and a hero 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:25.679 of restaurants, The Odeon, Pastith, Balthazar, Lucky Strike, to name 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.640 a few. Keith is here with me today to talk 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.240 about friends and family, writing a book, and most of all, 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.720 regretting almost everything. 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.040 I always say that we make very few decisions. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:40.560 You hear that? 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:43.080 And what do we decide? You know? Nothing? 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:44.679 Nothing? Nothing? 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:45.560 Yeah, I think so? 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:50.960 And so when did you what was your first restaurant working? 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:57.400 Was actually a place called seven Serendipity. I really good 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.360 ice cream, really good back time. 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:03.200 When I was a little my dad, is it still there? 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:08.160 Do they still have those ice creams? Listeners? There was 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:12.639 a little place on the it's still there's a kind 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:13.280 of basic. 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:15.399 Go down. 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.680 That must be like one of the oldest longest restaurants 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:21.560 in New York because I probably went there in the lake. 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:24.600 So you worked at Sarah Dipity is the Boy. 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:30.320 But the first brag I really enjoyed working out place 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:35.720 not in there now called one fift Yeah. Yeah, that's 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.280 when I make the lawn and micros actually because sat 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.640 in Knight Live. If it just opened for three months earlier, 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:48.520 then always have the pasties after passes, they still do. 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:53.440 There were days people were like John Blueshi chav Is 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.320 chasing with the brown certain It was quite bizarre because 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.240 I was in chart at the pasties and so I 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.720 made to meet all the fancy people. 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.680 So you in charge of parties at one f job. 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:12.040 I was also waiting, and then eventually became GM and. 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.240 Then you decided to do well, you didn't decide, But 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.679 how did? Then? How did? Because starting a restaurant is 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:17.920 a big deal, yes it is. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.919 But then I left the one face and got a 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:26.480 green card because I was quite illegal these days. I 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:34.480 was default and mad, so why I was legal for 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:38.000 the four years? And then once I got my green car, 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:43.640 my brother Brian and my girlfriend Lynn decided to look 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.520 for the place because we really got fed up with 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:49.120 working for the other people. 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.320 Did you think there was also a kind of restaurant 0:03:52.320 --> 0:03:53.840 that you missed that you wanted? 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.960 I don't know. First of all, I wanted just a 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:04.680 sandwich shop, but one we found Towers cast up Ceteria 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:09.080 and tried Beckham and that we loved. It was bath placed, 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:14.320 as was larger wrestle. But I always liked everybody enjoyed 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.760 lack of Pol in mid from Paris, so I had 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:20.400 that my mind would beat. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.360 Yeah, what did you love about locker. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.840 Pool because it was open to all hours to all 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:28.159 kinds of people. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.839 I was sitting outside locker Pool with Richard and we've 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.440 been to a movie and it must have been about 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:38.680 twelve thirty and we're very young. We're just doing the pomperty. 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.320 And there was a couple and they it was like 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:43.560 it really was almost one in the morning, and they 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.200 came and the man was on his cane and they 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:49.120 looked kind of elderly at frail and they looked at 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:51.400 the menu, and then they talked to each other and 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.440 then they went inside. And I said, that's how I 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.320 want to get out. I don't want to live in 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:57.440 the country. I don't want to retire. I want to 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.680 be deciding at one o'clock in the morning whether I 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:04.000 should go to local pol or not. I was so. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:08.880 Excited, but it was changeful for me too. I don't 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.880 have to each the two week in the morning. But 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.720 New you cand of if you love me. That's why 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:19.880 I left London. I didn't know the reason, but when 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.760 I've personally arrived in New Yorm, that's one of the 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:26.239 main things I really enjoyed, and I don't necessarily really 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:30.359 want to go every night, just the idea that I 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:30.880 can do. 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.720 You can. Yeah, and so Odeon Why did you call 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:34.240 it Odeon? 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.559 But my brother Brian kind of by their name because 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.080 of Cinema Cinema. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:42.960 Yeah, the Odeon Cinemas, which are chain of cinemas in London. Yeah, 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.960 it's a great name. Was it difficult opening yet? 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.680 No, but it it's costs under one fifty two thousand dollars. No, 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.239 it's just memory cole. Now this one. 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:57.840 Costs US thirty thousand pounds. Rose is to drive up 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:01.640 to like miles away to find some broken down fridge 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:03.040 in Lovely. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:08.080 Maybe by necessity. Yeah, once you got money, you fixed 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.680 province with money. If we don't have the money, it 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.480 must be fixed birth provilence created. 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.159 Yeah, if you have money, you fix it with money. 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:19.240 If you don't have money, you fix it creatively. 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:20.000 Yeah. 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:23.719 Interesting and was an immediate success. 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:28.279 By third night with but because working downtown for so long, 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.080 when you go to know lots of people and the 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:36.039 thing that got off the ground was really normal. Michaels 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.240 and just sat in and I would come and needs 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:43.479 to also drive back in the early eighties, so that 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:49.360 was nineteen eighty was the center of the artwork arters. 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.039 So do you remember Jack's Kansas City or. 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:55.360 It makes its Kansas City? 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.320 Yeah, that was kind of cool because my older sister 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.440 was a painter and a lot of those artists, you know, 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.960 painting alone all days, lonely and you know, you don't 0:07:05.960 --> 0:07:08.240 see anybody, and then they used to go out at 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.600 night and then everybody would meet up at night. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.360 Lots of the painters like Jacks and podk was. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.240 Yeah, yeah, how did you deal with that? I was 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:20.760 drinking a different thing then. 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:25.600 Yes, because we were at the same age basically. Yeah, 0:07:27.080 --> 0:07:27.720 it's different. 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:32.240 Yeah, I think it's interesting how it's changed. Do you 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:33.960 think it was more forgiving then do you think? 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:40.920 Yes, My happiest times was actually with hisself after work 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:48.080 because they treating me as one of the son. But the 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:55.600 drinking beers and then after after doing Catherine Lutemburg, that 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:56.560 was way uptown. 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.160 I remember they have white childs on the floor, is it? 0:07:59.280 --> 0:07:59.480 Yeah? 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:01.880 I remember Luxemburg is still there. 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:06.400 Yeah, I didn't have been there for four to five years, 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.360 carefully members forty one years and after that now and 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.440 after that Lectrige drive, Lucky Stride. 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.600 I remember Lucky Strike. We have just a word before 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:23.960 he said about Balthasar, because Balthasar is completely well. You've 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:27.280 changed cities. I mean you've changed New York. You have 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.280 You've made restaurants that people want to go to to 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:34.480 have fun, to think about themselves. The changes, the whole dynamic. 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.400 Didn't you find when COVID happened and there were no 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.559 restaurants here, restaurants closed, and then when they opened people 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:43.480 were so happy. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:49.000 I remember it's Bouncers. Before COVID, I didn't really understand 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.959 well restaurant makes for people in the city. There's after 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:59.120 COVID I did. But when it reopened Boss, which which 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:06.360 is late March twenty the people with their first night 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:07.920 was crazy. 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:08.920 The dance. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.040 It's like if we hear day. 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:14.280 I agree. I used to say that, you know, if 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:16.640 you ask me what makes the city great, it would 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:20.640 be museums and parks and hospitals and you know, theaters. 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.920 We realized that restaurants are right up. People cried when 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.319 they came back here having a bit away and you 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.280 realize that you go to a restaurant, you bump into 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.839 people you might not Yeah, I've seen. 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:38.560 You get, especially these days with people are online so much. 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:43.120 Yeah, just tell us about Balthazar. What was the idea? 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:47.520 Was in Paris? And then I saw a polk a 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:51.160 barmb for one hundred years ago. It was a huge 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.400 bomb and some ma'am I liked it so much I 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:59.959 bought their potoo and carried the photographs when every day 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.320 for five years and one day and I saw a 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:09.120 space and because them that was so high but lovely bomb. 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.959 That's when I got the I and the needs of 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:20.280 high seeing. Relatively so, there's some paces I saw, hell see, 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:24.280 but when I saw there's a warehouse and swoming students 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:25.880 and then yea. 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.240 And what a great restaurant it is. You know, if 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:31.160 you go there a lot. 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.960 I remember, I'm like to be alone there and we 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:41.120 be on. I also left the music late a night. 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:46.719 Does everybody start dancing? See that? Do you think it's 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:51.160 only a night nightclubs and restaurants you are slightly watching 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.720 people think I'm incredibly out there and very open, but 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.640 actually quite shy. I'm quite quite shy, and so in 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.480 a way it's a good way to see people have people, 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:08.880 but you don't actually have to engage that much. 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:13.439 But we'd like to watch other people not participaly. 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.160 Yeah, I agree. When I when I have a big 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:18.920 party at our house, I always stand at the door, 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.560 and everybody thinks Ruthie is so polite because I see 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.960 every single person who comes in. I say hello to 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:32.959 every person, but I don't have to mingle. Yeah, very similar. 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:36.160 There's a great you know the movie Castablanca. Well, that's 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.200 my favorite line. When people ask me to sit down, 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.920 I always say that. In Castablanca, Ingred Bergmann comes back 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.880 having looking for Rick, you know, and she had an 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.600 affair with him, and they left in Paris in a 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.680 very romantic way. And it's during the war, and she says, 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.720 please tell Rick, I want him to come and sit 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:55.120 with us. 0:11:55.559 --> 0:12:00.679 And the lot. I remember that it never. 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.320 Sits with the customers, you know, And so sometimes I 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.240 say that everything, come and sit down and say rip never. 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.240 Sits allowed line too. 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:11.440 And your children, your son George is on the ball. 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:17.319 Great. The other kids worked barely, luckily they're not intan, 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:18.760 but George. 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:22.319 George is yeah, lovely, lovely guy. No, my kids don't 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:26.240 haven't taken up. Rose's son Ossie worked in the wine 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.640 and managed us and but my again, my family have 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.200 all worked here as waiters. It's nice, lovely. 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.440 One thing about love what you do here. The waiters 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.200 have to do the prep Yeah, I love. 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.880 It, do you? Yeah? It makes some bit. Now we 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.839 have so many people they do. We have preppers as well. 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.680 But that kind of involvement with food is good. But 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:51.120 you do that do they? What time? What time do 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:52.120 your waiters come in? 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.560 So when when the busy day we have to prepare them? 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:02.800 Can do one thousand cover amazing? That a month amazing. 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.280 But it's we have the best job in the world. 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:05.640 I think. 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:06.640 So don't you think we do? 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:13.640 I do know talking to you, to you makes me inspired. 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.840 We have to keep what else? You know? That's what 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.120 I think. I think we have a great and the 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.360 problems are you know, when we have a problem, you 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:22.520 can solve them, you know. 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.320 And I love the jump. I think the jump is 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:30.560 all about how do you solve problem? People saved to 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.000 take to me, but runs about of itself. It doesn't 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:40.959 It's almost closes every day there maybe your problem. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:43.280 They come up to me and say, Ruthie, we have 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.440 a you know, table four is a difficult table, and 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:53.559 I think great, Yeah, imagine estate bottled olive oil chosen 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.720 and bottled for the River Cafe, arriving at your door 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:01.400 every month. Our subscription is available for six or twelve months, 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.120 with each oil chosen personally by our head chefs and 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.600 varying with each delivery. It's a perfect way to bring 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.840 some River Cafe flavor into your home, or to show 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.120 someone you really care for them with a gift. Visit 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:19.120 our website shop the Rivercafe dot co dot uk to 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:27.040 place your order. Now, I wanted to read you this 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.560 piece so you could read it from your book about Rose, 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.560 because it was so moving. Okay, I just read this. 0:14:34.560 --> 0:14:39.480 This is from Keith's book I regret almost everything, and 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.640 this is a piece he wrote about Rose a month 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.840 before we opened. Nell recommended, So that was Nel Campbell, 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:50.200 and this is Keith talking. Recommended an English friend of hers. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.680 A brilliant home cook, she said, but someone who'd never 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:58.240 worked in a restaurant kitchen. While being skeptical of hiring 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.920 a non professional, I was in tre us enough to 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.120 fly to London to meet this woman. Her name was 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.160 Rose Gray. The meeting started awkwardly because we both knew 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:12.720 I was there to discuss food, but we consciously avoided 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:16.800 the subject. Eventually, Rose asked me if I fancied a 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:21.400 bite to eat. Her bite was a grilled, marinated lamb sandwich. 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.360 It was one of the most delicious sandwiches I'd eaten 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.040 in my life. I hired her on the spot. Rose 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.560 planned to stay for two months, but it ended up 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.840 being four. She couldn't continue any longer, she said, because 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.680 she was planning on opening an amateur sounding place in 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.960 London with her friend Ruthie Rogers. After she described her 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.440 cafe by the Thames, I told her it probably wouldn't 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:49.720 work and that she was better off remaining with me 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.760 at Nell's. Do you remember that, Yeah, So tell me 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:54.440 the story. 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:59.000 In one hand, of course, I wanted to be access 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.360 and the other way and I was quite jealous. 0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.920 Oh, it was very It was very very tiny. We 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.200 wanted to be, you know, being Rose. Rose had this 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:15.320 incredible air of confidence and she just an ambition. And 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.440 I remember in the early days she used to get 0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.600 into a taxi, but really early, and she would just 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.640 get in the cab and she'd go the River Cafe 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.200 and I'd go. That poor driver, so he has no 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.040 idea what the River Cafe was. And she could sound 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.080 quite fierce. No, actually she wasn't at all. She was 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.240 so vulnerable and so but. 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:40.160 She was fantastic cook, maybe the best cook every she is. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.680 She was, And she was also a great cook and 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:47.040 a great teacher. She loved teaching these kids and coming in. 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.760 I've never worked in a restaurant at all, and I've 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.280 been a waiter when I was sixteen, and so to 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.880 come in and start this teene. The only good thing 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.320 we had was it was small, and the other good thing, 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:02.440 you know, because sometimes restrictions are good, you westract, I agree. 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:06.440 How do take to realize how good she was and 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:08.359 how the great their food was? 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.359 When when when we just started working, we sat down 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.800 and because again we only had a tiny, teeny little kitchen, 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.680 you know, we had one fire, one grill, and four 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:20.360 hot plates. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:21.760 What was it on your menu? 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:26.480 We had two menus. We had a menu that was sandwiches, 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:28.920 so people could come in and have a sandwich for 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:33.240 two pounds fifty. And then we had a pasta every 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.119 we had one pasta and sandwiches. 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.520 What pasta has changed every day? 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.919 Yeah, the pasta changed every day. So I would do 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.400 one day, I would do the pastas and Rose would 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.960 do the sandwiches, and then one day I would do 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.160 the sandwiches and Rose would do that. We just switched 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.160 every time, and so it was learning. I'd known Rose 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:55.520 because she was Richard's girlfriend really before I even knew it. 0:17:56.200 --> 0:18:00.639 They were about sixteen. They went to some Guildford college 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.199 or something, and then you know, we just we just 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.439 worked together, you know, and we just found we were different. 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.120 We had different approaches, we had different ways of cooking. 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.600 But you know what, well, I think in probably twenty 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:19.120 We started in eighty seven and she died in twenty ten, 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.600 so what's that thirty how many years is that? Twenty 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:26.080 twenty three years? We never had an argument and it 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:29.640 was conscious. My brother, actually, Michael said to me, I'll 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.680 give you one piece of advice if you ever worked 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:34.719 with somebody else, never have an argument, because you'll always 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.639 remember that argument. You'll remember the time, you know, you 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.880 turned around and said, well, I never liked the way 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.439 you come. And mostly it took an effort on my 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.200 part because I think she was happy to argue anything. 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.800 But it was a really good relationship. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.680 How do you wasases get along with this kitchen? 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.919 Well, because we're all because we have an open kitchen. 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.399 First of all, you can't get angry, you know, you 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.359 just can't. It's a real kind of barrier there. So 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:01.639 if you say I've been waiting for this, I've been 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:04.360 waiting for that. And so they all I think they 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.560 get They get along pretty pretty well. And we don't 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:11.800 have that tom chef waiter front of house back. And 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:13.560 I have to say also, as you know, I have 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.000 a friend who has a restaurant and he's often talks 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:20.320 about having difficult customers. We don't have difficult I don't 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.520 complain about my customers very much, do you. I generally 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:25.040 quite like my customers. 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:31.359 Can't say I like them. I like, I'm jaking. 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:33.520 What do you mean that you don't. 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:38.240 James Gordon, yeah, Joining I wasn't there, but I was 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.560 a home and the manager called me and said joined 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:50.080 gracious in tears because James Gordon got angry and speacause 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:51.119 of the instrument. 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.960 So for the person who hasn't read Keith McNally's Instagram, 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.600 and I suggest you follow him because they're a great 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.760 way to start the day or end of the day. 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.000 Is that especially for somebody who works the way I do. 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.280 But also I think just for you know, seeing you're 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.560 such a good writer and the way that you Again, 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.000 there are letters. The instagrams really are about the people 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.040 who work in your restaurant. You give them credit, you 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:19.119 praise them, you're proud of them. You give them and 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:24.120 fire them, you fire them. I haven't seen instagram saying 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:25.720 you fire? Do you fire people. 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:27.720 About? 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:28.640 Have you fired people? 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:32.399 Yes, right of course, But I'm like you. I didn't 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.159 enjoy it. But he would give to him if I. 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:41.280 Of course, somebody to fire somebody often I have to 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:42.439 do with fire people. 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.160 I once had to fire somebody. I knew I would 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.879 have to because he behaves so badly. I mean, he 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.879 actually harmed somebody. And he's a great guy actually, but 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.880 he kind of had a breakdown. And I called him 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:55.960 up the next morning and I said, you've got to 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.400 come and see me. And I sat down. I said, 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.480 you know, what you did last night was crazy? You 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:03.879 are you know you did this, you did that, and 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.120 you harm somebody. And I said, you know what would 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.000 you do if you were me? He said, I fired me. 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.080 I said, okay, you're fired, and that was it. 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:13.160 Let go. 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.560 It's not a nice thing to do. I don't like it. 0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:20.399 I don't like firing people, and usually you can just 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.399 move them around or find a place for them something 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:24.000 else to do. 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:29.200 I'm alwaysome. I often gave it to people with second chances. 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:34.440 I believe believer in second chances. So I might find 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:38.920 somebody that Manda and the Monday and choose to beg 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:40.120 them to come back. 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:42.840 Do you think that me too? And all of that 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.000 has helped restaurants. 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:45.280 Because I do. 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:46.560 I think it's better. 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:53.760 Maybe I'm overall I agree with maybe, but when one 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:58.400 actually meant I was done alive about them summertime, one 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.400 to twenty people might be innocence. 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.120 I think it's getting better here because there's a process. 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:10.040 And I don't know about big people, but here in 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:14.000 the River Cafe now in Britain, I think if somebody 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.439 reports anything, you know, we used to sit down with 0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:19.320 them and say, hey, God, you know you can't talk 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.760 that way, you shouldn't do this. Now there's a process 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:26.960 which is that everything stops. You bring somebody in and 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.360 there's a fair trial and kind of you know, they 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.160 bring witnesses, they do, and it's handled in a way 0:22:32.200 --> 0:22:34.280 that it is not personal, it just is. And I 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.240 think young people now they say that when you talk 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:39.720 to the women or even the guys. They say, people 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.480 in their twenties, they know they know how to speak 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.640 to women, but they know how to deal with it. 0:22:45.160 --> 0:22:49.600 Two of months ago I had a couple of to 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:55.160 caught having sex in the base bringe doing the service. 0:22:56.320 --> 0:23:00.840 Those are angry and then twenty two Yeah, that's why 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:08.280