WEBVTT - Big Take: A Warming Planet vs. Trump

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, it suckshat. This week I joined The Big Take

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<v Speaker 1>podcast to talk about the global consequences of President Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump's rollback on climate We wanted to share that episode

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<v Speaker 1>with zero listeners to so take a listen and do

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<v Speaker 1>follow The Big Take for daily news coverage from Bloomberg.

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<v Speaker 2>Reporters, Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News. Since taking office

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<v Speaker 2>in January, President Trump has set in motion a series

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<v Speaker 2>of sweeping rollbacks on US climate policy.

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<v Speaker 3>The President slashing funding to combat climate change.

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<v Speaker 2>President Trump on social media is again calling for FEMA

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<v Speaker 2>to be shut down. The latest firings hitting Noah, the

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<v Speaker 2>nation's top weather and climate agency, hundreds let go, and

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<v Speaker 2>on Tuesday, the few times Trump mentioned climate policy in

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<v Speaker 2>an address to Congress, he didn't hold back.

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<v Speaker 3>I terminated the ridiculous green news scam. I withdrew from

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<v Speaker 3>the unfair Paris Climate Accord, which was costing US trillions

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<v Speaker 3>of dollars that other countries were not paying.

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<v Speaker 2>His remarks highlighted the ways his administration has dismantled efforts

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<v Speaker 2>to combat climate change, and they were the culmination of

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<v Speaker 2>weeks of actions that pushed climate change into the background

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<v Speaker 2>at a time when governments around the world have lagged

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<v Speaker 2>behind their stated environmental goals.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty twenty four was the first year when for the

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<v Speaker 1>entire year, the world averaged over one point five degrees celsius.

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<v Speaker 2>Akshad Rothy is a senior climate reporter for Bloomberg News

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<v Speaker 2>and host of the Zero podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Any amount of warming, any point one degree celsius of

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<v Speaker 1>warming makes the planet worse. And what happens when Trump

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<v Speaker 1>or other countries start to pull away from these targets

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<v Speaker 1>is that we start to get more warming because we

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<v Speaker 1>move away from the focus of trying to get more

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<v Speaker 1>clean energy and rely less on fossil fuels.

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<v Speaker 2>So just how did we get here, How have Trump's

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<v Speaker 2>actions played out since his first day in office, and

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<v Speaker 2>how will these last few weeks of climate policy reversals

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<v Speaker 2>impact the US and the rest of the world.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a job of a government to try and

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<v Speaker 1>provide for welfare of society. That is why governments are elected.

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<v Speaker 1>But if you are not going to be believing in

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<v Speaker 1>the facts of climate change, which are scientifically true and

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<v Speaker 1>have consensus around the world, then you're not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to make informed decisions that will help you

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<v Speaker 1>to protect people from the harm. That's coming their.

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<v Speaker 2>Way today on the show Trump and the Climate, a

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<v Speaker 2>walk through some of his administration's key climate actions, the

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<v Speaker 2>international fallout, and what it all means for the global

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<v Speaker 2>fight to stop the warming of the planet. This is

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<v Speaker 2>the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder, so Aksha.

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<v Speaker 2>Trump has taken several actions to reverse US policy on

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<v Speaker 2>climate since the start of his second term, but the

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<v Speaker 2>one that really set the tone was him pulling out

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<v Speaker 2>of the Paris Climate Agreement on day one. So let's

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<v Speaker 2>start there. He's pulled out of the accord before, during

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<v Speaker 2>his first term in twenty seventeen. But what's different this time.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you're right, this wasn't a surprise because he'd said

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<v Speaker 1>he'd do it, and he's done it in the past.

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<v Speaker 1>But there is certainly something different about this time. So

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<v Speaker 1>on the negative side, Trump has more backers for his

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<v Speaker 1>anti climate bush because there's been a right wing turned

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<v Speaker 1>in politics around the world. There's also the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>companies and countries that had set targets to meet as

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<v Speaker 1>soon as twenty thirty are way off track from meeting

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<v Speaker 1>those climate targets. And we've also just lived through the

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<v Speaker 1>hottest year in twenty twenty four, we've breached for the

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<v Speaker 1>first time one point five degrees celsius, which is one

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<v Speaker 1>of the two most ambitious targets we have under the

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<v Speaker 1>Paris Agreement. So there is the sense of whether we'll

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<v Speaker 1>ever be able to keep under the Paris goals of

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<v Speaker 1>not warming the planet by two degrees solsius, And so

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<v Speaker 1>the urgency to act has grown. But clearly the companies

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<v Speaker 1>and countries aren't doing all that much. That's the bad side.

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<v Speaker 1>There's also a good side that is different this time.

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<v Speaker 1>So when Trump quit the Paras Agreement the first time around,

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<v Speaker 1>global clean energy investments stood at about four hundred billion

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<v Speaker 1>dollars according to Bloomberg NEF. In twenty twenty four, they

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<v Speaker 1>breached two trillion dollars two point one trillion dollars to

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<v Speaker 1>be precise. And there is something fundamentally different about this moment,

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<v Speaker 1>which is today clean energy is much much cheaper than

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<v Speaker 1>the last time Trump pulled out of the Paris Agreement,

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<v Speaker 1>and climate impacts are much much more severe, and so

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<v Speaker 1>people have a recognition that this problem is only going

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<v Speaker 1>to get worse. But fortunately the solutions are also getting cheaper.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing is that there were always these rumors

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<v Speaker 1>that once the US, the world's largest historical emitter of

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<v Speaker 1>greenhouse gases the world's largest economy, pulls out of a

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<v Speaker 1>global treaty, other countries will follow. That didn't happen last time,

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<v Speaker 1>and it doesn't seem like it's going to happen this time.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so you've given us the good news and the

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<v Speaker 2>bad news. I'm wondering a little more about how other

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<v Speaker 2>world leaders and business leaders are reacting to Trump's moves.

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<v Speaker 2>Just how strong are other countries climate commitments and who

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<v Speaker 2>might step up and fill the void left by the

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<v Speaker 2>United States.

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<v Speaker 1>There's certainly been a muted response this time. Let's take corporations.

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<v Speaker 1>Last time around, these big tech companies were jostling to

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<v Speaker 1>be the climate leaders in the world. Elon Musk quit

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<v Speaker 1>a Trump advisory council as a result of Trump pulling

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<v Speaker 1>out of the Paris Agreement. Well, this time around, none

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<v Speaker 1>of the tech bosses are saying anything about Paris. Elon

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<v Speaker 1>Musk is in the Trump government, and from a country standpoint,

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<v Speaker 1>there isn't the same bulwark of climate forward leaders that

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<v Speaker 1>was there the last time. We had Angela Merkel. We

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<v Speaker 1>had justin Trudeau, who had just been elected this time. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>Ursula V on their lane from the European Union did

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<v Speaker 1>say that europe is going to stay the course. But

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<v Speaker 1>even Lula in Brazil, who is going to be hosting

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<v Speaker 1>a COP meeting later this year, let his deputies react

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<v Speaker 1>to a Trump exit. So there's this sense among world

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<v Speaker 1>leaders who are facing economic issues that they are not

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<v Speaker 1>willing to try and push back against an embolden Trump.

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<v Speaker 2>Last time we spoke, the big questions at the COP

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<v Speaker 2>summit in Baku were around money. Who is going to

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<v Speaker 2>pay for the energy transition, how much developed countries will

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<v Speaker 2>spend to support developing countries. How does the US pulling

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<v Speaker 2>out change those calculations.

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<v Speaker 1>That is perhaps the most significant question. So at Baku,

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<v Speaker 1>all countries, including the US, agreed on a goal to

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<v Speaker 1>triple climate finance from one hundred billion dollars to three

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<v Speaker 1>hundred billion dollars by twenty thirty five.

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<v Speaker 2>That's money developed countries promised to put specifically toward helping

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<v Speaker 2>developing nations respond to climate change and invest in clean energy.

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<v Speaker 1>So they have ten years to get to that goal,

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<v Speaker 1>but it means they have to start ramping up right

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<v Speaker 1>away because it is a big goal to meet and

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<v Speaker 1>Now that the US, the world's largest economy, is out

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<v Speaker 1>with all its banks and all its heft, it's unlikely

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<v Speaker 1>that that acceleration from one hundred to three hundred will

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<v Speaker 1>happen at the same pace as it would have if

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<v Speaker 1>the US were part of the agreement. Now we will

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<v Speaker 1>certainly see a rise in climate finance because other countries

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<v Speaker 1>will start to step in. But maybe we are already

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<v Speaker 1>looking at the three hundred billion dollar goal being missed.

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<v Speaker 1>Even if the US is not putting any money directly

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<v Speaker 1>from the government side under a Trump administration towards climate finance,

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<v Speaker 1>it does contribute to these multilateral development banks like World

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<v Speaker 1>Bank or the IMF, which then go on to contribute

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<v Speaker 1>to climate finance. And the US is the largest shareholder

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<v Speaker 1>in most of these MDBs, and it could start to

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<v Speaker 1>try and pull back money that these banks were previously

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<v Speaker 1>giving to climate finance, So that could have a multiplier

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<v Speaker 1>effect if Trump so wishes right.

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<v Speaker 2>And meanwhile, Trump has been cutting domestic spending on the

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<v Speaker 2>climate too, with the help of Elon Musk's Doge Task Force.

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<v Speaker 2>An EPA administrator Lizelden has been cutting millions in EPA

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<v Speaker 2>grants focused on environmental justice what do we know about

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<v Speaker 2>how these cuts could impact climate regulation and climate research.

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<v Speaker 1>There is just so much that is happening, and it

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<v Speaker 1>is unclear just how wide spread this impact is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be till we start to come to the places

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<v Speaker 1>where we expect an APA regulation to come through because

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<v Speaker 1>industries need to move on and start to buildings, or

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<v Speaker 1>a climate science report has to drop because there was

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<v Speaker 1>a deadline to produce that report and then it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>come Those are things we are looking out for which

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<v Speaker 1>are in the future, but there are already impacts that

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<v Speaker 1>we can see. So in trying to keep climate out

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<v Speaker 1>of the conversation, out of research, there was a downstream

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<v Speaker 1>impact where a climate scientist in the US who is

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<v Speaker 1>supposed to be heading a very important working group of

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<v Speaker 1>the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which is the world's

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<v Speaker 1>premier body for all climate science research, could not make

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<v Speaker 1>it to her meeting in hano and China because the

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<v Speaker 1>Trump administration said that NASA cannot fund anymore climate science work.

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<v Speaker 2>What does it mean for that researcher to miss that meeting?

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<v Speaker 2>What didn't happen?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the US is one of the world's largest funder

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<v Speaker 1>of climate science research, about a fifth of all the

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<v Speaker 1>authors of these big IPCC reports are Americans. That is

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<v Speaker 1>twice as much as the next biggest country, which is

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<v Speaker 1>the UK. And so when you stop bringing American scientists

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<v Speaker 1>into the climate conversation, you lose a big chunk of

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<v Speaker 1>climate science understanding of the world. And Okay, that for

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<v Speaker 1>now is fine, but these reports which will come in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty thirty will start to become worse today. And so

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<v Speaker 1>this sort of pull one string and then the fabric

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<v Speaker 1>starts to fall apart is something we expect to see

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<v Speaker 1>more and more.

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<v Speaker 2>Of after the break. More on what climate policy reversals

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<v Speaker 2>could mean for the green technology sector and for the

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<v Speaker 2>world's reliance on fossil fuels. Pulling out of the Paris

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<v Speaker 2>Climate Agreement was only the first and a flurry of

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<v Speaker 2>climate policy changes since Trump took office.

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<v Speaker 3>We ended all of Biden's environmental restrictions that we're making

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<v Speaker 3>our country far less safe and totally unaffordable.

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<v Speaker 2>His administration has blocked the enforcement of environmental justice law

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<v Speaker 2>US stopped a global air quality monitoring program, and started

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<v Speaker 2>to roll back rules around corporate climate disclosures. Last month,

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg reported that the EPA was recommending the government throw

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<v Speaker 2>out its conclusion that greenhouse gases endanger the public. But

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<v Speaker 2>there's another piece of the story that I asked Bloomberg's

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<v Speaker 2>oxshot ROTHI to unpack more where this all leaves investments

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<v Speaker 2>in green technology. When the Paris Agreement was first signed

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty sixteen, there was this rapid rise in investment

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<v Speaker 2>in climate tech companies, and there was more funding for

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<v Speaker 2>projects that focused on the energy transition. With Trump in office,

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<v Speaker 2>how could that picture of global investment change.

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<v Speaker 1>It can have pretty big impacts because a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the funding that went into nascent climate technologies came from

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<v Speaker 1>the US, went to US startups that were at the

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<v Speaker 1>forefront of developing these technologies. But it does create opportunities

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<v Speaker 1>for other countries to be able to absorb some of

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<v Speaker 1>this talent that sits in America that has developed this technology,

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<v Speaker 1>that wants to build these plants that will reduce greener's

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<v Speaker 1>gas emissions, that will make electricity cheaper, that will make

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<v Speaker 1>electricity more easily accessible because it will tap into renewable resources,

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<v Speaker 1>not just the sun and the wind, but also geothermal resources.

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<v Speaker 1>And it creates an opportunity for countries that are climate forward,

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<v Speaker 1>have climate forward leaders to give home to American startups.

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<v Speaker 1>Because it's clear, at least from this administration's steps taken

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<v Speaker 1>so far, that they don't care about climate technologies.

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<v Speaker 2>What are the countries that are set up best to

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<v Speaker 2>take advantage of this opportunity?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the simplest answer there is China. Out of

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<v Speaker 1>the two point one trillion dollars that were invested in

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<v Speaker 1>the energy transition last year, eight hundred billion dollars came

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<v Speaker 1>from China. That is more than the US, European Union,

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<v Speaker 1>and the UK combined. But that's not to say that

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<v Speaker 1>China is the only country that can win these other

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<v Speaker 1>technologies that China doesn't have a lead in, like carbon catcher,

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<v Speaker 1>like green hydrogen, like heat pumps, where local manufacturing in

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<v Speaker 1>other parts of the world can certainly catch up, and

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<v Speaker 1>so you might see competition on green tech outside of

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<v Speaker 1>America that will produce losers and winners.

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<v Speaker 3>We have more liquid gold under our feet than any

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<v Speaker 3>nation on Earth, and by.

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<v Speaker 2>Far akshat, strengthening America's fossil fuel industry is central to

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's economic agenda. He emphasized that in his speech to

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<v Speaker 2>Congress this week.

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<v Speaker 3>It's called drill, Baby, drill.

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<v Speaker 2>But what about the economics of not investing in the

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<v Speaker 2>energy transition and not investing in these kinds of things.

0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Could this actually hurt the US's economic competitiveness in this space.

0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.760
<v Speaker 1>So there is perhaps something to be gained by trying

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.080
<v Speaker 1>to drill baby drill in the short term. If you

0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.920
<v Speaker 1>have higher oil and gas prices, you might be able

0:13:55.960 --> 0:14:00.000
<v Speaker 1>to profit from it or make oil and gas cheaper

0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.360
<v Speaker 1>for American consumers. But that is a short term gain

0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.320
<v Speaker 1>for a long term loss. So one thing that most

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 1>experts agree on is that the future of energy is

0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:16.960
<v Speaker 1>to go towards distributed energy that comes from renewable sources

0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 1>because they are widely available, they're easy to tap, and

0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 1>now they're also very cheap to tap. But certainly ten

0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:26.360
<v Speaker 1>or fifteen years from now, if we look back, we'll

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.560
<v Speaker 1>see this period as one where the US started to

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.080
<v Speaker 1>lose its competitive edge in green technologies.

0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.080
<v Speaker 2>Well, akshat, this is of course all happening on the

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.440
<v Speaker 2>heels of those devastating fires in la Just a few

0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.640
<v Speaker 2>weeks ago, Trump moved to end climate related work and

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:45.080
<v Speaker 2>eliminate the use of climate related terms in the Department

0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:49.720
<v Speaker 2>of Homeland Security, which typically responds to natural disasters. If

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:53.320
<v Speaker 2>the US government is no longer interested in addressing or

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.960
<v Speaker 2>acknowledging climate change. What does that mean for the country

0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 2>if and when more extreme weather EVAs happen, What does

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:02.240
<v Speaker 2>it mean for the world.

0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.800
<v Speaker 1>I think that was a feeling that many experts had,

0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>which is, you know, when we were talking about climate

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 1>change in the nineteen nineties, it was a problem that

0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:14.520
<v Speaker 1>was a decade or two decades away. Well, it's here.

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.720
<v Speaker 1>The la fires are a really good example or study

0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.600
<v Speaker 1>that just came out said they were made thirty five

0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:25.240
<v Speaker 1>percent worse by human caused climate change. But the reality

0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 1>has also sunk in among the people who were hoping

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.760
<v Speaker 1>that the alarm of extreme weather will cause people to

0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 1>ask for more climate action. That's not happening at the

0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.480
<v Speaker 1>scale we want. I mean the elections around the world,

0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.680
<v Speaker 1>not just Donald Trump's, are a proof of that. So

0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.640
<v Speaker 1>there is a pivot that we are seeing among world

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:50.160
<v Speaker 1>leaders but also climate advocates that economic growth and progress

0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.880
<v Speaker 1>on other metrics are also something that people care deeply about.

0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:59.520
<v Speaker 1>That any climate action that goes against those progress metrics

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:01.840
<v Speaker 1>is not going to fly. You have to find a

0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:06.000
<v Speaker 1>way to make all these metrics work together, and you

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.760
<v Speaker 1>have to find a way to ensure that good information

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.120
<v Speaker 1>gets to people for why these decisions are being made,

0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 1>and so the hope that actually weather events will finally

0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 1>get us on the path of acting on climate is

0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:21.400
<v Speaker 1>one that fewer and fewer people are relying on.

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.720
<v Speaker 2>This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder.

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.120
<v Speaker 2>This episode was produced and sound designed by Jessica Beck.

0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:37.400
<v Speaker 2>It was edited by Aaron Edwards and Emily Buzo. It

0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.720
<v Speaker 2>was mixed by Alex Sugia and fact checked by Adriana Tapia.

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Our senior producer is Naomi Shaven. Our senior editor is

0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth Ponso. Our executive producer is Nicole beamsterbor Sage Fouman

0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:52.000
<v Speaker 2>is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you like this episode,

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<v Speaker 2>make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take wherever

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0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow. Roun MHM