Speaker 1: After the massacre occurred, but before her arrest, mother Angela
Speaker 1: Wagner took to social media to speak out about the victims.
Speaker 1: Here's an excerpt from one of those posts. What has
Speaker 1: happened to us in the past few weeks has been
Speaker 1: devastating and it will follow us for the rest of
Speaker 1: our lives. Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved
Speaker 1: her dearly. Her laws still hurts to this day. We
Speaker 1: want justice like everyone else. Let's try to find the
Speaker 1: real monsters who've done this. Turns out she was the monster.
Speaker 1: This is the Pike Did Massacre A production of Katie
Speaker 1: Studios and iHeartRadio Season three, Episode two Monsters. I'm Courtney Armstrong,
Speaker 1: a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and
Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, and preparation for this season, We've been speaking
Speaker 1: to many sources in and around Pike County who would
Speaker 1: not go on the record before, probably because they were scared,
Speaker 1: but now they are ready to talk. In some cases
Speaker 1: they were fearing retribution, including those close to Angela. There
Speaker 1: are so many perspectives on Mom Angela Wagner, and it
Speaker 1: begs the question, is it possible for a human being
Speaker 1: to be all things at once. Throughout all of these
Speaker 1: conversations and interviews, we've learned a lot more about the victims,
Speaker 1: the Rodent family, and the alleged killers, the Wagners. This
Speaker 1: includes other theories and information that goes generations deep, and
Speaker 1: some of it has far reaching and sometimes nefarious tentacles.
Speaker 1: Here's what we know about Angela Wagner. She had a
Speaker 1: mother named Rita Newcome. I actually met her in person,
Speaker 1: was in her home just days after she was released.
Speaker 1: And she was married to a man named Pug Carter,
Speaker 1: Angela's father. They at some point divorced, Rita remarried and
Speaker 1: had a second child, twenty years younger, her half brother,
Speaker 1: Chris Newcomb. Chris has agreed to speak with us for
Speaker 1: the podcast on the record for the very first time.
Speaker 1: Has now a good time? Do you have a minute? Well?
Speaker 1: What would you wanting to know? You are Angela's half brother.
Speaker 1: Explain that all to me, Like how you're related and
Speaker 1: how much younger you are. Angela is my half sister
Speaker 1: from my mom's first marriage. We got the same mom.
Speaker 1: She is twenty years older than I am. Well, here's
Speaker 1: my backstory that I can give for your radio thing.
Speaker 1: I grew up with George and Jake, like my brothers.
Speaker 1: I was always closer to George than I was with Jake.
Speaker 1: George would do anything in the world for anybody out
Speaker 1: of Never in my life thought this out of him.
Speaker 1: Jake on he has hand, I'd have never thought it
Speaker 1: out of him either. But he's always been a little odd.
Speaker 1: I mean, he just always has been. My sister met
Speaker 1: here never really got along that well. Jake ain't no
Speaker 1: better in my opinion, and I got nothing for him
Speaker 1: at all. Billy's Billy. He's always been Billy. I mean,
Speaker 1: everybody was trying to say. And he might have been
Speaker 1: the brains of the operation that some bitches stamp film.
Speaker 1: He couldn't hit the ground with his hat three tries,
Speaker 1: So you didn't really grow up with her. I never
Speaker 1: grew up with her at all, hardly. I mean when
Speaker 1: I wasn't even a year old, I was like nine,
Speaker 1: ten months old, she got pregnant with George, her oldest boy,
Speaker 1: which would be my nephew. How did you see any
Speaker 1: of them, George, Jay, Cancel or Billy And back when
Speaker 1: I was a kid, hell, I was always I had
Speaker 1: to go over and spend the night for two three
Speaker 1: weeks at a time. Oh wow. Hell, I spent several
Speaker 1: summers over there, and when we got older and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. I'd see George when every swung by or
Speaker 1: he'd called and say, hey, we're gonna go hunting and
Speaker 1: we're gonna move fishing. So we'd all go out and
Speaker 1: do that. So you might grow up with Jake and
Speaker 1: George being your peers. Oh yeah, yeah, we grew up
Speaker 1: more like brothers than we did uncle and nephews. I mean,
Speaker 1: we as close as hell. When of these kids, she'd
Speaker 1: treat me as one of the kids. But it just,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it seemed cold. Whenever she had to
Speaker 1: do something for me. It wasn't like a like a
Speaker 1: warming feeling, like you know here I want I want
Speaker 1: to help you have fun, or I want to help
Speaker 1: you out do this. It was just cold. Was she
Speaker 1: liked that with the boys too? Are just yell, not
Speaker 1: really just made Mainly, I don't think she liked me much.
Speaker 1: Why Why do you think that is? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't like her either, so I kind of worked
Speaker 1: out I never looked into my sister was very controlling person.
Speaker 1: Whenever rise around, she always tried to control every aspect
Speaker 1: that I did, and I pretty much told her go
Speaker 1: to hell and that was the end of it. But
Speaker 1: I mean she pretty much controlled every aspect of their life,
Speaker 1: right down to their social media, their Facebook, their Message
Speaker 1: or Twitter. They're fucking uh, their dating sites. They had
Speaker 1: dating sites, and she actually had the information for their
Speaker 1: dating sites. She had to passwords to it. No. Yes,
Speaker 1: So when you were a kid and you would spend
Speaker 1: summers there or extended periods of time, Angela was your sister.
Speaker 1: But I imagine treated you like a mom. You should
Speaker 1: probably helped cook for you and treated you like one
Speaker 1: of the boys. Was she kind to you that or
Speaker 1: was she always judge? Kind of a mixture of both.
Speaker 1: She was kind of a judge, kind of fake. What
Speaker 1: do you mean by that? It just seemed like she
Speaker 1: would be nice, but it was all like an act
Speaker 1: because she always told me, she said I'll never amount
Speaker 1: to anything. And she didn't tell just me that, she
Speaker 1: told other people that. She said that I would never
Speaker 1: amount to nothing and I'd probably end up spending the
Speaker 1: rest of my life in jail. I almost want to
Speaker 1: answer a phone call from her just to laugh at her. Wow,
Speaker 1: you mentioned you and Angela were raised differently. How would
Speaker 1: you describe how you were raised and how would you
Speaker 1: say how she was raised. I wasn't around whenever she
Speaker 1: was being raised, you know, I wouldn't even have thought
Speaker 1: then mom was still married to her dad, Pug or
Speaker 1: Eddie Edward Carter. He was always a good old guy.
Speaker 1: I knew him, ra Will you like Pug? Oh? I
Speaker 1: thought the world Pug Eddie Carter, better known as Pug,
Speaker 1: was Angela Wagner's father. We didn't know much about him
Speaker 1: or Angela's upbringing and how that might have shaped the
Speaker 1: person she is until now. Here's Jeff speaking to an
Speaker 1: anonymous friend of the Carter family who reached out to us.
Speaker 1: Your message is really interesting to me. I would love
Speaker 1: to just kind of like hear all of it. And
Speaker 1: now you found this information out on what your take
Speaker 1: on all of it is. I grew up in South Webster,
Speaker 1: where the Wagners came back from Alaska's where they moved to,
Speaker 1: and the actual house that they lived in was the
Speaker 1: house of her dad. I knew him as a Pug Carter.
Speaker 1: He always wore this like metal brace and he walked
Speaker 1: with a limp. He heard from my dad was that
Speaker 1: he would climb electric poles and steal copper or something
Speaker 1: off of the poles, and he's gotten electric uted and
Speaker 1: it affected his walking. When money would get tight by
Speaker 1: Black would go like pawn things to little but he
Speaker 1: ran like a I guess it would be illegal pawnshop
Speaker 1: where people would go take like small tools, long equitable,
Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. I think he'd gotten in
Speaker 1: trouble for forgery. One time. People would take their vehicle
Speaker 1: titles and pawned them to him for money, and he
Speaker 1: got to where he would like he would forge the
Speaker 1: titles and sell the vehicles, so people were like losing cars.
Speaker 1: So somebody eventually took him to court for that. And
Speaker 1: he'd done that for several years before he got in
Speaker 1: trouble for him, and that's the reason why Dad quit
Speaker 1: feeling with him. Explain that to me. So I would
Speaker 1: take my car title and sell it to him. You
Speaker 1: would pawn it him, so you would give him your
Speaker 1: title and he would give you a couple hundred dollars
Speaker 1: and you'd pay it back, or once you paid him back,
Speaker 1: he would give your title back. But then he started
Speaker 1: like selling the vehicles before people had a chance to
Speaker 1: pay him back. The whole opioid epidemics started around here,
Speaker 1: and I guess he'd gotten into pills and stuff and
Speaker 1: he was started selling drugs as well as running this
Speaker 1: underground pawn shop he was doing. There isn't a lot
Speaker 1: of information out there about Puck Carter, but what we
Speaker 1: could find included a criminal record filled with arrests for assault,
Speaker 1: receiving stolen property, and truck possession. From what I remember
Speaker 1: is that there was like an undercover seeing where the
Speaker 1: police were going to his house and purchasing and selling drugs.
Speaker 1: So actual drug bust is how he got caught. But
Speaker 1: the reason Michael Moran came into is Michael Moran he
Speaker 1: was like the cheaper lawyer. So if you were kind
Speaker 1: of poorer on like the lower income level, he would
Speaker 1: work out a deal where you didn't have to pay
Speaker 1: as much for a lawyer like he was who all
Speaker 1: the poorer people went to. And I think that's really
Speaker 1: how he got to where he could target prostitutes and stuff,
Speaker 1: is because they were lower income and they could afford
Speaker 1: his services. It's not a surprise to me that her
Speaker 1: dad had him as a lawyer. It's important to note
Speaker 1: that the recollections that Michael Moran was put Carter's attorney
Speaker 1: is strictly the first hand account of our anonymous source.
Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie and Jeff. We talked about Michael Moran in
Speaker 1: season two. He's an attorney and a former city councilman
Speaker 1: in Portsmouth, which is about twenty five miles south of
Speaker 1: Pike County. He had multiple allegations against him, including sex trafficking,
Speaker 1: the disappearance of several young women connected to him personally,
Speaker 1: and the possible murder of another at the age of
Speaker 1: seventy five while out on bail and awaiting trial for
Speaker 1: promoting prostitution, compelling prostitution, human trafficking, and engaging in a
Speaker 1: pattern of corrupt activity. Michael Moran died in November of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. There's a place called Big Bear Lake
Speaker 1: that has come up a lot over the year in
Speaker 1: our research. It's this spot not too far from Pike
Speaker 1: County that people go to on vacation. Essentially, it's like
Speaker 1: a holiday location. We're going to discuss this further, but
Speaker 1: it's also been alleged that it's a spot where sex
Speaker 1: trafficking happens, drug trafficking happens, and potentially there's a connection
Speaker 1: between Michael Moran and the Wagner family. I have to
Speaker 1: be really honest, my mouth dropped when we heard the
Speaker 1: connection between Pug Carter, Angela Wagner's father, and Michael Moran.
Speaker 1: It's full circle. It just further speaks to this idea
Speaker 1: that Pike County and the surrounding area is where people
Speaker 1: in power continue to stay in power by abusing other people.
Speaker 1: It also points to a larger plot here. Angie was
Speaker 1: always really close with her dad, Like I remember her
Speaker 1: being at her dad's often, like she took care of
Speaker 1: her dad. What I've heard locally is that's why they
Speaker 1: came back from Alaska's because Billy's dad had died and
Speaker 1: her dadded night they needed to settle those estates, and
Speaker 1: then they ended up moving into his house to Plug's house,
Speaker 1: and that's where they lived when they were arrested. Did
Speaker 1: you have any interaction with them when they came back. No,
Speaker 1: Nobody really knew they were here until they were arrested.
Speaker 1: People would be like, Oh, I think I saw Angela
Speaker 1: and Jake at Jackson Walmart, which is a completely different county.
Speaker 1: I think they were going there, so they weren't noticed,
Speaker 1: and everybody's like, no, there's no way. Then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden they were arrested, and we're like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: maybe it was true. They were back into town. But
Speaker 1: if you drive by Plug's house, like the wagoner's vehicles
Speaker 1: are still there, it's still as if it was the
Speaker 1: day they were arrested. Nothing has been best with or moved.
Speaker 1: Somebody cuts the grass, but as far as like they're
Speaker 1: stuff still being in there, it is still there. Can
Speaker 1: you paint the picture for me? So like a brick
Speaker 1: ranch home with you know, like a big grawl lot
Speaker 1: and they're still kind of stuff out. It still kind
Speaker 1: of looks like it did when Plug own didn't but
Speaker 1: there's like vehicles setting outside. They had like this really
Speaker 1: big Dodge Ram Diesel truck. When you have something like
Speaker 1: that around here, it means you have money. It's interesting
Speaker 1: that that stuff wasn't seized. Yeah, we kind you get
Speaker 1: like a Garie feeling when you drive farther too, It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's so much bad stuff that's happened in that one house.
Speaker 1: A crime goes Yeah, I mean that's where they were
Speaker 1: hiding out and potentially they were there planning those murders,
Speaker 1: So we're going to take a break. We'll be back
Speaker 1: in a moment. Sammy Joe grew up in the piked
Speaker 1: In area and was closed with both the Wagner and
Speaker 1: the Rodent families. Sammy spent a lot of time at
Speaker 1: the Wagner's home, where she found Angela to be not
Speaker 1: so much motherly as controlling. Here she is speaking with Stephanie.
Speaker 1: I grew up with the Wagner and then I dated
Speaker 1: Frankie wrote, where were you when you heard all of
Speaker 1: the news about the murders. I was standing in my
Speaker 1: living room, and I lived not tremendously far away, but
Speaker 1: I heard all the sirens and everything going on. The
Speaker 1: next thing, you know, my Facebook was all lit up
Speaker 1: with family members found dead. And I'm thinking, there ain't
Speaker 1: no way we all talk about Angela Wagner, the mom
Speaker 1: of killers, as being in the mastermind. Oh, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: put a pastor if Angela said jump and you didn't
Speaker 1: say how high Angela got mapped, especially with Jake. Jake
Speaker 1: was her baby. Like if Angela didn't like me, Jake
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to like me that week. I didn't come
Speaker 1: from the right family or I did her wrong in
Speaker 1: her eyes or something. What about Billy would you describe him?
Speaker 1: What was he like? He was a type of guy
Speaker 1: that he could crack a joke and you would laugh
Speaker 1: for days. My dad had a stroke, a massive brain
Speaker 1: laying a stroke, and I remember writing Angela and I said, hey,
Speaker 1: this is Samantha Brian Frederick's daughter. I need to get
Speaker 1: ahold of Billy. And Billy got ahold of me, and
Speaker 1: I told him my fight listened. The house that we're
Speaker 1: living in the floor falling through. They will not let
Speaker 1: my dad come home and let I get the floor fit.
Speaker 1: Billy showed up with plywood feed for my animals. He
Speaker 1: had bought me cinnamon products, a shampoo conditioner, like he
Speaker 1: was there to help, like in his mom. I got
Speaker 1: ahold of Billy and I'd say, listen, my mom's behind
Speaker 1: on the electric bill. We're in disconnect. They're literally shutting
Speaker 1: us off. We need a good amount of money. And
Speaker 1: Frederika got ahold of us and she paid our electric bill.
Speaker 1: They wasn't bad people. I mean they're bad people now,
Speaker 1: but I honestly, in my opinion, I don't think they
Speaker 1: were all in vault. I think there was other people
Speaker 1: in ball under Angela's demand, right, is it possible that
Speaker 1: they weren't even there and that maybe other people were
Speaker 1: there that night. In my opinion, yes, I think they know,
Speaker 1: but they won't speak about it. I think the boys
Speaker 1: know what happened, and if they speak about it, they'll
Speaker 1: be dead. And that's my opinion. Jake and George was
Speaker 1: always homeschooled, like they were never in public schools. The
Speaker 1: public systems that Angela was not good enough for her boy,
Speaker 1: so her teaching her kids was better. I don't know
Speaker 1: how much better that was, but it was teaching them
Speaker 1: pretty much. What Angela said goes like she's off the
Speaker 1: vibe of like if she said you're going to rub
Speaker 1: a bank and you tell her no, like she gets scary.
Speaker 1: I love the boys to death. They're a little weird,
Speaker 1: but I love them to death. I remember decades ago
Speaker 1: we all went to the bull riding thing and Billy
Speaker 1: and her got my little argument. I've never seen a
Speaker 1: grown man in an argument shut up so fast in
Speaker 1: my life, Like the argument was over within seconds. It
Speaker 1: was controlling, is what it was. And have you been
Speaker 1: in the house when all of them were home at
Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, the house was always quiet, very quiet.
Speaker 1: Normally would be Billy sitting there in a chair grinding
Speaker 1: his teeth, just sitting there watching TV. That would be
Speaker 1: like the living room area. Angela would normally in their
Speaker 1: cooking and then off. All that in the bag was
Speaker 1: the boys' room. To the left was Georgie's room, until
Speaker 1: the right was Jake's room. Of course, typical boys, you're
Speaker 1: going to have to your heads and guns in there.
Speaker 1: And that's pretty much the house. I can't remember a
Speaker 1: time that they were one of the houses burnt down
Speaker 1: and they were living in a shack and they were
Speaker 1: all cramped up in this little living room area and
Speaker 1: I'm standing there by the door with my dad. It
Speaker 1: was so quiet you could hear a pin drop. As
Speaker 1: a reminder, this is Sammy Joe's recollection of events. I
Speaker 1: could tell you every place that they had, every place
Speaker 1: that burned down. I can't prove that it was in Churce,
Speaker 1: but that many houses. There's the trailer, trailer, slush house,
Speaker 1: the building. There's like a good four or five places
Speaker 1: at Burndale pluses in my truck. There wasn't anybody home
Speaker 1: or in the houses when they burnt down. Correct We've
Speaker 1: heard for several years about suspicious fires related to Angela
Speaker 1: and Billy Wagner, but have never been able to speak
Speaker 1: out about it. However, now these allegations have been substantiated
Speaker 1: in court. On May second, twenty two, Special Prosecutor Angie
Speaker 1: Kneppa references arson in connection with the Wagner family multiple times.
Speaker 1: Some of these acts are alleged. Some of these we
Speaker 1: have again high levels of proof, specifically number one, multiple
Speaker 1: instances of arson of various properties for their own financial gain.
Speaker 1: Everybody in the conspiracy has their own role, and they
Speaker 1: carry out that role. Ironically. Oftentimes Angela absents herself from
Speaker 1: the crime itself. The men Jake, George and Billy carry
Speaker 1: out the crime, and then they have a story, cover
Speaker 1: up story. I probably had a chance to talk to George.
Speaker 1: I honestly would, because I just want to know why
Speaker 1: I actually want fishing with George. Shortly after and it
Speaker 1: got brought up, Wait, you went fishing with George Wagner
Speaker 1: after the murders, I asked him. I was like, I
Speaker 1: can't believe this happened. And because him and Frankie after
Speaker 1: a while got row close. As terrible as it is
Speaker 1: to say, now victim Frankie Rodin and accused murderer George
Speaker 1: Wagner were known to be good friends. Sammy Job calls
Speaker 1: the time when Frankie Rodin was standing up to Jake
Speaker 1: Wagner to defend his sister Hannah May. I did hear
Speaker 1: about Frankie and Jay getting into it, because I guess
Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah got into it and Jake had hit Hannah.
Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt, but just for clarity, you're referring to
Speaker 1: to victim Frankie Rodin Hadame Rodin's older brother, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I don't know. I wasn't there or that's just
Speaker 1: what I was told. But George like shut me out,
Speaker 1: like he goes, how could we do it? Because they
Speaker 1: were already being questioned who was going to be there
Speaker 1: with the kids, And I was like, well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was like, there's just something wrong. Like he totally
Speaker 1: shut me out. Like I knew sometime was wrong that
Speaker 1: day when we were talking about it, like our vision
Speaker 1: trip was going good and it got run roll fucked.
Speaker 1: Like I talked to them why they were in Alaska?
Speaker 1: Tell me about the Alaska piece. Why Alaska that's been
Speaker 1: the boys' dream since they were Mehi to Grosshopper. Do
Speaker 1: you know if Angela and Hannah at any point had
Speaker 1: a positive relationship, even back in the early days. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: one one time. They loved each other as far as
Speaker 1: I know. But Angelo was the type of person if
Speaker 1: you say or do something out of the way, you're
Speaker 1: a bad person. Why, I think, honestly because Hannah was
Speaker 1: the type of person. But first I know that's what
Speaker 1: I mean. And Angela wasn't getting her way with the custody,
Speaker 1: And I honestly feel like, and this was my opinion,
Speaker 1: Angela was afraid that Hannah was going to take away
Speaker 1: all visitations and that's how it was going to be.
Speaker 1: Not only did Sammy Joe know the Wagner family, but
Speaker 1: she also knew the Rodents intimately when they were very
Speaker 1: much alive. She spent a lot of time at mother
Speaker 1: Diana Roden's house sitting her boyfriend Frankie. How old were
Speaker 1: you when you dated Frankie Rodin. I dated him from
Speaker 1: seventh grade to like ninth grade. He was fun and
Speaker 1: you just like the rest of him, like he was
Speaker 1: so well going, give the shirt off his back, caring Malsee.
Speaker 1: When you were dating Frankie, did you spend any time
Speaker 1: at the road and home? What were they like? What
Speaker 1: was their home like? It was fun, like it was
Speaker 1: a live like that place was alive. Frankie would write
Speaker 1: a bus home with me. Mostly I write a bus
Speaker 1: home with them and just spend a lot of time
Speaker 1: out there. I spent more time than even at my
Speaker 1: own house. And was Dana close with Frankie? Oh that
Speaker 1: was her baby boy? Like should hurt someone over her kids?
Speaker 1: Could you physically describe her? Like? What did she look like?
Speaker 1: Her hair was always sure? We always called her fluffy.
Speaker 1: She was about five to seven, very loud, but yeah,
Speaker 1: like I never wanted to go home, like I actually
Speaker 1: felt like I was wanted. She would go out of
Speaker 1: your way like my dream shoes was I called him
Speaker 1: Abby's shoes like they were the very long shoes that
Speaker 1: zip up the back. I can't remember what they're called
Speaker 1: now and her and Frankie Blomingham. I had those shoes
Speaker 1: for years. Did you know Hannah Gilly Frankie lover? You
Speaker 1: could tell Sammy Joe shared a recollection she had about
Speaker 1: Hanna me roudin Hannah. She would drive past my house
Speaker 1: just honking, and she drove by Honk and I was
Speaker 1: on my porch. She was I'll see you later. I
Speaker 1: called to see you later, and I didn't get to
Speaker 1: see her later because she was dead the next day.
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. While Sammy Joe's relationship
Speaker 1: with Angela was similar to what we've heard from other
Speaker 1: people and in childs that she was controlling and suspicious.
Speaker 1: Like all people, Angela is different things to different people.
Speaker 1: Here's Howe, a family friend who knew the Wagners both
Speaker 1: in Ohio and Alaska. My understanding is that you had
Speaker 1: a very close relationship with the Wagner family. I grew
Speaker 1: up with them and went to church and them and
Speaker 1: things like that. Tell me about them. What were they like?
Speaker 1: I always thought they were great people. I've stated at
Speaker 1: their house multiple times. Like I said, I've gone to
Speaker 1: church with them growing up. It's kind of like a
Speaker 1: second family to me. I thought they were decent people.
Speaker 1: Did you remember anything about Angela Wagner. I just remember
Speaker 1: her being the typical mom. In a million years, I
Speaker 1: have never thought she could plot anything or do anything
Speaker 1: of this sort of caliber. Like I said, just the
Speaker 1: typical mom. She reminds me of my own mother. What
Speaker 1: about her specifically was typical in your opinion, her attitude,
Speaker 1: you know, just the standard mom. You know, the way
Speaker 1: she looks. You look at her and you see mom
Speaker 1: like she's just that friendly of a person. Just her
Speaker 1: attitude in general, she's a welcoming person. You had mentioned Alaska.
Speaker 1: Did you live in Alaska or did you visit them
Speaker 1: while the Wagoners were in Alaska? I lived in Alaska
Speaker 1: and they came up and visited. Tell me how old
Speaker 1: were you at that point? I was probably thirteen fourteen
Speaker 1: somewhere around there, just you know, a young teenager. They
Speaker 1: were a little older than I was, so we didn't
Speaker 1: really hang out a whole lot. Then I went fishing
Speaker 1: with him once or twice in Alaska. Why Alaska do
Speaker 1: you think? I think the real thing was the pastor
Speaker 1: in Alaska was also the pastor in the church in
Speaker 1: Ohio that they went to, and they knew my grandparents,
Speaker 1: so they had a lot of people up here that
Speaker 1: in Alaska is just the place that everybody wants to
Speaker 1: come and visit. So I assume that you know, they
Speaker 1: wanted to come to see old friends and things like that.
Speaker 1: And when they came, that was before the massacre. Correct, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was before. It's at least thing serious. Why they
Speaker 1: went to Alaska and moreover, why would they go back
Speaker 1: to Pike County. They came the first time to visit
Speaker 1: and then the whole Pike County massacre thing happened, and
Speaker 1: they came back to Alaska, but they had no contact
Speaker 1: with anybody. They didn't talk to any of us, Like
Speaker 1: we reached out, were like, hey, what's up, how are
Speaker 1: you guys? We're sorry this happened, and they never once
Speaker 1: talked to us. They moved to a different city. I
Speaker 1: believe they lived in Saladna or Cassia Lock or something
Speaker 1: like that, and they never had any sort of contact
Speaker 1: with me, my grandparents and my sisters, the pastor nothing.
Speaker 1: What do you make to that? It was definitely strange
Speaker 1: hearing people were murdered, then they show up out of
Speaker 1: nowhere coming back to Alaska. It was it was definitely fishy.
Speaker 1: And that's when I kind of cut ties, you know,
Speaker 1: just just to be on the stais. I didn't want
Speaker 1: to be involved in anything of that sort. When they
Speaker 1: were in fact arrested for the murders, that must have
Speaker 1: been a huge shock. Oh, I cried, I said in
Speaker 1: my apartment, and I cried live for my art because
Speaker 1: she's just, you know, one of the sweetest people ever.
Speaker 1: I just don't think it's going to add up. And
Speaker 1: I think people do dumb thing for their family. People
Speaker 1: say they do anything for their family, and I think
Speaker 1: she did do anything for her family, as terrible as
Speaker 1: it was. As we continue speaking with more people, much
Speaker 1: more information is coming out, including other acts the Wagners
Speaker 1: have allegedly committed over the years. This is according to prosecutors,
Speaker 1: the Wagner family tracked her, they threatened her, they threatened
Speaker 1: her family's lives. The family definitely on that side. They
Speaker 1: did stuff to make money other than legally. It begs
Speaker 1: the question of how why their net is spread and
Speaker 1: what other people may be involved. For the first time
Speaker 1: on this podcast, we'll hear Jake Wagner's ex wife Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: They keep being asked, did you know Jake Wagner was
Speaker 1: a murderer before you married him? What I'm getting real say, ooh,
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with the murders. This voice belongs
Speaker 1: to another person who has requested anonymity due to their
Speaker 1: proximity to the Wagner family. Is Angela. The monster or
Speaker 1: did she marry into monsters. I feel like Jilly's a
Speaker 1: type that would pay someone in prison to kill his
Speaker 1: own kids. More on that next time. For more information
Speaker 1: on case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios.
Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane,
Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed
Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by
Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of
Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.