WEBVTT - Could An Anti-LGBTQ Bill  Damage Ghana's Economy?

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>This week, we're heading to Ghana. Recently, the country has

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<v Speaker 2>made headlines for anti LGBTQ legislation that, if passed, could

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<v Speaker 2>have implications on Ghana's effort to reboost its economy.

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<v Speaker 1>For Ghana, there's a human rights issue, but there is

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<v Speaker 1>also a very critical economic issue because it's trying to

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<v Speaker 1>work through this dead crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>In May, the country Supreme Court started hearing legal arguments

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<v Speaker 2>on a bill that seeks to punish people who identify

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<v Speaker 2>as LGBTQ. This week, I discussed with Bloomberg Senior reporter

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<v Speaker 2>Yinka Ibukhan, who's based in Akra, about the possible consequences

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<v Speaker 2>of this legislation being approved not only for Ghana, but

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<v Speaker 2>also for the international financial institutions. I'm Jennifer's Abisaja and

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<v Speaker 2>this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story

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<v Speaker 2>each week from the continent driving the future of global

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<v Speaker 2>growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Jinka, Hi,

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<v Speaker 2>how are you? Thanks for joining us this week?

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>You recently wrote an article about the proposed human sexual

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<v Speaker 2>Rights and Family Values bill in Ghana. You're sitting in

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<v Speaker 2>Akra right now, so you're perfectly primed to give us

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<v Speaker 2>an overview of it. What does it entail?

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<v Speaker 1>This bill punishes identifying as LGBTQ with up to three

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<v Speaker 1>years in jail. It criminalizes LGBTQ groups, It criminalizes support

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<v Speaker 1>for LGBTQ groups. But it also forces people to report

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<v Speaker 1>anyone who they know is LGBTQ or also face punishment.

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<v Speaker 1>And that could include teachers, coworkers, and even family members.

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<v Speaker 1>So in that sense, it's quite a draconian bill, even

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<v Speaker 1>when you look at other anti LGBTQ.

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<v Speaker 3>Bills that have spread. This bill was a long time coming.

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<v Speaker 1>It was introduced in parliament in twenty twenty one in Ghana.

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<v Speaker 4>Those in favor and those against say no a Human

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<v Speaker 4>Sexual Arized and Family Values Bill twenty twenty one. It's

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<v Speaker 4>read a third time and passed.

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<v Speaker 1>But only in February was it passed by lawmakers. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>two citizens are challenging the bill's constitutionality as a Supreme Court.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually they're challenging its constitutionality. Ghana is a signatory to

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of human rights agreements.

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<v Speaker 3>The argument is that this bill.

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<v Speaker 1>Goes against these agreements, but also goes against Ghana's own constitution,

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<v Speaker 1>including the rights of association, the freedom of expression, which

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<v Speaker 1>are also challenged by this bill.

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<v Speaker 2>So this could potentially mean a number of implications for

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<v Speaker 2>Ghana if this actually becomes law. Can you explain that.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the first implication for this kind of bill

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<v Speaker 1>for any country, including Ghana, is that you're restricting the

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<v Speaker 1>rights of your LGBTQ minority. So that in itself is

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<v Speaker 1>a big implication. But in addition to that, Ghana is

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<v Speaker 1>on a pretty precarious situation because it's actually currently going

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<v Speaker 1>through a debt crisis and really needs all the financial

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<v Speaker 1>support it can get. And the main people that are

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<v Speaker 1>coming to its aid right now the World Bank and

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<v Speaker 1>the IMF, and they have very strict non discrimination standards,

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<v Speaker 1>and so this bill actually now calls into question that

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<v Speaker 1>financial support.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's pick that apart, Yinka just a bit. You

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned the IMF and the World Bank. What are their

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<v Speaker 2>stances right now in terms of non discrimination to those

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<v Speaker 2>who they're lending to.

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<v Speaker 1>So the standards of non discrimination impact all marginalized groups

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<v Speaker 1>in recipient countries of development finance support, so that includes women,

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<v Speaker 1>young children, people living with disabilities, ethnic minorities. But increasingly

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<v Speaker 1>we're having it spelled out that sexual minorities also should

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<v Speaker 1>be considered marginalized groups, and that's certainly the case for

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<v Speaker 1>the Worldorld Bank that has a policy that specifies that

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<v Speaker 1>sexual minorities are considered marginalized groups and need to be

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<v Speaker 1>protected and also need to have access to projects that

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<v Speaker 1>are financed by the World Bank. What this bill's proposes

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<v Speaker 1>would actually make it more difficult for LGBTQ minorities in

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<v Speaker 1>Ghana to access World Bank projects.

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<v Speaker 2>When you put it like that, Yinka, it seems very

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<v Speaker 2>clear that these laws would not be beneficial to Ghana

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<v Speaker 2>potentially getting funding from these institutions. But it also puts

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<v Speaker 2>these institutions in a pretty difficult situation that they have

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<v Speaker 2>to essentially walk a fine line in terms of what

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<v Speaker 2>they are policing and what they're not.

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<v Speaker 1>It's definitely a fine line because any stance they take

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<v Speaker 1>openly would be perceived as Western influence. Even though the

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<v Speaker 1>World Bank is the World Bank, there's this sense that

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<v Speaker 1>it is a Western organization and that it shouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>imposing Western values on countries because it is very much

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<v Speaker 1>being framed as.

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<v Speaker 3>A sovereignty issue.

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<v Speaker 1>But that's the framing of the situation, and that makes

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<v Speaker 1>it more difficult for organization perceived as Western like the

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<v Speaker 1>World Back and the ims to speak against it or

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<v Speaker 1>act against it. But there's also some dishonesty about the

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<v Speaker 1>bills because we're framing it as a sovereignty issue. But

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<v Speaker 1>these ideas actually in large part exports it.

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<v Speaker 2>When you say, Yinka that these family values not necessarily

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<v Speaker 2>are coming from Ghana or from Africa, I mean, where

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<v Speaker 2>would you say they originate from? Then? How did this

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<v Speaker 2>become an African story in twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's actually well documented that there is so called

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<v Speaker 1>pro family movement that's come mostly from the US that

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<v Speaker 1>is spreading this anti LGBTQ agenda, and you're seeing it

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<v Speaker 1>in the US with a legislation against the abortion, against

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<v Speaker 1>the just restricting access to contraceptives, this idea that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you need to protect the family by ensuring that women

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<v Speaker 1>can have as many children as possible.

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<v Speaker 3>And also the family in that.

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<v Speaker 1>Context is defined as the union between a man and

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<v Speaker 1>a woman who have a responsibility to create to keep

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<v Speaker 1>the population growing, and so anything that's seen as challenging that,

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<v Speaker 1>including having same sex unions or same sex couples, is

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<v Speaker 1>something that this group, which is mostly far right US

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<v Speaker 1>evangelical is spreading and in Africa it's gotten more attraction

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<v Speaker 1>than elsewhere, and so Ghana is only one of the

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<v Speaker 1>pieces where it's had an influence.

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<v Speaker 2>After the break, we'll discuss why anti LGBTQ laws are

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<v Speaker 2>spreading across the continent and zero in on Uganda's recently

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<v Speaker 2>passed legislation.

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<v Speaker 1>Ghana is the latest African country to Pastor Konian laws

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<v Speaker 1>aimed at the community, after Uganda introduced harsh new measures

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<v Speaker 1>last year.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yinka, let's focus on another country. We've just heard

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<v Speaker 2>there that Uganda passed similar legislation to what we are

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<v Speaker 2>seeing in Ghana. Remind us what happened there.

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<v Speaker 1>Uganda has in a way become the original headquarters for

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<v Speaker 1>this mostly US led pro family movement, and in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four team introduced for the first time anti LGBTQ legislation

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<v Speaker 1>that was considered quite draconian, so much so that it

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<v Speaker 1>was called the Kilder Gays Bill. That legislation was eventually

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<v Speaker 1>struck out by the courts, but was reintroduced very recently

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<v Speaker 1>and became law in twenty twenty three. As much as

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<v Speaker 1>the LGBTQ agenda has recorded some success in Uganda. The

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<v Speaker 1>activist community in Uganda has also fought really hard over

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<v Speaker 1>now over a decade.

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<v Speaker 2>And Yinka, maybe let's go back to Ghana. Of the

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<v Speaker 2>people you spoke with in the country and in particular

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<v Speaker 2>the economic consequences of this potential bill if it were

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<v Speaker 2>to become law, what are their biggest concerns about this?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the average Canayan is not really following the

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<v Speaker 1>legal process that's leading to this bill, and even less

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<v Speaker 1>looking at the economic implication. They're facing enough challenges with

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<v Speaker 1>higher inflation, high cost of living, a depreciating currency.

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<v Speaker 3>They have a lot on their hands.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not really looking at the LGBTQ minority and what

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<v Speaker 1>Parliament is doing. However, Ghana is in an election year,

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<v Speaker 1>so what you're seeing is that politicians and religious.

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<v Speaker 3>Leaders, traditional leaders.

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<v Speaker 1>Are politicizing this bill and kind of making it a

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<v Speaker 1>bigger deal than it is to the average Ghanian. But

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<v Speaker 1>because it's election, everything is a big deal right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Everything is a potential to sway the vote one way.

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<v Speaker 3>Or the other.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, back to the funding aspect of it, because

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<v Speaker 2>you bring up the struggles that the Ghanaian economy is

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<v Speaker 2>going through. I mean, what does that mean then? For

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<v Speaker 2>potential funding from the World Bank, Is that on hold

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<v Speaker 2>until we get more clarity on this bill.

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<v Speaker 1>No, now it's business as usual. Everything is continuing. The

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<v Speaker 1>stands of the World Bank is that it doesn't comment

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<v Speaker 1>on a bill, it has to wait for it to

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<v Speaker 1>become law. So for now everything continues as usual. But

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<v Speaker 1>we do know that in Uganda after the bill became law,

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<v Speaker 1>the World Bank halted new funding to Uganda, so there

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<v Speaker 1>is a precedent for halting funding to a country that

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<v Speaker 1>adopts anti LGBTQ legislation. But as far as Ghana goes,

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<v Speaker 1>this is still the bill. World Bank is still funding.

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<v Speaker 1>The IMF is also continuing as planned. But the fear

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<v Speaker 1>is really that if the bill does become law, that

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<v Speaker 1>funding and the IMF program could be put into jeopardy,

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<v Speaker 1>and that by virtue of the IMF program going into

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<v Speaker 1>jeopardy or being impacted, we could have twenty billion of

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<v Speaker 1>external debt restructuring also being impacted, which would be catastrophic

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<v Speaker 1>for Ghana at this.

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<v Speaker 2>Point and our thanks to Yinka there for that reporting.

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<v Speaker 2>As Yinka described, the family values movement is coming at

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<v Speaker 2>a time where sub Saharan Africa is facing an acute

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<v Speaker 2>funding squeeze spurned on by higher borrowing costs in the West,

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<v Speaker 2>so support from the international institutions is critical. But also

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<v Speaker 2>critical is how these financial lenders handle the erosion of

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<v Speaker 2>human rights in Ghana and how that could potentially set

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<v Speaker 2>a precedent for what we're likely to see in other countries.

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<v Speaker 2>You can read more on that story on Bloomberg dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>The Next Africa podcast is available every week wherever you

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<v Speaker 2>usually get your podcast. I'm Jennifer Zabasaja. Thanks as always

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<v Speaker 2>for listening and