WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: George Benson 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.080 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:13.480 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I'm your 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.560 host Questlove. We have Teams Supreme with us. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:18.720 Uh byya. How are you today? 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:20.360 Trying not to shake? Kind to shake? 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:20.960 Really excited? 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:22.439 I'm really excited. Yeah. 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.759 Let me let me just add that this is the 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:27.479 first show on which I'm acknowledging that we actually have 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.440 a YouTube page, and should we remind our listeners that 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.040 you know you can watch quest Love Supreme. 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:34.960 You should watch it so you can see the beauty 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.080 of this is man. Yes, and I'm not talking about Questlove. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.160 There you go exactly. Of course, we know you're talking 0:00:40.400 --> 0:00:41.320 about our guests. 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:45.080 Bill. What's up? Broh, hey man, It's good to see. 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:46.920 It's good to see everybody. I'm excited to be here. 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.680 This is the mature excited because it is sir. Can 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:52.560 see what's up? Bro? Good share everybody. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.560 Yeah, very excited. I'm feeling beyond the blue horizon. That's 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:58.200 how I can describe my feelings. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.720 There you go, There you go. Yeah, this is going 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:01.560 to be a quickie. 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.000 I' gonna try and knock out sixty years worth of 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:06.200 magic inside of an hour. 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.679 So let's see if this goes way one could do it, 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:11.240 it's us let's go. Yes, of course, here we go. 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:15.560 I will say that you know it's been about we 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.080 last spoke like a month ago, and we couldn't ask 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:21.160 for a better way to come back with Today's Guests. 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:25.640 And Today's Guest released his first solo album sixty years ago. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.039 Our guest today has won ten Grammys, he has topped 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.120 the charts. He's collaborated with so many legends. I mean 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:37.240 he's legendary himself. But of course, uh name it played, 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:41.800 Miles Davis, Stevie Wonder, Quincy Jones, Herbie Hancott, and recently 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.400 he's released or kind of re released, although it wasn't 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.640 officially released. I'd like to get the story behind how 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:52.440 do you have a lost album in the archives? 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:54.160 But dreams do come true? 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.320 And it came from his archive, and we are very 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:06.120 excited to have be incomparable Pittsburgh's own Yen's Yen's Power, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:08.640 George Benson's A Quest Love Supreme. 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:11.960 Yeah, how you you know what? 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.560 Every My mom's from Pittsburgh, and every time I meet 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.720 someone from Pittsburgh, I try to catch. 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.120 Them saying the word YenS. 0:02:21.760 --> 0:02:24.360 Are you that deep of a Pittsburgh or your your 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.000 you don't YenS is not in your vocabulary. 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:30.639 Oh that's okay. I've heard it all my life, but 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.640 now that I'm out here in the Midwest, that would 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:35.080 be as common as breathing. 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.840 Oh really, okay, well it's good to have you. Wait, 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.239 can you explain to me how far in the archives 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.560 was this album and what was the idea behind releasing it? 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.720 Well many years ago, after having so much success in 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:57.680 the music business, I said, what haven't I done? And 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.640 I thought of something that I always wanted to do, 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:07.200 to work with a symphony orchestra, A person who conducted 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:11.520 symphony orchestras for a long time, a person who's got 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.600 great control of the music and the musicians, who's very 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:19.080 comfortable with that situation. There's no better place than London 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.000 and the London Symphony Orchestra. But one thing was missing. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.400 I had a lot of arrangers I had worked with 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.240 over the years. All of them were very competent and 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.120 very good at what they did. So I went to 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:35.880 Quincy Jones and I said, Quincy, who is the baddest 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:38.280 cat on the planet right now? Because you know, we 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:43.120 lost a few people. He said, Josh, let me tell 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:47.840 you man, the baddest cat in the world. There's two names, 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.760 he said. One of them is Robert Farning. I said, wow, 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.400 and where's he? He said, well, he's somewhere in London, 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.480 he said, but that's the cat I recommend. So I 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.839 went over to London and I found a guy who 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:04.160 was one of his best friends, and he introduced me 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.600 to him. And it went by so fast because the 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.400 man is an expert writing music and conducting orchestra. Was 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:16.080 like breathing with him. Okay, So we got together and 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:18.279 I told him what I wanted to do. I wasn't sure, 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.359 so I picked a lot of things, you know, some 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.640 popular things because I didn't want to go straight classic 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:30.000 orchestra and just try to be Frank Sinatra. We agreed 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:32.159 on some things. Next thing I know, I was in 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.160 the studio standing next to him, getting ready to do 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:40.719 my part, and the orchestra started playing and I said, 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:46.640 oh boy, oh, I'm not gonna be able to do that. 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.080 I never heard anything like that. Eighty six pieces, all 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.560 eighty seven pieces of the London Symphony Orchestra and the 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.159 greatest arranger in the world and his arrangements were so 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:04.560 magnificent I couldn't even speak. So I said, maybe I'll 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.080 just sit and listen to the music, take in the environment. 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.839 And I did that for a couple of days. He 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.880 did seventeen songs. He may have been two three days. 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:18.960 I took that stuff home to back to America, to 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.680 New York, and I just listened and I said, well, 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.440 maybe I can do this song, maybe I can do 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.479 this one. Now I have to work on this. This 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.320 is magnificent. I said, no, I better not try this. 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:39.320 So between me and the record company, we had an agreement. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.760 We were not going to put it out at that time. Okay, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.160 next thing I know, we put it in a warehouse 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.880 and forgot all about it. During that time, mister Farning 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:55.680 passed away and I was still hearing bits and pieces 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:57.440 of the music, and every time I heard it, I said, man, 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.840 I gotta find this music and put it back together. 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:06.520 But I never did until recently. I had left Warner Brothers. 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:09.440 I was with them for about twenty one years with 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.680 a lot of success. So I left the company and 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.240 started doing bits and pieces with different record companies, and 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:18.040 I asked some success there too. But now I went 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:20.200 back to Warners. I said, well, since I'm getting ready 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.400 to retire, my greatest desire would be to do another 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.239 record for Warners because they got all my good stuff 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.800 and I want this to go in with that. So 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:37.320 I asked my secretary to arrange a meeting with me 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.000 and the executives over there, and we had a great meeting. 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:42.960 He heard the music and said, wow, we got to 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:47.560 put this out and that was fantastic. There's a lot 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.560 more to it, but I think you got some other 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:51.000 questions you might want to ask. 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.120 We're nerds Paradise, so you're right now giving us catnip. 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.240 I love when a plan like that comes together, like 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:03.200 I love when lost albums and lost projects are finalized. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.960 And I'm glad that you know you had completion for 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.960 our fans that listen to the show that are music heads. 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:13.960 You can recall when it took Brian Wilson like fifty 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.480 years to finish the Smile record. 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:17.400 Wow. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.440 Yeah, so I'm glad you finished it. Wait. 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.840 I have a question, though, so are you saying that 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.000 this is the largest orchestra you've ever worked with? 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.880 I think so because I work with the New York 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:34.920 Symphony Orchestra, Los Angeles Symphony Orchestra, Chicago'symphony Orchestra, the spurg 0:07:34.960 --> 0:07:38.960 Symphony Orchestra. That might have been a full orchestra. Maybe 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.360 it was eighty seven pieces. Maybe I've done that too, So. 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:42.840 I have a question. 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.040 I want to jump ahead too far on the timeline, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:49.600 but I gotta know. For me, one of my favorite 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:58.200 intros of all time is the first fifteen seconds of Breazon. 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.360 Just the way that that like to me, the sound 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:08.560 of happiness and safety and like whatever, Like when I 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.600 think of like a good fuzzy memory, that song is 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:16.080 the soundtrack when I think of, like, you know, it's 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.000 something simple, you think, I mean, it could be going 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:20.640 to an amusement park or playing tag or whatever. But 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.000 for me, but in my mind, that was like at 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:30.040 least a fifty piece orchestra. Do you recall like how 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.960 big the orchestra was for the Breezing project. 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.920 No, because that was a sweetening session. Those were were 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:42.720 put on after the recordings got it, okay, But it 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:48.840 was an incredible, incredible situation that happened then. Okay. I 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:54.680 had a great band full of young, passionate, expert, very 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.559 creative young musicians, and we were all excited because we 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.200 hadn't been working together, you know, and we practiced all 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:04.240 the time, at least three days a week when we 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.880 were on the road, with practice every day. So when 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.800 we did a gig, actually the gig was so easy 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:14.040 after because the rehearsals was so intense, the gig was 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:18.520 super easy. And there was a situation that happened. People 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:23.280 started calling us to open for superstars, and my band 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:26.959 was not known yet. I had somewhat of a reputation 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:31.040 but no hit records yet. So whenever they called us 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:35.920 to open for somebody, half of the audience left when 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.160 my show was finished, and I remember I'm the opening act, 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.880 so I began to notice that, and they said, George, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.000 too bad, we're not you know that we don't have 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.600 a hit record. That's the only thing we needed. So 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:53.199 through this man, Tommy Lapuma, who had heard me sing 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.960 five years ago before this record was released, he said 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.040 he couldn't understand why record companies were not using my voice. 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:05.160 So I selected him to be my producer at Warner Brothers, 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:07.800 whom I had just signed to contact with, and he 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:09.520 came up with the song dis Masquerade. 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.199 That's the first time your vocals were recorded with Macarade. 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.840 Well, that's the first time we had anything meaningful, and 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:18.280 the rest of them nobody paid my voice any attention. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.160 Even my own manager said, George, you're one of the 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.280 world's best guitar player, but you ain't no singer. And 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.480 I said to him, you know, I wasn't insulted because 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:32.640 I had given up singing many years before. And I said, 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.360 you know, it's strange that we could listen to the 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.040 chipmunks and give them a work and give them a hearing, 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.760 but you won't give me one. It won't give me 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:47.240 a chance. And so but Tommy Lapuma found the right arranger, 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.800 which is a consistent what you were talking about earlier, 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:52.160 Klaus Augermann. 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:53.800 Yes, absolutely. 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.559 I remember Tommy Lapuma coming to me asked me, said George, 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:01.560 what do you think about Klaus Ogerman doing the arrangements 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:04.520 for your new album. I had heard some stuff he 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.800 had done earlier, and I said, yeah, that's the man. 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:13.559 And so he went to London, got kicked out of 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:18.319 the studio. You didn't book enough time, and so they 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.920 went to finish the album in Germany. So you had 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:26.160 two different oysters on this on this album, but the 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:31.840 same same arranger Klaus Owen. He sent me the test pressings. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.600 I heard that orchestra. I said, wow, these guys said, 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.480 put a tuck seedo on me. Man, the dressed me 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:42.280 right up. And at first I didn't particularly care that 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.560 much for this masquerade. To me, it was just another vocal, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.760 you know, and nicely done. I liked what the band did. 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:50.720 We only had one take on it. By the way, 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:55.679 what only there's only one take on that song? Because 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.439 Tommy Lapoom, after saying he loved he wanted to hear 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:02.319 me sing on the record. The instrumentals were going so good, 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.599 you know, with breezing and quite a few others, he said, no, 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:09.359 I'm not gonna put a vocal on this alvee. I said, man, 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.160 you made me learn this crazy song. I called it 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.280 a crazy song. I said, man, let's recall it at 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.040 least one time. So they put up a very funky 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:24.199 microphone something people never sing in. They use them talk programs, 0:12:24.200 --> 0:12:27.920 you know, one of them long microphones, and you will 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:32.200 see on the Johnny Carson Show. And so when I 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.760 heard it back, I said, it doesn't sound that bad, 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:40.359 except I don't like the mid Rangers and the great engineer. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.959 He turned the button knocked some of the low end. 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:49.640 I said, oh, that's better. Do it again. He did 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.959 one more click click. I said that's even better. He said, 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.400 we gonna stop right there. He said, if I do 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.840 it one more time, you'll sound like Mickey Mouse. I said, 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.760 this a leave it there. Tommy Lpuma ran out of 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.280 the studio and ran and broke up a meeting they 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:09.839 were having at at Warner Brothers. The big wigs were 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:13.080 at this long oval shaped table talking about money, you know, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.800 and he took all of his recording equipment over because 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:21.200 he never does any playback without his own stuff. So 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:25.160 he set up the recording. He said, no, this meeting 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.320 is over. He's telling the big the money guys, this 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:33.080 meeting is over. You must you gotta hear this record. 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.600 So he played this Masquerade and he said, well wait 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:40.560 a minute, man, who is that who's singing? And they said, 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:44.240 he said George Benson And they said, but I thought 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.599 he was a gutsire player. He said, well yeah, but 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:52.240 he also sings. So he played the record and they said, well, 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.960 we're gonna get this now. This was before they put 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:59.520 the orchestra on. Wow, okay, he said, I'm not finished 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:01.000 with it. Yet you say, I got work to do 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.960 on this record, and I didn't know he was going 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:05.360 to do all of this. I didn't know how he 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.520 was going to get it dumb, but when he sent 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.640 me a test pressing, it was hard to believe that 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.960 it was me, all dressed up and with this fabulous 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:17.200 orchestra with great songs, one of the baddest bands in 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:21.760 the country. These young boys were energetic and fresh and 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.320 very creative. The album came out. I we'll talk about 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.840 that what happened later with that, but the album was 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:30.640 a monster. 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.440 I just want to know on Maskuarade where your mind 0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:37.600 was when you started the song, Like when you started 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.440 it the way you did with I guess I would 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:41.920 say you were scatting, but you weren't, and you were 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.360 just doing the guitar parts right like when you first started. 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.840 I think they call it legato. I forget the word 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:53.800 they use for that. Harvey Mason one of the world's 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.080 greatest drummers, and he was young and energetic then still 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.080 going strong now he always is. I said, all right, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.800 Harvey counted off, and he started counting one, two, and 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.800 I said, oh, hold it, hold it right there, I said, hooray, 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.840 play these changes, and I played the changes for him 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.680 and he I said, and uh, loosen it up. We're 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:19.200 gonna leave We're gonna play legato, no rhythm, I said. 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.080 And then Harvey count the time off. So we played it. 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:29.240 Play those things, dude. I asked Tommy Lapooma, leave the 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.000 mic up, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna do something with 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:36.880 the improvisations in the beginning and in the middle, okay, 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:41.000 And he uh, he said, okay. He didn't have much 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.720 confidence in it because he was gonna throw the record 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.960 out anyway. He had made up in his mind that 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.360 the instrumentals were too great to a sacrifice to one vocal. 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:54.480 So uh, they did that great intro, and that young 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.200 boy or the young man at the time, he was 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.680 like in his early twenties, and he was fresh in 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.960 the band. He had just joined the band team. Oh 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.800 you mean a gray doubt though, And I'm glad you 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:11.800 mentioned that, because there was a great thing about those 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:16.480 two playing together. But Hora did that intro and played 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:21.000 that semi classical accompaniment behind my vocal, which gave it 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:25.920 a whole new, fresh approach. And Will did it one time. 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.800 M and Tommy Lupuma said to me, George, we could 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:31.760 be here all night. It'll never get better than that. 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.720 I said, I think you're right. So I left it alone. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.440 And here comes Bobby Womack getting ready to record reason 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.160 with me because I begged that he come to the 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.480 studio and give me something fresh to play on the record. 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.000 And he came in the studio and he said, hey, 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.840 man during the playback, who in the world? And he 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.280 didn't use the word world. He has had an age 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:59.960 on it, right right, right, right right, Who got a record? 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.560 He got a force like that? Tell me the boomer saying, 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.760 that's George Benson. Man, he said, but I thought he 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.800 George Benson, this guitar player he said yeah, but he 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:15.919 also and that was the beginning. It let us know 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:17.840 that this record was going to be something special. 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:29.560 I remember in my dad's band, musicians arguing the first 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:32.840 time I heard musicians sort of having like kind of 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:37.680 a heated debate. My dad's bass player would have put 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:42.760 his entire life in saying that this masquerade was Donnie Hathaway. 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:48.080 He's like, nah, man, that's Donnie Hathaway. And this is 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.240 the first time I'm hearing of you. And I remember 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.760 my dad's sax player, Like, no, man, I'm telling you 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:56.960 this George Benson, George Benson. 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:58.720 The guitar player. Now, man, this is Donnie Hathaway. 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.400 And they were just like that was the first time 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:04.840 I seen like almost It wasn't pugilistic, but it was 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.200 like almost an argument brewing. Like of course they had 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:13.159 other history of tension, but I definitely remember because I 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.600 was under the impression that that was Donnie Hathaway singing. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.600 And that argument lasted for like almost ten minutes and 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.879 got really heated. So I always wanted to know that. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.320 That's another thing I found out maybe two years ago. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:34.439 I was not aware that Bobby Womack had written Breezing. 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:36.960 How did you know about that song to even ask 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:38.480 him for it? 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:42.159 It's another incredible story we're here for. I heard the 0:18:42.160 --> 0:18:46.760 original version of it. The original version was by Goborzabo 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.160 and he was from Hungary. I remember when he first 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:55.120 came to the United States during the Hungarian Revolution in 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:59.080 the mid fifties, and he played with Chico Hamilton's band 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.639 that was a great jazz ensemble. So I heard them 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.159 play live when I was a kid, that was a teenager. 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:13.320 And then this record came out reason it was super funky. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.399 I mean, it was really a unique record because he 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.000 played folk music basically, but he wanted to be a 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:25.760 jazz player. The ironic thing is my piano player was 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.960 like that about Argentine where he came from. He wanted 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:32.560 to be a jazz player, but he played Argentine folk 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.760 music when he grew up. So they were adding that 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:40.560 kind of romantic feeling to their jazz, which gave it 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:44.920 a unique flavor. So I would never stop catch from 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:47.159 being who they are. I didn't force them to be 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.000 who I wanted them to be. I let them be 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.520 who they are, and that works better. I learned that 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.520 from Miles Davis. Don't tell them what to play or 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.159 how to play it, just let them be themselves. So anyway, 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.560 I never thought about me playing that song because I 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.280 never thought anybody could come up to that that vibe 0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.439 they had on that record. And actually the song was 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:12.520 written by both men, okay, written by Goboy's a bo 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:18.960 and Bobby Woomack and Giboar. He didn't want to have 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:20.480 nothing to do with it because he didn't care about 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:25.080 things like that. He had a little problem, some chemical problems, 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:27.760 and so he didn't care about things like that, but 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:32.359 that record he would have made a fortune like Bobby 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:35.399 Womack did. And so that's how it got off the ground. 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:38.240 And when tell me Lapuma asked me to record it, 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.280 I said, absolutely not. I'm not gonna make that record. 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.720 He said why not? I said, man, that's not me. Man. 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:46.600 People have been trying to get me to record it 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:48.800 or to play it live and I wouldn't do it. 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.439 Almost got into rumbles with people, you know, several times. 0:20:53.800 --> 0:20:55.440 So when he asked me to do it, I said, oh, 0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:01.840 here it comes again. And then I woke up. I've 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.640 had to do this many times in my career. This 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:08.760 was one of the times where it worked beautifully. I said, Tommy, 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:11.760 if you can get Bobby Womack to come to the studio, 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.080 maybe he can add something to the record that's not there. 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:17.800 Maybe he can help do something different to make the record, 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.440 give it another twist. So he called Bobby and that's 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.680 when Bobby entered into the studio, listening to the playback 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.480 of this Masquerade and asking who it was. Now it 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.600 was his turn. He said, there was always something I 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:33.280 wanted to put on this record, and I didn't get 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.200 a chance to do it. I said, what's that man, 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:44.919 He said, do it because that's what was not on 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:46.080 the original recording. 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:46.560 Right. 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:49.399 And even though I don't think my version is as 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.639 good as the original recording, I like it better because 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.359 it's another twist to this and it made it sound 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:59.960 more contemporary. So that that was the difference between that version, 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:01.320 and that's how they got off the ground. 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:06.960 The seventies were very peculiar time for jazz artists. 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:09.560 You know, after kind of. 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:13.199 Like a twenty year let's say between nineteen forty and 0:22:14.000 --> 0:22:18.119 all right, let's say thirty years between nineteen forty nineteen seventy, 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.159 there was this like serious jazz movement. Of course, you know, 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.520 once certain figures in the art form were sort of 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.480 stretching the boundaries with you know, Coltrane stretching the vocabulary 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:32.359 and what Miles was doing and whatnot. However, I'm always 0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:35.120 curious and I always ask people that were like serious, 0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:39.200 because you know, I had to sort of work backwards. 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:42.679 It's because of hip hop that I realized how serious 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:45.360 of a jazz artist you were, because you know, by 0:22:45.400 --> 0:22:47.520 the time I discovered you, you were already. 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:48.800 Singing, so I knew you as a singer. 0:22:49.359 --> 0:22:51.399 But it wasn't until hip hop sampling that I was like, 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:53.639 oh my god, Like George Benson is one of the 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:57.680 greatest jazz guitars of all time. But let me ask 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:02.320 you when it came to the transition of doing pop music, 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:06.919 and it's not just you, James m. Toomey, Raggie, Lucas 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:11.440 Narratimichael Walden, like a lot of these serious musician cats 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:15.679 in the mid seventies sort of made this decision to 0:23:15.880 --> 0:23:19.760 migrate to not even just soul music, but like to 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:24.479 pop music. So at the time, did you have any 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.480 trepidation whatsoever of like, wait a minute, I'm a serious 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:31.640 jazz artist and now you want me to sing pop? 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:35.119 Like were you worried at all about like if Downbeat 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:38.280 magazine was going to roast you or for going pop 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:40.560 or whatnot? Like was that even a concern? 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:45.080 It was a very trying time for a lot of musicians, 0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:47.320 the ones you mentioned, the cats I worked with in 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:51.359