Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast, coming at you, shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by First Light creating proven versatile
Speaker 1: hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for
Speaker 1: every hunt, First Light, Go farther, stay longer. Can everybody coming?
Speaker 1: Uh coming coming to you? Perched high above the beautiful
Speaker 1: Pacific Ocean, wonderful for you here, Thank you with Kimmy Werner,
Speaker 1: Seth Morris, Coudy, Danny Bolton, Ryan Callahan. Danny has the
Speaker 1: first little just as the first little thing titillate everybody.
Speaker 1: Did we talk when you were on the show before
Speaker 1: do we talked about what you did for a living? Um?
Speaker 1: Real briefly that again I find those Yeah. So we
Speaker 1: trained some military special forces guys and some other government agencies,
Speaker 1: UM off road driving, off our driving technique and then
Speaker 1: a lot of recovery stuff. So a lot of work
Speaker 1: with the winches, UM, a lot of work would just
Speaker 1: towing each other out if they need to use toast
Speaker 1: draps or whatnot, and then also filling them in on
Speaker 1: how to fix stuff, kind of giving them the confidence
Speaker 1: and wrenching on their own vehicles. UM, A lot of
Speaker 1: guys have that kind of personal desire to do for
Speaker 1: their own vehicles too. But if we break an axle
Speaker 1: or something or blow a differential out there, we get
Speaker 1: them in there, we get them involved, and then it
Speaker 1: just gives them a chance to kind of understand that
Speaker 1: whole process and see how how simple it really can be. UM,
Speaker 1: if you kind of know what you're doing, and just
Speaker 1: try to build that confidence in them. So if something
Speaker 1: happens to them out in the field, A lot of
Speaker 1: times did just be leaving that vehicle if it was
Speaker 1: a dire situation. But once you're down to one vehicle,
Speaker 1: that's all you got. So, UM, do you guys train
Speaker 1: in the same vehicles they use? We do. Uh this
Speaker 1: next trip that we're going out there bringing out some
Speaker 1: of their own military vehicles. So I'll just be riding
Speaker 1: in one of those. Um they're called the one dot ones.
Speaker 1: So we're training in their vehicles. And then a lot
Speaker 1: of times they'll get like toylet of high lux is
Speaker 1: and they'll get an array of vehicles because sometimes they
Speaker 1: want to blend in wherever they're going, so they get
Speaker 1: some pretty Yankee stuff from what I've seen some pictures
Speaker 1: of sometimes, so just kind of giving them a good
Speaker 1: feeling of off road mobility stuff and what they can
Speaker 1: be capable of. A lot of it is just building
Speaker 1: confidence in them. Is that is that what you want
Speaker 1: Danny to hit her? Or was it the coffee roasting?
Speaker 1: You're more interested no vehicle driving? Yeah, you're tangled up
Speaker 1: in the coffee business. I'm tangled left and all kinds
Speaker 1: of stuff. Um. My family has an rushing company, so
Speaker 1: I grew up working construction. UM a lot of heavy equipment,
Speaker 1: running bulldozers or excavators or whatnot. And then also my
Speaker 1: dad had a ranch property that he bought in one year.
Speaker 1: They were slow and he didn't you know, the construction
Speaker 1: was slow, so he's like, hey, let's keep these guys
Speaker 1: busy and planted a coffee field. So when I was
Speaker 1: a kid ten eleven years old, we had to plant
Speaker 1: a bunch of these coffee trees down in the nursery
Speaker 1: next to our house, let them grow for a year,
Speaker 1: and then we took him up to the farm and
Speaker 1: planted him. Um up at the farm when I was
Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen, And it takes a couple of years
Speaker 1: for those coffee trees to really start producing. But the
Speaker 1: first couple of years it did produce, they ended up
Speaker 1: winning first place in a cupping competition. So then I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, like we got we have something here.
Speaker 1: So kind of snowballed from there. You know, website, coffee shop,
Speaker 1: our whole owned million because my dad's really hands on
Speaker 1: and wants to see the whole process. So I bought
Speaker 1: all the equipment. I ran the dry mill for a
Speaker 1: long time and the wet mill. So the wet mills,
Speaker 1: when the coffee comes off the farm, it's got to
Speaker 1: get the skin off, it washed and then dried so
Speaker 1: that it's shelf stable, drive to a certain temperature um
Speaker 1: not temperature, moisture content so that it doesn't mold, and
Speaker 1: then from there you sort it again so that you
Speaker 1: have all the same sized coffee beans so when you
Speaker 1: roast it, it's like putting cookies in the oven, right,
Speaker 1: Like you got small ones and big ones. The big
Speaker 1: ones aren't gonna be done by times the small ones
Speaker 1: are burnt, so you want to get all the same
Speaker 1: sized beans, all the same density. So it's a couple
Speaker 1: of machines that have to run for that, And it
Speaker 1: was cool because that was mainly during the winter. I
Speaker 1: would do that work, so I'd come home work three
Speaker 1: four months in the winter, and then I could go
Speaker 1: travel and do work wherever else. I was traveling doing
Speaker 1: a bunch of automotive stuff too. Um and that heavy
Speaker 1: machinery experience kind of let into your driving too, right,
Speaker 1: because you gotta make your own dirt bike courses and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did so when we were kids, when you know,
Speaker 1: we were blessed to have equipment, so anytime it wasn't
Speaker 1: being used, we'd built it own dirt bike track stuff.
Speaker 1: So we built some pretty crazy ask jumps that I
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't let my own kid jump, you know. And
Speaker 1: um dot led into working in the automotive industry. UH
Speaker 1: company came over here and wanted to build a course
Speaker 1: for because they sponsored iron Man that we have here
Speaker 1: the World Championships in Kuna, and they wanted some people
Speaker 1: to be able to drive over some bumps and stuff.
Speaker 1: And they called my dad and he was like, hey,
Speaker 1: none of my employees built that track. My son built it,
Speaker 1: you know, and his cousins. UM. So they called me
Speaker 1: and I was sixteen at the time, and so I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, no, problem, like sounds easy, and I
Speaker 1: showed up and I was real short to at that time.
Speaker 1: I like grow spert later on, and that guy was
Speaker 1: just questioning me big time, and I knew we had
Speaker 1: the skills. I told my cousin, like, hey, let's get
Speaker 1: this done. We had three days to build it. We
Speaker 1: built it in one day, and the guys like, all right,
Speaker 1: these guys are legit. So the next year, right out
Speaker 1: of high school, I went working eleven. I went six
Speaker 1: months on the road um for a certain car company
Speaker 1: tour that we did and built tracks all over the US.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what led me to the mainland.
Speaker 1: Like I was born and race here and then read
Speaker 1: out of high school, I was over there and they
Speaker 1: didn't really want to fly me back and forth, so
Speaker 1: I was CouchSurfing. I'd go to my aunts and stuff
Speaker 1: in California, and ended up in gardner Ville, Nevada for
Speaker 1: a little while, which is by Lake Tahoe. So that
Speaker 1: brought me to the mainland for about four or five
Speaker 1: years until the recession hit in two thousand and ten.
Speaker 1: Two thousand nine, I moved home and just started working
Speaker 1: construction because that the whole car company right the whole
Speaker 1: car industry dried up. But during that time in the Mainland,
Speaker 1: we raced off road. We built our own race truck
Speaker 1: because we knew how to weld and everything. So me
Speaker 1: and my cousin fabricated our own race truck, built the
Speaker 1: whole world cage and everything, and did real well doing
Speaker 1: that desert racing like the Baja Staff, and then that's
Speaker 1: kind of all that's kind of led into the military stuff.
Speaker 1: I met a friend on a toy at a photo
Speaker 1: shoot that's like, dude, I gotta get you into this
Speaker 1: because we gotta go camping for four days. I need
Speaker 1: someone who can help cook. It's not going to complain, um,
Speaker 1: you know about being cold or tired or whatever, because
Speaker 1: some days we're out there, you know, middle of the
Speaker 1: night with night vision on trying to fix something. So
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, man. So that kind of got
Speaker 1: me into the whole military thing, which is awesome because
Speaker 1: with those guys that you know, you can really be yourself.
Speaker 1: Some of the corporate stuff, you've gotta be careful what
Speaker 1: you say, you know, dot your eyes, cross your tees
Speaker 1: and like be a certain way. But with these guys, um,
Speaker 1: they have a lot of the similar mindset as us
Speaker 1: and just enjoying like the struggle. So it's been a pleasure. Mhmm. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it makes you think I got the wrong business man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I've done some like hunting, guiding and stuff, and
Speaker 1: I'll do I'll teach class for that outfit called taking
Speaker 1: her slow. Yeah. Yeah. But here's how I like to
Speaker 1: drive down trails. It's called using your binoculars. Just kind
Speaker 1: of re blog. That's a big part of it. Like
Speaker 1: these guys, it's the same as offered racing. Like most
Speaker 1: offered racing, the finishing rate is so of the people
Speaker 1: who start the race. You know, some races are a
Speaker 1: little bit better, but a lot of people start the
Speaker 1: race don't finish. So we teach these guys like, go
Speaker 1: fast when you can, but there's certain areas you cannot
Speaker 1: go fast. You have to take it easy on the vehicles.
Speaker 1: And we're talking like inches. If you're off on the
Speaker 1: wrong line, you're not making it up an obstacle. But
Speaker 1: if you just take your time, back it up a
Speaker 1: little bit, use the right technique. We teach them a
Speaker 1: lot of driving with both feet, you know, left foot
Speaker 1: on the brake, right foot on the gas. A lot
Speaker 1: of open differential stuff. Um, one tire will get up
Speaker 1: in the air, and those differentials are lazy. They'll send
Speaker 1: all the power to the easiest one to turn. So
Speaker 1: you're using that left foot break to kind of modulate
Speaker 1: that and still get traction, and that a way. It
Speaker 1: keeps it too, from getting to a bunch of wheel spin.
Speaker 1: And that's where you start breaking assholes and differentials because
Speaker 1: you get all that wheel spin, all that torque, and
Speaker 1: then all of sudden, if you go over something, it
Speaker 1: gets traction again. All that traction has gotta go somewhere,
Speaker 1: and that's where you start snapping stuff, drive shofts and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. So mhmm, yeah, it's fascinating man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd like to take that course. Yeah, yeah, I'd love
Speaker 1: to have you guys out. I'd love to have you
Speaker 1: guys out. Well, we'll plan a trip. Yeah, we get
Speaker 1: a couple of vehicles together and um think steve truck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we can take Steve's truck or we can take your
Speaker 1: own vehicles, we can take our vehicles. We'll take both
Speaker 1: because we have all the tools and stuff set up too.
Speaker 1: We'll make sure we have the right stuff and we
Speaker 1: can even come scout some stuff in Montana because a
Speaker 1: lot of are a lot of hunting, right, you end
Speaker 1: up in some pretty crazy places. I'm sure you have
Speaker 1: stories of being stuck somewhere and do you hunting? And Sonora. Man,
Speaker 1: it's like a proving ground for vehicles. Okay, Uh, we're
Speaker 1: gonna come out here anyway. I haven't contacted yet, but
Speaker 1: there's a we're gonna have like all company dive, not
Speaker 1: all company. We're gonna try to get a private free
Speaker 1: dive one and two yeah, safety rescue. All that ship
Speaker 1: lined up. I haven't contacted the dude yet, but he's
Speaker 1: in Hawaii. Yeah, and um so if we come out
Speaker 1: for that, we can do vehicle training to that. You
Speaker 1: want to go to our dive thing with this kid?
Speaker 1: I would love to. And I think that's great. You
Speaker 1: guys are going to do that. You could be like,
Speaker 1: that's not how I do it. We should round it out, sharks,
Speaker 1: throw like a Woolford course in there too. Just knock
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff out. Two d medical, Yeah, driving
Speaker 1: diving medical. Uh. Okay, I gotta move down the line here.
Speaker 1: Oh do you know what did you see this article? Uh?
Speaker 1: Do you know the actor Nick Offerman. He plays like
Speaker 1: on Parks and reck It's kind of like Parks and
Speaker 1: Recket is kind of like the Goodwill Bin of the office,
Speaker 1: Like they had the office and someone's like, which we
Speaker 1: had more stuff like that, right, and so they came
Speaker 1: up with that. So the dude, there's a guy that
Speaker 1: plays kind of blow hard on he plays like a
Speaker 1: libertarian Nick Offerman. Oh that's oh yeah, okay, I got you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He writes this thing and Outside Magazine, and I used
Speaker 1: to be on the mast headed Outside Magazine. So it's
Speaker 1: funny someone sends me this article he wrote called Nick
Speaker 1: Offerman's Call of the Candy Ass. And when I saw
Speaker 1: the headline, I was like, he stole my dad's word,
Speaker 1: because I've never heard anybody but me and my old
Speaker 1: man described to one as a candy ass. Naturally, I
Speaker 1: read the article. It turns out he's talking about the podcast.
Speaker 1: He's talking about this podcast. Well he says how he
Speaker 1: says he's listening to a podcast. He doesn't name the podcast.
Speaker 1: This is a recent episode, and a guest we had,
Speaker 1: and I think it's John Allen was talking about Throw
Speaker 1: Henry David Throw, and I pointed out because there's an article.
Speaker 1: I can't remember who wrote the article hacking on Throw
Speaker 1: about how like throws like he went to live in
Speaker 1: this cabin, you know, but it like he's going to
Speaker 1: his moss house every other day, right, right, But like
Speaker 1: it wasn't this writer kind of looked at like how
Speaker 1: Throw presented what his reality was. You know that was
Speaker 1: Brent West because we were talking about Maine and Throw,
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, because like so there's this thing
Speaker 1: like throws. Time in the woods is understood to be away,
Speaker 1: but there was like you know, there's been like exposes
Speaker 1: about like what throw is actually about. Like he's a
Speaker 1: big mom's boy and he went to so I said,
Speaker 1: throws a candy ess. So this guy Offerman writes about
Speaker 1: this podcast host me okay, and how he upset he
Speaker 1: is about what I said about Throw. And then he
Speaker 1: goes on like you know this kind of like classic
Speaker 1: like the outdoors is for everybody and it's not your
Speaker 1: position to judge, right, and who are you to write
Speaker 1: all this stuff? But they also it's weirdly like he
Speaker 1: like weirdly contradicts himself. It's mostly like a bike riding
Speaker 1: story he like, but he sets it up about this
Speaker 1: mean podcast host and then closes with a mean podcast
Speaker 1: host and it's about him riding his bike ground uh
Speaker 1: And he says he contradicts himself because he says how
Speaker 1: throw in his words throw head um. He says, I
Speaker 1: powerfully admire Throw, but I wasn't anger. Instead, I wondered
Speaker 1: if this guy was aware of the naturalist storied toughness.
Speaker 1: This is a quote, an Offerman quote. His inner circle
Speaker 1: of friends knew him to hike for many miles, often
Speaker 1: with wet feet. And he goes on and so this
Speaker 1: is Offerman on Throw. He says Throw had little use
Speaker 1: for those who couldn't keep up, which would lead me
Speaker 1: to believe that Hearthrow has little use for those who
Speaker 1: can't keep up, which need leads me to believe that
Speaker 1: he's a bully or is the outdoors forever everyone not
Speaker 1: and throws of you because he has little use for
Speaker 1: those who can't keep up, according to Offerman. Then we
Speaker 1: get down the page and Offerman then has this to
Speaker 1: say about I sensed that that demeaning podcast hosts and
Speaker 1: cyclist hating drivers come from a culture of bullying and aggression,
Speaker 1: one that so often misunderstands our need for outdoor adventure.
Speaker 1: It's like he's hanging out in the discussions they have
Speaker 1: at my kids elementary school bullying and aggression. It's like
Speaker 1: you think a dude, an actor who makes his living
Speaker 1: being funny, would better understand like a joke. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: here's something that you need to know about this fella
Speaker 1: he's got. He spent all of his time being a
Speaker 1: a woodworker, and from what I've seen and kind of read,
Speaker 1: he's like New England style, is kind of a traditional woodworker.
Speaker 1: He's got his own word working show up. I think
Speaker 1: he's got some employees these days, and they turn out stuff.
Speaker 1: And I want to say that he built either canoes
Speaker 1: or kayaks or something like that good, and I would
Speaker 1: venture to expound that, Um, a man who builds a
Speaker 1: hand carved canoe is going to be real tight with
Speaker 1: Throw mm hmm to go for a paddle, as they say,
Speaker 1: and that, but like bullying and aggression. To make a
Speaker 1: joke about Throw. We asked him to come on the
Speaker 1: show and his person said, Nick is not available. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Throw's Dad's you can't get that. I think there's
Speaker 1: a there's a line in there, beads of water sliding
Speaker 1: off the back of your canoe paddle like like bullying
Speaker 1: and aggression. Should I like to listen to the show. Oh?
Speaker 1: I loved his character on on Parks Wreck. That's one
Speaker 1: of the few I bet I've seen more Parks and
Speaker 1: Wreck episodes than I ever did the Office episodes. Um,
Speaker 1: maybe he's want to be hunter and he was in
Speaker 1: that using that Sam Elliott movie that got a bunch
Speaker 1: of awards. I think we're Sam Elliott's like the kind
Speaker 1: of hack cowboy actor that gets a second shot. And
Speaker 1: you ever see that one? Real good Offerman was a
Speaker 1: great character in that. I didn't know who it was
Speaker 1: until I realized it was the blow hard from Parks Wreck.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even what's that? I don't I don't think so.
Speaker 1: But he was just like, uh, he was a well
Speaker 1: defined character compared to everybody else. Yeah, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1: Uh here's a good piece of mal What do you
Speaker 1: think about that? Kenny? I mean, I do think you
Speaker 1: can be demeaning sometimes, but that sometimes yes, but I
Speaker 1: he's telling that like when yesterday you were being very
Speaker 1: demeaning towards stand up paddling and saying that anybody who's
Speaker 1: into that, Um, you just wonder why they would ever
Speaker 1: get into it and what the heck they gave up
Speaker 1: to get into it, or maybe they just didn't do
Speaker 1: anything ever before and that's why they got into it. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: give me some more. Is that really the word for it?
Speaker 1: Or it just like a judgmental I'm skiing. I always
Speaker 1: hear you putting down skiers. Yeah, I know. Anything like
Speaker 1: something else I'm demeaning about is any kind of when
Speaker 1: your kids are in something that makes them have to
Speaker 1: be somewhere on weekends. Yeah. I ever heard you talking
Speaker 1: about that yesterday too and saying, don't play any sports
Speaker 1: on the weekends because no, but he's gonna go We're
Speaker 1: not good. Yeah, I know. Well I'll have you know that.
Speaker 1: My wife starting to talk some sense and do him
Speaker 1: actually talking, and she said I had failed utterly because
Speaker 1: he just dug his heels in. So he's he's enrolled
Speaker 1: in weekend sports. It's up in the air, Kimmy, what's
Speaker 1: your parental position on that? I don't know. I was
Speaker 1: definitely listening and thinking what am I gonna do when
Speaker 1: buddies of that age, because I would feel the exact
Speaker 1: same way, where like eight saturdays in a row. Do
Speaker 1: you need to go down to this place? Yeah, and
Speaker 1: my dad was the same way with me, where we
Speaker 1: didn't get into any sports that took him away from
Speaker 1: like fishing and diving and camping and stuff. Tell me
Speaker 1: more demeaning things, so I'm gonna try to change my ways.
Speaker 1: Are the ones that came to my mind right away. Um,
Speaker 1: just one example from each day would be fine. What
Speaker 1: about the tame pets? Oh that I don't like domestic animals?
Speaker 1: You guys, here's the problem. Yeah, we're gonna move on.
Speaker 1: And here's the problem. Here's what I don't like about
Speaker 1: what you're doing. No, I'm gonna I'm gonna demean you
Speaker 1: guys from it. This is gonna apply to me to
Speaker 1: let's letter. H. Everyone has opinions about stuff. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: everyone has opinions about stuff. Um, but I find that
Speaker 1: when if someone has an opinion and they and they
Speaker 1: like ex like express it emphatically or or really express it,
Speaker 1: that it starts to make people uncomfortable. Right, So me
Speaker 1: saying that, like, domestic dogs aren't as interesting to me
Speaker 1: as wild dogs because I don't understand what they do
Speaker 1: all day. But but Kyo bust his ass all day,
Speaker 1: it's just more interesting to me. But then somebody like, well,
Speaker 1: that's demeaning to domestic dogs. Yeah, everybody has an opinion, right,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people just don't say what they're thinking,
Speaker 1: or it's just like one little blip and then you
Speaker 1: don't get the full story behind why they feel that way.
Speaker 1: My wife would be like, you always think you're right.
Speaker 1: I'm like, do you often think you're wrong? I think
Speaker 1: the difference between that, though, is everybody has opinions, and
Speaker 1: that is absolutely true. But I think that when you
Speaker 1: can understand that so many truths all exist at the
Speaker 1: same time, and so your opinion is just one of
Speaker 1: many many truths, Um, then I think it sounds a
Speaker 1: little less demeaning. But if you say your opinion like
Speaker 1: this is the truth and this is the only truth,
Speaker 1: then everybody else got it wrong, then um, it sounds
Speaker 1: a little demeaning. That's a hard pill to swallow. Let
Speaker 1: me counter counter. Here's the way to look at it.
Speaker 1: Throws dead so like Mama's boy. No, So here's we're
Speaker 1: talking about a dead writer. Okay, throws dead like I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna hurt, throws like book sales to high school
Speaker 1: students Okay, stand up paddle boarding is a a luxury
Speaker 1: recreational activity. It's not like it's like a It's like
Speaker 1: like many of the things I'm too into. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a nothingness. My feelings about domestic dogs are going
Speaker 1: to have any impact on pet ownership in America. I
Speaker 1: have a domestic dog, so maybe I'm like goofing on
Speaker 1: like fairly harmless things that don't really matter. Okay, so
Speaker 1: if if I'm like goofing on stand up paddle board,
Speaker 1: He's like, am I really? Am I really like creating
Speaker 1: trouble for someone no or a dead guy? I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not bothered by your how you can
Speaker 1: be demeaning. Sometimes I think that it's line, you know,
Speaker 1: but it's still demeaning. Dude. I'm not going to mean
Speaker 1: anything anymore. Start being one of those if we can
Speaker 1: get through this podcast, I'm gonna start being one of
Speaker 1: those guys just likes everything. It's funny when you said
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be that guy who likes everything. The dog
Speaker 1: emerged from underneath the couch. Where's that dog? Um Ah? Okay,
Speaker 1: I think it's good you have opinions. You're to hurt
Speaker 1: people's doings and that's fine. Yeah, more people need to
Speaker 1: share their opinions because people are getting thin skin. Well
Speaker 1: that's why he let me back up before we even
Speaker 1: talk about this. I asked Nick Offerman to come on
Speaker 1: the on the show, and we got like had I
Speaker 1: had some people, you know, new people that knew him
Speaker 1: and his schedule are like blew it off. So my
Speaker 1: instinct was to have him on the show and laugh
Speaker 1: about throwing. Yeah, that was his opportunity to share his opinion. Well,
Speaker 1: I thought it'd be fun. I even said that we'll
Speaker 1: talk about we'll talk about your books, authors do real
Speaker 1: well in the show, we'll talk about throwing. It'll be fun.
Speaker 1: He's not available. He's too covered in sawdust thinking about
Speaker 1: his new England paddle, probably a close proximity to his
Speaker 1: mom's house, right, Steve um Oh, I got a prosecutor.
Speaker 1: I was giving a hot tip for raising children that
Speaker 1: uh Ninja throwing stars are a riot, A prosecutor wrote
Speaker 1: in a deputy he's a deputy prosecutor in Indiana. A
Speaker 1: one let you all know, especially you're Indiana listeners, that
Speaker 1: he calls the Chinese throwing stars, which I do remember.
Speaker 1: Some people call him Ninja throwing stars. Some people call
Speaker 1: him Chinese throwing stars, even though I believe that's the Japanese.
Speaker 1: The Japanese word for them is uh uh assure it
Speaker 1: can either way. I'm a deputy prosecutor in Indiana. I
Speaker 1: want to let you all know, especially Indiana listeners, the
Speaker 1: Chinese throwing star is there illegal in Indiana. See Indiana
Speaker 1: Codett seven five Dash twelve Officer. This was made in Japan.
Speaker 1: Chinese throwing stars defined as a throwing knife, throwing iron,
Speaker 1: or other knife like weapon with blades set at different angles.
Speaker 1: It is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by up to
Speaker 1: sixty days in jail. He then points out, I've been
Speaker 1: a prosecutor for seven years and I've never heard of
Speaker 1: this crime being charged. I would love to know how
Speaker 1: it got on the books. I was saying that when
Speaker 1: I was trying to find Ninja throwing stars for my kids,
Speaker 1: they don't sell them on Amazon. I had to go
Speaker 1: to a ninja supply warehouse to get mine online. Ninja
Speaker 1: supply warehouse to get my throwing stars on the Dark Lab. Sure,
Speaker 1: I can probably put you on some sort of list.
Speaker 1: H m hmmm. Oh, here's another good one guy wrote
Speaker 1: in on our recent episode, if there's lead in the air,
Speaker 1: there's hoping the heart. Um. We debated a lot of
Speaker 1: feedback on this one. We had on Chris Parrish of
Speaker 1: the Peregrine Fund, and we talked a lot about lead
Speaker 1: ammunition versus copper ammunition, and we talked about lead toxicity, leading,
Speaker 1: the environment, effects on condors, on on and on. It's
Speaker 1: a very good conversation. I thought I was gonna ask
Speaker 1: you what you thought. Old Chris there loved it. I
Speaker 1: thought he did a great job. Yeah, he's a smart fellow.
Speaker 1: I had pointed out my h oh, I'm gonna do
Speaker 1: you don't mind if I demean myself, do you? I
Speaker 1: often talked about how I'm real bad at basic arithmetic.
Speaker 1: That's the um and I said, how would one ever
Speaker 1: figure out, uh, the density if there's one eighteen thousand
Speaker 1: lead pellets per acre? And I made a comment like
Speaker 1: I would never be able to figure out what that
Speaker 1: looked like what I figured it out for us? An
Speaker 1: acre is forty three thousand, five sixty square feet, so
Speaker 1: D eighteen thousand, which is the number of lead pellets
Speaker 1: per acre in some of these areas. They've surveyed. Sean
Speaker 1: brought that up on the Sean's Duck Report. Divided by
Speaker 1: forty three thousand, five hundred sixty comes out too for
Speaker 1: every square foot two point seven, so round up to three. Uh.
Speaker 1: And some of these uh and some of these waterfowl
Speaker 1: hunting areas are talking about they were finding for every
Speaker 1: square foot, look at the tiles on the floor, twelve
Speaker 1: inch tiles, there'll be three pellets laying there. Pretty good
Speaker 1: density pellets. What was the uh the math equation that
Speaker 1: we're talking about, And I said we should mention on
Speaker 1: the podcast so someone we can figure it out. Oh,
Speaker 1: here's a good one. This this, this actually has This
Speaker 1: came about from my conversation about Kimmy. I still don't
Speaker 1: remember having a hard time even saying thoughts anymore because like,
Speaker 1: like knowing Kimmy, you think some meeting, are you gonna
Speaker 1: be like come like bff with Nick Offerman and talk
Speaker 1: about how bad I am. No. I I think that
Speaker 1: we can all be de meaning sometimes. But when you
Speaker 1: just said that you're not, and then you asked what
Speaker 1: my opinion about that was, I just had to say, like,
Speaker 1: I definitely think you can be de meaning, which is fine.
Speaker 1: Do you think it's de meaning to call someone de meaning?
Speaker 1: Not if they ask for it, So that's just being
Speaker 1: a friend. I was explaining to Seth how I've become,
Speaker 1: how I have become. My best day black hot fishing
Speaker 1: was my first day black hot fishing, and it's one
Speaker 1: of the few things in life for the more I
Speaker 1: do it, the worst I get. Like you usually expect
Speaker 1: in life, You're trained to expect this sort of like experience,
Speaker 1: right like as experience increases, sort of like you're a
Speaker 1: deptness or you know, yeah, you get better. It's just
Speaker 1: like a like a basic thing that happens in life.
Speaker 1: But with black hot fishing or sable fish fishing, my
Speaker 1: I get worse the more I do it. And I
Speaker 1: was talking about need to get out of my rut
Speaker 1: on sable fish fishing, and I mentioned how your father
Speaker 1: when I asked him why he's so successful fishing black
Speaker 1: hot in Southeast Alaska, he laid out for me his formula.
Speaker 1: You want me to mention it, No, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it is. Well, he uses those little Hawaiian chum
Speaker 1: bags that delivered chum down to ft of water, which
Speaker 1: I bought two of. And then realized in the time
Speaker 1: it took me to order them, I would have made
Speaker 1: some with a needle and thread in a pair of
Speaker 1: blue jeans, but I didn't know. I didn't have one
Speaker 1: of my hands yet. The mucky dog bags like the
Speaker 1: palube you guys were, Paulu means chump. They just call
Speaker 1: it like polou chum bag, but in print in quotes,
Speaker 1: so it's like Hawaiians and and Americans understand it, right,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's a Hawaiian word polu. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't mean barf or yeah. So they have it
Speaker 1: described as like a polo and in chum, one of
Speaker 1: them being in parentheses bag. I bought to he did that. Also.
Speaker 1: He mentioned that they will set an anchor in four
Speaker 1: hundred feet of water, yeah, and tie off on that
Speaker 1: so that you're holding a spot and when you're dropping chump,
Speaker 1: you're not drifting away from the chump, and then they
Speaker 1: wait and bring him into him. Yeah. And the theory
Speaker 1: behind that, which I was told is um that the
Speaker 1: younger black card, the smaller black cud. You know, like
Speaker 1: a lot of fish species are like more frisky, more aggressive,
Speaker 1: more assertive, and sometimes though bigger and fatter you get
Speaker 1: the more slow you are, and so if you're constantly
Speaker 1: drifting or moving, you're always going to be attracting the
Speaker 1: smaller fish, whereas if you stay in one place, it
Speaker 1: um gives the big ones time to move in and
Speaker 1: start biting. You know, when you said how the younger
Speaker 1: ones are friskier and the older ones get a little complaining.
Speaker 1: I want you to know that I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I know some people like that,
Speaker 1: but I didn't sad on that one. Sad on it.
Speaker 1: But I bet the fishing that combo got your wheels
Speaker 1: turning though two right, like, is it inching you towards
Speaker 1: the investment of dropping a semi permanent buoy out there,
Speaker 1: which brings around the math question and seth, I bet
Speaker 1: you've talked about the podcast. Someone to send you a
Speaker 1: very good explanation. You need someone like when you said
Speaker 1: an anchor, you need some amount of scope for tide swing,
Speaker 1: So better describe scope, like, well, you don't really depends
Speaker 1: on how big your weight is. What scope is when
Speaker 1: you go to anchor a boat, scope is the angle
Speaker 1: of the line, meaning let's say you're anchoring a boat
Speaker 1: and one ft of water and you have and you
Speaker 1: have exactly one of rope or let's say a hundred
Speaker 1: one ft a rope, and you lower it down, anchor
Speaker 1: hits the bottom, you're tied it to the boat. You're
Speaker 1: in a hundred feet of water, you have a hundred
Speaker 1: one ft a rope. You have basically zero scope when
Speaker 1: the when the boat moves is going to clonk the
Speaker 1: anchor long and it can move for tide or wind
Speaker 1: or both sometimes. And scope is like your angle. So
Speaker 1: the more scope you have, the better your thingle hold
Speaker 1: and the less weight it takes to hold the object.
Speaker 1: And sometimes they'll anchor stuff where it's actually a seven
Speaker 1: to one for every foot of depth you have seven
Speaker 1: ft and you can have and that anchor line is
Speaker 1: that at a very shallow angle as it runs through
Speaker 1: the water column, and you just get better grip, especially
Speaker 1: with an admiralty anchor that has those points on it,
Speaker 1: because they dig in. So I was wondering if you
Speaker 1: went out the four feet of water and you're in
Speaker 1: an area with like a twenty five ft tide swing
Speaker 1: and you drop an anchor and tie it to a bootie,
Speaker 1: how much if it's if you know the exact depth, Like,
Speaker 1: let's say the exact depth is four ft of water.
Speaker 1: How much rope do you need? And then when you
Speaker 1: figured that the wind, then the tide is moving that
Speaker 1: thing around. It's actually imagine it throughout the course of
Speaker 1: a day, it's gonna make like a conical shape. So
Speaker 1: at any given time, how big is the diameter? What
Speaker 1: sort of diameter are you swinging above the fixed point
Speaker 1: of the anchor, so that if you drop chum down,
Speaker 1: are you swinging a circle of like a hundred yard diameter?
Speaker 1: Why was Dick from been listening to the podcast Are
Speaker 1: you swinging? Are you swinging a thousand yard? Yeah? Like,
Speaker 1: how over the anchor? Are you? Yes? Like? Is it
Speaker 1: is it really beneficial to have that fixed point if
Speaker 1: you can't actually ever get to that fixed point because
Speaker 1: of tides, winds, scope? And then to go back to
Speaker 1: the mechanical conversation, and keep in mind this all was
Speaker 1: brought up while we were standing line to like load
Speaker 1: the plane on the way over here to Hawaii. Um,
Speaker 1: what type of rope do you need? Or line? Do
Speaker 1: you know? I was talking about buying some real shitty
Speaker 1: rope and Cal pointed out, if you can go through
Speaker 1: all the hassle to set an anchor in four ft
Speaker 1: of water? Why would it be shitty rope? Don't you
Speaker 1: want it to be there the next day? What would
Speaker 1: inevitably be a whole day to make this happen? And
Speaker 1: there's an added wrinkle. I don't want to name names,
Speaker 1: but I knew a person who set a chum bag
Speaker 1: and threet of water, and he was under the impression
Speaker 1: it was he was it was illegal to do it,
Speaker 1: so he stapled his. He he stapled his to a
Speaker 1: drift log, which cal pointed out is like one benefit
Speaker 1: of a buoy as others can see it and when
Speaker 1: you hit it, it's soft. So this is not naming names.
Speaker 1: Stable his to a drift log, so that the innocent
Speaker 1: passer by would just think it was a saggy drift
Speaker 1: log sitting barely above the surface. Uh. And then when
Speaker 1: he would anytime he went crabbing, anytime he went shrimping,
Speaker 1: anytime he cleaned fish, he would put it in a
Speaker 1: biodegradable burlap sack. Put a rock in that sack, tie
Speaker 1: it off to the line, and Davy Crockett's locker, What's
Speaker 1: who's that guy? Jones? Locker right down to the bottom.
Speaker 1: It's probably got a nice little pile of rocks down there.
Speaker 1: He's got a little reef and it's full of chump
Speaker 1: Crockett ever see the ocean. That's a good that's a
Speaker 1: good question. I'll after look like that's a question for
Speaker 1: Clay or Buddy Levy. So the whole thing on Crockett
Speaker 1: did Jill the Crockett and Crockett's day as a politician,
Speaker 1: as a congressman, there was two congressmen that got you know,
Speaker 1: you fight like Trump and Hillary. Right, it's tense. Well,
Speaker 1: these two political figures, Crockett's peers, these two political figures,
Speaker 1: it got like the debates got so intense and personal
Speaker 1: that at the end of the election they challenged they
Speaker 1: had they agreed to have a duel, but duels were
Speaker 1: illegal in the state where they lived. So they traveled
Speaker 1: together to another state where it was legal to have
Speaker 1: a duel, where the guy that won the election then
Speaker 1: shot and killed the loser, and people on top about
Speaker 1: how politics is nasty nowadays. Wait, so it wasn't a
Speaker 1: proper duel. It was whoever lost, you got shot, no
Speaker 1: matter what. No, they did the election, so be like
Speaker 1: Trump and Hillary fight, fight, fight, say passed after where
Speaker 1: Trump wins Hillary loses. They then go to another country
Speaker 1: where it's legal. They go to like Afghanistan where it's
Speaker 1: legal to duel. Trump kills Clinton in the duel and
Speaker 1: then comes home and resumes his position. That was Crockett's
Speaker 1: political era. But people talk about how politics has gotten
Speaker 1: too nasty. Yeah, and what was I saying? No, Davy
Speaker 1: Jones locker and we want to get to the ask
Speaker 1: of please write oh and and then and then I
Speaker 1: said this to my brother Danny. I said, but it's
Speaker 1: illegal to set a buoy? And Danny says, is it?
Speaker 1: I feel that we think it's illegal to set a
Speaker 1: boy because of the person with the drift log told
Speaker 1: us that. But they told us a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: The person with the drift log and the salvage business.
Speaker 1: That's a joke. So it's a whole pile of questions
Speaker 1: like can you go out to your favorite spot and
Speaker 1: set at booi in four ft of water in the
Speaker 1: state of Alaska and then leave it there indefinitely? And
Speaker 1: can how much rope? And what's the diameter of your
Speaker 1: circle at the top when you're tied off to it?
Speaker 1: And what type of rope. Yeah, because it's not something
Speaker 1: you want to go re redo every year. And then
Speaker 1: if they do right, and then if they could throw
Speaker 1: this into like do they fill it out into meaning
Speaker 1: I was working on especially when you turned on me. There, man,
Speaker 1: I did not turn on you. You asked me my opinion.
Speaker 1: I was working on the Anchor's good for everyone to
Speaker 1: have opinions, just at the right time. Work on your timing.
Speaker 1: I was working on the anchor system. The next old
Speaker 1: refrigerator or freezer, after you drain all the nasty stuff
Speaker 1: out of it, burn all the stuff out of it. Um,
Speaker 1: I wonder if you could just throw that thing in
Speaker 1: the boat, go out there with some quick dry cement,
Speaker 1: and have that be your anchor. I got the anchor
Speaker 1: of all anchors for this purpose. I got the fridge
Speaker 1: for you. The thing you guys got to think about
Speaker 1: is how you're getting this anchor off the boat? Well,
Speaker 1: because that sucker is heavy. Here's the other question I got. Well, no,
Speaker 1: I got like, I have an actual anchor that I
Speaker 1: want to use for this right now. It's anchor my
Speaker 1: dock and play some one end. But I can replace
Speaker 1: that with a rock. Um. Yeah. The other thing is
Speaker 1: If you let out fot of line that's spooled in
Speaker 1: the bottle of the boat and it gets tangled halfway down,
Speaker 1: you are not happy. So I might run it off
Speaker 1: a spools, run a broomstick through a spool. You take
Speaker 1: your float, right, you got this all calculated out. You
Speaker 1: got the exact amount of rope. You float that float,
Speaker 1: and you let all that rope out, and you got
Speaker 1: your anchor, and you go over your spot and the's
Speaker 1: some bitch is so heavy, it's just gonna drag that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Or you or you take an old skiff that you
Speaker 1: don't want anymore and tie that to it, tow it
Speaker 1: out there with the anchor in the rope coiled nicely
Speaker 1: in it, start piling rocks in it, and then you
Speaker 1: sink that skiff with the anchor, and then at that
Speaker 1: thing is gonna be so many miles away from the
Speaker 1: bull's eye by the time it hits That's true. You
Speaker 1: have to pick a day with little cur There's guys
Speaker 1: that were for the coolest guard that just set anchors. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Part of what's got this time my mind is here
Speaker 1: we we went by bullies. Here there are in thousands
Speaker 1: and thousands of feet of water. Yeah, you talk to
Speaker 1: that somethingit not to demean him. Yeah. And then when
Speaker 1: you guys are fishing these bullies, you know, I know
Speaker 1: when we fish bullies here, the current is usually going
Speaker 1: one way, so you're kind of on that bully and
Speaker 1: you're kind of fishing it one direction for hours. Um,
Speaker 1: So I don't know, like you're asking about, like that
Speaker 1: wind and the tide and the current everything. I wonder
Speaker 1: how often it's switching. Um, if it's switching, you know,
Speaker 1: every hour or whatever. If you can fish it's solid
Speaker 1: for a couple of hours where it's going one direction
Speaker 1: and you don't really have to worry about Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't have a swing, so it's kind of hard to find.
Speaker 1: But as long as you know where the anchor point is,
Speaker 1: you know where the current's going, you can usually find
Speaker 1: that bully to where it's at, and then you fish
Speaker 1: it for those couple hours while the currents, let's say,
Speaker 1: headed south. Then you're just fishing it while it's headed
Speaker 1: south for that day. You're still dropping down your like
Speaker 1: palau bag. So it doesn't really matter like per day
Speaker 1: you'd fish it, you know, if it's heading north the
Speaker 1: next day, you'd be fishing at where it's heading north.
Speaker 1: And oh, we gotta get back on track because this
Speaker 1: all came about with math problems. So the guy wrote
Speaker 1: in about the math, the math around how much lead,
Speaker 1: like how much lead shot is out on the landscape
Speaker 1: in certain places. Now we got two more things. Um
Speaker 1: A doctor wrote and all fired up that I was,
Speaker 1: uh that I was not taking lead poisoning seriously enough.
Speaker 1: I disagree. I was pointing out. I pointed out only
Speaker 1: that he wasn't listening carefully. He's like, no lead is good.
Speaker 1: That's why lead is like zero, Like zero is how
Speaker 1: much lead you should strive for in life. You say
Speaker 1: no lead is good. I was. I was pointing out
Speaker 1: that no one has found elevated lead levels in hunters,
Speaker 1: elevated relative to their peers who are not consuming wild game.
Speaker 1: And I pointed out that when they did this thing
Speaker 1: where they went to like North Dakota and found lifelong
Speaker 1: consumers of wild game killed with lead shot and took
Speaker 1: their lead levels, their lead levels were lower than non
Speaker 1: hunters who live in urban environments, who are getting lead
Speaker 1: from soils contaminated by leading, you know, from all those
Speaker 1: years of leaded gasoline, lead paint no, not industrial lead pollution.
Speaker 1: I was never saying that I think lead is good
Speaker 1: to eat. I was just saying, no one has shown
Speaker 1: a a and like people act like it's there, but
Speaker 1: it's like if it's there, sent it to me. No
Speaker 1: one has shown. No one has definitively shown and not
Speaker 1: even defensively. No one's kind of demonstrated it. Hunters are
Speaker 1: suffering from increased lead levels due to the consumption of
Speaker 1: wild game. It's just it's see what you want about lead.
Speaker 1: That's not a thing. And uh, he did say warmer
Speaker 1: guards and and I imagine you can demonstrate to folks
Speaker 1: that you're serious about lead because you probably, like myself
Speaker 1: as a youth, I used to pack some lead shot
Speaker 1: in your lip while you were re rigging your rods
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And you probably, like myself, have
Speaker 1: quit doing that. Yeah, I keep I would keep my
Speaker 1: split shot fishing. I'd keep some split shot over on
Speaker 1: this side of my cheek and gum, and I'd keep
Speaker 1: my maggots on this bit of my cheek and gum,
Speaker 1: just like everybody. And like we're talking about sat Day
Speaker 1: steel head fishing, because you're like, you get to one hole,
Speaker 1: it's deeper the other hole. Not you just keep a
Speaker 1: couple in your cheek and gum for just so you
Speaker 1: can very quickly like rig for where you're at. Not
Speaker 1: only that, we used to go down we had a
Speaker 1: gun range two miles from our house. We'd ride our
Speaker 1: bikes down to the gun range, put the flag out
Speaker 1: and take a sifter and go sift the burm. For
Speaker 1: non gun range users, typically there's some sort of a
Speaker 1: signal that says folks are down range, which means do
Speaker 1: not shoot right there. Typically down there changing targets, you know.
Speaker 1: But the Ronello boys would put the flag out saying
Speaker 1: do not shoot. We're gonna go because we're sifting the berm.
Speaker 1: We would sift the burn for bullet lead, go home,
Speaker 1: melt the lead in the garage because my dad had
Speaker 1: gotten this all the stuff to pour, and we would
Speaker 1: pour sinkers. And I'm telling you, man, the thing about
Speaker 1: those homemade sinkers made with bullet lead is there's like
Speaker 1: alloys and that stuff, and like you go to the
Speaker 1: store and buy you go to the sporting store and
Speaker 1: by lead and you go to bite it. It's nice
Speaker 1: and soft. In fact, your tooth leaves and mark when
Speaker 1: you bite that lead onto the line, our homemade sinkers,
Speaker 1: when you bit that lead out of the line, you'd
Speaker 1: hear your tea crumble a little bit and you couldn't
Speaker 1: dent that ship. It's like and they didn't seem to
Speaker 1: be as heavy. It's like kind of a weird deal,
Speaker 1: like homemade sinkers. But I would never let my kids
Speaker 1: do that. My brother Danny had a film jar full
Speaker 1: of mercury that we would get out and play with
Speaker 1: that he'd collect. Anytime he run across the thermometer, he'd
Speaker 1: get the mercury out and we would like play with
Speaker 1: Danny's mercury. So like like, I'm not in any way
Speaker 1: like I I never wanted it to be that. I'm
Speaker 1: like downplaying. I'm just saying, you know, I don't I
Speaker 1: wouldn't let me. I don't let my kids do stupid
Speaker 1: stuff that we didn't. We we we just doupid stuff because
Speaker 1: people weren't really aware. My ole man when he was
Speaker 1: in the army, they would give you cigarettes in your
Speaker 1: sea rations. It's like, you know, over time, right, you
Speaker 1: learned things over time. Here's another guy wrote about the
Speaker 1: lead thing. Now, this guy brings up a very valid point,
Speaker 1: cal I need you to be present for this. Oh,
Speaker 1: and doing this to him when you think abou something? Okay.
Speaker 1: To Offerman's point, if is it even possible to bully
Speaker 1: a dead man? Well, there's that famous sign like don't
Speaker 1: speak ill of the dead, but that that's speaking ill
Speaker 1: of the dead. Can you bully the dead man? No? No,
Speaker 1: I feel like because they're not alive, you're certainly not
Speaker 1: going to give him a wedge in his dry pelvis phone.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, it's really got my head's tearing me up, dude,
Speaker 1: final bit of led thing, and this is a bad one.
Speaker 1: This is a tough one. He goes to point out
Speaker 1: all this talk about everyone in the hunting and fishing
Speaker 1: communities switching over to copper lead so bad. You know what,
Speaker 1: Let me give you a fact that would have given
Speaker 1: him a lot of ammunition. But I don't know if
Speaker 1: he's aware of it. If I was this guy right
Speaker 1: in this letter not to demean him, I would have
Speaker 1: concluded how lead ammo is almost exclusively So we toured
Speaker 1: the federal AMMO factory. Guess where all the Federals lead
Speaker 1: comes from? Recycled car batteries. They're lead comes from recycled
Speaker 1: car batteries. That's like a little known fact. You go
Speaker 1: to the Federal plant. It's like all of that lead
Speaker 1: that they're producing an ammunition is not coming out of
Speaker 1: the ground, it's post use coming out of car batteries. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's something like ninety high ninety percentage recycle, which is
Speaker 1: a lot because like a car battery three to five years.
Speaker 1: And it's funny because they don't have when you buy AMMO.
Speaker 1: They don't like like when you buy AMMO from Federal,
Speaker 1: it's not like they're like made from recycled materials. It's
Speaker 1: like no one even knows this. That's where all that
Speaker 1: lead comes from. And then and that's a as we
Speaker 1: are driven boy, A good good word usage here, so
Speaker 1: far as we were driven into the battery age right now,
Speaker 1: that's something that was a big topic of conversation. But
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, isn't is okay, Well, where's the
Speaker 1: copper coming from? That's what I'm getting to, he says,
Speaker 1: So in the sport, you know, like non toxic split
Speaker 1: shot for fishing, right, and he goes. But every time
Speaker 1: there's a big mind that comes up, who's the first
Speaker 1: people to bitch about it? Hunters and anglers. He doesn't
Speaker 1: say it by name, but he's probably speaking to the
Speaker 1: pebble mine and the headwaters of Bristol Bay right copper
Speaker 1: and gold or boundary boundary waters, copper head, copper sulfide mine.
Speaker 1: And we're like, no, no, no, no, no, well that
Speaker 1: is bad and shoot copper. But tell you what, when
Speaker 1: we crossed the border into Mexico, what's sitting right on
Speaker 1: the US Mexico border in Sonora? I don't know copper minds.
Speaker 1: All that loud banging and mix explosions and stuff that
Speaker 1: you hear, those are all copper minds. And as our
Speaker 1: buddy Beaeto put it, said, Beato, what are they minding
Speaker 1: over there? He said, copper for batteries for you? He says,
Speaker 1: how could this is the person that the gentleman that
Speaker 1: wrote in very well worded email. How can we possibly
Speaker 1: maintain any sort of consistency or credibility if we simultaneously
Speaker 1: took the stance of no new copper minds. Where I
Speaker 1: like to hunt and fish and everyone please use copper,
Speaker 1: I suggest if we cannot do both, at least's current
Speaker 1: bullet development technology Stands goes on to say seckle. A
Speaker 1: second and equally important issue, he said, it always gets brushed,
Speaker 1: deside or ignored is the cost. The fact of the
Speaker 1: matter has most led alternative ammunition copper included as expensive.
Speaker 1: If demands suddenly jumped, it would become scarce and as
Speaker 1: a result, even more expensive. What would we accomplish, then,
Speaker 1: is to effectively sideline masses of hunters who either couldn't
Speaker 1: find or couldn't afford enough ammunition to site in two
Speaker 1: or three rifles and have ammunition for their hunts. And
Speaker 1: he pulls as a hypothetical three hunter household. One of
Speaker 1: the things that helped us get through a lead a
Speaker 1: switch from lead with non toxic shot for waterfowl as
Speaker 1: we went to steal. Steel is abundant and still relatively cheap.
Speaker 1: It was attainable for your average hunter, not the case
Speaker 1: of copper. He points out. You're driving more of a
Speaker 1: situation where you have the haves go hunt the have nots, don't.
Speaker 1: He says, he still loves the show. I mean it's
Speaker 1: all it's all all great points, um, I don't the
Speaker 1: absolutism of uh. I think it's taken a little aggressively.
Speaker 1: But he was being absolutist you are driving. It's like, well, no,
Speaker 1: we uh had a good conversation on this very debatable
Speaker 1: topic of copper versus lead, and many of us have
Speaker 1: switched over to copper. But there's I don't believe anybody
Speaker 1: saying you must shoot this. I feel like I'm sort
Speaker 1: of fence sitting on the whole thing. Well, I love
Speaker 1: it for for me, it's it's the raptor thing, Like
Speaker 1: I do. I have a soft heart when it comes
Speaker 1: to that, Like I'm like, oh yeah, if I can
Speaker 1: mitigate killing more animals like that, I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: want to buy catch dead animals that I don't get
Speaker 1: a consume that are dying from secondary lead poisoning by
Speaker 1: shooting a copper bullet. That that works for me. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, you when you say I get it out,
Speaker 1: you're saying you're making a consumer choice. Yes, exactly. And
Speaker 1: that's kind of like what the guests Chris Parrish. Chris
Speaker 1: Parrish was saying. He never came in and said I
Speaker 1: think they should outlaw X, Y and Z. Right now,
Speaker 1: you're saying, as a consumer, make choices all time, and
Speaker 1: there's a I mean, you can still California is just
Speaker 1: like the weird outlier example, because they you know, at
Speaker 1: recreational ranges, authorized ranges, lead lead is still legal for
Speaker 1: recreational shooting at authorized ranges. I don't know that I
Speaker 1: believe um. But in every other stay, you know, you
Speaker 1: you're still go shoot recreational lead at your recreational range
Speaker 1: where it can then be recycled into more lead bullets,
Speaker 1: which is what all those ranges do. You know, periodically
Speaker 1: they harvest their burms and and are able to sell
Speaker 1: it um, which is part to those those places business
Speaker 1: plan um. And then you know, when it comes time
Speaker 1: to hunt, you can make that consumer choice of shooting
Speaker 1: a copper bullet, a handful of copper bullets to make
Speaker 1: sure you're zero, and then your your copper bullets for
Speaker 1: for the actual hunt. You know, when you get into
Speaker 1: the alternatives for shotgun shooting, uh, you're you can spend
Speaker 1: some you can spend a hell of a lot more
Speaker 1: money shooting business. Then then you're gonna shoot copper bullets
Speaker 1: even if you're doing a lot of big game hunting
Speaker 1: during the year. But steals still the very effective and
Speaker 1: less expensive alternative, toxic alternative. Okay, Danny, I'll set it
Speaker 1: up like this. I had because I've driven a lot
Speaker 1: of jankie vehicles, right, and somebody at a parking lot
Speaker 1: came up to me and was harassing me about how
Speaker 1: much oil my vehicles leaking, and I just you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not. I wasn't gonna make confrontation
Speaker 1: with him. I was like, yeah, okay, you know, no
Speaker 1: big deal, I gotta fix out. But the same with
Speaker 1: the lead, right, Like worst lead come from comes from
Speaker 1: the earth, right, and so there the same with oil
Speaker 1: overs putting it back. You know, obviously I'm not dumping
Speaker 1: oil all over. Come on, you're not putting it back
Speaker 1: into the earth and putting it back, Like what's your
Speaker 1: And that start as to say, what's your take on that? Like,
Speaker 1: so obviously I'm not dumping oil all over, right, but
Speaker 1: you get a good watch that slick start to form,
Speaker 1: So obviously that goes like that's bad, right, that just
Speaker 1: goes right to our water source. Um. But like with
Speaker 1: the lead, I was thinking about the lead, it comes
Speaker 1: from the earth. Obviously there's there's issues when it's getting
Speaker 1: processed or whatever. Maybe they're melting it down to make
Speaker 1: these babs. Yeah, there's that effect. But as far as
Speaker 1: just taking lead and putting it back. So about to
Speaker 1: take rattle snake poison and just put it all over
Speaker 1: your food? Am I putting it back into the earth? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, good point. I'm just you know, no, I mean,
Speaker 1: i mean, I'm sorry venom. Yeah, I mean they're making
Speaker 1: it sound like, you know, lead or arsenic. If I
Speaker 1: put arsenic all over your food, put them back in
Speaker 1: the earth, you know. So I think I think it's
Speaker 1: an appropriate line of thinking. Um, it's just, uh, these
Speaker 1: things came from places in the earth that probably were
Speaker 1: not necessarily meant to come to the surface, not on
Speaker 1: your food. They were in the earth, but not on
Speaker 1: your food. Just thrown it out Like that's a good point, definite. Uh,
Speaker 1: Remember how I was saying. I'm like, I'm um, I've
Speaker 1: been accused of being like a lead apologist, and I've
Speaker 1: been accused of being anti lead, But I'm like very
Speaker 1: much like just kind of like exploring the whole area, right,
Speaker 1: I'm exploring it. Another one that I can't that people
Speaker 1: keep writing in about but I can't formulate an opinion on.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna hit you with it. Kel my home state,
Speaker 1: there's there's a Yeah, there's a Michigan National Guard in
Speaker 1: the Michigan's Upper Peninsula. They're looking to double the size
Speaker 1: of UH Camp Grayling, a military base, and to double
Speaker 1: it they need to like annex a bunch of state
Speaker 1: owned land that's currently open to public hunting and fishing.
Speaker 1: People in the up who are losing their you know,
Speaker 1: long time man who would stand to lose their long
Speaker 1: time sort of like ancestral hunting and fishing grounds are pissed.
Speaker 1: They're gonna happens. If it happens to lose accident, they will.
Speaker 1: I think it's very safe to say they will lose
Speaker 1: a certain an amount of access. And and I struggle
Speaker 1: with being Um, I struggle with this one. Then I'll
Speaker 1: tell you the two reasons why I struggle with it. Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm generally uh not generally, I'm like very supportive. I like,
Speaker 1: I like to live in a country with a very
Speaker 1: strong military. Okay, I'm very like. I'm not hawkish, like
Speaker 1: I don't want to go in vade countries for no reason,
Speaker 1: but I'm like hawkish in that I I like want
Speaker 1: and support a powerful military. So there's that, right, And
Speaker 1: there's the other one that I don't think it would
Speaker 1: leave to Like, if this was a how a giant
Speaker 1: housing project, it leads to loss of habitat. But what
Speaker 1: they're talking about isn't leading to like a net loss
Speaker 1: of habitat. They want to use it for training and
Speaker 1: stuff in an area where it's not like they're not
Speaker 1: like destroying the ground from from a habitat perspect Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's hard to make an opinion about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if it were a giant you know megamoguls housing development,
Speaker 1: I would be irate. I would be like because they're
Speaker 1: now it's like gone and and we'll never come back.
Speaker 1: But here it's like it's still like for future generations,
Speaker 1: that patch of ground is still gonna be there functioning
Speaker 1: as an ecosystem. It's still in play, just not open
Speaker 1: as good. Well that's not true, right, you are going
Speaker 1: to lose some access. Um And in this it's a
Speaker 1: perfect conversation point to go with the lead. You know, well,
Speaker 1: but it's recycled type of thing, because it's like you
Speaker 1: have your cake and eat it too. Um, you want
Speaker 1: a big, strong military, but you don't want the military
Speaker 1: terry to have all the space to train. Um And
Speaker 1: I truly don't know the ins and outs of what
Speaker 1: they actually need versus how much they're annexing and all
Speaker 1: that stuff. But they do need a lot of space,
Speaker 1: and they're only closing it because they're only closing it
Speaker 1: when they need it for training. So no one knows
Speaker 1: how much that will be. And game management still stays
Speaker 1: under Michigan DNR. Yes. And if you look at other
Speaker 1: military bases where the public is allowed to hunt, um,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of those examples with lots of big
Speaker 1: you know, big deer, turkeys, bears, all that fun stuff, um,
Speaker 1: And and life kind of goes on, but it's not
Speaker 1: going to go on in the same way that you
Speaker 1: haven't now right. It's there's, um, you know, lots of
Speaker 1: examples of like, oh it's a surprise training day, we
Speaker 1: gotta shut the whole base down, and folks are traveling
Speaker 1: from out of state and tent on hunting where they've
Speaker 1: always hunted, and you know it's like, um, the Griswold
Speaker 1: family vacation. Sorry, folks, parks closed. How do you how
Speaker 1: do you close the entire state of California? Um. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a tricky situation. Um, if there were happening in Montana.
Speaker 1: I would not want it to happen because I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't to lose any weekends, right, And it's it's
Speaker 1: kind of a not in my backyard type of thing.
Speaker 1: State of hy He's got a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of history with the military there is, Yeah, and a
Speaker 1: lot of the land is owned by military. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The first time we came out here to hunt, we
Speaker 1: gotta hunt on this really cool place on Maui and
Speaker 1: guys just a big rancher, cattle rancher, and uh, you're
Speaker 1: walking around all there's shell fragments and and uh fifty
Speaker 1: caliber case sings all over the place, big chunks a
Speaker 1: lead laying out there. And then the first day the
Speaker 1: rancher was like, well, yeah, did you see the crash
Speaker 1: plane out there too? It's like no. But then the
Speaker 1: second day there here's this giant engine laying out in
Speaker 1: the middle of this this field that we came through,
Speaker 1: and chunks of plane pirates and all this stuff, and
Speaker 1: and he could tell there's more to his story about
Speaker 1: how he felt about all that, but it was not good.
Speaker 1: It's like the U. S. Military just comes over here,
Speaker 1: just blows the crap out of our islands. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, times changed too. In the up thing for
Speaker 1: you folks in the up writing us about this too. Uh,
Speaker 1: they're describing what they're gonna be doing is low impact exercises, right,
Speaker 1: and and it is interesting because they need like cyber
Speaker 1: warfare is one of the reasons for the expansion, and
Speaker 1: apparently they need like a big buffer uh from civilization
Speaker 1: to run whatever it is they do with cyber warfare um,
Speaker 1: which ideally doesn't sound like super impactful to the wildlife, habitat, environment,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Uh, And hopefully it won't be closed down
Speaker 1: too much during hunting season if if it does in
Speaker 1: fact happen. The other rub is that it's not like
Speaker 1: a standard lease with the state, so there's no lease
Speaker 1: fee that's coming from the government to the state lands,
Speaker 1: which I thought was was interesting Celtic subject matter XT.
Speaker 1: What you guys as bet Danny and Kenny, what you
Speaker 1: guys as best equipped to tell the story of the
Speaker 1: person that unless you don't want to the person that
Speaker 1: lost their life in the harbor here from a swordfish,
Speaker 1: you probably know it better. Danny, Yeah, I know is
Speaker 1: uh not as nephew but cousin or I don't know
Speaker 1: how they're that. It's a big family. Um. From my understanding,
Speaker 1: a swordfish swam into the to the harbor, and we
Speaker 1: get that like you know, paddling down at Kaho or whatever,
Speaker 1: you'd see Marlin's come into the harbor down there randomly,
Speaker 1: or there'd be big ah he I don't know, they
Speaker 1: just lose their way or get curious. Either way, swordfish
Speaker 1: finds its way into the harbor. From my understanding, they've
Speaker 1: seen it from the surface and they're like, hey right there,
Speaker 1: like what look at this? How rare is that? I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get in there? And I'm a spirit, So you
Speaker 1: got a spirit gone out spirit it. And you know,
Speaker 1: from my understanding, you know how you have your shoot
Speaker 1: line and it spears the fish, and that shoot lines
Speaker 1: attached to either a float line or to his gun. Well,
Speaker 1: he that thing went and wrapped around a worn bowl.
Speaker 1: So then that thing was stuck around a worn bowl
Speaker 1: and just swimming there, and you're thinking like, oh man,
Speaker 1: it's gonna rip off, or I gotta get in there
Speaker 1: and I gotta kill it. So while he was getting
Speaker 1: in there to try and get it, the thing poked him,
Speaker 1: or he shouldn't have poked him, big powerful fish with
Speaker 1: a sword on its face. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've seen those, like broad Bill, the swordfish, they're real
Speaker 1: flat bill, not like the marlin bill. We were talking, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's super show are and uh he got poked in
Speaker 1: the chest and and I was out, so just in
Speaker 1: the in the in the excitement of probably trying to
Speaker 1: get that fish. And I think we all kind of
Speaker 1: get into that state too, of like when something like
Speaker 1: that happening, you're not You're just trying to go off
Speaker 1: instinct and just like there's a lot going on, and
Speaker 1: he probably just thought he had it, He's gonna make
Speaker 1: it happen. Um. But yeah, it's sad. I bring that
Speaker 1: up because we were looking at a story. Um this
Speaker 1: is covered by the Guardian, which is funny because it's
Speaker 1: a European rag that loves American wildlife attack stories. But
Speaker 1: a woman uh in Florida was recently gored by a
Speaker 1: hundred pounds sail fish. They had on they were fighting
Speaker 1: the fish. Fish charged the boat. She's standing by the
Speaker 1: She standing up by the wheel in the wheelhouse, by
Speaker 1: the wheelhouse, fish charged the boat, jump throut of the
Speaker 1: water and paled her she survived them. Oh, I mean
Speaker 1: I could see that. Like you when we saw that
Speaker 1: marlin get hooked up next to Jonah's boat. You've seen
Speaker 1: how that thing was on the surface like that. That's
Speaker 1: how they are when you bring them up to the
Speaker 1: boat too, and they're jumping right next to the boat.
Speaker 1: I've seen a bunch of video of them. I've had
Speaker 1: them jump next to the boat. Never turned towards the boat.
Speaker 1: But it's very nerve racking when you got one that's
Speaker 1: we call it green, but still a lot of life
Speaker 1: left in it. You know how it is leadering those
Speaker 1: fish where here you are, this marlin's got its bill
Speaker 1: facing you, you know, coming in towards you, and you're
Speaker 1: leader and the business and you're trying to get it
Speaker 1: closer and closer, and you're trying to bring that head
Speaker 1: up where you can get a gaff in it or
Speaker 1: unhooked it, whatever you're doing with it. And um, if
Speaker 1: they want, they just give it that little bit of
Speaker 1: a you know, shake with their tail and they're out
Speaker 1: of the water like that. You know, I've seen video
Speaker 1: of it, so um, it could be exciting. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: they got that pokey thing. I mean you've seen that.
Speaker 1: I guess that marlin bill too has a bunch of
Speaker 1: bacteria on it. Except heard like you get you get
Speaker 1: poked by wine. You better get that thing cleaned out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those marlin bills are impressive even dry it out state.
Speaker 1: I was saying that the most time you take like
Speaker 1: a fish part and dry it all out, like loses
Speaker 1: its integrity. Do I mean everything gets like crumbly and
Speaker 1: they kind of decay, But that thing is still like
Speaker 1: you could you could kill somebody that thing, well, they
Speaker 1: made weapons out of it, the Hawiians. Steve, would you
Speaker 1: add that scar from a bill fish to your list
Speaker 1: of bodily attributes that you want to acquire? Not top mine? No, no,
Speaker 1: not like sharp white and grizzy mulin um sixty eight
Speaker 1: miles like reputed to be the fastest fish in the ocean,
Speaker 1: which I thought was the short finn mako. But they're
Speaker 1: saying these suckers can go sixty eight miles per hour sailfish.
Speaker 1: They got that big sale too, and they just flip
Speaker 1: that thing up and they can parachute them around and
Speaker 1: stop on a dime. That it was funny read about
Speaker 1: that that injury and the injury you're talking about as
Speaker 1: we have coming up here. We have an expert ah
Speaker 1: who's an expert archaeologist who studies the Coronado expedition. So
Speaker 1: Coronado was a Spanish conquisador and he had this crazy
Speaker 1: ass adventure where they left New Spain. So they left
Speaker 1: Mexico and this is in fifty and Coronado made it
Speaker 1: all the way up into Kansas in so he made
Speaker 1: it all up all the way up into the Great
Speaker 1: Plains of Kansas, and it was funny. Is if you
Speaker 1: separate Here's here's one of the main things I think
Speaker 1: about interesting about Coronado. The distance that separates Coronado's visit
Speaker 1: to Kansas from Lewis and Clark's visit to the Great
Speaker 1: Plains is the amount of time that separates us sitting
Speaker 1: here right now from the French and Indian War. Crazy.
Speaker 1: You're like European history in the in the interior of
Speaker 1: the country runs deep forty uh So, to bone up
Speaker 1: for this guest we're having on, I'm reading the book
Speaker 1: about Coronado and like the random ways people die. There's
Speaker 1: like one of his lieutenants, one of his officers, they
Speaker 1: had some sheep with them and they had a dog.
Speaker 1: They had a greyhound with him. For some reason, the
Speaker 1: greyhound chase of the sheep one day and the guys
Speaker 1: pissed at the greyhound for crass and the sheep all
Speaker 1: the time. And he rides after it on his horse
Speaker 1: and throws a lance scare the dog off. Okay, the
Speaker 1: lance sticks in the ground, The horse runs, and the
Speaker 1: handle of the lance enters his groin and punctures is
Speaker 1: bladder and he dies some days later. Holy smokes. You know.
Speaker 1: I was at a thought as to we always like
Speaker 1: to think back on on these times of like, oh God,
Speaker 1: how crazy would it have been to be on that trip,
Speaker 1: like all the unknowns and stuff. But I bet at
Speaker 1: that time they'd be just like us, being like, oh
Speaker 1: we have we have GPS, we have a track, we
Speaker 1: have all this stuff. And at that time they were like,
Speaker 1: we have a sex stent, we have a map, like
Speaker 1: we have the best technology out there. We're we're better
Speaker 1: than anybody in the past has ever been. Like high confidence.
Speaker 1: Well get into this. There's a guy. There's a Native
Speaker 1: American who celebrated among his people for having led the
Speaker 1: Coronado Expedition on a wild goose chase where he said,
Speaker 1: oh no, man, there's this amazing like city of gold
Speaker 1: and led them away from where they were harassing his people.
Speaker 1: This is one telling we're getting it all this way
Speaker 1: at the Coronado ex the Cornado expert on when Coronado
Speaker 1: gets up in the Kansas and they're like, this guy
Speaker 1: is full of it. The execute him for having fed
Speaker 1: him false information. Uh, it's just like, here's the other
Speaker 1: thing I'll say about the Coronado expedition, Like if you
Speaker 1: want to get a sense of like where they're at mentally,
Speaker 1: one of the guys on the expedition has a dream
Speaker 1: in which he kills his commander. He has he dreams
Speaker 1: that he kills Coronado and Mary's Coronado, his wife. He
Speaker 1: comes and confesses to Coronado that he had this dream.
Speaker 1: Coronado doesn't punish him, but he's not allowed to continue
Speaker 1: on the expedition because they need to protect the mission.
Speaker 1: I like, I like, I like, it's just so like
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Well, how about the mental
Speaker 1: state too. It's like, yeah, we're an invading army, We're
Speaker 1: stealing from your people, We're giving you communicable diseases. This
Speaker 1: isn't pleasant, but how dare you lie to us? Yeah,
Speaker 1: well no, because they're in their take their take on
Speaker 1: it was this. They were baffled when people didn't go
Speaker 1: along with the program. Their take on it is your
Speaker 1: worries are over. They're kind of like the mob when
Speaker 1: when he would approach tribe, like, your worries are over. Um,
Speaker 1: you now live under the jurisdiction of Spain. But no
Speaker 1: one will ever mess with you ever again. And it's
Speaker 1: not taking it's take it or leave. It's like again
Speaker 1: and if you don't agree, we will mess with you.
Speaker 1: But that's the selling point. Your your concerns are over.
Speaker 1: In order for you to say thank you, we'd like
Speaker 1: you to do x Y and I'm here to bestow
Speaker 1: upon you a great gift. Oh you gotta become Christians. Yeah,
Speaker 1: here's the deal. No one will ever mess with you again.
Speaker 1: Any enemies you have, forget that they exist. You become Christian,
Speaker 1: Your problems are through. And they'd be like, why would
Speaker 1: these people not get on board? Like, look, we're giving
Speaker 1: them more to come. This is fascinating man. And they
Speaker 1: did it all in a bronze hat. That's such like. Uh,
Speaker 1: The Fishing Guide writes in I always wanted to become
Speaker 1: a fishing guide. Becomes a fishing guide. He's he guides
Speaker 1: alligator gar in Houston, Texas, but he has a problem
Speaker 1: of finding dead bodies. They recently found two. He found
Speaker 1: one and his buddy found one. Uh. Dead bodies bound
Speaker 1: up inside recycling bins, dumped in off dumped in the marsh.
Speaker 1: He contacts the police to be like, dude, this is
Speaker 1: kind of stressing me out, and they tell him I
Speaker 1: wouldn't worry about it. It It seems like they were killed
Speaker 1: somewhere else and just dumped there. That's almost like a
Speaker 1: modern art type of thing. He's like, where do I
Speaker 1: draw the line? Put it? Put a body inside a
Speaker 1: recycling man? You have? But here's the thing. If what
Speaker 1: if you come across this guy dumping these recycling bands,
Speaker 1: what he's getting there exactly? Like now, I don't want
Speaker 1: to quit. This has always been my dream, but like,
Speaker 1: how do you like it's hard to work in this environment?
Speaker 1: And he cites a bunch of other like just the
Speaker 1: proximity to cry him when you're guarding there. Last one
Speaker 1: I was talking about. We we were talking about the carp,
Speaker 1: the um asiatic carp species that have joined the European
Speaker 1: invasive carp in certain watersheds. So you we've always said
Speaker 1: we've had common carp here since all over one of
Speaker 1: the primary I don't know, do you guys have Do
Speaker 1: you guys have common carp in your waterways in Hawaiian
Speaker 1: not really Okay, nuded as Alaska. Uh, it's one of
Speaker 1: the top invasive species in the country as common carp
Speaker 1: and then in recent decades it's been going on forever.
Speaker 1: Now big head silver, what else? Yeah, that's the silver
Speaker 1: is like the Asian carp but the right they are, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they're two different species. They these are like like
Speaker 1: a plankton feeding largely orbivorous carp species. Is they brought
Speaker 1: him into the country to clean aquaculture facilities, so they'd
Speaker 1: use them at calfish farms and they turn his carp
Speaker 1: out and these carpe living there and they sucked the
Speaker 1: algae and stuff up and help. But then with flooding
Speaker 1: they all get into the river system. Analysis yea, the
Speaker 1: whole ecological disaster. We covered that and I shared what
Speaker 1: I shared the sentiment of a biologist who said to me,
Speaker 1: I don't see a way out of this if it's
Speaker 1: not a biological if it's not a disease solution, but
Speaker 1: there seems to be limited appetite for introducing a virus
Speaker 1: where they've been able to eradicate fish species and like
Speaker 1: connected bodies of water. It's typically like a three pronged
Speaker 1: approach where they use some mechanical deterrence against the species
Speaker 1: during their their spawning season, so they prevent them from
Speaker 1: going to where they need to go to spawn. You know,
Speaker 1: they're preferred spawning areas, um than they use uh poison
Speaker 1: and then other like yeah um, but the social tolerances
Speaker 1: for all this stuff are pretty low. And then you
Speaker 1: know there's also like significant like by catch, and then
Speaker 1: in these areas that are like super when you wrote
Speaker 1: on a water system, everybody dies. Yeah, but they'll now
Speaker 1: then do it. It's like, um, what was that that
Speaker 1: thing in Vietnam? You gotta burn burn the village to
Speaker 1: save it. They'll remember, like they've had breakouts of non
Speaker 1: natives and they're like this three miles of the river
Speaker 1: is getting cooked, and kill everything in a stretch of
Speaker 1: river just to get the culprit right, trusting that it
Speaker 1: will recover over time, you know yeah yeah, um, so yeah,
Speaker 1: it's and and there's the other mechanicals like traps, gill nets,
Speaker 1: stuff like that, but it's uh and then wrote known
Speaker 1: is obviously like a water soluble um god South American
Speaker 1: root um. And so they have a bunch of models
Speaker 1: as to how much they can put in and then
Speaker 1: at what stages throughout the water column or river system
Speaker 1: that it will dissipate for to be like non lethal,
Speaker 1: because I think at a certain point like fish can recover,
Speaker 1: but it's it's suffocates fish, right, Isn't that how it works? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did you see where me and Yanni went with those
Speaker 1: um those dudes that use the different route. I can't
Speaker 1: read the word they used for its sound like tabasco,
Speaker 1: but it wasn't tabasco. Yeah, it's like it's basco sauce there.
Speaker 1: It's like barbasco. They had a root, they had a plant,
Speaker 1: and they went and they poisoned the fish, but it
Speaker 1: just mostly killed them. And then they go shoot them
Speaker 1: with their bows and then the effects would wear off.
Speaker 1: But while they were mostly dead, they'd be up gulping
Speaker 1: at the surface and they just go out shoot them
Speaker 1: all with their bows and it was like a regular
Speaker 1: fish harvest method. And they go they got the plant
Speaker 1: growing all around their house, all around their village. You know.
Speaker 1: I've done that in rural China, like with these Chinese ladies,
Speaker 1: um who would just go and they would like sing
Speaker 1: songs and a tribe and they would smash up this
Speaker 1: route I forget what it was called. And then they
Speaker 1: would just put it upstream and it would temporarily. What
Speaker 1: they would say is make the fish go to sleep,
Speaker 1: you know, and all the fish would float and we
Speaker 1: would just go catch them with their nets before they'd
Speaker 1: wake up. And then you see them waking up and
Speaker 1: swimming off. What these guys would do to to to
Speaker 1: improve it as they'd be inside channels and the first
Speaker 1: thing they do is build rock walls to slow the
Speaker 1: current down, poison the side channel, shoot what they wanted,
Speaker 1: then open up the barricade to let clean water flush
Speaker 1: through to help resuscitate the fish they didn't want either way.
Speaker 1: Long story short, Australia is poised to do what I said,
Speaker 1: there's little appetite to do. They are considering The Australian
Speaker 1: government is considering using a type of herpes virus as
Speaker 1: a biological agent to reduce the population to carp. Yeah,
Speaker 1: carp herpes is a thing, um, and we recently had
Speaker 1: a breakout here in the in the US, which is
Speaker 1: really interesting. They think it came from domestic goldfish being
Speaker 1: released into waterways. Let that be uh notice for your parents,
Speaker 1: just just say no when your kid wants that old
Speaker 1: nasty goldfish swimming around in the plastic bag at the fair.
Speaker 1: This summer goldfish brought herpes in, that's the theory. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Or flush it down the toilet like we used to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not that, brother, turn it, loosen your water away, or
Speaker 1: just eat it that it's got hurt pies. Let's see it.
Speaker 1: When you're burying your next coffee plant, throw a few
Speaker 1: goldfish in the bottom of it. Yeah. Uh, where do
Speaker 1: we start? Tell me you're fit? Like, what was your
Speaker 1: favorite thing of the days that we spent fish together? Kimmy,
Speaker 1: I already have my um. Oh gosh, well that was
Speaker 1: just one day. I had four highlights of our whole
Speaker 1: little diving trip we just had. There'd be a lot
Speaker 1: of highlots and do you want men to say them?
Speaker 1: I feel like, okay, it would definitely be you getting
Speaker 1: your first mohi um. That was a for sure highlight
Speaker 1: because that mah he was being really tricky at first,
Speaker 1: nice big bull ma. He got me so excited to
Speaker 1: see it there. I haven't seen one like that big
Speaker 1: in a while. They've been showing up small lately, and
Speaker 1: so to see that and having me such a tricky fish,
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like you should just tell a story.
Speaker 1: Now you got to tell because he was so basically, um,
Speaker 1: first time blue water diving for you, right, not really anyway,
Speaker 1: we did like what I guess like borderline that for
Speaker 1: about an hour one time it was like a little
Speaker 1: de two around otherwise and nothing happened. Well, we jump
Speaker 1: in at a buoy, um fad, and I immediately see
Speaker 1: this big bull mahi and um and nothing I can do,
Speaker 1: like we'll bring this mohi into as member. I was
Speaker 1: like during the flash or throwing fish and it was
Speaker 1: just staying on the outskirts. Jimmy keeps the fish talked
Speaker 1: in her sleeve. Yeah what kind of fishes that? That
Speaker 1: was in a coole a scat macro, I believe, but
Speaker 1: she keeps talked in her sleeve. And then you'll look
Speaker 1: like when you're on the so, I mean you're at
Speaker 1: that point in time, we're so like, but all these
Speaker 1: plagics are like, I mean that fish was almost like
Speaker 1: like at the surface, I mean interesting in the surface
Speaker 1: where you gotta go down to almost look over and
Speaker 1: see him. But keeps that fish. And then you see
Speaker 1: a fish way off and one trick is the come
Speaker 1: up and literally throw the fish like a baseball to
Speaker 1: try to land it over yonder and get its attention.
Speaker 1: He would pay attention. I would get their attention with
Speaker 1: the splash, and he kind of turn and look at it,
Speaker 1: but he was not interested in not committing, and so
Speaker 1: that was a bummer. But we decided to do another drift,
Speaker 1: you know, getting it at the same we drifted past
Speaker 1: the buoy. We decided to do it again anyway, and
Speaker 1: this time, as we're setting up, we just see these
Speaker 1: huge pilot whales everywhere, which are pretty impressive, intimidating apex
Speaker 1: predators of the ocean that just love to gobble up ma.
Speaker 1: He he's in tuna and have big old teeth. And I,
Speaker 1: you know, I was like, you guys still want to
Speaker 1: get in, and everyone still wanted to get in, so
Speaker 1: we did. Because it's a famous story where one grabbed
Speaker 1: like they grabbed people now and then oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: people have died because of pilot whales pulling them under
Speaker 1: and toying with them, for sure. Um. But when we
Speaker 1: get in. As soon as we jumped in, UM, you
Speaker 1: didn't see it. But I looked at the buoy from
Speaker 1: far far away, and I could see that same bowl mahi,
Speaker 1: and this time he was doing super duper tight circles
Speaker 1: around that buoy, and I just was like, Oh, he's
Speaker 1: really scared because there's all these pilot whales all over
Speaker 1: and um, and so he's just trying to find shelter.
Speaker 1: He's wrapped around the bowery totally, and it was amazing,
Speaker 1: like he was like like glue to it in a
Speaker 1: circle totally, like just conforming his whole body around this buoy.
Speaker 1: And at the time you just took a nice graceful
Speaker 1: dive to check out what was below you. But I
Speaker 1: saw him so far away. As soon as you even
Speaker 1: just dipped under, he did his last circle and left,
Speaker 1: and I was just like, shoot, he's still going to
Speaker 1: be hard to get, you know. UM. But I I
Speaker 1: turned to Justin Um and I said, I said, you know,
Speaker 1: I just saw this buoy doing these tight circles. I
Speaker 1: think it's scared to pilot whales, and I think it's
Speaker 1: so scared that if we ever dive, we're not going
Speaker 1: to have a chance. But maybe if we could just flow,
Speaker 1: if he ever comes back, if he ever comes back
Speaker 1: and does that again, if we just kind of float
Speaker 1: up to it, maybe we can get it. And Justin's like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, okay. Later he told me he was just
Speaker 1: was thinking like that will never work. Um. But anyway, Steve,
Speaker 1: we see some oh no's, we see that, some other things, um,
Speaker 1: but there's not really too much going on. We're not
Speaker 1: getting close to anything. And maybe after like ten or
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, I just saw the ma he coming back,
Speaker 1: and so I just grabbed Steve and I just said
Speaker 1: that that mom, he's going to go straight to the buoy.
Speaker 1: It's going to start doing these circles around the buoy.
Speaker 1: You cannot dive, but you have to somehow get to
Speaker 1: that buoy. I'm gonna stay back. I don't want too
Speaker 1: much pressure on it. But when you go there, you
Speaker 1: just have to stay on the surface. You have to
Speaker 1: drift your like driftwood. You know, you are not a hunter,
Speaker 1: you are not a pilot whale. You are just a
Speaker 1: piece of wood drifting see how close you can drift
Speaker 1: to this mohi and then shoot it from the surface,
Speaker 1: don't go under and just shoot it. And and to
Speaker 1: just stay back and watch in such such high anticipation
Speaker 1: as you and Justin who was filming right behind you,
Speaker 1: just it was like a quirktoon of you guys, just
Speaker 1: like just like drifting in, kicking whenever the mall he
Speaker 1: turned away from you, not kicking when he was facing you,
Speaker 1: and just that gap that you closed so patiently, so slowly,
Speaker 1: um and then just watching you shoot that mohi. That
Speaker 1: was by far like a huge highlight. That was so cool.
Speaker 1: That was a highlight for me and and uh generous
Speaker 1: of you because I realized, like I don't notice that,
Speaker 1: I don't notice things that good. Yeah, well it's gonna
Speaker 1: take You guys are always like oh there's that, there's that,
Speaker 1: there's that. Yeah. I never get to be the one
Speaker 1: that's like, hey, well it's not you. That you never
Speaker 1: be the one, because my next highlight would be you
Speaker 1: getting your first oh no, Like this is just incredible
Speaker 1: that you got your first mohi and your first own
Speaker 1: on this trip, but you getting your first oh no no,
Speaker 1: that was something that you did on your own, like
Speaker 1: I might have put a backup shot in it, but
Speaker 1: you you sighed on your own. I wasn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: even see it. You know, you saw it. I was
Speaker 1: watching cow. I was watching you down underwater trying to
Speaker 1: take a shot on a little tuna, and I was
Speaker 1: so fixated on you that I didn't see these ohals swimming.
Speaker 1: Steve saw them immediately, did his thing, went after one
Speaker 1: and shot when um and and yeah, I just remember
Speaker 1: looking down and when you came back up, more tuna
Speaker 1: came into I was saying, you know, dive, Steve, dive.
Speaker 1: And I looked up and had no idea where you were.
Speaker 1: You weren't anywhere. I kind of panicked, and I felt
Speaker 1: afraid that I lost you. Little sharky that day. It
Speaker 1: was very sharky. And it's just like, you know, I
Speaker 1: just always try to count my duckies and keep you
Speaker 1: guys all in order, and when when one goes missing,
Speaker 1: it really freaked me out, goes high. Yeah, but Danny
Speaker 1: was on the boat, thank goodness, keeping an eye and
Speaker 1: everybody and just was like Steve's here, and he's on
Speaker 1: and to swim over and see that you shot an
Speaker 1: Oh no, like that was crazy. You did it all
Speaker 1: on your own. It was great and the not easy
Speaker 1: fish to shoot. No, it's not like that's huge, both
Speaker 1: of you. It was awesome. Oh yeah I was. I
Speaker 1: was pumped too, Yeah, yeah, I mean coming it was
Speaker 1: a goat rope from the way outside, coming in sharks
Speaker 1: and running line all over the place and all the stuff,
Speaker 1: and I just I couldn't fathom that that thing made
Speaker 1: it to you whole. Oh yeah, gimme shot one, and
Speaker 1: man it happened fast. Shot a big fish. I don't like,
Speaker 1: maybe more than that. Yeah, it was the same, just
Speaker 1: like shot one and its half of it just vanishing
Speaker 1: that things mouth. Yeah, we had the shark next to us,
Speaker 1: and that shark just be lined straight to you guys,
Speaker 1: and right there I knew, like, oh man, they got
Speaker 1: some action or something's going on. So I picked my
Speaker 1: head up and look, and sure enough, you guys are
Speaker 1: fighting a fish, and that shark just came over. Because
Speaker 1: there's no way from where we were that shark could
Speaker 1: not see what you guys were doing. The visibility of
Speaker 1: this trip was was absolutely staggering, I think as I've
Speaker 1: ever been able to see in the ocean. It's good.
Speaker 1: We were outside of visibility range, so that shar felt something.
Speaker 1: As soon as she shot that fish, that shark was
Speaker 1: like oh boy, yeah, he was like chilled down, you know,
Speaker 1: like lower right hand corner of the visibility spectrum. And
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden he just goes yeah. I
Speaker 1: mean they have those lateral lines designed to just pick
Speaker 1: up vibrations of a fish and distresses. So when I
Speaker 1: shot my own no and it started doing it's, you know,
Speaker 1: dying thing. Um, that shark just closed that gap in
Speaker 1: a matter of seconds. And I always have theories of oh,
Speaker 1: what to do to save your fish I'm getting eaten
Speaker 1: by a shark, But there are sometimes like that where
Speaker 1: there's just nothing you could do. He just committed right
Speaker 1: away and just gobbled that thing. Well we got we
Speaker 1: got a third of it. Yeah, which still Manasashi me.
Speaker 1: These are oceanic white tip sharks, and I know you
Speaker 1: still got more highlights to go, but I want to
Speaker 1: tell you one of my highlights is they travel with
Speaker 1: or the they have pilot fish, yeah, which travel with them.
Speaker 1: They do. It's like a blue striped fish. Yeah, go
Speaker 1: look at shark potols. You see the pilot fish hanging
Speaker 1: out them, and we got to talk about the table,
Speaker 1: like whether they look like tasty little fish. They looked
Speaker 1: very edible. I never thought of it that way until
Speaker 1: Steve said. She took a three pronged spear in shot.
Speaker 1: It was like person walking a dog, and she picked
Speaker 1: off his pilot fish, his pomeranium. She picked off the
Speaker 1: sharks pilot fish. And I don't know if the shark
Speaker 1: would be mad. And then I want to get you
Speaker 1: for having gotten his pilot fish. But he had to
Speaker 1: and he didn't need to carry. He didn't seem to care.
Speaker 1: I want when he said that, he said, what does
Speaker 1: the pilot fish taste like? And I said, I don't know.
Speaker 1: We both just looked at it and we're like, that
Speaker 1: thing looks so tasty, let's see if we can get it.
Speaker 1: It is a weird thing to to say that, Like
Speaker 1: you're impressed by how a shark can move in the water.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, no, no ship, but to witness it
Speaker 1: and in a bunch of different scenarios, they can just
Speaker 1: do whatever they want, even when you're surrounded by like
Speaker 1: very graceful, capable people in the water. Likely it's there
Speaker 1: if they want, if they want you you're getting it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, that's why I like
Speaker 1: not one of those starts want to get after us,
Speaker 1: because if they did, you'd know it. You know, as
Speaker 1: much as we bump them off and stuff like, there
Speaker 1: would be almost nothing you could do if he really
Speaker 1: get serious about it. I know you got more you
Speaker 1: want to highlights, but I just want to have observation. Uh.
Speaker 1: You hear so much about UM human impacts in the
Speaker 1: ocean and like ghost nets. So a ghost that would
Speaker 1: be like like our ghost traps, like abandoned fishing equipment
Speaker 1: that continues to function. UM. Where we trap crabs and
Speaker 1: shrimp in Alaska, for instance, you have to regular traps
Speaker 1: or there's basically a slit in the nylon mesh netting
Speaker 1: and you sew that slit up with cotton twine and
Speaker 1: then the regulation specify the diameter like the thickness of
Speaker 1: the twine and meant to be that if you lose
Speaker 1: or abandon the trap in short order, that cotton twine
Speaker 1: will degrade and the trap will cease to function because
Speaker 1: they're not. She gets in the trap, it dies, It
Speaker 1: baits and more stuff that comes into the trap. It dies.
Speaker 1: Like when you said, a shrimp pot, and shrimp get
Speaker 1: in there, and then octopus gets in there, and then
Speaker 1: like it just continues to kill ship. So we go
Speaker 1: up to a buoy and there is a hunk of
Speaker 1: it looks like cardon, not fishing net. It look like
Speaker 1: a hunk of cargo netting, like a hunk of cargo
Speaker 1: net hung up on the booty chain. And in the
Speaker 1: hunk of cargo net is though, is a big rainbow
Speaker 1: runner gill netted on it. Still the weirdest thing like
Speaker 1: when I saw what I like, I ran through all
Speaker 1: these like what like did someone store it there? Like
Speaker 1: like I couldn't understand, just like alive in the net.
Speaker 1: He somehow jammed his head into a scrap no bigger
Speaker 1: than a half bed sheet of cargo netting hanging off
Speaker 1: a booty chain and he tried to swim through it.
Speaker 1: Then so there was that, Well, I feel like that
Speaker 1: might have happened somewhere, because you think that shark would
Speaker 1: have got after it right like that. That's the second
Speaker 1: thing I thought, Why did the shark not eat the
Speaker 1: fish that stuck in the net. It was like it
Speaker 1: just happened. Then we saw two sharks carrying big leaders
Speaker 1: with hooks. I saw a tuna carrying a leader with
Speaker 1: a hook, and then we saw another shark that had
Speaker 1: gotten himself tangled up in a hunk of rope where
Speaker 1: he was like lassoed by a hunk of rope that
Speaker 1: has had seven ft of barnacle and crusted rope hanging
Speaker 1: off of it, cutting into his skin. One of the
Speaker 1: camera guys grabbed the rope and tried to saw the
Speaker 1: rope off. As soon as you grab the rope, he
Speaker 1: had all that open wound and a suit. That was
Speaker 1: the only thing that you could poke that shark in
Speaker 1: the nose all day long. It wouldn't bother him. The
Speaker 1: one thing that bothered that shark is when you grab
Speaker 1: that rope and then he take off. You couldn't get
Speaker 1: the rope cut off. The rope around like literally like
Speaker 1: a bucking bull at the fair right like so it's
Speaker 1: perfectly like mid section just ahead of the dorsal fan
Speaker 1: with the tag end coming off, like somebody was going
Speaker 1: to straddle the shark behind the dorsal and hang onto
Speaker 1: that thing. You'll absolutely see that shark in the show.
Speaker 1: Would it almost looked like like it that beautiful big
Speaker 1: shark trailing that rope, and it was so symmetrical the
Speaker 1: way it was around him and just laid on him
Speaker 1: and had all that stuff grown on it. It almost
Speaker 1: was like it was like artistic. It looked like shark
Speaker 1: wearing a Yeah, like had like an artistic quality if
Speaker 1: you could, if you could arrest it from everything. It
Speaker 1: was like this kind of like beautiful thing of him
Speaker 1: coming up through the water column trailing that heavy frayed
Speaker 1: But how in the world did he get that on him?
Speaker 1: I still badly wanted to cut that thing off, just
Speaker 1: to be like, cut that thing off. What what is
Speaker 1: a rainbow runner? Is the Hawaiian word? Um? Is it
Speaker 1: part of a I would guess it's a part of
Speaker 1: the mackerel family, would be my guest, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: Also the magerel or jack, but I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know. But they look really similar to the like
Speaker 1: I mean, I was actly like the yellowtail but in California.
Speaker 1: But they have similar things to him, you know, a
Speaker 1: little bit more slender, a little bit more sleek, but
Speaker 1: got that bright orange tail or by yellowtail. And when
Speaker 1: you consider like the vastness of the ocean, and obviously
Speaker 1: like those booties do attract life, and that's why folks
Speaker 1: go out there and fish. But like Jack to come
Speaker 1: across this rainbow runner, which is a jack stuck in
Speaker 1: that cargo net in a place where the sharks were
Speaker 1: looking to eat food. So yeah, I would go with
Speaker 1: the theory that it just happened, But like, what are
Speaker 1: the odds of, like in this giant blue pond, bottomless pond,
Speaker 1: to come across something that just happened on the day
Speaker 1: that you just happened to be there is bizarre to me,
Speaker 1: Like just weird how stuff happens. It was a score.
Speaker 1: It's just like I saw Steve trying to get it
Speaker 1: free and I'm like, we'll stick a stick a knife
Speaker 1: in his brain first, Like yeah, yeah, I wasn't sure
Speaker 1: if you're trying to free m or what. But it's
Speaker 1: a good eating fist. No. I used the word rescue,
Speaker 1: but that wasn't quite the word. That was funny later
Speaker 1: when it was dead and I was about, you're like,
Speaker 1: look at the one we rescued. Hight next highlight it
Speaker 1: was when the crew started fishing and Seth hooked into
Speaker 1: it too, was cranking it up like a champ and
Speaker 1: you weren't giving the gaff up because um, Sam was
Speaker 1: cranking up tuna on the other side, and so you
Speaker 1: needed it for her. But our fish was boat side
Speaker 1: already and we needed a gaff and and I just
Speaker 1: found this little baby gaffs a little handheld like like
Speaker 1: a little captain hook hook. Yeah, not even for a
Speaker 1: teen incher um And was it a metal one yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: And just just got to stick it with that and
Speaker 1: help get it in the boat. That was really exciting,
Speaker 1: Like I just started jumping up and down and clapping. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like frantically looking for a gaff and I
Speaker 1: turned around the fishes in the boat. It was like,
Speaker 1: oh great, there we hit the tuna. Like it was like,
Speaker 1: well anybody can catch tuna type of timing, right, It
Speaker 1: was like bagoes in the water. You wait a minute,
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty rare for it
Speaker 1: to be like that, and amazing for you guys to
Speaker 1: see that they're jumping out of the water too, Like
Speaker 1: that was so fun. Gaff and tune is stressful. So
Speaker 1: so you guys got a long leader and you're and
Speaker 1: you're reel up and eventually get where the leader hits
Speaker 1: the rod tip you can't reel anymore. And then someone
Speaker 1: puts on gloves or not and starts wrapping her hand
Speaker 1: around that leader and bringing the fish up. Danny's telling
Speaker 1: me like, I'll tell you when to gaff it. So
Speaker 1: I'm thinking he's gonna say gaff it when it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, tucker it out, like laying at the surface,
Speaker 1: drag along the side of the boat, and he's you
Speaker 1: can look down and he's down cutting big cookies circles
Speaker 1: and I'm like just chilling, thinking like eventually it'll be
Speaker 1: up here and it'll be like placid, you know, not
Speaker 1: hooking in the boat. And I'm not even kind of ready.
Speaker 1: And I think he's like now, I'm like, oh, I
Speaker 1: didn't know you meant like that. Do you think that gaff?
Speaker 1: And new pulled up? But then we were with the
Speaker 1: dude named Jonah who fishes tuned commercially, and don't I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've seen this move. He gets them on the
Speaker 1: leader and just has a baseball bat and not even
Speaker 1: gaffed it gets it open. Yeah, if you can see,
Speaker 1: it's just cold cock and it stuns it. Yeah, is
Speaker 1: there coming up? You can look at where the hook is,
Speaker 1: so if you know, you've got a good hook placement.
Speaker 1: You got some time, you know, But yeah, put them
Speaker 1: to sleep. Those fish respond to a blow to the
Speaker 1: head like you wish other fish would. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: to blow to the head on one of those is
Speaker 1: like dunzo. Yeah, I feel like it's a bigger fish too,
Speaker 1: and rerecing pretty big bats like they don't, you know,
Speaker 1: move much when you hit them. Hit some small and
Speaker 1: they kind of go with the flow. This thing has
Speaker 1: got some mass behind it. The efficiencies between recreational technique
Speaker 1: and commercial technique, there's there's some big differences there. Like
Speaker 1: Joan is on the side of the boats, uh, cranking
Speaker 1: the thing up, grabbing the leader bat, gaff in the
Speaker 1: boat like onto the next one, and we're over making
Speaker 1: videos and he would like whack it with the bat
Speaker 1: and reach down in his gills pull that stuff out
Speaker 1: with his hand and then pulled in the boat like
Speaker 1: and we're like over there trying to cut it out
Speaker 1: real nice with knives and whatnot. That's one dude. I
Speaker 1: would not want to get punched by man. What do
Speaker 1: you guys call sucker punch in Hawaii false crack. I
Speaker 1: would not want to get false cracked by him man
Speaker 1: false Craig meta bac one. Okay, how many more? Get
Speaker 1: one more highlight? Um, I guess my just be um
Speaker 1: seeing that beautiful ecosystem of everything from bait fish to
Speaker 1: my he's in ono's and shark all underneath just that
Speaker 1: floating barrel we found so so not you know, the
Speaker 1: expected that, not the state buoy, but we just came
Speaker 1: across like a piece of trash basically, um, a white
Speaker 1: plastic floating barrel that didn't even look like it had
Speaker 1: been in the ocean that long and they didn't have
Speaker 1: that much growth on it. But the minute you get
Speaker 1: in the water is just crazy what a universe is
Speaker 1: around it. That was exciting. Someone brought up the obvious
Speaker 1: point that can't be ignored. Who was it that said
Speaker 1: something about, you know everything, plastics in the ocean, plastics
Speaker 1: in the ocean. I think you brought it up. Seth
Speaker 1: brought it up. And you jump in under a plastic
Speaker 1: barrel floating to the ocean and the holy ship, Well,
Speaker 1: how could this be bad? Yeah, it's like this barrels.
Speaker 1: Steve made this comment about these sharks being such jerks,
Speaker 1: and he's like, they don't learn. They repeatedly do the
Speaker 1: same things. And like, one thing that was real interesting
Speaker 1: shark behavior was we we observed these white tips biting
Speaker 1: Danny's flashers, which is like understandable, they're meant to attract fish,
Speaker 1: but the same shark would hit it have a very
Speaker 1: negative reaction, like irritated, like irritated, did not like it, visibly,
Speaker 1: did not like body language, just like yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: like that. Thirty seconds later, he'd come back and try
Speaker 1: it again, you know. And this says Steve, was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're like high school jerks that stuck around town and
Speaker 1: still bully the outside the canvas and bully bully was
Speaker 1: just like god, like, why didn't these sharks just like
Speaker 1: leave the bully and to go do something good with
Speaker 1: their lives instead of just hanging out up being bullies.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do feel like that oceanic white tip
Speaker 1: under that plastic barrow that was the one that left
Speaker 1: and like did something with his life. He was cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The conclusion like, this is it, this is the opposite,
Speaker 1: This is here's the grown up gut sick all the
Speaker 1: ass slapping and went and found his own little place.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and that I mean the sharks really really
Speaker 1: was the top highlight for me, like watching all the
Speaker 1: different behavior, watching watching and move around, and and then
Speaker 1: being like, oh my gosh, you really gotta pay attention
Speaker 1: to these the agro ones. And but then also like
Speaker 1: some of the more beautiful things that I saw, The
Speaker 1: things that are stuck in my head are like the
Speaker 1: bait fish congregating around the sharks, and then then just
Speaker 1: doing these big lazy circles and kind of like half
Speaker 1: spins through the sunlight and stuff was unbelievable, like really
Speaker 1: really amazing. And like those pompano mahi that that the
Speaker 1: cool the laid back shark he was doing something with
Speaker 1: his life was swimming with Like that was just an
Speaker 1: awesome scene to just sit and watch over and over again.
Speaker 1: One of the things I appreciate about the the way
Speaker 1: the oceanic white tips move is you imagine most fish
Speaker 1: when they're like ascending or descending a water column, a
Speaker 1: lot of times they'll do a movement. It's almost like
Speaker 1: someone going up a spiral staircase. Right. They keep there,
Speaker 1: they keep their orientation relative to like the planet, right,
Speaker 1: like his peck fins are down and they'll climb and descend.
Speaker 1: But stay basically upright. But the way those sharks like
Speaker 1: they really are living in a three dimensional space where
Speaker 1: when they're ascending the water column, they're perfectly vertical, Like
Speaker 1: they climb perfectly vertically and they're gliding to something you
Speaker 1: don't see, like you know, you realize when you see
Speaker 1: you're like, not many fish do that do? I mean
Speaker 1: like climb like like totally vertically. They're like they're like
Speaker 1: a person going up a straight ladder, and it's like
Speaker 1: they're just divorced from yeah, like of normal mechanics of
Speaker 1: what you imagine, you know, how things move. And I
Speaker 1: saw that vertical orientation was when they made up their
Speaker 1: mind to go from point A to point right. They're like, huh,
Speaker 1: what is that? Diver? It's such a crazy thing. Like
Speaker 1: I feel like the sharks just add I mean, those
Speaker 1: the bully sharks like just add a whole another like
Speaker 1: layer of kind of like stress in your mind. Do
Speaker 1: you know that you have to kind of deal with
Speaker 1: because they sometimes will get a little aggressive or nippy
Speaker 1: at you and um, and it's just it's one more
Speaker 1: thing that you have to like think about while trying
Speaker 1: to hunt, as if like trying to hold your breath,
Speaker 1: dive down and shoot a tuna. Isn't enough to think about, like,
Speaker 1: then you also have to think about the sharks on
Speaker 1: your back. And it's such a crazy and literally on
Speaker 1: your back. There were there were dives where you couldn't
Speaker 1: divorce the shark from like the outline of the diver,
Speaker 1: and so you can't always just look straight ahead at
Speaker 1: your target because you always kind of have to be
Speaker 1: checking what the shark's doing and if if you have
Speaker 1: to poke it away or whatnot. And that just it
Speaker 1: changes everything. It changes your movement, it changes everything, you know.
Speaker 1: And so it really is like this dance of um
Speaker 1: trying not to care about the sharks to the point
Speaker 1: where you can hunt, but not turning that care off
Speaker 1: so much where you're complacent and going to get yourself
Speaker 1: in trouble. And it really is this weird fine line.
Speaker 1: But it helps to have your buddies like all around
Speaker 1: you poking them off. And that's what I think we
Speaker 1: always had to have trust in. It's like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 1: doing this dive, I'm after this fish. If it's a
Speaker 1: shark about to eat me, somebody's going to poke it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And and and that's that's definite faith because we we
Speaker 1: had situations where there were five divers, six divers in
Speaker 1: the water and everybody essentially in a circled wagon. For me,
Speaker 1: sen poking at the same shark, he's like not getting
Speaker 1: the message that he's not wanted in the circle, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's wild. Yeah, I know that first day, you know,
Speaker 1: Steve it asked what he what I expect to see
Speaker 1: out there, and instead of saying, moll he's on those
Speaker 1: you know, my first thing was sat sharks. And I
Speaker 1: kind of felt bad about that, right because like I
Speaker 1: didn't want to put like any negative spin on it.
Speaker 1: I just knew that we were going to see him
Speaker 1: and that was gonna be like obstacle to overcome just
Speaker 1: getting everbody comfortable with it. And that was and I
Speaker 1: told you guys that, like, hey, first day, first couple
Speaker 1: of days, let's get in the water and just get comfortable,
Speaker 1: especially before we go to some of those spots we
Speaker 1: went to because I knew there'd be more of them.
Speaker 1: Let's just get kind of an idea on how they
Speaker 1: move and stuff. And I mean two to be able
Speaker 1: to relax through that, for you guys is huge because
Speaker 1: I've spent a ton of time with him. Kimmy spent
Speaker 1: a ton of time with them. I don't want to
Speaker 1: say it makes it easier, but it definitely makes it easier,
Speaker 1: you know, because I kind of know what to expect
Speaker 1: a little bit, and you know, you could always have
Speaker 1: that one. But regardless for you guys not having that
Speaker 1: much time with that type of shark and everything, I
Speaker 1: felt like you got you know, I totally it took me,
Speaker 1: like years, I feel like, to like get that comfortable
Speaker 1: with sharks. You know, like at first win, sharks will come.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to leave the situation or if a
Speaker 1: shark took my fish, I was just like, we are
Speaker 1: not getting back in right here, you know. And it
Speaker 1: just it just took like repetition in years and whatnot
Speaker 1: until I was able to develop that comfort of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we can still hunt and bomb belbos together. Um, but
Speaker 1: you guys are just doing it well. I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of your confidence comes from your compadres and in
Speaker 1: the water red it's like, well, these folks were here
Speaker 1: because these folks know what they're doing and this is
Speaker 1: how they behave That's I mean, that's you gotta adapt
Speaker 1: that type of behavior pretty quick, not like Jimmy, Jimmy
Speaker 1: and Danny don't know. They don't seem to know what
Speaker 1: they're doing out here with the with the local wildlife,
Speaker 1: you know. And I try to keep like a reality
Speaker 1: chap too because I have friends that they get real
Speaker 1: complacent with it. So I always in the back of
Speaker 1: my head like, hey, that thing's the real deal, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I said, if that thing wants you, it's it's done.
Speaker 1: So look at the own right the owner, like that
Speaker 1: is a stick of dance muscle, and it was. It
Speaker 1: was vaporized and just in that shakes belly immediately in seconds. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a big spinal column that runs down the middle
Speaker 1: of it. I got one last thing I want to
Speaker 1: say about fishing. Um, we're fighting in a tuna and
Speaker 1: the tuna was pretty played out. It's cut close to
Speaker 1: the boat. And also just and I said, oh, he's
Speaker 1: running for days like that, ain't him? Because yeah, like
Speaker 1: a shark and grab him and just ahead of for
Speaker 1: the depths with him. And I was like oh. And
Speaker 1: then pretty soon the line Kimmy's about to say, I
Speaker 1: should have reeled faster, but I was paying attention and
Speaker 1: I don't know if there was anybody reeling faster on
Speaker 1: the boat for other fish? I mean, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just one of those right, Like it's tiring, you know.
Speaker 1: It's just like when you're reeling that thing in and
Speaker 1: it can be tiring. Yeah, absolutely, but I mean give me,
Speaker 1: Yeah it was fast. I mean it was to the
Speaker 1: boat fast. And I think that was a nice fist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought it wasn't. Yeah, we paid they we paid
Speaker 1: the tax now, yeah, we paid our Yeah. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just curious of what that shark looked like to be
Speaker 1: able to Yeah, and like he said, what a meal?
Speaker 1: You know, if that was that was a forty pounder,
Speaker 1: what a meal? I will say the inner guards of
Speaker 1: the white tips to write, it's like, you know, I
Speaker 1: definitely like get your confidence in playbook from the folks
Speaker 1: that you're swimming with. But I bet I picked up
Speaker 1: the silhouette of silhouette and outline of a white tip
Speaker 1: in my brain a lot faster than a lot of
Speaker 1: the praise species that were after. Like I was, I
Speaker 1: was like way out there, I'm like, oh, I see
Speaker 1: you coming with the white tips. Danny want to close
Speaker 1: the question for you. Uh. We recently had a guest
Speaker 1: on Seth Cantner came on the show and he um
Speaker 1: grew up outside of Cotsbue, was raised in a sod hut,
Speaker 1: living off the land, and he was laughing about their
Speaker 1: perspective on caribou, you know, like in in The Hate
Speaker 1: of Cultures, and the way he was brought up would
Speaker 1: be like if someone gets a caribou, it's was it fat? Right?
Speaker 1: Meaning all they're looking at is the rump? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: he said and then folks like me or like was
Speaker 1: it big? Meaning antlers? Uh, We're going to spend the
Speaker 1: next few days bow hunting for feral sheep ferrel sheep
Speaker 1: in Hawaii? Am I Like? What are your thoughts on
Speaker 1: the fact that I want to get like a lamb?
Speaker 1: I have no problem with that? Is that a normal desire? Ok? So,
Speaker 1: like I don't know if it's a normal desire, because yeah,
Speaker 1: there is that like for us definitely, Yeah, like that
Speaker 1: is for us. It's food, you know, like a lot
Speaker 1: of the hunting idea. I'm not very picky even when
Speaker 1: I go LK hunting and stuff. Um, I'm not very
Speaker 1: picky obviously, right, Like if the opportunities they're cool, but
Speaker 1: especially at home, we're not very picky. It's food, you know,
Speaker 1: we're looking at it. It's like, okay, there, this is
Speaker 1: the grocery store. And sometimes you know, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to say, oh that one's tender or whatever. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: just don't want that much meat either, you know. So
Speaker 1: there's no like, um, there's no stigma against shooting a
Speaker 1: lamb like there would be if you targeted a spotted deer.
Speaker 1: Phone now, and and I can be a little picky
Speaker 1: with it, like the last time I shot a smaller one.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking like, okay, here's an email. Is
Speaker 1: it pregnant? Is it? You know, how old is it?
Speaker 1: And they're like, okay, this is kind of like a
Speaker 1: year ling that's not pregnant, Like this is probably a
Speaker 1: good one I could shoot, you know. So there's a
Speaker 1: little bit of a thought process that goes behind it. Um,
Speaker 1: But I got no problem with that. I think it
Speaker 1: just really helps that. Um, there's such invasive species here
Speaker 1: in Knowwaii, So whether you're going to shoot a little
Speaker 1: access fun or whether you're going to shoot a little
Speaker 1: you know, lamb, like it is also like good for
Speaker 1: the forest that you're doing. So, um, it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: what size, right because it's just like taking one out
Speaker 1: is just like one less of like a very overpopulated species.
Speaker 1: I got a couple of days hunting with a mutual
Speaker 1: friend of these guys, Sean Hashazaki averund Maui, and we
Speaker 1: were walking back to the truck and we got into
Speaker 1: this like very nice, even tall grass meadow and we
Speaker 1: started walking through there there were access deer fawns like
Speaker 1: I am not exaggerating, like jack rabbit size, and they
Speaker 1: just started like popping out of the grass in front
Speaker 1: of us, popping, popping, popping, And I keep hearing Sean
Speaker 1: saying this word behind me, and I'm kind of quasi
Speaker 1: paying attention, and then I finally turned to him and
Speaker 1: he's like tasty. It's like it's tasty. It's tasty. And
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh, okay, got it, and then
Speaker 1: I missed him, didn't get I mean, nobody thinks twice,
Speaker 1: right like they see lamptops on the menu. Nobody thinks twice.
Speaker 1: And it's sad that are our general population kind of
Speaker 1: just a little bit more disconnected from where where their
Speaker 1: food comes from. But yeah, no one thinks slice about
Speaker 1: lamptops on the on the menu. So we brought up
Speaker 1: the age of domestic livestock at slaughter the one thing,
Speaker 1: and I regret it that I shielded my kids from um.
Speaker 1: Not the ian. I shield them from all kinds of
Speaker 1: things when it comes to internet whatever, but the ones
Speaker 1: sort of like natural um food acquisition act right like
Speaker 1: like a like a very human, natural ancestral activity that
Speaker 1: I've shielded my kids from, and I regret it. Was
Speaker 1: slaughtering lamps um. And I was like, man, I thought
Speaker 1: about it. I had my body take him over to
Speaker 1: check out this little pond while they were slaughter in
Speaker 1: these lambs. And then later I'm like many they why not? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean totally, I think I read, but for some
Speaker 1: reason it just like struck me, like like I should
Speaker 1: send them off. And then then I'm like, that was
Speaker 1: chicken ship. I just shot a little ram um like
Speaker 1: a week ago, and I thought about that part in
Speaker 1: your book where you sent the kids offsously didn't have
Speaker 1: to see it, and I was like wondering if I
Speaker 1: was going to traumatize Buddy by bringing back this dead animal.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's cute, fluffy thing and then skinning it and
Speaker 1: taking it apart. But I just went for it, and
Speaker 1: it went't great yeah, he helped me. I mean yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: People asked like, what's the best time to introduce your
Speaker 1: kids to like animal death. Um, I usually say like
Speaker 1: early enough, or they don't they never even really you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Yeah, like it's not like a
Speaker 1: day when all of a sudden, it's just like it's
Speaker 1: just like a part of life. And yeah, why I
Speaker 1: ever have like just have it be ingrained that that's
Speaker 1: like a thing that happens. But yeah, in that case,
Speaker 1: I didn't, And um, yeah, later on kind of question
Speaker 1: my own judgment on it. Yeah, when they're you or
Speaker 1: they don't know any better, right, Like you don't know
Speaker 1: any better. You could be raised and with something that's
Speaker 1: not within someone's other morals, you know, but you don't
Speaker 1: know any better. So there's that time. And then I know,
Speaker 1: with my daughter, you know i'd be I'd be both
Speaker 1: hunting and stuff. But I did try. I just didn't
Speaker 1: want her to be grossed out by it because some
Speaker 1: of that stuff is stink, you know, like you've gutting
Speaker 1: something and you're like, to me, it's even like THO
Speaker 1: thinks to stink. So like as a little kid, you
Speaker 1: know they're gonna be like you gross. But I've taken
Speaker 1: her see hunting when she was kind of old enough
Speaker 1: to understand what. But the goal was always just, hey,
Speaker 1: it's food. It's no big deal, you know, like that's it.
Speaker 1: I didn't try to make a big deal out of it,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't sit there and try explain the whole thing.
Speaker 1: I just kind of let it happen. And she knew
Speaker 1: that I would go hunting and she wouldn't be there
Speaker 1: when I clean it, but then we'd eat it, so
Speaker 1: she knew where it came from. Um. So then when
Speaker 1: when it was the time for her to be there
Speaker 1: cleaning with it. And actually the pig that I served
Speaker 1: you guys that first night, she helped me clean that
Speaker 1: thing too. Um. And yeah, it's just it's just a
Speaker 1: normal part of life. And it's either you teach them
Speaker 1: when they're young enough to where they don't know any better,
Speaker 1: or you just make sure it's the right time, because
Speaker 1: I could see there being a wrong time where they
Speaker 1: get either go stout by it or they're saddened by it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's being a little lamb and they just
Speaker 1: think of these little cartoons baby lambs or something, and
Speaker 1: you're killing them. But your daughter's got a great approach
Speaker 1: to food, though. Man, she cracked me up last night.
Speaker 1: She comes in, starts eating shrimp. It's about a half
Speaker 1: pound of raw tuna. Starts eating Cal's shoulder ducks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's just like no, like no, even like sort of
Speaker 1: part of her brain that would be like the impressive
Speaker 1: part of the ducks too. You gotta point out it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: this one's fishy. But then she came back and tried
Speaker 1: a different duck, which I mean for even adults. Is
Speaker 1: the reason it's fishy as well as Cal slathered in
Speaker 1: oyster sauce. Yeah, well she you know it tastes like oysters.
Speaker 1: Don't play the duck that's Callian's Giant Boston. Steve and
Speaker 1: I both went into panic mode. It's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: don't imprint the duck is like this this particulars and
Speaker 1: we never like when she was younger, and my wife's
Speaker 1: a big part of this is that she never got
Speaker 1: any special meals, you know, whatever we're making, no matter
Speaker 1: how like obscure it was or weird flavors. She never
Speaker 1: got no map cheese, she never got no chicken nuggets,
Speaker 1: none of that either. Eating what we're eating for dinner.
Speaker 1: You're not eating dude. Man. That's if I had one
Speaker 1: like that is my primary parenting suggestion. If I could
Speaker 1: be so audacious as to have parenting suggestions, it was hard.
Speaker 1: Don't fall into the trap and making separate ship at
Speaker 1: that time. Yeah, and there is stuff like you gotta be,
Speaker 1: you gotta understand like something everybody has it on personality.
Speaker 1: So some stuff she just doesn't like. So it's like
Speaker 1: that's all good. Don't eat that. You know, it's no
Speaker 1: good deal to try it, but you don't have to
Speaker 1: eat it, you know what we call it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: she'll eat. I mean when she's younger, she she eat
Speaker 1: raw onions, just like a piece of raw onions. Whatever.
Speaker 1: She's a she's has like a super good palette. Like
Speaker 1: you can give her something, she'll tell you what's in
Speaker 1: it and oh, buddy, mine this is good clothes, good
Speaker 1: way to close and you know, ben, oh sorry, one more,
Speaker 1: one more thing here. Danny's daughter just had her twelfth
Speaker 1: birthday and her great grandma rolls up to the house
Speaker 1: and you know, like in your standard like birthday bag,
Speaker 1: and Zadie looks inside and she's just like super excited.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh pulls out two mangoes, two mangoes from
Speaker 1: grandma's tree for twelve birthday and she is just like
Speaker 1: was overjoyed. Oh yeah, And I was just like about
Speaker 1: that because my old man he's talking about like growing
Speaker 1: up real poor, and he would say that for Christmas,
Speaker 1: He's like, you would get an apple or an orange,
Speaker 1: and it was a big deal. That's awesome to get
Speaker 1: an apple or in orange, especially in orange in December.
Speaker 1: Not an orange game station and an orange. It was
Speaker 1: a real treat in December. It would be like, my goodness,
Speaker 1: what are they what do they come up with next?
Speaker 1: What was I gonna say, You're really gonna close with something?
Speaker 1: Um that was gonna be really compelling and I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what it was. Right. So he's been on the
Speaker 1: show Ben benyon um Uh Texican. He's a land manager,
Speaker 1: commercial hog trapper. He fattens a pig every year from
Speaker 1: the family's table scraps. That's what he fattens it on.
Speaker 1: And we were about what a good idea that was,
Speaker 1: But then we talked about how it would change your
Speaker 1: attitude about waste because your kids would be like you,
Speaker 1: I really got to finish this. And then you'd be like,
Speaker 1: why I could give it to that pig fatting them up,
Speaker 1: and you'd become more permissive. So it's like a dangerous
Speaker 1: area to be in. Man, And I had yeah, I
Speaker 1: had brought up the fact that my mom and stepdad,
Speaker 1: you know, big beef family, their appetites getting keep getting smaller,
Speaker 1: but they're weekly giant steaks stays the same size, and
Speaker 1: the dogs keep getting fatter. All everybody, thanks for joining
Speaker 1: Stay tune, Will Fillion on our on our feral sheep
Speaker 1: hunt hunting livestock in Hawaii, which is fun. Yeah, turning
Speaker 1: to livestock into Yeah, they're pretty wild. I mean they'll
Speaker 1: run from you just like any other animal. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: definitely man. Yeah, anybody anybody's metaphorical agnols that they figure
Speaker 1: it out? Oh yeah, all right, thanks everybody,