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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Scott So, I'm een Novie Williams, and I'm

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Speaker 1: Michael bar And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: where we again Evan again. At some point you're just

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Speaker 1: gonna stop mentioning that I didn't chime in when there

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Speaker 1: has to be consequent Colin Tipton consequences. That's all I'm

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Speaker 1: I think of something. Thank you, Thank you. We explore

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Speaker 1: the big many issues in the world of sports. Let's

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Speaker 1: start because you know CEES is going on right now,

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Speaker 1: in case you don't know, that's the Consumer Electronics show

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Speaker 1: out in Las Vegas. I had to go to one

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Speaker 1: of those. By the way, really, I want to do

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Speaker 1: everything I cannot. Yeah, I don't think you want to

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Speaker 1: square feet of everybody showing me their panel and their

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Speaker 1: demo in there. Next year we'll have Bar file some

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Speaker 1: some five minute audio clips reporting from the scene at CES.

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Speaker 1: What could you see? Bar? Where's where's guys? I'm lost

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Speaker 1: where I've been indoors for eight days, but I hit

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Speaker 1: an insight exactly by the way I learned how to

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Speaker 1: play Ali Baba and Intel jointly announced plans to develop

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Speaker 1: the first ever AI Power three D athlete tracking technology

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Speaker 1: for the Tokyo Olympic Games and beyond. This is well

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Speaker 1: not just this, I mean we're talking about this because

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Speaker 1: it's sort of a symbolic of the entire industry. You

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Speaker 1: can't talk sports without talking tech. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: Ali Baba is involved and Intel, which by the way,

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Speaker 1: has an investment fund, and we have our friend Shawn

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Speaker 1: Brian over there in Intel. It really is a marriage

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Speaker 1: of sports and tech and where this is going to

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Speaker 1: go In terms of what I say all the time,

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Speaker 1: how do you scale? First of all, how does it

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Speaker 1: help athletes? But we're gonna have Brian rollapp on the

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Speaker 1: show later this week. How can you better scale your

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Speaker 1: products for the global audience in that flat world? That's

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Speaker 1: what the technology and sports is about. Yeah, and just

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Speaker 1: two geek out on the on the tech for for

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Speaker 1: a second. The movement in this industry is going so

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Speaker 1: fast in terms of athlete tracking. What what they announced

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Speaker 1: this week at c S is through cameras and through

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Speaker 1: computer vision, an ability to do something that we don't

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Speaker 1: it doesn't exist quite yet. It's actually it's it's cool.

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Speaker 1: It's I mean a lot of the things that we

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Speaker 1: athletes were censors for now you know, the sleeve the

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Speaker 1: pictures wear to measure their elbow angle, etcetera. The sleeves

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Speaker 1: that runners wear on their you know, for their for

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Speaker 1: their neck, to figure their head position or their knees.

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Speaker 1: All of that is something that Ali Baba intel in

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Speaker 1: this company I believe called Wrench it's w R n

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Speaker 1: C h UM. All of that is something that they're

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Speaker 1: saying that they can do via camera. And there's also

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Speaker 1: some very interesting applications here right there when you talk

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Speaker 1: about the way that leagues and unions interact on player data.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the lines that players draw is something

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Speaker 1: that goes on my body is mine? Right? That is

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Speaker 1: something that I need to be involved in. If you

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Speaker 1: can get all of that data, all the biometric data

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Speaker 1: from a camera that's sitting up in the rafters or

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Speaker 1: in the stadium, that's going to change the whole ownership

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Speaker 1: prospect of the whole thing that there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: really interesting applications of this outside of the fact that

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Speaker 1: this is just really cool technology. If they can get

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Speaker 1: it done. I want to know if our microphones are sensitive,

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Speaker 1: if we can keep in this show that little snorts

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Speaker 1: swallow you ahead, Wow, because if our listeners are here,

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Speaker 1: and I like to address it. That's why the interesting

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Speaker 1: story in the Times, by the way, earlier this week,

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Speaker 1: I've been about the Mavericks testing the blood of players,

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Speaker 1: and and again it goes to the privacy. Who does

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Speaker 1: it belong to? Kenn it hurts you in contract negotiations,

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Speaker 1: but has said the only people that he gives longer

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Speaker 1: contracts to than his players are his doctors and leagues

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Speaker 1: are you know, they're all different in their approaches. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: depending on when your CBA was signed, is how progressive

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Speaker 1: your league has been because that the technology is moving

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Speaker 1: so fast. So the the NBA, whose CBA I believe,

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Speaker 1: you know, they have written in their explicitly NBA players

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Speaker 1: are allowed to opt out of anything your team wants

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Speaker 1: to wear on your body biometric wise. There is a

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Speaker 1: two d and fifty thou dollar fine for any team

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Speaker 1: that uses that data in the wrong ways, including in

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Speaker 1: contract negotiations. You know, so that they are probably the

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Speaker 1: most progressive of the league's outlining that. Then you look

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Speaker 1: at the NFL cb A signed in two thousand ten,

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Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, something like that. You're not allowed to

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Speaker 1: wear warming socks. There's nothing really in there about certainly

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Speaker 1: not about wearables and biometrics. And there is a little

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Speaker 1: bit in there about the tracking the r F I

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Speaker 1: D chips in uh in shoulder pads, which is something

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Speaker 1: the NFL has been working on for a while. So

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Speaker 1: this is a topic that is obviously going to continue

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Speaker 1: to be a big issue moving forward in sports business.

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Speaker 1: And I'd love to see on the TV screed again.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm a big thing. I want to see

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Speaker 1: the heartbeat. I want to see speed. I want to

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Speaker 1: see you know, collision force force equals mass times acceleration,

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Speaker 1: So I want to see the running back of the linebackerround.

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Speaker 1: How fast were they running? What do they weigh? And

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? I don't know. You kicked something?

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Speaker 1: My lord, you really got me all up. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff. I can see this

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Speaker 1: on the screen. You can see where the engagement that

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Speaker 1: the the prospects for owners and leagues is exciting. And

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Speaker 1: then you throw on the betting on top of it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the gambling is a critical part of this because that's

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Speaker 1: the even bigger monetization commercial aspect of this is that

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Speaker 1: you know, we've seen with these deals MGM, with the

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Speaker 1: NHL It's a perfect example. Right. They part of their

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Speaker 1: deal with with the NHL to become the official sports

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Speaker 1: book of the league is access to a new kind

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Speaker 1: of data exactly kind of what we're talking about with

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Speaker 1: Ali Baba here. Uh. It is a tracking data. You know,

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Speaker 1: it will show tracking puck and player, fastest skater, hardest shot.

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Speaker 1: Those are things that one, gamblers would like to to

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Speaker 1: know when they get a sense of, you know, who's

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Speaker 1: playing well, why they're playing well, how much load is

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Speaker 1: on their body. But most importantly, people might want to

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Speaker 1: gamble on that. Right, What's who's gonna have the hardest

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Speaker 1: shot of the third quarter? Williams creating level tonight? How

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Speaker 1: is it gonna perform? Yes? So, as athlete data is

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Speaker 1: kind of advancing on these two parallel tracks, where one,

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Speaker 1: the technology is so good that athletes know more about

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Speaker 1: their body, their recovery and all that than they ever

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Speaker 1: have because the technology is great. Two, there's more options

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Speaker 1: through broadcast and through sports betting to make money off it,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and that creates all these tensions between players,

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Speaker 1: between teams, between leagues between You're gonna need media, You're

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Speaker 1: gonna need semi annual like CB A reopeners on tech.

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Speaker 1: You can't do this over eight year term. Absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a You're right, it's a If you're signing a

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Speaker 1: ten year c b A and most of them at

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Speaker 1: least do this, they have wiggle room in there for

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Speaker 1: a tech you know, panel to to revise. I believe

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Speaker 1: the NBA c b A mentioned specific companies that were

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Speaker 1: the only ones allowed to be used, and I think

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Speaker 1: they've updated that a few times over the past couple

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Speaker 1: of years. Um, But you're right, this is a This

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Speaker 1: is a fluid moving situation and as tech gets better,

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Speaker 1: as this Ali Baba announcement shows, they're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: continue to revise the best practices you know where there's

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Speaker 1: going to be applied to the common man. And and

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Speaker 1: you want to make money out of this, it really

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Speaker 1: because the whole point of this is too for any

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Speaker 1: athlete to improve their performance. A golfer, you want to

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Speaker 1: improve of your golf game, you want to improve your

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Speaker 1: bowling game, you want to go get lessons like this,

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Speaker 1: put these cameras on and there you go, and you

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Speaker 1: pay for this lesson and you can see where your

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Speaker 1: arms wing is all messed up. And I want to

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Speaker 1: see that swing. Messed up on that last ball in

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Speaker 1: the last frame when you bowled to where do you

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Speaker 1: think you went wrong? Well? I went wrong after I

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Speaker 1: like telling us the lane hadn't been I had shot

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Speaker 1: at before that. Yeah, you know you're not lifelong regret

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Speaker 1: to is a lifelong regret. Any who speaking of player data,

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Speaker 1: which is Evan's story, which brings us to the point

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Speaker 1: who owns it? Yeah? So the We wrote something earlier

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Speaker 1: this week about a sports innovation lab out of Boston

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Speaker 1: which is kind of trying to tackle all of these

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Speaker 1: thorny questions, right, who owns the data? How do you protect?

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Speaker 1: In what ways do you need to protect players as

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Speaker 1: commercialization happens? Um? How do you share in the money

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Speaker 1: that that comes out of them? Um? This is a group,

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Speaker 1: it's sixteen people. There's good representation across you know, NFL,

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Speaker 1: NFL p A are both on their NHL that there's

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Speaker 1: good league and team representation. There's also tech companies so whoop,

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Speaker 1: the athletic tracker origin Oreco, the blood testing group that

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Speaker 1: the that the Mavericks use. They're all on the panel

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Speaker 1: as well, plus some academics. They're gonna sit together, they're

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Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna meet a couple of times this year.

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Speaker 1: Their goal is to try to create a rough framework

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Speaker 1: that leagues and teams and players can use when they're

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Speaker 1: debating all these different aspects forwards cooks in the yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's it's perfectly indicative of how difficult these

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Speaker 1: conversations are going to be, right because the guy who's

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Speaker 1: sitting on that panel from the NFL and the person

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Speaker 1: sitting on that panel from the NFL p A are

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Speaker 1: gonna have different opinions, right, and then they're probably never

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Speaker 1: gonna see eye to eye on the on exactly the

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Speaker 1: right way to balance, you know, data that comes out

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Speaker 1: of shoulder pads or data, biometric data, whatever it is

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Speaker 1: that's coming off of NFL players, how do you balance monetizing?

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Speaker 1: Don't forget they're all going back to their attorneys as well.

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Speaker 1: They're in health councils, is saying how can this be

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Speaker 1: used against us? Let's say, I don't know if should

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Speaker 1: there ever be a problem with head trauma in sports?

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Speaker 1: If that should ever, you know, happen. Now you know

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Speaker 1: how fast the collisions were, You could measure who knows

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Speaker 1: whatever biochemistry telling you that maybe something wasn't right. You know,

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Speaker 1: the lawyers have to have it. Take the NFL right now,

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Speaker 1: Through the r F I D chips, they get player

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Speaker 1: location twelve times a second. All right, that's the main

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Speaker 1: data source that they get. Obviously, that tells you speed,

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Speaker 1: that shows you to change the direction. They get impact.

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Speaker 1: They're just not sharing the in You get the impact

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Speaker 1: number just by you know, calculating that. Let's see what

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Speaker 1: I don't understand, and this is all encompassing what we

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Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, is that listen it. What's different

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Speaker 1: because players do not want this information going out so

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Speaker 1: it could be used against him. Well, what's different than

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Speaker 1: holding a stop watch on an athlete and you see

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Speaker 1: that the athlete is maybe two tenths or three tenths

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Speaker 1: lower than what he used to be. Well, you're just

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Speaker 1: drilling down into things you could not even imagine before

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Speaker 1: that you can now measure things that you wouldn't have known.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're talking blood testing and measuring all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things that you can say you can run faster longer.

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Speaker 1: We'd rather have you as a player because you're less

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Speaker 1: likely to get injured because of X or Y. I mean,

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Speaker 1: just another sense of what's different this This the stuff

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Speaker 1: being taken off of Let's take out Ezekiel Elliott, who's

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Speaker 1: playing in the playoffs this weekend. Um, the stuff being

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Speaker 1: taken the data being taken off the chip and his

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Speaker 1: shoulder pads goes to his team, All right, that does

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Speaker 1: not go to him. I don't I'm not even sure

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Speaker 1: if he would be allowed to wear a device for himself,

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Speaker 1: you know. So, so all the data that comes off

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Speaker 1: of him is being able to be used by the Cowboys,

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Speaker 1: certainly to help him and to help the team. But

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Speaker 1: let's say, come contract negotiation time, they've got a wealth

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Speaker 1: of data that they can cherry pick. Goes down well

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Speaker 1: of times a second of every time he carried the

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Speaker 1: ball this year. And if his agent is only allowed

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Speaker 1: to use a stop watch and and go through game tape,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about a two very different planes of discussion.

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Speaker 1: Let's move on now to how in the world is

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Speaker 1: first of all, lose ten million dollars hosting the college

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Speaker 1: football title game. But you know the old saying they'll

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Speaker 1: make it up on the back end. Yeah, Well, they

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Speaker 1: have to foot the bill for the entire game that

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Speaker 1: was that was their deals, So they have to foot

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Speaker 1: the bill for staging this, and then of course they

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Speaker 1: do get the right to sell some sponsorships and and

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Speaker 1: those sorts of things. So if you just look at

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Speaker 1: it as a standalone, one off event, they come off

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Speaker 1: as losing money. I think it cost and ten million

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Speaker 1: they thought they get back exactly, So they do benefit. However,

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Speaker 1: by staging these large scale, high profile events at their stadium,

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Speaker 1: they will bring more customers in. Next time they will

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Speaker 1: be other events where they have a better deal in

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Speaker 1: which they can monetize. So I was a one off.

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Speaker 1: But why you know, you can't just look at these

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Speaker 1: things and one off you're looking at is why do

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Speaker 1: we host? Then this is great promotion for the stadium,

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Speaker 1: bringing more people, bringing more events down the road, enable length,

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Speaker 1: the better monetized. Yeah, it's Levi Stadium, right. Levi paid

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Speaker 1: a lot of money to put its name on that stadium.

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Speaker 1: And when you do those negotiations, I'm sure the stadium

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Speaker 1: authority was saying, listen, we've got the biggest college football

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Speaker 1: game of the year coming in. Uh, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: part of the conversation. So so when you calculate these dollars,

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Speaker 1: obviously the money Levi is paying that you can't portion

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Speaker 1: out exactly what goes to the fact that they're having

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Speaker 1: the biggest part of the most watch cable event of

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Speaker 1: the year. But part of the reason they did is

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Speaker 1: because it's there. So there's a lot of certainly from

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Speaker 1: a sponsorship, certainly from a future event, certainly from just

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Speaker 1: a name recognition. There's so much ancillary benefit to doing

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Speaker 1: it that they're believing it works out. And I'm actually curious.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It may be true that every stadium

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Speaker 1: just on the hosting of an event like this ends

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Speaker 1: up in the red. I don't know what the actual

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Speaker 1: thing is. Yeah, but one quick thing about it, didn't

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Speaker 1: the ratings go down this year for the National title game.

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Speaker 1: They went down a bit, but I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: watch the game, it was it was a blowout pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty obviously. Um. And also there's some fatigue about the

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Speaker 1: two teams Clemson Alabama have played four times in the

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Speaker 1: last four playoffs. Um. But this is still from a

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Speaker 1: cable standpoint, this is a giant on the cable schedule

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Speaker 1: every year. It's the most watch cable show every year.

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Speaker 1: I believe this year, even though ratings went down, I

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Speaker 1: believe that will be no different. Clemson quarterback Trevor Lawrence,

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Speaker 1: by the way, he's got locks like you. He's getting right,

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Speaker 1: blows me out of the water, maybe, but he doesn't

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Speaker 1: man and he lets it rich one player where he

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Speaker 1: took his helmet off and flipped in the same motion. No, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, too bad. We're not simulcast. Evans got

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Speaker 1: his man bun again. He's Patrick Rafter once again. It

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Speaker 1: works for Patrick Rafter, works for me to Okay, if

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Speaker 1: you have to say it about yourself, how many compliments

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Speaker 1: to day do you get? Um, somewhere between zero and zero?

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Speaker 1: Is it right in between that we don't need need

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Speaker 1: We don't need any any compliment tracking device for this.

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Speaker 1: It's it's just zero. But you know what's cool by

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Speaker 1: the way, I mean, I mean, I know we gotta

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Speaker 1: talk about let's do let's do Clemson's quarterback first, and

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Speaker 1: then we're gonna get something cool. No, well, I just

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Speaker 1: think he is in life to make a lot of

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Speaker 1: money when he's all set and the only problem is

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Speaker 1: he's prime right now, get hurt first, like you could know,

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Speaker 1: you know what makes most sense for him? And Evan

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Speaker 1: and I talked about this off fair if he said

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Speaker 1: I'm done with college football. Now you go go work

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Speaker 1: with your coat, your one on one coaching specialist. And

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Speaker 1: I thought, how great would it be if he could

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Speaker 1: have an internship with an NFL team where he for

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Speaker 1: two years would sit in on meetings, would learn the game,

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Speaker 1: would watch and learn, and and all the NFL folks

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Speaker 1: that that's great for quarterbacks actually watch and learn. But

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Speaker 1: he'd been doing it in college time. He wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: taking hits in college. That would be the best scenario

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Speaker 1: for him, for a team to take him and say,

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Speaker 1: come to you can practice with it. Sure you'll be

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Speaker 1: an intern. You're going to be a football intern. Then,

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Speaker 1: when he's eligible for the d aft light years ahead

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Speaker 1: of where he would have been. For those out there

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Speaker 1: who are a little confused as to why a guy

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Speaker 1: who looks like he might be NFL ready and and

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Speaker 1: scouts are saying would be the consensus number one pick

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Speaker 1: if he were in the NFL draft right now, is

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Speaker 1: not allowed to do that. NFL rules state that you

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Speaker 1: have to be three years removed from your high school

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Speaker 1: graduating class to enter the NFL draft. He is a

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Speaker 1: true freshman, which means he has at least two more

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Speaker 1: years to go before he's eligibility enter the NFL, agreed

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Speaker 1: to by the way, by the union negotiated in the

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Speaker 1: CBA union and so and something that likely is not

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Speaker 1: not going to be changed at least, you know, the

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Speaker 1: NBA went to the one year ruld, the one and done,

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Speaker 1: they had one year removed from high school the NFL.

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Speaker 1: Part of the reasoning for the NFL is just a

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Speaker 1: maturity thing, a body maturity thing. They did not think

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Speaker 1: that eighteen nineteen year old kids, even though these are

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Speaker 1: large guys, are ready to compete against NFL size men

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Speaker 1: and every cup. Unlike the NBA, where it seems like

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Speaker 1: every year there were people high schoolers who were eligible

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Speaker 1: and we're we're you know, contributing there in their rookie

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Speaker 1: years in the NBA. In the NFL, i'd say once

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Speaker 1: every two or three years, Geneveon Clowney felt like the

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Speaker 1: last one, the last guy who was a high schooler

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Speaker 1: who scouts said this guy would be playing, would be

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Speaker 1: a high draft pick right now if he was eligible.

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Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna give a special number of the week. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we don't normally do the number of the week. Two

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million million your bank account. I wish

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Speaker 1: Evan you should know this. I should know you couldn't

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Speaker 1: know this. I should know that is Dabos bonus for

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Speaker 1: being number of dollars that Jerry Jones paid for this

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Speaker 1: mega yacht. Yeah. Now I measured these things against like

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Speaker 1: Larry Ellison and Paul Paul outen head and we were joking.

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Speaker 1: We saw the picture of the yacht, which he named

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Speaker 1: after his wife have guys, but I couldn't tell Like,

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Speaker 1: we're like, is there a Hella pad on there? We didn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see the hell of pad has to be

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Speaker 1: a hell at Papen was like, there has How do

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Speaker 1: you get on this thing? I'm like, you go to

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Speaker 1: the part. He's like, there's no way. You don't go

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Speaker 1: to the port. This thing is a helipad. Remember Paul

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Speaker 1: Allen's yacht had the submarine and the helipad. Like this,

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Speaker 1: he needs a football field on the right. I want

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Speaker 1: to be kicking field goals through the h and into

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Speaker 1: the ocean. Just boom boom. Or if you're the Chicago

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Speaker 1: bears off the thing and stays on the boat. Sorry everybody,

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Speaker 1: by the way, the NFL, you know what really codey

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Speaker 1: Parky bless his art. The NFL kind of bailed him

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Speaker 1: out because they said somebody in Philly got a hand

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Speaker 1: on that play and that's why it clinked off the upright,

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Speaker 1: then the crossbar and then hit the ground. Did that

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Speaker 1: bail him? Ount it happen up. I gotta make the kick.

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Speaker 1: You gotta get it over the head now. But I

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Speaker 1: mean at least Jerry Jones. But if Jerry Jones is listening,

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Speaker 1: I would like the full on tour of that. Wants

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Speaker 1: to see the helipad. I want to see the helipad.

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Speaker 1: I want to I just imagine the amenities. Like also

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Speaker 1: know a guy who had a boat done in Tampa

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Speaker 1: and what the grain of woold you pick for everything?

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Speaker 1: I mean it was a long process and this was

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Speaker 1: like a thirty two ft gritty. Imagine the process of

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Speaker 1: this two D and fifty you are picking out everything

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Speaker 1: for that. Shad con no longer has the richest let

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Speaker 1: among Shad will be upgrading within six He bad because

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Speaker 1: there's just a landing strip on it. Uh. Now you

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Speaker 1: have envy. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast,

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Speaker 1: not Michael Barr along with Scott and we're here each

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Speaker 1: and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the world of

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Speaker 1: money in sports. Join us again at the end of

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Speaker 1: the week when we speak with Brian Rolapp, who runs

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Speaker 1: media at the NFL. A lot of big dollars there.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports on Bloomberg Radio around

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Speaker 1: the world and online wherever you get your podcasts.