1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's hear it for the Man, the 4 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: Myth Legend super producer, mister Max Williams. We are live 5 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 1: in the studio. We've been recording more in person. I'm 6 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: Ben your Nola, and I think we did the vibe. 7 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: It's a good vibe. 8 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, We've got some nag Champa burning, some fresh roasted 9 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 3: coffee beans, some Artistanal espresso that we're sipping. I do 10 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 3: want to say that we're actually in a different studio 11 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 3: today than we have the last couple of times. 12 00:00:58,800 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: That's true. 13 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: We are in the corner office here at the iHeart, 14 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: at the iHeart Compound. All our studios have pretty cool names. 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 2: This one is Prince. 16 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: And what I love about recording in this studio is 17 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: we will have people walking by this bank of four 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: big windows and every so often they stop. And you know, 19 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: I know some folks might not enjoy that, but I 20 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: love it. I love feeling like I'm in exhibit or 21 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: I'm in a zoo. Every time I'm in the zoo, 22 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: I see the animals, I'm like, why do you get 23 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: all the attention. 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 3: The voyeer and me is pleased and I will never 25 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: not pronounce it voy air, which, by the way, I 26 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 3: also decided that you know the band Pearl Jam. You know, 27 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 3: people often put the emphasis on the pearl pearl Jam. 28 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 3: I like to call them pearl Jam. 29 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: I got your back. 31 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: The thing about this studio is that it makes us 32 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: somewhat public figures when we're recording, and it's apropos for today, 33 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: I see, because we are going to talk about. 34 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: Walk that one a long ways than I really, We're. 35 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: Gonna talk about a public figure who is perhaps a 36 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: bit more. 37 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 2: Well known than us. Yeah, Ralph Nadir. 38 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: Yes, which is funny because Nader, when spelled differently in 39 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: a D I R is a very low points the 40 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: lowest point, and it makes you think about nominative determinism. 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: But despite the name our pale, Ralph has been a 42 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: instrumental figure in the life of America. 43 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's the Green Party guy, right, m hm. 44 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 3: He's always been a real booster for clean energy and 45 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 3: you know, just a general do gooder. You know, he's 46 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 3: the kind of cat you see pop into like democracy 47 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 3: now just to talk about the state of the world. 48 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 3: And I think his perspective is valid now more than ever. 49 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 3: He's not really playing the political game anymore. I think 50 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 3: he's a bit more of a consultant, you know, public figure, 51 00:02:58,840 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: kind of speaker. 52 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 2: That's right. But there was a time where he. 53 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: Was really playing with the big dogs in terms of, 54 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 3: you know, putting himself in to the political process. Ran 55 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 3: for president a couple of times, arguably to some through 56 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 3: a bit of a wrench into the works in terms of, 57 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 3: you know, the balance of votes, and maybe considered to 58 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: have done more harm than good by some just in 59 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 3: terms of like splitting the ticket and all of that 60 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 3: kind of stuff. I don't really have a perspective on 61 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 3: that one way or the other, but it certainly is 62 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 3: part of the conversation. 63 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: Sure. 64 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, Especially back in two thousand, al Gore was running 65 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: for president and members of the Democratic Party were pretty 66 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: open in their belief that Ralph Nader cost Democrats the election. 67 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: That's not us saying that. That's people like current President 68 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: Joe Biden, who said literally to the New York Times, 69 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: Nader cost us the election. 70 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: Right. 71 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 3: Nader is not going to be welcome anywhere near the corridors. 72 00:03:58,320 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: Which corridors is he talking about the. 73 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: Corridors of power the halls of Congress. But he had 74 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: a well established reputation and track record going into those elections. 75 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen sixties and the nineteen seventies, he 76 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: waged a war of conscience on one of the biggest 77 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 1: pieces of the automotive industry. In nineteen sixty six, he 78 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: was the protagonist witness, I would call it, at these 79 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: hearings about automobile safety. 80 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 2: That's right. 81 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,479 Speaker 3: They were conducted by Senator Abraham Ribikoff of Connecticut, of course, 82 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 3: which is a fabulous name for a politician. And at 83 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: the time Nader was kind of an upstart young lawyer 84 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 3: and you know, political activists. He had just published a 85 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: book with the very not salacious but you kind of 86 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,239 Speaker 3: get it what it's about, title Unsafe at Any Speed, 87 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: The Designed in Dangers of the American Automobile. And we've 88 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 3: talked a lot about the history of the American automobile, 89 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 3: you much longer than I on your show car stuff, 90 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 3: but also just the idea of like seat belts, like 91 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: when they were implemented and how originally it was sort 92 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 3: of like, yeah, we'll throw those in and there is 93 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 3: a long period of the history of this, you know, 94 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 3: obviously incredibly important invention where safety just was not a 95 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 3: concern and that took a lot of political activism to 96 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 3: put into place. 97 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right. 98 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: One of my favorite weird rabbit holes to go down 99 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: in YouTube land is these compilations of people who were 100 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: angry about seat belt laws. You will hear the catchphrase 101 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: communist in all these interviews, and it's someone saying, well, 102 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: you know, making us do this. It's one more step 103 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: to communism, but it's also a huge leap forward in safety, 104 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,600 Speaker 1: and it doesn't really depend on your political ideology. Why 105 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: did this guy, this young lawyer get elevated from being 106 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: witness to kind of a celebrity public figure. It's the 107 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: fact that he was targeted for retaliation by General Motors. 108 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: General Motors, as we'll find, hired pis to try to 109 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: dig up dirt on a squeaky clean dude. 110 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 2: That's right. 111 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, back in nineteen thirty eight, Nator's mother, Rose, 112 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 3: actually took her four kids for a visit back to Lebanon, 113 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 3: where their heritage originates, and they actually waited in line 114 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 3: to meet the archbishop of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and 115 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 3: I believe it's pronounced zalais. But this really it's sort 116 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 3: of like one of these apocryphal type stories, like you. 117 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: Know, Abraham Lincoln cutting down the cherry tree or. 118 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 3: Whatever when watch whatever the apocryphal because I can't even 119 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,559 Speaker 3: keep him straight, irrelevant because it probably didn't happen. 120 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 2: This may or may not have happened. 121 00:06:56,960 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: But the story goes that young Ralph, four year old 122 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 3: Ralph sprightly, young lad, refused to kiss the ring, which 123 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: is the thing you do you're supposed to do when 124 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 3: you meet a bishop, an archbishop at the very least, 125 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: and he said, no, I shall not kiss the ring. 126 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 3: And that is a philosophy that he carried through to 127 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: throughout his career. 128 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 129 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, And the end of that story is apparently the 130 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,240 Speaker 1: archbishop liked his vibe and so he padded Ralph on 131 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: the head and he said a lot of ideas going 132 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: to come from this boy's head. And that's a cool 133 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: way to handle it. 134 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 2: Is it is so him killed? 135 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: I hope not. But Ralph grew up in Connecticut, right, 136 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: and he has a very American origin story. It's kind 137 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: of like an American dream story. His father, nad Or 138 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: the Elder, arrived in the US at the tender age 139 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: of nineteen. He only had twenty bucks in his pocket, 140 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: and he was able to from that admittedly small starting capital, 141 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: he was able to a two story, ten room house 142 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: and then a building in the nearby town that became 143 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: the Highland Arms, which would be the family's restaurant, and 144 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: all the kids work at the restaurant. This this feels 145 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: already like American myth making. You know, this one's not apocryphal. 146 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: This really did happen, But it's an inspiring story. 147 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 3: Oh yes, especially the whole arrived on these shores with 148 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: twenty dollars in his pocket and a spring in his 149 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 3: step and a dream in his heart. You know, you'd 150 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 3: love to see it. 151 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: And he says later, looking back in life, he says, 152 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: our restaurant, the Highland Arms, was kind of a It 153 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: was almost like a salon, you know, a town meeting place, 154 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: a salon, uh huh, yeah, a pearl jam And so 155 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: Ralph would hang out and listen to these people talk 156 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: their arguments, their views, their ideologies. And when he was 157 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: fourteen years old, he was carrying home printed cop of 158 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: the Congressional record, which he would read from start to finish. 159 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: I love to read. 160 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: And let me tell you, the Congressional record, for the 161 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: most part, is a bit of. 162 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 2: A snooze, a bit of a slog. 163 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 3: Indeed, gosh, all this stuff sounds made up, but it's not. Yeah, 164 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 3: fourteen years old reading these transcripts absolutely incredible. 165 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 2: And you know, you hear about places like this restaurant. 166 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 3: You know here in Atlanta we have Manuel's or manuals 167 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 3: whennounce it, which is for a long time been a 168 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: longstanding kind of democratic sort of like place to hold court, 169 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 3: Jimmy Carter's favorite mark exactly. And you hear about that 170 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 3: in lots of different places in Connecticut with its proximity 171 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: to the seats of power, you know, New York and DC. 172 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 3: A lot of very politically active folks in this community. 173 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: So really cool and makes a lot of sense that 174 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 3: he was surrounded and kind of steeped in this world 175 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 3: and that he was able to at an early age 176 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 3: kind of formulate his own perspective as opposed to kind 177 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 3: of like maybe following others. 178 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's not get twisted. He was an exceptional kid, 179 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: but he was still doing normal kid stuff. He had 180 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: a job as a newspaper boy. He would play baseball 181 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: for hours during the weekend. It's just that in addition 182 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: to that, Ralph was already reading biographies about the real muckrakers, 183 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: the journalists who went hard on the paint back in 184 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: the turn of the century. 185 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking truth to power, right. 186 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: And he interviewed customers they pay for something at the restaurant, 187 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: at the cash register, and he would probably he would 188 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: hit him with stuff like what do you think about 189 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: the gold standard? 190 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: That's right. 191 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 3: At one point he actually had a pretty and depth 192 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: conversation with Norman Thomas, who had just done a lecture. 193 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 3: And this guy was a very famous socialist and presidential candidate, 194 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 3: also somewhat of a fringe presidential candidate. You know, I 195 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 3: don't know that I would think of the name Norman 196 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 3: Thomas and associated with someone who's run for presidents six times. 197 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 3: But that's usually the way history treats people that don't, 198 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 3: you know, win. But he he says to him, or 199 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: asks of him, what is your greatest achievement? A little 200 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 3: bit of a softball question, I suppose, are a little 201 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 3: bit of like the thing a kid would ask for 202 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 3: a book report. But all depends on the person, doesn't it, 203 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: you know? And he got an answer that maybe he 204 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 3: wasn't expecting. 205 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, this guy. 206 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: Norman says his greatest achievement is quote having the Democrats 207 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: steal my agenda. 208 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: WHOA. 209 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: What he means by that is yet he may not 210 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: have become president, but his views empowered and inspired people 211 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: in the Democratic Party, and they later enacted many of 212 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: the changes that he was hoping for. So he's saying, 213 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: the game is bigger than me, and that's something Ralph 214 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: Nader took to heart. So he goes to Harvard Law 215 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 1: School and he says he's pretty funny. He's a good 216 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,959 Speaker 1: public speaker. He later says, from day one, I laughed 217 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: at the game to prepare corporate lawyers. If anyone fell 218 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: off the bandwagon and became a lawyer for the poor, 219 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: it was viewed as a random event. I love this part. 220 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: They made mine sharp by making them narrow. 221 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 2: Well, that is kind of how you make things sharp 222 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: in a knife. 223 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 3: Sharpening of context. But I love that that is so 224 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 3: visual and really really a smart way of looking at it. 225 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 3: It's true because these types of programs at these Ivy 226 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 3: League schools are designed to churn out a very specific 227 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,479 Speaker 3: type of individual. The caters to a very specific demographic, 228 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: aka the super wealthy, and anyone that maybe chooses to 229 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 3: go into more of a social justice field or maybe 230 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 3: to defend the poor or people that are downtrodden are 231 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: being taken advantage of. That's seen as a failure and 232 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 3: they're probably not asked to speak at alumni events or 233 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 3: you know, graduation ceremonies. 234 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 2: So not unless they become a huge public figure. Ye, wells, 235 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: we'll see. Yeah. 236 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: And there's another thing I love about Ralph Nader in 237 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: this point in time. So he's going to one of 238 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,559 Speaker 1: the most prestigious schools on the planet, and he's also 239 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: regularly disappearing. He becomes a drifter. He hitchhikes around the country. 240 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,559 Speaker 3: He's like this beat poet, kind of like young political 241 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 3: activist ideologue. 242 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: I love it. 243 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 3: It's just a really Johnny Appleseed type vish no, pretty cool. 244 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's researching the rights of Indigenous Americans, looking into 245 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: immigration and my workers. He's asking himself the big questions 246 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: about Puerto Rico. And then he starts reading about automobile 247 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: safety because he sees so many car crashes during his 248 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: time hitchhiking. 249 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 3: Huge shout out to to Mark Green, who wrote the 250 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 3: piece Nator then and now for the Nation back in 251 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 3: twenty fifteen. 252 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: You can find that online. I believe we may have 253 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 2: gotten this from. 254 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: EPSCO, so it might not be readily available. If you 255 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 3: can get your hands on it worth a full read. 256 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 3: So remarkably, I imagine, despite all of his absences, it's like 257 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: a school marm. You know, you got too many absences. 258 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 3: He did graduate, correct, Yeah. 259 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: And he went to the YMCA. He was twenty nine 260 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: years old. He goes to the YMCA because he wants 261 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: to work on what he and Mark Green describe as 262 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: body rights. But again, you know, when you graduate from 263 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: an institution like this, people take you seriously. Doors open. 264 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: He becomes pretty quickly a consultant in the halls of power. 265 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: He is working with the Assistant Secretary of Labor for 266 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: the Kennedy administration. And the entire time he's doing this, 267 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: he's always bringing up highway safety. 268 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: It's like his hobby horse. And he later writes a 269 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: groundbreaking article also in the Nation called the safe Car 270 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: You can't buy That's. 271 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 3: Right, And you know he builds on what he learned 272 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 3: on his terms by the way, which I love. You know, 273 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 3: his education is Harvard education. He is using it, he's 274 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: weaponizing it and using in a way that perhaps the 275 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 3: administrators of such a university would not have intended, which 276 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 3: I love that he's almost like using their power, which 277 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 3: you know, knowledge obviously is power, and this type of 278 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 3: deep knowledge of the law incredibly powerful because it's something 279 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 3: that just so many people don't possess, and he's building 280 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 3: on it in a way that is helping consumers. 281 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the idea, right. 282 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: He's not in this for a plum corporate gig that 283 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: turns him into a millionaire necessarily. In fact, he builds 284 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: off his research from his time as a student and 285 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: a drifter, and he eventually gets a deal to write 286 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: a book called Unsafe at Any Speed that designed in 287 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: Dangers of the American Automobile. He actually writes this book 288 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: twice because when he got the publishing deal, he left 289 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 1: the only copy of the book in a cab. And 290 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: you know how it is now, folks, if you ever 291 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: use Lyft or uber and you leave something in there, 292 00:15:58,360 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: it's still difficult to find it. 293 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 294 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: A cab A cab in the nineteen sixties, you know 295 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: what I mean, that's not so funny. 296 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 3: It reminds me of the kind of weirdo fringe artist 297 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 3: Daniel Johnston, who he didn't know about like tape duplication, 298 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 3: so he would actually record his album every time he 299 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 3: put it he gave it to somebody, he'd record it 300 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 3: and then draw the cover every single time. That's obviously 301 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 3: a little different, but I just think that level of 302 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 3: scrappiness is super cool. 303 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 304 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: And he in this book, which publishes in nineteen sixty 305 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: five in November, he says, Look, the reason for most 306 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: car crashes basically is not the driver. It's not human error. 307 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: He says, the reason for most car crashes it's not 308 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: the quote nut behind the wheel, but the nut in 309 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: the wheel. Because he's talking about the way the cars 310 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: are built and that they're being designed, in his opinion, 311 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: for style rather than for safety. 312 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is in the sixties, right, Yeah. Yeah, So, 313 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 3: I mean, like again, we talked about the history of 314 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 3: the automobile and the Model T and originally I think 315 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 3: a lot of it was just about logistics, about creating 316 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 3: something as cheaply and scalable as possible, but just safety 317 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 3: wasn't as much of an issue at the beginning, there 318 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: just weren't that many of these things and infrastructure, you know, 319 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 3: would take time to follow. But as we all know, 320 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 3: the law lags way behind, egregiously behind what is actually 321 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 3: needed to keep people safe, whether it is in road 322 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 3: laws or manufacturing sects. 323 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: Technology will always outpace legislation for good or for ill, 324 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: and in this book he brings out which is worth 325 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: a read. And again he's a very talented author. And 326 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: there are a lot of examples of automobile safety or 327 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: lack thereof in this book. One example he really focuses 328 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: on is the Chevy Corvare, especially the nineteen sixty to 329 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: sixty three models. He calls this thing in the very 330 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: beginning of the book, he calls this thing the one 331 00:17:58,359 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: car accident. 332 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 3: Usually it takes two to tango right. But I think 333 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 3: he's referring to some issues with the handling. I guess 334 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 3: the drive train. 335 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. 336 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 3: I'm not a car expert of this vehicle. That was 337 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 3: it was just real squirrely right. It could like easily 338 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 3: spin out. 339 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: So if you've ever worked in any kind of group project, 340 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: we all know that the idea you have at the 341 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: beginning is not going to be the end result. Right 342 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: when you're finally done, when you actually make the thing, 343 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: you're gonna have modifications. And the guy who designed the 344 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: Corvet ed Cole. He knew what he was doing. He 345 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: was smart. He wanted the engine to be all aluminum. 346 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: That's a lighter motor, and it's a little more expensive 347 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: at the time. So the motor they actually do design 348 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: is made of iron instead of aluminum, and that makes 349 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 1: it a lot heavier. 350 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, and shout out to Matt Chrissara from Popular Mechanics. 351 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 3: Now think about that publication, but there's some really really 352 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 3: great writing and Popular Mechanics from his article. Remember when 353 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,479 Speaker 3: Ralph Nader's expose of Chevrolet Corvet paved the way for 354 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 3: better road safety. So, yeah, there was this kind of disconnect. 355 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 3: That extra weight caused some issues with it being kind 356 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 3: of front heavy, like you said, I mean heavy in general, 357 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 3: but also just front heavy. So therefore there was sort 358 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 3: of like a discrepancy in weight between the front and 359 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 3: the back axles. 360 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: And there were other problems with the vehicle related to 361 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: the axles, the suspension, things that would cause it to 362 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: suddenly lose traction. You know how this may happen if 363 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: you were ever at a red light on a rainy 364 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: day or rainy evening, and then you push the gas 365 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: and the tires sort of real quick. That's trying to 366 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: get traction. And the corvet, because of various design flaws, 367 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: was just not good at it. It was fun to drive, 368 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: but it could have a lot of very dangerous problems. 369 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: General Motors this is where we get to the iculous part. 370 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: General Motors a very powerful company then and now they 371 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: heard about Nader through the Grapevine Wall. So we contacted 372 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: them directly multiple times, and they took it personally because 373 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: at the time Nader wrote this book, he was it 374 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: was a culmination point because there had already been more 375 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: than one hundred lawsuits against Chevrolet for the corvat specifically, Yeah, 376 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: not all from Nator. 377 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 2: No, no, no. This was like a known problem. 378 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 3: This is a source of litigation, and Nator was just 379 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 3: kind of connecting the dots here. 380 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: Right, And you can read more about this in a 381 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: Great Time article from nineteen sixty six called Investigations Slight 382 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: Spoiler in the title the Spies who were caught Cold. 383 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 3: Snap also shout out you mentioned we mentioned car stuff earlier. 384 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 2: I believe. 385 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 3: I'm certain because I think I was the producer at 386 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 3: the time. Y'all did a multi part series on the Corvet. 387 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: Yes, multipart series on Corvet. Also a series about automotive recalls, 388 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,919 Speaker 1: which is a huge thing and car stuff. You know 389 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: what I always liked about it is we dive into 390 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: the history of some of some of this stuff totally. 391 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 2: This is gonna be a little bit looser because GM 392 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 2: behaves in a villainous way here and it's fun to talk. 393 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: About He he is thirty two at this time, he's 394 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: only thirty two years old, and General Motors decides he 395 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: is not quite an existential threat, but someone who needs 396 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: to be taken care of, So they hire a law 397 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: firm out of Washington to handle things. Find us something 398 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: on Ralph and he The law firm pays a guy 399 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: named Vincent Gillen, not Vince Gilligan, different dude named Vincent Gillen. 400 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: They pay him a little less than seven thousand dollars. Well, 401 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: i'm our FBI guy, now a PI and they say, 402 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: find whatever you can on this guy. Get us some 403 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: like reputation brow material. 404 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 3: Yeah, And he wrote a letter to I guess some 405 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 3: of his contacts. I'm I'm not clear if they were 406 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 3: connected to the FBI at any point in time, but 407 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 3: he essentially had like subcontractors that he would use to 408 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 3: like do some of his dirty work for him. And 409 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 3: in the letter he said the following. Our job is 410 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 3: to check Nator's life and current activities to determine what 411 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 3: makes him tick, such as his real interest in safety, 412 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 3: his supporters, if any of his politics, his marital status, 413 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:28,360 Speaker 3: his friends. 414 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 2: His women, boys, etc. 415 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 3: Drinking, dope jobs, in fact, all facets of his life. 416 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 3: You could have just said that, buddy, Yeah, he's making 417 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 3: it clear that they're after dirt. You know, this is 418 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 3: not a learn more about thing or boys, you know, 419 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 3: like drinking and dope. His marital status, right, does he 420 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 3: having affairs? And so this group, Gillan and co. They 421 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 3: do some really clever social engineering. They call sixty upwards 422 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,400 Speaker 3: of sixty and relatives of Ralph Nader and they spin 423 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 3: a yarn. They say, we're doing a pre employment investigation. 424 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: We're doing a background check. So his parents are Lebanese immigrants. 425 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 3: They do stuff like trying to figure out if there's 426 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 3: any anti Semitism in his family or in his personal beliefs. 427 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 3: And then they said, he's thirty two years old, he's 428 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 3: got a decent job. Why isn't he married? And this 429 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 3: one's a little not apocryphal, but people don't agree on 430 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 3: how this all went down. In at least two instances, 431 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 3: Nater charges that Gillan tries to put him in compromising 432 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 3: positions with women. He says, one girl, he basically says, 433 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 3: they're trying to do honeypot traps on him. One girl 434 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 3: comes to him at a drug store and for absolutely 435 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 3: no apparent reason, out of the blue, she says, hey, 436 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 3: come to my apartment, let's talk about foreign relations. 437 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty gross. And it goes even further. 438 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 3: There's a second example of this type of tactic where 439 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 3: a second girl is employed and asked him to help 440 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 3: her move some furniture. Oh could you please help me 441 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 3: with that? You a big strong man, And he didn't 442 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 3: even bite like a little. I mean, frankly, it sounds 443 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 3: kind of rude. You know, he should help help the 444 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 3: young lady move the furniture if she needs help. 445 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, he also knew he had a target. 446 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 2: Now he's a wilely guy. It's sure he knows what's up. 447 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: He's very shrewd. 448 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 3: And he totally understands, probably largely from remember the game 449 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 3: that he was laughing at back in Harvard. He knows 450 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 3: the lengths that these types will go to. You know, 451 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 3: he probably learned them from the best himself. 452 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: And this all leads to him testifying at this hearing 453 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: where a Senate subcommittee headed by a Connecticut Democrat named 454 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: Abraham Ribikoff, which mentioned earlier, and this was investigating traffic safety. 455 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: For the entire week leading up to these hearings, the 456 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: private investigators followed him all around DC. They were literally 457 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: doing the Cold War spy stuff, you know, some picturesome 458 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: guy and a fedora and a trench coat peeking around 459 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: the corner. 460 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 2: Where's he going? And they got caught. 461 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: They got kicked out by guards at the Senate Office 462 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: building who said, hey, you guys are walking around like spies. 463 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, knock it off, get right out of town. What 464 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 2: get a different hat? At least you're wearing a spy hat. 465 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you're clearly wearing those like mirrored spy gear shades, 466 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 3: the ones where you can see around knas. 467 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: And they even reference this in the hearing. Ribikoff says, 468 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: there's too much snooping going on, and he says, you know, Natter, 469 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: you can feel pretty proud. They put you through the 470 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: mill and they haven't found a damn thing wrong with you. 471 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: They're saying that this guy actually doesn't have dirt. He 472 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: just means what he says. 473 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 3: I love referring to like private investigators and detectives as 474 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 3: gum shoes. I always think of wearing the world this. 475 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 3: Carmen san Diego, you know where the chief She's like, okay, 476 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 3: gum shoes. 477 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 2: That's yeh, yeah, yeah, that's great. Also, Dix was fun. 478 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 3: I watched seven the other night with my girlfriend and 479 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 3: there's a scene where the swat team kicks in the 480 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 3: door of this, you know, one of the victim's houses, 481 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 3: and they're. 482 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 2: Like, Dix, Dix, you gotta come in and see this. 483 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 3: Yeah. 484 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, No one says that anymore they should. 485 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:27,880 Speaker 1: So Nader finally gets to testify despite all this, all 486 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: these attempts to destroy his character, and he's really good 487 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,679 Speaker 1: as a public speaker. He's calm, he is sometimes a 488 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: little funny, which goes a long way. One journalist called 489 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: him a quote machine gun with facts. 490 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 2: Jesus rat a tat tat. 491 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 3: He says I'm responsible for my actions, but who's responsible 492 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 3: for those of general motors? 493 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 2: And he says, you know who. 494 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: We'll paraphrase here, but he says, Look, if you're an individual, 495 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: you lose your integrity once. If you're a corporation, you 496 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: lose your integrity all the time, and you never encounter 497 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: consequences for it. I'm paraphrasing there, but that's what he's 498 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: pointing out. And some folks from mainly from the right 499 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: side of politics, they try to say, this guy's just 500 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: out flogging his book. He just wants to make money 501 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: selling his book Unsafe at any Speed. 502 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, the honorable Carl Curtis of Nebraska. 503 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 3: I don't think they talk like that in Nebraska, he implies, 504 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 3: just as much, to which Robert Kennedy gives Nator the 505 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 3: chance to say what his real motivations are, to which 506 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 3: Nator responds, very cromulently. 507 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 2: Is that okay? 508 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, great, he says, because I happen to have 509 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 3: a scale of priorities that leads me to engage in 510 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 3: the prevention of cruelty to humans. 511 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 2: My motives are. 512 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 3: Constantly inquired into. Is it wrong to talk about defect 513 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 3: of cars diseased meats. That's a that's a mouthful corporate cheating. 514 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 3: Is it really distasteful that a person cares enough about 515 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 3: issues like these to dedicate his life to changing them? 516 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 3: That's a real what's the word when it's the question 517 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 3: that really doesn't have an answer? Or yeah, yeah, so historical, 518 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 3: that's the rhetorical. Obviously those things are great. That seems 519 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 3: like a really good thing to dedicate your life. 520 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: To, and that should be something with which all members 521 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,200 Speaker 1: of the Senate agree because that's why you're supposed to 522 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 1: go into public office, right to fight for greater good. 523 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: So this gets a lot of coverage, The story, as 524 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: we would say these days, goes viral, and ultimately Nader 525 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: sues GM. They settle out of court for four hundred 526 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand dollars in twenty twenty three money 527 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: that's around that's a little less than four million, So 528 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: it's a big, big win, and Nader's attorney says this 529 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: is the biggest amount ever paid as damages for invasion 530 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: of privacy because they were able to prove that chain 531 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: a coman and trace trace back those gum shoes and 532 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: those Fedora rock and spies all the way back to 533 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: General Motors, and essentially he made the Corvet incredibly unpopular. 534 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: And there's a great Politico article about this from a 535 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: few years back by Andrew Glass says about this moment 536 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: in history. He sank the Corvet by nineteen sixty nine. 537 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: Just a few years later, GM stops production entirely. 538 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 3: I mean, essentially, they were trying to put out a 539 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 3: small car, you know, that would be affordable to consumers 540 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 3: and obviously sell a gazillion of them. But they cut 541 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 3: a lot of corners to make that happen, and Nader 542 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 3: pointed that out, and so they had to basically go 543 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 3: back to the drawing board. 544 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 2: How dare he right? 545 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: I mean that expense alone is far more than in 546 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: that settlement. 547 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, way more. 548 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 1: The US public is incensed about this, and they are 549 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: increasingly on Major's side. His actions directly lead to the 550 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: creation of what we call the National Highway Traffic Safety 551 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: Association the NHTSA, and over the next half a century, 552 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 1: this organization has been in charge of auto safety. They're 553 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: the ones who decide when a recall is going to occur. 554 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's again, this is like, what are we talking here? 555 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 3: This is late sixties now almost in the seventies. Yeah, 556 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine when they stop production. It wasn't until 557 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 3: this point in history that we have an organization, a 558 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 3: government you know, sanctioned organization that is looking out for 559 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 3: the safety of consumers, which. 560 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 2: Is crazy because people have been driving for a while. Yeah, 561 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 2: how long? 562 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 3: What are we talking here? Sorry, I'm totally brain farting on. 563 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 3: Like when the first car came. 564 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: Out, Well, we're thinking you could think of stuff like 565 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: the late eighteen ninety Yeah, that's when Henry Ford builds 566 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: his first car. But then you know, it mainstreams after 567 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: that into the early nineteen hundreds, and the problem is 568 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 1: these cars are getting faster and faster. 569 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 3: That's right, and there and and no one is there 570 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 3: to get people to literally pump the brakes. 571 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 2: Would you say, no one's at the wheel? I would 572 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 2: say so, I would say both of those tests. 573 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: So this this is a good thing. This is inarguably 574 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: a good thing. Over time, this one organization reduces the 575 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: rate of deaths per mile driven by eighty percent. 576 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 2: That's insane. I mean, that's that's incredible. 577 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 3: And there's an analysis from the Center for Auto Safety 578 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 3: that determined that this saved more than three point five 579 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 3: million lives. I mean, we know how even today we 580 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 3: you know, living here in Atlanta, we know how many 581 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 3: people die in traffic accidents. It's still an incredibly dangerous proposition, 582 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 3: even with all of these oversights. 583 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, he is up there in the story of good 584 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: guys in the world of cars. In my opinion, he's 585 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: up there with Neil's Bolin, no relation. He's the dude 586 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 1: who invented the three point seat belt. So that guy 587 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: alone has saved a well over a billion lives by now, 588 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: and Nader at this point, Nader could probably rest on 589 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: his laurels. He went against the goliath and he won. 590 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: But he doesn't. 591 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: Instead of instead of, you know, retiring from public life 592 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: and just hanging out at the family restaurant in Connecticut. 593 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 2: This is step one, right, you know, in a storied career. 594 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,400 Speaker 3: You know, this is the perfect example of a guy 595 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 3: who puts his money where his mouth is, you know, 596 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 3: and he literally takes the money that he made during 597 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 3: this legal victory and started an activist agency called the 598 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 3: Center for Study of Responsive Law. Once again, very pithy 599 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 3: right there in the title. We need law that responds 600 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 3: to the needs of people. 601 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 2: That's right. 602 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: And so he is the progenitor of what we call 603 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: the consumer movement or consumer advocacy movement. He says, let's 604 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: talk about nuclear power, let's talk about the safety of 605 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: oil pipelines. Let's get back to food and drug safety, 606 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: because I think The Jungle was a good book, you know. 607 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: And then of course airlines, pollution, you name it. He 608 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: is fighting what he sees as the good fight. And 609 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:35,480 Speaker 1: the list is incredibly long. You can actually name almost 610 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: any modern consumer safety thing, and he went to bat 611 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: for it. 612 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 2: That's right. 613 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 3: The Markereen piece in the Nation lists them, in no 614 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 3: particular order, vastly things like healthcare, smoking, freedom of information laws, 615 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:58,800 Speaker 3: laws regarding multinationals, educational testing services, occupational hazards and the like. 616 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 3: You know, rights of workers, things like that, specs surrounding 617 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:04,719 Speaker 3: the construction of homes. 618 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And he says, I want to own the 619 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,239 Speaker 1: means of production, at least in the legal sense. So 620 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to run for president. And this led to 621 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: him being somewhat of a divisive figure in the American left. 622 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: In two thousand, as we mentioned at the top of 623 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: this show, as a candidate for the Green Party, he 624 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: got about one hundred thousand votes in Florida. The Democratic 625 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: candidate Al Gore lost, according to the Supreme Court, by 626 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: five hundred and thirty seven votes, and the Democratic Party 627 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: got really really mad about this. They had fought to 628 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: keep him off the ballot. And I remember when this 629 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: occurs same you would hear people say, you know, a 630 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: vote for the Green Party is a vote for the GOP. 631 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: Well, and you could argue that there's some truth to that, 632 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 3: you know, just in terms of you know, if we're 633 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 3: talking about what's right, you know, one thing, but we 634 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 3: live within a system that isn't always about what's right, 635 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:05,040 Speaker 3: and you kind of have. 636 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:06,360 Speaker 2: To choose between. 637 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 3: You know, it's a two party system basically, so when 638 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 3: you have this third party thrown in there, it just 639 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 3: can kind of throw things out of whack and it 640 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 3: can take votes away from the actual real candidate. 641 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 2: Let's be honest. You know, Nator was never going to win. 642 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 3: He was running almost more as like a symbol, you know, 643 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 3: almost as more of like taking a stance. 644 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: It's similar to that conversation you had with the sociologist 645 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: back at the family restaurant. He was hoping that his 646 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: agenda could catch fire, you know what I mean. It's 647 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 1: like if you are playing a team sport. If you're 648 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 1: playing football, a goal doesn't mean that the entire team 649 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: hits the finish line, right, And he's saying, if I 650 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: can just pass this ball of policy on, then my 651 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: team will win. And there's a great two thousand and 652 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: four Guardian profile of Nator by Julian Border that gets 653 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: into this controversy because people were accusing him of falling 654 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: in love with his own magic, of being like Merlin 655 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 1: in a Connecticut Yankee goes to King Arthur's court, which, 656 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: now that I think about it, is even more appropriate. 657 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 1: They said, Look, this guy is just super into himself. 658 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: He doesn't understand how the real world works, and he 659 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 1: is maybe becoming a bit of a zealot, a bit 660 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: of a demagogue, you could say. 661 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 3: The same people have said the same things about like 662 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 3: Bernie Sanders, you know, sure, yeah, and then he's a 663 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 3: similar social justice kind of figure. You know, throughout his 664 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,240 Speaker 3: career he's done very similar things. 665 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: And Nader is aware of this. He told The New 666 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: York Times, we lose to win eventually. That is the 667 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: story of social justice. You have to be willing to 668 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: lose and fight and lose, and fight and lose. And 669 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: fight until the agenda is one. But a lot of 670 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 1: people are saying, hey, man, stop making us lose. 671 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: Though. 672 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean again, to your point, Ben, it's less 673 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 3: about winning than it is about just gradually infiltrating the 674 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 3: consciousness and the rhetoric of the actual party in power. 675 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 3: So but you know, you could argue that there are 676 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 3: ways to go about that without kind of stacking the 677 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 3: deck against them. So again, maybe I sound like I'm 678 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 3: saying that Nator shouldn't have run. I really don't have 679 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 3: a dog in that fight. I just am trying to 680 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 3: look at both sides and see maybe there are other 681 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,439 Speaker 3: ways of going about this that wouldn't have been quite 682 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 3: as divisive. But you know, extreme times call for extreme measures. 683 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 3: So I mean, maybe that's how he was looking out. 684 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 3: The only way to truly get the other side to 685 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 3: pay attention is to show him that there show them 686 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,600 Speaker 3: that there are people that are thinking like him, and 687 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 3: that he can get enough votes to make them realize 688 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 3: maybe we should pivot a little because. 689 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 2: Isn't Gore kind of an environmentalist as well? 690 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 3: Sure? I mean, he obviously made those unpop what it 691 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 3: was it called an inconvenient truth films? You know, and 692 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,240 Speaker 3: not to mention inventing the Internet. 693 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks. 694 00:37:55,480 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: Al Nator is also kind of moving the over window 695 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,880 Speaker 1: what is acceptable to be discussed in the public sphere 696 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: and what is prioritized in those discussions. So while he 697 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: may be a divisive figure, actually he definitely is a 698 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: divisive figure. 699 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 2: Right. 700 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: People have different opinions about him and about his actions 701 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: when running for president. All that aside, there is no 702 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: way around it. Without Ralph Nader, there would not have 703 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: been the consumer rights movement that exists in the United 704 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 1: States today. 705 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, And speaking of putting his money where his mouth is, 706 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 3: I mean, he still stands by all of these things 707 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,600 Speaker 3: that he has put forth in his policies, in his politics, 708 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,479 Speaker 3: and his rhetoric, and in his activism for all these years. 709 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,839 Speaker 3: He was asked in an interview a handful of years 710 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 3: ago if he had ever owned a car, and he says, 711 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 3: a forty nine student Baker was the last car I owned. 712 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,319 Speaker 3: That was the car that if you looked at it, 713 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 3: you couldn't tell the front from the rear. I don't 714 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 3: have a car. You have to take care of them, 715 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,760 Speaker 3: figure out where to park castle with the insurance gouging, 716 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 3: look out for recalls, I use public transportation or walk 717 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 3: when I can. Cars are a nuisance. 718 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 2: I mean, I get it. 719 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: They're also cool and go room room right, right, there's 720 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 1: also that, And you know, the US, there's no secret 721 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: is a car culture the vast majority of the country. 722 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,040 Speaker 1: You know, you kind of need a car to get 723 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 1: reliable transit. That does not always have to be the case. 724 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: That may change in the future. But with all this 725 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: we can say Ralph Nader took on GM anyone. 726 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 2: It's right. 727 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 3: There's one amazing final quote from another interview where he 728 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 3: was asked about any of his guilty pleasures that he 729 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 3: might have. The interviewer said, do you secretly love Fast 730 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 3: and Furious movies? And I'm sure Ralph dinner is like 731 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 3: what's that? He responded, I do like organic ice cream. 732 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 3: But no, I don't watch many movies because there's so 733 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 3: much to do that occupies almost all my waking time. 734 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 3: In fact, I don't I don't even look at TV anymore. 735 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 3: I listened to NPR and read the newspapers, the Post 736 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 3: and the Times. I'm completely a print person. I don't 737 00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 3: have a computer. I use an underwood typewriter. I don't 738 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 3: have email or the Internet because I want to get 739 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 3: work done and not deal with all the crap. 740 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: It's kind of like asking Gnoam Chomsky or Howard Zen 741 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 1: to name their favorite reality TV program. They're gonna say, 742 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: what is I do? 743 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 2: Regular reality? 744 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,879 Speaker 3: Weirdly, though, you know what I saw the other day, 745 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 3: Noam Chomsky has one of those masterclass things. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 746 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 3: and he looks he looks like a deer in headlights 747 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 3: where he's clearly doing the part that's just designed for 748 00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 3: the promo, where he's really I will talk about the 749 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 3: most pressing issues facing America today and then the other 750 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 3: parts he's clearly just riffing like he does and it 751 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,439 Speaker 3: looks very natural. But yeah, I was still a little 752 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 3: taken aback by it. I'm not gonna lie. 753 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's trying to get the message out there, you 754 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, and that's what he's advocating for. 755 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: Plus he is ninety four years old, Chomsky. He is 756 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: eighty nine years old. Ok, so spry as ever imperially slim. 757 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for helping fewer people die in car accidents, and 758 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: thanks for making the consumer movement. You may not agree 759 00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: with the guy's politics necessarily, but I think we can 760 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: all agree that saving lives is a good thing to do. 761 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,399 Speaker 2: I bet it doesn't even have a smartphone. No, why 762 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,840 Speaker 2: would he have a smartphone? That guy's landline all. I 763 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 2: bet he has like rotary doll. 764 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,839 Speaker 1: Oh, he might have like a Nokia the indestructible flip phone. Sure, 765 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,479 Speaker 1: he's got like three numbers brick. 766 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 767 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 3: I think he listens to podcasts now does doesn't have 768 00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 3: time too much to occupying all. 769 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 2: Of his waking hours. 770 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 1: If we print out a transcript and mail it to him, yeah, 771 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: it'd be interesting to see what he says. 772 00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 2: That would be cool. I think you consumer fans of We. 773 00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: Are fans of Ralph Nader for saving lives, and we 774 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: are also fans of ridiculous historical stories. I gotta say too, 775 00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: I've driven Chevrolet's I love Monte Carlos. They were just 776 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,439 Speaker 1: in the wrong on this one. 777 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah. 778 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,719 Speaker 1: And with this, we're going to hit the road with 779 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,600 Speaker 1: our safety belts on. Thanks Ralph and all three points, 780 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,320 Speaker 1: all three points shout out Nills Bulin, and we can't 781 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: wait for a very special episode we have coming out later. 782 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,280 Speaker 1: We have a lot of tangents in trivia and things 783 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: that don't quite make it into episodes when we're recording. 784 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 1: So we are going to do our first ever clip show. 785 00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: I think we can called it clip Yeah, it's yeah, it's. 786 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,720 Speaker 2: It'll be a clip show of a type. 787 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think the way I've described it off aras 788 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: it'll be a Matroshka doll of segues. So do tune 789 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 1: in for that. Thanks as always to our super producer 790 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,800 Speaker 1: mister Max Williams, Thanks to our research associate doctor z. 791 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,120 Speaker 1: Thanks to our special off air guest Alex Alex are 792 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: you over there? 793 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:57,959 Speaker 2: Hey? All right? 794 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: Hello tech doing a live show, And of course thanks 795 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: to our own pal Jonathan Strickland aka the Quist who else? 796 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:06,359 Speaker 2: Oh man? 797 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,919 Speaker 3: Alex Williams whose are you very much a Ralph Nader 798 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,360 Speaker 3: esque type figure, at least in his nomadic existence. He 799 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 3: loves organic he does love organic ice cream and hitching 800 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 3: hitching a ride here good thanks. 801 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:19,600 Speaker 2: To Chris frosciotis here in spirit. 802 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 3: He's Jeff Coates doing all kinds of crazy yoga poses 803 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,160 Speaker 3: out in the world. 804 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: Just how her new book come out. 805 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 2: That's incredible. 806 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, congrats and thanks to you, Ben, Thanks to you 807 00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 3: a little bit of a Ralph Nader ask figure yourself. 808 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:40,319 Speaker 2: Zoom zoom zoom. We'll see you next time, folks. 809 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,120 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 810 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.