1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: After the massacre occurred, but before her arrest, mother Angela 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: Wagner took to social media to speak out about the victims. 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Here's an excerpt from one of those posts. What has 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: happened to us in the past few weeks has been 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: devastating and it will follow us for the rest of 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: our lives. Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: her dearly. Her laws still hurts to this day. We 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: want justice like everyone else. Let's try to find the 9 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: real monsters who've done this. Turns out she was the monster. 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: This is the Pike Did Massacre A production of Katie 11 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: Studios and iHeartRadio Season three, Episode two Monsters. I'm Courtney Armstrong, 12 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 1: a television producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Ledecker and 13 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, and preparation for this season, We've been speaking 14 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,839 Speaker 1: to many sources in and around Pike County who would 15 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: not go on the record before, probably because they were scared, 16 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: but now they are ready to talk. In some cases 17 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: they were fearing retribution, including those close to Angela. There 18 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: are so many perspectives on Mom Angela Wagner, and it 19 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: begs the question, is it possible for a human being 20 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: to be all things at once. Throughout all of these 21 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 1: conversations and interviews, we've learned a lot more about the victims, 22 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 1: the Rodent family, and the alleged killers, the Wagners. This 23 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: includes other theories and information that goes generations deep, and 24 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: some of it has far reaching and sometimes nefarious tentacles. 25 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: Here's what we know about Angela Wagner. She had a 26 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: mother named Rita Newcome. I actually met her in person, 27 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: was in her home just days after she was released. 28 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: And she was married to a man named Pug Carter, 29 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: Angela's father. They at some point divorced, Rita remarried and 30 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: had a second child, twenty years younger, her half brother, 31 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: Chris Newcomb. Chris has agreed to speak with us for 32 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: the podcast on the record for the very first time. 33 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 1: Has now a good time? Do you have a minute? Well? 34 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: What would you wanting to know? You are Angela's half brother. 35 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: Explain that all to me, Like how you're related and 36 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 1: how much younger you are. Angela is my half sister 37 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: from my mom's first marriage. We got the same mom. 38 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: She is twenty years older than I am. Well, here's 39 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: my backstory that I can give for your radio thing. 40 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: I grew up with George and Jake, like my brothers. 41 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,119 Speaker 1: I was always closer to George than I was with Jake. 42 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: George would do anything in the world for anybody out 43 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: of Never in my life thought this out of him. 44 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: Jake on he has hand, I'd have never thought it 45 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: out of him either. But he's always been a little odd. 46 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: I mean, he just always has been. My sister met 47 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: here never really got along that well. Jake ain't no 48 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: better in my opinion, and I got nothing for him 49 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: at all. Billy's Billy. He's always been Billy. I mean, 50 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: everybody was trying to say. And he might have been 51 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: the brains of the operation that some bitches stamp film. 52 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: He couldn't hit the ground with his hat three tries, 53 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: So you didn't really grow up with her. I never 54 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: grew up with her at all, hardly. I mean when 55 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: I wasn't even a year old, I was like nine, 56 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: ten months old, she got pregnant with George, her oldest boy, 57 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: which would be my nephew. How did you see any 58 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: of them, George, Jay, Cancel or Billy And back when 59 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: I was a kid, hell, I was always I had 60 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: to go over and spend the night for two three 61 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 1: weeks at a time. Oh wow. Hell, I spent several 62 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: summers over there, and when we got older and stuff 63 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: like that. I'd see George when every swung by or 64 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: he'd called and say, hey, we're gonna go hunting and 65 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: we're gonna move fishing. So we'd all go out and 66 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: do that. So you might grow up with Jake and 67 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: George being your peers. Oh yeah, yeah, we grew up 68 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: more like brothers than we did uncle and nephews. I mean, 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: we as close as hell. When of these kids, she'd 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: treat me as one of the kids. But it just, 71 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: I don't know, it seemed cold. Whenever she had to 72 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: do something for me. It wasn't like a like a 73 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: warming feeling, like you know here I want I want 74 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: to help you have fun, or I want to help 75 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: you out do this. It was just cold. Was she 76 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: liked that with the boys too? Are just yell, not 77 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: really just made Mainly, I don't think she liked me much. 78 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: Why Why do you think that is? I don't know. 79 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: I didn't like her either, so I kind of worked 80 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: out I never looked into my sister was very controlling person. 81 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: Whenever rise around, she always tried to control every aspect 82 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: that I did, and I pretty much told her go 83 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: to hell and that was the end of it. But 84 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: I mean she pretty much controlled every aspect of their life, 85 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,679 Speaker 1: right down to their social media, their Facebook, their Message 86 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 1: or Twitter. They're fucking uh, their dating sites. They had 87 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: dating sites, and she actually had the information for their 88 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: dating sites. She had to passwords to it. No. Yes, 89 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: So when you were a kid and you would spend 90 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: summers there or extended periods of time, Angela was your sister. 91 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: But I imagine treated you like a mom. You should 92 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: probably helped cook for you and treated you like one 93 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: of the boys. Was she kind to you that or 94 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: was she always judge? Kind of a mixture of both. 95 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: She was kind of a judge, kind of fake. What 96 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: do you mean by that? It just seemed like she 97 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: would be nice, but it was all like an act 98 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: because she always told me, she said I'll never amount 99 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: to anything. And she didn't tell just me that, she 100 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: told other people that. She said that I would never 101 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: amount to nothing and I'd probably end up spending the 102 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: rest of my life in jail. I almost want to 103 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: answer a phone call from her just to laugh at her. Wow, 104 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: you mentioned you and Angela were raised differently. How would 105 00:05:58,080 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: you describe how you were raised and how would you 106 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: say how she was raised. I wasn't around whenever she 107 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: was being raised, you know, I wouldn't even have thought 108 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 1: then mom was still married to her dad, Pug or 109 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: Eddie Edward Carter. He was always a good old guy. 110 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: I knew him, ra Will you like Pug? Oh? I 111 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: thought the world Pug Eddie Carter, better known as Pug, 112 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: was Angela Wagner's father. We didn't know much about him 113 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: or Angela's upbringing and how that might have shaped the 114 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: person she is until now. Here's Jeff speaking to an 115 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: anonymous friend of the Carter family who reached out to us. 116 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: Your message is really interesting to me. I would love 117 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: to just kind of like hear all of it. And 118 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: now you found this information out on what your take 119 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: on all of it is. I grew up in South Webster, 120 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: where the Wagners came back from Alaska's where they moved to, 121 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: and the actual house that they lived in was the 122 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: house of her dad. I knew him as a Pug Carter. 123 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: He always wore this like metal brace and he walked 124 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: with a limp. He heard from my dad was that 125 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: he would climb electric poles and steal copper or something 126 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: off of the poles, and he's gotten electric uted and 127 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: it affected his walking. When money would get tight by 128 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: Black would go like pawn things to little but he 129 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: ran like a I guess it would be illegal pawnshop 130 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: where people would go take like small tools, long equitable, 131 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. I think he'd gotten in 132 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: trouble for forgery. One time. People would take their vehicle 133 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: titles and pawned them to him for money, and he 134 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: got to where he would like he would forge the 135 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: titles and sell the vehicles, so people were like losing cars. 136 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: So somebody eventually took him to court for that. And 137 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: he'd done that for several years before he got in 138 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: trouble for him, and that's the reason why Dad quit 139 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: feeling with him. Explain that to me. So I would 140 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: take my car title and sell it to him. You 141 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: would pawn it him, so you would give him your 142 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: title and he would give you a couple hundred dollars 143 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: and you'd pay it back, or once you paid him back, 144 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: he would give your title back. But then he started 145 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: like selling the vehicles before people had a chance to 146 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: pay him back. The whole opioid epidemics started around here, 147 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: and I guess he'd gotten into pills and stuff and 148 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: he was started selling drugs as well as running this 149 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: underground pawn shop he was doing. There isn't a lot 150 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: of information out there about Puck Carter, but what we 151 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: could find included a criminal record filled with arrests for assault, 152 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: receiving stolen property, and truck possession. From what I remember 153 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: is that there was like an undercover seeing where the 154 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: police were going to his house and purchasing and selling drugs. 155 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: So actual drug bust is how he got caught. But 156 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: the reason Michael Moran came into is Michael Moran he 157 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 1: was like the cheaper lawyer. So if you were kind 158 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: of poorer on like the lower income level, he would 159 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: work out a deal where you didn't have to pay 160 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: as much for a lawyer like he was who all 161 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: the poorer people went to. And I think that's really 162 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: how he got to where he could target prostitutes and stuff, 163 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: is because they were lower income and they could afford 164 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: his services. It's not a surprise to me that her 165 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: dad had him as a lawyer. It's important to note 166 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 1: that the recollections that Michael Moran was put Carter's attorney 167 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: is strictly the first hand account of our anonymous source. 168 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie and Jeff. We talked about Michael Moran in 169 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: season two. He's an attorney and a former city councilman 170 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: in Portsmouth, which is about twenty five miles south of 171 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: Pike County. He had multiple allegations against him, including sex trafficking, 172 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: the disappearance of several young women connected to him personally, 173 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: and the possible murder of another at the age of 174 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: seventy five while out on bail and awaiting trial for 175 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: promoting prostitution, compelling prostitution, human trafficking, and engaging in a 176 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: pattern of corrupt activity. Michael Moran died in November of 177 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. There's a place called Big Bear Lake 178 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: that has come up a lot over the year in 179 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: our research. It's this spot not too far from Pike 180 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: County that people go to on vacation. Essentially, it's like 181 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: a holiday location. We're going to discuss this further, but 182 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: it's also been alleged that it's a spot where sex 183 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: trafficking happens, drug trafficking happens, and potentially there's a connection 184 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: between Michael Moran and the Wagner family. I have to 185 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: be really honest, my mouth dropped when we heard the 186 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: connection between Pug Carter, Angela Wagner's father, and Michael Moran. 187 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: It's full circle. It just further speaks to this idea 188 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: that Pike County and the surrounding area is where people 189 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: in power continue to stay in power by abusing other people. 190 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: It also points to a larger plot here. Angie was 191 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: always really close with her dad, Like I remember her 192 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 1: being at her dad's often, like she took care of 193 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: her dad. What I've heard locally is that's why they 194 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: came back from Alaska's because Billy's dad had died and 195 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: her dadded night they needed to settle those estates, and 196 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: then they ended up moving into his house to Plug's house, 197 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: and that's where they lived when they were arrested. Did 198 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: you have any interaction with them when they came back. No, 199 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: Nobody really knew they were here until they were arrested. 200 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 1: People would be like, Oh, I think I saw Angela 201 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: and Jake at Jackson Walmart, which is a completely different county. 202 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 1: I think they were going there, so they weren't noticed, 203 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: and everybody's like, no, there's no way. Then all of 204 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: a sudden they were arrested, and we're like, oh, well, 205 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: maybe it was true. They were back into town. But 206 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: if you drive by Plug's house, like the wagoner's vehicles 207 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: are still there, it's still as if it was the 208 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: day they were arrested. Nothing has been best with or moved. 209 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 1: Somebody cuts the grass, but as far as like they're 210 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: stuff still being in there, it is still there. Can 211 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: you paint the picture for me? So like a brick 212 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: ranch home with you know, like a big grawl lot 213 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: and they're still kind of stuff out. It still kind 214 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: of looks like it did when Plug own didn't but 215 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: there's like vehicles setting outside. They had like this really 216 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: big Dodge Ram Diesel truck. When you have something like 217 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,079 Speaker 1: that around here, it means you have money. It's interesting 218 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: that that stuff wasn't seized. Yeah, we kind you get 219 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: like a Garie feeling when you drive farther too, It's like, oh, 220 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: there's so much bad stuff that's happened in that one house. 221 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: A crime goes Yeah, I mean that's where they were 222 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: hiding out and potentially they were there planning those murders, 223 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: So we're going to take a break. We'll be back 224 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: in a moment. Sammy Joe grew up in the piked 225 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: In area and was closed with both the Wagner and 226 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 1: the Rodent families. Sammy spent a lot of time at 227 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: the Wagner's home, where she found Angela to be not 228 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: so much motherly as controlling. Here she is speaking with Stephanie. 229 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: I grew up with the Wagner and then I dated 230 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: Frankie wrote, where were you when you heard all of 231 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: the news about the murders. I was standing in my 232 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: living room, and I lived not tremendously far away, but 233 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: I heard all the sirens and everything going on. The 234 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: next thing, you know, my Facebook was all lit up 235 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: with family members found dead. And I'm thinking, there ain't 236 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: no way we all talk about Angela Wagner, the mom 237 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,640 Speaker 1: of killers, as being in the mastermind. Oh, I wouldn't 238 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: put a pastor if Angela said jump and you didn't 239 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: say how high Angela got mapped, especially with Jake. Jake 240 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: was her baby. Like if Angela didn't like me, Jake 241 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to like me that week. I didn't come 242 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: from the right family or I did her wrong in 243 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: her eyes or something. What about Billy would you describe him? 244 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: What was he like? He was a type of guy 245 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: that he could crack a joke and you would laugh 246 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: for days. My dad had a stroke, a massive brain 247 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: laying a stroke, and I remember writing Angela and I said, hey, 248 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: this is Samantha Brian Frederick's daughter. I need to get 249 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: ahold of Billy. And Billy got ahold of me, and 250 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: I told him my fight listened. The house that we're 251 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: living in the floor falling through. They will not let 252 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: my dad come home and let I get the floor fit. 253 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: Billy showed up with plywood feed for my animals. He 254 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: had bought me cinnamon products, a shampoo conditioner, like he 255 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: was there to help, like in his mom. I got 256 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: ahold of Billy and I'd say, listen, my mom's behind 257 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: on the electric bill. We're in disconnect. They're literally shutting 258 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: us off. We need a good amount of money. And 259 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: Frederika got ahold of us and she paid our electric bill. 260 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 1: They wasn't bad people. I mean they're bad people now, 261 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: but I honestly, in my opinion, I don't think they 262 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: were all in vault. I think there was other people 263 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: in ball under Angela's demand, right, is it possible that 264 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: they weren't even there and that maybe other people were 265 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: there that night. In my opinion, yes, I think they know, 266 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: but they won't speak about it. I think the boys 267 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: know what happened, and if they speak about it, they'll 268 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: be dead. And that's my opinion. Jake and George was 269 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: always homeschooled, like they were never in public schools. The 270 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 1: public systems that Angela was not good enough for her boy, 271 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: so her teaching her kids was better. I don't know 272 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: how much better that was, but it was teaching them 273 00:15:55,040 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: pretty much. What Angela said goes like she's off the 274 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: vibe of like if she said you're going to rub 275 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: a bank and you tell her no, like she gets scary. 276 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: I love the boys to death. They're a little weird, 277 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: but I love them to death. I remember decades ago 278 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: we all went to the bull riding thing and Billy 279 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: and her got my little argument. I've never seen a 280 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: grown man in an argument shut up so fast in 281 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: my life, Like the argument was over within seconds. It 282 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: was controlling, is what it was. And have you been 283 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: in the house when all of them were home at 284 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, the house was always quiet, very quiet. 285 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: Normally would be Billy sitting there in a chair grinding 286 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: his teeth, just sitting there watching TV. That would be 287 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: like the living room area. Angela would normally in their 288 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: cooking and then off. All that in the bag was 289 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 1: the boys' room. To the left was Georgie's room, until 290 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: the right was Jake's room. Of course, typical boys, you're 291 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: going to have to your heads and guns in there. 292 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: And that's pretty much the house. I can't remember a 293 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: time that they were one of the houses burnt down 294 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: and they were living in a shack and they were 295 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: all cramped up in this little living room area and 296 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: I'm standing there by the door with my dad. It 297 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: was so quiet you could hear a pin drop. As 298 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: a reminder, this is Sammy Joe's recollection of events. I 299 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: could tell you every place that they had, every place 300 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,919 Speaker 1: that burned down. I can't prove that it was in Churce, 301 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: but that many houses. There's the trailer, trailer, slush house, 302 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: the building. There's like a good four or five places 303 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: at Burndale pluses in my truck. There wasn't anybody home 304 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:05,639 Speaker 1: or in the houses when they burnt down. Correct We've 305 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: heard for several years about suspicious fires related to Angela 306 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: and Billy Wagner, but have never been able to speak 307 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: out about it. However, now these allegations have been substantiated 308 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: in court. On May second, twenty two, Special Prosecutor Angie 309 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: Kneppa references arson in connection with the Wagner family multiple times. 310 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: Some of these acts are alleged. Some of these we 311 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: have again high levels of proof, specifically number one, multiple 312 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 1: instances of arson of various properties for their own financial gain. 313 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: Everybody in the conspiracy has their own role, and they 314 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: carry out that role. Ironically. Oftentimes Angela absents herself from 315 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: the crime itself. The men Jake, George and Billy carry 316 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: out the crime, and then they have a story, cover 317 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: up story. I probably had a chance to talk to George. 318 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: I honestly would, because I just want to know why 319 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: I actually want fishing with George. Shortly after and it 320 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: got brought up, Wait, you went fishing with George Wagner 321 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: after the murders, I asked him. I was like, I 322 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: can't believe this happened. And because him and Frankie after 323 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: a while got row close. As terrible as it is 324 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: to say, now victim Frankie Rodin and accused murderer George 325 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: Wagner were known to be good friends. Sammy Job calls 326 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: the time when Frankie Rodin was standing up to Jake 327 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: Wagner to defend his sister Hannah May. I did hear 328 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: about Frankie and Jay getting into it, because I guess 329 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah got into it and Jake had hit Hannah. 330 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt, but just for clarity, you're referring to 331 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: to victim Frankie Rodin Hadame Rodin's older brother, right, Yeah, 332 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: but I don't know. I wasn't there or that's just 333 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: what I was told. But George like shut me out, 334 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: like he goes, how could we do it? Because they 335 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: were already being questioned who was going to be there 336 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: with the kids, And I was like, well, I don't know. 337 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: I was like, there's just something wrong. Like he totally 338 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: shut me out. Like I knew sometime was wrong that 339 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: day when we were talking about it, like our vision 340 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: trip was going good and it got run roll fucked. 341 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: Like I talked to them why they were in Alaska? 342 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: Tell me about the Alaska piece. Why Alaska that's been 343 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: the boys' dream since they were Mehi to Grosshopper. Do 344 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: you know if Angela and Hannah at any point had 345 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: a positive relationship, even back in the early days. Oh yeah, 346 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: one one time. They loved each other as far as 347 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: I know. But Angelo was the type of person if 348 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,479 Speaker 1: you say or do something out of the way, you're 349 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: a bad person. Why, I think, honestly because Hannah was 350 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: the type of person. But first I know that's what 351 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 1: I mean. And Angela wasn't getting her way with the custody, 352 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: And I honestly feel like, and this was my opinion, 353 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: Angela was afraid that Hannah was going to take away 354 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: all visitations and that's how it was going to be. 355 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: Not only did Sammy Joe know the Wagner family, but 356 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: she also knew the Rodents intimately when they were very 357 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: much alive. She spent a lot of time at mother 358 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: Diana Roden's house sitting her boyfriend Frankie. How old were 359 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: you when you dated Frankie Rodin. I dated him from 360 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: seventh grade to like ninth grade. He was fun and 361 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: you just like the rest of him, like he was 362 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: so well going, give the shirt off his back, caring Malsee. 363 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: When you were dating Frankie, did you spend any time 364 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 1: at the road and home? What were they like? What 365 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: was their home like? It was fun, like it was 366 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: a live like that place was alive. Frankie would write 367 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: a bus home with me. Mostly I write a bus 368 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: home with them and just spend a lot of time 369 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: out there. I spent more time than even at my 370 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: own house. And was Dana close with Frankie? Oh that 371 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: was her baby boy? Like should hurt someone over her kids? 372 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: Could you physically describe her? Like? What did she look like? 373 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: Her hair was always sure? We always called her fluffy. 374 00:22:55,720 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: She was about five to seven, very loud, but yeah, 375 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: like I never wanted to go home, like I actually 376 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: felt like I was wanted. She would go out of 377 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: your way like my dream shoes was I called him 378 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: Abby's shoes like they were the very long shoes that 379 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: zip up the back. I can't remember what they're called 380 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: now and her and Frankie Blomingham. I had those shoes 381 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 1: for years. Did you know Hannah Gilly Frankie lover? You 382 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: could tell Sammy Joe shared a recollection she had about 383 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: Hanna me roudin Hannah. She would drive past my house 384 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: just honking, and she drove by Honk and I was 385 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: on my porch. She was I'll see you later. I 386 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: called to see you later, and I didn't get to 387 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: see her later because she was dead the next day. 388 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. While Sammy Joe's relationship 389 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 1: with Angela was similar to what we've heard from other 390 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 1: people and in childs that she was controlling and suspicious. 391 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: Like all people, Angela is different things to different people. 392 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: Here's Howe, a family friend who knew the Wagners both 393 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 1: in Ohio and Alaska. My understanding is that you had 394 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: a very close relationship with the Wagner family. I grew 395 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: up with them and went to church and them and 396 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: things like that. Tell me about them. What were they like? 397 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: I always thought they were great people. I've stated at 398 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: their house multiple times. Like I said, I've gone to 399 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: church with them growing up. It's kind of like a 400 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: second family to me. I thought they were decent people. 401 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: Did you remember anything about Angela Wagner. I just remember 402 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: her being the typical mom. In a million years, I 403 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: have never thought she could plot anything or do anything 404 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,000 Speaker 1: of this sort of caliber. Like I said, just the 405 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: typical mom. She reminds me of my own mother. What 406 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: about her specifically was typical in your opinion, her attitude, 407 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: you know, just the standard mom. You know, the way 408 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: she looks. You look at her and you see mom 409 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: like she's just that friendly of a person. Just her 410 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,959 Speaker 1: attitude in general, she's a welcoming person. You had mentioned Alaska. 411 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: Did you live in Alaska or did you visit them 412 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: while the Wagoners were in Alaska? I lived in Alaska 413 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: and they came up and visited. Tell me how old 414 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: were you at that point? I was probably thirteen fourteen 415 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 1: somewhere around there, just you know, a young teenager. They 416 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: were a little older than I was, so we didn't 417 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: really hang out a whole lot. Then I went fishing 418 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: with him once or twice in Alaska. Why Alaska do 419 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: you think? I think the real thing was the pastor 420 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: in Alaska was also the pastor in the church in 421 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: Ohio that they went to, and they knew my grandparents, 422 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: so they had a lot of people up here that 423 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: in Alaska is just the place that everybody wants to 424 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: come and visit. So I assume that you know, they 425 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: wanted to come to see old friends and things like that. 426 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 1: And when they came, that was before the massacre. Correct, Yeah, 427 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: this was before. It's at least thing serious. Why they 428 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: went to Alaska and moreover, why would they go back 429 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: to Pike County. They came the first time to visit 430 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: and then the whole Pike County massacre thing happened, and 431 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: they came back to Alaska, but they had no contact 432 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 1: with anybody. They didn't talk to any of us, Like 433 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: we reached out, were like, hey, what's up, how are 434 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: you guys? We're sorry this happened, and they never once 435 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: talked to us. They moved to a different city. I 436 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: believe they lived in Saladna or Cassia Lock or something 437 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: like that, and they never had any sort of contact 438 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: with me, my grandparents and my sisters, the pastor nothing. 439 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: What do you make to that? It was definitely strange 440 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: hearing people were murdered, then they show up out of 441 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: nowhere coming back to Alaska. It was it was definitely fishy. 442 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: And that's when I kind of cut ties, you know, 443 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 1: just just to be on the stais. I didn't want 444 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: to be involved in anything of that sort. When they 445 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: were in fact arrested for the murders, that must have 446 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: been a huge shock. Oh, I cried, I said in 447 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: my apartment, and I cried live for my art because 448 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: she's just, you know, one of the sweetest people ever. 449 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: I just don't think it's going to add up. And 450 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: I think people do dumb thing for their family. People 451 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: say they do anything for their family, and I think 452 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: she did do anything for her family, as terrible as 453 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: it was. As we continue speaking with more people, much 454 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: more information is coming out, including other acts the Wagners 455 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: have allegedly committed over the years. This is according to prosecutors, 456 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 1: the Wagner family tracked her, they threatened her, they threatened 457 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: her family's lives. The family definitely on that side. They 458 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: did stuff to make money other than legally. It begs 459 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,439 Speaker 1: the question of how why their net is spread and 460 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: what other people may be involved. For the first time 461 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: on this podcast, we'll hear Jake Wagner's ex wife Elizabeth. 462 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: They keep being asked, did you know Jake Wagner was 463 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: a murderer before you married him? What I'm getting real say, ooh, 464 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with the murders. This voice belongs 465 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: to another person who has requested anonymity due to their 466 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: proximity to the Wagner family. Is Angela. The monster or 467 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: did she marry into monsters. I feel like Jilly's a 468 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: type that would pay someone in prison to kill his 469 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: own kids. More on that next time. For more information 470 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: on case photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 471 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: The Piked and Massacre is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 472 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: Chris Graves and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed 473 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: by Jeff Tis, music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by 474 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: Ken Novak. The Piked and Massacre is a production of 475 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit 476 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 477 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.