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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.

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Speaker 2: This week, we're heading to Ghana. Recently, the country has

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Speaker 2: made headlines for anti LGBTQ legislation that, if passed, could

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Speaker 2: have implications on Ghana's effort to reboost its economy.

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Speaker 1: For Ghana, there's a human rights issue, but there is

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Speaker 1: also a very critical economic issue because it's trying to

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Speaker 1: work through this dead crisis.

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Speaker 2: In May, the country Supreme Court started hearing legal arguments

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Speaker 2: on a bill that seeks to punish people who identify

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Speaker 2: as LGBTQ. This week, I discussed with Bloomberg Senior reporter

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Speaker 2: Yinka Ibukhan, who's based in Akra, about the possible consequences

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Speaker 2: of this legislation being approved not only for Ghana, but

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Speaker 2: also for the international financial institutions. I'm Jennifer's Abisaja and

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Speaker 2: this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story

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Speaker 2: each week from the continent driving the future of global

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Speaker 2: growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide. Jinka, Hi,

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Speaker 2: how are you? Thanks for joining us this week?

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: You recently wrote an article about the proposed human sexual

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Speaker 2: Rights and Family Values bill in Ghana. You're sitting in

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Speaker 2: Akra right now, so you're perfectly primed to give us

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Speaker 2: an overview of it. What does it entail?

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Speaker 1: This bill punishes identifying as LGBTQ with up to three

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Speaker 1: years in jail. It criminalizes LGBTQ groups, It criminalizes support

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Speaker 1: for LGBTQ groups. But it also forces people to report

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Speaker 1: anyone who they know is LGBTQ or also face punishment.

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Speaker 1: And that could include teachers, coworkers, and even family members.

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Speaker 1: So in that sense, it's quite a draconian bill, even

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Speaker 1: when you look at other anti LGBTQ.

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Speaker 3: Bills that have spread. This bill was a long time coming.

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Speaker 1: It was introduced in parliament in twenty twenty one in Ghana.

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Speaker 4: Those in favor and those against say no a Human

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Speaker 4: Sexual Arized and Family Values Bill twenty twenty one. It's

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Speaker 4: read a third time and passed.

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Speaker 1: But only in February was it passed by lawmakers. Now,

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Speaker 1: two citizens are challenging the bill's constitutionality as a Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: Actually they're challenging its constitutionality. Ghana is a signatory to

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Speaker 1: a lot of human rights agreements.

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Speaker 3: The argument is that this bill.

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Speaker 1: Goes against these agreements, but also goes against Ghana's own constitution,

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Speaker 1: including the rights of association, the freedom of expression, which

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Speaker 1: are also challenged by this bill.

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Speaker 2: So this could potentially mean a number of implications for

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Speaker 2: Ghana if this actually becomes law. Can you explain that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the first implication for this kind of bill

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Speaker 1: for any country, including Ghana, is that you're restricting the

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Speaker 1: rights of your LGBTQ minority. So that in itself is

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Speaker 1: a big implication. But in addition to that, Ghana is

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Speaker 1: on a pretty precarious situation because it's actually currently going

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Speaker 1: through a debt crisis and really needs all the financial

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Speaker 1: support it can get. And the main people that are

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Speaker 1: coming to its aid right now the World Bank and

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Speaker 1: the IMF, and they have very strict non discrimination standards,

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Speaker 1: and so this bill actually now calls into question that

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Speaker 1: financial support.

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Speaker 2: So let's pick that apart, Yinka just a bit. You

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Speaker 2: mentioned the IMF and the World Bank. What are their

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Speaker 2: stances right now in terms of non discrimination to those

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Speaker 2: who they're lending to.

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Speaker 1: So the standards of non discrimination impact all marginalized groups

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Speaker 1: in recipient countries of development finance support, so that includes women,

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Speaker 1: young children, people living with disabilities, ethnic minorities. But increasingly

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Speaker 1: we're having it spelled out that sexual minorities also should

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Speaker 1: be considered marginalized groups, and that's certainly the case for

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Speaker 1: the Worldorld Bank that has a policy that specifies that

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Speaker 1: sexual minorities are considered marginalized groups and need to be

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Speaker 1: protected and also need to have access to projects that

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Speaker 1: are financed by the World Bank. What this bill's proposes

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Speaker 1: would actually make it more difficult for LGBTQ minorities in

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Speaker 1: Ghana to access World Bank projects.

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Speaker 2: When you put it like that, Yinka, it seems very

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Speaker 2: clear that these laws would not be beneficial to Ghana

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Speaker 2: potentially getting funding from these institutions. But it also puts

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Speaker 2: these institutions in a pretty difficult situation that they have

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Speaker 2: to essentially walk a fine line in terms of what

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Speaker 2: they are policing and what they're not.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely a fine line because any stance they take

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Speaker 1: openly would be perceived as Western influence. Even though the

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Speaker 1: World Bank is the World Bank, there's this sense that

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Speaker 1: it is a Western organization and that it shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: imposing Western values on countries because it is very much

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Speaker 1: being framed as.

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Speaker 3: A sovereignty issue.

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Speaker 1: But that's the framing of the situation, and that makes

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Speaker 1: it more difficult for organization perceived as Western like the

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Speaker 1: World Back and the ims to speak against it or

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Speaker 1: act against it. But there's also some dishonesty about the

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Speaker 1: bills because we're framing it as a sovereignty issue. But

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Speaker 1: these ideas actually in large part exports it.

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Speaker 2: When you say, Yinka that these family values not necessarily

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Speaker 2: are coming from Ghana or from Africa, I mean, where

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Speaker 2: would you say they originate from? Then? How did this

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Speaker 2: become an African story in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: So it's actually well documented that there is so called

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Speaker 1: pro family movement that's come mostly from the US that

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Speaker 1: is spreading this anti LGBTQ agenda, and you're seeing it

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Speaker 1: in the US with a legislation against the abortion, against

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Speaker 1: the just restricting access to contraceptives, this idea that you know,

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Speaker 1: you need to protect the family by ensuring that women

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Speaker 1: can have as many children as possible.

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Speaker 3: And also the family in that.

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Speaker 1: Context is defined as the union between a man and

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Speaker 1: a woman who have a responsibility to create to keep

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Speaker 1: the population growing, and so anything that's seen as challenging that,

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Speaker 1: including having same sex unions or same sex couples, is

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Speaker 1: something that this group, which is mostly far right US

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Speaker 1: evangelical is spreading and in Africa it's gotten more attraction

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Speaker 1: than elsewhere, and so Ghana is only one of the

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Speaker 1: pieces where it's had an influence.

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Speaker 2: After the break, we'll discuss why anti LGBTQ laws are

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Speaker 2: spreading across the continent and zero in on Uganda's recently

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Speaker 2: passed legislation.

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Speaker 1: Ghana is the latest African country to Pastor Konian laws

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Speaker 1: aimed at the community, after Uganda introduced harsh new measures

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Speaker 1: last year.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Yinka, let's focus on another country. We've just heard

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Speaker 2: there that Uganda passed similar legislation to what we are

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Speaker 2: seeing in Ghana. Remind us what happened there.

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Speaker 1: Uganda has in a way become the original headquarters for

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Speaker 1: this mostly US led pro family movement, and in twenty

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Speaker 1: four team introduced for the first time anti LGBTQ legislation

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Speaker 1: that was considered quite draconian, so much so that it

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Speaker 1: was called the Kilder Gays Bill. That legislation was eventually

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Speaker 1: struck out by the courts, but was reintroduced very recently

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Speaker 1: and became law in twenty twenty three. As much as

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Speaker 1: the LGBTQ agenda has recorded some success in Uganda. The

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Speaker 1: activist community in Uganda has also fought really hard over

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Speaker 1: now over a decade.

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Speaker 2: And Yinka, maybe let's go back to Ghana. Of the

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Speaker 2: people you spoke with in the country and in particular

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Speaker 2: the economic consequences of this potential bill if it were

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Speaker 2: to become law, what are their biggest concerns about this?

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Speaker 1: I mean, the average Canayan is not really following the

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Speaker 1: legal process that's leading to this bill, and even less

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Speaker 1: looking at the economic implication. They're facing enough challenges with

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Speaker 1: higher inflation, high cost of living, a depreciating currency.

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Speaker 3: They have a lot on their hands.

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Speaker 1: They're not really looking at the LGBTQ minority and what

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Speaker 1: Parliament is doing. However, Ghana is in an election year,

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Speaker 1: so what you're seeing is that politicians and religious.

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Speaker 3: Leaders, traditional leaders.

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Speaker 1: Are politicizing this bill and kind of making it a

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Speaker 1: bigger deal than it is to the average Ghanian. But

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Speaker 1: because it's election, everything is a big deal right now.

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Speaker 1: Everything is a potential to sway the vote one way.

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Speaker 3: Or the other.

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Speaker 2: I mean, back to the funding aspect of it, because

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Speaker 2: you bring up the struggles that the Ghanaian economy is

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Speaker 2: going through. I mean, what does that mean then? For

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Speaker 2: potential funding from the World Bank, Is that on hold

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Speaker 2: until we get more clarity on this bill.

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Speaker 1: No, now it's business as usual. Everything is continuing. The

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Speaker 1: stands of the World Bank is that it doesn't comment

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Speaker 1: on a bill, it has to wait for it to

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Speaker 1: become law. So for now everything continues as usual. But

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Speaker 1: we do know that in Uganda after the bill became law,

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Speaker 1: the World Bank halted new funding to Uganda, so there

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Speaker 1: is a precedent for halting funding to a country that

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Speaker 1: adopts anti LGBTQ legislation. But as far as Ghana goes,

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Speaker 1: this is still the bill. World Bank is still funding.

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Speaker 1: The IMF is also continuing as planned. But the fear

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Speaker 1: is really that if the bill does become law, that

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Speaker 1: funding and the IMF program could be put into jeopardy,

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Speaker 1: and that by virtue of the IMF program going into

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Speaker 1: jeopardy or being impacted, we could have twenty billion of

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Speaker 1: external debt restructuring also being impacted, which would be catastrophic

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Speaker 1: for Ghana at this.

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Speaker 2: Point and our thanks to Yinka there for that reporting.

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Speaker 2: As Yinka described, the family values movement is coming at

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Speaker 2: a time where sub Saharan Africa is facing an acute

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Speaker 2: funding squeeze spurned on by higher borrowing costs in the West,

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Speaker 2: so support from the international institutions is critical. But also

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Speaker 2: critical is how these financial lenders handle the erosion of

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Speaker 2: human rights in Ghana and how that could potentially set

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Speaker 2: a precedent for what we're likely to see in other countries.

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Speaker 2: You can read more on that story on Bloomberg dot com.

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Speaker 2: The Next Africa podcast is available every week wherever you

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Speaker 2: usually get your podcast. I'm Jennifer Zabasaja. Thanks as always

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Speaker 2: for listening and