WEBVTT - Saving for College is Overrated #368 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.640 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:26.439 Matt's and today we're discussing why saving for college is overrated? Dude, 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.479 saving for college so overrated? You know, you actually wanted 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.800 to call this episode college is overrated. College sucks? Why 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.519 I hate education in general? College is the worst? You know, 0:00:35.640 --> 0:00:38.519 we decided to take a less controversial title for this episode. 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.240 But we do think that saving for college that it 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.960 might be overrated, that for some folks in particular, there 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:46.280 should definitely be other things that take priority over saving 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:48.479 for college. But also too, man, just we're gonna talk 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.760 through some of the different benefits of not saving for 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.840 for your kids college. We think that there's a lot 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.520 that you can gain by taking some other paths, or 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:58.760 at least considering those other paths, right, because I think 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.560 oftentimes it can the mindset is just like, oh, it's 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:04.080 a slam dunk decision you gotta say for your kids college, 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.560 and that in particular, that's what we want to push 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.319 back against us. Right, We're gonna do that in today's episode. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:11.120 But first, Matt, before we get to that, I wanted 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:14.440 to mention I was messaging with a buddy recently. His 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.720 name is Jess and we're actually about to have a 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.520 beer that he made on the show today. But he 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.720 he told me that his friend especially made his own 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.240 solo stove, and I'm not I'm not sure if anybody's 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.000 seen the solo stoves. Are these like really cool stainless 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:32.120 steel looking smokeless fire pits, and they're like three D 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:35.960 plus dollars. They're they're pretty expensive. They are premium outdoor 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.320 toys for for those who like to play the fire 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.240 in a safe way. And a lot of people got these, 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.080 you know, fire pits during the pandemic because outdoor hangs, right, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.440 And we almost got one ourselves, but instead we opted 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.480 for the woodburning stove, not the solo stove, which I'll 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:51.160 describe it by the way. It's like the stainless steel 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:53.000 like you said, But what makes it special is the 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:54.920 fact that it's kind of got these It's insulated, so 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.120 it's double walled, that's got these special holes in it, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.840 and that allows the heated air to re enter the 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.520 combustion zone. So essentially any unspent I guess fuel like smoke, 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.040 instead of smoking up and getting in your eyes and 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.679 causing you to choke, it ignites that smoke and so 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.560 that's why they're called smokeless fire pits. It's actually a 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:14.680 really cool technology. Yeah, it is cool, and and there 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.079 are a few manufacturers making fire pits like this now. 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.160 But but apparently you can make your own and you 0:02:20.200 --> 0:02:23.239 can make it for like thirty bucks, and they don't 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.440 look quite as cool. I mean, the solo stoves look 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:28.200 really nice. They look really dope. Yeah, they're they're cool. 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:30.600 But you can you can make your own out of 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:33.680 like a giant stockpot essentially and just kind of making 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.320 your own fabrications. And so yeah, there's a YouTube video 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:39.160 that will help you figure out how you can do this. 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:40.600 It looks like it takes a little bit of time, 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.760 a little bit effort, but it's not impossible to do, 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.320 and it will save you a ton of money. Five 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.320 bucks man, that's not bad for having your own smokeless 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:48.760 fire pit. And I know, by the way, that we're 0:02:48.760 --> 0:02:50.679 talking about this in June and it's hot and most 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.359 parts of the country, but you know, I don't know, 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:53.560 it might take you a few months to get it 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.360 ready and uh and and then you'll have it ready 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.880 for the fall. Exactly. I haven't ready for the fall, 0:02:58.040 --> 0:02:59.720 so I will say, do you feel like it's frugal 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.000 or cheap to make your own solo stove? Oh? I 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.440 feel like totally frugal, totally frugal. Just three for a 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.839 fire pit seems expensive. And I like the idea of 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:11.360 just a fire pit in the ground too. And I 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.480 don't mind the smoke personally, but for somebody who wants 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:16.840 a smokeless firepit experience. And I was like, I love 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:20.320 for my eyes to water, Like I I I'm totally 0:03:20.360 --> 0:03:22.120 down with people making their own. I think it's um, 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:24.080 I think it's a great move. Yeah, I mean, here's 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.160 my thought is that if you are interested in making 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:27.960 your own, then by all means, go for it. But like, 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.200 if you're just looking to not spend the money, I 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.920 think that. I mean, you definitely need to have the 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.120 right tools on hand, and in particular too, like it 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.480 involves a lot of you know, cutting and drilling metal. 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:39.680 I don't know if you've ever drilled metal, dude, or 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.080 tried to cut metal, but it can be pretty dicey. 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.720 And by dicey, I mean you can dice up your fingers. 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:49.640 Because uh so that's another aspect of the frugler chieve right, certainly, Yeah, 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:51.440 definitely where it gloves. But like if you end up 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:53.200 slicing your hand open and you gotta get to the 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.240 doctor uh to get stitches, well, then it's definitely a 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.560 cheap move because in the end you've wasted a lot 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.040 of time and you're bleeding everywhere. I don't want that 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:03.520 to happen. No, that's a good point. Yeah, But if 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:04.960 you have the tools on hand, and you've got to 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:07.600 know how, and it's something in particular that you enjoy doing, right, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.200 then by all means, absolutely make your own solo stove. 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.960 In my opinion, if it's fun, well, it doesn't even 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.240 matter like if it costs more money, right like, because 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.640 if that's something that you enjoy doing, then it would 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.320 be worth your time. It would be a frugal move. 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.080 But yeah, I wouldn't say for folks to do this 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.280 only to save money, because then I don't know, I 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:25.480 think a lot of times folks can go through a 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.320 lot of headache, uh and potentially receive a product that 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.120 may not be quite as you know, quite as nice 0:04:30.160 --> 0:04:33.480 as like a perfectly manufactured solo stove. Yeah. But for 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.039 those are that that that like going the d I 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.320 Y route, I think this is a fun option to try, 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:40.080 especially if you were like Man, I should have got 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:43.080 a nice fire pit, you know, last last fall, last winter, 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.120 I didn't do it. And now you can make your 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:46.680 own if you're up for it. But let's mention the 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:48.640 beer that we're having on on this show, Matt. This 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.320 is again from our friend Jess. This is UH a 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:54.320 coconut stout and he brews under the name Easy Chair 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.680 Brewing Garage. So yeah, looking forward to having this local 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.680 beer from from a friend on today's show. And it 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.120 makes the us too that he would have the stockpot 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.000 on hand, because when you're doing homebrew, you've you've got 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.960 lots of metal pots and pans and stuff like that 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:07.839 for for all the homebrew. So yeah, I'm looking forward 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:09.760 to drinking this one on the show, sharing it with 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.520 you and sharing our thoughts at the end of the episode. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.440 And by the way, thanks Jess for donating this one 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:16.279 to the show. All right, let's move on to the 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.800 subject at hand, Matt. Today we're talking about why saving 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:23.600 for college is overrated, and yeah, it just made me think, Man, 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.080 as we're preparing for this episode, like, do you remember 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.880 buying the engagement ring that you got for Kate, do 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.840 you remember that process totally. Man. I remember doing that obviously. 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.000 I remember doing it because I you know, when it's 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.599 a proposed to gay and marry her, but you know, 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.160 it almost feels like that it's something that you don't 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.440 even have a choice over, right, Like it's like, oh, 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:44.480 if you wanna get married, like you gotta buy an 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.360 engagement right, right, And there's like a huge learning curve. 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.920 I feel like that comes with buying an engagement ring. 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:54.200 I remember learning about like the three c's, the cut, color, clarity, 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:58.040 and like diving forces right, like carrot, Oh yeah, carrots too, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.200 that's right. See. So yeah, there's four seas I guess, 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:03.760 and like diving deep in order to like to buy 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:05.640 a nice ring for my wife, one one that she 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:07.560 would love. And some of my friends they were about 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.160 to get engaged at the same time, and we were 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:12.120 basically learning from each other, leaning on each other for advice, 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.200 you know, so and and help because we're all a 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:16.760 little bit lost as we were like trying to buy 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:18.880 this ring. And like as I was like, you know 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.400 a guy, right, and actually someone didn't know someone We 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:24.479 all used the same person. But like, yeah, as I 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.880 was researching the rings, there were some things that were 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.159 hard for me to come to grips with. For instance, 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.839 there was the cultural pressure to get an engagement ring. 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.520 The costs three times your monthly income. That was the 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:38.560 supposed standard, I guess, And yeah, for that scared me 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.279 because I'm like a frugal, frugal dude, and I was 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.960 borderline cheap back then, or maybe not even borderline I 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:45.960 was all the way back then. That was the Joel 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.520 that was asking their friends to pitch in for charcoal 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:50.880 when you're inviting them over to to grill out right, Yeah, 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:52.800 that was that was definitely a cheap move, not a 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:54.560 good friend move. I don't advise it. Those ways are 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.359 behind you, I hope, so we know they are. You 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:01.200 haven't charged me for charcoal in a few years. But yeah, 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:02.880 I mean, like that was such a such a thing 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.440 to try to try to buy this engagement ring. And 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:07.240 I feel like, yeah, I was able to to find 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.120 something that my wife really loved, like this vintage ring, 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:12.960 but I didn't actually have to end up spending an 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:15.040 arm and a leg in order to show her that 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.160 I loved her. And I ended up spending just under 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.560 a month's income instead of like the three months that 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.800 that some people were prescribing and and I think matt 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.600 saving for college seems to have taken on like a 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.800 similar culture dynamic in recent years. It puts a lot 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.400 of pressure on parents to pony up and start saving 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.640 money that they don't have for their kids future before 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.080 they're even funding their own. And even though it's summer 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:39.960 in school's out, I feel like this is just an 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.480 important topic for us to be discussing today. Yeah, it's true. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:45.680 And in a sense too, you can almost be extended 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:47.880 as another way of saying that, like, oh, here's how 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:49.800 much I love you, this is how much money I've 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:52.920 said aside, uh, in a similar way that an engagement 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.680 ring could be misconstrued that way as well. Right. But yeah, 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.760 I think a lot of parents are wondering how much 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.240 they need to save in order to be per forming 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.720 their parental duty properly. But we're gonna we're gonna get 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.920 a little countercultural here and ask the questions should you 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.040 be saving for college at all? We're all about preparing 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.440 ahead of time and ensuring that we're properly saving and 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:14.920 investing our money. But for a lot of folks, man, 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.600 the answer is that they shouldn't be putting any money 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:20.640 towards their child's future college expenses. And so today we're 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.200 gonna discuss the benefits of not saving for your kids 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.920 college when it does make sense to start putting away 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.600 money for your kids future, and then also how to 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.600 actually go about doing it. Yeah. I love that you 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:34.480 said the benefits of not saving for your kids college. 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.360 You're not gonna read that headline anywhere like that. The 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.600 headlines all push you towards saving more for your kids 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.760 college and such rebels. But I think that's like such 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.520 an important, important thing to mention, and so yeah, let's 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.760 talk about the different reasons that we as parents are 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.600 pressured into saving for our kids college. I think knowing 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.320 why it is that we might feel hounded to set 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.920 aside massive sums of money for our kids college for 0:08:56.960 --> 0:09:00.280 our progenese future education is really the first up to 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.880 overcoming that line of thinking. Yeah, that's right. And one 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:05.400 of the first reasons we want to touch on, man, 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.000 is just marketing and advertising. We we think that plays 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:10.440 a huge role. And so for instance, with the engagement 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.840 ring example you just mentioned, uh it was, it was 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.400 actually advertising from the beers back in the thirties that 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.960 said that you should spend a month's salary, but then 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:22.720 over the decades that expanded to three months salary. That's 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:24.760 supposed to go towards the engagement ring. And you would 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.360 think that company would be would be cool. They got 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.560 beer in their name, you know that's true. But no, 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:31.400 they're trying to pressure us into you know, spending more 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.400 money than we should. You know, surprised, it's not. It's 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:35.240 like gonna be up to six months pretty soon. Right. 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.120 But similarly, right, it's important to pay attention to the 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:42.120 messages that are communicated to us by colleges themselves. So 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:44.240 I'm thinking, like, maybe you're you're sitting there, you're watching 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.040 some college football or some college basketball and TV. Something 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.959 as simple as a commercial for the school that's showing 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.120 the college kids, you know, working in a lab. You know, 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.520 they've got their lab coats on, with their goggles, pipets, 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.680 that kind of thing, doing hard work. Yeah, Or maybe 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.880 they're you know, studying diligently on campus. All of these 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.640 different types of messages can have a pretty significant impact 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.000 on us as parents, whether we realize it or not. 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.600 It affects the way we think about things, and especially 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:10.199 to if your kids are sitting there. It affects the 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.480 way that they think about things because you know, they're 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.000 being told that like, oh, this is what this is 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:15.480 what I'm supposed to do, Like I have to go 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.440 to this this nice college, make sure I get my education, 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.160 this is an experience worth paying for exactly. Yeah, that's 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.600 what they're trying to communicate. And besides, like the marketing 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.400 and the advertising, there's peer pressure too. I think that's 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.520 involved in kind of our perception of how much college 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.240 should cost and how much would we should be saving 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.679 and putting away towards our kids college future. And it's 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.640 important to remember that our friends and other parents can 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.800 have a large impact on us and our attitude towards 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:43.800 saving for college. Also, we might think maybe that we're 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:46.280 immune to advertising. We might think that we're immune to 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:48.480 peer pressure because you know that was high school of 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.120 middle school, right, Like, we don't deal with your pressure anymore. 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.360 We're friends, and so our actions do impact the way 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.560 that we think about things, and we're not alone. That 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:57.839 goes for everybody. Yeah, yes, So basically, we we should 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.960 continue to check in on our own attitudes and our 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.440 opinions towards money and the decisions that we make with it, 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.000 like where we decide to invest and how we decide 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.520 to invest, to make sure that we're not blindly adopting 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.559 the values of other people that run in our social circles, 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:13.920 and including Matt. You know, some of those people might 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.760 be in a completely different financial situation than where and 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.080 they might be talking about how much they're setting aside 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:21.600 for their kids future, but we don't know if they're 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.960 neglecting their own retirement, and we don't know if they 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:25.640 make three times as much as we do. Like, some 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.600 of some of those things are left unsaid in the discussion, um, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.480 and we can feel pressured into doing exactly what they're 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.720 doing because it's construed as loving your kids versus not 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:36.319 loving your kids. And I just think that's like a 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.439 not not an actual Uh, that's a false dichotomy. Yeah, 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.680 that's true. Man. It takes intentional living for us to 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.480 not go down the path of least resistance. Right. If 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.160 we're not thinking about things that we're not proactively steering, 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:49.480 you know what direction our lives are gonna go, and 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.800 we're likely going to do similar things as those around us. Right. 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.360 Another reason that I think sometimes we can feel pressured 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.000 into saving for our kids colleges. I mean, just generally speaking, 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:00.880 we do want the best for our kids. Right. The 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.400 research shows that higher education leads to making more money 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.800 over time. But just because that's what the research shows, 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.199 this doesn't mean that you, as a parent, that you 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.680 should automatically be footing the bill. And you know, again, 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:15.839 like we are fans of college, and so by all means, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.000 let's encourage our kids to go to college if they 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:20.680 want to, but there and even if they don't want to, 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.120 you know, like it's probably something that we should encourage, 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:26.720 but there are lots of different ways to cover those costs. 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:28.719 And also, man, you know, a part of one of 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.560 the best opportunities for kids is the desire to protect 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:35.240 them from the devastating effects of student loans. Uh. You 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.320 might feel that it's better for you to take that 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.760 financial hit. You're thinking, they don't even have a job. Uh, 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.679 and so you think, Okay, I'm certainly going to be 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:45.800 in a better position than they will be. But that 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:47.480 may not be the case. That may not be true. Yeah, 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:49.000 I mean, like, you know, if one of my kids 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:50.720 needed it, I'd give him my kidney, right, like I 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.880 do something like that you can live with just one exactly, 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:55.880 and so I think like that this is like the 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:57.920 same mentality applies, like, well, I don't want him to 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.400 go through life with just one kidney, don't want to 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.360 go through life with like just massive amounts of student loans. 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.560 And I understand that desire, Like that makes sense, Like 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:07.560 I don't want my kids to go through you know, 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:10.800 life with a massive debt load either, But there are 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:12.320 other ways to come about that. We're gonna talk about 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.160 that in just a second. So actually, this maye think 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.440 of another potential reason that I think we feel pressured 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:18.360 to maybe pay for our kids college. And that's also 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.520 because if we were in the situations where our parents 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.920 did that for us, right, So you know, in your 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:26.120 kidney example, maybe think about that. But like if that 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:27.839 was done for you, it kind of makes you and 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:29.640 it might encourage you to kind of pay it forward 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.800 because you think, oh, well, this is how we go 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.480 about doing things. But again, do you know what your 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:37.440 parents financial situation was when they completely flitted the bill 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.679 for your Ivy League education. You might be in a 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.080 very different situation than they were in at the time, 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.400 that's right, Yeah, And I think especially as tuition prices 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.480 have risen over the last few decades, and I think 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.240 for some parents it almost feels like unethical to bring 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.640 a child into this world and then saddle them with 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.600 tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in student 0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.480 loan debt that they'll likely accrue, you know, in the 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:00.559 in the process of getting a degree. And while I 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.040 can understand that mindset, it it really just isn't in 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.200 either or scenario. You can love your child well and 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.000 you can help them avoid an insane deat burden without 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:11.480 hurting your own personal finances in a big way in 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.200 the process. That's right, dude. Yeah, And all these things 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.000 that we encounter, right, whether it's like our own beliefs, 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.480 just the media that we consume, the messaging that is 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.240 communicated to us, or even the conversations that we have 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:24.960 with with other parents. Maybe you're sitting there at the 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.600 you know, the ball field or something like that, and 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.040 they're talking about how you know, they've stalked away like 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:31.720 grand already and their kids like three, and you're like, wait, 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:35.120 what that sounds like too much. I'm way behind. But 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:37.440 you know, peer pressure, right, Like, all these things have 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.520 an effect on us. All these things unite to create 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:44.120 the cultural pressure to pay for your kids college. Uh. 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:45.880 And you know this is assuming that you're in the 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.000 financial position that you're even able to pay. But like 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.280 we we often stay here on the show just because 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.280 you can do something, that doesn't mean that you should. 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.160 So after the break, we're gonna make an argument for 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.680 why you shouldn't be saving fe your kids college. We'll 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:11.360 get to that right after this all we're back, Matt, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.640 let's keep hating on college. M not actually hating on college, 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.200 just hating on saving up way too much money and 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:20.200 hurting your own personal finances in the process to pay 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:23.000 for your kids college, especially when that's just the default 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:24.840 way of thinking, when you haven't given it the thought 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.440 that you need to. We always want to challenge the 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:28.560 status quo. That's right, and I think, like, yeah, the 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.520 most important reason that we would say that you should 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:36.400 avoid saving for college, why it's overrated, is that scholarships 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.160 in financial aid don't exist when it comes to your 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.880 retirement for your kids. There are a lot of different 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.480 options till lower the cost of college. There are a 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:46.840 million ways to skin that cat. They go to a 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:49.360 cheaper school, they can hunt for more scholarships, they can 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.880 work part time or even full time. Oh gasp, don't 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.760 say it ain't so, you know, while while they're in school, Uh, 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.560 they can become a resident assistant, right to help pay 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:03.040 and let send some of the costs for for lodging. 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.320 I mean, there's just so many ways to go about 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.200 lowering the cost of college. They can even join the military, 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:10.840 like if that's something they're interested in, Uh, in order 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.760 to pursue that higher education at minimal cost. There are 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:17.560 also just a lot of smart ways to score more money, 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.120 more financial aid from universities in the application process. We 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.360 talked about that in more detail with Ron Lieber from 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.600 The New York Times on episode three seven, and then 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.760 Matt's on top of that, even after your child graduates, 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.600 some employers will help pay down those student loans, and 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.600 public service loan forgiveness is an option for those willing 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.600 to work in public service sector for a decade. So 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.880 I feel like with all those things, when it comes 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:44.200 to saving for the decades that you're not gonna be 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:48.080 working for your own retirement, you can't count on Social 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.240 Security alone to get you through that. Right, there are 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.600 much fewer options than all the options that are available 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.280 to kids. Right, It's basically up to you to save 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.560 an invest in your four own k in your I 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.240 ra A. There aren't really other options, Like there is 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.359 no scholarship or financial aid for quitning work someday. But yeah, 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.399 with all of those resources, all those different ways that 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.960 you can lower or completely even eliminate the cost of college, 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.879 to me, that's the number one reason to make saving 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.680 for college almost like a last priority in your financial life. Yeah, 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.960 there are so many different avenues that your kids can 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.600 explore when it comes to, you know, finding creative ways 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.760 to pay for college. And especially if your finances aren't 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:27.720 up to enough, then we would recommend that you definitely 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.320 don't save for college. If say, you've got it quite 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.200 a bit of debts. Uh, you have no business saving 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.479 for your kids higher education. Uh, you gotta take care 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.320 of your own credit card debt. You need to take 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.440 care of your own car loan and even your own 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.720 student loans first, right, Like, you don't need to start 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:43.800 saving for your kids college when you haven't even paid 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.720 off your own college exactly. Also, if your retirement savings 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:49.320 have barely begun, or maybe they're just paltry, well, don't 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:51.719 save for your kids educational future. You need to make 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.639