1 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: I guess I grew up on an all day Everybody, welcome, 2 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 1: It's another episode Hunting Collective. I am Benjamin Patrick O'Brien 3 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: the first I'm joined by Philip t Engineers. Say hello, Philip, 4 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: that was inappropriate and and I'll called for what was 5 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: that horrifying yelp at the beginning of the episode. That 6 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,919 Speaker 1: was a barbaric yelp? I have you know, Okay, I'll 7 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: have you know. I'm excited for episode one six three. 8 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: We have spent the last couple of weeks, I would say, 9 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: getting into some heavy topics phil gun rights, gun ownership, 10 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: cultural division, all types of things that had is informed 11 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: and entertained some folks and and and other folks not 12 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: so much. But we trudge forward now this week. I 13 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 1: think we are bringing a lot of that to ahead. 14 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: I just got finished talking with Clay Nucom on our 15 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: very first official guard the Gate segment of this show. 16 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: We talked for over an hour about Senate Bill two 17 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: fifty two in the California legislature to ban black bear 18 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: hunting forever. I guess we'll just call it forever. Um. 19 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: So I think this is really kind of the culmination 20 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: a lot of things we've been talking about over the 21 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: last couple of weeks and our really the last couple 22 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: of years on this show. So I'm excited for you 23 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: to hear what we uncovered and talked through with the Clay. 24 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: We got a lot of other things happened in the 25 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: thhd UH cult universe whatever world, however we want to 26 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: talk about it. Um, So let's just get rolling, Phil. 27 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: We have we've we've helped rebuild a marriage. So do 28 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: you want to hear about the story about how th 29 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: HC helped rebuild a marriage? I mean, I can't say 30 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: no to that. Nobody gay. That's this was Jesse g 31 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: Right wrote in and that was her subject line, th 32 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: HC helping rebuild marriages. Wow, this is let's say, let's 33 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: see how this competes with with the dumper story about 34 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: how th HC is changing lives right? And you know me, 35 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: this is just a little like it's like a little 36 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: shine on my ego. I feel like I'm changing the world. 37 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: And then I'll read your email in the air. That's 38 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,359 Speaker 1: how it works. Um. She says, thanks for putting out 39 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: the show that we do. She's a model of a 40 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: three year old, twin daughters and so she says, so 41 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: any any alone time is usually valuable and she listens 42 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: to th HC. So, so thanks for doing that, Jesse 43 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: and and twin three year olds? Phil, how do you? 44 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: How do you feel about twin three year olds? Oh? 45 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: My gosh, I mean, I mean, yeah, that's that's a 46 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: that's a load, that is a workload. That's like one 47 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: of the that's one of the things that that always 48 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: horrified me. And between our first and second kid, having 49 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: another kid, the thought of it being twins or triplets, 50 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: something completely unexpected that rocks your world for years. Uh yeah, 51 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: So my, my, my, my thoughts, my thoughts are with 52 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: you and and you're a hero, jesse G. Thank you. Um, 53 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: I really feel like I'm gonna stop saying people's last 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: names because we read so many, like so many emails 55 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: that have personal implications. I just want to put that 56 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: out there into the universe that I understand that now, 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: and I am going to just give you the last 58 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: initial of people's names. Protect the innocent, all right, She said, 59 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 1: This is all good, though, She said she has a 60 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: thank you for providing such a wonderful jumping off point 61 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: for my husband and I to listen together. To the 62 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: th HC and for essentially giving us something to find 63 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: to do together, start going hunting and lessening our distance 64 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: from where our food comes from. Now onto the indirect 65 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: marriage counseling that you've offered. My husband is a Special 66 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: Forces medic and due to the nature of his job, 67 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: his personality is not exactly the most comfort ning and 68 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: emotionally warm and fuzzy. That's just like phil. The nature 69 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: of his job makes him just an emotionally void son 70 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: of a bee. Uh. It keeps himself, it keeps him 71 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: safe in the times he's overseas, but it makes it 72 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: him very challenging to try to find common ground in 73 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: a marriage as well as just find something to do 74 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: as a couple and as a family. His family never hunted, 75 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: but they often hiked and camped, and he continues to 76 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: love things like that to this day. In contrast, my 77 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: dad is military and he hunted to get alone time 78 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: for the demands of job and family as it was 79 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: his thing. And I was the typical teenage girl. I 80 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: never got involved in the honey adventures. But he brought 81 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 1: my husband and I each a bow for a wedding gift. 82 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: That's a badass. Wedding gift. Okay, yeah, wow, Jesse, your 83 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: dad is a badass. A couple of bows for your 84 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: wedding gifts. We should do more of that in this culture. Anyway, 85 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: he bought those wedding gifts with hopes that we would 86 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: just use them together, meaning as husband and wife. I 87 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 1: end up being fairly good good with it, and my 88 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: husband is never wanted to let someone be better than him, 89 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: so it encouraged us to practice. All Right, we're getting 90 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: to we're delving deep into this marriage, Phil, deep into 91 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: this marriage. Yeah, it's very We've we've hit some revealing blocks, 92 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: so yeah, let's keep going. Then we got pregnant with 93 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: twins right right before deployment, after years of trying and 94 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: the trials of infertility. Then move twice, and I hadn't 95 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: picked up a bow in years until I started listening 96 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: to your podcast. The Special Forces divorce rate is somewhere 97 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: between seventy five to that's worth repeating. The Special Forces 98 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: divorce rate is somewhere around seventy depending on who you ask. 99 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: With a very high deployment tempo and skyrocking tb I, 100 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: PTSD and substance abuse rates, it's not very hard to 101 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: see why, but the solutions are harder to figure out 102 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: special forces couples need time together, but finding something that 103 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: both parts of the marriage and joys a real challenge. 104 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: I once asked my husband to attend a cooking class, 105 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: and while he did great, it was definitely not something 106 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: that we repeat it. Hunting, learning about hunting, and just 107 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: the acts of target practice have been the perfect antidote 108 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: to these challenges. As can be expected, he's much better 109 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: with firearms than I am, and so we get the 110 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: chance to teach each other and learn from each other. 111 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: They're listening to your podcast and a lot of backyard 112 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,119 Speaker 1: archery practice during naptime. This is the most relatable story, 113 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: a lot of it, not all of it, but the 114 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: kid part is related listening to a lot of backyard 115 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: archery practice during naptime after the twins go to sleep. 116 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: I do that all the time. We've been actually been 117 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: able to find some common ground and an activity that 118 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: we both enjoy doing together while challenging one another to 119 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: get better and better. We've even started getting our hunting 120 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: licenses with the hope that we can eventually lessen our 121 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: dependence on the grocery store and shorten the path from 122 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: our food to our dining room table. It's it's almost 123 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: a race to see who can do it first. But 124 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: the this is a competitive couple film. Uh and I 125 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: dig it. I dig that it's healthy for them. It's 126 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: almost very so you can do it first with the 127 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: understanding that the time spent together and learning something new 128 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 1: is what is at the foundation. We now also have 129 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: something to keep us connected during these frequent trips, listening 130 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,119 Speaker 1: to the media podcasts and learning more and more about 131 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: how to become ethical hunters and passionate controvationists and hopefully 132 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: top chefs of lab game. We even have plans to 133 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: renew our vows this year, just to signify how much 134 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: of a turning point this has been for our marriage 135 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: and the new direction and more solid foundation this has 136 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: created for our family. I'll wrap it up so so 137 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: that this doesn't just ramble on and on, but I 138 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: just want to say thank you for probably such a 139 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: meaningful content that can span all ideologies, and for putting 140 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: in the work that you do. She said, I'm sure 141 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: that as of the last two episodes, you're dealing with 142 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: a quagmire of stupidity, So I hope that this serves 143 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: as some encouragement. Chess g fill the engineer take first 144 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: crack at a reaction. I mean, that's that's great, that's fantastic. Uh, 145 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, that's It's funny because like the last few months, 146 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: I've been trying, like, especially with COVID and spending more 147 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: time in the house and everything, Like, my wife and 148 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: I have been trying to find like things we can 149 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: do together, and it's like always kind of just like, 150 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: let's try this board game. Let's try to like because 151 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: I mean we we we both already do a lot 152 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: of cooking, so but like just something like an activity 153 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: we can do together, just to like that that we're 154 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: both enjoying equally. Uh. It's sometimes that can be that 155 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: can be tough to find with especially with with two 156 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: kids running around and finding a time for it, the 157 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: patience for it. Uh So I mean, hey, more more 158 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: power to you. Yeah. I mean, I'm assuming we're in 159 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 1: the trust tree here, we're in the nest since there 160 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 1: a lot of people hate me for being a dirty lib. Uh, 161 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: but my wife and I go to marriage counseling. Do 162 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: you guys go to marriage counseling? Yeah, we have not 163 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: not yet. Okay, Well, if you never need you. I 164 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: got a good guy's name is Doug. He's awesome. He 165 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: wears the perfect type of sweaters. I don't know if he. 166 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: I think he might be listening to the podcast at 167 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: this point, so he might hear the shout out yeah 168 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: maybe dougal sponsor maybe we'll start reading. As for Doug marriage, 169 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: But like Doug and my wife and I were talking 170 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: last Thursday about this exact thing, man that if you 171 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: have kids, it's it's you know, working from home. Life 172 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: is changing, it's unpredictable. What do you do together? Man? 173 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: It's game night and and now I read this email 174 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: from Jesse g and it all comes together for me. 175 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: So I'm very happy for this wonderful couple. Maybe Phil 176 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: and I can be there virtually when you renew your vows. 177 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: Will you commit to that, Phil, uh? For for their sake? No, 178 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: I will not commit to it. I say just to suggestion, Jesse, 179 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: if you want to, like rent a big TV and Phil, 180 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: Phil and I can be there split screen. I'll even 181 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: like become ordained if I need to. I don't know 182 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: if that if there's any official thing that needs to 183 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 1: happen with wedding, with renewing of specific wedding veils. But 184 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: Phil is even just volunteered just now to read some 185 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: of your wedding veils for you. Um I, miss I 186 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: missed that part of the podcastah know, as his ammitment 187 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: to your relationship because now we're also invested in in 188 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: your future together. Um So, I'm this makes me incredibly happy. 189 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: And um boy's really a personal touch there, Jesse. When 190 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: I read that, I thought, Oh, somebody's going through what 191 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,079 Speaker 1: I'm going through, trying to keep your marriage together in 192 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: the time of crisis. Uh So, Phil, thanks for thanks 193 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: for volunteering. I really appreciate you supporting the listeners like 194 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: you always do. Oh you know me. Um. I got 195 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: another email from Jonathan B. He said, fine. He said 196 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: the in title of this thing was fine hunting fascinating, 197 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: but don't want to hunt. I don't know. This is 198 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: interesting to me, so I'm gonna read it to you, 199 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: he said. Uh. I love the podcast. I'm passionate about conservation, wildlife, 200 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: in our relationship with nature, and this show fuels all 201 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: those interests of mine. However, while I find hunting fascinating, 202 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 1: I honestly have no desire to go out in the 203 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: field for myself. I'm an active angler and I keep 204 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,320 Speaker 1: some of my catch, but that's as far as I 205 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: really care to go with personally harvesting life. For me, 206 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: I probably donate. And I am a member of b 207 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: h A. I eat venison and duck um that my 208 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: family harvest. I'm saving to purchase some land where I 209 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: can allow hunters to visit and fish if I can 210 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: find the property with a body of water. I respect 211 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: the hell out of hunters and enjoy living verycariously through 212 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: you all. I know this is the year of the 213 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 1: new hunter. Best to luck to fill, but I wanted 214 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: to give a shout out to the other folks like myself. 215 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: Um and he asked for permission. Phil, do you give 216 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: Jonathan b permission to join the cult if he's solely 217 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: an angler? Uh? Am, I have a person who has 218 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: the power to do that. Yeah, you're the membership coordinator. 219 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: Oh great? Uh does that come with a raise? No? Okay, 220 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: then yes, yes, you can join the cult as a 221 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: person who does as a person who doesn't hunt themselves. 222 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: And I guess I'm a membership coordinator. I mean anyone 223 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: can join it. I guess you're benevolent. You're benevolent in 224 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: your hours. No, I mean I was reading this, I 225 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: was thinking, is this fills alter ego? Is he is 226 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: this feels way of telling me? I mean, is I 227 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: this is very relatable? Yeah, so let's break this down. 228 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: Feel is this where you're at? You're like, hey, listen, 229 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: been you're forcing am I forcing you to hunt? Before 230 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: we get into this Turkey hunting planning? Uh? In earnest 231 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: because I've got to get some dates. I think early 232 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: May is where we're looking at right now. But this 233 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 1: isn't you? Is it? Like you don't want to just 234 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: like hang out with us and not take part. Right No, 235 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to take part. I've told you I'm willing 236 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 1: to try anything. But like I it's it's it's relatable 237 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: because like I've been, I've been pretty much. I've been 238 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: up front. I've been up front with aer call. My 239 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: number is not high. Maybe it will be after I 240 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: try it, but but yeah, I'm not like, like like, especially 241 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: after being here for a while now, like I see 242 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: the positive impacts that hunting, uh, you know has in 243 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: in in multitudes, but what whether it's the environment or 244 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: or otherwise. I I just like, I'm not I'm not 245 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: compelled to go out there and do it myself. Yet Okay, 246 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: well listen. Just like last week, we welcome hate listeners. 247 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: We welcome not that this is directly comparable. We're welcome 248 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: non hunters as well to listen and enjoy whatever it 249 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: is you take from this little program. Please please do 250 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: all are welcome here. Um. So it's good to it's 251 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: good to know that guys like Jonathan b you're out 252 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: there and and really Jesse g as well. So. Um, 253 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: but we got we got a lot of stuff going 254 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: on in our world. So, Phil, I've talked to Kayla Ray. 255 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: If you don't remember Kayla, she his I would say, 256 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: like relatively unknown or little known singer of great talent. 257 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: She sang, um, what was poetry to my years? White 258 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: claw wasted? Or can't judge a white claw man by 259 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: the side of his can and really, uh took a 260 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: space in my heart with that with that song, And 261 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: so I was inspired to have her do a song 262 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: for this show. Now, how long has it been, Phil? 263 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: Did you have you been here? The entire time you've 264 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,719 Speaker 1: been here? We've had the same theme song, same introductory 265 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 1: song since you've been here, right, Yep, that's true. So 266 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: everybody's heard that enough, it's time to change. And I 267 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: know when we switched to the current song, we got 268 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: a lot of feedback from people who are both very 269 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: upset and very happy. So this song means something to 270 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: all you out there. And we also heard that our 271 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: current song, Old number seven, went up in the charts 272 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: a little bit after we first launched it. And also 273 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: it's sales went up. We heard from uh some folks 274 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: in the know and that it's sales and iTunes went up. 275 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: So hopefully we can help Kayla ray Uh get what 276 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: she deserves because she's talented as possibly could be. Um, So, Phil, 277 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna do it. Man, We're gonna do well you 278 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: suggested last week. And so here's what I need everybody 279 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: to do. T C. It's meeting our co as the email. 280 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna We're not gonna give you any 281 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: tangible prizes here, Okay, we don't. We were handing out 282 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: all kinds of things all the time in terms of prizes. 283 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: We're not gonna give you any tangible prizes. But here's 284 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: what you're gonna get. You're gonna get on every episode, 285 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: we're gonna shout out Kayla we're gonna shout out whoever 286 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: turns in the best written version with the lyrics of 287 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: this song. Don't don't send us audio. For God's sakes, 288 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: do not send us audio of you singing it. That 289 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: is banned right away. That's that's for Kayla only. Yeah, 290 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: Kayla sings you do not. Don't you dare? I'm thinking 291 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: about a few of you. Don't you dare send me 292 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: some audio of you're trying to sing this. Just write 293 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: it out, Okay, um t a C at media dot Com. 294 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: We're gonna give you. We're gonna go a couple of 295 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: weeks here, and you're gonna be immortalized in the history 296 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: of this podcast. At the end of every episode, we're 297 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: gonna thank you and thank Kayla for giving us the 298 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: theme song. So that's your prize, really great standing within 299 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: the cult um. This person will be forever immortalized on 300 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: the Mount Rushmore of THHC. So, UM, I want you 301 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: to write, this is gonna be a thirty to forty 302 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: five second little song in the beginning, and then there's 303 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: gonna be a thirty to forty five second bit at 304 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: the end. So you just write whatever comes to your heart. 305 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: It's gotta be poetic. It's got to be meaningful. It's 306 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: got to define this show. Every new listener that listens 307 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: for the first time is gonna hear this song and 308 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: they're gonna have to understand what this show is all 309 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: about via these words that you will write an email 310 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: to me and Phil, So no pressure, Phil. Do you 311 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: want to encourage everyone? Um born everyone? Is there anything 312 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: that you want to say to everyone in regards to 313 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: writing a song about this podcast? Not not at all. 314 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: I've I've been I've been witnessed to too much talent, 315 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: just honestly wasted talent. Find something better to do with 316 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: your with with all this, all these skills you have, um, 317 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: but I have no doubt that we're gonna get a 318 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: lot of great entries, and it's gonna be hard to 319 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: It's gonna be hard to choose. It's true, I have 320 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: no doubt. Um. You know, feel free to suggest songs 321 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: or melodies that go with your tune, but again, do 322 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: not sing him. Don't send me voicemails if you singing, 323 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: because I can't there's no way I can listen to this. Many, 324 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: as you know, will come in ah in this way. 325 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: So you feel free to suggest to kayla ay a 326 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: musical accompaniment that might inspire her. But you don't need 327 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: to do that. We just need your words and again 328 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: we will immortalize you in THHD history as the writer 329 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,199 Speaker 1: of the new theme song. And who knows we make 330 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: it this on iTunes that might vault to number one 331 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: in the charts. If you guys don't know hunting celebrity 332 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:52,959 Speaker 1: legend in the game, my friend Jim Shocky, he's a songwriter. 333 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: He writes songs. His his song was like number two 334 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: or three on the on the iTunes charts at some 335 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 1: point here recently. Um so, this could be Kaylory and 336 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: your chance out there to be actually have written a 337 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: song that's on iTunes that people actually listen to. Um So, 338 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm excited. Phil, Are you you excited? Do you have 339 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,360 Speaker 1: any handicaps? You think Eric All might win this? Well? 340 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,719 Speaker 1: All this talk about iTunes and charts and uh like 341 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: writing credits, I feel like we need we need to 342 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: talk to a lawyer. This this sounds this sounds too 343 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: official for me. Quiet Phil, Quiet, Okay, sorry, it's not 344 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: official at all. Nothing we do here is official. And 345 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: if you're if you're out there and you're a lawyer 346 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: listening in. Maybe don't write the song. Maybe write it's 347 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: a legal document. We can have a person who writes 348 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: a song sign uh. So, crowdsource the whole damn thing, 349 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: every part about it. So that's that's what we're doing 350 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: over the next couple of weeks. I hope to have 351 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: dozens or hundreds of submissions for this. This is incredibly 352 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: important to this show and to me, Um, and so 353 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,360 Speaker 1: I am counting on all of you two, I guess, 354 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: I mean, so weos they make it rain on the 355 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: th HD inbox with all your poetic and writing skills. 356 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: Don't forget Barry Gilbert, don't forget fill the Engineer, don't 357 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: forget teaching Game of Thrones to Stephen Ronella. Don't forget Yetie, 358 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: don't forget I just don't forget anything. Make it detailed. Okay. 359 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: Now we got a big thing to do here. Um, 360 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: we gotta get into Senate Bill to fifty two. As 361 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier, with our buddy Clay NUKEM Clay Nukes 362 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: gonna help us guard the gate. We're gonna learn all 363 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: about this bill, and then when we're done, we're gonna 364 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: really get into what th HC intends to do to 365 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: help hunters of California continue to be able to hunt, eat, 366 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: and enjoy the hides of black bears, enjoy Clay newcom 367 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: Hello sir, Hello Ben O'Brien. How goes it today in Arkansas? 368 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: It's a beautiful day here in Arkansas. It's sunshining. Everything 369 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: is everything's going pretty good. Well, you're we you know, 370 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: last time we talked, we talked about having a segment 371 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: and we're called Guard the Gate. And I was waiting 372 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: to have something, you know, really with some teeth to 373 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,679 Speaker 1: talk about in terms of of guarding the Gate. And 374 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 1: boy did we get it, man. I mean, this is 375 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 1: what we're about to talk about. Is is probably the 376 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: best example of of what you've come on this show 377 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: particularly and talked about over the last year or two 378 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: at least. Um California wants to bambar hunt. Yeah, yeah, 379 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,399 Speaker 1: this is we We built this segment for such a 380 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: time as this, as they say, yeah, like having a 381 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: button push this for emergencies, and we just bring Clay 382 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: Nukem on and we saw it. There we go. I 383 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: wish I wish it was that easy. I me too. Well, 384 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I know you have been thrown into as 385 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: I I kind of researching a bill that's been introduced 386 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: in the California legislator legislature, s B two five two, 387 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: a particularly introduced by Senator Wiener, and the co author 388 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: was I'm not even gonna say this right boring or 389 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: hor bath m hm um. And this is this is 390 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: the impetus for what we're talking about. And I will say, 391 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: like California wants to ban That's how I just phrase 392 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: that California wants to BAMBI Honey, that's not true, um, 393 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: but Senator Wiener definitely does. Yeah. So that's what we're 394 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: dealing with Senate Bill number two five two in the 395 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: California Legislature right now. So this bill was introduced on January, 396 00:21:55,080 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: and Ben, I don't know exactly what direction we and 397 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: go because there's so many directions. But you know, this 398 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: bill is so different than much of what we've seen 399 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: seriously considered in states for several reasons. But the primary 400 00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: and simple reason that I think people can take home 401 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: if they just hear one thing is that this bill 402 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: has zero science, zero data backing it. There there's not 403 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you get a bill that comes before 404 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: the government agency and perhaps there is a hint of 405 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: a hint of benefit to it per the science, or 406 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: per the finances, or you know, there's there's this like 407 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: small caveat that like, well, yeah, if we really value 408 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: that over all this other stuff, we might lean towards this. Well, 409 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: this appears to be well there there is just no 410 00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:02,239 Speaker 1: data whatsoever by the California Game officials that that that 411 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: speak to this being beneficial to bears in any way. 412 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: And that clearly means that this is an emotional appeal 413 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 1: to a base of people, that this is an easy 414 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: sell to and it just sounds good. Like so that's 415 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: the one you know, I heard our I've heard it 416 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: said by Robbie it Blood Origins, who did a good 417 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: job summarizing this bill. But he said, this is the 418 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: silver lining for us as wildlife conservationists hunters, is that 419 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: this thing's got no teeth other than it's an easy 420 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: sell because it just sounds good. Banning trophy hunting bears 421 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: in California. I mean, that's all that they're saying. And 422 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: uh so, but there in lies the problem with with 423 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff is for people to get 424 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: on the same page as us. There's a lot of 425 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: steps of in formation, knowledge, understanding of intent of the 426 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: human behind this that has to be taken before somebody 427 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,719 Speaker 1: can come to a place and go, Okay, I get it. 428 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: Now see what we need a bear season where for 429 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: them it's just one thing. Hey, did you know you 430 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: can trophy hunt bears in our beautiful state of California. 431 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: I want to stop that because I want to protect bears. 432 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: That cell is a one step sell. Our cell is 433 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: like a five step cell, you know, at the very 434 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: least maybe more. Yeah, and that's what makes it very difficult. Um. 435 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: But Ben, that's the that's just kind of a it's 436 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: just kind of entry point for us. Yeah. I think 437 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: that it's good to talk about because I was talking 438 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,439 Speaker 1: to Sam Longer, who actually wrote a piece for for 439 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: Meat Eater uh dot com. New legislation could band bear 440 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 1: hunting in California forever. And we were talking about this 441 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: and he said, are we doing you know? He said, 442 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: stuff like this is going to continue to happen? You know, 443 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: are we doing something wrong with our messaging? Like? What 444 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 1: are we doing? What can we be doing better to 445 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 1: help California? And I said, exactly, I said to him, 446 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: exactly what you just said to me. Listen, man, we 447 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: are fighting against and this is true with a lot 448 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: of things. That's true with with specifically in my case, 449 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: I believe with a R fifteen bands and things like that, 450 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: that that you can make up names. You know, Bear 451 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: Protection Act sp SP two fifty two is called the 452 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: Bear Protection Act. That's the name of it. And as 453 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: you as you read the press release from Senator Wiener, 454 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: he's out of San Francisco. He says, over the past 455 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: few years, black bears that face unprecedented habit habitat loss 456 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: due to climate change and wildfires and continued sport hunting 457 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: in California makes survival and even tougher climb. It's time 458 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: we stop this inhumane practice once and for all. He 459 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: has connected climate change in wildfires, which are political topics 460 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: to Jore too, sport hunting of bears, like that's that's 461 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: a smart political move to say, you know what threatens 462 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: these bears. These two things we know are bad climate 463 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,719 Speaker 1: changing wildfires. Oh and by the bye, sport hunting as well. 464 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: And we've seen that in other places in other states 465 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: in the In the science behind that ben is that 466 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, the bear population was said to 467 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: be in California, State of California between ten and fifteen 468 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: thousand animals. And we're talking about black bears to day 469 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: in California, and bear numbers are hard to just pin down, 470 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,159 Speaker 1: you know that. It's it's it takes years to study 471 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: population dynamics, and so these state agencies when animals are thriving, 472 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: they don't spend a ton of money on studying. I'm 473 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: necessarily because they're doing so good, you know, they're they're 474 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: putting their research funds towards other stuff. But so I 475 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: don't know exactly when the last statewide population study was 476 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: on bears, but they say today in despite all the 477 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: environmental chaos, habitat whatever, there are between thirty and forty 478 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: thousand bears in the state of California. I mean bear 479 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: it is. It is absolute falsehood to say that bears 480 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: are are are under any kind of stress even I 481 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: mean it's like there now, I'm not saying there's not 482 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: lots of habitat loss in California. That's that's I mean, 483 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: the human population is expanding so rapidly, for sure, but 484 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to bother the old Ursus americanas man. 485 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: I mean, they'll live in your backyard, and uh so 486 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: they're in lies. Our position too, is that these animals 487 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: are thriving and they've thrived underneath a regiment of managed 488 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: hunting in the state. So it's it's a really hard 489 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: if people had those facts, it would just be like, 490 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 1: so tell me again, will you proved to me that 491 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: bears are are struggling and are having a hard time surviving. 492 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just bizarre. Yeah, yeah, to to start 493 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: a bill like this, especially the public push to get 494 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: people on on board with this bill because this we're 495 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: in a very key time in the month of February 496 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: before as we're just talking to Brian Lynn from the 497 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,239 Speaker 1: Sports's Alliance before we jumped on. He was telling us 498 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: that this bill right now has been introduced and it 499 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: will be kicked around before he gets into committee sometime 500 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,160 Speaker 1: in March, early March, mid March. So there's some time 501 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: here where this bill just kind of sits and waits 502 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: to get heard and it wants this and this is 503 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: the time to really oppose it and understand how to 504 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: oppose it. But then you you think of what the 505 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: hs US, the Humane Society the United States, is saying. 506 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: I mean, they're they're probably the most prominent anti hunting 507 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: organization in terms of introducing legislation or supporting legislations on 508 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: a state by state basis, which again last time we talked, 509 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: we talked about getting behind the Sports's Alliance for just 510 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: this reason because they're the ones who were doing the 511 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: only groundwork here. We can talk all we want um, 512 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: but they're the ones doing the work and hs US 513 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: claims and another part of this kind of press push 514 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: for this bill that's seventy of Californian's opposed bear hunting 515 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: and support banning it. And again, if you if you're 516 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: gonna lie to people, you know, you're gonna create a 517 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: false uh set of encouragements here and there are just 518 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: a set of falsehoods. Then no wonder se of them 519 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: opposed bear hunting because they've not been presented with anything 520 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: near I'd like to see if that's a true statistic 521 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: or is that you know, what's the yeah? What like, 522 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: how many people did they ask that, you know, as yeah, 523 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,959 Speaker 1: assuming that's true, how did we get there? You know? 524 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: And again that's a big part of this is how 525 00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: do we talk to everyone about hunting and particularly things 526 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: like bear hunting, which which seemed to be on the 527 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: chopping block for reasons. You know, we've already discussed the 528 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: weed that we know, because bears are much easier to like, 529 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: and they live a lot of times in our kids bedrooms. Um, so, 530 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: so let's let's talk about the bill itself. I read it. 531 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: I know you read it. Um, there's a couple of 532 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: things in the beginning of the bill. It's strike. It's 533 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: it wants to strike section three oh two of the 534 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: Phishing Game Code, and and that I'll read that through 535 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: three o two and we'll just talk about this part. 536 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: When adopting regulations pursue into any authority otherwise vested in 537 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: the Commission by this code, the Commission shall annually determine 538 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: whether to continue, repeal, or amend regulations establishing hunting seasons 539 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: for black bears. The determinations shall include a review of 540 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: factors which impact the health and viability of the black 541 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: bear population. So that's what's currently in section three or 542 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: two of the Fishing Game Code in California, and this 543 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: bill wants to repeal that. Literally just crossed it out 544 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: and read. Yeah, you know, I think it's important to 545 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: even to take a step back ben what they're trying 546 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: to do. Like in the way that these these bills 547 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: are written is they're they're trying to remove black bears 548 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: from the Registrar of Game Animals in the state of California. 549 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: And it's it's not it's just semantics, but but it's 550 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: still might give some information to people about how these 551 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: things work. So basically, there's a list of game animals 552 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: in the state. Those game animals are then legal for 553 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: the state Game Agency to make hunting season and regulations 554 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: about hunting on and they're trying to remove that animal 555 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: from as a game animal, which I thought is really ironic, 556 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: Ben because like so in Michigan, we're I have a 557 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: deep respect for the Michigan Bear Hunters Association. They're a group, 558 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: statewide group in Michigan, very well ran good guys, and 559 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties. Prior to the nineteen fifties, bears 560 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: in Michigan were not game animals, which means they were hunted, 561 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: they could they could be they were simply they were 562 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: basically unprotected, and the bear hunters came in and actually 563 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: fought four of them to become, uh, you know, game animals, 564 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: to protect them and under them becoming game mammals, game animals, 565 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: their populations thrived, and now Michigan is absolutely full of 566 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: bear and the bears are doing great. So point being, 567 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: it's all a matter of perspective. He's saying, we got 568 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: to take him off this list to protect him. But 569 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: the science and the history means that actually when that 570 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: animal is on there, it is protected and does better. 571 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: So just you know, just kind of interesting angles, you know. Yeah, 572 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: that's really the heart of what what this bill is 573 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: when you get to read all the way through it, 574 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: The heart of it is we're removing this animal from 575 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: the list of game species. And again there's history here 576 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: with California, but particularly in this case. I find it 577 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: ironic as well that when I read the determination show 578 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: include a review of factors which impact the health and 579 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: viability of the black bear population is crossed out. It's 580 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: taken out. Yeah, so they and then and I read 581 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: the rest of this bill, there's nothing to replace it here. 582 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: There's no I mean, what other agencies in the state 583 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: government of California would be reviewing the black bear population 584 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 1: at all? I mean, are there other public health agencies 585 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: in this case that might be reviewing it based on 586 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: problem bears? Possibly but in this case, the Game and 587 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: Fish Agency is taking care of this game animal. They're 588 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: looking at the health and viability of the population. And 589 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: what this is saying is that that that that ride 590 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,040 Speaker 1: is going to be taken away from him. Is that 591 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: what you're saying, then, Yes, exactly what I'm saying. You're 592 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: you're decoupling these things, right, You're taking away the relationship 593 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: between game animal and Game and Phish Department. Yeah. And 594 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: that relationship, even in the language in this section three 595 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: oh two is concrete, right, you know, it's basically what 596 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 1: what section three or two is saying is that every 597 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: year or you know, at at timing dictated by the 598 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: Phishing game, they will annually determine whether to continue, repeal, 599 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: or amend regulations establishing hunting seasons for black bears. The 600 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: determination should include a review of factors which impact the 601 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: health and viability of the black bear population. It doesn't 602 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: say we're hunting black bears forever, does it. It says 603 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: we're going to review this every year and determine the 604 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: best course of action based on our North American model 605 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: of of conservation. You know what's so wild about it, too, 606 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:11,120 Speaker 1: is that if we had this track record of bumbling 607 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 1: black bears, and it's like, Okay, State agencies, you guys 608 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: have been in charge for black bears for the last 609 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: fifty years and you've about random into the dirt. You 610 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: know what, we're taking it back. We're gonna give the 611 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: regulation of these animals to someone else because of such 612 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: a bad job you've done. And bears are almost gone. 613 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 1: Like that's one story which is the exact opposite of 614 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: what's happened pretty much everywhere. Game agencies, conservation based hunting, 615 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: license sales, funding of all this stuff has worked. And Ben, 616 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: you've heard me talk about it, You've talked about it. 617 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: We all know that black bears are one of the 618 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: shining stars of of big game animals in North America 619 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: right now that are five in ways to adapt into 620 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: new habitat and are expanding their range all over. I mean, 621 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: there's not a ton of big game animals that you 622 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: can just say, man, now there's you know, they're moving 623 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,479 Speaker 1: into North Texas, and they're moving to Oklahoma, and they're 624 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:19,759 Speaker 1: moving into you know, they're just there's all these all 625 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: these populations are expanding and so like this isn't a 626 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: thing of merit. It's not like you've done a bad job, 627 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: so we're taking it away. And that's usually the way 628 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: things work in life, if you're a normal human is 629 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: do a good job at something you can you get 630 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,440 Speaker 1: to continue to do it. And and that's why I've 631 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: been like we can be upset and and even angry, 632 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: which it does elicit these things inside of me, but 633 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: we realize that we're not fighting against logic. We're not 634 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: fighting against uh or standing against you know, it's not 635 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 1: like these people if you just sat down, if they 636 00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: just listen to this podcast, there to be like, oh 637 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: we were long, we're we're fighting against something that's a 638 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: lot deeper, and it's uh ideological clash, it's uh, it's 639 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,839 Speaker 1: a lot of different things and and there in lines 640 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: of problems. So it's it's powerful for us as hunters 641 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: and conservations to have this information. I think all this 642 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: stuff that we're talking about ought to be on the 643 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: tongue of of people that care and and maybe not 644 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: everybody can you know, maybe all the details aren't as important, 645 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: but like it's really powerful to have this information, this understanding, 646 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: but still we're dealing with something bigger than this, you know. Yeah, 647 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: it's it's so it's also connected to me. It strikes 648 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: me as like it's one of the things I'm most 649 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 1: that elicits the most passionate in me about. You know, 650 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: in the realm of hunting, is that when you connect 651 00:37:54,239 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: animal rights ideology two, a growing division in this country, 652 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: fueled off and by misinformation and media spin and propaganda, 653 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 1: and and that propaganda is often attached to ideologies. And 654 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: that's what's happening here. You know that we we might 655 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: say we had it. We did a episode with Miles 656 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,800 Speaker 1: Nulti a few weeks ago where we talked about media 657 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: and division and how that affects US. And here we 658 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: are a couple of weeks later, looking at a good 659 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: example of it. And and hs US spokesperson Sabrina I'm 660 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 1: gonna get this wrong too, I always do. As Sean Um. 661 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,399 Speaker 1: She's the California State director for the h S. She said, 662 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,080 Speaker 1: California's deeply value the environment and have shown time and 663 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: time again that they don't want to see their iconic 664 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:52,479 Speaker 1: wildlife slaughtered for sport. By passing the Bare Protection Act, 665 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: California can cement its position as a leader and protecting 666 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: our natural resources and spare thousands of California's majestic and 667 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:08,760 Speaker 1: beloved black bears from a needless and unnecessary death. Wow. 668 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 1: Wow that hurts me, man, Yeah, it really. It feels 669 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: like it's not if it is a personal attack, because 670 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: what it what it's doing here is using propaganda to 671 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: paint hunters as a bunch of trophy hunting egotistical assholes 672 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: who don't care about the virtue signaling is strong in there, 673 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: setting it up as hunters who don't care about these 674 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: iconic species. Virtue signaling. I like that word. I see 675 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 1: where you're going with that. Yeah, it's signaled. It's signaled 676 00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 1: where value live. Yeah. I've got three things here, Ben, 677 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna say all three of them, and then 678 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: I'd like to make a comment on them. Please this this, 679 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:00,359 Speaker 1: this legislation sets precedence, and that was in her uige. 680 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: You know, to be a leader, California set to be 681 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: a leader. Um. I also want to comment on the 682 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: unneeded death of bears what she said? And then uh um, 683 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: and then trophy hunting. Can I make a comment on 684 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: all those I wanted to say so I wouldn't get them. 685 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: The reason the reason this is so dangerous is because 686 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: of what she said, what they see like this is 687 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 1: not normal legislation. We normally don't just make legislation based 688 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 1: upon ideology, especially with legislation that has formerly been instructed 689 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: by science and history. And so the problem is is 690 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: that if this passes in California, it gives a wide 691 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: open door for other places to do the same thing. 692 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,919 Speaker 1: And we see it all over politics, is that one 693 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,279 Speaker 1: state does something and then all of a sudden, it 694 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: opens the door for other states to do the same thing. 695 00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: That's number one. That's why comment on that too. We 696 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: were just talking to Brian Lynn, like I said, from 697 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: Sports Alliance, this is the thing that they battle. If 698 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 1: you go back and list to the their appearance on 699 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,600 Speaker 1: this show or others, this is the thing that they battle, 700 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 1: precedents setting on the judicial and legal side of this. 701 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: I'm not an expert in that, so I won't go 702 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 1: into it. But what happens all the h s US 703 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 1: is trying to do here is set a legal precedent 704 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: to argue against in other states. That's a big part 705 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: of this, what what they're trying to do. And they 706 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: can get it done near San Francisco, California exactly, And 707 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 1: so that the power here is not only in what 708 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: happens in California, but the precedence it'll set legally into 709 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,320 Speaker 1: the future. And that there's already a bunch of concrete examples. 710 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: I don't have them lined up here right right now, 711 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: but certainly we'll be talking to the Sports Alliance more 712 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: about this as it unfolds in the months to come. 713 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,280 Speaker 1: But that's you're you're exactly right, both on the legal 714 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: side and the public side. I mean, I think there's 715 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:04,919 Speaker 1: two kind of layers there, and that is exactly why 716 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: this matters to all of us. I mean, I may 717 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: never bear hunt in California, and I would bet that 718 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,160 Speaker 1: of the listeners of this podcast may never bear hunt 719 00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: in California, but this matters to all of us. It 720 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: matters to a pheasant hunter in South Dakota, a squirrel 721 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: hunter in Kentucky, a deer hunter in Arkansas. I mean 722 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: because it you know, our our world is now so 723 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:39,840 Speaker 1: connected through technology, through media, We're just so massively connected. 724 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: No longer can we divide ourselves and continue to stand like. 725 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,479 Speaker 1: That's why this is so important. And that's the whole 726 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,879 Speaker 1: essence of guard the gate, ben And and is that 727 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 1: guarding the gate means it's not just bear hunters in 728 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: California that have to stand up for this. It's not 729 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 1: just bear hunters in the in this country that I 730 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,960 Speaker 1: have to stand up for it. But what we're trying 731 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:08,000 Speaker 1: to to build is a is or we're trying to 732 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: elicit a responsive help from everybody. And I want to 733 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: we can talk later about what that help is UM, 734 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,120 Speaker 1: because I want to try to get specific, and I 735 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts too, because I've even got 736 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 1: some questions about UM. I mean, here's one thing that 737 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: gets gets into this man, like how how crazy is it? 738 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:29,840 Speaker 1: And we we talked about this all the time. We 739 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,520 Speaker 1: talked about this with Colorado ballot Box biology in terms 740 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: of reintroductional wolves. We've talked about that on this show. 741 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: What we're talking about here is even a more extreme example, 742 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: I feel, because there isn't a bear population in San 743 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: Francisco County. Senator Wiener represents San Francisco County. This is 744 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: a county that doesn't have a bear harvest. There's no 745 00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: bare depredation issues in San Francisco. This and and then 746 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,880 Speaker 1: take a few steps back from that for a minute, 747 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: let that soak in, and then go back to the 748 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: hs US comments about how this is leading a county 749 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,400 Speaker 1: in California with no bears in it is leading the 750 00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,840 Speaker 1: legislative battle to ban bear hunting. Like you start to 751 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: connect those dots, It gets back to this cultural divide. 752 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,279 Speaker 1: It gets back to these ideologies we've we always talked 753 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 1: about on this show. Is is such a as you 754 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: dig this, as you rip this thing open and kind 755 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:39,359 Speaker 1: of look at it, it lays bear so many very 756 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,560 Speaker 1: important issues in our world. It really does. Because this 757 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: is it seems so ludicrous to us people that are 758 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,640 Speaker 1: really like PROPRIETI is of this of this information that 759 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: that we traffic in it. We talked about it all 760 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: the time. To us, this seems crazy um. But to 761 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: to folks in San Francisco, this seems like common sense. 762 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 1: And the divide is painted thus lee like that. There 763 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 1: it is. Man, that's the divide um that we're that 764 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: we're working with here. And and I don't know how 765 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,360 Speaker 1: to bridge that gap in this case. I've got some ideas, 766 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 1: but that's what we have to do, because to your point, 767 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,360 Speaker 1: it isn't just about this case. This is going to 768 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: continue as our cultural division continues, and the rural, rural 769 00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:30,200 Speaker 1: and urban divide ye strikes deeper in our country. M hmm. Yeah, 770 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,680 Speaker 1: that is a great point about San Francisco County. Yeah, 771 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: I mean there's bears breaking into cabins all over California, 772 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,920 Speaker 1: none of those are in San Francisco. They harassed livestock, 773 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 1: they destroyed property, they do a lot of those things. 774 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,160 Speaker 1: Not to say that honey is there to stop that, 775 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: but certainly this is just to say that, you know, 776 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,440 Speaker 1: how can you have a perspective on on what really 777 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,760 Speaker 1: needs to happen here? And that goes back to our 778 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,400 Speaker 1: our model of conservation of this country really this continent 779 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,760 Speaker 1: that says that we do not and should not enact 780 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:12,800 Speaker 1: wildlife policy in this way. Yeah, science is the way, 781 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,440 Speaker 1: been the So the two other things I wanted to 782 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: comment on was she had language in her in her 783 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:26,439 Speaker 1: right up there about unneeded deaths of bears in California. 784 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:32,919 Speaker 1: And first of all, all bears die, they all die. Um, 785 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: I think we know that unneeded is this is the 786 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,360 Speaker 1: weirdest word. It doesn't make any sense, doesn't compute in 787 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:43,960 Speaker 1: a natural sense. Yeah, bears, bears don't live forever. Um, 788 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,399 Speaker 1: so they're gonna die somehow. But that's not my point. 789 00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:51,360 Speaker 1: My point is is that bears that get into trouble 790 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,000 Speaker 1: and State of California. I was told by a guy 791 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,879 Speaker 1: yesterday that lives in California that I spoke with that 792 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:02,680 Speaker 1: at least in his region, the California Game and Fish 793 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: no longer relocates problem bears. They just euthanized. They kill him. 794 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:08,919 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even want to say the word 795 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 1: euthanized because that is such a tame word for they 796 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: kill bears. So if you get a bear on your 797 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: in that and that does inhibit some people, he said, 798 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: from calling because he has a bear coming and bothering 799 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,919 Speaker 1: him and at his house and he is just doing 800 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,000 Speaker 1: everything you can to solve the problem on his own, 801 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,520 Speaker 1: which is a good thing, so that he didn't have 802 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: to call a Game and Fish because he knows they'll 803 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,799 Speaker 1: trap it and they'll kill it. So and I don't 804 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,799 Speaker 1: I can't say that that happens everywhere in California. Maybe 805 00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:44,279 Speaker 1: it does. But the point is that uh depredation permits 806 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 1: which this this uh this bill lots for the Game 807 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:56,839 Speaker 1: and Fish to continue to manage bears as needed as 808 00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,719 Speaker 1: I understand it, like, so it doesn't take away the 809 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,880 Speaker 1: California Game and fish is ability to catch problem bears 810 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:09,799 Speaker 1: and put them down. So this this bill, it's not 811 00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,239 Speaker 1: it's not really saving bears. It's just other people killing bears. Yeah, 812 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,759 Speaker 1: it just says it will make it illegal to kill 813 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,280 Speaker 1: bears except for scientific research, the protection of human safety, 814 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: public property, livestock, and endangered species. Um and So this 815 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:31,200 Speaker 1: isn't The Bear Protection Act doesn't necessarily protect bears all 816 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,319 Speaker 1: the way around. No, it doesn't protect bears. And so 817 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,000 Speaker 1: you get back into this um and and I'll tell 818 00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:43,440 Speaker 1: you that when Senator Wiener has has made statements previously 819 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,520 Speaker 1: that most hunters only hunt bears for trophies, leaving the 820 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: meat behind, we know that to be blatantly false. That's 821 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:57,839 Speaker 1: blatantly false. There's there is absolutely no data, no overarching 822 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 1: statements that can be made to back that up. There 823 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 1: just isn't. There just isn't most hunters. Is a generalization 824 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,560 Speaker 1: that we can't We probably can't even back up. Yeah, 825 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: but we know that you and if even if that 826 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: was the case, there's other things that can be done. 827 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm not advocating for want and waste laws because there's 828 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: a lot of issues of one and waste laws UM 829 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,640 Speaker 1: and what they do for individual hunters. But there's other 830 00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: things that we can do here. Um if that was 831 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,840 Speaker 1: the case, it's not and we won't. But just just 832 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 1: just saying the outright banning, and I go back to 833 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,240 Speaker 1: what we were saying last week with with Ian Harrison 834 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:42,560 Speaker 1: about banning air fifteens or assault weapons, which is a 835 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: made up term. The burden of proof is on in 836 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,920 Speaker 1: this case the government. If you want to restrict somebody's 837 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,080 Speaker 1: activities in this way. This is this is not a 838 00:49:55,160 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 1: constitutional right to go hunting. There's not a I wouldn't 839 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,600 Speaker 1: mind there being a constitutional amendment talking about how cool 840 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,360 Speaker 1: it was it go han, but there isn't one like 841 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 1: the second amend But in this case, the burden of 842 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,600 Speaker 1: proof needs to lie on the state government here if 843 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,040 Speaker 1: they're going to ban this, and and particularly lies with 844 00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,200 Speaker 1: Senator Wiener. He seems not to care about that burden 845 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,279 Speaker 1: of proof, but the burden of proof must lie on 846 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,919 Speaker 1: him and the other folks here that are backing this bill. 847 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,439 Speaker 1: And to match that burden of proof up with someone 848 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: saying generalizing hunters in the way that he's done publicly 849 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:37,400 Speaker 1: and clearly is doing with this legislation, that's boarding borderline sickening. 850 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,319 Speaker 1: M hmm, it's really yeah, it's it's just it just 851 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:45,960 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a kind of thing that we can 852 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,480 Speaker 1: attack with logic. But and I just don't know how 853 00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:53,800 Speaker 1: to better put it. Yeah, you know, the trophy hunting 854 00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,960 Speaker 1: aspect of it, that is such a that that's like, 855 00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,560 Speaker 1: that's like, uh, you know, political hot button word. You know, 856 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:09,880 Speaker 1: there's so many other words that we hear. Yeah, exactly, 857 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:14,400 Speaker 1: And you know, this is the information that I feel 858 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 1: like every hunter, every single hunter in North America has 859 00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:24,480 Speaker 1: to have on their lips. Is that. You know, somebody says, well, 860 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,880 Speaker 1: what about trophy hunting? You know, the first thing you 861 00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:31,280 Speaker 1: say is, well, ma'am. We have a strong ethic inside 862 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,839 Speaker 1: the hunting community, especially in the last twenty years, of 863 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,640 Speaker 1: utilizing every possible part of the animal that we're killing. 864 00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: Number one, Number two in the North American wile of 865 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,440 Speaker 1: wild life conservation, we have pillars the pillar of non 866 00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,280 Speaker 1: frivolous use of wildlife, which means that wildlife is never 867 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: killed for no reason. Now, there are some animals that 868 00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,719 Speaker 1: we that we manage and kill that we don't eat, like, 869 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,719 Speaker 1: for instance, coyotes. Like there's a time when you need 870 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,560 Speaker 1: to manage coyotes. We don't kill a kyote for his 871 00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:08,120 Speaker 1: meat necessarily, but we kill a kyote is a fur bearer, 872 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:12,440 Speaker 1: so his hide is harvested. Um. So this idea of 873 00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,160 Speaker 1: shooting a deer and cutting off his horns and leaving 874 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,359 Speaker 1: everything is not that doesn't happen. There are laws that 875 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,880 Speaker 1: put people in jail for stuff like that. Uh. Secondly, 876 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:27,399 Speaker 1: and this is where I think hunters and and our 877 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:31,560 Speaker 1: world can give insight into people that actually kind of 878 00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,200 Speaker 1: flips the light switch and goes, maybe these guys are 879 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:38,839 Speaker 1: smarter than they've marketed themselves as ben And that's when 880 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,240 Speaker 1: you say, and it's a pretty easy sell. I've taken 881 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:47,280 Speaker 1: people from zero to understanding the kind of the hip 882 00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:52,520 Speaker 1: hypocritical twisting of trophy hunting pretty quickly, and been to 883 00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:57,560 Speaker 1: say that trophy hunting, or what some would would say 884 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:03,439 Speaker 1: would be to target specific older male animals that either 885 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: have big hides or big horns, that actually saved North 886 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,000 Speaker 1: American wildlife. It turned us from a bunch of market 887 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,280 Speaker 1: hunting people in the late eighteen hundreds. We then began 888 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,279 Speaker 1: to culturally shift to where we valued big antlers and 889 00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,640 Speaker 1: big animals, which were the older age class males, older 890 00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,080 Speaker 1: age class males. By targeting those animals and give them 891 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: quantitative value to them, we took the pressure of females 892 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: and young and actually allowed populations to greatly expand because 893 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,239 Speaker 1: as a culture we said, man, we want to kill 894 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,600 Speaker 1: the big one, and guess what, we ate the big 895 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,840 Speaker 1: one too, more meat, bigger horns, cultural value assigned to 896 00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: that animal. And it took the pressure of females and 897 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:52,440 Speaker 1: youngs and actually helped was a dramatic, influential part of 898 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,600 Speaker 1: saving North American big game. Man. Like, I've told that 899 00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,279 Speaker 1: to people and they have I think it was like 900 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,759 Speaker 1: synergistic in a sense, Like it it them understanding that 901 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,520 Speaker 1: was actually a bigger piece of the puzzle than information 902 00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:14,520 Speaker 1: I gave them, because they're like, ah, there is some 903 00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,160 Speaker 1: insight behind this. These aren't just a bunch of rednecks 904 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:22,080 Speaker 1: wanting to shoot stuff. Um. So, you know, every time 905 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,680 Speaker 1: I hear the word trophy hunting, if we do the same, 906 00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:26,880 Speaker 1: if we do a podcast next month, you'll probably hear 907 00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:30,160 Speaker 1: me rant about trophy hunting. I'm gonna do it again. 908 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,960 Speaker 1: So much of this is is repetitive. I understand, like 909 00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,240 Speaker 1: we're preaching to a certain choir here and we're saying 910 00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,600 Speaker 1: the things we've said in the past about similar issues. 911 00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,520 Speaker 1: But we have to, um, we have to if one 912 00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:48,240 Speaker 1: person in San Francisco County listens to this and says, huh, 913 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,399 Speaker 1: I don't I don't agree with everything there, But I've 914 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,000 Speaker 1: taken this, this and this, and I go back to 915 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:54,319 Speaker 1: my community and tell my friends, Hey, you know how 916 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,839 Speaker 1: we used to demonize these people. Yeah, that that wasn't 917 00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,840 Speaker 1: just quite right. And that's one of the said, one 918 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: of the reasons why I try to talk to as 919 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,880 Speaker 1: many anti hunters as I can, as many vegans as 920 00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,360 Speaker 1: I can, just understand where they're coming from. I don't want, 921 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,719 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily want to build that propaganda on my 922 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:13,640 Speaker 1: own head. But to get back to like, I think 923 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,000 Speaker 1: we should talk a little bit about kind of the 924 00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:18,720 Speaker 1: we We touch on this all the time with Pittman, 925 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,680 Speaker 1: Robertson dollars and and yeah, we've repeated this number and 926 00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,120 Speaker 1: I think it still stands true. It fluctuates state by state, 927 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:34,280 Speaker 1: But of Game Department funding comes from hunting, that's licensed sales, Pittman, Roberson, dillars, 928 00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,759 Speaker 1: other things like that. That's a general number. It fluctuates, 929 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,760 Speaker 1: as I said, but in this case, the California Department 930 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:44,320 Speaker 1: with Fish and Wildlife, they allow each year for sevent 931 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:51,000 Speaker 1: bears and their harvest quota. A lot of agency biologists 932 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,600 Speaker 1: have suggested recently that it be higher than that, that 933 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,560 Speaker 1: it go beyond that because of the increases in population 934 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: that you were mentioned in earlier play. H So who knows, 935 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:09,560 Speaker 1: but hunting bears with hounds has a moratorium. It's been banned. 936 00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 1: But and I'm sure since two thousand thirteen. I'm sure 937 00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:19,040 Speaker 1: that's that's hurt that harvest quota number. So last year 938 00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,200 Speaker 1: there were thirty thousand, three hundred ninety four bear tags issued, 939 00:56:22,760 --> 00:56:30,120 Speaker 1: only nine only nine nineteen of them were filled. That's 940 00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:35,920 Speaker 1: barely more than half the quota out there, Ben, I'm 941 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:40,360 Speaker 1: doing the math. Thirty thousand, nine hundred license sales, is 942 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:45,320 Speaker 1: that thirty thousand, three nine four thirty thousand, three hundred 943 00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:49,840 Speaker 1: ninety four times they cost fifty dollars each for a resident. 944 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:55,439 Speaker 1: It's like or something, um so fifty dollars, so, Ben, 945 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,360 Speaker 1: that is one point over one point five million dollars 946 00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:04,919 Speaker 1: raised the state. UM as far as I know, that's 947 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,880 Speaker 1: second only to deer tax in terms of revenue for 948 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:12,120 Speaker 1: the California Department Fishing Wildlife, second only to say that 949 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,280 Speaker 1: say that ship again, second only to deer tag sales. 950 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,360 Speaker 1: What this bill would intend intends to do is cut 951 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:24,880 Speaker 1: off the second biggest species related funding opportunity for the 952 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:28,760 Speaker 1: Department of Fishing Wildlife. Yeah, that's what it intends. Can 953 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:31,880 Speaker 1: you like, as a hunter who thinks this is such 954 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,000 Speaker 1: a grand experiment that that's working so well to be 955 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:39,800 Speaker 1: be talking about something like this, Um, it just seems 956 00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:44,440 Speaker 1: to me. It seems patently insane. Um. But anyway you 957 00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:46,640 Speaker 1: think of then you go to California. I was, I 958 00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:51,920 Speaker 1: was putting that six number out there. Um, in California, 959 00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:53,800 Speaker 1: it's a little bit different. I was just looking it up. 960 00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,080 Speaker 1: Hunters and anglers contributed about a quarter of the department's 961 00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:01,880 Speaker 1: entire budget through license sales and excise tax. So that's 962 00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,720 Speaker 1: a fluctuation that I said, that's a pretty big one. 963 00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:11,480 Speaker 1: But um, then you go to this idea that now 964 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:16,400 Speaker 1: we're going to start killing paying someone else, hiring someone 965 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,840 Speaker 1: to kill or dispatch problem bears as they do with 966 00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,000 Speaker 1: problem lions mountain lions currently in the state. Now you 967 00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,480 Speaker 1: have not only a loss of funding, but in an 968 00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:30,840 Speaker 1: additional cost at the burden of the taxpayer. So it 969 00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:34,640 Speaker 1: doesn't line up very well on an economic front. I 970 00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:39,760 Speaker 1: don't think. Um, so, there's a lot there. There's there's 971 00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,160 Speaker 1: a lot there. But I think it would be do 972 00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,160 Speaker 1: you feel like you could You could talk to Senator 973 00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 1: Wiener and give him this, and and talk to h 974 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,920 Speaker 1: us and give him this. And he said, oh, oh no, 975 00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,040 Speaker 1: we haven't seen that before. We didn't see that, We 976 00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,400 Speaker 1: don't know about that. We weren't aware of those numbers. 977 00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,760 Speaker 1: Let's go back and recalibrate this bill based on those 978 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,640 Speaker 1: numbers right there. Yeah, because part of them you do that. 979 00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:03,280 Speaker 1: Part of my job is to make sure that I've 980 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:08,120 Speaker 1: taken care of my constituencs and my constituents or taxpayers. Yeah. 981 00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:13,560 Speaker 1: So you know, so the last year there were less 982 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,920 Speaker 1: than a thousand bearers taking the state of California. You 983 00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,520 Speaker 1: said that number. The quota was sevre. That's right. Which 984 00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,400 Speaker 1: quotas are set by game agencies that have the day 985 00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,480 Speaker 1: to have the research. Um been a number inside of 986 00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:31,880 Speaker 1: bear management that would be used by pretty much all 987 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,680 Speaker 1: game managers that I've ever dealt with, is that if 988 00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,880 Speaker 1: you want to stabilize the bear population, you need to 989 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:44,120 Speaker 1: at least take out ten of that bear population annually, 990 00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:49,680 Speaker 1: because the bear population increases by about ten percent per year. Um. 991 00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,120 Speaker 1: I've I've done the math before. I've walked the math 992 00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:59,560 Speaker 1: out like twelve years, and I'm pretty sure that county 993 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:06,360 Speaker 1: natural a mortality and natural mortality and that growth rate 994 01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: of ten percent per year, I think a bear population 995 01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: will double in like twelve years, nine to twelve years. 996 01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,400 Speaker 1: So if you had it's really interesting to do the 997 01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:20,680 Speaker 1: math because um, because you just think, like, what if 998 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 1: they just totally stopped hunting. You know what, what if 999 01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:27,000 Speaker 1: there was no hunting and just natural mortality was the 1000 01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,040 Speaker 1: only way that very popular, you know, the population was managed. 1001 01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:33,000 Speaker 1: So I mean that would be uh. And there's constraints 1002 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,520 Speaker 1: on that, you know, I mean that there are habitat 1003 01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:39,720 Speaker 1: constraints and stuff like that. But um, that being said, 1004 01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,520 Speaker 1: if California's goal was just to stabilize the bear population, 1005 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,160 Speaker 1: which I guarantee they're not trying to the game and fit, 1006 01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,600 Speaker 1: there's not a biologist in California that will say our 1007 01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,920 Speaker 1: goal is to help bears and we want them to increase, 1008 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,400 Speaker 1: Like I I really don't think they would say that 1009 01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,720 Speaker 1: in the back room that their goal is to make 1010 01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,640 Speaker 1: there be more bears in California. They're just trying to 1011 01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:03,920 Speaker 1: manage the bears they've got. And so you think of 1012 01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:08,840 Speaker 1: thirty to forty thousand bears in the state, would stabilize them, 1013 01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,160 Speaker 1: that would be a quote of three to four thousand 1014 01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:14,640 Speaker 1: bears per year. You could take out that many and 1015 01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:19,000 Speaker 1: not even affect the bear population. And we've seen those 1016 01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,280 Speaker 1: numbers come true as well, because you know, ten to 1017 01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:26,560 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand bears in nineteen eighty, there's thirty to forty 1018 01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:29,280 Speaker 1: thousand bears. But we've been killing a thousand a year 1019 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:33,480 Speaker 1: been presumably and even more so, like hunting has been 1020 01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:37,160 Speaker 1: a part of that, and we're still you know, over 1021 01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,840 Speaker 1: you know, doubling the population in um and you know, 1022 01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:47,600 Speaker 1: like forty years. So point being that you stop all 1023 01:01:47,720 --> 01:01:53,680 Speaker 1: hunting in California, then you're gonna have massive bear populations 1024 01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,840 Speaker 1: quite quickly. And just you know, I mean, that's just science. 1025 01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,840 Speaker 1: You know, those I would I would put that statement 1026 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:07,200 Speaker 1: up against. I means that that's just biology. That's just science. Yeah. Well, 1027 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,480 Speaker 1: and and as far as I know, somebody listen, and 1028 01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:14,120 Speaker 1: this is not something that I have research, and I've 1029 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,400 Speaker 1: talked a little bit like said, Sports Alliance guys and 1030 01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,600 Speaker 1: some other folks about this and locals on the ground. 1031 01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,680 Speaker 1: But I can't say this across the board. But what 1032 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:28,520 Speaker 1: I've heard is that no one is eating the problem 1033 01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:33,880 Speaker 1: bears that are euthanized and killed in the state of California. 1034 01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:39,840 Speaker 1: So nobody's utilizing the hides. And I've heard that they're 1035 01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:43,520 Speaker 1: often or at least in some cases thrown into dumpsters, 1036 01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:49,400 Speaker 1: um And and this that that in and of itself, 1037 01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:53,240 Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many that I couldn't disagree with 1038 01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:59,760 Speaker 1: this particular thought process, ideology, legislation more on any other 1039 01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,880 Speaker 1: base just than that one that that the the value 1040 01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:06,640 Speaker 1: that someone else is going to tell me that they 1041 01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:11,440 Speaker 1: value this animal more and they want to stop unnecessary killing. 1042 01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:17,400 Speaker 1: Yet my value comes with the meat and the hide 1043 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,840 Speaker 1: and the actual animal itself, not the idea of the 1044 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:24,440 Speaker 1: animal on a landscape that doesn't exist, right, And so 1045 01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:26,760 Speaker 1: that for me is that's the most painful part of this. 1046 01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,880 Speaker 1: That hidden beneath the emotional pull of of trophy hunting 1047 01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:35,240 Speaker 1: of bears is a lack of understanding of what what 1048 01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:38,640 Speaker 1: a bears value really is and the lack of the 1049 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:43,880 Speaker 1: value of the actual meat and hide itself like it is. 1050 01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:50,480 Speaker 1: There's some holes in the ethics, the paint like the 1051 01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,440 Speaker 1: just the veneer painted over, legislation like this. M hmm. 1052 01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:59,120 Speaker 1: And Ben, this is a great place to to say 1053 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:02,040 Speaker 1: something that we've said for a long time. But I'm 1054 01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,560 Speaker 1: hearing more people say it, and so I feel like 1055 01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,280 Speaker 1: the message is getting out. But I believe that we 1056 01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,000 Speaker 1: utilize more of a black bear than potentially other any 1057 01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:18,760 Speaker 1: other big game animal that we hunt because we eat 1058 01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:20,800 Speaker 1: the meat of a black bear, which the world is 1059 01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:24,240 Speaker 1: now finding out how great black bear meat can be. 1060 01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:28,360 Speaker 1: Number Two, we can we can render the fat of 1061 01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,919 Speaker 1: a bear. So usually you know, if you had fat 1062 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,360 Speaker 1: on an animal that that would be you know, it's 1063 01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,160 Speaker 1: not a commodity you take home and render down and use. 1064 01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,800 Speaker 1: You know, that would be waste in some ways, which 1065 01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,480 Speaker 1: isn't always about. There's always gonna be some waste on anything, 1066 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:47,480 Speaker 1: even in commercial butchering of animals. But we render the 1067 01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,560 Speaker 1: fat of a bear, and we're learning how good bear 1068 01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:52,680 Speaker 1: grease and barrel oil is for just everyday use. I mean, 1069 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,960 Speaker 1: I'm amazed how many people are doing this now, which 1070 01:04:55,000 --> 01:05:00,120 Speaker 1: is awesome. And then you know, I bet nine the 1071 01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:07,440 Speaker 1: this would be generous, probably closer of bears that are harvested, 1072 01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:11,760 Speaker 1: their their hides are tanned to be saved for future years, 1073 01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,439 Speaker 1: which you know, think about how many deer, what would 1074 01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:16,160 Speaker 1: what would the percentage of white tailed deer in this 1075 01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:21,240 Speaker 1: country be that people tanned the entire hide less than one. 1076 01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,120 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you's know what I'm saying. And 1077 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,480 Speaker 1: I'm not throwing white tailed deer hunting under the bus, 1078 01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:31,960 Speaker 1: but I'm just saying from a utilitarian standpoint of utilizing 1079 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,440 Speaker 1: a game animal as a commodity, which is part of 1080 01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:40,240 Speaker 1: our responsibility as hunters man. Black bears are at the 1081 01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,160 Speaker 1: top of the chart, and so to say that all 1082 01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,160 Speaker 1: these bears are gonna be killed in California, nuisance bears 1083 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,440 Speaker 1: killed and they're either buried with you know, they're buried 1084 01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,880 Speaker 1: with baccos, or they're or they're putting garbage bins, and 1085 01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,840 Speaker 1: that that's the truth. I mean, I've heard that, Ben, 1086 01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,040 Speaker 1: and I mean I can't take you to the documentation 1087 01:05:59,080 --> 01:06:01,760 Speaker 1: that says that, but I promise you there there could 1088 01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,600 Speaker 1: be the odd bear, that is the hides tanned or 1089 01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:09,680 Speaker 1: something for for science or to be given away or something. 1090 01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,040 Speaker 1: But certainly it's it's not like they have some system 1091 01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:16,280 Speaker 1: in place for every bear that's killed by government agents 1092 01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,280 Speaker 1: to be the meat to be distributed, the hide to 1093 01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,280 Speaker 1: be tanned. They don't have any bear grease renders out 1094 01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,680 Speaker 1: there working in the state of California, as I understand that, 1095 01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,040 Speaker 1: being paid by government dollars. They need. That's what they need. 1096 01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:29,760 Speaker 1: They need somebody full time rendering all that bear fat. 1097 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:37,760 Speaker 1: That's what I think. There's a guy named Earthling Ed 1098 01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:41,280 Speaker 1: who's like a big animal rights vegan activists. I'm sure 1099 01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,320 Speaker 1: he's not listening, but if if he is, come on 1100 01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:46,320 Speaker 1: the show, let's talk um. And he's he's had a 1101 01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,360 Speaker 1: few debates with hunters and different things, but he always 1102 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,160 Speaker 1: talks about the astroistic hunter. He's he's he pulled some 1103 01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:55,320 Speaker 1: clips from well known hunters talking about how, you know, 1104 01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,560 Speaker 1: if we don't kill him, nature is gonna get him. 1105 01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,680 Speaker 1: And a lot of this this idea that we're trying 1106 01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,560 Speaker 1: to say, like we are merciful by killing these animals, 1107 01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,200 Speaker 1: and I'm not making that argument at all. I'm looking 1108 01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:11,400 Speaker 1: at numbers, I'm looking at data. I'm gonna look like 1109 01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,040 Speaker 1: it's assess a wildlife management. But even if I throw 1110 01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,360 Speaker 1: all those things out, what you just said matters. You know, 1111 01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,200 Speaker 1: bear fat, bear fat, you know, white tail fat and 1112 01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:23,360 Speaker 1: bear fat don't have the same value within the hunting community. 1113 01:07:23,520 --> 01:07:27,880 Speaker 1: They just don't. UM. Bear hides and deer hides don't 1114 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:31,680 Speaker 1: have the same value within the hunting community. They just don't. UM. 1115 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,600 Speaker 1: Bear meat and dear meat don't either. I think we 1116 01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,560 Speaker 1: could do a lot to kind of level set that 1117 01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,880 Speaker 1: in the years going forward. And you have already done that, 1118 01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:44,560 Speaker 1: and meet Eator's done a lot of that work. UM. 1119 01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:46,920 Speaker 1: But when you know, in terms of altruistic hunters, I 1120 01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,120 Speaker 1: don't think of it that way. I don't. I don't 1121 01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:54,480 Speaker 1: consider myself altruistic for killing the bear. I consider myself utilitarian, 1122 01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:57,800 Speaker 1: you know, more than that. So I'm not. It just 1123 01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,440 Speaker 1: goes to kind of how an animal rights person seize 1124 01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,880 Speaker 1: this argument and how I see it. U. But and 1125 01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:05,360 Speaker 1: before we want to I do want to get to 1126 01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:07,959 Speaker 1: what people can do here and how they can help, 1127 01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:15,560 Speaker 1: because you know, both houses in the state legislature in California, 1128 01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:17,479 Speaker 1: in the state government have a super majority from the 1129 01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,760 Speaker 1: Democratic Party, and they have a Democratic governor, Gavin Newsom, 1130 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:26,679 Speaker 1: who has signed some of these bills, UM has passed 1131 01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,479 Speaker 1: some of these bills to ban certain types of hunting 1132 01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:34,400 Speaker 1: in the past. And so here we are with if 1133 01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:38,720 Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom wants to make it happen, he'll probably sign it, 1134 01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,840 Speaker 1: just like he did bills banning bobcat hunting and fur 1135 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:47,040 Speaker 1: trapping a couple of years ago. Now, um, certainly if 1136 01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:51,599 Speaker 1: we go through the history of bands of this nature, 1137 01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:56,000 Speaker 1: the state banded mountain lion hunting and they bought they 1138 01:08:56,040 --> 01:08:58,479 Speaker 1: filed up with you know, a couple of decades later, 1139 01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,640 Speaker 1: they will We'll just band bear hunting with hounds that was, 1140 01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,960 Speaker 1: and then those other two bands that we mentioned, um. 1141 01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:11,160 Speaker 1: In so, if there is anything that illustrated the creep 1142 01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:15,200 Speaker 1: that you talk about with Guard the Gate, those numbers 1143 01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:19,599 Speaker 1: right there, those years, I mean you're talking about, you know, 1144 01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:23,200 Speaker 1: at this point a thirty year creep, and we've made it, 1145 01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,280 Speaker 1: and we made it to all the way from banning 1146 01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:28,519 Speaker 1: mountain lions and hunting with hounds, all the way to 1147 01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:33,000 Speaker 1: banning the hunting of black bears highly populated and in 1148 01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:37,439 Speaker 1: a revenue the revenue black you know, revenue in the 1149 01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,400 Speaker 1: black species in the state. You know, we've made it 1150 01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:45,000 Speaker 1: that far and thirty years, So who knows what we 1151 01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:47,400 Speaker 1: gotta do but before we get to what people can do, 1152 01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,559 Speaker 1: and we've talked about this before, so we will some 1153 01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:53,559 Speaker 1: of this will be repeating ourselves. We have There is 1154 01:09:53,640 --> 01:10:00,160 Speaker 1: a illustrated divide between us and them, and I hate that. 1155 01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:06,840 Speaker 1: I hate it. Um. I want to just talk quickly, Clay, 1156 01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:11,800 Speaker 1: about what can be done to illustrate our points here 1157 01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,799 Speaker 1: directly to the people we want to talk to, because hunters, 1158 01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:18,519 Speaker 1: and whether you're a new hunter or a veteran hunter 1159 01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:22,240 Speaker 1: and you're listening to this podcast, I'm hoping that you 1160 01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,920 Speaker 1: agree with what what is Clay, and I is you know, 1161 01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:32,760 Speaker 1: passionate plea for understanding here. But I don't know if 1162 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:34,680 Speaker 1: I can get center a weener on this podcast, but 1163 01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:39,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try. Um. But other than that, which seems unlikely, 1164 01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:42,479 Speaker 1: maybe we catch lightning in a bottle with that. But 1165 01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,599 Speaker 1: other than that, Clay, what do we do to bridge 1166 01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,040 Speaker 1: this gap? Because I am not willing to engage in 1167 01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:52,400 Speaker 1: and us versus them dialogue that gets us nowhere, but 1168 01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,559 Speaker 1: convincing us how right we are and how wrong they are, 1169 01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,120 Speaker 1: because the only way the only way that we fix 1170 01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,080 Speaker 1: this is to come over over to them and see 1171 01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:03,400 Speaker 1: what the hell they're thinking and why how we can 1172 01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:07,320 Speaker 1: really make a large scale impact on the thought process 1173 01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:13,160 Speaker 1: and ideology of ye of this anti hunting crowd, you know, 1174 01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:17,080 Speaker 1: being I just I just get jotted down four things 1175 01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:19,960 Speaker 1: right here, and it's I wish there was just a 1176 01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:22,639 Speaker 1: clear cut answer, man. I mean, some things in life, 1177 01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:24,599 Speaker 1: some problems we have in life, there is an answer. 1178 01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:29,320 Speaker 1: It's like, do this and you will succeed in what 1179 01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:31,880 Speaker 1: you're trying to do. This is not one of those things, 1180 01:11:32,960 --> 01:11:36,720 Speaker 1: but there's a there's like a suite of things that 1181 01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,800 Speaker 1: I think that we can do, and not one of them, 1182 01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:43,760 Speaker 1: not one of them is the is the Golden Key. 1183 01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:47,080 Speaker 1: But they're all really important and but I think they're 1184 01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:52,280 Speaker 1: all really attainable things that we as North American sportsmen 1185 01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,639 Speaker 1: and women can do. And then I'm just gonna run 1186 01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,240 Speaker 1: through these real quick. The first one is is is 1187 01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:04,479 Speaker 1: active activism, which means to me, part of that is 1188 01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:13,320 Speaker 1: joining groups, conservation groups that are in this fight at 1189 01:12:13,360 --> 01:12:17,519 Speaker 1: a real level. And man Sportsman's Alliance. I think when 1190 01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:21,240 Speaker 1: you buy a hunting license, there ought to be it 1191 01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,400 Speaker 1: included in that license should be an extra twenty five 1192 01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:27,000 Speaker 1: dollars a year to be a member of Sportsman's Alliance. 1193 01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:32,280 Speaker 1: Sportsman's Alliance ought to have eleven million members. Uh. Those 1194 01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:38,000 Speaker 1: guys are there there fighting the fight every day. They 1195 01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:43,320 Speaker 1: know legislation, they know government, they know politics. They this 1196 01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:45,160 Speaker 1: is an incredible group. And I mean, I don't get 1197 01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,760 Speaker 1: I got no affiliation with Sportsman's Alliance other than I'm 1198 01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,720 Speaker 1: a member, and I would be a life member if 1199 01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,639 Speaker 1: they sold a life membership just like so, so number 1200 01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,960 Speaker 1: one activism be be a member of you know, Safari 1201 01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:03,280 Speaker 1: Club International, Uh, you know Boone and Crockett Club, Rocky Mountain, 1202 01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:06,280 Speaker 1: Elk found it. You know, there's all these groups, all 1203 01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:10,760 Speaker 1: these groups, but specifically in this fight, Sportsman's Alliance is 1204 01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:12,960 Speaker 1: uh is leading the way. And I know I've left 1205 01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,439 Speaker 1: out others man and please, people are so petty like 1206 01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:19,040 Speaker 1: if you leave out one, they're like, oh, Clay must 1207 01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:22,559 Speaker 1: be against such and such National Wild Turkey. Nope, joined 1208 01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,559 Speaker 1: the National Wild Turkey Federation too. A hunter ought to 1209 01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:29,920 Speaker 1: be financially responsible, and we've got to be in this 1210 01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,720 Speaker 1: day and age, we just have to be like, be 1211 01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,440 Speaker 1: members of these groups and support them because that's big. Um. 1212 01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:39,640 Speaker 1: The other thing is just we as individuals have to 1213 01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,880 Speaker 1: be educated because every you know, all over your life 1214 01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:47,479 Speaker 1: there's points of overlap where you are a hunter, you 1215 01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:51,400 Speaker 1: have an identity as a hunter, people know you, and 1216 01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:56,439 Speaker 1: you have opportunity to portray hunting in an accurate way, 1217 01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:02,120 Speaker 1: which dramatically influences public perception. Asked roots activism of just 1218 01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:06,080 Speaker 1: the average guy, the average guy being educated. Being back 1219 01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,519 Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, hardly anybody knew a single thing 1220 01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:11,120 Speaker 1: about white tail deer. If you ask somebody what a 1221 01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:14,960 Speaker 1: snort we was snort weez was in, they didn't know 1222 01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:21,599 Speaker 1: because nobody ever said that before. Um. Today, my twelve 1223 01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,760 Speaker 1: year old son can knows more terminology and more of 1224 01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:29,479 Speaker 1: the basics of white tail deer biology than the experts 1225 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,440 Speaker 1: did in the early nineteen eighties. You know, I'm exaggerating 1226 01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:36,320 Speaker 1: to make a point point being we can bring the 1227 01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:41,200 Speaker 1: baseline of data and information up so that the average 1228 01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:45,520 Speaker 1: guy that buys a hunting license, when he hears someone say, oh, 1229 01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,000 Speaker 1: bear hunting is just trophy hunting, he goes, what the 1230 01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,559 Speaker 1: heck are you talking about? We we we utilize bear meat, 1231 01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,960 Speaker 1: we we render bear fat, and trophy hunting actually saved 1232 01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:57,800 Speaker 1: North American wildlife. So targeting the big ones not about it. 1233 01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:00,439 Speaker 1: You see what I'm Sawing saying it's like we just 1234 01:15:00,479 --> 01:15:03,519 Speaker 1: have to like that just has to infiltrate us. We 1235 01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,720 Speaker 1: just have to be smarter, faster, wiser. And uh so 1236 01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:12,280 Speaker 1: that's number two. Number three is too um you know, 1237 01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:14,880 Speaker 1: I say this solid time, and Ben, I scrutinize my 1238 01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,679 Speaker 1: own self. But you know, I can talk a big 1239 01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,400 Speaker 1: game on a podcast about being ethical and and you 1240 01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:24,719 Speaker 1: lize and bear meat and all this stuff, but man 1241 01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:27,680 Speaker 1: Clay nucom has to look at his own life and 1242 01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:33,320 Speaker 1: find holes in his life where my declaration does not 1243 01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:37,240 Speaker 1: meet up with the life that I live. And so like, 1244 01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:39,280 Speaker 1: you know, so if if we talk about hunters being 1245 01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:43,760 Speaker 1: ethical and hunters being um, you know, the good guys, man, 1246 01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:45,639 Speaker 1: you got to make sure that that's who you are 1247 01:15:45,720 --> 01:15:50,720 Speaker 1: when nobody's looking. And I think that and I say this, 1248 01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:53,240 Speaker 1: and it's really a romantic idea. I mean it's just 1249 01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,719 Speaker 1: you know, but I like this idea of of hunters 1250 01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,840 Speaker 1: being like an elite pee. Well, you meet somebody that's 1251 01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:02,360 Speaker 1: a hunter and you're like, man, I bet that guy 1252 01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:05,680 Speaker 1: has character. Man I bet that guy's honest. I bet 1253 01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:07,680 Speaker 1: if that guy worked on your house, you wouldn't have 1254 01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:11,880 Speaker 1: to worry about him, you know, cheating you out of money. Like, like, 1255 01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:16,200 Speaker 1: I think our connection to wild places and our connection 1256 01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:21,200 Speaker 1: to just the realism of being a hunter should make 1257 01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:23,360 Speaker 1: us better people. It's not the only thing that should 1258 01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:25,599 Speaker 1: make us better people. There's a lot of stuff that should. 1259 01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:28,880 Speaker 1: But so like, I you know, clean the inside. You know, 1260 01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,479 Speaker 1: there's a biblical reference of cleaning the inside of the 1261 01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,680 Speaker 1: cup first, and uh, and worrying about the stick in 1262 01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,360 Speaker 1: your eye before you worry about the stick in your 1263 01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:39,760 Speaker 1: brother's eye. Man, that's so true. I mean, people, there's 1264 01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:44,599 Speaker 1: weight behind words that people have because of internal stuff 1265 01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:48,000 Speaker 1: that is unseen. When somebody says something, sometimes you're just 1266 01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:50,120 Speaker 1: like that guy knows what he's talking about, and it's 1267 01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:53,599 Speaker 1: because of the lifestyle that he lives, the place that 1268 01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:57,639 Speaker 1: he speaks from, people perceive that. I I think it's 1269 01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,519 Speaker 1: North American hunters. We can live a lie style that 1270 01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:07,920 Speaker 1: gives our ideas credibility simply because who we are. I deeply, deeply, 1271 01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:13,080 Speaker 1: deeply believe that. Um, you know. And then overall, ben like, 1272 01:17:13,160 --> 01:17:17,519 Speaker 1: what can we do? What can we do? Man? In 1273 01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:20,360 Speaker 1: a democratic society, We've got to make a splash, you know. 1274 01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:25,320 Speaker 1: Brian Lynn told us just earlier that that if these 1275 01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,320 Speaker 1: bills can be cut off before they actually reached the 1276 01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:31,920 Speaker 1: legislative floor, that they're much easier to handle. I mean, 1277 01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,400 Speaker 1: what I'm seeing on social media right now is that 1278 01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:38,639 Speaker 1: guys are tagging this senator, people are speaking out about it. 1279 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:42,400 Speaker 1: We've just got to make our voice heard, and that 1280 01:17:42,600 --> 01:17:46,200 Speaker 1: is often done in uh. You know, there's petitions that 1281 01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:49,639 Speaker 1: you can sign that are going around right now. There's 1282 01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:54,680 Speaker 1: uh in in in that's where it's tough to know 1283 01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,680 Speaker 1: who to trust, Like where do I put my petition? Man? 1284 01:17:57,800 --> 01:17:59,400 Speaker 1: All I can say is that find a group that 1285 01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:02,080 Speaker 1: you trust and just do what they do. You know, 1286 01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:06,160 Speaker 1: um and uh, but we've got to just take the 1287 01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:07,840 Speaker 1: time to do it. You just gotta take the time 1288 01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:11,360 Speaker 1: sign that petition. You know, repost something on social social 1289 01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:14,960 Speaker 1: media is so powerful. Repost something. And what I always 1290 01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:16,920 Speaker 1: say to and I said it this week on my 1291 01:18:17,479 --> 01:18:18,960 Speaker 1: some of the stuff I was talking about is we 1292 01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:23,080 Speaker 1: gotta stay classy. I mean, if we're just perceived as 1293 01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:27,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of raven rednecks going wild on this senator, 1294 01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:32,000 Speaker 1: we will not be heard. If we are intelligent, smart, respectful, 1295 01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:36,000 Speaker 1: empathetic towards those who don't have understanding. There are people 1296 01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:39,760 Speaker 1: that are not bad people. They just don't know. And 1297 01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:41,439 Speaker 1: if you walked up to him and said bear hunting 1298 01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:43,479 Speaker 1: is bad, we need to stop it, they would go yes. 1299 01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:46,960 Speaker 1: And then if they sat down with me or been Ben, 1300 01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:48,479 Speaker 1: if they were at your house and that dinner with 1301 01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,760 Speaker 1: you and your family, and probably ten minutes, you could 1302 01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,920 Speaker 1: convince them, oh, it's it's actually really good like that. 1303 01:18:55,040 --> 01:18:57,080 Speaker 1: That's not a bad person. That's just a person that's 1304 01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:00,080 Speaker 1: not misinformed. We've got to have empathy towards people, and 1305 01:19:00,160 --> 01:19:02,360 Speaker 1: we've got to be careful about drawing these lines of 1306 01:19:02,439 --> 01:19:04,360 Speaker 1: us and them, which we have to because it is 1307 01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:07,200 Speaker 1: us and them. But at the same time, we gotta 1308 01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:11,720 Speaker 1: be able to make inroads for people to to change, 1309 01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:16,160 Speaker 1: you know. And uh no, man, the biggest thing is 1310 01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:21,800 Speaker 1: be financially responsible. Dedicate your money two good causes. Clean 1311 01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:25,439 Speaker 1: the inside of your own cup. First, be educated man, 1312 01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:29,200 Speaker 1: like you hear Ben talk, or you hear Brian Lynn 1313 01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:31,680 Speaker 1: talk like you ought to be able to talk like 1314 01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:35,920 Speaker 1: that too, and not everybody can, but you should. Well 1315 01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:39,680 Speaker 1: you have to be challenged right like you can't. I 1316 01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:44,120 Speaker 1: was one of the things that really got me going on. 1317 01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:46,160 Speaker 1: This was years ago, mostly four or five years ago. 1318 01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:50,320 Speaker 1: I was sitting with a representative from the company Patagonia 1319 01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:54,400 Speaker 1: at We're getting together to try to talk about some 1320 01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:56,400 Speaker 1: some stuff on a business level. But we also had 1321 01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:59,000 Speaker 1: this like shared idea that public lands and hunting we're 1322 01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,880 Speaker 1: a good thing. And it was kind of a you know, 1323 01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:04,000 Speaker 1: it was a tete a tete. It was kind of 1324 01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:07,840 Speaker 1: I was saying my things, they were saying, there's um 1325 01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:11,240 Speaker 1: And they asked me very simple questions like tell me 1326 01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,920 Speaker 1: about this excise tax. I don't understand this, I understand this. 1327 01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:16,599 Speaker 1: Tell me why this is good. I don't understand Tell 1328 01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:18,680 Speaker 1: me how the hunting funds all this stuff. Tell me 1329 01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:20,599 Speaker 1: why you're so confident that hunting is a good thing. 1330 01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:24,120 Speaker 1: And it was a point in my life where I 1331 01:20:24,120 --> 01:20:28,920 Speaker 1: could speak what I felt was in my own head 1332 01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:33,960 Speaker 1: was a cursory knowledge of these things. I could speak 1333 01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:37,920 Speaker 1: on the Pittman Robertson Act, I could speak on the 1334 01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:42,640 Speaker 1: American system of conservation funding. I could speak on the 1335 01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:45,240 Speaker 1: North American model of wildlife conservation. But I didn't know 1336 01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,360 Speaker 1: enough about it to be as passionate as we are 1337 01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:53,040 Speaker 1: here today. And and I was dancing around some of 1338 01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:55,080 Speaker 1: the things I didn't know, the gaps of my own 1339 01:20:55,200 --> 01:21:00,719 Speaker 1: knowledge were we're not we're we're roadblocks in my passionate 1340 01:21:00,760 --> 01:21:04,559 Speaker 1: appeal to these people who were just asking genuine questions. Um. 1341 01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:06,720 Speaker 1: They weren't trying to attack me, they weren't trying to 1342 01:21:06,720 --> 01:21:08,759 Speaker 1: call say I was wrong. They were asked me genuine 1343 01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,040 Speaker 1: questions so they could get educated about these very important 1344 01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,120 Speaker 1: topics to me and to them um. And it was 1345 01:21:15,160 --> 01:21:20,719 Speaker 1: those conversations and and many others like it that affected 1346 01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:22,320 Speaker 1: me so heavily that I wanted to start a podcast 1347 01:21:22,320 --> 01:21:25,640 Speaker 1: where we could talk about those things in depth and 1348 01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:28,519 Speaker 1: learn about them together. You know, We've since I've since 1349 01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,240 Speaker 1: had Dr Valarious Guys of Shane Mahoney on this show 1350 01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:34,599 Speaker 1: multiple times and read their new book on the North 1351 01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:36,599 Speaker 1: American Model of wild life Conservation. I think I know 1352 01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,599 Speaker 1: just about as much about it um as I possibly could, 1353 01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:45,240 Speaker 1: given those two guys came up with the idea to 1354 01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:48,800 Speaker 1: codify those tenants and put them out to the world. 1355 01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:51,640 Speaker 1: So now I feel like I've come along and I 1356 01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:53,360 Speaker 1: am a better voice for hunting. And I think that's 1357 01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:56,200 Speaker 1: what you're describing, right, That's what that's what you're describing. 1358 01:21:56,240 --> 01:21:58,800 Speaker 1: And also in my own life with one once I 1359 01:21:58,840 --> 01:22:02,320 Speaker 1: had children. I really is that I couldn't. My children 1360 01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:07,400 Speaker 1: are smart, perceptive little human beings, and they're gonna see 1361 01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:12,040 Speaker 1: me if I'm being disingenuous. They're gonna see the intimate 1362 01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:16,720 Speaker 1: moments of my life that would would relate to the 1363 01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:20,519 Speaker 1: disingenuous moments of my public life. And when I say 1364 01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:22,720 Speaker 1: public life, I just mean social media. Even if you 1365 01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:24,680 Speaker 1: don't have a podcast like I do or Clay does, 1366 01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:29,320 Speaker 1: they're going to connect the disingenuous statements I make in 1367 01:22:29,439 --> 01:22:33,960 Speaker 1: public with what they see in the garage after a 1368 01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,240 Speaker 1: deer hunt or what they see in the field after 1369 01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:39,080 Speaker 1: a deer hunt. So these are very personal things for me. 1370 01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:42,240 Speaker 1: I don't I didn't do them to prove anything to anybody. 1371 01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:45,200 Speaker 1: So I really do appreciate it on a personal level 1372 01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:48,240 Speaker 1: of the point you're making there, um, And that's that's 1373 01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:51,680 Speaker 1: the kind of reflection that I'd like to see when 1374 01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:53,880 Speaker 1: I look in the mirror, and I think all hunters 1375 01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,479 Speaker 1: probably should should when they look in the mirror. Um. 1376 01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:58,200 Speaker 1: And I want to just reiterate, and you said this, 1377 01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:02,320 Speaker 1: I said it earlier this this podcast and explaining these 1378 01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:04,120 Speaker 1: things and being passed about these things is not to 1379 01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:07,720 Speaker 1: elicit on us versus them mentality. If that's what you're 1380 01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:11,800 Speaker 1: picking up here, you're missing the point. The point is 1381 01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:14,400 Speaker 1: to get educated, is to do better, and then to 1382 01:23:14,439 --> 01:23:18,439 Speaker 1: communicate to these people firmly we disagree. And here is why. 1383 01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:20,360 Speaker 1: It's not to call them names. It's not to say 1384 01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:23,200 Speaker 1: San Francisco is this, or Senator Wiener is that. That's 1385 01:23:23,240 --> 01:23:26,240 Speaker 1: not the point. And again I'm just repeating a lot 1386 01:23:26,240 --> 01:23:27,560 Speaker 1: of what you said there, Clay, but I mean it 1387 01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:32,559 Speaker 1: truly is that, truly is the way forward in my view. 1388 01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:35,439 Speaker 1: And again, I'm gonna try to get Senator w Weener 1389 01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,000 Speaker 1: to come and talk to us. Um. I'm gonna call 1390 01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:39,680 Speaker 1: the H, S, U, S and and and see if 1391 01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,200 Speaker 1: I can't get those folks to talk to us. Um. 1392 01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:44,200 Speaker 1: I've got a lot of ideas about how to just 1393 01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:49,400 Speaker 1: just talk to these folks, including um getting really aggressive 1394 01:23:49,439 --> 01:23:52,320 Speaker 1: with that and go into where they are. And so 1395 01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:55,720 Speaker 1: that's part of it. But that's only that's only for 1396 01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:59,040 Speaker 1: this show and for me. But if if rewind the 1397 01:23:59,080 --> 01:24:01,040 Speaker 1: tape here and let's to what cladya said, and you'll 1398 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:04,000 Speaker 1: have a good, a good road map on how to 1399 01:24:04,400 --> 01:24:07,240 Speaker 1: how to be a little bit better and how to 1400 01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:10,560 Speaker 1: understand these things. A little better. Let me just say this, Uh, 1401 01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:12,240 Speaker 1: if you want, you want to do something right now, 1402 01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:16,400 Speaker 1: go to Sports AND's Alliance and become a member. That's 1403 01:24:16,400 --> 01:24:19,240 Speaker 1: the first thing we've already said that. Write a letter 1404 01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:24,280 Speaker 1: and write that letter to California Governor Gavin Newsom, Write 1405 01:24:24,320 --> 01:24:29,519 Speaker 1: a letter to State Senator Wiener, write a letter to 1406 01:24:30,040 --> 01:24:33,240 Speaker 1: anyone really in the any representatives in the legislatures that 1407 01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:38,600 Speaker 1: are gonna here and see this bill, send it bill too. 1408 01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:43,840 Speaker 1: You can also join the California Chapter Backcut your hunters 1409 01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:47,080 Speaker 1: and anglers get involved. There a lot of good volunteer 1410 01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:49,760 Speaker 1: level folks that are doing good work. We're gonna talk 1411 01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:53,400 Speaker 1: to some representatives here pretty soon from Safari Club International 1412 01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:56,000 Speaker 1: about their stance on this. Probably next week or the 1413 01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:59,000 Speaker 1: week after. We're gonna get them on talk about this. UM, 1414 01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:04,519 Speaker 1: Western Bear found Ation, California Rifle and Pistol Association, all 1415 01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:07,599 Speaker 1: kinds of things you can do, UM, but the first 1416 01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:09,519 Speaker 1: thing you do if you haven't heard any of those groups, 1417 01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:12,479 Speaker 1: explore all of it, just like you listen to us 1418 01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:15,760 Speaker 1: and hopefully learned a few things and and gather some 1419 01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:20,080 Speaker 1: knowledge you didn't have prior. UM Again, we'll talk about 1420 01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:21,800 Speaker 1: it further on the show man. I feel like this 1421 01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:23,800 Speaker 1: is a cross section of all the things that we've 1422 01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,960 Speaker 1: talked about in two and a half three years of 1423 01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:28,920 Speaker 1: this program and all the things I've heard you say 1424 01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:32,280 Speaker 1: over the year's Clay, this is kind of a meeting 1425 01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:39,000 Speaker 1: point in nexus for all of of wildlife and habitat 1426 01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,760 Speaker 1: management in our North American model, and trophy hunting and 1427 01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:50,200 Speaker 1: animal rights, predator management, urbanization, the cultural divide in this country. 1428 01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:53,759 Speaker 1: All of that kind of is in this big poduct 1429 01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:59,280 Speaker 1: gumbo that is s B two fifty two in California. So, um, 1430 01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:01,760 Speaker 1: that's important. Any last any any final words on this, Clay, 1431 01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:03,599 Speaker 1: We're gonna we'll have you back from Regard the Gate. 1432 01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:06,519 Speaker 1: I can't imagine we won't be talking about this throughout 1433 01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:09,720 Speaker 1: the spring. But is there any anything you want to 1434 01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:12,559 Speaker 1: say from your end to kind of wrap it up? 1435 01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:15,720 Speaker 1: I think I've I've said it all. Just Guard the 1436 01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:20,479 Speaker 1: Gate Gate. Thanks for thanks for the conversation. Ben always 1437 01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:33,799 Speaker 1: appreciated Guard the Gate. That's it. That's all another episode 1438 01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:37,200 Speaker 1: in the books. Thank you to Clay Newcombe, thank you 1439 01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:40,679 Speaker 1: to all of you for writing in Jesse g Hey, listen, 1440 01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:44,120 Speaker 1: I'm recording this after something crazy happened last night. We're 1441 01:26:44,120 --> 01:26:46,840 Speaker 1: getting ready to post this episode, put it out there 1442 01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:51,000 Speaker 1: on Tuesday morning, leg normal and in about seven o'clock 1443 01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:55,320 Speaker 1: last night here we learned that California State Senator Scott 1444 01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:59,960 Speaker 1: Wiener in his office had dropped Senate Bill two fifth 1445 01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:02,280 Speaker 1: too in California to end bear hunting in the States. 1446 01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:06,439 Speaker 1: He's a bit of a shocker. It was something that 1447 01:27:06,520 --> 01:27:09,800 Speaker 1: we did not expect. We expected a battle of fight. 1448 01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:14,519 Speaker 1: We expected to have to educate, We expected to come 1449 01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,559 Speaker 1: up with a lot of opposition as this went forward. 1450 01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:20,280 Speaker 1: But now I'm sitting here us early in the morning 1451 01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:24,280 Speaker 1: last night we learned of this news. I called State 1452 01:27:24,360 --> 01:27:27,040 Speaker 1: Senator Oener's office and talked to one of his representatives, 1453 01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:31,680 Speaker 1: who did confirm with me that because of the COVID pandemic, 1454 01:27:31,880 --> 01:27:35,600 Speaker 1: they said an urgent need to address the code pandemic. 1455 01:27:36,160 --> 01:27:38,800 Speaker 1: Wiener believed this isn't the time to focus on this 1456 01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:43,759 Speaker 1: right now was his quote. Um, this is only comes 1457 01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:45,679 Speaker 1: one week after the bill was introduced and it didn't 1458 01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:49,439 Speaker 1: even make it to committee. We had met her. We 1459 01:27:49,479 --> 01:27:52,120 Speaker 1: talked to Roy Griffith, who's a retired assistant chief Warden 1460 01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:57,439 Speaker 1: for the California Department of fish and wildlife. He said 1461 01:27:57,479 --> 01:28:00,640 Speaker 1: that it's likely this negative attention brought on by by 1462 01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:04,839 Speaker 1: this podcast by Meat Eater, by other publications and concert 1463 01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:08,280 Speaker 1: with a changed out organ petition led the senator back 1464 01:28:08,320 --> 01:28:14,240 Speaker 1: office plans. Now, obviously we don't know that the official 1465 01:28:14,280 --> 01:28:18,320 Speaker 1: position is is COVID nineteen was to blame for the 1466 01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:21,160 Speaker 1: killing of this bill, but we know that that probably 1467 01:28:21,200 --> 01:28:25,439 Speaker 1: nothing changed from seven or eight days ago till now 1468 01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:30,280 Speaker 1: with the COVID nineteen challenges UM and Senator Wiener's county 1469 01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:34,280 Speaker 1: there in San Francisco County, so it's safe to say 1470 01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:38,640 Speaker 1: that he met some opposition that maybe he wasn't ready for. 1471 01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:42,439 Speaker 1: Talked to Brian Lynn, who, as we mentioned the podcast, 1472 01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,240 Speaker 1: the VP of Communications and Marketing for Sports and Alliance. 1473 01:28:46,080 --> 01:28:49,280 Speaker 1: He said the honey community and conservation community undoubtedly had 1474 01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:53,719 Speaker 1: an impact on the early death of this legislation. He said, quote, 1475 01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,320 Speaker 1: if there wasn't any pushback, SP two fifty two would 1476 01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:00,240 Speaker 1: likely still be going forward. It was great to see 1477 01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:03,120 Speaker 1: so many people in groups and a unified voice pushing 1478 01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:10,000 Speaker 1: back against a shortsighted and dangerous piece of legislation. This 1479 01:29:10,080 --> 01:29:12,920 Speaker 1: is great, This is this is not only what we 1480 01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:16,160 Speaker 1: wanted to see it's more than that. It sends a 1481 01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:21,160 Speaker 1: message to any state. It sends a message to anyone 1482 01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:26,679 Speaker 1: who thinks that they can introduce legislation to band hunting 1483 01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:31,839 Speaker 1: that maybe uh may feel right in their their district, 1484 01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:36,120 Speaker 1: their's county, that is not right for a country and 1485 01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:38,680 Speaker 1: not right for their state, that it is going to 1486 01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:42,800 Speaker 1: be a tough road to get those things past. Do 1487 01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:46,360 Speaker 1: not everyone out there who took part in this, everyone 1488 01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:50,400 Speaker 1: out there who wrote in, do not think this is 1489 01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:55,280 Speaker 1: a small thing. It is not a small thing. And 1490 01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:59,080 Speaker 1: Sports was Alliance shared something the last night, late last 1491 01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:01,640 Speaker 1: night after we recorded that, I wanted to read to you, 1492 01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:04,960 Speaker 1: and this is a quote from Wayne Poselli back in 1493 01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,840 Speaker 1: He made this quote in Full Cry magazine and he's 1494 01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:11,439 Speaker 1: the former CEO of pretty famous animal rights activist and 1495 01:30:11,520 --> 01:30:14,880 Speaker 1: former CEO of the Humane Society United States hs US 1496 01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:19,760 Speaker 1: Fund for Animals. He basically created a large anti hunting 1497 01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:24,479 Speaker 1: organizations in the world. And he said this quote, We 1498 01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:27,320 Speaker 1: are going to use the ballot box and the democratic 1499 01:30:27,400 --> 01:30:30,840 Speaker 1: process to stop all hunting in the United States. We 1500 01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:34,160 Speaker 1: will take it species by species until all hunting is 1501 01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:38,360 Speaker 1: stopped in California, then we take it state by state. 1502 01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:42,200 Speaker 1: That's a pretty sobering thing, you know, And as we 1503 01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:47,080 Speaker 1: talked about in the podcast that we recorded yesterday, this 1504 01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:49,640 Speaker 1: is something that we're not going to fall into the 1505 01:30:49,680 --> 01:30:54,400 Speaker 1: trap of us versus them. But that all that being said, 1506 01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:57,080 Speaker 1: it's important to stand up for what we believe in, 1507 01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:00,760 Speaker 1: and it's important to be clear how strongly we believe 1508 01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,000 Speaker 1: in it. Um Certainly there are folks like Wayne p 1509 01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:07,320 Speaker 1: Selli out there that stand against what we believe. So 1510 01:31:07,400 --> 01:31:12,320 Speaker 1: we'll continue to stand up and we'll continue to speak 1511 01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:14,759 Speaker 1: what we believe to be the truth and the facts 1512 01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:17,240 Speaker 1: of the situation respectfully, and we will continue to come 1513 01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:21,599 Speaker 1: across the table two anti hunters and ana rights activists 1514 01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:24,800 Speaker 1: and talk to them and expressed to them that we 1515 01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:29,080 Speaker 1: do have more similarities to them, we probably do differences 1516 01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:31,479 Speaker 1: and see where we get here on the Hunting Collective. 1517 01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:34,120 Speaker 1: A little bit of a different ending than we all thought, 1518 01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:39,000 Speaker 1: but the ending we all wanted. I'm excited. Congratulations to 1519 01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:41,920 Speaker 1: all of you that took part in this, and this 1520 01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,320 Speaker 1: is a different ending, but a better one. So we'll 1521 01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:47,400 Speaker 1: see you next week on the Hunting Collective. Say by 1522 01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:52,320 Speaker 1: Phil always not there, you know, because I can't go 1523 01:31:52,439 --> 01:32:00,920 Speaker 1: a week without doing right, can break it out of 1524 01:32:03,880 --> 01:32:08,000 Speaker 1: I'm to wing it wrong. Drink it in heaven.