Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Speaker 1: Matt's and today we're discussing why saving for college is overrated? Dude,
Speaker 1: saving for college so overrated? You know, you actually wanted
Speaker 1: to call this episode college is overrated. College sucks? Why
Speaker 1: I hate education in general? College is the worst? You know,
Speaker 1: we decided to take a less controversial title for this episode.
Speaker 1: But we do think that saving for college that it
Speaker 1: might be overrated, that for some folks in particular, there
Speaker 1: should definitely be other things that take priority over saving
Speaker 1: for college. But also too, man, just we're gonna talk
Speaker 1: through some of the different benefits of not saving for
Speaker 1: for your kids college. We think that there's a lot
Speaker 1: that you can gain by taking some other paths, or
Speaker 1: at least considering those other paths, right, because I think
Speaker 1: oftentimes it can the mindset is just like, oh, it's
Speaker 1: a slam dunk decision you gotta say for your kids college,
Speaker 1: and that in particular, that's what we want to push
Speaker 1: back against us. Right, We're gonna do that in today's episode.
Speaker 1: But first, Matt, before we get to that, I wanted
Speaker 1: to mention I was messaging with a buddy recently. His
Speaker 1: name is Jess and we're actually about to have a
Speaker 1: beer that he made on the show today. But he
Speaker 1: he told me that his friend especially made his own
Speaker 1: solo stove, and I'm not I'm not sure if anybody's
Speaker 1: seen the solo stoves. Are these like really cool stainless
Speaker 1: steel looking smokeless fire pits, and they're like three D
Speaker 1: plus dollars. They're they're pretty expensive. They are premium outdoor
Speaker 1: toys for for those who like to play the fire
Speaker 1: in a safe way. And a lot of people got these,
Speaker 1: you know, fire pits during the pandemic because outdoor hangs, right,
Speaker 1: And we almost got one ourselves, but instead we opted
Speaker 1: for the woodburning stove, not the solo stove, which I'll
Speaker 1: describe it by the way. It's like the stainless steel
Speaker 1: like you said, But what makes it special is the
Speaker 1: fact that it's kind of got these It's insulated, so
Speaker 1: it's double walled, that's got these special holes in it,
Speaker 1: and that allows the heated air to re enter the
Speaker 1: combustion zone. So essentially any unspent I guess fuel like smoke,
Speaker 1: instead of smoking up and getting in your eyes and
Speaker 1: causing you to choke, it ignites that smoke and so
Speaker 1: that's why they're called smokeless fire pits. It's actually a
Speaker 1: really cool technology. Yeah, it is cool, and and there
Speaker 1: are a few manufacturers making fire pits like this now.
Speaker 1: But but apparently you can make your own and you
Speaker 1: can make it for like thirty bucks, and they don't
Speaker 1: look quite as cool. I mean, the solo stoves look
Speaker 1: really nice. They look really dope. Yeah, they're they're cool.
Speaker 1: But you can you can make your own out of
Speaker 1: like a giant stockpot essentially and just kind of making
Speaker 1: your own fabrications. And so yeah, there's a YouTube video
Speaker 1: that will help you figure out how you can do this.
Speaker 1: It looks like it takes a little bit of time,
Speaker 1: a little bit effort, but it's not impossible to do,
Speaker 1: and it will save you a ton of money. Five
Speaker 1: bucks man, that's not bad for having your own smokeless
Speaker 1: fire pit. And I know, by the way, that we're
Speaker 1: talking about this in June and it's hot and most
Speaker 1: parts of the country, but you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it might take you a few months to get it
Speaker 1: ready and uh and and then you'll have it ready
Speaker 1: for the fall. Exactly. I haven't ready for the fall,
Speaker 1: so I will say, do you feel like it's frugal
Speaker 1: or cheap to make your own solo stove? Oh? I
Speaker 1: feel like totally frugal, totally frugal. Just three for a
Speaker 1: fire pit seems expensive. And I like the idea of
Speaker 1: just a fire pit in the ground too. And I
Speaker 1: don't mind the smoke personally, but for somebody who wants
Speaker 1: a smokeless firepit experience. And I was like, I love
Speaker 1: for my eyes to water, Like I I I'm totally
Speaker 1: down with people making their own. I think it's um,
Speaker 1: I think it's a great move. Yeah, I mean, here's
Speaker 1: my thought is that if you are interested in making
Speaker 1: your own, then by all means, go for it. But like,
Speaker 1: if you're just looking to not spend the money, I
Speaker 1: think that. I mean, you definitely need to have the
Speaker 1: right tools on hand, and in particular too, like it
Speaker 1: involves a lot of you know, cutting and drilling metal.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever drilled metal, dude, or
Speaker 1: tried to cut metal, but it can be pretty dicey.
Speaker 1: And by dicey, I mean you can dice up your fingers.
Speaker 1: Because uh so that's another aspect of the frugler chieve right, certainly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely where it gloves. But like if you end up
Speaker 1: slicing your hand open and you gotta get to the
Speaker 1: doctor uh to get stitches, well, then it's definitely a
Speaker 1: cheap move because in the end you've wasted a lot
Speaker 1: of time and you're bleeding everywhere. I don't want that
Speaker 1: to happen. No, that's a good point. Yeah, But if
Speaker 1: you have the tools on hand, and you've got to
Speaker 1: know how, and it's something in particular that you enjoy doing, right,
Speaker 1: then by all means, absolutely make your own solo stove.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, if it's fun, well, it doesn't even
Speaker 1: matter like if it costs more money, right like, because
Speaker 1: if that's something that you enjoy doing, then it would
Speaker 1: be worth your time. It would be a frugal move.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I wouldn't say for folks to do this
Speaker 1: only to save money, because then I don't know, I
Speaker 1: think a lot of times folks can go through a
Speaker 1: lot of headache, uh and potentially receive a product that
Speaker 1: may not be quite as you know, quite as nice
Speaker 1: as like a perfectly manufactured solo stove. Yeah. But for
Speaker 1: those are that that that like going the d I
Speaker 1: Y route, I think this is a fun option to try,
Speaker 1: especially if you were like Man, I should have got
Speaker 1: a nice fire pit, you know, last last fall, last winter,
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. And now you can make your
Speaker 1: own if you're up for it. But let's mention the
Speaker 1: beer that we're having on on this show, Matt. This
Speaker 1: is again from our friend Jess. This is UH a
Speaker 1: coconut stout and he brews under the name Easy Chair
Speaker 1: Brewing Garage. So yeah, looking forward to having this local
Speaker 1: beer from from a friend on today's show. And it
Speaker 1: makes the us too that he would have the stockpot
Speaker 1: on hand, because when you're doing homebrew, you've you've got
Speaker 1: lots of metal pots and pans and stuff like that
Speaker 1: for for all the homebrew. So yeah, I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to drinking this one on the show, sharing it with
Speaker 1: you and sharing our thoughts at the end of the episode.
Speaker 1: And by the way, thanks Jess for donating this one
Speaker 1: to the show. All right, let's move on to the
Speaker 1: subject at hand, Matt. Today we're talking about why saving
Speaker 1: for college is overrated, and yeah, it just made me think, Man,
Speaker 1: as we're preparing for this episode, like, do you remember
Speaker 1: buying the engagement ring that you got for Kate, do
Speaker 1: you remember that process totally. Man. I remember doing that obviously.
Speaker 1: I remember doing it because I you know, when it's
Speaker 1: a proposed to gay and marry her, but you know,
Speaker 1: it almost feels like that it's something that you don't
Speaker 1: even have a choice over, right, Like it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: if you wanna get married, like you gotta buy an
Speaker 1: engagement right, right, And there's like a huge learning curve.
Speaker 1: I feel like that comes with buying an engagement ring.
Speaker 1: I remember learning about like the three c's, the cut, color, clarity,
Speaker 1: and like diving forces right, like carrot, Oh yeah, carrots too,
Speaker 1: that's right. See. So yeah, there's four seas I guess,
Speaker 1: and like diving deep in order to like to buy
Speaker 1: a nice ring for my wife, one one that she
Speaker 1: would love. And some of my friends they were about
Speaker 1: to get engaged at the same time, and we were
Speaker 1: basically learning from each other, leaning on each other for advice,
Speaker 1: you know, so and and help because we're all a
Speaker 1: little bit lost as we were like trying to buy
Speaker 1: this ring. And like as I was like, you know
Speaker 1: a guy, right, and actually someone didn't know someone We
Speaker 1: all used the same person. But like, yeah, as I
Speaker 1: was researching the rings, there were some things that were
Speaker 1: hard for me to come to grips with. For instance,
Speaker 1: there was the cultural pressure to get an engagement ring.
Speaker 1: The costs three times your monthly income. That was the
Speaker 1: supposed standard, I guess, And yeah, for that scared me
Speaker 1: because I'm like a frugal, frugal dude, and I was
Speaker 1: borderline cheap back then, or maybe not even borderline I
Speaker 1: was all the way back then. That was the Joel
Speaker 1: that was asking their friends to pitch in for charcoal
Speaker 1: when you're inviting them over to to grill out right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was that was definitely a cheap move, not a
Speaker 1: good friend move. I don't advise it. Those ways are
Speaker 1: behind you, I hope, so we know they are. You
Speaker 1: haven't charged me for charcoal in a few years. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, like that was such a such a thing
Speaker 1: to try to try to buy this engagement ring. And
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, I was able to to find
Speaker 1: something that my wife really loved, like this vintage ring,
Speaker 1: but I didn't actually have to end up spending an
Speaker 1: arm and a leg in order to show her that
Speaker 1: I loved her. And I ended up spending just under
Speaker 1: a month's income instead of like the three months that
Speaker 1: that some people were prescribing and and I think matt
Speaker 1: saving for college seems to have taken on like a
Speaker 1: similar culture dynamic in recent years. It puts a lot
Speaker 1: of pressure on parents to pony up and start saving
Speaker 1: money that they don't have for their kids future before
Speaker 1: they're even funding their own. And even though it's summer
Speaker 1: in school's out, I feel like this is just an
Speaker 1: important topic for us to be discussing today. Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: And in a sense too, you can almost be extended
Speaker 1: as another way of saying that, like, oh, here's how
Speaker 1: much I love you, this is how much money I've
Speaker 1: said aside, uh, in a similar way that an engagement
Speaker 1: ring could be misconstrued that way as well. Right. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of parents are wondering how much
Speaker 1: they need to save in order to be per forming
Speaker 1: their parental duty properly. But we're gonna we're gonna get
Speaker 1: a little countercultural here and ask the questions should you
Speaker 1: be saving for college at all? We're all about preparing
Speaker 1: ahead of time and ensuring that we're properly saving and
Speaker 1: investing our money. But for a lot of folks, man,
Speaker 1: the answer is that they shouldn't be putting any money
Speaker 1: towards their child's future college expenses. And so today we're
Speaker 1: gonna discuss the benefits of not saving for your kids
Speaker 1: college when it does make sense to start putting away
Speaker 1: money for your kids future, and then also how to
Speaker 1: actually go about doing it. Yeah. I love that you
Speaker 1: said the benefits of not saving for your kids college.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna read that headline anywhere like that. The
Speaker 1: headlines all push you towards saving more for your kids
Speaker 1: college and such rebels. But I think that's like such
Speaker 1: an important, important thing to mention, and so yeah, let's
Speaker 1: talk about the different reasons that we as parents are
Speaker 1: pressured into saving for our kids college. I think knowing
Speaker 1: why it is that we might feel hounded to set
Speaker 1: aside massive sums of money for our kids college for
Speaker 1: our progenese future education is really the first up to
Speaker 1: overcoming that line of thinking. Yeah, that's right. And one
Speaker 1: of the first reasons we want to touch on, man,
Speaker 1: is just marketing and advertising. We we think that plays
Speaker 1: a huge role. And so for instance, with the engagement
Speaker 1: ring example you just mentioned, uh it was, it was
Speaker 1: actually advertising from the beers back in the thirties that
Speaker 1: said that you should spend a month's salary, but then
Speaker 1: over the decades that expanded to three months salary. That's
Speaker 1: supposed to go towards the engagement ring. And you would
Speaker 1: think that company would be would be cool. They got
Speaker 1: beer in their name, you know that's true. But no,
Speaker 1: they're trying to pressure us into you know, spending more
Speaker 1: money than we should. You know, surprised, it's not. It's
Speaker 1: like gonna be up to six months pretty soon. Right.
Speaker 1: But similarly, right, it's important to pay attention to the
Speaker 1: messages that are communicated to us by colleges themselves. So
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like, maybe you're you're sitting there, you're watching
Speaker 1: some college football or some college basketball and TV. Something
Speaker 1: as simple as a commercial for the school that's showing
Speaker 1: the college kids, you know, working in a lab. You know,
Speaker 1: they've got their lab coats on, with their goggles, pipets,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing, doing hard work. Yeah, Or maybe
Speaker 1: they're you know, studying diligently on campus. All of these
Speaker 1: different types of messages can have a pretty significant impact
Speaker 1: on us as parents, whether we realize it or not.
Speaker 1: It affects the way we think about things, and especially
Speaker 1: to if your kids are sitting there. It affects the
Speaker 1: way that they think about things because you know, they're
Speaker 1: being told that like, oh, this is what this is
Speaker 1: what I'm supposed to do, Like I have to go
Speaker 1: to this this nice college, make sure I get my education,
Speaker 1: this is an experience worth paying for exactly. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: what they're trying to communicate. And besides, like the marketing
Speaker 1: and the advertising, there's peer pressure too. I think that's
Speaker 1: involved in kind of our perception of how much college
Speaker 1: should cost and how much would we should be saving
Speaker 1: and putting away towards our kids college future. And it's
Speaker 1: important to remember that our friends and other parents can
Speaker 1: have a large impact on us and our attitude towards
Speaker 1: saving for college. Also, we might think maybe that we're
Speaker 1: immune to advertising. We might think that we're immune to
Speaker 1: peer pressure because you know that was high school of
Speaker 1: middle school, right, Like, we don't deal with your pressure anymore.
Speaker 1: We're friends, and so our actions do impact the way
Speaker 1: that we think about things, and we're not alone. That
Speaker 1: goes for everybody. Yeah, yes, So basically, we we should
Speaker 1: continue to check in on our own attitudes and our
Speaker 1: opinions towards money and the decisions that we make with it,
Speaker 1: like where we decide to invest and how we decide
Speaker 1: to invest, to make sure that we're not blindly adopting
Speaker 1: the values of other people that run in our social circles,
Speaker 1: and including Matt. You know, some of those people might
Speaker 1: be in a completely different financial situation than where and
Speaker 1: they might be talking about how much they're setting aside
Speaker 1: for their kids future, but we don't know if they're
Speaker 1: neglecting their own retirement, and we don't know if they
Speaker 1: make three times as much as we do. Like, some
Speaker 1: of some of those things are left unsaid in the discussion, um,
Speaker 1: and we can feel pressured into doing exactly what they're
Speaker 1: doing because it's construed as loving your kids versus not
Speaker 1: loving your kids. And I just think that's like a
Speaker 1: not not an actual Uh, that's a false dichotomy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. Man. It takes intentional living for us to
Speaker 1: not go down the path of least resistance. Right. If
Speaker 1: we're not thinking about things that we're not proactively steering,
Speaker 1: you know what direction our lives are gonna go, and
Speaker 1: we're likely going to do similar things as those around us. Right.
Speaker 1: Another reason that I think sometimes we can feel pressured
Speaker 1: into saving for our kids colleges. I mean, just generally speaking,
Speaker 1: we do want the best for our kids. Right. The
Speaker 1: research shows that higher education leads to making more money
Speaker 1: over time. But just because that's what the research shows,
Speaker 1: this doesn't mean that you, as a parent, that you
Speaker 1: should automatically be footing the bill. And you know, again,
Speaker 1: like we are fans of college, and so by all means,
Speaker 1: let's encourage our kids to go to college if they
Speaker 1: want to, but there and even if they don't want to,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's probably something that we should encourage,
Speaker 1: but there are lots of different ways to cover those costs.
Speaker 1: And also, man, you know, a part of one of
Speaker 1: the best opportunities for kids is the desire to protect
Speaker 1: them from the devastating effects of student loans. Uh. You
Speaker 1: might feel that it's better for you to take that
Speaker 1: financial hit. You're thinking, they don't even have a job. Uh,
Speaker 1: and so you think, Okay, I'm certainly going to be
Speaker 1: in a better position than they will be. But that
Speaker 1: may not be the case. That may not be true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, if one of my kids
Speaker 1: needed it, I'd give him my kidney, right, like I
Speaker 1: do something like that you can live with just one exactly,
Speaker 1: and so I think like that this is like the
Speaker 1: same mentality applies, like, well, I don't want him to
Speaker 1: go through life with just one kidney, don't want to
Speaker 1: go through life with like just massive amounts of student loans.
Speaker 1: And I understand that desire, Like that makes sense, Like
Speaker 1: I don't want my kids to go through you know,
Speaker 1: life with a massive debt load either, But there are
Speaker 1: other ways to come about that. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: that in just a second. So actually, this maye think
Speaker 1: of another potential reason that I think we feel pressured
Speaker 1: to maybe pay for our kids college. And that's also
Speaker 1: because if we were in the situations where our parents
Speaker 1: did that for us, right, So you know, in your
Speaker 1: kidney example, maybe think about that. But like if that
Speaker 1: was done for you, it kind of makes you and
Speaker 1: it might encourage you to kind of pay it forward
Speaker 1: because you think, oh, well, this is how we go
Speaker 1: about doing things. But again, do you know what your
Speaker 1: parents financial situation was when they completely flitted the bill
Speaker 1: for your Ivy League education. You might be in a
Speaker 1: very different situation than they were in at the time,
Speaker 1: that's right, Yeah, And I think especially as tuition prices
Speaker 1: have risen over the last few decades, and I think
Speaker 1: for some parents it almost feels like unethical to bring
Speaker 1: a child into this world and then saddle them with
Speaker 1: tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in student
Speaker 1: loan debt that they'll likely accrue, you know, in the
Speaker 1: in the process of getting a degree. And while I
Speaker 1: can understand that mindset, it it really just isn't in
Speaker 1: either or scenario. You can love your child well and
Speaker 1: you can help them avoid an insane deat burden without
Speaker 1: hurting your own personal finances in a big way in
Speaker 1: the process. That's right, dude. Yeah, And all these things
Speaker 1: that we encounter, right, whether it's like our own beliefs,
Speaker 1: just the media that we consume, the messaging that is
Speaker 1: communicated to us, or even the conversations that we have
Speaker 1: with with other parents. Maybe you're sitting there at the
Speaker 1: you know, the ball field or something like that, and
Speaker 1: they're talking about how you know, they've stalked away like
Speaker 1: grand already and their kids like three, and you're like, wait,
Speaker 1: what that sounds like too much. I'm way behind. But
Speaker 1: you know, peer pressure, right, Like, all these things have
Speaker 1: an effect on us. All these things unite to create
Speaker 1: the cultural pressure to pay for your kids college. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know this is assuming that you're in the
Speaker 1: financial position that you're even able to pay. But like
Speaker 1: we we often stay here on the show just because
Speaker 1: you can do something, that doesn't mean that you should.
Speaker 1: So after the break, we're gonna make an argument for
Speaker 1: why you shouldn't be saving fe your kids college. We'll
Speaker 1: get to that right after this all we're back, Matt,
Speaker 1: let's keep hating on college. M not actually hating on college,
Speaker 1: just hating on saving up way too much money and
Speaker 1: hurting your own personal finances in the process to pay
Speaker 1: for your kids college, especially when that's just the default
Speaker 1: way of thinking, when you haven't given it the thought
Speaker 1: that you need to. We always want to challenge the
Speaker 1: status quo. That's right, and I think, like, yeah, the
Speaker 1: most important reason that we would say that you should
Speaker 1: avoid saving for college, why it's overrated, is that scholarships
Speaker 1: in financial aid don't exist when it comes to your
Speaker 1: retirement for your kids. There are a lot of different
Speaker 1: options till lower the cost of college. There are a
Speaker 1: million ways to skin that cat. They go to a
Speaker 1: cheaper school, they can hunt for more scholarships, they can
Speaker 1: work part time or even full time. Oh gasp, don't
Speaker 1: say it ain't so, you know, while while they're in school, Uh,
Speaker 1: they can become a resident assistant, right to help pay
Speaker 1: and let send some of the costs for for lodging.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so many ways to go about
Speaker 1: lowering the cost of college. They can even join the military,
Speaker 1: like if that's something they're interested in, Uh, in order
Speaker 1: to pursue that higher education at minimal cost. There are
Speaker 1: also just a lot of smart ways to score more money,
Speaker 1: more financial aid from universities in the application process. We
Speaker 1: talked about that in more detail with Ron Lieber from
Speaker 1: The New York Times on episode three seven, and then
Speaker 1: Matt's on top of that, even after your child graduates,
Speaker 1: some employers will help pay down those student loans, and
Speaker 1: public service loan forgiveness is an option for those willing
Speaker 1: to work in public service sector for a decade. So
Speaker 1: I feel like with all those things, when it comes
Speaker 1: to saving for the decades that you're not gonna be
Speaker 1: working for your own retirement, you can't count on Social
Speaker 1: Security alone to get you through that. Right, there are
Speaker 1: much fewer options than all the options that are available
Speaker 1: to kids. Right, It's basically up to you to save
Speaker 1: an invest in your four own k in your I
Speaker 1: ra A. There aren't really other options, Like there is
Speaker 1: no scholarship or financial aid for quitning work someday. But yeah,
Speaker 1: with all of those resources, all those different ways that
Speaker 1: you can lower or completely even eliminate the cost of college,
Speaker 1: to me, that's the number one reason to make saving
Speaker 1: for college almost like a last priority in your financial life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are so many different avenues that your kids can
Speaker 1: explore when it comes to, you know, finding creative ways
Speaker 1: to pay for college. And especially if your finances aren't
Speaker 1: up to enough, then we would recommend that you definitely
Speaker 1: don't save for college. If say, you've got it quite
Speaker 1: a bit of debts. Uh, you have no business saving
Speaker 1: for your kids higher education. Uh, you gotta take care
Speaker 1: of your own credit card debt. You need to take
Speaker 1: care of your own car loan and even your own
Speaker 1: student loans first, right, Like, you don't need to start
Speaker 1: saving for your kids college when you haven't even paid
Speaker 1: off your own college exactly. Also, if your retirement savings
Speaker 1: have barely begun, or maybe they're just paltry, well, don't
Speaker 1: save for your kids educational future. You need to make
Speaker 1: sure that you're saving for your own future. It's wise
Speaker 1: to operate from a position of financial strength when you're
Speaker 1: looking to help others with their money. Joel, This is
Speaker 1: this example is often used, but they always talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, making sure that you've got your own oxygen
Speaker 1: mask on your face in case of flight difficulties or
Speaker 1: something like that before you help those around you. And
Speaker 1: the same thing is true when it comes to your
Speaker 1: own finances. Yeah, and you have the idea that you
Speaker 1: can help your kid through school, you know, without taking
Speaker 1: on much debt by saving for their college, But then
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to help you out with your retirement.
Speaker 1: That's a worst position to put your kid in. I
Speaker 1: think better to have them have to figure out the
Speaker 1: college thing than them have to figure out your retirement thing.
Speaker 1: But but it's also important I think to point out
Speaker 1: that the less you're able to save for your kids,
Speaker 1: the more trade offs you're gonna have to make. But
Speaker 1: we actually think that can be better for your kids
Speaker 1: to have to make sacrifices and think long and hard
Speaker 1: about those trade offs. I know, we want to give
Speaker 1: our kids the moon, right. We want our kids to
Speaker 1: have everything that they need. And lots of things that
Speaker 1: they want to but that usually isn't the best move
Speaker 1: for them. All you gotta do, matt Is, watch one
Speaker 1: of my favorite movies of all time, Willy Wonka and
Speaker 1: the Chocolate Factory, and you can see what happens to
Speaker 1: spoil kids. You know you like the original one too, right,
Speaker 1: you're not a huge fan of the new Johnny deppin,
Speaker 1: I just pretend that one doesn't exist. Well, it's true though, dude,
Speaker 1: Like if you always hand everything to your kids, kids
Speaker 1: on a platter, Uh, they don't value the things that
Speaker 1: they're given, right Like, And it makes sense to that
Speaker 1: this applies to college because for twelve years, kids essentially
Speaker 1: go to school for free, right. I mean, we pay taxes,
Speaker 1: but we don't directly pay and so therefore I don't
Speaker 1: think we value it, probably nearly as much as if
Speaker 1: we had to pay for it out of pocket. Right.
Speaker 1: In some instances, I bet we actually as parents signal that, oh,
Speaker 1: school is not that important. You know, It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we can kick off, you know for a few days,
Speaker 1: and you know, take a trip, take a family trip.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the family trip isn't important. All
Speaker 1: I'm saying is that it can be difficult for kids
Speaker 1: to fully appreciate and value higher education. Yeah, so I think, yeah, life,
Speaker 1: life is this continual series of trade offs, right, And
Speaker 1: we don't want to hand everything to our kids just
Speaker 1: because they want it. Just because they want to go
Speaker 1: to the most expensive school out there doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: that should be our goal to and that that's what's
Speaker 1: best for the family. So yeah, why why not instead
Speaker 1: be there with them as they encounter some of these
Speaker 1: really important trade offs, some of these really important decisions
Speaker 1: early on in their adult life. Your kids can graduate
Speaker 1: college without debt, just by being intentional and with some
Speaker 1: help from you. I feel like Matt. Sometimes parents believe
Speaker 1: that student loans are the only option that then if
Speaker 1: they don't say for their kids college, the only other
Speaker 1: outcome is just a huge amount of student debt for
Speaker 1: their kids. But there are so many other potential outcomes
Speaker 1: in the middle that it doesn't have to be all
Speaker 1: one or all the other. Yeah, man. And another reason
Speaker 1: that that we think saving for college is overrated. Traditionally,
Speaker 1: you save for college in a five twenty nine plan,
Speaker 1: and these plans are specifically tailored for higher education costs.
Speaker 1: But the problem is that college doesn't make sense for
Speaker 1: all kids out there, And if you don't use the
Speaker 1: funds in your five plan for college, then you're stuck
Speaker 1: paying a hefty penalty in order to rescue that money
Speaker 1: that's stashed there. So if your if your child chooses
Speaker 1: a different plan of action then going to college, it's
Speaker 1: going to be financially frustrating if you've prioritized college savings
Speaker 1: too highly. But it's important to point out that you know,
Speaker 1: if your kids opt to forego college, it might be
Speaker 1: in their their own best interests. There are tons of
Speaker 1: alternatives to four year college degrees out there. Yeah, foregoing
Speaker 1: college might be in their best interest as a human
Speaker 1: being and in their best interest financially, right, because there
Speaker 1: are a lot of lucrative opportunities for people who don't
Speaker 1: go to college if it's done in the right way,
Speaker 1: I think, and I think blue collar work is one
Speaker 1: of those ways. Matt like, the cool thing about the
Speaker 1: skilled trades is that a lot of folks working with
Speaker 1: their hands have little to no school debt and they
Speaker 1: start generating income sooner. And since there's just like this
Speaker 1: massive dearth of blue collar workers out there, pay rates
Speaker 1: have gone up in a big way too, and the
Speaker 1: blue collar route makes more and more sense for lots
Speaker 1: of kids that are inclined in that direction. And so, yeah,
Speaker 1: if people want to learn more about that, we we
Speaker 1: talked with Ken Rusk about blue collar work and how
Speaker 1: you can make more money doing it in episode two
Speaker 1: seventies seven. But I think sometimes, uh, you know, in
Speaker 1: this country, we've been so brainwashed to believe that college
Speaker 1: is the only route for so many kids, that a
Speaker 1: lot of kids go there they accrued, they accrued debt
Speaker 1: that they don't need to, They waste years that they
Speaker 1: don't need to getting an education they're not interested in,
Speaker 1: when they would have been far better served going you know,
Speaker 1: the blue collar direction from the get go. Yeah, not
Speaker 1: only are there great blue collar jobs out there, but
Speaker 1: there are plenty of non manual labor options for for folks,
Speaker 1: like just different technology jobs right that that don't require
Speaker 1: a four year degree. Like I'm thinking, maybe there's a
Speaker 1: kid who's like just really into video games. Well, instead
Speaker 1: of starting to to study for the s A T
Speaker 1: during the summers in high school, maybe try taking a
Speaker 1: a C plus plus course or another coding course. But
Speaker 1: consider some of these alternatives to just solely focusing on
Speaker 1: college because I think not only can you find uh
Speaker 1: lucrative page well like you mentioned too, but like you
Speaker 1: can just find a lot of fulfillment in these professions.
Speaker 1: And it only makes even more sense if you already
Speaker 1: have an interest in those specific topics. Yeah, entrepreneurship is
Speaker 1: another route. You can be a blue collar entrepreneur. You
Speaker 1: can mix mix both, right, You can kind of start
Speaker 1: your own business on the side, or you can start
Speaker 1: another business. Do you believe meets a problem that needs solving.
Speaker 1: So like, with all the information I think to Matt
Speaker 1: that's available to our kids these days, they don't necessarily
Speaker 1: have to go to a liberal arts college in order
Speaker 1: to begin to experience all that's out there. It's not
Speaker 1: that the internet replaces the need for higher education, but
Speaker 1: I feel like it does allow the opportunity for kids
Speaker 1: to discover some of the things that they might be
Speaker 1: passionate about a little bit cheaper in an earlier age too,
Speaker 1: without having to pay a ton for for that college degree.
Speaker 1: I feel like the first couple of years of college
Speaker 1: for at least our generation, right, that's when we kind
Speaker 1: of started to figure out what courses were being offered
Speaker 1: what other people were pursuing, and we kind of started
Speaker 1: to get that idea for ourselves. But kids these days,
Speaker 1: there's so much at their fingertips that they can kind
Speaker 1: of like scratch the itch on some of their curiosities
Speaker 1: even earlier in life than ever before, and that can actually,
Speaker 1: I think, lead them down the direction of entrepreneurship even
Speaker 1: sooner before they even have to set foot on a
Speaker 1: college campus. That's right, man. And so another reason too
Speaker 1: that we we think that saving for college is overrated.
Speaker 1: Who knows how far a college degree will get a
Speaker 1: student after they graduate, right, Like, we don't know the
Speaker 1: future per se. And to be honest, like that could
Speaker 1: be an excuse to avoid doing lots of different things
Speaker 1: because you can just say, well, like, who knows what
Speaker 1: the stock market's gonna do. I don't know, I don't
Speaker 1: I shouldn't invest. Who knows what the future holds. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna see here, I'm a bomb exactly. But it's
Speaker 1: true that college might not be as an attractive of
Speaker 1: a choice in ten the fifteen years. Right now, the
Speaker 1: math still works for lots of kids to get a
Speaker 1: college degree, but as the cost of college continues to rise, Uh,
Speaker 1: we we feel that it's not as much of a
Speaker 1: slam dunk because it used to be. It used to
Speaker 1: be to work, getting a degree that meant pretty much
Speaker 1: by default, you're gonna get a you know, pretty nice,
Speaker 1: high paying job. But these days, getting a degree doesn't
Speaker 1: automatically mean that you're gonna get a higher income like
Speaker 1: it used to. Yeah, college degree used to equal ticket
Speaker 1: to the middle class, right at least, and now it
Speaker 1: doesn't in the same way that it used to. Although
Speaker 1: you know, the stats still reveal, like you said, Matt,
Speaker 1: that you do make more money when you have a
Speaker 1: college degree, there are still a lot of other pockets
Speaker 1: that make sense for kids to explore because college isn't
Speaker 1: quite as worthwhile as it used to be. Another thing too,
Speaker 1: to remember when it comes to saving for college, is
Speaker 1: that we can get too caught up in saving for
Speaker 1: the future that we neglect to invest in our kids
Speaker 1: in important ways. Now, like saving for college I think
Speaker 1: can become this like myopic goal, and it's easy to
Speaker 1: forget the real goal, which is to raise kids that
Speaker 1: are going to thrive in the real world. Right, So
Speaker 1: maybe instead of like fully funding that five account or
Speaker 1: even putting any money towards it. Consider spending more money
Speaker 1: during the years that your kids live under your roof
Speaker 1: to help grow their skills and their awareness. It's not
Speaker 1: that saving for your kids college is the worst thing
Speaker 1: in the world. I think it's just that people oftentimes
Speaker 1: focus so hard on that they neglect some of the
Speaker 1: experiences and places that they could be spending money now
Speaker 1: on their kids that are going to actually have a
Speaker 1: bigger impact on their ability to be productive citizens of
Speaker 1: the world. That's right, Yeah, I mean you've got to
Speaker 1: be balanced, right, And in a similar way that we
Speaker 1: value craft beer, right, I mean, that's that's part of
Speaker 1: why we have a craft beer on every episode, because
Speaker 1: we want to demonstrate that we're trying to seek after
Speaker 1: balance when it comes to saving for retirement, because if
Speaker 1: you're only focused on retirement, right, like that magical fifty
Speaker 1: nine and a half, you might get to that point
Speaker 1: in your life and realize that like, oh, I guess
Speaker 1: I should find some hobbies, Like, like, I don't really
Speaker 1: have a life, I don't have many relationships in my life,
Speaker 1: And so that's what we want to try to avoid
Speaker 1: when it comes to our kids as well. And so
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of like family trips like learning an instrument,
Speaker 1: you know, playing sports like these are all examples of
Speaker 1: spending money that can help your kids become more well rounded.
Speaker 1: And if you neglect those things in favor of building
Speaker 1: a nine nest egg like that might be more of
Speaker 1: a short sighted move. So chances are, if you're listening
Speaker 1: to this episode, like you're into personal finance, right and
Speaker 1: as you know, self professing personal finance nerds ourselves like
Speaker 1: I can admit that it can be tempting to focus
Speaker 1: on the money, the dollar amount in that nest egg,
Speaker 1: rather than the intangible benefits that come with intentional and
Speaker 1: quality time that we can spend with our kids. Money
Speaker 1: isn't the fix for every single problem out there, and
Speaker 1: so look to other ways to expand your kids horizons
Speaker 1: beyond just assuming that a college degree is going to
Speaker 1: be key for them to grow up into a happy,
Speaker 1: functioning adults. So, all that being said, saving for college,
Speaker 1: though it does make sense for some folks, it might
Speaker 1: make sense for a lot of folks, and so we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about when that is, when it actually does
Speaker 1: make sense free to save for your kids college, and
Speaker 1: then how to go about it. Right after this, all right,
Speaker 1: we're back and Matt. Of course, we do believe that
Speaker 1: saving for college is overrated. We wouldn't put it on
Speaker 1: the tireless episode if we didn't believe that. But we've
Speaker 1: also relegated saving for your kids college to money get
Speaker 1: number seven. Like literally, we did an episode at the
Speaker 1: beginning of this year, episode three or two. We talked
Speaker 1: about the seven money gears and you know when to
Speaker 1: do what with your money and money gear number seven
Speaker 1: is the last year and only if you're there, should
Speaker 1: you even be considering, uh, say, being any money for
Speaker 1: your kids college. We would say, that's how that's how
Speaker 1: overrated it is. It should be the last thing that
Speaker 1: you consider. Exactly. Yeah, it's it's in that like I
Speaker 1: want to travel more and I want to say for
Speaker 1: my kids college, Like those two things go together. I
Speaker 1: think you know that those two things are in the
Speaker 1: same money gear. But if you are crushing it, if
Speaker 1: your finances are checking along, you've done a great job
Speaker 1: investing for your own retirement, you don't have any of
Speaker 1: that nasty credit card or student loan debt hanging around.
Speaker 1: Then let's talk about how to go about saving for
Speaker 1: your kids college in the most effective ways. Because Yeah,
Speaker 1: there are some people, Matt who are doing a great
Speaker 1: job with their personal finances. They want to start investing
Speaker 1: for their kids college future. I understand that five plans,
Speaker 1: we would say, are the best vehicle for doing so.
Speaker 1: They aren't the only way. We're gonna talk about other
Speaker 1: methods in a second too, but we should at least
Speaker 1: start with five to nine plans first because they were
Speaker 1: created for this very purpose. So yeah, kind of kick
Speaker 1: us off. We'll talk about the pros and cons of
Speaker 1: opening a five plan for your kids. Yeah, so plans,
Speaker 1: I mean, the biggest reason that folks are opening these
Speaker 1: is because of the tax break that you receive. Right,
Speaker 1: All five twenty nine plans offer tax breaks on the
Speaker 1: earnings that happened to be invested inside of that plan. So,
Speaker 1: for example, if you invest ten thousand dollars and then
Speaker 1: it grows to forty dollars over the years, you will
Speaker 1: never pay tax on your earnings if you use those
Speaker 1: funds for qualified expenses. And uh. In some states that
Speaker 1: have state income taxes actually offered the additional incentive of
Speaker 1: a tax break on the contributions that you make, and
Speaker 1: so that's the case in the state of Georgia. As
Speaker 1: well as more than thirty other states. So there are
Speaker 1: a lot of states that have five twenty nine plans.
Speaker 1: And so while you don't receive a federal deduction on
Speaker 1: the amount of money that you invest into five uh yeah,
Speaker 1: for a lot of states, you do get a state
Speaker 1: benefit if you reside within the states. Yeah, And so
Speaker 1: I think that that's the main reason. I think if
Speaker 1: you're if you're doing well financially, to open a five
Speaker 1: twenty nine account. It's like my kids in all likelihood
Speaker 1: going to go to college. Most of the people in
Speaker 1: our family did, and so we're gonna start saving now,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get the tax break. And I think
Speaker 1: that's a reasonable reason to open a five twenty nine
Speaker 1: plan and start that process. You can even use a
Speaker 1: site like backer dot com to solicit contributions from your
Speaker 1: friends and family, And so I think, Matt, this is
Speaker 1: like perfect for a lot of people who maybe you're
Speaker 1: tired of getting a bunch of gifts they create clutter
Speaker 1: around like birthdays and holidays. Um, you're talking to the
Speaker 1: right guy, the guy who hates clutter in pieces of
Speaker 1: junk and plastic in his home. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so yeah, we're we're right now in the process
Speaker 1: of downsizing our kids toy collection because it's just gotten
Speaker 1: out of hand and and like that hang quickly. And
Speaker 1: I know, like my parents are gonna want to get
Speaker 1: them some sort of toy for the birthday this summer,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna be like one toy limit. And and
Speaker 1: maybe if you want to give them more, maybe contribute
Speaker 1: to their five account. Right, that's a perfect way like
Speaker 1: it to destructure this is to say, ask your loved
Speaker 1: ones maybe too to contribute to the five twenty nine
Speaker 1: plan that you've started in lieu of additional presence. But
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna need to let them give them one
Speaker 1: or they're not gonna be not gonna be happy. But yeah,
Speaker 1: five nine plans I think make a whole lot more
Speaker 1: sense when you have other people, other loved ones who
Speaker 1: are able to contribute. We'll put a link to that
Speaker 1: in the show notes. But that's an easy way to
Speaker 1: allow them to to contribute on your kid's behalf. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So that's the biggest advantage of a five twenty nine
Speaker 1: plan is that those earnings grow tax free, but you
Speaker 1: do pay tax, you know, on the on the front end.
Speaker 1: So essentially it's kind of like a roth ira a
Speaker 1: where uh you get that tax break on the back end,
Speaker 1: you don't ever have to worry about, you know, paying
Speaker 1: tax on that money as long as you use it
Speaker 1: for the right thing. That's the strongest argument four five
Speaker 1: nine plan. But the biggest reason to avoid these plans
Speaker 1: is something that we've already touched on. But if you
Speaker 1: have kids who don't end up going to college and
Speaker 1: you want to use those funds for other reasons, then
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to pay for it. And so non
Speaker 1: qualified distributions get hit with income tax plus an extra
Speaker 1: ten percent penalty on those earnings. And so that means
Speaker 1: that median households right now in the U S could
Speaker 1: be paying between twenty two uh tot Like that is
Speaker 1: a big bite out of that five twenty nine nest egg.
Speaker 1: If your kids happen to not go to college. There
Speaker 1: is some good news though, right if if your child
Speaker 1: gets a full scholarship to college, then you you actually
Speaker 1: won't have to pay the penalty at least that you
Speaker 1: can avoid that ten percent, but you will still have
Speaker 1: to pay income tax on that money, and that's also
Speaker 1: up to that scholarship dollar amount. But you know, in general,
Speaker 1: we we we do feel that the tax benefits of
Speaker 1: five twenty nine plans are often oversold. For instance, let's
Speaker 1: say you instead invested that money in a brokerage account,
Speaker 1: you would be subject to a fifteen percent capital you know,
Speaker 1: gains rate for most folks. Uh. And while you know
Speaker 1: that's more than zero, it's also not the end of
Speaker 1: the world. I guess what I'm saying is that if
Speaker 1: you're not sure what it is that your kids are
Speaker 1: gonna do, like maybe you don't have a history of
Speaker 1: your family members going to college, maybe you have a
Speaker 1: strong history of skilled labors or or artists, you know,
Speaker 1: different folks who have maybe started their own businesses, then
Speaker 1: maybe investing that money in a brokerage account might be
Speaker 1: a smarter move for you. You You know, we we do
Speaker 1: feel that avoiding taxes is smart. Right. Anytime you can
Speaker 1: do that and you know that you're gonna come out ahead,
Speaker 1: we would recommend that. But this is an instance where
Speaker 1: you know you don't want to have the tail wag
Speaker 1: the dog. In this case, you don't want to walk
Speaker 1: a way those funds within the five twenty nine plan
Speaker 1: uh and then be forced to pay a lot of
Speaker 1: money in taxes or penalties because your kids don't actually
Speaker 1: end up going to college. Yeah, that's like the worst
Speaker 1: possible scenario that you don't want to find yourself in
Speaker 1: or not, I mean not the worst like that could
Speaker 1: be like trapped in a cave alone or something like
Speaker 1: that. That That would be much much worse. That specifically would
Speaker 1: be probably the worst thing for you. Probably actually come
Speaker 1: up with a with a laundry list of things over
Speaker 1: your words. But yeah, that is like when it comes
Speaker 1: to a tax and money perspective, that's that's a bad thing, right.
Speaker 1: You don't want to contribute a bunch of money to
Speaker 1: the five nine account that you're not going to be
Speaker 1: able to use, and that is I think Matt, you're
Speaker 1: right that it's one of the biggest downsides. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about two other ways that you can save for your
Speaker 1: kids college. It doesn't have to be a five twenty
Speaker 1: nine plan. There are other methods that are more flexible.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about now. Are not accounts specifically created
Speaker 1: to help you, say for your kids college, and that's
Speaker 1: the five account, But there are other methods that you
Speaker 1: can use that are going to crush you if those
Speaker 1: funds don't end up going to to help pay for
Speaker 1: your kids college. The roth Ira is such a great vehicle.
Speaker 1: We're big fans of it saving for your own retirement,
Speaker 1: and it offers more flexibility than the five plan two.
Speaker 1: And that's a check mark in favor of going in
Speaker 1: that direction over the plan direction, and a checkmark over
Speaker 1: rowerdge accounts. Yeah, I mean I just mentioned that, just
Speaker 1: like taxable brokerage accounts. But like if you have access
Speaker 1: to a rath I mean, and you're not already maxing
Speaker 1: it out, like yeah, yeah, then that should come first,
Speaker 1: definitely before a brokerage account. Yeah, and before and if
Speaker 1: you're under the age of fifty nine and a half
Speaker 1: when you're gonna need some of that money to help
Speaker 1: pay for your kids schooling, you can pull out contributions
Speaker 1: without paying any tax or penalty. You can also pull
Speaker 1: any earnings too. You will have to pay income tax
Speaker 1: on that money, but if it's used for college, you
Speaker 1: get to avoid the temper cent roth Ira early withdraw penalty.
Speaker 1: It's still important to tread carefully when you're using the
Speaker 1: roth ira uh money in your roth Ira for this purpose,
Speaker 1: because you're likely going to need a big chunk of
Speaker 1: that money to fund your own retirement. So it's not
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like you're you're hoping
Speaker 1: to use that for your kids college. You're still hoping
Speaker 1: that they're able to go to school cheaply enough, right,
Speaker 1: and that you can find enough financial aid to lower
Speaker 1: the burden and that you can hold onto your ira
Speaker 1: A money for your own retirement. Um, but it is,
Speaker 1: I would say for almost everyone, it's a better account
Speaker 1: to be filling up before you even open the five Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh and then do Let's let's mention one avenue that
Speaker 1: you and I are partial to. Real estate investing can
Speaker 1: can be another route to help pay for college. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't have to go the conventional route necessarily like
Speaker 1: roth iras E accounts. They're great. But you know what,
Speaker 1: if you love real estate investing like we do, dude,
Speaker 1: I love the idea of building up a steady stream
Speaker 1: of income over time via rental properties. That money can
Speaker 1: help you increase your current income and it can be
Speaker 1: used as a way to fund bigger lump some costs
Speaker 1: like college down the road. You can either use the
Speaker 1: recurring cash flow to help pay for your kids college expenses,
Speaker 1: or you can even sell a property to pay a
Speaker 1: tuition bill in full. Real estate investing isn't necessarily going
Speaker 1: to be for everyone out there, but for those of
Speaker 1: you who do have an interest in real estate, this
Speaker 1: could be another way of thinking about paying for college
Speaker 1: down the road. Look at a specific property, maybe assigned
Speaker 1: that property to do a kid boom, you got college
Speaker 1: taken care of us, right, Yeah. Especially, let's say your
Speaker 1: kids three years old, they're going to college in fifteen years,
Speaker 1: and if you if you really want to pay for
Speaker 1: it in one lump sum, what you can say is like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna get a fifteen year mortgage and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know, make a little bit of money
Speaker 1: every month on the spread. And then in fifteen years,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sell this house and I'm going to use
Speaker 1: that to fund their college. Like that's the one way
Speaker 1: of thinking about it, right, There's a million ways to
Speaker 1: skin this cat, Like assuming that they go to the
Speaker 1: most expensive college of all times, right, because the way
Speaker 1: real estate properties are going these days, that should be
Speaker 1: more than enough to pay for college. But then again,
Speaker 1: who knows what college is going to cost, uh eighteen
Speaker 1: years and so so, man, I think you know infammation,
Speaker 1: save me for college can be a nice thing to
Speaker 1: do for your kids, But you don't have to save
Speaker 1: for your child's college education to be a good parents.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what a lot of people feel
Speaker 1: innately right now, is like if I don't, I'm not
Speaker 1: a great parent, or I'm not doing what other people
Speaker 1: are doing for for their kids, and so I'm not
Speaker 1: sacrificing enough, not feeling the pain. I'm like a B
Speaker 1: minus or a C plus on the parenting scale. And
Speaker 1: that's just not true. And of course it's hard to
Speaker 1: reach all of the financial goals that we want to achieve.
Speaker 1: It'd be nice, right if we could max out our
Speaker 1: four O one k I RA playing nhs A like
Speaker 1: that would be that would be like a perfect ideal world, right,
Speaker 1: if you can do all the above, But it's important
Speaker 1: to not let your financial priorities get out of order.
Speaker 1: If you can take that all the above approach, more
Speaker 1: power do you like if you're if you've got that
Speaker 1: kind of income and that kind of frugality level, like congratulations,
Speaker 1: But you are the anomaly in this conversation. And there
Speaker 1: are a lot of reasons that saving for college isn't
Speaker 1: all it's cracked up to be, even though it's a
Speaker 1: worthwhile goal to have in the future, as your personal
Speaker 1: financial situation continues to get stronger as you build wealth,
Speaker 1: maybe down the road you can start to put away
Speaker 1: little dribs and drabs, you know, open up a five
Speaker 1: account maybe. But it's a really low priority in in
Speaker 1: the scheme of things, that's right, man. Yes, hopefully we
Speaker 1: have adequately convinced you that saving for college is overrated.
Speaker 1: That's something that, uh, you can do, but it's not
Speaker 1: something that you have to do, all right, Joel, Let's
Speaker 1: get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed
Speaker 1: on this episode. This beer is technically a homebrew from
Speaker 1: our friend Jess and and he brews under the Moniker
Speaker 1: easy Chair brewing garage. Uh, and this is what he
Speaker 1: calls his bass stout recipe that went through a second
Speaker 1: fermentation with coconut shavings. Joel, what were your thoughts on
Speaker 1: this beer? So I think he was actually gonna name
Speaker 1: this beer Matt is my favorite how to Money house,
Speaker 1: but he didn't want to make me feel bad, and
Speaker 1: so I appreciate that. Jess, but that would have been
Speaker 1: a good name for this one. But I thought this
Speaker 1: was really good. Dude. One should have just been called
Speaker 1: Matt and then we're actually gonna have another one by him,
Speaker 1: and he could have just called that one. Joel, that's
Speaker 1: that's the peach Sheltzer. I feel like you kind of
Speaker 1: got this peach summertime vibes going on, Joel. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a compliment or not. Yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: it's probably both at once, and I'll like it. I'm
Speaker 1: fine with that. But man, I really like this one
Speaker 1: because it had an adjunct, which is just anything else
Speaker 1: you put into a stout, like you know, like coconut
Speaker 1: and coffee. Sometimes it's a popular adjunct when it comes
Speaker 1: to stouts, but sometimes breweries overdo it, and I feel
Speaker 1: like the pastry stouts are a prime example of that.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like I'm actually eating a doughnut and it
Speaker 1: it feels like too much. It's overwhelming, and I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: I actually want to taste the beer. I actually want
Speaker 1: to taste the stout, not just the sprinkles it Like,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to actually have to chew my beer
Speaker 1: this time. But but yeah, you're saying that that's not
Speaker 1: the case. This time, but sometimes we do have stouts
Speaker 1: that are like that where it's just seriously too thick
Speaker 1: this is on beer. But yeah, I agree, man, it's
Speaker 1: got like the perfect amount of coconut going on. He
Speaker 1: was light on the touch with the coconut, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's there, it's present, it's adding something lovely.
Speaker 1: But the stout the base itself is just really delicious too.
Speaker 1: So man, I think Jess is getting his game together
Speaker 1: seriously on the homebrewnk. A lot of times when it
Speaker 1: comes to homebrews, like there's a different scale in my
Speaker 1: mind because like it's always like no for for homebrew,
Speaker 1: this is pretty good, but this, like this is like
Speaker 1: for a beer, this is good, Like I would pay
Speaker 1: for this. Uh. This actually reminds me Creature Comforts that
Speaker 1: they released a bunch of kind of special stouts there
Speaker 1: in there at the brewery that they don't ever release
Speaker 1: or bottle or can or anything like that, And this
Speaker 1: reminds me of one that I had actually there in
Speaker 1: the brewery. But like it almost has a milky quality
Speaker 1: to it. It's just really smooth, almost almost creamy, like
Speaker 1: you said, the coconuts just right. I feel like it
Speaker 1: tastes kind of like their their cocoa bunny porter. Oh
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that's it, like I was, I think I
Speaker 1: was picturing like I can't remember, like the tree that
Speaker 1: owns itself or something like that. They've got all these
Speaker 1: different stouts there, but it does. It kind of has
Speaker 1: that cocoa bunny action going on. This is a really
Speaker 1: great stout and it deserves a name. Uh we should. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we gotta convince Jess to name his beers. This one
Speaker 1: he just labeled number one since since he gave his
Speaker 1: two beers. But uh, yeah, this one's really good. I'm
Speaker 1: glad that he donated this one to the show. And
Speaker 1: again even though he donated it, like I would by
Speaker 1: this beer in the store. Totally Yeah, I feel like
Speaker 1: we already named it for him. Matt is my favorite
Speaker 1: and how the Money House, and I'm gonna agree with him,
Speaker 1: You're you're my favorite. How the Money House? Too sweet?
Speaker 1: All right, Well, that's gonna do it for the love
Speaker 1: fest and in this episode. But for folks that want
Speaker 1: show notes and some of the resources that we we
Speaker 1: mentioned on this episode, just go to our website at
Speaker 1: how to money dot com. They'll be up there for you.
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Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode. Until next time,
Speaker 1: best Friends Out and best Friends Out