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Speaker 1: Breakingly good. On this episode of the Taking a Walk

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Speaker 1: podcast series, I'm in beautiful Litchfield County, Connecticut, the northwestern

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Speaker 1: part of the state where I spent many years an

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Speaker 1: eye popping area. I'm delighted and honored to be taking

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Speaker 1: a walk with a music industry visionary, a man who

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Speaker 1: has carved his own independent path with a steady eye

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Speaker 1: on cultivating his artists collaborating with them to yield peak performance.

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Speaker 1: Alan Kovak is the founder of indie label Better Noise

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Speaker 1: Music and film division Better Noise Films, which produced the

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Speaker 1: wildly successful film about Motley Crue on Netflix called The Dirt.

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Speaker 1: He's managed a range of artists including Blondie, The Cranberries,

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Speaker 1: The Beg's, and Motley Crue. Let's go take a walk

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Speaker 1: with Alan Kovacs taking a walk with Buzznight. Well, Alan,

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Speaker 1: it's so great to be taking a walk with you

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Speaker 1: here in the beautiful hills of Litchfield County. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for having me here. Well, it's wonderful to reconnect with

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Speaker 1: someone after twenty five plus years who had a great

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Speaker 1: deal of reverence for in the broadcasting business at a

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Speaker 1: time where people were dogmatic and narrow minded. You always

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Speaker 1: had an open mind to change and different concepts, and

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Speaker 1: that made me really want to do this. Well, thank you,

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Speaker 1: You're very kind to say it. I've admired your work

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Speaker 1: and what you've built and what you continued to build.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really looking forward to this episode. We got

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Speaker 1: some bicicle that's coming by hight Hi. There that's the

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Speaker 1: beauty here of the series. We just let everything fly,

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Speaker 1: We let our thoughts fly, we let the past is

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Speaker 1: by stay in there, and we're walking down this beautiful path. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me just ask you first. So taking a walk

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Speaker 1: is certainly there's a mindfulness, there's a health aspect of it.

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Speaker 1: How do you use as a leader taking a walk

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Speaker 1: to you know, help you at moments if you're creatively

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Speaker 1: blocked or something like that. Sound as lucky as a

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Speaker 1: teenager going to college at the University of Oregon where

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Speaker 1: the Maharush mesh Yogi showed up after he was working

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Speaker 1: with the Beatles, and every college kid had to go

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Speaker 1: to learn transcendental meditation from this gentleman. And it took

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Speaker 1: me down a path of running and taking walks in Oregon,

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Speaker 1: hikes that were up mountains and down mountains, and you know,

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Speaker 1: just looking at scenerally like those rocks. So mindfulness to

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Speaker 1: me is having the wind hit your face and you

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Speaker 1: actually feel it and you think about how it feels,

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Speaker 1: and you see the different shades of light in a field,

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Speaker 1: or you look at different shadows, smells your feet on

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Speaker 1: the ground. And what that does is it takes that

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Speaker 1: mind that's on ten and it slows it down and

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Speaker 1: it gives you a clarity that rivals meditation. But it's

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Speaker 1: different because it's your senses. Meditation is similar, and it's

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Speaker 1: important to me every morning and every night because that

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Speaker 1: unwinds your mind. When you get started. You're not running

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Speaker 1: to the coffee machine. So I'm a green tea guy now, okay,

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Speaker 1: So for me, eat and right exercising. Mindfulness and meditation

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Speaker 1: allow a highly stressful business with crazy people not to

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Speaker 1: engulf your life when you decide you're finished working and

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Speaker 1: you want to be a real human being. Oh I

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Speaker 1: love that. Well. I have to tell you yesterday I

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Speaker 1: was for the first time in a long time, I

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Speaker 1: was at Grand Central station and rush hour and I

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Speaker 1: was watching everybody and it made me grateful that I'm

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Speaker 1: not one of those people every day hopping on the train,

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Speaker 1: running you know to catch it, but it also made

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Speaker 1: me sad thinking about just that stress level that you

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Speaker 1: could feel at that time with people. So it's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I look at the world today and

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Speaker 1: it's challenging times very challenging, especially if you're twenty five

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Speaker 1: to thirty five and you're used to the social aspect

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Speaker 1: of a company and now you're in your shared apartment

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Speaker 1: or your studio apartment or even your apartment. It could

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Speaker 1: be a big one, but they're missing the social aspect.

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Speaker 1: So that's where you have the mass resignation that you're having,

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Speaker 1: women who need to focus on childcare and twenty five

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Speaker 1: to thirty five year olds. Fortunately for us, we've been

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Speaker 1: able to be sensitive but also guide them if they're

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Speaker 1: not happy to realize that we have seven offices around

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Speaker 1: the world and signing new file your leases is something

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Speaker 1: that is a timing issue. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: we did during COVID is we use the money that

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Speaker 1: we weren't spending on offices to bonus folks to help

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Speaker 1: them set up their apartments or homes and to be

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Speaker 1: able to make the transition. If they want the office,

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Speaker 1: they can find a job. And the one thing that

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Speaker 1: I'm happy about is Joe McFadden's work with me for

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Speaker 1: thirty years in different capacities, and Steve Klein's work with

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Speaker 1: me for almost twenty years now, and my CFO is amazing.

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Speaker 1: And I just love mentoring getting people to the point

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Speaker 1: where some of my ex employees work at Spotify or Apple,

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Speaker 1: or they work at Facebook and they learn the expertise

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Speaker 1: at our company, and now there relationships that help us

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Speaker 1: with all those companies. So for me, work's always been

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Speaker 1: about enjoying it and teaching and learning. You don't know

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Speaker 1: anything unless you ask questions, and that's one of the

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Speaker 1: hardest things for folks to do, because they become experts

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Speaker 1: in silos. And what I try to teach the young

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Speaker 1: folks is become a generalist because then you know how

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Speaker 1: the company works, and then one day you'll be an executive.

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Speaker 1: If you choose not to be an executive, what you

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Speaker 1: could do is be a better expert because you know

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Speaker 1: how each department will have your content or your ideas

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Speaker 1: and how they would process it and use it. So

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Speaker 1: who shaped you as a leader in your earliest days

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Speaker 1: and then who is still influencing you in leadership these days?

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Speaker 1: So I would say my mom. My dad died when

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Speaker 1: I was fifteen, and he was very ill. When I

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Speaker 1: was fourteen. I got a driver's license at fourteen, which

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Speaker 1: meant I'd become very popular with women or girls at

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Speaker 1: the time, and I was president of student council, did

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Speaker 1: very well in school, played football, ran track. It's Texas

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Speaker 1: and growing up in Texas with a mom that didn't drive.

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Speaker 1: Mother and father who were in the Holocaust and fought

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Speaker 1: in two wars in Israel and ended up with four

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Speaker 1: boys and bailed when I was three and a half

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Speaker 1: four years old. All of a sudden, we were in

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Speaker 1: John Bird Society Land. There was no NASA, there was

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Speaker 1: no medical center. And you learn from that kind of

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Speaker 1: adversity what's important in life. And I was blessed with

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Speaker 1: a mom that could focus me, and that's really what

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Speaker 1: led to me going to the University of Oregon instead

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Speaker 1: of an Ivy League school. She said to me, please

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Speaker 1: do what you'd like to do, but you've got to

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Speaker 1: have a profession. And I started laughing because for her,

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Speaker 1: she had a son that was excelling and to go

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Speaker 1: to an IVY League school would have propelled me as

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Speaker 1: a professional. And she told me that a lot, but

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Speaker 1: she also said, but if that takes away from what

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Speaker 1: is going to keep you happy, make yourself happy. So

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Speaker 1: I went to the University of Oregon and a professor

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Speaker 1: who was in Houston with my best friend. It was

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Speaker 1: his father, and he really took a liking to me

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Speaker 1: and gave me a book by a guy named Forrest Greeley.

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Speaker 1: He was the first national Forrester. He created it. And

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Speaker 1: I read the book and I just fell in love

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Speaker 1: with Oregon on a whim. Went with my friend Kevin

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Speaker 1: to Oregon and was very fortunate when I was in

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Speaker 1: Oregon because I had a few skills from jobs I

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Speaker 1: had to take on because my mom didn't drive. My

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Speaker 1: brother and I both took jobs, and I was putting

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Speaker 1: up posters for a concert company. I saw this book

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Speaker 1: called Talent and Booking, and I saw Peter Frampton on

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Speaker 1: the cover and said, Wow, you've got to stop booking

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Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra and Edie Gourmey and Sammy Davis Junior. You

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Speaker 1: got to book what we have at high school? And

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Speaker 1: he goes, what do you have at high school? And

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Speaker 1: I said, you know albums that are from Led Zeppelin

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Speaker 1: and The Who, the Stones and he said, does everyone

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Speaker 1: like that? Everyone? I know? So he books His first

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Speaker 1: one he could get was the Jefferson Airplay for He

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Speaker 1: did it with PACIFICA, which was a public access company

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Speaker 1: at the time b A, I right, yes, and other places.

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Speaker 1: He ultimately books Led Zeppelin and The Who. I got

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Speaker 1: a raise because my mom told me not to tell

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Speaker 1: him another act unless he gives me a real job.

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Speaker 1: And you know, at fifteen, fourteen years old, I was

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Speaker 1: making one hundred and twenty five dollars a week. She'd

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Speaker 1: give me five bucks and she kept the rest. Did

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Speaker 1: the same thing with my brother. So then when I

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Speaker 1: went to Oregon, I noticed there were no concerts between

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Speaker 1: Portland and San Francisco, and I took a flyer and

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Speaker 1: spent twelve hundred and fifty dollars on Tom Petty and

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Speaker 1: sold it out. Met a guy named Stan Garrett from

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Speaker 1: kaz L Radio who recently passed. I was lucky enough

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Speaker 1: to at least speak with him. I hadn't spoken to

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Speaker 1: him for forty plus years. Wow, And it was just

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Speaker 1: great to reconnect with someone who taught me so much

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Speaker 1: about record companies and retailers and broadcasters. And he was

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Speaker 1: just one of the early early FM radio pioneers coming

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Speaker 1: out of San Francisco, kind of knowledge base. Sure, so

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Speaker 1: he was quite helpful. And one day I'd gotten a

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Speaker 1: triumph spitfire, drove down to LA started meeting agents and

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Speaker 1: saying to them, University of Oregon, Oregon state, sixty five

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Speaker 1: thousand kids with nothing to do, and you have a

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Speaker 1: day off. I'm positive you don't want to do that.

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Speaker 1: You have to do that, And long story short, they did.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, I'm getting yelled at

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Speaker 1: by guys like Bill Graham and Frank Barcelona, and they're

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Speaker 1: yelling at me because I listened to my mom. She

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Speaker 1: basically taught me early on, if you don't believe it,

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Speaker 1: tell them and then you'll learn or they will. But

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Speaker 1: if you just keep it inside, you're going to get

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Speaker 1: very frustrated. And back then everyone was a shouterer. These

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Speaker 1: guys love the scream and yell, and that flightened me

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Speaker 1: at the beginning. But then I learned how to yell back,

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Speaker 1: and that made me really happy because being a twenty

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Speaker 1: year old and getting yelled at by a legend, or

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Speaker 1: getting yelled at by a guy who controls everything from

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Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen to talking Heads, and on it goes, and

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Speaker 1: you're getting yelled at, and most of it is an

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Speaker 1: old boys network at the time. Sure, they wanted me

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Speaker 1: to split the shows with more promoters, and I refuse.

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Speaker 1: And I was lucky enough to be able to have

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Speaker 1: a very sizable concert company out of Eugene at an

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Speaker 1: early age where I had to learn how to eat

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Speaker 1: what I killed, talk to adults, be responsible about p

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Speaker 1: and L because there was no one to back me.

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Speaker 1: The original money for Tom Petty was money I made

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Speaker 1: in Eugene. Wow, And I saved it up, just reinvested

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Speaker 1: it for a show, and all of a sudden, I've

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Speaker 1: got more. So I'm booking Patti Smith, Talking Heads, Dizzy Gillespie,

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Speaker 1: Woody Shaw. So when you're in a small market, you

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Speaker 1: got to broaden the talent you're bringing in or you're

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Speaker 1: going to oversaturate it with one genre. So I got

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Speaker 1: to meet Muddy Water, meet Tom Petty, see them at

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Speaker 1: an early stage, see them at a late stage, learn

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Speaker 1: a lot about the industry. And they were all these

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Speaker 1: great artist development guys at record companies. Rick dobbas Al teller.

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Speaker 1: I was a young guy, and they would introduce me

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Speaker 1: to Crystal Ship records and you know stand but do

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Speaker 1: you know the other radio station, right? And they wanted

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Speaker 1: me to bring their acts in. They wanted the college kids.

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Speaker 1: So they taught me a lot. And ultimately, after building

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Speaker 1: that company, I sold it and noticed that managers just

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Speaker 1: were friends of the act. They didn't have an expertise.

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Speaker 1: They couldn't sell a ticket, they didn't understand how price

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Speaker 1: and positioning worked, or what a programmer needed to feel

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Speaker 1: confident about playing a song. And I said, wow, if

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Speaker 1: I create an infrastructure, publicity, sales, radio promotion, I could

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Speaker 1: just own the management business, right. And then within seven

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Speaker 1: years I had the biggest management company in the world,

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Speaker 1: working with first Jazz, Jeff Lorb Perfusion, Dan Siegel, and

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Speaker 1: Tom Grant. That's all I could get. And they were

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Speaker 1: from Eugene or Portland. With Jeff Lauri Perfusion was a

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Speaker 1: guy by the name of maybe Steve Leeds possibly working

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Speaker 1: that one for you, Yeah, possibly, Steve and I have

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Speaker 1: always remained close. I talked to his kids at the

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Speaker 1: college he teaches at, Sure something I really love doing.

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Speaker 1: I've NYU Ucla, Syracuse. I just love of kids coming

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Speaker 1: in with this big aura of music and then pop

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Speaker 1: in their bubble. I want to stop here real quick, Gallan,

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Speaker 1: because sometimes people listening to taking a walk, they go, well,

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Speaker 1: what was that noise in the background. They start wondering

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Speaker 1: whether it's you know, Theater of the Mind sound effects,

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Speaker 1: And we're listening to the beautiful sound here of this

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Speaker 1: this gorgeous river, and I just had to acknowledge that

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Speaker 1: it's real. It's not sound effects put in here by

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Speaker 1: some cheesy sound effects record. Oh so that's your past life,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, exactly. Well listen, I mean when you grew

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Speaker 1: up listening to people like Bob and Ray and the

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Speaker 1: Theater of the Mind that they used to use. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're influenced of your meat by that a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And you know, morning radio was part of my past

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Speaker 1: as well. So yeah, we had all those tricks. So

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Speaker 1: one of the other guys that really help helped me

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Speaker 1: out in la is when I had a Dan SEAgel

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Speaker 1: record out and I went into a marketing meeting. There

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Speaker 1: was an A and R guy named Kenny Batis, and

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Speaker 1: a radio promo guy named Bert Stein, and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of other guys in the other areas of the company,

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Speaker 1: and they had a one page for paragraph marketing plan.

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Speaker 1: So I look at that and I hand everyone a

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Speaker 1: twenty four page marketing plan and it's integrated marketing that

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Speaker 1: they knew nothing about and cross promotion with partners right

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Speaker 1: like you know how everyone does features today. So I've

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Speaker 1: got Lee Rittenhauer on a Dan Siegel record to help

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Speaker 1: put a thumb on the scale to motivate them. Lee

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Speaker 1: Writtenauer was a big guitar player in jazz at the time,

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Speaker 1: Chick Corea and Jeff Lorber. So the idea was to

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Speaker 1: come in with that infrastructure of people that were working

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Speaker 1: with me and elevate the performance of the record companies.

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Speaker 1: So as Jeff Lurber gets a gold record, you know,

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Speaker 1: Jazz gold, what all of a sudden, I'm getting a

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Speaker 1: call from the Dazz band and now I'm managing an

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Speaker 1: R and B artist. Dazz Band leads me to meatboof Meatloaf,

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Speaker 1: leads me to the Beg's BIG's lead me to Duran,

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Speaker 1: Duran all word of mouth. This guy's got something no

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Speaker 1: one else has. And Joe Smith, early in that process

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Speaker 1: with Dan Siegel, said to me, I want to take

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Speaker 1: you to lunch. This is amazing. Can you go right now? Now?

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Speaker 1: I'm in a t shirt, jeans, and sneakers, and he

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Speaker 1: takes me to the dome. Everyone's wearing cufflings and a

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Speaker 1: tie in the section he's going and they give me

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Speaker 1: the little boys jacket and I'm like so embarrassed, and

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Speaker 1: he saying, don't be embarrassed. You're gonna be a big

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Speaker 1: time player. And I said, how do you know I'm

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Speaker 1: going to be a big time player? He said, let

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Speaker 1: me tell you something. I've been in a lot of

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Speaker 1: marketing meetings. I've never seen someone come in with a

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Speaker 1: marketing plan like that. So I'm gonna give you two

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Speaker 1: bits of advice. First, I'm gonna order some wine. And

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Speaker 1: he gets a Chateau Margo Margo in nineteen eighty five

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Speaker 1: or six sixty two, more money than I spent on

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Speaker 1: Tom Petty. And he starts teaching me about wine and

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Speaker 1: he said, look, you're going to be a great manager.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to tell you how this works. Don't

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Speaker 1: hang out with your bands. Do what you're doing. These

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Speaker 1: guys that hang out they're miserable. And I said, okay.

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Speaker 1: He said, now when you do go see them. Go

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Speaker 1: see a show at the beginning of the tour, and

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Speaker 1: after always go where there's a vineyard, meet the wine makers.

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Speaker 1: So he created a passion for me with wine. But

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Speaker 1: he also gave me the reason I think I'm successful

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Speaker 1: today relatively bough I'm not a billionaire like these guys

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Speaker 1: all want to be billionaires. I never had dreams of

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Speaker 1: doing that. My bream was never have a job and

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Speaker 1: try not to be stressed out. So long story short,

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Speaker 1: we drink the wine. I've never had a glass of

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Speaker 1: wine at one o'clock in the afternoon before, but I

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Speaker 1: was having a glass so on one o'clock with the

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Speaker 1: CEO of Elector Records, and he said, all right, here's

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Speaker 1: your next bit of advice. Carry this with you. If

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Speaker 1: you're going to stay in the music business, be independent.

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Speaker 1: Stay away from the big lawyers, stay away from the

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Speaker 1: big business managers, agents, find the people who believe in

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Speaker 1: what you're doing, and stay away from these other guys.

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Speaker 1: I go, why would I do that. These guys are

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Speaker 1: the guys that run the music business. He said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and here's what they do. And he had Geffen and

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Speaker 1: Azoff at the time at Electric Records and couldn't stand

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Speaker 1: them because they all had to fight about something, either

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Speaker 1: the Eagles or Fleetwood, Mac something. They were always fighting.

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Speaker 1: So he was very resentful that day, and he names

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Speaker 1: them very clearly. To me, he said, stay away from them,

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Speaker 1: stay away from Branca and Grubman use names, and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this guy's really upset. So anyway, long

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Speaker 1: story short, I've remained independent my whole career based on

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Speaker 1: that advice, and his the succinct advice was they all

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Speaker 1: know each other, your Rosa parks. You're in the back

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Speaker 1: of the bus. You got here in the eighties, they've

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Speaker 1: been here since the sixties. Their relationships become poison and gossip,

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Speaker 1: and the only thing they care about is making the

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Speaker 1: artists in secure so they can take them from you.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like listening to that, and it still happens today.

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Speaker 1: The lawyers business managers love control, but they don't know

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Speaker 1: anything about the industry. Right they're supposed to be reading

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Speaker 1: and counting, Well, they can't read or county. They are agents.

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Speaker 1: They think they know more than the managers, and rightfully

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Speaker 1: so in many cases, but they really hate when they're

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Speaker 1: not in control. So he was so right, and I've

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Speaker 1: been able to work with the same lawyers and business

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Speaker 1: managers and feel great about working with a guy like

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Speaker 1: Dennis Arfa for thirty five years working with Tim Mandelbaum,

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Speaker 1: who I met with Richard Marx in nineteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 1: And you know, to have those kind of business relationships

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Speaker 1: without gossip and bs, but focus on what you can

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Speaker 1: do for the artists gives me an edge because I'm

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Speaker 1: not spending my time with drama. I'm spending my time

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Speaker 1: with like minded people. I love it. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I know Steve Klein and have great respect for Steve

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Speaker 1: your coeo right, yes, yeah, And he's always had this

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Speaker 1: calm attitude about things where there's so many people you

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Speaker 1: know in the business that you know make you edgy

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Speaker 1: and nervous just when they walk into the room. So

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Speaker 1: I think you carry that on and pass that on,

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Speaker 1: you know, to guys like Steve for sure, and you

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Speaker 1: know other folks in your organization. But you really look

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Speaker 1: at Better Noise as really a content company, right really

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Speaker 1: when you come down to it, exactly. So, the industry

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00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: has been affected by finance and money and quarterly billing

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Speaker 1: puts a lot of pressure on companies. So in the

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Speaker 1: nineties late eighties, you started to see PolyGram aggregate independent labels.

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Speaker 1: You saw MCA become universal and aggregate, and on it

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Speaker 1: went owners with Sire. So now, well, you're in a

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00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: business where people have to manufacture music to hit quarters.

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00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: Songwriters are more important, producers are more important, and artists

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Speaker 1: are just dangling around waiting for the label to give

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Speaker 1: them the song. And that's why you see a dearth

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Speaker 1: of talent on that stage. You see a lot of dancers,

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00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: you see a lot of visual but just listen to

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Speaker 1: the person with the mic and think about all the

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Speaker 1: great stars and then look at how many average artists

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Speaker 1: there are. But they made quarters with a song. So

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Speaker 1: I saw that the record companies weren't involved enough with film, television,

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Speaker 1: rock and alternative music. They've turned alternative into pop. Now

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Speaker 1: it's hard for me. You have to hire a private investigator.

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Speaker 1: Tell me if they're pop artists or their alternative artist.

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Speaker 1: When I grew up alternative met Patty Smith or talking heads.

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Speaker 1: I'm listening to this stuff and I'm going manufactured pop.

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Speaker 1: So I saw a dearth in that space of rock

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Speaker 1: music and said to my band, hey, Papa Roach, you

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00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: are an interscope. You had a number one single, and

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Speaker 1: they wanted their resources at alternative and rock and they

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00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: wanted their resources for another act, so you went, bye bye,

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Speaker 1: how about we do it with you? And then you

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Speaker 1: know you're going to get back on track. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: we had with that band five albums, twenty top ten singles,

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Speaker 1: and their career was reignited. And then all of a

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00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 1: sudden and everyone was calling us, not just the bands

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Speaker 1: that we manage, but outside and now we're a number

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Speaker 1: one rock label in the world with offices in London, Paris, Berlin, Sydney, Toronto,

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Speaker 1: LA and New York. And we start out with three people, me,

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Speaker 1: Steve and a label manager. Wow, we now have over

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Speaker 1: one hundred. So you know, I'm very happy about the

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00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: concept of being able to have and visualize something and

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00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: work backwards from your endgame. So the endgame was to

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Speaker 1: bring rock back as an important genre. And when you

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Speaker 1: get a band like five Finger Death Punch that gets

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Speaker 1: Platinum records in twenty twenty two doing metal hard rock,

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Speaker 1: and you can get a band from Mongolia called The

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00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: Who and they're going to go gold, and you're saying

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Speaker 1: to yourself, Wow, I'm going to have an act for

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00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: the next twenty years. This isn't manufactured. This makes me happy,

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00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: and it shows younger people that you can be patient.

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Speaker 1: We call ourselves the Artist Development Company because we use ticketing,

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Speaker 1: we use social media, YouTube. Before we go to streaming,

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00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 1: we gather the data. Then we send that to the

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Speaker 1: streaming services. We don't push them for a playlist. We

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Speaker 1: have them tell us once we've seen that. We go

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Speaker 1: to radio. And if you talk to Brian Phillips or

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Speaker 1: Troy Cumulus, or you talk to brad At iHeart, the

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Speaker 1: one thing they'll tell you is Alan Coovat won't go

399
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: for a record that doesn't have engagement. If the audience

400
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: doesn't like it, he won't keep going. He doesn't push

401
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,959
Speaker 1: us into playing it, doesn't pay the indies for overnight spins.

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00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: He won't play the game. Now, I wish I could

403
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: say labels who've learned that with us. Right now we

404
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: have three records in the top ten. By July we'll

405
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: have four or five. We've always had three to five

406
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: records in the top ten, and we do it strictly

407
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: with data. I refuse to let my folks hype me,

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00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: the artists or themselves. And that's something I'm lucky enough

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00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: to have gotten into. I told you earlier. My mom

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00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: always told me to ask questions and learn. So I

411
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: met this guy named Kurt Hansen who did research for

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00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: radio and MTV and VH one, and I can't remember

413
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: the name of the woman who worked with him, but

414
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: I went to their offices in Chicago and I said,

415
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,239
Speaker 1: show me how this works, and they showed me, and

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00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, so you can actually find out what

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00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: the audience wants, not just what you think. And they said, yes,

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00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: the radio audience is what we find. And then he

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00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: showed me marbles in a pool and the basics of research,

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00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: and I started using that and radio. That's how I

421
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: met you. That's how I met a lot of programmers,

422
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: was through talking to them about my records from the

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00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: point of view of your research, not mine, not my height,

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00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: not my enthusiasm, but this is your audience and it's working.

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00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: So that led me to Keith Reinhart at dB Ninham.

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00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: He's the guy that put the baby in the tire. Okay.

427
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: He knew how to send branding messages through visual and

428
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: whether it was Ronald McDonald so that teenagers weren't just

429
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: at McDonald's, but the moms brought the whole family and

430
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: the kids. He was a genius and he has a

431
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: book at Wharton and all the business schools that people read.

432
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: But I was so lucky to have aoint venture with him,

433
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: and we bought all the media for the music business

434
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: for about three years. And then I said, wait a minute,

435
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: I want to compete with these guys. Why am I

436
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 1: doing this for them? So I called up Keith. I said,

437
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to do this anymore as well.

438
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: It's a fraction of my business. But you know, I

439
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: do like it. You know, you're enthusiastic. You got an

440
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: office here, you bring us ideas in the entertainment space.

441
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: I said, I know, but I want to go back

442
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: to LA and immediately I started restructuring the company. So

443
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: we do something that he taught us called an ROI Relevance,

444
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: originality and impact. And what that teaches you is how

445
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: to look at the data, how to describe where you

446
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: want to go, and then how you're going to get

447
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: there with the answers to the question. And ultimately you

448
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: have a phrase for branding, and that branding statements a

449
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: call to action for the audience. So those are the

450
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: men and many women have helped me as well, my mom,

451
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 1: but also women in the business affair side of music

452
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: have been extremely helpful to me because they give me

453
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: a different point of view. They showed me how they

454
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 1: had to perform their job and what their company needed

455
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: from the standpoint of a recording contract, and I was

456
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: able to from that learn how to get Motley Crue

457
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: their master's back the BGS Saturday Night Fever. So I

458
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: was one of the few managers they got rights back

459
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: for artists because of these wonderful women. I'm not going

460
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: to name them because I don't want their bosses to

461
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 1: get rid of them, but let's put it this way.

462
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: They were so good to me with their time, and

463
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 1: they found it intriguing that I was interested. And then

464
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: even when we were on opposite sides, they had more

465
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: emotional intelligence than the men. The men would be you know,

466
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: you're not loyal, You're an asshole, screaming, yelling. The women

467
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: would say, well, unfortunately, we can't do that. And then

468
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: I used the experience I had from them to realize

469
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: all I had to do is wait for a quarter,

470
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: and if I waited for the right moment, I could

471
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,920
Speaker 1: dangle them some product and they'd rather do what was

472
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: best for them and their bonus than what was good

473
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: for the company, and I used that kind of avarice

474
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 1: to do a lot of things that people weren't doing

475
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:04,879
Speaker 1: at the time. So the heart and soul of your

476
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: company is something that I want to talk about, and

477
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: specifically around some of the work going on. As an example,

478
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: snow Babies, that project, the project certainly with Nicky six

479
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: and the Heroin Diaries, which we want to talk about

480
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: as well. The heart and soul of doing something, you know,

481
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: to help people and have a voice. Talk to me

482
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: how that has evolved and why that's important to you. Well,

483
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: it's important to me because fans and people in the

484
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 1: industry don't realize what a terrible job it is to

485
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: be an artist. The anxiety of not knowing whether someone's

486
00:36:54,520 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: going to buy a ticket or your music or your tea,

487
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: not knowing if your song is going to be liked

488
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: by the record company, Being in a bus or a

489
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: van doing a show. You're playing for an hour two hours.

490
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 1: You got to get in the bus after your adrenaline's

491
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: going and your endorphins are rolling, and it's already midnight,

492
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: so you're not going to get much sleep. And they

493
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: go to alcohol and they go to barbituates. But then

494
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: they have to get up and do an interview for

495
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: radio station, and that's it. Seven in the morning. They

496
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,839
Speaker 1: got to get up at six, but they've only had

497
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: three hours sleep. And then they do the interview, they

498
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: do the acoustic show, and they all wired again, and

499
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: they have to go back to sleep and they try,

500
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: but they can't broken sleep if they're getting any at all.

501
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: And then it's time to go to the venue. There's

502
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: load in and their soundcheck, and then there's the meet

503
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 1: and greet and then they're back on stage. Now, if

504
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: you're doing that five six times a week, it's going

505
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: to really affect you. And for whatever reason, the lack

506
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: of empathy for these folks who work hard. People say

507
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: that I work hard. I don't work hard. They do.

508
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: And that caused me to be active in the music

509
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: community about addiction helping artists. I've never had an artists

510
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: die on my watch. I'll get rid of an artist

511
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: if they don't want to get help, so they can't

512
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: get help. And that's worked for me. A lot of

513
00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: managers that like their artist on the road. The way

514
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: we do it is an artist can only play so

515
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 1: many shows, and then they got to have a long break,

516
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:13,360
Speaker 1: and that is counter to maximizing your income. But you

517
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: can manage Blondie for thirty years or Motley Crue. If

518
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: you do it that way, you can manage an act

519
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: for a few years in the short term and have

520
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: a Kurt Cobain, whoever that management company was, they knew

521
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: he was an heroin addict. They knew that he had issues,

522
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 1: and whether it was the record company or the radio

523
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 1: station or the in store, no one cared. They cared

524
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 1: about themselves. So I wanted to get the word out

525
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: and I did it with multiple artists, watched them get

526
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 1: well and started getting them active in that community to

527
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 1: get back and help. So a guy like Nikki six

528
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: it's a book called The Heroin Diaries, creates a band

529
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: called six Am, it's a soundtrack to it, and he

530
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:11,800
Speaker 1: puts himself in a position where he's willing to show

531
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: his flaws and talk about what he did to help himself.

532
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: And to me, that's so important because you get a

533
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: sixty six year old guy like me talking to you,

534
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: that's one thing, but when Nicky talks to you, it's

535
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: a whole different thing. For an artist. When Debbie Harry

536
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: talks to you. It's a different conversation and the more

537
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 1: artists we can do that with, the better it will

538
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: be for the artist community. Well. And you know, one

539
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: of the things too that you've talked about is, you know,

540
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: when you sign on with somebody and where they sign

541
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 1: on with you, you really don't want to, you know,

542
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: I guess be their friend. You just want to be

543
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: the straight voice of reason and guide them, help them

544
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: and collaborate with them. But I watched the interview that

545
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: you did with Nicki talking specifically about the heroin Diaries,

546
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:16,359
Speaker 1: and my observation is you are extremely proud of him

547
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: for what he's doing, what he's done, his honesty, and

548
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: the voice that he's trying to give. So the relationship

549
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 1: seems like it's now a different relationship. Is that fair

550
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: to say? I'd say it is, but I still and

551
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: Nicky knows this. He always says to me, I know

552
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 1: I'm not your friend, but I'm the closest thing you

553
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: got to one as an artist, so he understands that distinction.

554
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: Only two artists have ever been to my home up

555
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: here in Littfield, Nicki six and Debbie Harry. She bought

556
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 1: a place up here, and I love seeing her at

557
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 1: seventy six have the past and the focus of her art,

558
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: but also being able to get out here in her

559
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: place in New Jersey. You know, mindfulness and the ability

560
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: to clear your mind allows a seventy six year old

561
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: to go sell out concerts in the UK last week,

562
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: and I'm proud of her. I'm proud of NICKI that

563
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: said you can count your friends on one hand. Who's

564
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: going to be there when you have a baby? For instance, Well,

565
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 1: we had community here and I was not working for

566
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 1: three weeks, waking up in the middle of the night.

567
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: But then I had to go on a trip and

568
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: my wife had a different woman cook dinner, help her

569
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: out every day I was gone. That can't happen in

570
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: New York or LA. So being in community is more

571
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: important to me than counting how many contacts friends I have.

572
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: And that's hard for some people. Some artists feel I'm

573
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 1: a snob. They've even told me, what kind of snob

574
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,200
Speaker 1: are you? You're my friend, I'm not. I'm the guy

575
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: that tells you what you need to hear, not what

576
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: you want to hear, and that pushes them back a

577
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: little bit, but ultimately you get a degree of reverence

578
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 1: no matter how much they want to fight about that.

579
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: There's a degree of reference when you separate your business

580
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: life from your social life, and it's really worked for me.

581
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: Some people can't, can't tutter from the friendship, and I

582
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: do well. They always know where they stand, so they

583
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: know you're going to shoot them straight. And at its core,

584
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:51,319
Speaker 1: that's what anybody ever wants, right, they want to know

585
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: the real deal. So you would hope, Yeah, not everybody,

586
00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: You're right, you would hope. So the Heroin Diaries and

587
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: the creation of it to be a musical is certainly

588
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 1: one of the most ambitious projects and tremendous projects at

589
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: its core. How is all of that going? What's the

590
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: status of it and the build out of it? Because

591
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: it's a tremendous, a tremendous project, well, believe it or not.

592
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: I was on a boat going to see Richard Branson.

593
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,919
Speaker 1: He gave me an award and he suckered me in.

594
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: I don't do those things, and he somehow decides that

595
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: my wife's English and if he could be the guy

596
00:44:53,840 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 1: that gave me the award, then I'd show up and

597
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: I passed. So I remember when the Association of Independent

598
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: Music Labels called me up and said, do you want

599
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 1: this award? No, I'm happy. This was the Innovation Award, right, yeah,

600
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: I'm an innovator. So he he was funny. He decides

601
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: that he's going to put his thumb on the scale

602
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 1: and my wife and her parents, how could you not come? Well,

603
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: I've never accepted any of these. Even when I got

604
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 1: an Emmy for the Meatloaf documentary, I had someone pick

605
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,839
Speaker 1: it up. You know that's the United States, and they said, no, no,

606
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: you have to come. So I came expecting to see

607
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: Richard again, which was more important to me than the award.

608
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: And I had done Bad out of Hell with him

609
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: Bat Too. And I remember his company said, Wow, this

610
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,719
Speaker 1: guy hasn't had a hit in fifteen years, and he's

611
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: had four or five records that sold one hundred and

612
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: fifty thousand, and you're coming in with this marketing plan.

613
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,919
Speaker 1: And there's a guy named Paul Conroy who worked for Richard,

614
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: and he looks at everyone in the room. He goes,

615
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: we have we ever brought retail and radio and the industry,

616
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: press and everyone into a theater. He's named it Bat Too.

617
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: He wants all these people in a room and he's

618
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 1: got Jim Steinman, that's going to introduce Meatloaf to say

619
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: they're back together, and bat that held too is as

620
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: good as bat one. Listen to it, and if you agree,

621
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 1: help us. He goes, when have we ever done that?

622
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, Richard Branson is the man

623
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: who sells twenty five million records and sells his company

624
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 1: a few years later, makes a lot of money, and

625
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 1: he's a real innovator and knows how to create and

626
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: run businesses, something I couldn't do. I don't know how

627
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: he does it on the scale that he does it,

628
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: but he lives on two islands and somehow manages it.

629
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,440
Speaker 1: So being Richard Branson isn't that bad. But what he

630
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: did that was really funky was he sends a video.

631
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: He's in flipflops, shorts and a T shirt, and he

632
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: goes on and on about my career. And then I

633
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 1: find out he wants to see me at Necker, So

634
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: I go to Necker and COVID happens. So he had

635
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: come back from Italy and him and his wife were

636
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: at best contemplating whether they had COVID, and a worse

637
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: assumed they had COVID, And he said you got to

638
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: get out of here. And I've never flown private. My

639
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 1: bands take me private labels do, but I'm not that bourgeois.

640
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 1: I can fly business or first and be just as happy.

641
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: And I like the whole experience of going to an airport.

642
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: It's to me something that I've done for my whole life.

643
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: So I took a private plane because the folks that

644
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: were on the boat were totally freaked out from Branson's conversation.

645
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: And when I got back, I said to Ni Nikki,

646
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to wait on this musical. It's too

647
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 1: important to you and me and the global recover every

648
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: initiative that we're working with to make this opiate crisis

649
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: top of mind. Well, obviously COVID became top of mine,

650
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: and putting on a musical wasn't going to happen. So

651
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 1: where we are now is we have the director, the writer,

652
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 1: wrote the book, We had the actors, everything ready to go,

653
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: and all the investors were paid back. I paid back

654
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: every investor, whether it was Live Nation and Michael Rappino

655
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 1: or it was Dennis Arfa, gave them all their money

656
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: and said, when it comes up again, you choose whether

657
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 1: or not you want to lose money, but this circumstance

658
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: I brought you into, and I'll pay the bill. And

659
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 1: that's something people don't do in the music business. When

660
00:49:57,480 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 1: I make a mistake, I don't say it was your money.

661
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: I say it's my money. And that's how you get relationships.

662
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: So NICKI is set to do the musical when it's time.

663
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: Right now, the only musicals that are happening are branded

664
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: Lion King. There's a new Billions that's going to be made,

665
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: So if it's brand, you can make it happen. So

666
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: it'll probably happen in a couple of years. It won't

667
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: happen now. It was kind of depressing to me to

668
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 1: see such an important work not happening. But in between

669
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:45,520
Speaker 1: then we did The Dirt, which was great publicity. Yeah,

670
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: what an amazing story. Boy, eighty four million people, sixteen

671
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 1: years to make. Thank God for rick Yorn helping us

672
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 1: make it happen. By the way people think I make

673
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: these films, I do the marketing, I read the script,

674
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: I help use data to get the actors, but I

675
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: never go on the set. So we just did a

676
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,279
Speaker 1: movie called The Retaliators with twelve of our artists in

677
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: now I kept asking me, am I going to see you?

678
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 1: And I said, this isn't my expertise. You know. Do

679
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: I hang out in the studio? They say, well, you

680
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: used to. Why don't you hang out with us? And

681
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 1: I said, because I can now talk to you because

682
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 1: of hanging out in the studio about a verse, pre chorus, chorus, bridge, melody, lyric,

683
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: and I can do it over the phone because of

684
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: something called technology. I don't need to go sit in

685
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: a studio with you for days in days out like

686
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 1: I did with Bruce Fairburn or Quincy Jones. They taught me,

687
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: I'll teach you, but if you know everything, you don't

688
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: even need the phone call to send me the music.

689
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 1: It'll be your art and your career. And it works

690
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 1: really well when you say it can be your art

691
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 1: and your career. But I won't give you any input

692
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,560
Speaker 1: unless you want it. They want your input because they

693
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 1: see you're not doing it for ego the joy of

694
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: the art. Right. Yeah. I love having people around the

695
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: world tell me there's no way you're going to get

696
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 1: a Mongolian band on our radio station, or a retailer saying,

697
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? They don't even speak English. I

698
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: just love proven them wrong on Bad a Heel two

699
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 1: or the Begs where we did a one night only

700
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: special on HBO and syndicated around the world, and they're

701
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: back in stadiums after being in disco prisons. So for me,

702
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:54,399
Speaker 1: what keeps me excited about what I do are those things.

703
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,959
Speaker 1: Being able to get a band named five Finger Death

704
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: Punch to go platinum awesome. And you know what would

705
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: I rather do? Crochet? You know, or work as a

706
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: analyst or be one of these financial engineers that creates

707
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 1: nothing but brings out a few percentage points out of cash.

708
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: Not what I thrive to do in my life. But

709
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 1: you really view that you've never really had a job.

710
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 1: I've never had a job that it makes you independent

711
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 1: and you can speak your mind. You're not going to

712
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: get fired, and it teaches you empathy. You're not in

713
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,400
Speaker 1: a gig. Where you go, it's not my problem. Everything's

714
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 1: your problem if you own the company, from finance to

715
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 1: HR to strategy to supply chain. And I just love learning.

716
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:56,759
Speaker 1: I love what I did in the nineties where I

717
00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: went to Apple. There's a guy named Steve Fran's Easy

718
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 1: and I was working with Steve after Real Networks which

719
00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 1: was progressive networks. Rob Glazer had a technology where you

720
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: could hear on your computer sound and I was like what.

721
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: And then some guy named Mark Cuban shows up and

722
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: these two young guys like me are talking all about

723
00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 1: the future. So I just absorbed it and hung out

724
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: with him, introduced him to the record companies who tried

725
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: to stop it, and I'm like, you guys are crazy.

726
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 1: Someone's going to do this and they're going to run

727
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: away with your music, hence my Space. But I had

728
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: him in the room with Tommy Mottola, who said to me,

729
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 1: you're going to take all the magic away and I

730
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: said what, And he goes, you know the magic of

731
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: an album, the magic of my ears making that album.

732
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 1: You know this research and this sound scan and BDS,

733
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 1: all this crappy brought in the business. What makes me

734
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 1: special is my ears and my gut. I couldn't stop laughing.

735
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,240
Speaker 1: And then you know, you have guys like Strauszelnik, who

736
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: a Harvard educated guy running BMG and he wants to

737
00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:21,840
Speaker 1: get involved in it. And then he has a coup

738
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: with the old guys, you know, Rudy Gasner who was

739
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 1: international Clive. All these guys tried to pile on him,

740
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,319
Speaker 1: and I think he would have innovated the industry. I'll

741
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: tell it, ready to do it. He was ready to

742
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: buy half of Progressive Networks at the time so he

743
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: could distribute sound on the Internet. He gets bumped off,

744
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: so that now I strike three, going to three major CEOs.

745
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 1: So I go to Koopertino and I said, can I

746
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:58,319
Speaker 1: meet the engineer? It's the people that programmed the algorithms.

747
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: I think we need an audio jukebox and Steve he

748
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 1: didn't get credit because the other Steve was gone. The

749
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: guy that was running it had been the CEO of

750
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 1: Pepsi in Steve's absence. So jobs comes back from Pixar.

751
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: Steve is no longer there because he cleaned house with

752
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: all of the Pepsi dudes people, and all of a

753
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: sudden he finds out about this, and he created something

754
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:44,399
Speaker 1: called downloads and music starting to be able to sell

755
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 1: on the Internet, and on it goes. I met the

756
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: Google guys. I want to know how their platform worked.

757
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: I met the Facebook guy, and I want to know

758
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: how his platform worked by talk to the engineers because

759
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: I don't know anything. And thank God for my mom

760
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 1: because I learned a lot, and in the music business,

761
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:14,320
Speaker 1: algorithmic marketing is still strange to people. I tell people

762
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 1: they have to unlearn if they come to our company

763
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: because they're all stuck with single album tour. And I'm like,

764
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: come on, it's a global Internet. What are we talking

765
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: about here? And you know, you can keep people as

766
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: long as they want to learn, and then you got

767
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: to decide cost benefit of keeping them around if they don't,

768
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 1: what does that do to morale for people who do so.

769
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,240
Speaker 1: I've been very fortunate to find guys like Steve Karin.

770
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 1: Joe mcsadden is a great example. He came into a

771
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: staff meeting. He was the head of sales at Capital

772
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: and EMI for two decades and I worked with him

773
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: on Duran, Duran and Richard Marks, several other artists, and

774
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: he came into the company and he comes into staff

775
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: meeting after I had made a presentation about what we

776
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: were going to do to move the company into a

777
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: new era, and he said, all right, here's price and

778
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: positioning and here's the circulars I'm going to do. And

779
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: I said, Joe, I'm only going to tell you this

780
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:28,360
Speaker 1: three times in your life. This is the first. And

781
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: we record our staff meetings so everyone can learn, especially

782
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: the young folks. So Joe, who's my age back then

783
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: he would have been fifty something, comes in a second

784
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: time and he goes, all right, here's my price in

785
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: positioning and here's the circulars I'm buying. I said, Joe,

786
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you one more time after this

787
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: bottom line is all that money's being used for social

788
00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:08,960
Speaker 1: media and data the different departments. I don't give n

789
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:15,320
Speaker 1: f about retail. They're going to go away. He was like,

790
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:22,040
Speaker 1: what I said, Look at Amazon, it's going to go away.

791
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 1: So either if you want to stay here, come up

792
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,280
Speaker 1: within you title. Maybe that will help you project a

793
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: different vibe. It comes in with chief Consumption Officer, never

794
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: mentioned it again, and he's the guy that deals with

795
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: Apple and Amazon and Spotify for us, and he's an

796
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: amazing talent. That's a guy who unlearned. And then you

797
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: got kids that know everything because they worked at Sony

798
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: or Universal or Warners and they're used to quick and

799
00:59:57,440 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: rebuild fanbase. The artist development comes from fans, and it

800
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 1: comes from identifying those fans and then storytelling to that audience.

801
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 1: And if you're interested in shortcuts, you're not right for

802
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: our company because, like I said, our artists are going

803
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: to have twenty thirty forty to fifty year careers, not

804
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:27,360
Speaker 1: three years. So last question I have to ask you

805
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: foreshadow where you see the music business at large in

806
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: two years. What's going to be happening in your opinion, Well,

807
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: I think Spotify and Netflix are going to become a bundle.

808
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: They can't compete individually with Apple or Google. I think

809
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:53,280
Speaker 1: the major record companies and all these folks buying IP

810
01:00:55,240 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: would have overpaid. As the Great Millennium take over and

811
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: our generation goes away, everyone dies. You're gonna die. I'm

812
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: gonna die. So are they. And you know they're buying

813
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: these catalogs for you know, half a billion dollars because

814
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 1: of multiples. Well, when interest rates come up, the leverage

815
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: of that money isn't going to work. And then what happens,

816
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: same thing as happens with housing, you know, everything bombs.

817
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: That's going to cause the major labels to rethink their

818
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: business model and develop artists. They're going to have twenty

819
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: thirty forty year careers. Is every artist. I shouldn't say this,

820
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: but I'm going to. So if you're a hip hop

821
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:53,479
Speaker 1: fan and you're hormonal and you're twelve to twenty four,

822
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: you might rhyme to putting a cap up someone's ass.

823
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: But once you get a job and you start getting

824
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 1: on prime to get diapers, are you really going to

825
01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: be that angry? Or you're going to be happy about

826
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 1: your kid, or you're married, you're no longer pissed because

827
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: your friends didn't talk to you for a day, Right,

828
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: and I love you, you you love me. On the pop side,

829
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: you get burned, you end up in a situation where well,

830
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: I thought he loved me, but he took my friend

831
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 1: out and he laid her instead, you know. So you

832
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 1: write about those things as people get older, and that's

833
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: how and issues, I think issues. Once we get through

834
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: this horrible place we are in the world right now

835
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 1: with aristocracy and autocrats where they feed off of each other,

836
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about the kinds of things

837
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 1: that Dylan talked about, or the cars be still's Nash

838
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: talked about. Look what's happening in Ukraine right now, or

839
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: look what's happening in America where today it was leaked

840
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 1: at the Supreme Court is gonna outlaw abortion? Now? What's

841
01:03:18,040 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: that about politicians on tape lying and still holding their seats.

842
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: It's okay to lie. So these norms I believe in

843
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:33,520
Speaker 1: a couple of years are going to get back on

844
01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: track because it's not normal for a country to just

845
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: walk in and blow up innocent civilians to do what

846
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 1: to prove you've still got an empire. And I think

847
01:03:48,120 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 1: if the UK did that, they used to have us

848
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: in Australia and Canada and India, well they gave it up.

849
01:03:55,960 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: This guy, he knows how to divide, and I think

850
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: the music business, just like with artists speaking about their issues,

851
01:04:07,240 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: the music business has a moral reason to use their

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01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: lyrics to change things and it's right now. So between

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01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: the consolidation of platforms and the industry reshaping itself for

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01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 1: the long term, and finance getting the hell out of

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01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: the music business, I think we're going to have a

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01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: different business in a couple of years. I think we're

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01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,880
Speaker 1: gonna have a big recession, and after recessions, new things happen.

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01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: In seven I started a record company. It's now the

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01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 1: number one rock label and Billboard, So I think that's

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01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 1: what's going to happen. I think there's going to be

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01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: changed and guys like us need to be able to

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01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:56,479
Speaker 1: speak out so that we're not just silent. We're saying

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01:04:56,520 --> 01:05:01,240
Speaker 1: it's not okay to lie on tape and then tell

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01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: people that's okay, or be a finance guy and say, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm a centrist. I don't like big government. But isn't

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01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: big government outlying abortion? Isn't that political? I don't want

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01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: to pay taxes, is what they ought to say. But

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01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 1: when you don't pay taxes, you don't re educate the

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01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: uneducated who've lost their trade to China or Mexico. And

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01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:34,720
Speaker 1: if you don't speak out, then how do you change things?

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01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: How do you get our airports if you don't pay

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01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,880
Speaker 1: taxes to the point where they look like France's airports

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01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: or even Ukraine's airports. How do you fix the roads?

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01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 1: Look at this trail we're on. This is a road now,

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01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 1: and look at it. There's no state and federal money

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01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: for it because no one pays taxes. They're all going

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01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: to Florida if they're billionaire, and Florida's advertising, Hey, come

878
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 1: to Florida. We're crazier than anywhere else you've been. But

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01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:09,040
Speaker 1: you won't have to pay taxes and you can help

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01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:17,160
Speaker 1: finance it for us. Oh Alan Cobac. I love talking

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01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: to you about life, about the music business, about your passions,

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01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,200
Speaker 1: but I really love the heart and soul that you

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01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: bring to it all, which is so important now, the

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01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: truth and the authenticity, And I just can't thank you

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01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:40,760
Speaker 1: enough for taking this walk. It means so much to me. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm really grateful that I have the opportunity and that

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01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:48,200
Speaker 1: you have a podcast that people can hear and hopefully

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01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 1: this conversation helps people that want to get into the

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01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: music business look at things from a different perspective. So

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. I'm very grateful. Thank you Allan,

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Speaker 1: You're welcome. Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.