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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

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Speaker 2: Grammy winning mix engineer Michael Brower talks about the art

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Speaker 2: of engineering, his studio secret and what.

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Speaker 3: Is this like working with artists such.

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Speaker 2: As Coldplay, Luther and Vandross, Aretha Franklin, Grace Jones, and Moore.

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Speaker 2: This was episode fifty six from November one, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 4: S Bramo, Son Son Supremo, Roll Call Subramo, Son Son Supremo,

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Speaker 4: Roll Call Subramo, Son Son Subramo, Roll Call Subramo.

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Speaker 5: Son Son Subrao Roll Quest Love a single, Yeah, Quest

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Speaker 5: Loves Free, Yeah, Quest Loves Dancing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Wes Love is going.

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Speaker 6: To be.

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Speaker 3: So Supreme. Roll call Supremo, something so Supreme.

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Speaker 5: Roll my name is Spante Yeah, coming through when the clutch. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I can give you a little Yeah, but number too much,

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Speaker 5: number two of us, number.

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Speaker 7: Two Supreme, something Supreme, Roll call Suprema, Something Suprema.

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Speaker 2: Roll my name is Sugar. Yeah, I'm never shower. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that Purple Room, give it back Brown.

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Speaker 7: Supreme, Son Son Supreme, Roll Call Supreme Supreme.

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Speaker 6: Roll Hospital Ain't ready Yeah, ready to start? Yeah, we

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Speaker 6: wrote my role call Yeah, had a change of heart.

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Speaker 4: Supremo, something supreme, My roll call Suprema so supreme, roll.

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Speaker 8: Yeah with Mike and his hands.

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Speaker 9: Then touch Joe Cole play oh nose God damn.

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Speaker 4: Brema Suprema Suprema roll.

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Speaker 3: Brower, brow I don't know what else to say, but brower.

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Speaker 7: Suprema, Role Supremo, Suprema roll call, Suprema so supremo roll call.

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Speaker 1: Well like you actually hit the on the hedge, right,

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Speaker 1: I can just name them all. Luthor, Change, made an Ingredients,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl Lynn, Chrace Jones, Jones, Girls, Queen Guthrie, Angelo Beaufieldtha Franklin,

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Speaker 1: James Brown, Tevin Campbell, gladst Knight, Meet Look, Tony Bennett,

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Speaker 1: Paul McCartney, David Byrne, Billy Joel, uh Hall of Notes,

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Speaker 1: Kick the Coconuts, Glen Jone and now the show's over

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Speaker 1: last John Right now, what they all have in common

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Speaker 1: is probably a very distinct sound. Most notably Luther Vandros

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Speaker 1: had such a sheene and such a clean texter to

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Speaker 1: his music, which I feel defined eighties FM radio brought

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Speaker 1: to you none other than the master engineer with us

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Speaker 1: today on Quest Love Supreme welcome Michael Brower to the show.

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Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Now, my my personal favorite shows of any shows that

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Speaker 1: we do are with the President Company excluded looking at

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Speaker 1: Sugar Steve are the engineers because they, to me, shape

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Speaker 1: the sound of the artists that we love so much.

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Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying, and more than you know.

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Speaker 1: Often I don't even think the artists really know that.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the artists know much of the science

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Speaker 1: that goes into the product that they deliver, but the

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Speaker 1: engineer can explain it. So we thank you for doing

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Speaker 1: this with us. Yeah, honored you. You agreed to do

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Speaker 1: this so for our audience that's not too detake. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: technical nerds, what is the role of an engineer.

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Speaker 3: To get the vision of the artists down on tape

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Speaker 3: as closely as possible, to record it in a way

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Speaker 3: that when you put the faders up, you've got the

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Speaker 3: feel of that song nailed. Okay, So it's more than

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Speaker 3: just a documentation of the event, but trying to get

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Speaker 3: the emotion and the feel across.

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Speaker 1: Now, often are you part of because people don't know

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Speaker 1: that tracking a song is different than mixing a song.

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Speaker 1: So is it important for you to actually record the

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Speaker 1: song so that you can really determine the app control

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Speaker 1: of what comes in.

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Speaker 3: We can we remind a little bit, what's the difference

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Speaker 3: between what is tracking? Okay, well it is tracking. There

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Speaker 3: is a big difference between tracking and mixing. Tracking is

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Speaker 3: when you're recording all the instruments to multi tracks, to

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Speaker 3: many different tracks that you can control the volume over later.

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Speaker 3: And so how you record the drums and how you

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Speaker 3: record the vocal and the bass, all that is very

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Speaker 3: very important to make sure that the feel of that

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Speaker 3: song comes out properly. And I started at a studio

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Speaker 3: called Media Sound, which was an R and B studio primarily,

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Speaker 3: and I just spent seven days a week in there,

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Speaker 3: just you know, starting as an intern and then working

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Speaker 3: my way into an assistant. But the point that I

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Speaker 3: watched that I that was made clearly is how great

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Speaker 3: the engineers were at this studio and how well they

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Speaker 3: they recorded the sounds so that the artists would come

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Speaker 3: in and just go, oh my god, this is exactly

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Speaker 3: the way it should sound, and you know, and it

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Speaker 3: would change from song to song. Media is where you

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Speaker 3: first interned, like that was yes, Media Sound was my

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Speaker 3: first gig. What year was this? This was seventy six,

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Speaker 3: and then I was an assistant by seventy seven, and

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Speaker 3: then an engineer by seventy eight. So did youeer, wait,

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Speaker 3: why did that whole process take me eight years? You know,

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Speaker 3: you still you give me some more coffee? Times are different,

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Speaker 3: I mean back then everybody moved up pretty quickly. On

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Speaker 3: it was just I've just noticed how quickly it slowed down.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was a time as Media sound and

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Speaker 3: many of the studios you had an engineering staff comprised

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Speaker 3: of the staff engineers, and then the assistants that were

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Speaker 3: being taught by the engineers, and then the interns, and

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Speaker 3: eventually the engineers would move on and assistants would move

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Speaker 3: into that slot. And then around seventy nine or eighty,

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Speaker 3: when the bottom fell out of Disco and all the

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Speaker 3: labels were basically getting rid of their roster, studios couldn't

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Speaker 3: afford staff engineers anymore, and they only had on payroll

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Speaker 3: of the assistants. So moving up to become an engineer

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Speaker 3: slowed down dramatically by two or three years because the

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Speaker 3: engineers coming through were all transient, you know, they were

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Speaker 3: just coming in for a bit and then moving on,

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Speaker 3: and so studios just wanted basically professional assistants.

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Speaker 1: So are you saying that from the mid seventies to

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Speaker 1: the very early age eight that there was actually a boom,

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Speaker 1: an upward mobile movement, Because when I hear any veteran

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Speaker 1: of the music industry talk, they always speak of, you know,

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Speaker 1: the slow down period of a particular part of the

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Speaker 1: recording industry. You know, some people think that period was

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Speaker 1: like the early eighties, you know, the industry was over.

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Speaker 1: It was musically almost every period every year it is

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Speaker 1: like it was over that year, it was over.

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Speaker 3: So well it you know, the studios were starving because

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Speaker 3: there were no more acts coming in. They'd all been dropped, right, So,

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Speaker 3: but so in order for studio to stay open, they

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Speaker 3: couldn't have staff engineers also on payroll, so they forced

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Speaker 3: pretty much most of the engineers to go independent.

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Speaker 5: Ah So, so when people say like Thriller saved the

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Speaker 5: record business, like that is not much of an exaggeration

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Speaker 5: because from the period that you're saying, like those yeah,

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Speaker 5: early eighties, like it was kind of.

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Speaker 3: It was a time when when bands came in and

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Speaker 3: they had carte blanche with a budget. And I remember

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Speaker 3: this distinctly because of our food budgets. I mean what

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Speaker 3: we ate during launch and dinner was amazing. And then

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Speaker 3: one day none of those bands showed up anymore. They

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Speaker 3: were all off the roster. Uh. And then you know,

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Speaker 3: when it started to bands were starting to come in,

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Speaker 3: it'd say, okay, so what do we do for food budget?

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, no, no, we don't have that anymore.

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Speaker 1: Do you think do you think that MTV sort of

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Speaker 1: helped with that as well? I mean, of course with Thriller, Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was the butt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was super important. It's also important

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Speaker 3: that bands that were maybe mediocre but had great presence

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Speaker 3: via MTV just became huge hits.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so who do you remember your Did you get

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Speaker 1: a job at the studio as an intern because you what?

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Speaker 3: Were you in love with music? Or was it just

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Speaker 3: like I got to get a job with me. I

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Speaker 3: was a drummer with the band. It was just a

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Speaker 3: cover band, and we were out in the Midwest, and

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Speaker 3: I I liked what I was doing. I wasn't sure

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Speaker 3: that I was going to be good enough to make

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Speaker 3: a living off of it, but I had gone to

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Speaker 3: Eastman School of Music right when I graduated. For it

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Speaker 3: was like a two to three week course and it

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Speaker 3: was there where I met well, there were there were

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Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of people, but one of

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Speaker 3: them was Phil Phil Phil No, no, no, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: it'll come back to me. But anyway, way, what was

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Speaker 3: it an engineer? No, it was a great producer. He

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Speaker 3: just recently died. I can't believe. I just Phil Ramone.

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Speaker 3: Phil Ramone, Yeah, thank you very much. And you know,

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Speaker 3: until then, I was I was pretty scared of what

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Speaker 3: they were. They were very technical, and I didn't understand

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Speaker 3: anything they were saying. And I was thinking, man, you know,

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Speaker 3: I just I was a performer. I want to continue

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Speaker 3: doing that, and how is this going to go on

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Speaker 3: with with people just talking about eqs and reverbs and

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Speaker 3: wet and dry? And I was like, oh my god.

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Speaker 3: And so it was after a day of lessons and

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Speaker 3: we're all sitting around and Phil Ramone is talking at

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Speaker 3: a table and we're just sitting around and he's, you know,

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Speaker 3: he's just talking about how when he's mixing and his

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Speaker 3: hands are moving and and I'm just at the table.

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Speaker 3: I go, wow, this looks like he's performing. And I thought, man,

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Speaker 3: this could be amazing. And there was at that point

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Speaker 3: just watching him describe how he mixes, I thought this

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Speaker 3: would be perfect. This is what I want to do,

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Speaker 3: you know, I want to continue performing, and it just

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Speaker 3: to me it was like instead of playing drums now

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Speaker 3: I playing the console. When did the.

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Speaker 1: Days of like I'll see old studio photos of the

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Speaker 1: Beatles and even some James Brown studio session photos, and

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Speaker 1: like engineers were actually dressing like engineers with the white

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Speaker 1: lab Like when did when did that particular period come

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Speaker 1: to an end?

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Speaker 3: For engineers? Like that was mostly going on in England

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Speaker 3: and Abbey Road. I didn't see unless there was a

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Speaker 3: couple of studios where the jazz studios where that was

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Speaker 3: very evident. But I never saw any of that. I

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Speaker 3: don't think that was really going on in uh in

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Speaker 3: any of the American studios. So how how important is

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Speaker 3: math and equations to you?

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Speaker 1: Like do you go, I'm a guy that goes on

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Speaker 1: feeling like I'm you know, I'm just learning about different dB.

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Speaker 3: Levels and hurts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it hurts, and you know overdriving, you know, with

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Speaker 1: hip hop, it's just like more about feel as opposed

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Speaker 1: to you know, science. A guy like Bob Power would say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know too much base UH four level base will

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Speaker 1: cause your record to skip and da da da dad,

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Speaker 1: So you got to balance it and take it.

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Speaker 3: You know, he has come up with these equations because

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 1: That your your calling card or your signature is how

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Speaker 1: you use compression, which I used to think compression was

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Speaker 1: the enemy of music, but you made it work.

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Speaker 3: So like how important is is percent? Feel? Everything else

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Speaker 3: is a coincidence. I mean you can analyze it and go, oh,

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Speaker 3: he does this and he does that. Or when I

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Speaker 3: started with mixed with the Masters, where I needed to

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Speaker 3: teach and actually verbalize what I'd been doing, That's when

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Speaker 3: I had to actually kind of study what I'm doing.

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Speaker 3: But it was always by feel. If I was looking

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Speaker 3: for a delay, I would just turn it till it

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Speaker 3: went ah. You know, if I slap on a vocal,

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Speaker 3: I would just keep moving it too far, too little,

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Speaker 3: and just then that's not right in But you know,

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Speaker 3: I mean I'm not making a joke.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's when he gets on the board, he

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Speaker 2: just you know, he'll boost up the level and then

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Speaker 2: sweep sweep the frequencias.

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Speaker 3: So that's how I learned.

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Speaker 9: That's interesting because throughout my when I was a I

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Speaker 9: guess out of college. I was interested in being an engineer,

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Speaker 9: and then I realized the science of it, and I figured,

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Speaker 9: at some point, even though you are doing it through ear,

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Speaker 9: at some point it's like you have to know the

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Speaker 9: formula of mega hurts into this, and goodness.

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Speaker 3: I didn't have to do that, because then I would

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Speaker 3: have never.

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Speaker 6: That's actually what kept me from doing it, because I

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Speaker 6: I almost was a music engineering major in college. Then

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Speaker 6: I saw all the physical class required.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, you know, I'll tell you what. It's interesting

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Speaker 3: you say that because I was terribly intimidated by people

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Speaker 3: who talked like that, I mean really really bad, and

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Speaker 3: I would have to leave the room when they'd start

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Speaker 3: talking like, oh my god, I'll never be like that.

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Speaker 3: They're so smart, you know. And there and I'll give

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Speaker 3: you the best example where I learned my lesson and

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Speaker 3: this they changed me forever. It was that Media Sound

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Speaker 3: and we have just started. It was right after outside

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Speaker 3: engineers are now being allowed into studios. Because at Media Sound,

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Speaker 3: you there were no outside engineers. You came to Media

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Speaker 3: Sound to work with their engineers. But with the desk,

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Speaker 3: death of disco and studios opening up, there was this

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Speaker 3: engineer and so he's describing, you know, we're just in

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Speaker 3: the lounge or just hanging out, and he starts saying, yeah,

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Speaker 3: I've got this acoustic guitar sound, and I've got this

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Speaker 3: MS positioning where I've got it for two inches one

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Speaker 3: mic over the other. And then I bring it up

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Speaker 3: and I bid good bed, bid bed bed, you know,

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Speaker 3: and it's like beer and baseball to me, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh my god, I'm just and I

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Speaker 3: started getting that feeling in my stomach where I'm just like,

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Speaker 3: oh man, I'm never I feel when I wake up.

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Speaker 3: And I was just like, man, this, I just wish

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Speaker 3: it Sky would shut up because I just, you know,

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Speaker 3: it makes me feel awful. I don't know what he's

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Speaker 3: talking about, and I'll never do that. So I go, hey,

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Speaker 3: can I hear what you're doing. He goes, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: come on in. It was in studio way. It's beautiful room,

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Speaker 3: I know it, you know, every inch of that room.

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Speaker 3: And he plays it sounds like and it was crap,

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Speaker 3: and I was just like, wow, that is not good

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Speaker 3: at all. And I say, okay, thanks man. No I

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Speaker 3: didn't say no. I was just like, I was likeels sketch.

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Speaker 3: I said, did you say that. You know, I'm just thinking,

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Speaker 3: I said, man, what an idiot. I am all being

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Speaker 3: intimidated and everything and walking in there thinking this guy

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Speaker 3: is God, you know, and it sounds like crap. And

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Speaker 3: so I left there and I thought, never again will

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Speaker 3: that happen, because it's always about feel, and I don't

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Speaker 3: anybody start talks big. Yeah. If I go in and

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Speaker 3: I listened to it and it sounds good, then I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna be curious to see how he did, and I'll

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Speaker 3: be interested in learning. But all the talk talk talk,

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Speaker 3: and all the numbers you need to know, and and

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Speaker 3: you know, formulas that means anything, and in R and

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Speaker 3: B it never meant anything. I mean, you know I learned.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was because of being around Luther, and

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Speaker 3: you know that that whole crowd and that whole field

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Speaker 3: that I started mixing in the up on the upbeat,

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Speaker 3: like I never really moved much. I used to move down,

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Speaker 3: and I'd be the only guy in the in the

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Speaker 3: room on the feeling, you know, down, and every and

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Speaker 3: I look around everybody else heads are bopping on the

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Speaker 3: up you know. I was like, well, you know, I

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Speaker 3: would try that and I'd fall out of him I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I really.

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Speaker 1: Am the only white guy in this room. You know,

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Speaker 1: can you can you trust your ears in a studio?

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Speaker 1: For me, the final word is when it's when it's

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Speaker 1: outside the studio. And I know, like most studio speakers

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Speaker 1: are intentionally built to be more dry than what your home.

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Speaker 3: Experience is, Like how how often can you just know okay,

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Speaker 3: this is this is it? I really trusted my speakers.

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Speaker 3: I would take it home, but it was never My

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Speaker 3: speakers at home were never accurate. They were kind of whacked,

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Speaker 3: and so I stopped doing that and I'd listen to headphones.

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Speaker 3: But then I was intimidated by listening to my mixesm

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Speaker 3: in my headphones because I was afraid they'd sound awful

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Speaker 3: and I'd hear stuff. So I was I never wanted

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Speaker 3: to put headphones on a lot of insecurities to get

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Speaker 3: where I am. But you know, I actually what I

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Speaker 3: learned to trust. I was mixing some records in Japan

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Speaker 3: and they had this boombox and they'd play back my

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Speaker 3: mix through the boombox. And when they first started doing that,

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Speaker 3: I was like, wow, man, this boombox sucks not good

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Speaker 3: at all. And then you go, oh, you know, maybe

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Speaker 3: we fixed this, We fixed that. Like yeah, okay, but

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, listening to this, it's awful. And

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Speaker 3: then it got sounding really really good. And then I

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Speaker 3: listened back to on my pro acts. I was like, whoa, wow,

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Speaker 3: this sounds great. I thought, ah, yeah, I've never I

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Speaker 3: just learned something. And you've you've probably seen it. In

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Speaker 3: my room. It's like this old Sony box. Every song

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Speaker 3: I've ever mixed, I mixed through there, and I trust

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Speaker 3: that radio. So when I know it sounds good there,

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Speaker 3: it's going to sound good on my proacts, on my

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Speaker 3: ATC's or you know, all the other speakers, and it's

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Speaker 3: going to sound good outside. And I also learned a

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Speaker 3: lot from mastering engineer. I mean, the first ten years

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Speaker 3: or so, I mastered everything with Greg Calby at Sterling.

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Speaker 1: So you would you would you wouldn't trust the process

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Speaker 1: of them. You would actually go and make sure that

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Speaker 1: they didn't flatten you out or anything.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was learning. I mean, he mastered my very

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Speaker 3: first record, and so I'd go in there because back

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Speaker 3: then it was called Mickey and Becky was a Christian act.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, okay, recorded and recorded and mixed, and uh,

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Speaker 3: they were really great. People. I mean, so many stories

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Speaker 3: with that record, but you know it was the first

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Speaker 3: record and the cover had a banner, big banner across

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Speaker 3: the two of them, you know, Mickey, Oh my god, yeah,

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Speaker 3: what first record?

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Speaker 1: Who were you an apprentice under when you finally got

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Speaker 1: to assistant? Who's your Who was your.

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Speaker 3: My mentors were Harvey Goldberg, okay, and Michael Deluge and

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Speaker 3: Fred Christie and Clear Mountain, uh, Tom, Tony bon Jovi.

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Speaker 3: I mean there were a lot of great guys, but

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Speaker 3: the two that really took me under the wings were

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Speaker 3: Michael Deluge and Harvey Goldberg.

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Speaker 1: In your assistant days, what were your clients like? Where

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Speaker 1: they local acts, any national.

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Speaker 3: Or about everything? I mean Fat Back Band, Oh talk

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Speaker 3: about Wait a minute, Tony BONJOI was doing Fat Back

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Speaker 3: and and I mean just all you know, heavy R

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Speaker 3: and B was name. Yeah, well good, good question. Remember

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Speaker 3: two of them?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Fat Back, I'm like Spanish Hustle, Yeah, Kington.

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Speaker 3: None of them come to mind now, it was so

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Speaker 3: long ago. Let me see we did the Hustle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was there, the Fat Back Man as well.

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Speaker 1: Oh they had one too, yeah oh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, now it was but it was m Van McCoy

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Speaker 3: he was a regular. He was a great guy. Man.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, Okay, how old were you at this point?

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Speaker 3: On I started at twenty five, so at this point

356
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Speaker 3: I'm twenty six, twenty seven. I started pretty late. Were

357
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Speaker 3: you scared? I was older than most of the engineers.

358
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Speaker 3: I was even than Fire Mountain? Wow? Yeah, and Harvey

359
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 3: and all those guys.

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Speaker 1: Were you afraid when you finally took the reins on

361
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Speaker 1: your own or like, how do you make that that leap?

362
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Speaker 1: Most engineers I talked to either their lead guy like

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Speaker 1: decides to take a vacation or is sick that day,

364
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Speaker 1: and then next thing you.

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Speaker 3: Know, well, they were great there because you start off

366
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Speaker 3: by doing overdubs. Okay, so you would record a guitar overdub,

367
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Speaker 3: and then you move on to maybe backing vocals, and

368
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Speaker 3: then you'd eventually move towards doing all the percussion and

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Speaker 3: then strings and then horns all separately, and eventually, you know,

370
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Speaker 3: the day comes and I remember the day I got

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Speaker 3: the call. So it's gonna be you know, it's gonna

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Speaker 3: be an AD date. It's gonna be pretty big session.

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Speaker 3: It's just gonna you know, drums, bass, and you know

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Speaker 3: the rhythm section and then maybe and maybe backing vocals

375
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Speaker 3: and the singing and stuff like, Okay, that's cool, I

376
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Speaker 3: can handle all that. And then about ten minutes later

377
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Speaker 3: the orchestra show, she calls back, well, she calls this

378
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Speaker 3: is for the next day, and Vivian Deluge calls me

379
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Speaker 3: and she goes, so listen, you know they're also going

380
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Speaker 3: to have strings and horns at the same time. It's

381
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Speaker 3: all live. It was studie way. It was a huge,

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Speaker 3: huge room, and she says, you know, I don't I

383
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Speaker 3: don't think you're quite ready for that. I was like, no, no,

384
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Speaker 3: I'm ready. I'm ready. I can do it. I can

385
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Speaker 3: do it. She goes, you sure, Yeah, yeah, I'm really sure.

386
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Speaker 3: I go okay. Click. I went over to the bathroom

387
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Speaker 3: like I just ready to pass out, like, oh, I

388
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Speaker 3: can do this. I can do this. And then she

389
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 3: calls back again. She goes, look, I don't know, Michael.

390
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Speaker 3: Now they've added also a whole whole percussion section, vibraphone, rimba,

391
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Speaker 3: you know. And I was just like, yeah, no problem,

392
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 3: it's no problem. Click. So you're saying I'm at typical

393
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Speaker 3: disco sessions. This was an AD date, Okay, an AD

394
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Speaker 3: date and so it was for a commercial or you know,

395
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Speaker 3: for for some kind of who knows anymore. It was

396
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 3: a long time ago, but they had, you know, a

397
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Speaker 3: lot of musicians. I mean because the studio during the

398
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Speaker 3: day we were doing commercials and then come six o'clock

399
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,320
Speaker 3: we were doing records because you couldn't get any of

400
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 3: the musicians during the day because they were getting doubled

401
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 3: in triple scale, right, So nobody was doing records during

402
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 3: the day because records a single scale back then. So

403
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 3: so Media Sound was very well known for doing commercials

404
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 3: from nine am to five pm, and so I'd finish

405
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 3: at five, take an hour, and then I'd start records

406
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 3: until and I was doing double shifts. I didn't care.

407
00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: I loved it, Okay, So I want to get into

408
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: some of your clients, Billy Joel.

409
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Speaker 2: Before we start with all the the ones you want

410
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 2: to talk about.

411
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,120
Speaker 3: Billy Joel, Let's back up because with Billy Joel, there's

412
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,360
Speaker 3: some of these acts like Billy Joel and Aerosmith where

413
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 3: it was part of a box set. You know, I

414
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 3: would just do a couple of songs, and I never

415
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 3: met Billy, I never met Gosh from arrow Smith. So

416
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,880
Speaker 3: those were one offs, which you know, it was fun.

417
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 3: But I read you also did mixing on Freddie Hubbard.

418
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 3: Did you do? Yeah? He did. Red Clay was direct

419
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 3: and it was another it was another ct record and

420
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Speaker 3: that turned out to be Yeah, he's still in your

421
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 3: swag right now, Red Clay, He's still That was that

422
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 3: I'm dunking it.

423
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Speaker 2: I'm approaching the hoop elevating. Uh well, what about Red Clay, Well,

424
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: because that's rudy right.

425
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it was it was after, way after the

426
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: record had been done. I don't remember why it had

427
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 3: to be remixed, but that show was you know, that

428
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: album was remixed and it was Steve Berkowitz. I believe

429
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 3: that was, you know, the head of that. The live

430
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:27,640
Speaker 3: version of the studio version.

431
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 5: It was.

432
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 3: God so long ago. I think it was a studio version.

433
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: Ok because you were you weren't coming from the hip

434
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: hop perspective. STUDI version that's tried live version as far ASDA.

435
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 2: So, I mean other what what other CTI records were

436
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 2: you associated with?

437
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: That was it? I mean again, it was it was

438
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 3: going through Sony through Steve Burkowitz, being re released, you know,

439
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 3: just like the Dylan records. Okay, it was a point

440
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: where they were, you know, they wanted to do sac

441
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 3: D and so a lot of these records were being

442
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 3: redone with the Dylan records. The masters had been lost.

443
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 1: Oh so you're completely mixing from scratch. You're not just

444
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: taking the half inch and the final the original.

445
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 3: Wow. Okay, So what pressure is that on you? Because

446
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 3: I'll notice that.

447
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 1: This explains a lot when like when I go on

448
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: iTunes and I'll hear variation in the mixes of like

449
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: the box set versus the greatest hit remastered versus the

450
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: original version, and you know, it'll be a ring in

451
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 1: the snare and I'll notice different mixes. Of course, you'll

452
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: you know, I assume that you'll try and stay faithful,

453
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: oh to the original. But what keeps you from but

454
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: you're known for such sheen, Like what if you're doing

455
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: a project that is okay, if you're doing something from

456
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: John Wesley Harding or something from like yeah, it's trashed

457
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: out trashing, it's.

458
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 3: Not appropriate to make it anything less than trash. So

459
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 3: you do believe in the trash. Now I love trash.

460
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: See okay, See this is the thing that could because

461
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 3: it's gonna say, when I was listening to some of

462
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 3: your stuff. Get busy? How dirty? Get busy is right.

463
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 3: I was like, listen, man, I want to mix something

464
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 3: like that for you because it's dirty something though, because

465
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 3: I don't want to do Sheen was. Sheen was years ago.

466
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: You know that that's what was cool. But times change.

467
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: The thing is like when I think of, like even

468
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 1: when I think of what hip hop was trying to

469
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: be the anti or go against, especially like with Public Enemy,

470
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: Like I'm thinking, oh, Luther Vandros, because I'm like, what's

471
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: the shiniest, most brightest, most clear. I mean now, as

472
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: a DJ, I respect it, you know, because I love

473
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: when a good mix translates over.

474
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 3: The system. But how how do you think.

475
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: As far as like you're definitely did you set out

476
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: to say, I'm going to like just redefine what R

477
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: and B was, because, with the exception of Off the Wall,

478
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: most R and B records weren't that super clean.

479
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 3: Yeah. With Luther, you know it was. I mean there

480
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 3: was nobody like him when he came out. Nobody was

481
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 3: singing like him, but it was pretty basic R and B,

482
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: and I think the sound we were getting at media sound.

483
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: It's not like I did something completely different than what

484
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: we were already doing there. I think I just he

485
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: looked at me, he goes, you take care of the sound,

486
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 3: I'll take care of everything else. And he had met

487
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 3: me when I was doing the Change record, and he

488
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 3: really liked what I had done with Glow of Love,

489
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 3: you know, and Searching. Those were the only two songs

490
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: I'd done on that record. And he was like you,

491
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 3: and he was like, I really like what you did.

492
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 3: You know, He's just you know, I don't know if

493
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 3: I thought you had my voice a little dry on

494
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 3: Glow of Love and yeah, but Luther, you know, it

495
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 3: was just like it brought that vulnerability out because yeah, exactly,

496
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 3: you know, I wanted more reverb.

497
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 8: Can I ask you.

498
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 9: Guys a question as a novice, like what would be

499
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 9: an example of a badly mixed R and B record

500
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 9: to give people like a reference points?

501
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 8: Luther was the great I.

502
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 3: Mean, not.

503
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: Like for real Princes albums. Oh yeah, Prince records. But

504
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: this is the thing though, that was part of the

505
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: kind of Prince albums are bad. And he admitted that,

506
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, because he did it in his bedroom.

507
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.

508
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: Up to what And the thing is, if you work

509
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: too much on a song, your ears will start lying

510
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 1: to you.

511
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, do you agree with me or are

512
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 3: you above the no. I like to take a lot

513
00:31:58,960 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 3: of earbrakes if I can.

514
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like a lot of times, like okay, a cat

515
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: like Kanye West will blast, He'll blast his music on

516
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: the biggest speakers ever, and you'll wear.

517
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 3: Your ears out.

518
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 1: So a lot of times when you're mixing, you're supposed

519
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 1: to mix it on soft speakers, very low level. Because

520
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: the thing is, if it sounds good on crappy you know,

521
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: like your clock radio at home, like what he was

522
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: saying about his box, like sound excellent. So you shouldn't

523
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: wear your ears out and you should take ear breaks.

524
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 3: But I don't completely agree with that. You really feel

525
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: it physically. I mean I start off with the big speakers,

526
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 3: when my I've got the ATC fifties and a big

527
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 3: ass sub, and when I'm getting the drums and the

528
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 3: bass and you know, everything else on, it's cranked. But

529
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 3: I don't do it for hours. I'll do it for

530
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 3: you know, under an hour, clearly, but I'll get to

531
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 3: the point where I physically feel it, and when I

532
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 3: know where everything is in its right spot, then I'll

533
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 3: start to turn it down, and then I'll progressively get

534
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 3: the smaller speakers the point where it's on my radio.

535
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 3: But I gotta physically feel what I'm mixing. I gotta

536
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 3: feel that bottom end and the kick hit me under

537
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 3: the you know, in the stomach, and the snare in

538
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 3: the chest.

539
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: And but to finish the point, if those first ten

540
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: Prints records had a professional scene mix, it wouldn't be

541
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: the same record. I agree, Like I his this is

542
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: where Bill kind of gets mad at me because I'm

543
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: slicing everything after the love Sexy period, like once Prints

544
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: upgraded to Paisley's Park Studios and had you know, better,

545
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: better equipment.

546
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I hated it. I hated it because

547
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: it just IT'SOK.

548
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: The songs were great, like and Stevie too, same thing.

549
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 1: The songs are great, but I felt the personality was

550
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: in the mistakes and the kind of like a Wu

551
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: Tang record, like you know, like Doctor Dre is great

552
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: for seeing, but I love the Rissa in the Basement

553
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: with Mildew and you know, the second they went to

554
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 1: l A and did Wu Tang forever and I was like,

555
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: this sounds like everything else. So sometimes only the best

556
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: won't do so how how how much of it?

557
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 3: Uh task master was luthor as far as like his.

558
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: His his discipline, his anal retentiveness is unbelievable because I

559
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: know the concert He's like.

560
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: What is it like in the studio It was a

561
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 3: great experience. He I mean him and and nat Adeley,

562
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 3: who was arranging and on the first record he was

563
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 3: This was in studio B at Media Sound and he

564
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 3: was in the vocal booth and then the band, the

565
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 3: whole rhythm section. You know, it was basically performing recording

566
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 3: it live. And once he had a great vocal take

567
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 3: that was to take. I mean that first album. Those

568
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: were all I barely touched any of the vocals. Those

569
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 3: were all the rough vocals. Those were the final vocals

570
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 3: on on that first album. And when you say touch

571
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 3: on what would what would you mean? I hardly did it?

572
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 3: In other was maybe i'd maybe i'd you know, re

573
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 3: record a word or two, you know, just it is, yeah,

574
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 3: but it wasn't even edits you know, it was all

575
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 3: hitting recording in and out real quick, so just jump

576
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 3: in and out on one or two words. But you know,

577
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 3: it was an incredible first record and it was done

578
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 3: in bits, you know, we did, you know, two songs

579
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 3: on a weekend. It was over a period of a

580
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 3: few months, easily, because he didn't have a deal yet.

581
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: But but to answer your question, when you'd see him

582
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 3: get to work, when it came time for doing backing vocals,

583
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 3: oh my god, it was just tredible to watch because,

584
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: you know, the first he always doubled the backgrounds and

585
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: who you know, they would be the regulars. You'd have

586
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 3: Phonzie and to author, Brenda and Cissy. Occasionally Sissy would

587
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 3: kind of come in as a you know, as a guest,

588
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 3: but there there was an even Whitney came in a

589
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 3: couple of times. But you know, he had the regulars,

590
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: and then he would do the first pass and then

591
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: the second pass. He would change everybody around you say, okay, Fonzie,

592
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: you take this note, and I'll take this note, and

593
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 3: you know, in the invert and invert stuff, and and

594
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 3: if somebody just went off a tiny bit or you know,

595
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 3: they were doubling and someone else, he'd notice it right

596
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 3: away and go no, no, no, fix that. And so

597
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 3: the reason why the backing vocals always sounded so incredible

598
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 3: is because he wasn't just doubling the doubles were always different,

599
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 3: really yeah, because you know he would just have people

600
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: take different different parts.

601
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 1: When you're when you're initially tracking a song like take

602
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: all right, let's take uh never too Much?

603
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 3: That has not been a lounge? How much pre how

604
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 3: much pre uh work goes into your tracking before you

605
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 3: know you have a take?

606
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,839
Speaker 1: In other words, uh, does the band have to play

607
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: it over and over again until you premix it?

608
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 3: Oh? No, I've I get the sounds before they walk in,

609
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 3: or well they'll walk in, you know. With Never too Much,

610
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 3: it would have been Buddy Williams, right, Buddy would have

611
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 3: come in and I would have gotten the sounds on him.

612
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 3: You know. Back then you'd get these in like ten

613
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 3: minutes basically, and so you do do do do doo,

614
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 3: snare snare, snare, kick kick kick, Okay, we're good, and

615
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 3: then bass. So you see that your rough sounds.

616
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: Close enough for Luthor or markets to not be discouraged, like,

617
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: I don't know this sound. I'm trying to imagine what

618
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: a rough mix of Never too Much sounds like because

619
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 1: to me, thechine of it all, there wasn't the makeup

620
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: on it. To me, is the product, you know, not

621
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: the glue, the hair weave.

622
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 5: The.

623
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 3: It was. There wasn't much difference really between doing the

624
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 3: rough and the final mix, because I was recording it

625
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 3: that way. I was recording it feeling it final. I

626
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: was riding the faders during the recording, and all the

627
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 3: monitors were set at basically one o'clock, and so the

628
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 3: way I would record is to keep leaving all the

629
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 3: tracks at one o'clock. And I did all my rides

630
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 3: so that when when i'd have to bring that song

631
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 3: back up really fast, I could just do it with

632
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 3: a pencil and I'd have my balance, the exact balance.

633
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 3: Because you know, if you got to do backing vocals

634
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 3: on four or five songs, it's not like you got

635
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 3: ten minutes or fifteen minutes to get a rough mix.

636
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: You need it right away because they're onto the next song.

637
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 3: So you just with a pencil, it goes and there's

638
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,000
Speaker 3: your mix. And so when it came time to mixing,

639
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 3: the mixing took like a couple hours, like two or

640
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 3: three at the most. It's crazy. We were at Media Sound.

641
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 3: We were if you took more than three hours to

642
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 3: mix the song, you were just not cool, really cool. Yeah,

643
00:39:53,680 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: we would mix, yeah, things up, which of you two

644
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 3: is one that's overthinking.

645
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: Well, it's just that he's saying the exact opposite of

646
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: what my experiences are. Like, Okay, take on things fall apart,

647
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,839
Speaker 1: take Act two Love My Life, which is pretty much

648
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: a root support or favorite. But the rough mix sounded

649
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 1: nothing like the final mix and a lot of my compositions,

650
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: it's strictly done on faith of don't worry guys, when

651
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: we mix it, it's.

652
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 3: Going to sound like this for a long time.

653
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like, you know, and for the longest,

654
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,359
Speaker 1: Tarik hate it. Like the version, the version that's a rough.

655
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: If I finally consent, maybe I'll leak it out. I mean,

656
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: it sucks compared to what the final was. And I

657
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: just had to be like, yo, man, that's the one.

658
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: He's just right to it. No, no, no, no, but

659
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: just like just he didn't like it com and started

660
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: writing to it, and it was like, all right, let

661
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 1: me add my verse. But because the tracking when we

662
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: were done, it just it had no life to it.

663
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: And I was like, dog, just trust me. See my

664
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: final vision. I'm gonna have strings of the thing. I'm

665
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:06,839
Speaker 1: gonna mix the snare roll, you know. And they had

666
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 1: the snaps on it and all this stuff, and then

667
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: the final mix it was like, yo, this is nothing

668
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: like that, But that's what you do in the production

669
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: at the time of the mix. That's what's going on there.

670
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:23,279
Speaker 1: That's the difference with Luther. Everything was done as we

671
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 1: were recording. All the decisions were made at that time,

672
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: and so come time to mix, it was.

673
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 3: Just the final process. So everything the record is done.

674
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 3: Now just put it up and ride it properly. And

675
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: they were done.

676
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: So if you want to put a phasing effect on

677
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: the base or something, or just a little bit of

678
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: course on it, you would do that as you're tracking.

679
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 3: If everybody thought it was a good idea, yeah, and

680
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 3: we committed to it.

681
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: Okay, see all right, you just thought that if it

682
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: sounds good dry, then it's like, okay, this is a song,

683
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:01,319
Speaker 1: and then wait till we.

684
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,479
Speaker 3: Dress it up and well, yeah, but did it sound

685
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 3: good dry? Not really? Okay, that's where we went, Well,

686
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 3: let's make it feel great, because otherwise we're not going

687
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 3: to print it. When we recorded, it's got to feel great.

688
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 3: Everybody in the room's got to be excited.

689
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 9: You said it so much that thought it was like

690
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 9: some extra honor in whoever the engineer was that was

691
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 9: mixing the album after it was done. Like I always

692
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 9: in my mind, I was like, Okay, the recording engineer

693
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 9: is one thing, but the mixing engineer, that's like a

694
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 9: whole other level.

695
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 3: That developed into it where you had guys who were

696
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 3: became strictly mixers like myself. I mean, the first person

697
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: I remember that being like, wow, you know people are

698
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 3: coming to him just to mixing would have been Bob Clearmountain,

699
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 3: so it is, and Tony bon Jovi and uh, I

700
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 3: mean Godfree and a lot of the guys at the

701
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 3: studio became just really really in demand for what they

702
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: could do with these tracks.

703
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 2: But you let me ask you a question, Michael, So,

704
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,360
Speaker 2: when it started to become this person's a recording engineer

705
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: or known as a recording engineer, and this person's starting

706
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 2: to become solely known as a mix engineer, did it

707
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 2: immediately start to be some kind of like a financial

708
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: different difference as well, like a mixing engineers notoriously get

709
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: paid more than recording engineers and mastering engineers. I don't

710
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 2: know if they get paid more than mixers, but it

711
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 2: seems like, you know, it started to become more.

712
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 3: Separated and very much in the beginning.

713
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 2: My question is, why do you think mixed engineers deserve

714
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 2: to be paid more than recording I've always obviously they're

715
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 2: being paid for their for their wrong persons, But no,

716
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 2: I mean to me, tracking or recording it's pretty hard work.

717
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,799
Speaker 2: It is hard work using your ears, you're using and.

718
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 3: You're spending way more time than I am to mix

719
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 3: what you spent weeks and months recording. But it becomes

720
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: a specialty, and the more you can really enhance the

721
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: vision that the artist had originally and do it in

722
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 3: a way that is blowing everybody's minds on, the more

723
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 3: in demand you become. If you if you're a mixer,

724
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 3: we're the only people that like your mixer. Your friends

725
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: probably going to get all that much work. But in

726
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 3: the beginning, everybody who's an engineer was a mixer. You

727
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 3: did everything. You did everything then. But we started realizing

728
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 3: that some guys were much better energy at engineering than

729
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 3: they were at mixing, and vera and vice versa.

730
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: I always thought that Bob Power was a way better

731
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: mixing engineer than a tracking engineer, But then.

732
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 9: Master there is a whole nother level is like if

733
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 9: the mixer is a peasant too. I mean, if recording

734
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 9: is the peasant to mixer, then mixer is the peasant

735
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 9: to master is like the last.

736
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 3: Step that's like, yeah, the last step that you know

737
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 3: a whole few leagues what's mixed. If you're doing it right,

738
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 3: the mastering engineer shouldn't have too hard a time, but.

739
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 8: He probably gets paid the most.

740
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 3: I don't know about that. It really depends.

741
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: But as you said before, the same thing holds true.

742
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: If the recording engineer does his job right, then the

743
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 2: mix engineer shouldn't have two over time.

744
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 3: There are tracks where if I know I'm getting something

745
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 3: from Joe Chicarelli or or a bunch of great engineers,

746
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 3: and I know I'm going to be mixing them, I'm like,

747
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 3: it's going to be a good day. Okay.

748
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: So since you say that, I now think that the

749
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: mixing engineer has it harder, because there have been a

750
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: lot of times where my mixing guys will be like, like,

751
00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: you know, I understand the nightmare they're going through. Then

752
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: we have a situation with one of our interviewees where

753
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: they said that they got it. Who said that, oh,

754
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,479
Speaker 1: just plays explained that you know they would get bad

755
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: tracked jay Z songs, Oh yeah, yeah, And a guy

756
00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: like jay Z doesn't understand the technical jargon. He's just like, yo,

757
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: I won't right in two minutes. You know, if you're

758
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: with a client that is not you know, the technically

759
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: you know, up there with his IQ to understand certain things,

760
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: then I almost feel like the mixing engineer would get

761
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: more abuse because it's.

762
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,080
Speaker 3: Like, yo, why mush it sound like that? Because that's

763
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 3: how I came.

764
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: They're not going to understand like, well, you know, the

765
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 1: tracking was bad, and so yeah, I never we learned

766
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: not to use that as an excuse.

767
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 3: We just made it good and we had to figure

768
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 3: out how to make it sound good. I mean way

769
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 3: before drum samples and we're doing you know, like disco

770
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: records and you get this kick that goes like what

771
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: am gonna do with that? You know, and we learned

772
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 3: how to make it sound like a great kick. So

773
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 3: are you more.

774
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: Not afraid worried about the producer and artist at hand

775
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:23,879
Speaker 1: versus the an R and label president like so say

776
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: a great example if now Rogers was extremely satisfied with

777
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: the way that the Diana record Barry Gordy gets it

778
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,760
Speaker 1: and like this shit sucks, you know, and then hired

779
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 1: his own guy to remix that entire nineteen eighty album.

780
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,320
Speaker 1: So I know that because a majority of your stuff

781
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: was on Sony and Arista and stuff that you know,

782
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: is Clive talking to you like, you.

783
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 3: Know, I like my mixes and da da da da da. Well,

784
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 3: it's very clear what you were going to hand into Clive.

785
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 3: It was going to have to be all about the vocal,

786
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 3: and so the challenge was to make sure that you

787
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 3: got a real good groove going with the rest of

788
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 3: the rhythm without making it sound like it was a

789
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 3: huge vocal up. And that's where I learned how to

790
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 3: eq certain things out of the record so that for Aretha,

791
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 3: I could make her sound really really loud, but you

792
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 3: could still feel the track around her.

793
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 1: So, uh, of your of your of your hits arsenal,

794
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 1: what was a recalled nightmare?

795
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 3: You know? Did you have to do Freeway Love like

796
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 3: five times over? Like?

797
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 1: How often would you have to recall a mix until

798
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: all parties were satisfied.

799
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 3: There wasn't much that going on back then. You know,

800
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,520
Speaker 3: you might recall it, and back then it was almost

801
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 3: like a memory. I mean they'd start writing stuff down

802
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 3: a little bit, but I would just kind of puts

803
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 3: and recording, like now you know you can recall something instantly.

804
00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 3: We're protests. No comparison. I mean, there's just no comparison.

805
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 3: So now you've got to do stems. If you're recording

806
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,360
Speaker 3: on I mean, if you're mixing on an analog desk,

807
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:09,600
Speaker 3: no back, then you know you'd recall the desk. And

808
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 3: I mean I got my guys trained so that you could,

809
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 3: you know, you could match the mix to the recall perfectly.

810
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 3: I mean really had him taking good notes, but quite

811
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 3: often I just throw the track back up and it

812
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 3: I don't know. I would do the same things I

813
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 3: used to do, and then I'd look at it and

814
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 3: it would sound just about the same. But it's interesting

815
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 3: you brought up pre Way Love because that was the

816
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 3: turning point for me that particular record with NRATA, because

817
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: something changed. Well I didn't record it, and that was

818
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 3: a bit of a challenge, but he wanted a lot

819
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 3: more bottom end than I had ever done before. And

820
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: that was truly the most terrific day or two in

821
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 3: my life, because as I added more bottom end, the

822
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,279
Speaker 3: vocal started to calm down. Because the stereo compressor was

823
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 3: just grabbing, grabbing, because the stereo compressor reacts to low

824
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 3: end more than top end. And he'd say, hey, give

825
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 3: me more vocal, you know, bring the vocal up, and

826
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: it's like, oh my god, and then the bass would

827
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 3: get squashed and just the whole mix started going.

828
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 10: So I.

829
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 3: Survived it. Let me put it that way. I still

830
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 3: can't really listen to that song without thinking what I

831
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 3: went through better.

832
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 2: But we're telling My Free Way of Love by Aretha

833
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: right yes now, and it's it's a funny song. I

834
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 2: never understood the lyrics and.

835
00:50:53,440 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 3: Well you pants but that you would use for her,

836
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 3: like what, Yeah, I was a four fourteen I used

837
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 3: I use a four to fourteen AKG with with Luther

838
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 3: and everyone everyone, and I had it angled in a

839
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 3: certain way so it was the bottom of the microphone

840
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 3: was just tipping at the nose, so it was kind

841
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 3: of it would look at their face. That's what I

842
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 3: was getting. I was getting their face and their throat

843
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 3: as opposed to just the mouth, so I get the

844
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 3: nose and the whole face. Faces and and if for

845
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 3: reath of example, if she would you know, kind of

846
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 3: edge up into the microphone because it was licking down.

847
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 3: I would just put a dummy mic in front, so

848
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 3: she'd be singing into like a fifty seven. It's like

849
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,280
Speaker 3: keep her position properly.

850
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 8: Her head wouldn't go up.

851
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, oh wow, look at that. Wow. So but

852
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,320
Speaker 3: four fourteen, that's got that had a really nice area.

853
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 3: And then I was using my knave. You know, I

854
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 3: was recording on a Neve desk exactly like the one

855
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 3: that we have here eighty sixty eight. What kind of

856
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,720
Speaker 3: what kind of preamps or compresses? What are you running

857
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 3: them through? It was the Neve pre amp and the

858
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 3: Neve compressor that was in the desk. Oh wow, it's

859
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 3: like no outside like tube take notice. Not No, it's not.

860
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: When I had the Neves, it was perfect. So another

861
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: one of your clients that I'm really curious about. I've

862
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: always wondered about the the quote unquote compass point sessions

863
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: of Grace Jones's trilogy. Did you mix and I only

864
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 1: mixed it? So did you have to go to bahamasador

865
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 1: or no? That's after No, I mixed it the entire album.

866
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 3: Yeah.

867
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: I really love that record, man, I mean, you know,

868
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: for hip hop heads, the my Jamaican guys like you know,

869
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:59,640
Speaker 1: it's a staple. So in doing that record, which you know,

870
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: of course would Slid and Robbie as the as the

871
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: as kind of the the the rhythm anchor of that

872
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: album and them being known for a lot of the

873
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 1: stuff that they don't reggae music.

874
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 3: Uh, what was it like for you to.

875
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: Sort of incorporate because a lot of that record would

876
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,720
Speaker 1: you know, you have to use a lot of reggae

877
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 1: effects like echoes and all those things.

878
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,320
Speaker 3: Like what was that process like mixing? You know, it

879
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,680
Speaker 3: just came to me. A lot of that is just

880
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 3: this is what it has to be, and you know

881
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 3: it's back then, it just happens. Spontaney. Spontaney, That's right.

882
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:53,640
Speaker 3: It was no just another day really Yeah.

883
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I mean, you know, just the legend of

884
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: Compass Points Studios and well I we're supposed to represent

885
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: you know now and it's legendary folklore.

886
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, but Sli and Robbie were incredible, just incredible.

887
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 3: So mixing those records Chris actually produced those records are

888
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 3: when I came. I came in and also did it. Yeah,

889
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 3: I came in later, you know for the mixing of it.

890
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: So I don't know what process, but I think Chris

891
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 3: was always involved in those records. Talking about Chris black.

892
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,640
Speaker 8: Was that Slyestone because.

893
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,240
Speaker 1: Robbie Shakespeare you but they're known as Sli and Robbie

894
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: infamous rhythm section.

895
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 3: They're based in drum. Uh drum and based rhythm section.

896
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 8: And the folklore of Compass is Compass.

897
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: Points Studios is uh uh a facility and I believe Bahamas, yeah,

898
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: and the Bahamas.

899
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 3: And pretty much.

900
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 11: Uh.

901
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: Chris Blackwell wanted Grace Jones to get out of disco music.

902
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 3: She was doing, you know, like.

903
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: Via Le Rose Viva and I forget the Levia. She's

904
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 1: doing like you know, album and a weird disco ship.

905
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:23,840
Speaker 1: And he wanted her. He was like, you would have

906
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 1: a better fit, uh doing more pop reggae stuff because

907
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 1: like the police was hitting and sort of using that together. So, uh,

908
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: what they call the Compass Point uh trilogy is her

909
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: three albums Nightclub and uh, Live My Life, You Nipple

910
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: to the Bottle of pull Up to the Bumper, all

911
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: those songs that you know Grace Jones for we're.

912
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 8: Recorded there just love spring learned something new every hour.

913
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: Okay, I know it's it's not classy for an engineer

914
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 1: to tell, but there has to be a heart client

915
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: like one that just Roji to the limit. Yes, there's

916
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 1: hardly any records that I feel that you had bad

917
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,720
Speaker 1: results in. But everything could have been a sunny journey

918
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: from eighty.

919
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:20,720
Speaker 3: No. No, there was one where I was just mixing

920
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 3: his record. It's not good to tell you, but I'm

921
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 3: going to tell you that. He comes in and uh,

922
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 3: he says, all right. He puts his feet up on

923
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 3: my desk, right right on the console. Now I'm like, okay,

924
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 3: you know, grow, as we grow wiser, you get to

925
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 3: understand how different people, you know, tick And by doing this,

926
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,720
Speaker 3: he was going to show me he was in control.

927
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 3: That's what That's what you know. All the body language

928
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 3: was saying. He walks in and yeah, he wants to

929
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 3: piss on there and just say this is territory, but

930
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 3: in fact it's mine. So he says, all right. I said,

931
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 3: all right, I'll let that go, and he he listens

932
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: to it. He looks at me and he goes, yeah,

933
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 3: you know, it's okay. But I got a problem with this.

934
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 3: I got a problem with that. I'm like, okay, fine,

935
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 3: let's get to work, and he just complain and complain

936
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 3: and complain and just really was there was no point

937
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 3: in it now. I was, I believe the third mixer

938
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 3: on this, he'd already mixed this record with two other people,

939
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 3: and they said, I think I know what you're talking about.

940
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 3: And they said, Brower, you're the only guy that can

941
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,360
Speaker 3: be able to handle this because at that point a

942
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 3: reputation for you know, knowing how to deal with a

943
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 3: lot of different egos and stuff. And so we kept

944
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 3: going at it and going at it, and he just

945
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 3: started getting more and more upset and being more and

946
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 3: more disrespectful. Finally I stood up and I went I

947
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 3: was like, well, this session is over. He looks at

948
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 3: me and he goes, what do you mean. I still

949
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 3: got more like, no, no, this session is over because

950
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 3: at this point he's kind of swearing at me and

951
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 3: you know, okay, And I just stood up and I

952
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 3: shook his hand and went.

953
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 1: See you okay. Can I just ask one question? That

954
00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 1: was one time I did this. Can I ask one question?

955
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:36,680
Speaker 1: Does this artist go buy three names? Doesn't go by

956
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: three names?

957
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 3: He went by one name? Quest Love.

958
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 11: Oh.

959
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 3: It was really a great story with Trent I Terrence yeah,

960
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 3: I mixed and I did some extra production on If

961
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 3: You Let Me Stay. And when I was first being

962
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 3: introduced to him, Lincoln Clap was the I mean, not

963
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 3: Lin Lincoln Oh is his last name? Oh, I can't remember.

964
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 3: Lincoln was introducing me. He was the A and R

965
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 3: for for Terrence, And so he introduces me to him

966
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 3: at a club and he goes, you know, hey, Terrence,

967
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 3: this is Michael Brower. He's gonna be working on your record.

968
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 3: And he goes, ah, so this is the guy who's

969
00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 3: gonna fuck up my record. I looked at it and went, no,

970
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,760
Speaker 3: I'm not going to fuck up your record because I'm

971
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:52,520
Speaker 3: not doing it. Why should I start now? If you

972
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 3: think I'm going to fuck up your record, why should

973
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 3: I even bother? Right? Because I've been down this road.

974
00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 3: I'm not going to waste my time, so see you.

975
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 3: And he goes, oh, well wait a minute, wait a minute.

976
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 3: You know, Lincoln's like, no, no, Michael, Michael, you know,

977
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 3: I go no, man, I'm not into this at all.

978
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 3: He goes, oh, I'm just kidding. I'm like, really, really,

979
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 3: are you kidding? This?

980
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: Some of my twenty one Jump Street, you know, And

981
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: he was just like okay, all right, you.

982
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 3: Know, I said, all right, well we'll think about it now,

983
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,960
Speaker 3: and that was you know, and then eventually I did it.

984
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:30,200
Speaker 3: But I was like, man, if you're starting off on

985
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 3: the wrong foot like that, it's not about an ego

986
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 3: that I've been down this road, you know. And then

987
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 3: you go, oh, I hope not, I hope I don't

988
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 3: screw up your record. No, I'm going to do a

989
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 3: good job, you know.

990
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: But in the eighties, wasn't everyone arrogant, wasn't everyone at

991
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: now Whole? And wasn't everyone at Diva, And wasn't no

992
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: what no, damn I didn't work started getting polite now

993
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 1: like I do.

994
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 3: Back then, you had to deal with.

995
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 5: Cocaine on your your your soundboard, and well yeah there

996
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 5: was a lot of but they were usually too burned

997
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 5: out to, you know, to be an asshole. So you

998
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 5: ended up doing the Hardline album the introduced Tennis Trent

999
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 5: Derby's Yeah but just one if.

1000
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 3: You let Me stay.

1001
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:11,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, that was a voice I wanted to ask you

1002
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,640
Speaker 9: about since we're talking about the eighties, not to bring

1003
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 9: it up with the Coco now, but Angela Beaufield, who

1004
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 9: is a voice that's not spoken about a lot. Do

1005
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 9: you I'm guessing you were to recorded engine?

1006
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:22,479
Speaker 8: What was what was Sasion?

1007
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 3: Did you track the entire too tough record?

1008
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 10: No?

1009
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 3: Just the song? Yeah? Okay? Mixed? Or or track just mixed?

1010
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 3: Ah damn okay, because I wanted to ask.

1011
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 8: A person, That's what I was asking unsung. But the

1012
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 8: music was remarkable.

1013
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so can I ask a question? Yes?

1014
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:48,919
Speaker 2: So, So back back in the times that we're talking about,

1015
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,520
Speaker 2: which is I guess is the eighties right now, a

1016
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 2: lot of the artists and presumably other people associated like

1017
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,720
Speaker 2: maybe label people would show up to the mix and

1018
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,439
Speaker 2: have input always And can you talk about how that's

1019
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 2: changed nowadays for somebody like yourself.

1020
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 3: Well, now I have to plead I don't even bother

1021
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 3: anymore to have the artists show up at the mix. Serious,

1022
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 3: they never show up. It's now down to maybe ten.

1023
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 3: It kind of went the way of analog tape.

1024
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: Good speakers, because now we're judging from our computers and

1025
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: our iPhones.

1026
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,200
Speaker 3: You know, it's just a different time. I mean, it's

1027
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 3: just the way it is.

1028
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 8: Who was the last artist that was interested in their

1029
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 8: mix process?

1030
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 3: I cannot see them not do it. Bon Jovi, he

1031
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 3: was there every day. I mean, to me, I'm always

1032
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 3: amazed when they don't want to show up. It's their album,

1033
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 3: but they they're scheduled to appoint point where they've got

1034
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 3: there on tour, there rehearsal, or they've they're you know,

1035
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 3: they or they're not given the budget to fly over

1036
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 3: what you're saying Coldplay and John Mayer and none of

1037
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 3: those guys. Oh yeah, sure, But I'm just saying that

1038
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 3: that the majority the ones that Yeah, all the Coldplay records,

1039
01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 3: you know, the guy's individual would come in at first

1040
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 3: and then but it was always down to Chris and

1041
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,760
Speaker 3: myself on those records.

1042
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,120
Speaker 2: Plus plus a lot of these artists trusts him where

1043
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: they don't need to be there the entire time and

1044
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 2: can he sends them mixes and they approve them and

1045
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:34,760
Speaker 2: so forth.

1046
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 8: Okay, they're not total dickheads, just you're the.

1047
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 3: Main and too, I think, well, no, they just put

1048
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 3: their trust into the visionary there and you have to

1049
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 3: learn how for that.

1050
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 5: So, I mean, if you've been by the time a

1051
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 5: song comes out to the audience as the artist, you've

1052
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 5: heard that song a million times. So once it's done

1053
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 5: and you send it to the mix and engineers, just like, look,

1054
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 5: take it away.

1055
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 8: And at this point as an artist, do you really

1056
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 8: want to go back to you revisions? Because you are

1057
01:03:57,680 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 8: who you are?

1058
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 3: That's got nothing to do who I am is that

1059
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 3: I'm going to be a good listener. Yeah, but but

1060
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 3: it's my opinion. You know, I'm interpreting it. It's and

1061
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 3: if it's nailing it exactly the way they want, then

1062
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 3: we're good. If it isn't, then we do revisions until

1063
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 3: it's right.

1064
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm going to try to not rapid fire question,

1065
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: but just in general, because again, your discography is way

1066
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: too extensive to go through everything. So what three songs

1067
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:37,560
Speaker 1: of yours that you've tracked a mixed just gives you

1068
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 1: absolute positive like goosebumps, like and I mean filler hits whatever,

1069
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: like just like I captured magic in a bottle, and

1070
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 1: well these three represent me.

1071
01:04:55,600 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 3: I would say house is not a home with Luther

1072
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 3: wait side question was that was it? Was it tracked

1073
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 3: to a click track?

1074
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,280
Speaker 1: Because I always wanted to know how he nailed the

1075
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 1: stealing love, Stealing loves without Dowell it live with his band?

1076
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 3: No, there was no and it was done before the

1077
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 3: strings came in. He do you hear when he's holding

1078
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 3: that note and is like a little dip. That's his

1079
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:36,919
Speaker 3: heart rate, that's his heart going. You hear that little drop. Yeah,

1080
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:40,800
Speaker 3: that was just him holding it. That was that was

1081
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 3: the take. And he's just holding it. And then everybody's

1082
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 3: watching him, you know, NAT's watching and then wow, downbeat.

1083
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 3: And then when when I think it was Leon that

1084
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 3: did the strings, they were just you know, they practiced

1085
01:05:58,040 --> 01:05:59,919
Speaker 3: it a few times and then.

1086
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:06,440
Speaker 1: And so after they tracked the music, he didn't come

1087
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: back like a week later and say I think now

1088
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 1: that vocal take just a little bit better.

1089
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 3: None of those songs, none of those vocals were redone.

1090
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:22,200
Speaker 3: Those were all from the rhythm tracks. It's crazy, you know,

1091
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 3: from the basics, because he would also he would also

1092
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 3: he would do he would do a tour of.

1093
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 1: Radio stations and have the TV track of that stuff

1094
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: and actually sing live in the studio. I've heard like

1095
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 1: maybe four different versions of a house is not a home,

1096
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: various places across the unit, and he nails all those

1097
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: gaps and pauses like yeah perfectly. And I'm thinking, like,

1098
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 1: is he like okay thirteen seconds here?

1099
01:06:56,680 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 3: No, It's just I feel just feeling and what what

1100
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 3: we used to do a lot too. Is. I was

1101
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:07,520
Speaker 3: really into throwing a delay on his voice, you know

1102
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 3: when you go WHOA. Well, I would do that when

1103
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 3: we were recording, and so he and I would just

1104
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 3: be playing back and forth and he would never know

1105
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,440
Speaker 3: when I'd throw, you know, a delay on it. But

1106
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:24,880
Speaker 3: eventually as he's recording, you know, I'd throw a delay

1107
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 3: in and and he would answer the delay. So I

1108
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,200
Speaker 3: was always printing the delay, but he would just he

1109
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 3: and I would go back and forth. It was just

1110
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 3: this thing between him and I, you know, so okay

1111
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 3: something he was a bad boy, it would do that. Yeah, yeah,

1112
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:44,760
Speaker 3: that was all during the recording of the basics. I

1113
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 3: was doing that, Okay, that's why there was that natural

1114
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,440
Speaker 3: answer back and forth. I mean, you know, and I was.

1115
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 3: I was very much part of starting that. And then

1116
01:07:54,040 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 3: that became part of the trademark, you know, when he

1117
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:00,720
Speaker 3: was doing live, then the mixing engineer was doing all

1118
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 3: that stuff. But that was just fun between he and

1119
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 3: I had just tried to surprise him. What are the

1120
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 3: other two well, recording see ever recording and the mixing. Yeah,

1121
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 3: I mean mixing is I would say with mixing it

1122
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:22,599
Speaker 3: would be yellow for cold playing. That was just there

1123
01:08:22,720 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 3: was that really empty, lonely feel that turned out to

1124
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:30,160
Speaker 3: really I was able to get that just from the

1125
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 3: snare drum. The snare drum just created this I'm I

1126
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 3: just feel it was. So did you mix and record parachutes? No? No,

1127
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 3: I just mixed it. But to record, it's the recording

1128
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 3: and the mixing back then. Really the only one it

1129
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 3: would be that it would be jumped to it. Ah

1130
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 3: man jump jump jump to it, and that was Yogi. Yeah,

1131
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:05,400
Speaker 3: drums probably using either you know, one of two snares,

1132
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 3: but really it was always either the well Artie Smith

1133
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:15,080
Speaker 3: was his drum tech, the Great Arty, the great drum

1134
01:09:15,160 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 3: tech too. Yeah, and you know he would tune the

1135
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 3: drums and he had you know, Yogi's drum set. But

1136
01:09:19,960 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 3: quite often depending on the song, I had my two

1137
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 3: snares next to him next to Yogi that he really liked,

1138
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:29,679
Speaker 3: and depending on the song, we'd switch it out between

1139
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 3: my eight hundred and the what was that snare? That

1140
01:09:35,000 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 3: the percussion that weird?

1141
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:42,800
Speaker 1: It's no on YouTube vic he's in a Yamaha, but uh,

1142
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: his signature stare snare that he used on it's no,

1143
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:48,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is.

1144
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 3: I assumed it was a Yamaha, but it's not. No,

1145
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:55,680
Speaker 3: it's some percussion company. Why can I ask why so

1146
01:09:56,640 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 3: deep with the snare tones? Why it sounded good? Is

1147
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 3: that simple? You know? It was just nice to have

1148
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 3: it real fat. And then lou there ever tracked the

1149
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 3: song with like a tight snare and you guys are like, eh, nah,

1150
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 3: it doesn't work. I don't think it ever occurred to him.

1151
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:23,720
Speaker 3: I mean, he never brought it up. It was it

1152
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 3: would be between you know, Yogi would be the one

1153
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 3: that says, you know, tighten it up or loosen it up,

1154
01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 3: or I want this other snare. You know, Yogi really

1155
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 3: directed all of that. But you know, you get that

1156
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 3: low sound and then you take the pulltech which is

1157
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,680
Speaker 3: an EQ, and then you'd push eight thousand all the

1158
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 3: way up and then you get that great, great edge,

1159
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 3: natural edge on the snare, so you'd still hear that

1160
01:10:52,360 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 3: crispy sound, but it was big and fat song.

1161
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 1: Do you wish you could recall and just do again

1162
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:05,560
Speaker 1: that you're still not satisfied with?

1163
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:10,519
Speaker 3: I don't. I never get never felt that way. Really, Yeah,

1164
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 3: there wasn't. When I was done, I was done.

1165
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: Most most first singles are like the last song done,

1166
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 1: like I need one more song and then that's the

1167
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:20,439
Speaker 1: time pressure or whatever.

1168
01:11:20,680 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 3: Like I it's not to say that they couldn't have

1169
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 3: been better, but I just never I just never thought

1170
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:29,720
Speaker 3: that way. I was like, we're done, let it go,

1171
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:30,320
Speaker 3: move on.

1172
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to say because somebody's gonna ask for

1173
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 2: their money back.

1174
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,000
Speaker 3: Well, I just I felt really good when I was done,

1175
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 3: when I walk away and say okay next and if

1176
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 3: it if it needed to be recalled and it was better,

1177
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:46,559
Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, I didn't think of that. Who

1178
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 3: else do you do you like that? Mix engineers do

1179
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 3: you admire? Oh, I've got a lot of fans. I

1180
01:11:54,160 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 3: love Manny It's a good buddy of mine. Yeah, America

1181
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:11,640
Speaker 3: and Tony Maserati, Spike. You know when Bob Powers he

1182
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 3: used to be at at Sony and he was in

1183
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 3: one room and I was in the other, and I'd

1184
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 3: listen to his mixes like, oh my god, that sounds

1185
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 3: so good. He would make me feel really like do

1186
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 3: I really want to go back and mix the song

1187
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 3: I'm doing? You know? He was just had such a great,

1188
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:38,960
Speaker 3: great feel. Yeah, I mean, there's those are the ones

1189
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:41,560
Speaker 3: that clearly come to mind that I just I just

1190
01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 3: love and I got to know Manny through mixing John

1191
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,720
Speaker 3: Mayer because we split up the album and it was

1192
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 3: on the Continuum record and I'm listening to this other

1193
01:12:53,360 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 3: guy's mixes. I'm like, wow, man, this feels it sounds different,

1194
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 3: but it feels the way I feel a song. I

1195
01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 3: gotta get to know this guy. Who is he? I mean,

1196
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 3: I don't pay a lot of attention to who's out

1197
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:12,680
Speaker 3: there and I'm just doing my work. But on it

1198
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:14,640
Speaker 3: was it really stood out because it was one of

1199
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 3: the first times where I'm sharing songs mixes with another

1200
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 3: person and they fit so well together. It's great. So

1201
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 3: how do you feel now the way.

1202
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: That technology has has completely changed from what it was

1203
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 1: thirty four years, thirty or forty years ago when you

1204
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 1: first started. So now people pretty much can do everything

1205
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 1: on their laptop.

1206
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:47,519
Speaker 3: You know, I'm fine with it as long as they

1207
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,040
Speaker 3: call me to mix it. Now they're mixing on their

1208
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:54,560
Speaker 3: laptop too. Yeah, well, I mean, but that's where it.

1209
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 3: They can do everything on their laptop, and then when

1210
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 3: it comes down to the mix, it's like it could

1211
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:05,200
Speaker 3: be better. How do you think feel about modern engineering?

1212
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: Now as far as like mixes are concerned, Like, are

1213
01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:11,679
Speaker 1: you like everything was better with analog?

1214
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 3: Like? No, it still comes down to the pilot. You know,

1215
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 3: you're gonna have great engineers, you're gonna have really terrible engineers.

1216
01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 3: And that's never changed. Even in analog days. You got

1217
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,679
Speaker 3: really really crappy tracks that you'd have to work extra hard,

1218
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 3: and then you get other guys who are just incredible

1219
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 3: and you just put the tracks up and you're like,

1220
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 3: mix is done. It's just fantastic, you know. And and

1221
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 3: as far as analog desks, I mean, I'm moving away

1222
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 3: from an analog desk pretty soon. How do you feel

1223
01:14:44,040 --> 01:14:47,400
Speaker 3: about that? Oh, I can't. I've been mixing a lot

1224
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:50,879
Speaker 3: of music on the hybrid. I'm still surrounded by analog.

1225
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:56,679
Speaker 3: Everything is analog, right, Yeah, all my outboard gear is analog.

1226
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 3: So the only thing I'm kind of switching out is

1227
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 3: the fader and the sound of that particular desk. But

1228
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:08,560
Speaker 3: you've got great plug ins where you can get the

1229
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 3: same sound. You know, if you're doing an SSL, you

1230
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:13,200
Speaker 3: can get the SSL sound. If you've got a Neve,

1231
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:16,040
Speaker 3: get the Neve sound. You just put that across the

1232
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,679
Speaker 3: channels and you at least in my experience, you can't

1233
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,400
Speaker 3: tell the difference between what I've done on on the

1234
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 3: SSL nine thousand and in my hybrid because it's sharing

1235
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 3: all the analog gear. Okay, so I'm and you know,

1236
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 3: and it's easy. Now it's a lot easier because you know,

1237
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 3: when you're on an analog desk, you've got three and

1238
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 3: a half hours of stems of you know, pasts, excuse me,

1239
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 3: passes you've got to do. In a hybrid situation, you

1240
01:15:45,240 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 3: hit a button, you got a script that does it

1241
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:51,479
Speaker 3: all automatically. So it's also way more efficient.

1242
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 5: What was the transition like when like moving I guess,

1243
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,560
Speaker 5: I guess it's maybe in like late nineties when the

1244
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 5: game started transitioning front analog to pro tools and two computers.

1245
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:05,960
Speaker 3: What was it like then? How did you make that switch?

1246
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 3: It wasn't difficult, it was well, I still treated when

1247
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,800
Speaker 3: it went from analog to digital. The first thing I

1248
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 3: noticed is that there was a lack of tightness in

1249
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 3: the music now, and I didn't know why. I just thought, well,

1250
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:27,800
Speaker 3: twenty four track analog just must sound, you know, just

1251
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:31,320
Speaker 3: sounds way better, and digital doesn't. It turned out to

1252
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:35,439
Speaker 3: be that it's the clock the clock that ties all

1253
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:38,679
Speaker 3: these tracks together. I didn't know this at all because

1254
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 3: I'm not at all technical, but it you know, it

1255
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:45,599
Speaker 3: was years later when I realized how important this clock

1256
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 3: is to getting a sound. And again it's down to

1257
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 3: the engineer too. If the engineer is recording, great to digital.

1258
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 3: But Digital had just a lot of artifacts that just

1259
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 3: didn't sound musical at all. You know, they felt like

1260
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 3: there was a ceiling to everything that I was doing.

1261
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 3: And of course that's no longer the case, but yeah,

1262
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 3: it was sonically, it was rough, and I still use

1263
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:15,439
Speaker 3: I didn't know anything about pro tools. I would just

1264
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 3: use it as if it was a playback. You know,

1265
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 3: I didn't do anything. I had an assistant who well,

1266
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:24,400
Speaker 3: I think it's still like that to this day, but

1267
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 3: shout out to Steve Feely. That's right, thank god. But

1268
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,480
Speaker 3: you know, and then in the beginning, you had plugins,

1269
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,559
Speaker 3: but the plugins they looked like my hardware, but they

1270
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 3: didn't sound at all. So I had no reason to

1271
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 3: use him because I had that gear. But eventually, you know,

1272
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 3: Waves and UA D and soft Tube and you know,

1273
01:17:47,240 --> 01:17:52,040
Speaker 3: all these great companies started, you know, getting so good

1274
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:55,760
Speaker 3: and emulating some of this gear that that you know,

1275
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 3: one day I I put a pull tech across something.

1276
01:17:59,160 --> 01:18:01,679
Speaker 3: I was like, wow, this sounds just just like mine.

1277
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:06,720
Speaker 3: And at that point use it, you know for me,

1278
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 3: I I'm not. I just want what sounds good.

1279
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 1: So I what's your opinion on soft two versus waves?

1280
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:22,599
Speaker 3: You know? Hard? And yeah, really hard anyway? So uh.

1281
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:28,160
Speaker 2: So, so the last ten years approximately, you've you've been

1282
01:18:28,200 --> 01:18:29,080
Speaker 2: an electrical lady.

1283
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:29,439
Speaker 5: Uh.

1284
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:33,120
Speaker 3: In the studio eight years? Eight years going on nine,

1285
01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:34,680
Speaker 3: I think, okay.

1286
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 2: In the Studio B, which is the legendary Purple room

1287
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:39,600
Speaker 2: with the purple SSL in the thousand.

1288
01:18:39,320 --> 01:18:43,080
Speaker 3: And great sounding. It was one of the first first

1289
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:47,679
Speaker 3: ssls in New York City and it's it got totally

1290
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,600
Speaker 3: refurbished and it just has a great punch to it,

1291
01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 3: great sound. And uh and and now you're moving on

1292
01:18:54,680 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 3: to your building, your own place. Now. I'm having place

1293
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,080
Speaker 3: built for me, yes, which I'll be moving in to

1294
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 3: next year. That's right.

1295
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 8: I'm happy.

1296
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:07,560
Speaker 3: Going to miss it electrically, of course, I'm going to

1297
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 3: miss electrically. I'm gonna miss everybody there. I'm gonna miss Lee,

1298
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 3: you know, I'm gonna miss the vibe. But you know,

1299
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 3: it's I'm excited by this is you know, it's another

1300
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:20,800
Speaker 3: another phase. Wait answer me this.

1301
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:25,680
Speaker 1: I have rats ever run in Studio B because just

1302
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:32,559
Speaker 1: mice my last day. No, no, and I still say

1303
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:36,160
Speaker 1: that was a rat, not a mon. I've never seen mice,

1304
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:37,719
Speaker 1: and I've never seen ghosts.

1305
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 3: Okay, my sister has. He's been totally freaked out by

1306
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:48,280
Speaker 3: by a ghost. Who there's a there's a ghost. That

1307
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:52,719
Speaker 3: name is Jimmy. It's not Jimmy. It's some some guy,

1308
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 3: don't Everybody describes him the same way, some guy with

1309
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 3: a beard.

1310
01:19:56,920 --> 01:20:00,759
Speaker 1: An electric lady electrically because when we were there, Jimmy

1311
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 1: the kat was Jimmy, Like was that ghost Jimmy Catt

1312
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 1: is no longer.

1313
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:08,759
Speaker 3: With this and he did not have a beard actually,

1314
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:12,840
Speaker 3: just a very overall Yeah. Yeah, maybe I don't know.

1315
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 11: I've never seen him, so, but you know, I'll look

1316
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:22,360
Speaker 11: at Steve or other assistants before him, who just have

1317
01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:24,360
Speaker 11: this look on their face.

1318
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,519
Speaker 3: They're not They're not kidding. You know. Somebody just walked

1319
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 3: by and they thought it was me and I had

1320
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 3: already gone. I believe it's on it. But the only

1321
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 3: thing that I've experienceds is on one piece of gear.

1322
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,000
Speaker 3: I've got two really big knobs is on a shadow

1323
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:53,040
Speaker 3: hill and you'd have to literally, yeah, you'd have to

1324
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:57,519
Speaker 3: literally fall into it sideways to turn the knob. And

1325
01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 3: I had just left the room and I came back

1326
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:03,519
Speaker 3: in and I played the mix and it's completely whacked.

1327
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:07,120
Speaker 3: It's like all left heavy. What just happened? And I

1328
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 3: turned around and one knob is just like, you know,

1329
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,439
Speaker 3: been moved almost all the way to the top. And

1330
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,720
Speaker 3: I looked at my assist and I go, how did

1331
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:17,760
Speaker 3: you bump into this? He goes, I haven't even been

1332
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 3: near it. I was like, whoa you believe you? I

1333
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 3: was like, okay, all right, well, let me turn this

1334
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:31,519
Speaker 3: nob back down. Jimmy the cat do that?

1335
01:21:32,240 --> 01:21:34,639
Speaker 2: Jumped on the jump on the console, and the cat

1336
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 2: turn on all the The.

1337
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:39,360
Speaker 1: Cat jumped on the console and actually clicked a button.

1338
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 3: And santed twice as good as my mix.

1339
01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, he jumped on the console and actually walked on

1340
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:48,800
Speaker 1: the board and clicked something and then walked away. And

1341
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 1: we all looked at each other like, holy shit, that

1342
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:56,519
Speaker 1: I believe that Jimmy Hendrix is still trapped in that

1343
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:57,320
Speaker 1: studio somehow.

1344
01:21:57,920 --> 01:21:59,880
Speaker 3: Did you, I want to ask, did you do the

1345
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:03,320
Speaker 3: did you record and mix Viva Levita. The co player

1346
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:07,439
Speaker 3: just mixed most of the record too. It wasn't I

1347
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 3: didn't do the whole record. Okay, did you just Strawberry Swing? Yeah?

1348
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 3: I love that song. That was awesome, great job on that.

1349
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:20,280
Speaker 3: I about to ask Joe Santorini questions. Oh oh about

1350
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:26,480
Speaker 3: the lawsuits. I was in the Grammy audience.

1351
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,800
Speaker 1: The day that they won an award for that, and

1352
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 1: him and his lawyers were trying to chase them with

1353
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 1: the subpoena. So it was like watching that, remember like

1354
01:22:37,960 --> 01:22:44,200
Speaker 1: those old Keystone literally like the Cold playing their whole cat,

1355
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 1: their whole management team like running down the isisland and

1356
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:48,479
Speaker 1: Joe and his lawyers are running the other way, and

1357
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:52,160
Speaker 1: they're like chasing each other, trying to serve papers.

1358
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 3: Dang, oh you mean with the Yeah, you know, look,

1359
01:22:59,160 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 3: I've known these guys from the beginning. They were physically

1360
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:07,680
Speaker 3: running that. That was just one hundred percent coincidence here

1361
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:10,840
Speaker 3: what anybody say? I mean, you know, if you look

1362
01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:14,880
Speaker 3: at the at the prior record, it was a soundcraft

1363
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 3: where they copied, you know, they they loved this one

1364
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:24,040
Speaker 3: little hook and they immediately called them and said, hey,

1365
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 3: you know, we're going to use We're going to use

1366
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,599
Speaker 3: your you know that line and and here's your credit,

1367
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:35,480
Speaker 3: and I mean, this is it's just you know, unfortunately

1368
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 3: it happens. The millions and millions of songs coming out.

1369
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:44,240
Speaker 3: It's going to happen, and you know, it's kind of

1370
01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:49,120
Speaker 3: like it. But regardless, it was not a conscious effort

1371
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:51,679
Speaker 3: because that's that's not who they are. If if they're

1372
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:53,759
Speaker 3: going to copy something, they're going to give that person

1373
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:56,759
Speaker 3: credit and they're going to be very very humble about

1374
01:23:56,800 --> 01:24:00,639
Speaker 3: it and and write about it. So it's my opinion

1375
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:00,920
Speaker 3: on it.

1376
01:24:01,560 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 1: Well, we're filing them for coming on the show today

1377
01:24:04,840 --> 01:24:09,719
Speaker 1: in school and that's about about sound and craft.

1378
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 3: Thank you Michael for coming on. Thank you for the pleasure.

1379
01:24:14,040 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 3: Any other last minute.

1380
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:20,559
Speaker 5: You guys face Like okay, on the Parachutes album, did

1381
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:23,400
Speaker 5: you mix You're a Big Man.

1382
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:25,719
Speaker 3: Man politics?

1383
01:24:25,760 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 5: That was that whole first album? Like that was just okay,

1384
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 5: did you mix the song Parachutes?

1385
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 3: The one was him the whole record, but but one

1386
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 3: song was Shiver? No I mixed up. I think actually

1387
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:45,920
Speaker 3: the first two songs I mixed for them was Shiver

1388
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:47,600
Speaker 3: and Yellow.

1389
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 5: Shiver, in which one is yellow yellow man. Goddamn yeah, Yeah,

1390
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:01,280
Speaker 5: I love that record. Did did you do clocks as well?

1391
01:25:02,200 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 6: No?

1392
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 3: You didn't mix flocks? Okay, that's the ship I wish

1393
01:25:06,200 --> 01:25:11,320
Speaker 3: I had. Okay, but but did the X and Y

1394
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:15,000
Speaker 3: record and then a good part of the Viva Livido

1395
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:15,519
Speaker 3: got to.

1396
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 9: Say to the listening audience, if you want to get

1397
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:21,600
Speaker 9: a real quick headache, go down Michael's list of credits because.

1398
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 3: It's much.

1399
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:31,120
Speaker 1: Fishbone questions, Fishbone, all.

1400
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 3: Right, we're definitely a great record. That was which which fish?

1401
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 3: Which one? Surroundings? David?

1402
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:43,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, line real quick? Uh the line between engineer

1403
01:25:43,600 --> 01:25:47,040
Speaker 5: and producer? Where does that begin and end? And have

1404
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 5: you ever kind of gone more into the producer?

1405
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 3: Yeah? I did production for a couple of years. Got

1406
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:55,519
Speaker 3: that out of my system real quick. We won't talk

1407
01:25:55,560 --> 01:26:00,720
Speaker 3: about that. Who did you produce? Nobody? You know? I was.

1408
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,120
Speaker 3: I went to England and I did I did some production.

1409
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:06,680
Speaker 3: I did this one band Animal night Life, and then

1410
01:26:07,240 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 3: Icicle Works and Roachford Yeah, yeah, to his first album

1411
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:22,120
Speaker 3: and the second album, first record first Roachford and.

1412
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:25,960
Speaker 8: We can google you know that.

1413
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 3: But you know what I realized quickly as a producer,

1414
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,680
Speaker 3: and I was pretty sure of it, and then I

1415
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 3: confirmed it as I'm not a songwriter. I don't have

1416
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:41,320
Speaker 3: a melody in my head that came from my own head, right,

1417
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 3: And to be a great producer, I think you really

1418
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,920
Speaker 3: need to be a songwriter. And so I knew I'd

1419
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 3: always be limited or restricted to bands who are completely

1420
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 3: self sufficient, which isn't really realistic. So after a couple

1421
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 3: of years, I like, the best I'm gonna do is

1422
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:04,439
Speaker 3: be average on this and I and then I really

1423
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 3: just loved mixing. It's like, I don't want to do

1424
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:13,720
Speaker 3: anything else but that. Did you mix Magic? But I'm

1425
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 3: thinking about.

1426
01:27:17,479 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 5: Did you make that record? Did you do that off

1427
01:27:19,240 --> 01:27:22,640
Speaker 5: the off ghost Stories? No, you didn't mix Thatkay? Did

1428
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 5: you do anything on that on that record? Okay, you

1429
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 5: didn't do that. Okay, Okay.

1430
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:40,320
Speaker 3: Unpaid from because he has a gazillion Okay anything else?

1431
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:43,759
Speaker 1: You worked on the Gwynn Guthrie Patlock record?

1432
01:27:44,439 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 3: Yes, that was. That's when I worked with Sli and

1433
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 3: Robbie and I did it a compass point? Did you

1434
01:27:49,920 --> 01:27:52,439
Speaker 3: have any introduced that I did not know that? Did

1435
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:54,640
Speaker 3: you work with Larry Lvan on the mixes at all?

1436
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 3: Or No? I mixed that. I think it was with

1437
01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:04,960
Speaker 3: Sline Robber, seventh Heaven they came back. Yeah, seventh seventh Heaven. Yeah, miss.

1438
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 1: Oh my god, do you even know how kind of

1439
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:10,960
Speaker 1: like that that uh that one sim stab is at

1440
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 1: the top of that's all. Yeah, yeah, that's yeah.

1441
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:18,799
Speaker 3: I mixed that in studio way at media sound Jesus,

1442
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:23,880
Speaker 3: but I recorded that and it was, you know, it

1443
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:27,280
Speaker 3: was a trip being there because you know, you'd be

1444
01:28:27,400 --> 01:28:30,080
Speaker 3: on the beach and then around twelve o'clock, one o'clock,

1445
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 3: everybody show up a studio and start recording.

1446
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:36,920
Speaker 1: And I was gonna say it's it's got pictures of that.

1447
01:28:37,680 --> 01:28:41,040
Speaker 3: I don't think like to be in that comfort zone.

1448
01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:46,559
Speaker 1: I think that's bad luck. It distracts everybody. It might

1449
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:49,800
Speaker 1: be relaxing, but it might be too relaxing. Well, it

1450
01:28:49,920 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: was I'd rather be uncomfortable and cold in the studio

1451
01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:53,560
Speaker 1: and focused.

1452
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 3: Than like yeah, but the whole vibe was laid back.

1453
01:28:56,680 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 3: There was a whole lot of smoke going on that

1454
01:29:01,400 --> 01:29:05,840
Speaker 3: It was size of cigars and I'm not smoking, so

1455
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:07,080
Speaker 3: you know, I get.

1456
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 1: Waitin Since his rapid fire last minute questions the BBQ

1457
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 1: ben oh yeah, on the beat, did they just say like, look,

1458
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:21,040
Speaker 1: we want to sound like chic or like, what's was

1459
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 1: there any connection?

1460
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 3: Well? Like was it the same guy from Change was behind? Well,

1461
01:29:25,400 --> 01:29:27,479
Speaker 3: hold on a second, Hold on a second. How that

1462
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 3: record was done is we went to Italy and we

1463
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:37,280
Speaker 3: recorded sixteen songs. We recorded sixteen songs, the rhythm tracks

1464
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:39,560
Speaker 3: on all of them. Right then we came back to

1465
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:42,519
Speaker 3: New York and he split it in two and called

1466
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:45,840
Speaker 3: one Change and the other one called BBQ, and then

1467
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 3: put lead vocals. You know, at that point Luthor didn't

1468
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 3: sing on that. He was they Fred Peatrice had had

1469
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,280
Speaker 3: done something dumb probably didn't. So, but the basics are

1470
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:02,640
Speaker 3: identical because I recorded them all in one period.

1471
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:04,240
Speaker 1: Song.

1472
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:07,800
Speaker 3: He never recorded, well, he would have, except that that

1473
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:13,360
Speaker 3: Petrice didn't want to give him a royalty, so he said, well,

1474
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:14,960
Speaker 3: I'm not going to sing on this record. So then

1475
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:17,840
Speaker 3: we spent three weeks trying to find a singer that

1476
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,280
Speaker 3: sounded like Luthor. It was just so you got everybody

1477
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:23,479
Speaker 3: coming in there trying to sing like Luthor. It was like,

1478
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:27,439
Speaker 3: oh my god. But we ended up with Crabs Robinson

1479
01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:30,080
Speaker 3: who ended up doing that. But and then on BBQ

1480
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:35,160
Speaker 3: it was you know, different singers and different backing vocals,

1481
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 3: and then maybe some of the overdubs, since overdubs were done,

1482
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 3: you know, by different people. But I just mixed, you know.

1483
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:46,559
Speaker 3: I came back to New York and I mixed all sixteen.

1484
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:50,799
Speaker 3: Did you do a BBQ? Did you do Imagination Starlet

1485
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:53,800
Speaker 3: like all those records? Imagination you mean hoole of notes?

1486
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 11: No?

1487
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:57,800
Speaker 3: No, no BBQ. I did one BBQ. I was just

1488
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:01,600
Speaker 3: one okay, the first one. Okay, Okay, we really got

1489
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 3: to wrap up, guys. Yeah, because you did Private Eye, right,

1490
01:31:09,360 --> 01:31:09,960
Speaker 3: did you mix that?

1491
01:31:10,200 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 5: No?

1492
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:13,600
Speaker 3: You didn't mix. I mixed, I can. I mixed some

1493
01:31:13,720 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 3: of the singles. I mixed, uh one on one you

1494
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 3: can do. Those were remixes. Those are the ones that

1495
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:24,680
Speaker 3: went R and B radio. Oh.

1496
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:26,840
Speaker 8: So the album version is different than the single that

1497
01:31:26,920 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 8: you met.

1498
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I understand the twelve inch fatter drum version

1499
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: of I can't go for that. But I love just

1500
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:38,840
Speaker 1: the teenty toy sound of the album version. Yeah, I

1501
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 1: love it, but I get it now. So you you

1502
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:44,719
Speaker 1: were there to boost up the mix, Okay, I see

1503
01:31:46,320 --> 01:31:48,519
Speaker 1: anything else, Ladies and Joe, Okay, the cold Play.

1504
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:58,160
Speaker 3: You're fired. You said that, like Mark.

1505
01:31:58,000 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 10: Stay on the graffiti, we didn't like, Okay.

1506
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:11,280
Speaker 3: You did everything.

1507
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 1: We have Bossville, Babelle and Finn, Tickeolo and Laya and

1508
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:18,160
Speaker 1: Sugar Steve this quest love signing up Michaels.

1509
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for coming. We'll see you all

1510
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 3: the next go around. Love Supreme, h West.

1511
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:30,879
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode

1512
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:38,120
Speaker 1: was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts

1513
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:41,720
Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1514
01:32:42,160 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.