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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and

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Speaker 1: Matt's and today we're discussing why saving for college is overrated? Dude,

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Speaker 1: saving for college so overrated? You know, you actually wanted

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Speaker 1: to call this episode college is overrated. College sucks? Why

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Speaker 1: I hate education in general? College is the worst? You know,

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Speaker 1: we decided to take a less controversial title for this episode.

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Speaker 1: But we do think that saving for college that it

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Speaker 1: might be overrated, that for some folks in particular, there

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Speaker 1: should definitely be other things that take priority over saving

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Speaker 1: for college. But also too, man, just we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: through some of the different benefits of not saving for

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Speaker 1: for your kids college. We think that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: that you can gain by taking some other paths, or

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Speaker 1: at least considering those other paths, right, because I think

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Speaker 1: oftentimes it can the mindset is just like, oh, it's

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Speaker 1: a slam dunk decision you gotta say for your kids college,

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Speaker 1: and that in particular, that's what we want to push

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Speaker 1: back against us. Right, We're gonna do that in today's episode.

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Speaker 1: But first, Matt, before we get to that, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to mention I was messaging with a buddy recently. His

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Speaker 1: name is Jess and we're actually about to have a

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Speaker 1: beer that he made on the show today. But he

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Speaker 1: he told me that his friend especially made his own

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Speaker 1: solo stove, and I'm not I'm not sure if anybody's

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Speaker 1: seen the solo stoves. Are these like really cool stainless

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Speaker 1: steel looking smokeless fire pits, and they're like three D

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Speaker 1: plus dollars. They're they're pretty expensive. They are premium outdoor

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Speaker 1: toys for for those who like to play the fire

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Speaker 1: in a safe way. And a lot of people got these,

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Speaker 1: you know, fire pits during the pandemic because outdoor hangs, right,

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Speaker 1: And we almost got one ourselves, but instead we opted

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Speaker 1: for the woodburning stove, not the solo stove, which I'll

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Speaker 1: describe it by the way. It's like the stainless steel

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Speaker 1: like you said, But what makes it special is the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's kind of got these It's insulated, so

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Speaker 1: it's double walled, that's got these special holes in it,

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Speaker 1: and that allows the heated air to re enter the

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Speaker 1: combustion zone. So essentially any unspent I guess fuel like smoke,

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Speaker 1: instead of smoking up and getting in your eyes and

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Speaker 1: causing you to choke, it ignites that smoke and so

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Speaker 1: that's why they're called smokeless fire pits. It's actually a

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Speaker 1: really cool technology. Yeah, it is cool, and and there

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Speaker 1: are a few manufacturers making fire pits like this now.

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Speaker 1: But but apparently you can make your own and you

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Speaker 1: can make it for like thirty bucks, and they don't

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Speaker 1: look quite as cool. I mean, the solo stoves look

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Speaker 1: really nice. They look really dope. Yeah, they're they're cool.

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Speaker 1: But you can you can make your own out of

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Speaker 1: like a giant stockpot essentially and just kind of making

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Speaker 1: your own fabrications. And so yeah, there's a YouTube video

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Speaker 1: that will help you figure out how you can do this.

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Speaker 1: It looks like it takes a little bit of time,

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Speaker 1: a little bit effort, but it's not impossible to do,

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Speaker 1: and it will save you a ton of money. Five

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Speaker 1: bucks man, that's not bad for having your own smokeless

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Speaker 1: fire pit. And I know, by the way, that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about this in June and it's hot and most

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Speaker 1: parts of the country, but you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it might take you a few months to get it

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Speaker 1: ready and uh and and then you'll have it ready

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Speaker 1: for the fall. Exactly. I haven't ready for the fall,

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Speaker 1: so I will say, do you feel like it's frugal

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Speaker 1: or cheap to make your own solo stove? Oh? I

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Speaker 1: feel like totally frugal, totally frugal. Just three for a

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Speaker 1: fire pit seems expensive. And I like the idea of

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Speaker 1: just a fire pit in the ground too. And I

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Speaker 1: don't mind the smoke personally, but for somebody who wants

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Speaker 1: a smokeless firepit experience. And I was like, I love

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Speaker 1: for my eyes to water, Like I I I'm totally

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Speaker 1: down with people making their own. I think it's um,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a great move. Yeah, I mean, here's

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Speaker 1: my thought is that if you are interested in making

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Speaker 1: your own, then by all means, go for it. But like,

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Speaker 1: if you're just looking to not spend the money, I

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Speaker 1: think that. I mean, you definitely need to have the

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Speaker 1: right tools on hand, and in particular too, like it

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Speaker 1: involves a lot of you know, cutting and drilling metal.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever drilled metal, dude, or

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Speaker 1: tried to cut metal, but it can be pretty dicey.

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Speaker 1: And by dicey, I mean you can dice up your fingers.

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Speaker 1: Because uh so that's another aspect of the frugler chieve right, certainly, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: definitely where it gloves. But like if you end up

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Speaker 1: slicing your hand open and you gotta get to the

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Speaker 1: doctor uh to get stitches, well, then it's definitely a

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Speaker 1: cheap move because in the end you've wasted a lot

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Speaker 1: of time and you're bleeding everywhere. I don't want that

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Speaker 1: to happen. No, that's a good point. Yeah, But if

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Speaker 1: you have the tools on hand, and you've got to

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Speaker 1: know how, and it's something in particular that you enjoy doing, right,

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Speaker 1: then by all means, absolutely make your own solo stove.

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Speaker 1: In my opinion, if it's fun, well, it doesn't even

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Speaker 1: matter like if it costs more money, right like, because

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Speaker 1: if that's something that you enjoy doing, then it would

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Speaker 1: be worth your time. It would be a frugal move.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I wouldn't say for folks to do this

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Speaker 1: only to save money, because then I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of times folks can go through a

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Speaker 1: lot of headache, uh and potentially receive a product that

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Speaker 1: may not be quite as you know, quite as nice

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Speaker 1: as like a perfectly manufactured solo stove. Yeah. But for

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Speaker 1: those are that that that like going the d I

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Speaker 1: Y route, I think this is a fun option to try,

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Speaker 1: especially if you were like Man, I should have got

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Speaker 1: a nice fire pit, you know, last last fall, last winter,

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it. And now you can make your

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Speaker 1: own if you're up for it. But let's mention the

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Speaker 1: beer that we're having on on this show, Matt. This

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Speaker 1: is again from our friend Jess. This is UH a

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Speaker 1: coconut stout and he brews under the name Easy Chair

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Speaker 1: Brewing Garage. So yeah, looking forward to having this local

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Speaker 1: beer from from a friend on today's show. And it

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Speaker 1: makes the us too that he would have the stockpot

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Speaker 1: on hand, because when you're doing homebrew, you've you've got

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Speaker 1: lots of metal pots and pans and stuff like that

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Speaker 1: for for all the homebrew. So yeah, I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to drinking this one on the show, sharing it with

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Speaker 1: you and sharing our thoughts at the end of the episode.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, thanks Jess for donating this one

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Speaker 1: to the show. All right, let's move on to the

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Speaker 1: subject at hand, Matt. Today we're talking about why saving

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Speaker 1: for college is overrated, and yeah, it just made me think, Man,

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Speaker 1: as we're preparing for this episode, like, do you remember

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Speaker 1: buying the engagement ring that you got for Kate, do

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Speaker 1: you remember that process totally. Man. I remember doing that obviously.

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Speaker 1: I remember doing it because I you know, when it's

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Speaker 1: a proposed to gay and marry her, but you know,

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Speaker 1: it almost feels like that it's something that you don't

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Speaker 1: even have a choice over, right, Like it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: if you wanna get married, like you gotta buy an

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Speaker 1: engagement right, right, And there's like a huge learning curve.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that comes with buying an engagement ring.

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Speaker 1: I remember learning about like the three c's, the cut, color, clarity,

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Speaker 1: and like diving forces right, like carrot, Oh yeah, carrots too,

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Speaker 1: that's right. See. So yeah, there's four seas I guess,

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Speaker 1: and like diving deep in order to like to buy

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Speaker 1: a nice ring for my wife, one one that she

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Speaker 1: would love. And some of my friends they were about

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Speaker 1: to get engaged at the same time, and we were

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Speaker 1: basically learning from each other, leaning on each other for advice,

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Speaker 1: you know, so and and help because we're all a

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Speaker 1: little bit lost as we were like trying to buy

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Speaker 1: this ring. And like as I was like, you know

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Speaker 1: a guy, right, and actually someone didn't know someone We

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Speaker 1: all used the same person. But like, yeah, as I

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Speaker 1: was researching the rings, there were some things that were

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Speaker 1: hard for me to come to grips with. For instance,

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Speaker 1: there was the cultural pressure to get an engagement ring.

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Speaker 1: The costs three times your monthly income. That was the

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Speaker 1: supposed standard, I guess, And yeah, for that scared me

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Speaker 1: because I'm like a frugal, frugal dude, and I was

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Speaker 1: borderline cheap back then, or maybe not even borderline I

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Speaker 1: was all the way back then. That was the Joel

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Speaker 1: that was asking their friends to pitch in for charcoal

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Speaker 1: when you're inviting them over to to grill out right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was that was definitely a cheap move, not a

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Speaker 1: good friend move. I don't advise it. Those ways are

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Speaker 1: behind you, I hope, so we know they are. You

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Speaker 1: haven't charged me for charcoal in a few years. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like that was such a such a thing

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Speaker 1: to try to try to buy this engagement ring. And

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Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, I was able to to find

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Speaker 1: something that my wife really loved, like this vintage ring,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't actually have to end up spending an

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Speaker 1: arm and a leg in order to show her that

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Speaker 1: I loved her. And I ended up spending just under

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Speaker 1: a month's income instead of like the three months that

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Speaker 1: that some people were prescribing and and I think matt

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Speaker 1: saving for college seems to have taken on like a

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Speaker 1: similar culture dynamic in recent years. It puts a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure on parents to pony up and start saving

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Speaker 1: money that they don't have for their kids future before

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Speaker 1: they're even funding their own. And even though it's summer

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Speaker 1: in school's out, I feel like this is just an

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Speaker 1: important topic for us to be discussing today. Yeah, it's true.

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Speaker 1: And in a sense too, you can almost be extended

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Speaker 1: as another way of saying that, like, oh, here's how

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Speaker 1: much I love you, this is how much money I've

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Speaker 1: said aside, uh, in a similar way that an engagement

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Speaker 1: ring could be misconstrued that way as well. Right. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of parents are wondering how much

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Speaker 1: they need to save in order to be per forming

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Speaker 1: their parental duty properly. But we're gonna we're gonna get

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Speaker 1: a little countercultural here and ask the questions should you

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Speaker 1: be saving for college at all? We're all about preparing

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Speaker 1: ahead of time and ensuring that we're properly saving and

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Speaker 1: investing our money. But for a lot of folks, man,

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Speaker 1: the answer is that they shouldn't be putting any money

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Speaker 1: towards their child's future college expenses. And so today we're

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Speaker 1: gonna discuss the benefits of not saving for your kids

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Speaker 1: college when it does make sense to start putting away

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Speaker 1: money for your kids future, and then also how to

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Speaker 1: actually go about doing it. Yeah. I love that you

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Speaker 1: said the benefits of not saving for your kids college.

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna read that headline anywhere like that. The

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Speaker 1: headlines all push you towards saving more for your kids

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Speaker 1: college and such rebels. But I think that's like such

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Speaker 1: an important, important thing to mention, and so yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the different reasons that we as parents are

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Speaker 1: pressured into saving for our kids college. I think knowing

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Speaker 1: why it is that we might feel hounded to set

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Speaker 1: aside massive sums of money for our kids college for

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Speaker 1: our progenese future education is really the first up to

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Speaker 1: overcoming that line of thinking. Yeah, that's right. And one

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Speaker 1: of the first reasons we want to touch on, man,

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Speaker 1: is just marketing and advertising. We we think that plays

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Speaker 1: a huge role. And so for instance, with the engagement

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Speaker 1: ring example you just mentioned, uh it was, it was

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Speaker 1: actually advertising from the beers back in the thirties that

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Speaker 1: said that you should spend a month's salary, but then

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Speaker 1: over the decades that expanded to three months salary. That's

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Speaker 1: supposed to go towards the engagement ring. And you would

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Speaker 1: think that company would be would be cool. They got

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Speaker 1: beer in their name, you know that's true. But no,

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Speaker 1: they're trying to pressure us into you know, spending more

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Speaker 1: money than we should. You know, surprised, it's not. It's

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Speaker 1: like gonna be up to six months pretty soon. Right.

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Speaker 1: But similarly, right, it's important to pay attention to the

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Speaker 1: messages that are communicated to us by colleges themselves. So

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like, maybe you're you're sitting there, you're watching

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Speaker 1: some college football or some college basketball and TV. Something

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Speaker 1: as simple as a commercial for the school that's showing

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Speaker 1: the college kids, you know, working in a lab. You know,

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Speaker 1: they've got their lab coats on, with their goggles, pipets,

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing, doing hard work. Yeah, Or maybe

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Speaker 1: they're you know, studying diligently on campus. All of these

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Speaker 1: different types of messages can have a pretty significant impact

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Speaker 1: on us as parents, whether we realize it or not.

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Speaker 1: It affects the way we think about things, and especially

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Speaker 1: to if your kids are sitting there. It affects the

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Speaker 1: way that they think about things because you know, they're

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Speaker 1: being told that like, oh, this is what this is

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Speaker 1: what I'm supposed to do, Like I have to go

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Speaker 1: to this this nice college, make sure I get my education,

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Speaker 1: this is an experience worth paying for exactly. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what they're trying to communicate. And besides, like the marketing

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Speaker 1: and the advertising, there's peer pressure too. I think that's

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Speaker 1: involved in kind of our perception of how much college

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Speaker 1: should cost and how much would we should be saving

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Speaker 1: and putting away towards our kids college future. And it's

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Speaker 1: important to remember that our friends and other parents can

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Speaker 1: have a large impact on us and our attitude towards

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Speaker 1: saving for college. Also, we might think maybe that we're

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Speaker 1: immune to advertising. We might think that we're immune to

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Speaker 1: peer pressure because you know that was high school of

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Speaker 1: middle school, right, Like, we don't deal with your pressure anymore.

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Speaker 1: We're friends, and so our actions do impact the way

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Speaker 1: that we think about things, and we're not alone. That

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Speaker 1: goes for everybody. Yeah, yes, So basically, we we should

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Speaker 1: continue to check in on our own attitudes and our

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Speaker 1: opinions towards money and the decisions that we make with it,

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Speaker 1: like where we decide to invest and how we decide

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Speaker 1: to invest, to make sure that we're not blindly adopting

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Speaker 1: the values of other people that run in our social circles,

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Speaker 1: and including Matt. You know, some of those people might

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Speaker 1: be in a completely different financial situation than where and

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Speaker 1: they might be talking about how much they're setting aside

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Speaker 1: for their kids future, but we don't know if they're

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Speaker 1: neglecting their own retirement, and we don't know if they

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Speaker 1: make three times as much as we do. Like, some

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Speaker 1: of some of those things are left unsaid in the discussion, um,

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Speaker 1: and we can feel pressured into doing exactly what they're

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Speaker 1: doing because it's construed as loving your kids versus not

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Speaker 1: loving your kids. And I just think that's like a

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Speaker 1: not not an actual Uh, that's a false dichotomy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. Man. It takes intentional living for us to

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Speaker 1: not go down the path of least resistance. Right. If

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Speaker 1: we're not thinking about things that we're not proactively steering,

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Speaker 1: you know what direction our lives are gonna go, and

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Speaker 1: we're likely going to do similar things as those around us. Right.

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Speaker 1: Another reason that I think sometimes we can feel pressured

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Speaker 1: into saving for our kids colleges. I mean, just generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: we do want the best for our kids. Right. The

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Speaker 1: research shows that higher education leads to making more money

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Speaker 1: over time. But just because that's what the research shows,

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Speaker 1: this doesn't mean that you, as a parent, that you

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Speaker 1: should automatically be footing the bill. And you know, again,

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Speaker 1: like we are fans of college, and so by all means,

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Speaker 1: let's encourage our kids to go to college if they

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Speaker 1: want to, but there and even if they don't want to,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it's probably something that we should encourage,

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Speaker 1: but there are lots of different ways to cover those costs.

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Speaker 1: And also, man, you know, a part of one of

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Speaker 1: the best opportunities for kids is the desire to protect

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Speaker 1: them from the devastating effects of student loans. Uh. You

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Speaker 1: might feel that it's better for you to take that

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Speaker 1: financial hit. You're thinking, they don't even have a job. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and so you think, Okay, I'm certainly going to be

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Speaker 1: in a better position than they will be. But that

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Speaker 1: may not be the case. That may not be true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, if one of my kids

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Speaker 1: needed it, I'd give him my kidney, right, like I

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Speaker 1: do something like that you can live with just one exactly,

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Speaker 1: and so I think like that this is like the

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Speaker 1: same mentality applies, like, well, I don't want him to

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Speaker 1: go through life with just one kidney, don't want to

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Speaker 1: go through life with like just massive amounts of student loans.

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Speaker 1: And I understand that desire, Like that makes sense, Like

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Speaker 1: I don't want my kids to go through you know,

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Speaker 1: life with a massive debt load either, But there are

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Speaker 1: other ways to come about that. We're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: that in just a second. So actually, this maye think

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Speaker 1: of another potential reason that I think we feel pressured

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Speaker 1: to maybe pay for our kids college. And that's also

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Speaker 1: because if we were in the situations where our parents

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Speaker 1: did that for us, right, So you know, in your

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Speaker 1: kidney example, maybe think about that. But like if that

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Speaker 1: was done for you, it kind of makes you and

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Speaker 1: it might encourage you to kind of pay it forward

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Speaker 1: because you think, oh, well, this is how we go

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Speaker 1: about doing things. But again, do you know what your

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Speaker 1: parents financial situation was when they completely flitted the bill

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Speaker 1: for your Ivy League education. You might be in a

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Speaker 1: very different situation than they were in at the time,

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Speaker 1: that's right, Yeah, And I think especially as tuition prices

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Speaker 1: have risen over the last few decades, and I think

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Speaker 1: for some parents it almost feels like unethical to bring

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Speaker 1: a child into this world and then saddle them with

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Speaker 1: tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars in student

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Speaker 1: loan debt that they'll likely accrue, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: in the process of getting a degree. And while I

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Speaker 1: can understand that mindset, it it really just isn't in

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Speaker 1: either or scenario. You can love your child well and

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Speaker 1: you can help them avoid an insane deat burden without

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Speaker 1: hurting your own personal finances in a big way in

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Speaker 1: the process. That's right, dude. Yeah, And all these things

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Speaker 1: that we encounter, right, whether it's like our own beliefs,

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Speaker 1: just the media that we consume, the messaging that is

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Speaker 1: communicated to us, or even the conversations that we have

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Speaker 1: with with other parents. Maybe you're sitting there at the

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Speaker 1: you know, the ball field or something like that, and

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Speaker 1: they're talking about how you know, they've stalked away like

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Speaker 1: grand already and their kids like three, and you're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: what that sounds like too much. I'm way behind. But

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Speaker 1: you know, peer pressure, right, Like, all these things have

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Speaker 1: an effect on us. All these things unite to create

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Speaker 1: the cultural pressure to pay for your kids college. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know this is assuming that you're in the

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Speaker 1: financial position that you're even able to pay. But like

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Speaker 1: we we often stay here on the show just because

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Speaker 1: you can do something, that doesn't mean that you should.

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Speaker 1: So after the break, we're gonna make an argument for

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Speaker 1: why you shouldn't be saving fe your kids college. We'll

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Speaker 1: get to that right after this all we're back, Matt,

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Speaker 1: let's keep hating on college. M not actually hating on college,

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Speaker 1: just hating on saving up way too much money and

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Speaker 1: hurting your own personal finances in the process to pay

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Speaker 1: for your kids college, especially when that's just the default

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Speaker 1: way of thinking, when you haven't given it the thought

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Speaker 1: that you need to. We always want to challenge the

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Speaker 1: status quo. That's right, and I think, like, yeah, the

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Speaker 1: most important reason that we would say that you should

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Speaker 1: avoid saving for college, why it's overrated, is that scholarships

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Speaker 1: in financial aid don't exist when it comes to your

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Speaker 1: retirement for your kids. There are a lot of different

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Speaker 1: options till lower the cost of college. There are a

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Speaker 1: million ways to skin that cat. They go to a

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Speaker 1: cheaper school, they can hunt for more scholarships, they can

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Speaker 1: work part time or even full time. Oh gasp, don't

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Speaker 1: say it ain't so, you know, while while they're in school, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they can become a resident assistant, right to help pay

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Speaker 1: and let send some of the costs for for lodging.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's just so many ways to go about

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Speaker 1: lowering the cost of college. They can even join the military,

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Speaker 1: like if that's something they're interested in, Uh, in order

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Speaker 1: to pursue that higher education at minimal cost. There are

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Speaker 1: also just a lot of smart ways to score more money,

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Speaker 1: more financial aid from universities in the application process. We

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Speaker 1: talked about that in more detail with Ron Lieber from

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Speaker 1: The New York Times on episode three seven, and then

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Speaker 1: Matt's on top of that, even after your child graduates,

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Speaker 1: some employers will help pay down those student loans, and

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Speaker 1: public service loan forgiveness is an option for those willing

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Speaker 1: to work in public service sector for a decade. So

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Speaker 1: I feel like with all those things, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to saving for the decades that you're not gonna be

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Speaker 1: working for your own retirement, you can't count on Social

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Speaker 1: Security alone to get you through that. Right, there are

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Speaker 1: much fewer options than all the options that are available

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Speaker 1: to kids. Right, It's basically up to you to save

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Speaker 1: an invest in your four own k in your I

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Speaker 1: ra A. There aren't really other options, Like there is

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Speaker 1: no scholarship or financial aid for quitning work someday. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: with all of those resources, all those different ways that

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Speaker 1: you can lower or completely even eliminate the cost of college,

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Speaker 1: to me, that's the number one reason to make saving

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Speaker 1: for college almost like a last priority in your financial life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are so many different avenues that your kids can

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Speaker 1: explore when it comes to, you know, finding creative ways

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Speaker 1: to pay for college. And especially if your finances aren't

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Speaker 1: up to enough, then we would recommend that you definitely

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Speaker 1: don't save for college. If say, you've got it quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of debts. Uh, you have no business saving

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Speaker 1: for your kids higher education. Uh, you gotta take care

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Speaker 1: of your own credit card debt. You need to take

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Speaker 1: care of your own car loan and even your own

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Speaker 1: student loans first, right, Like, you don't need to start

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Speaker 1: saving for your kids college when you haven't even paid

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Speaker 1: off your own college exactly. Also, if your retirement savings

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Speaker 1: have barely begun, or maybe they're just paltry, well, don't

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Speaker 1: save for your kids educational future. You need to make

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Speaker 1: sure that you're saving for your own future. It's wise

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Speaker 1: to operate from a position of financial strength when you're

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Speaker 1: looking to help others with their money. Joel, This is

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Speaker 1: this example is often used, but they always talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, making sure that you've got your own oxygen

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Speaker 1: mask on your face in case of flight difficulties or

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Speaker 1: something like that before you help those around you. And

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Speaker 1: the same thing is true when it comes to your

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Speaker 1: own finances. Yeah, and you have the idea that you

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Speaker 1: can help your kid through school, you know, without taking

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Speaker 1: on much debt by saving for their college, But then

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Speaker 1: they're gonna have to help you out with your retirement.

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Speaker 1: That's a worst position to put your kid in. I

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Speaker 1: think better to have them have to figure out the

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Speaker 1: college thing than them have to figure out your retirement thing.

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Speaker 1: But but it's also important I think to point out

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Speaker 1: that the less you're able to save for your kids,

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Speaker 1: the more trade offs you're gonna have to make. But

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Speaker 1: we actually think that can be better for your kids

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Speaker 1: to have to make sacrifices and think long and hard

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Speaker 1: about those trade offs. I know, we want to give

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Speaker 1: our kids the moon, right. We want our kids to

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Speaker 1: have everything that they need. And lots of things that

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Speaker 1: they want to but that usually isn't the best move

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Speaker 1: for them. All you gotta do, matt Is, watch one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite movies of all time, Willy Wonka and

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Speaker 1: the Chocolate Factory, and you can see what happens to

428
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 1: spoil kids. You know you like the original one too, right,

429
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,720
Speaker 1: you're not a huge fan of the new Johnny deppin,

430
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 1: I just pretend that one doesn't exist. Well, it's true though, dude,

431
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,879
Speaker 1: Like if you always hand everything to your kids, kids

432
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,040
Speaker 1: on a platter, Uh, they don't value the things that

433
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 1: they're given, right Like, And it makes sense to that

434
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 1: this applies to college because for twelve years, kids essentially

435
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: go to school for free, right. I mean, we pay taxes,

436
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,280
Speaker 1: but we don't directly pay and so therefore I don't

437
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: think we value it, probably nearly as much as if

438
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,959
Speaker 1: we had to pay for it out of pocket. Right.

439
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 1: In some instances, I bet we actually as parents signal that, oh,

440
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,719
Speaker 1: school is not that important. You know, It's like, oh,

441
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: we can kick off, you know for a few days,

442
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 1: and you know, take a trip, take a family trip.

443
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,440
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the family trip isn't important. All

444
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 1: I'm saying is that it can be difficult for kids

445
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:47,680
Speaker 1: to fully appreciate and value higher education. Yeah, so I think, yeah, life,

446
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: life is this continual series of trade offs, right, And

447
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,600
Speaker 1: we don't want to hand everything to our kids just

448
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,919
Speaker 1: because they want it. Just because they want to go

449
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 1: to the most expensive school out there doesn't mean that

450
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: that should be our goal to and that that's what's

451
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,160
Speaker 1: best for the family. So yeah, why why not instead

452
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 1: be there with them as they encounter some of these

453
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,720
Speaker 1: really important trade offs, some of these really important decisions

454
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 1: early on in their adult life. Your kids can graduate

455
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 1: college without debt, just by being intentional and with some

456
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 1: help from you. I feel like Matt. Sometimes parents believe

457
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 1: that student loans are the only option that then if

458
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 1: they don't say for their kids college, the only other

459
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 1: outcome is just a huge amount of student debt for

460
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,159
Speaker 1: their kids. But there are so many other potential outcomes

461
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,760
Speaker 1: in the middle that it doesn't have to be all

462
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 1: one or all the other. Yeah, man. And another reason

463
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 1: that that we think saving for college is overrated. Traditionally,

464
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,880
Speaker 1: you save for college in a five twenty nine plan,

465
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,800
Speaker 1: and these plans are specifically tailored for higher education costs.

466
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 1: But the problem is that college doesn't make sense for

467
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 1: all kids out there, And if you don't use the

468
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:54,440
Speaker 1: funds in your five plan for college, then you're stuck

469
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 1: paying a hefty penalty in order to rescue that money

470
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 1: that's stashed there. So if your if your child chooses

471
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: a different plan of action then going to college, it's

472
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 1: going to be financially frustrating if you've prioritized college savings

473
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: too highly. But it's important to point out that you know,

474
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 1: if your kids opt to forego college, it might be

475
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 1: in their their own best interests. There are tons of

476
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 1: alternatives to four year college degrees out there. Yeah, foregoing

477
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 1: college might be in their best interest as a human

478
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 1: being and in their best interest financially, right, because there

479
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,200
Speaker 1: are a lot of lucrative opportunities for people who don't

480
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 1: go to college if it's done in the right way,

481
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 1: I think, and I think blue collar work is one

482
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: of those ways. Matt like, the cool thing about the

483
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,919
Speaker 1: skilled trades is that a lot of folks working with

484
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: their hands have little to no school debt and they

485
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,919
Speaker 1: start generating income sooner. And since there's just like this

486
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: massive dearth of blue collar workers out there, pay rates

487
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: have gone up in a big way too, and the

488
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 1: blue collar route makes more and more sense for lots

489
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 1: of kids that are inclined in that direction. And so, yeah,

490
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: if people want to learn more about that, we we

491
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 1: talked with Ken Rusk about blue collar work and how

492
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 1: you can make more money doing it in episode two

493
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: seventies seven. But I think sometimes, uh, you know, in

494
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 1: this country, we've been so brainwashed to believe that college

495
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,439
Speaker 1: is the only route for so many kids, that a

496
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: lot of kids go there they accrued, they accrued debt

497
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,479
Speaker 1: that they don't need to, They waste years that they

498
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 1: don't need to getting an education they're not interested in,

499
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: when they would have been far better served going you know,

500
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: the blue collar direction from the get go. Yeah, not

501
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 1: only are there great blue collar jobs out there, but

502
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: there are plenty of non manual labor options for for folks,

503
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,399
Speaker 1: like just different technology jobs right that that don't require

504
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: a four year degree. Like I'm thinking, maybe there's a

505
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,479
Speaker 1: kid who's like just really into video games. Well, instead

506
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 1: of starting to to study for the s A T

507
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: during the summers in high school, maybe try taking a

508
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: a C plus plus course or another coding course. But

509
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,239
Speaker 1: consider some of these alternatives to just solely focusing on

510
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 1: college because I think not only can you find uh

511
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: lucrative page well like you mentioned too, but like you

512
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 1: can just find a lot of fulfillment in these professions.

513
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: And it only makes even more sense if you already

514
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: have an interest in those specific topics. Yeah, entrepreneurship is

515
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: another route. You can be a blue collar entrepreneur. You

516
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: can mix mix both, right, You can kind of start

517
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: your own business on the side, or you can start

518
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: another business. Do you believe meets a problem that needs solving.

519
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: So like, with all the information I think to Matt

520
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: that's available to our kids these days, they don't necessarily

521
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: have to go to a liberal arts college in order

522
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: to begin to experience all that's out there. It's not

523
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,879
Speaker 1: that the internet replaces the need for higher education, but

524
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: I feel like it does allow the opportunity for kids

525
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: to discover some of the things that they might be

526
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 1: passionate about a little bit cheaper in an earlier age too,

527
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: without having to pay a ton for for that college degree.

528
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: I feel like the first couple of years of college

529
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 1: for at least our generation, right, that's when we kind

530
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: of started to figure out what courses were being offered

531
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: what other people were pursuing, and we kind of started

532
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: to get that idea for ourselves. But kids these days,

533
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 1: there's so much at their fingertips that they can kind

534
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 1: of like scratch the itch on some of their curiosities

535
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: even earlier in life than ever before, and that can actually,

536
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: I think, lead them down the direction of entrepreneurship even

537
00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: sooner before they even have to set foot on a

538
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: college campus. That's right, man. And so another reason too

539
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: that we we think that saving for college is overrated.

540
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: Who knows how far a college degree will get a

541
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,479
Speaker 1: student after they graduate, right, Like, we don't know the

542
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 1: future per se. And to be honest, like that could

543
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: be an excuse to avoid doing lots of different things

544
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: because you can just say, well, like, who knows what

545
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: the stock market's gonna do. I don't know, I don't

546
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 1: I shouldn't invest. Who knows what the future holds. I'm

547
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: just gonna see here, I'm a bomb exactly. But it's

548
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: true that college might not be as an attractive of

549
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: a choice in ten the fifteen years. Right now, the

550
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: math still works for lots of kids to get a

551
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 1: college degree, but as the cost of college continues to rise, Uh,

552
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: we we feel that it's not as much of a

553
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: slam dunk because it used to be. It used to

554
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: be to work, getting a degree that meant pretty much

555
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 1: by default, you're gonna get a you know, pretty nice,

556
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,439
Speaker 1: high paying job. But these days, getting a degree doesn't

557
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: automatically mean that you're gonna get a higher income like

558
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: it used to. Yeah, college degree used to equal ticket

559
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: to the middle class, right at least, and now it

560
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: doesn't in the same way that it used to. Although

561
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: you know, the stats still reveal, like you said, Matt,

562
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: that you do make more money when you have a

563
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: college degree, there are still a lot of other pockets

564
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: that make sense for kids to explore because college isn't

565
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,239
Speaker 1: quite as worthwhile as it used to be. Another thing too,

566
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: to remember when it comes to saving for college, is

567
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: that we can get too caught up in saving for

568
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 1: the future that we neglect to invest in our kids

569
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: in important ways. Now, like saving for college I think

570
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: can become this like myopic goal, and it's easy to

571
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: forget the real goal, which is to raise kids that

572
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,920
Speaker 1: are going to thrive in the real world. Right, So

573
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: maybe instead of like fully funding that five account or

574
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 1: even putting any money towards it. Consider spending more money

575
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: during the years that your kids live under your roof

576
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 1: to help grow their skills and their awareness. It's not

577
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,040
Speaker 1: that saving for your kids college is the worst thing

578
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: in the world. I think it's just that people oftentimes

579
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: focus so hard on that they neglect some of the

580
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: experiences and places that they could be spending money now

581
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: on their kids that are going to actually have a

582
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: bigger impact on their ability to be productive citizens of

583
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: the world. That's right, Yeah, I mean you've got to

584
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: be balanced, right, And in a similar way that we

585
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: value craft beer, right, I mean, that's that's part of

586
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 1: why we have a craft beer on every episode, because

587
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: we want to demonstrate that we're trying to seek after

588
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: balance when it comes to saving for retirement, because if

589
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: you're only focused on retirement, right, like that magical fifty

590
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: nine and a half, you might get to that point

591
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: in your life and realize that like, oh, I guess

592
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: I should find some hobbies, Like, like, I don't really

593
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: have a life, I don't have many relationships in my life,

594
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: And so that's what we want to try to avoid

595
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: when it comes to our kids as well. And so

596
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking of like family trips like learning an instrument,

597
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: you know, playing sports like these are all examples of

598
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: spending money that can help your kids become more well rounded.

599
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: And if you neglect those things in favor of building

600
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: a nine nest egg like that might be more of

601
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: a short sighted move. So chances are, if you're listening

602
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: to this episode, like you're into personal finance, right and

603
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: as you know, self professing personal finance nerds ourselves like

604
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,120
Speaker 1: I can admit that it can be tempting to focus

605
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: on the money, the dollar amount in that nest egg,

606
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: rather than the intangible benefits that come with intentional and

607
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: quality time that we can spend with our kids. Money

608
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: isn't the fix for every single problem out there, and

609
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 1: so look to other ways to expand your kids horizons

610
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: beyond just assuming that a college degree is going to

611
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: be key for them to grow up into a happy,

612
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: functioning adults. So, all that being said, saving for college,

613
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 1: though it does make sense for some folks, it might

614
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: make sense for a lot of folks, and so we're

615
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 1: gonna talk about when that is, when it actually does

616
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: make sense free to save for your kids college, and

617
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: then how to go about it. Right after this, all right,

618
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: we're back and Matt. Of course, we do believe that

619
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: saving for college is overrated. We wouldn't put it on

620
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: the tireless episode if we didn't believe that. But we've

621
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: also relegated saving for your kids college to money get

622
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: number seven. Like literally, we did an episode at the

623
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,400
Speaker 1: beginning of this year, episode three or two. We talked

624
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: about the seven money gears and you know when to

625
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: do what with your money and money gear number seven

626
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: is the last year and only if you're there, should

627
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: you even be considering, uh, say, being any money for

628
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,479
Speaker 1: your kids college. We would say, that's how that's how

629
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: overrated it is. It should be the last thing that

630
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: you consider. Exactly. Yeah, it's it's in that like I

631
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,359
Speaker 1: want to travel more and I want to say for

632
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 1: my kids college, Like those two things go together. I

633
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: think you know that those two things are in the

634
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: same money gear. But if you are crushing it, if

635
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: your finances are checking along, you've done a great job

636
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: investing for your own retirement, you don't have any of

637
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: that nasty credit card or student loan debt hanging around.

638
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: Then let's talk about how to go about saving for

639
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: your kids college in the most effective ways. Because Yeah,

640
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 1: there are some people, Matt who are doing a great

641
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: job with their personal finances. They want to start investing

642
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: for their kids college future. I understand that five plans,

643
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: we would say, are the best vehicle for doing so.

644
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 1: They aren't the only way. We're gonna talk about other

645
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: methods in a second too, but we should at least

646
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 1: start with five to nine plans first because they were

647
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: created for this very purpose. So yeah, kind of kick

648
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: us off. We'll talk about the pros and cons of

649
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: opening a five plan for your kids. Yeah, so plans,

650
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 1: I mean, the biggest reason that folks are opening these

651
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: is because of the tax break that you receive. Right,

652
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: All five twenty nine plans offer tax breaks on the

653
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: earnings that happened to be invested inside of that plan. So,

654
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: for example, if you invest ten thousand dollars and then

655
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: it grows to forty dollars over the years, you will

656
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: never pay tax on your earnings if you use those

657
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: funds for qualified expenses. And uh. In some states that

658
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: have state income taxes actually offered the additional incentive of

659
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: a tax break on the contributions that you make, and

660
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: so that's the case in the state of Georgia. As

661
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: well as more than thirty other states. So there are

662
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: a lot of states that have five twenty nine plans.

663
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: And so while you don't receive a federal deduction on

664
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,920
Speaker 1: the amount of money that you invest into five uh yeah,

665
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: for a lot of states, you do get a state

666
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 1: benefit if you reside within the states. Yeah, And so

667
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,719
Speaker 1: I think that that's the main reason. I think if

668
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: you're if you're doing well financially, to open a five

669
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: twenty nine account. It's like my kids in all likelihood

670
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: going to go to college. Most of the people in

671
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: our family did, and so we're gonna start saving now,

672
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: and we're gonna get the tax break. And I think

673
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: that's a reasonable reason to open a five twenty nine

674
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: plan and start that process. You can even use a

675
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: site like backer dot com to solicit contributions from your

676
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: friends and family, And so I think, Matt, this is

677
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: like perfect for a lot of people who maybe you're

678
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: tired of getting a bunch of gifts they create clutter

679
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: around like birthdays and holidays. Um, you're talking to the

680
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: right guy, the guy who hates clutter in pieces of

681
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: junk and plastic in his home. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

682
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 1: So so yeah, we're we're right now in the process

683
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: of downsizing our kids toy collection because it's just gotten

684
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: out of hand and and like that hang quickly. And

685
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 1: I know, like my parents are gonna want to get

686
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: them some sort of toy for the birthday this summer,

687
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna be like one toy limit. And and

688
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: maybe if you want to give them more, maybe contribute

689
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: to their five account. Right, that's a perfect way like

690
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: it to destructure this is to say, ask your loved

691
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: ones maybe too to contribute to the five twenty nine

692
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: plan that you've started in lieu of additional presence. But

693
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna need to let them give them one

694
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: or they're not gonna be not gonna be happy. But yeah,

695
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: five nine plans I think make a whole lot more

696
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: sense when you have other people, other loved ones who

697
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,479
Speaker 1: are able to contribute. We'll put a link to that

698
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: in the show notes. But that's an easy way to

699
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: allow them to to contribute on your kid's behalf. Yeah,

700
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: So that's the biggest advantage of a five twenty nine

701
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: plan is that those earnings grow tax free, but you

702
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: do pay tax, you know, on the on the front end.

703
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: So essentially it's kind of like a roth ira a

704
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: where uh you get that tax break on the back end,

705
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: you don't ever have to worry about, you know, paying

706
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: tax on that money as long as you use it

707
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: for the right thing. That's the strongest argument four five

708
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: nine plan. But the biggest reason to avoid these plans

709
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: is something that we've already touched on. But if you

710
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: have kids who don't end up going to college and

711
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: you want to use those funds for other reasons, then

712
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to pay for it. And so non

713
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: qualified distributions get hit with income tax plus an extra

714
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: ten percent penalty on those earnings. And so that means

715
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: that median households right now in the U S could

716
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: be paying between twenty two uh tot Like that is

717
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: a big bite out of that five twenty nine nest egg.

718
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: If your kids happen to not go to college. There

719
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: is some good news though, right if if your child

720
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: gets a full scholarship to college, then you you actually

721
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 1: won't have to pay the penalty at least that you

722
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: can avoid that ten percent, but you will still have

723
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: to pay income tax on that money, and that's also

724
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: up to that scholarship dollar amount. But you know, in general,

725
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: we we we do feel that the tax benefits of

726
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: five twenty nine plans are often oversold. For instance, let's

727
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: say you instead invested that money in a brokerage account,

728
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: you would be subject to a fifteen percent capital you know,

729
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 1: gains rate for most folks. Uh. And while you know

730
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: that's more than zero, it's also not the end of

731
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: the world. I guess what I'm saying is that if

732
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: you're not sure what it is that your kids are

733
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: gonna do, like maybe you don't have a history of

734
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: your family members going to college, maybe you have a

735
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: strong history of skilled labors or or artists, you know,

736
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: different folks who have maybe started their own businesses, then

737
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: maybe investing that money in a brokerage account might be

738
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: a smarter move for you. You You know, we we do

739
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: feel that avoiding taxes is smart. Right. Anytime you can

740
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: do that and you know that you're gonna come out ahead,

741
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: we would recommend that. But this is an instance where

742
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: you know you don't want to have the tail wag

743
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: the dog. In this case, you don't want to walk

744
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: a way those funds within the five twenty nine plan

745
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: uh and then be forced to pay a lot of

746
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: money in taxes or penalties because your kids don't actually

747
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: end up going to college. Yeah, that's like the worst

748
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: possible scenario that you don't want to find yourself in

749
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: or not, I mean not the worst like that could

750
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: be like trapped in a cave alone or something like

751
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: that. That That would be much much worse. That specifically would

752
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: be probably the worst thing for you. Probably actually come

753
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,959
Speaker 1: up with a with a laundry list of things over

754
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: your words. But yeah, that is like when it comes

755
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: to a tax and money perspective, that's that's a bad thing, right.

756
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: You don't want to contribute a bunch of money to

757
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 1: the five nine account that you're not going to be

758
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: able to use, and that is I think Matt, you're

759
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: right that it's one of the biggest downsides. Let's talk

760
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: about two other ways that you can save for your

761
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: kids college. It doesn't have to be a five twenty

762
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: nine plan. There are other methods that are more flexible.

763
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about now. Are not accounts specifically created

764
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: to help you, say for your kids college, and that's

765
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 1: the five account, But there are other methods that you

766
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: can use that are going to crush you if those

767
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: funds don't end up going to to help pay for

768
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: your kids college. The roth Ira is such a great vehicle.

769
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: We're big fans of it saving for your own retirement,

770
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: and it offers more flexibility than the five plan two.

771
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 1: And that's a check mark in favor of going in

772
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 1: that direction over the plan direction, and a checkmark over

773
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: rowerdge accounts. Yeah, I mean I just mentioned that, just

774
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: like taxable brokerage accounts. But like if you have access

775
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: to a rath I mean, and you're not already maxing

776
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: it out, like yeah, yeah, then that should come first,

777
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: definitely before a brokerage account. Yeah, and before and if

778
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 1: you're under the age of fifty nine and a half

779
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: when you're gonna need some of that money to help

780
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: pay for your kids schooling, you can pull out contributions

781
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: without paying any tax or penalty. You can also pull

782
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: any earnings too. You will have to pay income tax

783
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 1: on that money, but if it's used for college, you

784
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: get to avoid the temper cent roth Ira early withdraw penalty.

785
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,759
Speaker 1: It's still important to tread carefully when you're using the

786
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: roth ira uh money in your roth Ira for this purpose,

787
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: because you're likely going to need a big chunk of

788
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 1: that money to fund your own retirement. So it's not

789
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like you're you're hoping

790
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: to use that for your kids college. You're still hoping

791
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: that they're able to go to school cheaply enough, right,

792
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: and that you can find enough financial aid to lower

793
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: the burden and that you can hold onto your ira

794
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: A money for your own retirement. Um, but it is,

795
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: I would say for almost everyone, it's a better account

796
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 1: to be filling up before you even open the five Yeah.

797
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: Uh and then do Let's let's mention one avenue that

798
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: you and I are partial to. Real estate investing can

799
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: can be another route to help pay for college. You know,

800
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: you don't have to go the conventional route necessarily like

801
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: roth iras E accounts. They're great. But you know what,

802
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 1: if you love real estate investing like we do, dude,

803
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: I love the idea of building up a steady stream

804
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: of income over time via rental properties. That money can

805
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: help you increase your current income and it can be

806
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 1: used as a way to fund bigger lump some costs

807
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 1: like college down the road. You can either use the

808
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: recurring cash flow to help pay for your kids college expenses,

809
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: or you can even sell a property to pay a

810
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: tuition bill in full. Real estate investing isn't necessarily going

811
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: to be for everyone out there, but for those of

812
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: you who do have an interest in real estate, this

813
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: could be another way of thinking about paying for college

814
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: down the road. Look at a specific property, maybe assigned

815
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: that property to do a kid boom, you got college

816
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: taken care of us, right, Yeah. Especially, let's say your

817
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: kids three years old, they're going to college in fifteen years,

818
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: and if you if you really want to pay for

819
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: it in one lump sum, what you can say is like,

820
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: all right, I'm gonna get a fifteen year mortgage and

821
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna, you know, make a little bit of money

822
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 1: every month on the spread. And then in fifteen years,

823
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sell this house and I'm going to use

824
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: that to fund their college. Like that's the one way

825
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: of thinking about it, right, There's a million ways to

826
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,880
Speaker 1: skin this cat, Like assuming that they go to the

827
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: most expensive college of all times, right, because the way

828
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: real estate properties are going these days, that should be

829
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: more than enough to pay for college. But then again,

830
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 1: who knows what college is going to cost, uh eighteen

831
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: years and so so, man, I think you know infammation,

832
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: save me for college can be a nice thing to

833
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: do for your kids, But you don't have to save

834
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 1: for your child's college education to be a good parents.

835
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: And I think that's what a lot of people feel

836
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: innately right now, is like if I don't, I'm not

837
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: a great parent, or I'm not doing what other people

838
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: are doing for for their kids, and so I'm not

839
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: sacrificing enough, not feeling the pain. I'm like a B

840
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: minus or a C plus on the parenting scale. And

841
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: that's just not true. And of course it's hard to

842
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: reach all of the financial goals that we want to achieve.

843
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: It'd be nice, right if we could max out our

844
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 1: four O one k I RA playing nhs A like

845
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: that would be that would be like a perfect ideal world, right,

846
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: if you can do all the above, But it's important

847
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 1: to not let your financial priorities get out of order.

848
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: If you can take that all the above approach, more

849
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: power do you like if you're if you've got that

850
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: kind of income and that kind of frugality level, like congratulations,

851
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: But you are the anomaly in this conversation. And there

852
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 1: are a lot of reasons that saving for college isn't

853
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: all it's cracked up to be, even though it's a

854
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: worthwhile goal to have in the future, as your personal

855
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 1: financial situation continues to get stronger as you build wealth,

856
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: maybe down the road you can start to put away

857
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: little dribs and drabs, you know, open up a five

858
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: account maybe. But it's a really low priority in in

859
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: the scheme of things, that's right, man. Yes, hopefully we

860
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: have adequately convinced you that saving for college is overrated.

861
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 1: That's something that, uh, you can do, but it's not

862
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: something that you have to do, all right, Joel, Let's

863
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: get back to the beer that you and I enjoyed

864
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,359
Speaker 1: on this episode. This beer is technically a homebrew from

865
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 1: our friend Jess and and he brews under the Moniker

866
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: easy Chair brewing garage. Uh, and this is what he

867
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: calls his bass stout recipe that went through a second

868
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: fermentation with coconut shavings. Joel, what were your thoughts on

869
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: this beer? So I think he was actually gonna name

870
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: this beer Matt is my favorite how to Money house,

871
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: but he didn't want to make me feel bad, and

872
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: so I appreciate that. Jess, but that would have been

873
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: a good name for this one. But I thought this

874
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: was really good. Dude. One should have just been called

875
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: Matt and then we're actually gonna have another one by him,

876
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 1: and he could have just called that one. Joel, that's

877
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: that's the peach Sheltzer. I feel like you kind of

878
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 1: got this peach summertime vibes going on, Joel. I appreciate that.

879
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a compliment or not. Yeah, uh,

880
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: it's probably both at once, and I'll like it. I'm

881
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: fine with that. But man, I really like this one

882
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 1: because it had an adjunct, which is just anything else

883
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: you put into a stout, like you know, like coconut

884
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: and coffee. Sometimes it's a popular adjunct when it comes

885
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: to stouts, but sometimes breweries overdo it, and I feel

886
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: like the pastry stouts are a prime example of that.

887
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's like I'm actually eating a doughnut and it

888
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: it feels like too much. It's overwhelming, and I'm like, man,

889
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 1: I actually want to taste the beer. I actually want

890
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: to taste the stout, not just the sprinkles it Like,

891
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: I didn't want to actually have to chew my beer

892
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: this time. But but yeah, you're saying that that's not

893
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: the case. This time, but sometimes we do have stouts

894
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: that are like that where it's just seriously too thick

895
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 1: this is on beer. But yeah, I agree, man, it's

896
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: got like the perfect amount of coconut going on. He

897
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,959
Speaker 1: was light on the touch with the coconut, but yeah,

898
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: it's like it's there, it's present, it's adding something lovely.

899
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: But the stout the base itself is just really delicious too.

900
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 1: So man, I think Jess is getting his game together

901
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: seriously on the homebrewnk. A lot of times when it

902
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 1: comes to homebrews, like there's a different scale in my

903
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,240
Speaker 1: mind because like it's always like no for for homebrew,

904
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 1: this is pretty good, but this, like this is like

905
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: for a beer, this is good, Like I would pay

906
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: for this. Uh. This actually reminds me Creature Comforts that

907
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: they released a bunch of kind of special stouts there

908
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: in there at the brewery that they don't ever release

909
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: or bottle or can or anything like that, And this

910
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: reminds me of one that I had actually there in

911
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 1: the brewery. But like it almost has a milky quality

912
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: to it. It's just really smooth, almost almost creamy, like

913
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: you said, the coconuts just right. I feel like it

914
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: tastes kind of like their their cocoa bunny porter. Oh

915
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: maybe maybe that's it, like I was, I think I

916
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: was picturing like I can't remember, like the tree that

917
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: owns itself or something like that. They've got all these

918
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: different stouts there, but it does. It kind of has

919
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: that cocoa bunny action going on. This is a really

920
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: great stout and it deserves a name. Uh we should. Yeah,

921
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: we gotta convince Jess to name his beers. This one

922
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: he just labeled number one since since he gave his

923
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 1: two beers. But uh, yeah, this one's really good. I'm

924
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: glad that he donated this one to the show. And

925
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: again even though he donated it, like I would by

926
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: this beer in the store. Totally Yeah, I feel like

927
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 1: we already named it for him. Matt is my favorite

928
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: and how the Money House, and I'm gonna agree with him,

929
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,320
Speaker 1: You're you're my favorite. How the Money House? Too sweet?

930
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: All right, Well, that's gonna do it for the love

931
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: fest and in this episode. But for folks that want

932
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 1: show notes and some of the resources that we we

933
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: mentioned on this episode, just go to our website at

934
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: how to money dot com. They'll be up there for you.

935
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: That is true. And something else that is true is

936
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: that when you leave us a review, it helps the

937
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: show positive and Angel gets its wins every time the

938
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: bell already, it really does help others to find the show.

939
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: And actually I saw a recent review that was left

940
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: for our show and they said that they found the

941
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: show because it was recommended within their podcasting app where

942
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,479
Speaker 1: they listen to podcasts, and so these positive reviews they

943
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:34,359
Speaker 1: help out in the algorithm and when it comes to

944
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: other people discovering and finding the show. So sometimes you

945
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: might think that's something that they just always say, but no,

946
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,919
Speaker 1: for real, we really do mean it, and it's why

947
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: we we do consistently ask for those reviews. So if

948
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 1: you haven't left us a review wherever it is that

949
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcasts, we would love it if

950
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: you did that, and thanks in advance, no doubt. All Right,

951
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode. Until next time,

952
00:41:53,560 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 1: best Friends Out and best Friends Out