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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 2: that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating

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Speaker 2: facts and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows

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Speaker 2: and more. We are your two Nazi Hayton, Snake Fear

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Speaker 2: and Artifact Recovering Whip Totin Raiders of the Lost podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Alex Heigel and I'm Jordan run Tug.

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Speaker 1: That's very good.

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Speaker 2: Well, I didn't get the alliteration in there, but I

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Speaker 2: wanted to still have a little bit of that ratit

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Speaker 2: tad tad rhythm.

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Speaker 1: I'm not one of those things, but I'll let you

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Speaker 1: figure out which one.

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Speaker 2: Today we're talking about possibly the greatest action venture movie

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Speaker 2: of all time, the Devastating Right Cross and the one

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Speaker 2: two jab of iconic characters played by Harrison Ford, Steven Spielberg,

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Speaker 2: and George Lucas's collaborative love letter to the Mattine icons

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Speaker 2: of their youth. That's right, we're talking about Raiders of

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Speaker 2: the Lost arc. I'm told there's a new movie in

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Speaker 2: the Indiana Jones franchise out, which is shocking to me

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Speaker 2: because it ended in nineteen eighty nine.

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Speaker 1: You like seeing him get blown up by an atomic

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Speaker 1: bomb while hiding in a fridge in Crystal Skull. It

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Speaker 1: didn't do it for you, didn't do it, didn't do it,

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Speaker 1: damn thing for me.

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Speaker 2: Much like everything, really, the tide of critical reappraisal has

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Speaker 2: come back around to Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, has it?

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Speaker 3: Really?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's defenders for that movie online. Those people

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Speaker 2: are wrong. It's one of those I guess if you

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Speaker 2: evaluate it on its merits, it's fine, but it's just

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Speaker 2: something that didn't need to exist and looks like hideously dated.

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Speaker 1: And then in the new one. Are you going to

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Speaker 1: see the new one? No? Really? Now I don't give

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Speaker 1: a shit.

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Speaker 2: Ah three perfect, two pretty incredibly good films. I don't

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Speaker 2: need to see the fifth one. This movie is gonna

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Speaker 2: things up for Disney, and probably just for Disney really,

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Speaker 2: because I forget they own Lucasfilm and everybody. But this

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Speaker 2: is one of the most expensive movies ever made in

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Speaker 2: D five. It was in development for so long. It

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Speaker 2: costs like three hundred mil. And that was I think

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Speaker 2: before marketing. Oh my god. So yeah, they're taking a

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Speaker 2: bath on it, and good like I don't I like

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Speaker 2: James Mangold, the director.

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Speaker 1: He did my.

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Speaker 2: Favorite Wolverine movie, which was Logan, which's actually a beautiful,

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Speaker 2: elegaic film that with shades of like Unforgiven and really

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Speaker 2: really really great stuff. But yeah, no, I I everyone

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Speaker 2: involved in this movie, with the exception of Harrison Ford,

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Speaker 2: can go screw Maybe even Harrison Ford.

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Speaker 1: No wait, what about you can't say that about Marian

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Speaker 1: though she's in it for like five minutes. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: but she's still in it. Karen Allen's amazing, Karen Allen

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Speaker 1: is great. Everything about it pisses me off. They like

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Speaker 1: they added just like a new character they like, and

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Speaker 1: there's like a whole it's it's all just the CGI garbage.

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Speaker 1: There's the daging.

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Speaker 2: It's just they hadn't such an opportunity to do something

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Speaker 2: actually like cool with it. And then everything that I've

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Speaker 2: heard about it, and and yes, I also wikipedia the

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Speaker 2: plot because I'm not going to see it. Even the

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Speaker 2: ending of it is like a cop out. You have

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Speaker 2: to edit all this out, but like do you know, well, oh,

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Speaker 2: you you're gonna see it. I'm not gonna spoil it

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Speaker 2: for you, but like the ending is like a saccerin

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Speaker 2: cop out, which means I love it.

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Speaker 1: Uh probably, Yeah. It takes place in the sixties, it's

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Speaker 1: got Indiana Jones, it's got a saccharine ending. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: love it. What are you talking about?

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Speaker 2: I don't know that there's too much sixties stuff other

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Speaker 2: than just like the opening where they're like, well the

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Speaker 2: opening is is the d is daged? No, the opening

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Speaker 2: is daged him on a train that somebody more compared

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Speaker 2: more than one person compared it to Polar Express though

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Speaker 2: based on how bad the CDI is.

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Speaker 1: Whit is it like the RFK Funeral Train? No?

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Speaker 2: No, this is It opens up with like a flashback,

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Speaker 2: and that's where you have like really de aged Indie

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Speaker 2: because it's still Harrison, but it's like it's got like

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Speaker 2: Toby Jones and the main villain, and it's a flashback

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Speaker 2: in World War Two and it takes place on a

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Speaker 2: train and then they fast forward to nineteen sixty nine

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Speaker 2: where he's like retiring and he hates the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: Oh, oh, well, I think they rake.

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Speaker 2: I think they wake him up, Like there's like a

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Speaker 2: he gets like woken up by somebody playing. I think

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Speaker 2: Magical Mystery Tour is like a it's like a bit

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Speaker 2: that I read anyway, I'm spoiling this whole movie for you,

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Speaker 2: which is what you deserve, because it's a piece of

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Speaker 2: cash grab and I hate it.

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Speaker 1: But The First Raiders to the Lost Tark is a

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Speaker 1: perfect film, though.

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Speaker 2: I just man, it's fitting that the last movie in

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Speaker 2: this trilogy was about Eternal youth, the Promise of Eternal youth,

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Speaker 2: because this is like one of those movies where it

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Speaker 2: just gives you that like youthful rush of being a kid,

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Speaker 2: like playing in your backyard again, you know. And and

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Speaker 2: I saw it when I was like six, and it's

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Speaker 2: just instantly you're just like like you have this dim

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Speaker 2: glimmer in the back of your head that like this

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Speaker 2: isn't a real thing. Even even as a child, I

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Speaker 2: was like, this is not our archaeologists don't do this,

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Speaker 2: because I was also a dinosaur kid, so I like

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Speaker 2: I was at archaeologists actually do so I was, but

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Speaker 2: I was like, this is just the coolest thing. And

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Speaker 2: and this like sense of adventure and this you know,

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Speaker 2: Gollie g whiz wide eyed, the good guys can defeat

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Speaker 2: the Nazis with a really good punch and get the girl,

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Speaker 2: just all this great stuff. It's just It's just one

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Speaker 2: of the purest like distillations of that feeling in all

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Speaker 2: of cinema, and I'm glad it hits the same. I'd

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Speaker 2: be very sad if I went revisited this other than

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Speaker 2: all the kind of you know, white savior stuff and

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Speaker 2: blah blah blah, but other other than some of the

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Speaker 2: like things that we look at with like a progressive lens.

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Speaker 2: Now we're like that hasn't aged so well, but still

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Speaker 2: a perfect film. Yeah, I mean, you were a dinosaur kid.

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Speaker 1: I was that you come as no surprise, a very

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Speaker 1: indoor history buff nerd Even as a little boy. I

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Speaker 1: remember in preschool the boy was teasing or being mean

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Speaker 1: to a little girl I liked at recess or playing

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Speaker 1: in the backyard, and I remember running up to him

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Speaker 1: and like getting uncharacteristically like pseudo physical with him and

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Speaker 1: being like, let her go, because I think I heard

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Speaker 1: Harrison Ford say that in one of these movies. So

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Speaker 1: that's my main memory of it. Must have been Raiders. Damn.

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Speaker 1: I do love these movies. Although I mean, as I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you we've talked about this a lot, I'm more

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Speaker 1: of a last crusade guy as opposed to a Raiders

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Speaker 1: or a Temple of Doom, mostly due to my undying

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Speaker 1: allegiance to Sean Connery, who it's worth mentioning when the

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Speaker 1: Last Crusade premiere in nineteen eighty nine, he was fifty eight.

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Speaker 1: Harrison Ford is eighty and he just attended the premiere

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Speaker 1: of the new movie. That's insane. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Harrison's Ford will still punch you in the

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Speaker 2: face too for looking at him.

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Speaker 1: Cross yeah, crosssiight, ask Grian Gosling. Yeah, Raiders. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: really revisited this movie as much. Last Crusade is something

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Speaker 1: I still watch like every couple of years. But yeah, Raiders.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that it does hold up because

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Speaker 1: it's been a minute since I've seen it.

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Speaker 2: It's just great because it doesn't have any of the baggage,

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Speaker 2: Like even though they made this as a three picture deal,

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Speaker 2: which is wild to me that they were, like they

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Speaker 2: must have been really gassed on there, I mean, and

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Speaker 2: rightly so. I mean, you know, Skpielberg had made Jaws

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Speaker 2: and Close Encounters and Lucas had made two Star Wars,

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Speaker 2: but to make a three picture deal right out of

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Speaker 2: the gate on this. But it's the this is the

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Speaker 2: one that doesn't have the baggage. You know, immediately, by

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Speaker 2: the time you get to Temple of Doom, they're already

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Speaker 2: self referencing, they're already like toying with the iconography. And

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Speaker 2: then by the time you get to you know, Crusade,

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Speaker 2: it is a little freighted with its own myth yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 2: whereas this one is just such a like clean, no

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Speaker 2: nonsense film.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about Temple of Doom. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's the one.

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Speaker 2: The most divorced guy movie ever. It's fascinating. Lucas was

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Speaker 2: getting divorced and that's why it's so mean. Uh, and Spielberg,

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Speaker 2: I think was in the process of getting divorced and

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Speaker 2: was like trying to date Cape Capshaw. But it's so

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Speaker 2: like dark and violent, and you know, I'll mention this.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned this later on, but it's it's actually interesting

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Speaker 2: because it adds this shade to Indie's character where he

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Speaker 2: set he returns the thing that he the mcguffin to

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Speaker 2: the people at the end, which is I think something

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Speaker 2: that gets overlooked in the mythology of the characters, that

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Speaker 2: there's like an explicit moment where he's like, no, this

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Speaker 2: does not belong in a museum, which is really funny.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, that movie is weird.

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Speaker 2: It opens with a musical number over with him in

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Speaker 2: like a white dinner jacket, a Lah James Bond. It's

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Speaker 2: just very, very bizarre. And that's what I mean, like

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Speaker 2: they were already just kind of like hide on their

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Speaker 2: own supply by that point. This one is almost like

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Speaker 2: punk in its like manic energy and the way that

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Speaker 2: it was done on such a shoe string. We're putting

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Speaker 2: the card to the head of the horse here well,

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Speaker 2: from the exact model and species of animal that Indy's

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Speaker 2: whip is made from, to Harrison Ford's dogged insistence on

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Speaker 2: placing himself in various shades of peril for the film,

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Speaker 2: to how they pulled off that horrifying face Meltah, you

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Speaker 2: forgot about the face?

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Speaker 1: Melt Yeah, I did. I did.

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Speaker 2: Here's everything you didn't know about Raiders of the Lost Arc.

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Speaker 2: In a way, we got Raiders.

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Speaker 1: Of the Lost Arc from Francis Ford Copple.

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Speaker 2: George Lucas explained to Van Ver that early on in

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Speaker 2: his involvement with Coppola on Apocalypse Now, Coppola told him,

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Speaker 2: for your next film, why don't you try something funny,

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Speaker 2: warm and fuzzy. And he was working on Apocalypse Now

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Speaker 2: with John Milius, and early in that film's development it

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Speaker 2: was kind of like a doctor Strange law of satire,

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Speaker 2: and Lucas is like, Eh, this isn't really coming together,

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Speaker 2: and he decides to make American Graffiti instead. But by

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Speaker 2: his own admission, he's working on a few different ideas

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Speaker 2: at the time. One of them is what he called

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Speaker 2: to the American Film Institute, the idea of kind of

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Speaker 2: taking a thirty serial, using mythology and ideas from the

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Speaker 2: past and creating an adventure film. He's talked before about

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Speaker 2: wanting to make Flash Gordon. You know, he wanted to

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Speaker 2: originally make an adaptation of Flash Gordon, but he couldn't

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Speaker 2: get the rights. Then he just kind of took the

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Speaker 2: idea of a space opera serial and did all of

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Speaker 2: the stuff that he stole from Kurosawa Films to create

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Speaker 2: Star Wars, right, But he also had this idea that

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Speaker 2: he shelved, the idea for Indiana Jones that he shelved

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Speaker 2: in favor of making Star Wars. But before that even happened,

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Speaker 2: he was kicking this idea around and developing it with

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Speaker 2: a guy named Phil Kauffman, who's a director and writer

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Speaker 2: who's best known for his adaptation of The Unbearable Lightness

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Speaker 2: of Being, the nineteen seventy eight version of Invasion of

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Speaker 2: the Body Snatchers and the Right Stuff. And it's from

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Speaker 2: Phil Kaufman that we actually get the lost Ark of

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Speaker 2: the Covenant idea, this so called mcguffin. Lawrence Kasden, who

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Speaker 2: is the other big three of this film, said that

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Speaker 2: Kaufman's orthodontist told him the legend of the arc of

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Speaker 2: the Covenant when he was eleven years old. Seems like

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Speaker 2: a weird thing for a guy messing around in.

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Speaker 1: Your mouth to do. Coffin was actually supposed to direct.

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Speaker 2: Lucas wanted him to direct the project, but he abandoned

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Speaker 2: this to go direct Clint Eastwood in The Outlaw Josie Wales,

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Speaker 2: figuring it was a smart decision at the time that, hey,

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Speaker 2: Clint Eastwood is making a Western.

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Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood's a big star. Western's are big genres.

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Speaker 2: My other choice is George Lucas and his adventure serial

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Speaker 2: thing that is completely unproven.

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Speaker 1: So fast forward to nineteen seventy seven, before we go

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Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy seven, and I didn't realize that George

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Speaker 1: Lucas was involved with Apocalypse Now. What was his involvement?

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Speaker 1: Just like an early draft of it with Francisco Coppola, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and John Millius.

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Speaker 2: The Millius is the uh, the guy widely credited with

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Speaker 2: the surf characters.

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Speaker 1: You know, these are all Bay Area.

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Speaker 2: Guys, like Coppola lives in Napa, like you know, Lucas

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Speaker 2: has always been in San Francisco and in the Bay Area.

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Speaker 1: He's in Skywalker's and.

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Speaker 2: Marin and they were I don't know what the exact

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Speaker 2: connection is, but they I think might have been like

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Speaker 2: kind of known through the USC Film Network.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, he did.

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Speaker 2: He did a draft of Apocalypse Now, but he left

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Speaker 2: pretty early on.

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Speaker 1: But I love hearing stories of these guys who all

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Speaker 1: went to school together and knew each other. It's like

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Speaker 1: the it's like the Al Gore Tommy Lee Jones roommate

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Speaker 1: thing from Harvard. I love that.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's that great book, Easy Riders Rabel Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're loosely grouped under the heading of New Hollywood. I

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Speaker 2: guess Copplo was actually like some of them mentor to him.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Yeah, what am I saying? They co founded American

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Speaker 1: Zootrope together. That's their relationship. American Zootrope is a privately

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Speaker 1: run production company that Coupla has funded all of I

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Speaker 1: think all of his stuff through now is created for

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Speaker 1: The Rain People, which was his first movie in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine, and then Zoetrope financed THHX one one, three

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Speaker 1: eight and American Graffiti. So call all that hemming and

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Speaker 1: haullings that I did. That's their relationship.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and Lucas was working on Apocalypse Now with

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Speaker 2: him and John.

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Speaker 1: Millius Johnny Carson voice. I did not know that, Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Moving on to nineteen seventy seven, Yes, back Indiana Jones

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Speaker 1: and Raiders of the Lost Arc. Steven Spielberg is taking

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Speaker 1: his customary post picture vacation in Hawaii, having just wrapped

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Speaker 1: Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Well, George Lucas was

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Speaker 1: basically there in hiding. He was terrified that Star Wars

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Speaker 1: was going to be a flop, so he was hiding

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Speaker 1: out in Hawaii. Steven Spielberg told The Guardid in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one, George and I happened to be in Hawaii

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Apparently they were building a sand

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Speaker 1: castle together, which, if that's true, and I choose to

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Speaker 1: believe it is, is adorable but also a beautiful metaphor

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Speaker 1: for what was to come. Ooh yeah see yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then Disney would be the wave that would crash

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Speaker 1: and carry it all out. I guess, Spielberg continued. We

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Speaker 1: started complaining to one another about the problems you get

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Speaker 1: making these big films. He'd tell me about his difficulties

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Speaker 1: with the robots on Star Wars, and I'd tell him

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Speaker 1: about my nightmare stories about the mechanical shark in Jaws,

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Speaker 1: which he named Bruce, after his lawyer. Then I mentioned

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Speaker 1: I'd always wanted to make a James Bond picture, and

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Speaker 1: George said, I've got something better than Bond. He told

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Speaker 1: me the plot of Raiders, and he said, the very

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Speaker 1: best thing would be we wouldn't have to make a

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Speaker 1: single piece of hardware in the film. Spielberg, I guess

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Speaker 1: he really really wanted to make a Bond film so bad,

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Speaker 1: which is also kind of adorable. But he was turned

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Speaker 1: down by James Bond producer Albert Cubby Broccley twice, not once,

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Speaker 1: but twice, first for being too unknown and then the

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Speaker 1: second time because Broccoley assumed that he'd be too expensive

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Speaker 1: now that he was the biggest director in Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: Really the catch them in between the rock and a

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Speaker 2: hard place of like not getting to do your dream

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Speaker 2: project first because you're not big enough, and that it's

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Speaker 2: because you're too big.

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Speaker 1: What about now? Though? I feel like I bet you

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Speaker 1: be In our lifetime, or rather his lifetime, there will

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Speaker 1: be one Spielberg directed Bond movie. Do we think it'll

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Speaker 1: be good? He'll reboot one? No?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, he's only going to do one if he

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Speaker 2: can make it all sad and about his parents and

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Speaker 2: about movies and the stories we tell and who gets

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Speaker 2: to tell them and all that other high food and crap.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we got a reboot coming up for Bond.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's we got it. We gotta know more about

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Speaker 1: bonds backstory with his parents. That could be great, or

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Speaker 1: it could be what the franchise neats question fat. I

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Speaker 1: mean Bond in the post woke Bond, we get to

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Speaker 1: Delos trauma. I guess you're right. Actually, I know.

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Speaker 2: If he makes the yeah gets okay, new pitch gets

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Speaker 2: Steven Stielberg to do meet the Fableman's.

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Speaker 1: Style of Bond Meet the Bond with no action and

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Speaker 1: no set pieces, Bonds by blood. There we go. That's

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Speaker 1: it nice, Thank you anyway. But Spielberg, having failed to

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Speaker 1: secure a Bond film, inserted all sorts of little nods

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Speaker 1: to double O seven into the Indiana Jones franchise, from

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Speaker 1: having Indie appear in a white tux in the opening

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Speaker 1: the Temple of Doom, which he just mentioned, to having

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Speaker 1: James Bond himself Sean Connery play Indie's dad in the

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Speaker 1: Last Crusade. What is his dad's name in those movies,

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Speaker 1: h Henry Henry Jones. Yes, yes, that's what he calls India.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, Junior. No it is Henry Jones. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you're right, je. So Lawrence Kasden comes onto the project next,

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Speaker 2: and that happens because Spielberg purchased Kasden's script for a

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Speaker 2: film called Continental Divide. And these guys sit down for

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Speaker 2: what is over like a week of hour long days

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Speaker 2: of brainstorming. But let me, let me set the stage

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Speaker 2: for that first, Kasden said in the fourth entry of

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Speaker 2: the backstory book series by a guy named Patrick McGilligan,

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Speaker 2: George had already had the idea of the way that

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Speaker 2: Indie dressed, and Phil Kaufman had provided the mcguffin of

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Speaker 2: the Lost Ark of the Covenant, so we sat down

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Speaker 2: and decided on what kind of hero Indiana Jones would

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Speaker 2: be his name. His whip talked about the mcguffin in

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Speaker 2: surial films. After that, we created the film by jumping

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Speaker 2: through our favorite moments from those kinds of films, the

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Speaker 2: sort of thing we'd really like to see. But Jordan,

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Speaker 2: what is a mcguffin. Yes, I'm glad you asked, Kygel

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Speaker 2: the phrase mcguffin. It's a cinematic device, the terms generally

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Speaker 2: accredited to Alfred Hitchcock for an object on which the

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Speaker 2: plot of a movie revolves, but it doesn't really have

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Speaker 2: any intrinsic value otherwise. And a great example of a

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Speaker 2: mcguffin in the sort of more modern era is the

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Speaker 2: briefcase in pulp fiction, which I don't think we ever

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Speaker 2: learned what's in the briefcase, So it's kind of the

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Speaker 2: perfect mcguffin.

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Speaker 1: You don't even know what it is. Alvin Hitchcock explained

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Speaker 1: the genesis of the term mcguffin in a nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: nine lecture at Columbia University, saying it might be a

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Speaker 1: Scottish name taken from a story about two men on

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Speaker 1: a train. One man says, what's that package up there

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Speaker 1: in the baggage rack and the other answers, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: a mcguffin. The first one asks, what's a mcguffin. Well,

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Speaker 1: the other man says, it's an apparatus for trapping lions

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Speaker 1: in the Scottish Highlands. The first man says, but there

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Speaker 1: are no lions in the Scottish Highlands, and the other

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Speaker 1: one answers, well, then that's no mcguffin. So you see,

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Speaker 1: a mcguffin is actually nothing at all. So I guess

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Speaker 1: it's based it's based around an old vaudeville joke.

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Speaker 2: I guess oh you got you got chahm. Well this

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Speaker 2: is this is a really fascinating thing that I uncovered

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Speaker 2: doing this. There's a recording of one of these brainstorming

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Speaker 2: sessions that these guys did, Larrence Cassen, Steven Spielberg, and

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Speaker 2: George Lucas, and someone transcribed it so you can actually

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Speaker 2: go and read the entire live processing of their brains

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Speaker 2: as they fleshed out the character and the first movie

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Speaker 2: you can't.

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Speaker 1: Hear it, but I'd love to hear it. And as

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Speaker 1: opposed to reading, it's not on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: Sure it might be. No, I think it's just a transcript.

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Speaker 2: I don't think the recording is up.

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Speaker 1: Ah. But yeah, they did this at the They did

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Speaker 1: this at the Sherman Oaks apartment of Lucas's assistant because

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Speaker 1: George Lucas doesn't live in LA and hates it.

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Speaker 2: But it's got all these amazing quotes in it. Spielberg

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Speaker 2: says at one point, each cliffhanger is better than the

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Speaker 2: one before. What we're doing here really is designing a

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Speaker 2: ride at Disneyland. They name drop all of these these

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Speaker 2: influences for Indy, from like Bond and Clint Eastwood to

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Speaker 2: Alan Quartermain, who's a you know, old timey adventurer, and

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Speaker 2: then less obvious ones like Clark Gable. They pretty much

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Speaker 2: I don't think I have this pinned down, but they

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Speaker 2: pretty much pinned that. The idea that the way Indie

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Speaker 2: dresses is like Humphrey Bogart in Treasurer Sierra Madre. The

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Speaker 2: leather jacket, the felt hat, the khakis, and that look

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Speaker 2: actually comes together thanks to a famous comic book artist

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Speaker 2: named Jim Stirranco, who was commissioned to do these four

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Speaker 2: paintings of Indie based on these descriptions from Lucas and

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Speaker 2: Spielberg and Kasten, and he delivers them these paintings to

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Speaker 2: them in August nineteen seventy nine, less than two months

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Speaker 2: after getting the prompts. They're these beautiful men's health style

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Speaker 2: like oil.

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Speaker 1: Paintings that.

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Speaker 2: Have like you know, Indie with like on a tank

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Speaker 2: and like punching a Nazi and it's but there.

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Speaker 1: They're everyone should google them. They're beautiful.

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Speaker 2: But in this in this transcript, in this recording, Lucas

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Speaker 2: very succinctly just sketches out the second act of the movie.

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Speaker 2: He says, in essence, it's just bullshit stuff where he

403
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Speaker 2: wanders around Cairo trying to uncovery the mystery of his puzzle,

404
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Speaker 2: and at the same time you meet all these interesting characters,

405
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Speaker 2: and every once in a while someone throws a knife

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Speaker 2: at him, or he beats somebody up, or somebody beats

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Speaker 2: him up, typical Middle Eastern stuff. Yeah, there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of casual, uh other ring that happens in there.

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Speaker 1: There.

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Speaker 2: There's like they talk about like oh, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: we want that oriental influence, so like guys and like

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Speaker 2: Middle Eastern guys, like you know, thin mustaches and simtars,

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Speaker 2: and it's like.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean the whole unspoken part about this is that

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Speaker 2: these adventure serials that they were like modeling this stuff

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Speaker 2: out are wildly racist.

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Speaker 1: So there's that.

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Speaker 2: Uh And it's in this in this recording you hear,

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Speaker 2: and I've heard a couple different versions of this, but

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Speaker 2: it's in this transcript. You also see there's a line

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Speaker 2: in here. God, how do I want to phrase this?

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Speaker 2: I should just read what I wrote. The name Indiana

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Speaker 2: comes from George Lucas's Alaskan malamute dog that all also

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Speaker 2: inspired the character of Chewbacca. Whoa, And that's why they

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Speaker 2: put it in the third film that we named the

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Speaker 2: dog Indy.

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Speaker 1: I hope they stuffed that dog and have it on

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Speaker 1: display at Skywalker rants Jesus right next to the Ark

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Speaker 1: of the Covenant. In The Ark of the Covenant. Oh yeah,

431
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 1: uh so.

432
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 2: He in this transcript one at this session, Lucas refers

433
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 2: to him as Indiana Smith and then yeah, well they

434
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: immediately backtrack it He's like or something else, like Jones.

435
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:33,920
Speaker 1: And then everyone can call Jones.

436
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 2: And I've also heard that Lucas stuck to this until

437
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 2: like very late in the development process, and it was

438
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 2: Spielberg who hated the name, correctly surmising that people would

439
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 2: see it as a very obvious ripoff of the nineteen

440
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 2: sixty six Steve McQueen film Nevada Smith. So they lobbied

441
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,920
Speaker 2: for Indiana Jones instead, which is less blatant of a ripoff,

442
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: but a ripoff none the same. But hilariously, all of

443
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: this fun brainstorming did not help get the actual script written,

444
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,919
Speaker 2: and Lawrence Casden told Empire Magazine when I started, I

445
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: was intimidated, but I realized the reason they hired me

446
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 2: was they wanted someone to do all the hard work,

447
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: put it all together, and come up with all the

448
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: connective material. They had all these great set pieces in mind,

449
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 2: but that's different from a screenplay. I actually wrote it

450
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 2: in Steven's office while he was making nineteen forty one.

451
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 2: Speaking of nineteen forty one, Jordan tell us why Steven

452
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 2: Spielberg was in a downturn when he made Writers a

453
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 2: Lost Ark.

454
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned this at the top of the episode

455
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: that Raters of the Lost Ark was made on a

456
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: relative shoestring. What twenty million? Which twenty mil still, I mean,

457
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 1: considering the scope of it, is pretty impressive. It's because

458
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 1: Spielberg made a little movie called nineteen forty one with

459
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: John Belushi. Is about all I know about it, and

460
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 1: the fact that it's supposed to be very bad. It

461
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: was extremely costly and underperformed in a big way or

462
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: a small way. Do you underperform in a big way

463
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 1: a small way? That's a great question, questions every time. Okay,

464
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: Spielberg later told The Guardian after nineteen forty one, I

465
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: got fed up with endless expensive productions. Afterwards, I went

466
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,719
Speaker 1: back and looked at my favorite films from the thirties

467
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 1: and forties and thought how quickly and cheaply they were made.

468
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: I think I'm basically a reincarnated director from the nineteen thirties.

469
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: Ray I'd watch that Raiders owes a lot to the

470
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: Tarzan books, the Amazing Adventures, the pre comic book books

471
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: of that era. It was kind of a whiz bang time.

472
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: And in that interviewer, if I were that interview I

473
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 2: would have gone LENI riefenstalled.

474
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: And in that recorded brainstorming meeting that you mentioned, George

475
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 1: Lucas hammers down this whole budgetary thing. He said, we

476
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: have to figure out a way of making this cheap,

477
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: meaning six or seven million dollars. I mean, want to

478
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: spend our money on stunts for production value and entertainment value.

479
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 1: It's much better to have a terrific stunt than to

480
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: have a scene with eight thousand extras. You got to

481
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 1: do it.

482
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 2: In the George Luca's dead pan voice, we have to

483
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 2: figure out a way of making this cheap, meaning six

484
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: or seven million dollars.

485
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: Just the most uninteresting man in the world. Well, at

486
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: the time of Indiana Jones, I didn't realize this. George

487
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 1: Lucas had retired from directing and even retired as a

488
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: producer because he'd nearly lost everything that he had on

489
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: the second Star Wars film, The Empire Strikes Back. He

490
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: told Vandydfera that nearly every major studio had turned down Raiders,

491
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 1: partly because of his projected twenty million dollar budget and

492
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: partly because Lucas was driving a very hard deal. He

493
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: learned a lot of lessons from the Star Wars experience

494
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: retaining licensing rights and creative control, and Michael Eisner was

495
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: the president of Paramount at the time. He eventually caved

496
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: to his demands, but his biggest concern was actually Spielberg

497
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 1: directing Lucas recalled, Steve had just come off of three giant, huge,

498
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: mega disaster movies, nineteen forty one, Close Encounters and Jaws.

499
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: I think the disaster is referring to the plot line

500
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: and not Yes, not, they weren't all bombs. Both went

501
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: double over budget, double over schedule. Of course, he was

502
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: forgiven over Jaws because it was a mega hit. He

503
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: was sort of forgiven over Close Encounters because it was

504
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 1: a big hit, but nineteen forty one was not, and

505
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: therefore they don't forgive anymore, which is all you need

506
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: to know about Hollywood in the film industry. And I

507
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,959
Speaker 1: had talked with Steven because he was a friend of mine.

508
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 1: He was caught in some circumstances beyond his control. And

509
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: I said, we'll just do this very lightly. We'll do

510
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 1: it like television, which I think they both had their

511
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: start in, or at least Spielberg did, And these are

512
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: the rules, and this is how we're going to play.

513
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 1: And Spielberg agreed, and so I had complete confidence in him.

514
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they called it Lucas's killer deal because this thing

515
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: was so like creat or friendly and hard driving. Both

516
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 2: of them got points, they got their they got their fee,

517
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: but both of them got points and obviously licensing and

518
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: all those rights. Like it's insane for something that was

519
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 2: based on completely original property from a guy who had

520
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: just had a huge flop.

521
00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: You know.

522
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: I think it was definitely Luke is his clout that

523
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 2: got this because he was fresh off of even if

524
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 2: even though Empire had almost bankrupted him, he didn't that

525
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 2: was still another big hit, and I think he had

526
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: kind of the clout to push it in a way

527
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,480
Speaker 2: that or at least residual stuff from the first Star

528
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 2: Wars that enabled them to drive this.

529
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 1: Why did it almost bankrupt him? I don't. I mean,

530
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: I know that's a whole other episode.

531
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 2: But I think they just I don't. I mean, I

532
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm completely speculating, but I don't know. I

533
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 2: think he might have just tried to It might have

534
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 2: just gone way over budget, because I think that's.

535
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: The one where is that the one where Mark Hamill

536
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: got like a car accident in between the first two

537
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 1: that can get back shooting and yeah, Empire strikes Back

538
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: was one of the most expensive films of its day

539
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: thirty three million dollars, and the bank threatened to pull

540
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,199
Speaker 1: his loan, so he had to go to twentieth Century

541
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: Fox to get the rest floated. Whoa.

542
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: It was initially budgeted at eighteen million, which was fifty

543
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: percent more than the first Star Wars.

544
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's hilarious. At thirty three million, was the

545
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: most expensive movie at the time. I mean, I know

546
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: it was what nineteen seventy nine, but gez.

547
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 2: Now, fifty years later we have one that's a rock cop. Yeah,

548
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: a billion with marketing. Good god, we live in hell.

549
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: See you've got Spielberg directing, and we've got George Lucas writing.

550
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: What all you do? Got sunburned? They still needed a producer,

551
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: so they got Frank Marshall on board to keep things

552
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 1: under budget, or at least try and paramount. The studio

553
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: insisted on severe penalties if the film went over it's

554
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: twenty million dollar budget, and one way Spielberg managed to

555
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: keep things a little bit trimmer was he used stock footage.

556
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: It is kind of adorable. The shots of the DC

557
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: three flying over the Himalayas is lifted from nineteen seventy

558
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: threes lost to Horizon. Well, nineteen thirty street scene was

559
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 1: borrowed from nineteen seventy five's Hindenburg. Just love the fact

560
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: that he was penny pinching whatever. He's like, yah stock fuddage.

561
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: That's the other reason they do the you know, the

562
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: classic the maps. Yes, the script originally called for montages

563
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: and they were going to have him bouncing around street.

564
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: Seas on all those maps. Yeah, and they were like, no,

565
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: that's not sorry, Bud, that's not happening.

566
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: So they just did the line bouncing around on the

567
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: That's the best part that it's so perfect. It's exactly

568
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: what it makes the movie. It's wiz bang if I

569
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: may wiz bang exactly. Yeah.

570
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 2: So for the film's lead, George Lucas told Empire, I

571
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: was wary of Harrison and I becoming like scorsesean de Nero.

572
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: I thought, let's create a new icon.

573
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: We found Tom Selik, but as soon as the network

574
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: heard his option on Magnum Pi got picked. Lucas told

575
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: Total Film the show magnum P I had sat there

576
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: and nobody wanted it. We were desperate to get going.

577
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: We called CBS and asked if he could be let

578
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: out of his option agreement. It literally had ten days

579
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: to go. So that's one of the most famous bits

580
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: of trivia about this movie. And you can actually see

581
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 2: selk in like a screen test. You can see him

582
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 2: in the in the costume for it. I mean, it

583
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: got that close to the wire. But he was hardly

584
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 2: the only guy that they had floated for this. Pretty

585
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: much every brunette male in Hollywood seemingly was floated for

586
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 2: this role at one point, Chevy Chase and Bill Murray.

587
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: Bill Murray, they wanted the humor thing in there. They

588
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: wanted him to be kind of wise cracking. They didn't

589
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: necessarily want the they didn't want like a big he

590
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: man character. Harrison Ford was actually kind of scrone coming

591
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: off Han solo, and they actually made him. They went

592
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 2: and worked out a bunch for this. Nick Nolty, Steve Martin,

593
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: Tim Matheson from Animal house Men who I don't know

594
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 2: named Nick Mancuso and Peter Coyote.

595
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: Peter Coyotes, Ken Burns narrator.

596
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: Voice incredible, Jack Nicholson, Jeff Bridges, John Shay, Sam Elliott,

597
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: and Harry Hamlet were all in the running. I think

598
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: the casting director, Yeah, the casting director liked Jeff Bridges

599
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 2: the most, but the ultimate indignity for Tom Selleck would

600
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: be that the nineteen eighty Actors Strike put magnum Pi

601
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: on hiatus for three months, which would have allowed for

602
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: him to star as Indiana Jones and do magnum Pi.

603
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: What do you think of all these almosts? Jeff Bridges

604
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: would have been great. I'm in the Nicholson. Sam Elliott

605
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: probably would have been pretty good too.

606
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: Sam Elliott's a yeah, he's a That man's a fine

607
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: piece of ass.

608
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: With a great voice. So he's a.

609
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 2: Snack My god, him and Roadhouse. He's that as a

610
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: hot old dude, and he would have been young.

611
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: He's probably scorching in the in this era. You love

612
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: a mustache, douncha? Oh yeah, okay, you know what, I

613
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: take it back, you're right. Oh yeah, he looks like

614
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood. He's got that. Yeah.

615
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 2: Man, without the mustache, he looks like a matinee Idol.

616
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: He looks a little bit like on Fry, which kind

617
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: of throws me, why did.

618
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: You Why did you bring that into this? It does.

619
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: It's just like.

620
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: So with literal weeks left to go before they started

621
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: shootings and with them being without a star. Spielberg was

622
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: at a screening of The Empire Strikes Back and he

623
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: called George Lucas. He was like, I think the answer

624
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: has been under our noses this entire time, and Lucas

625
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 2: wasn't sure that Harrison would sign on for a three

626
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 2: picture deal with also being contracted for the third Star

627
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: Wars and four. When he did sign on, got quite

628
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 2: the deal. He got seven figures seven percent of the

629
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: gross and he got to come in and rewrite all

630
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,239
Speaker 2: of the dialogue because, in his own inimitable words, I

631
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: don't want to be playing Professor solo here, so they

632
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: wanted him. He wanted to come in and just throw

633
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: out a lot of the dialogue and put his own

634
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: spin on it. But he threw himself into the role.

635
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 2: He worked out extensively to get in shape, and he

636
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: trained with a bullwhip. Coach guy came to his house

637
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 2: and they practiced with the bull whip to get Indy's

638
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 2: iconic weapon down. Ford did a boatload of stunts for

639
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 2: this film without managing to severely injure himself, but he

640
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: did tear his acl He explained this in a twenty

641
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 2: fourteen Reddit ama.

642
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: He says he can't remember.

643
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: Which knee, but it's a scene when he's fighting the

644
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 2: German mechanic on the on that airplane called the Flying Wing.

645
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: They it actually ran over him at one point, and

646
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: it didn't run over his knee, it ran over his uh,

647
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: I think foot and ankle. But the only thing that

648
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: saved him was because they were shooting in Tunisia and

649
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: the macadam or whatever had become so soft and was

650
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: already covered by sand that when the landing gear rolled

651
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 2: over his foot, it pressed it down into the ground

652
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 2: and they were able to roll it off him. But

653
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: he still tore his acl doing this.

654
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 1: You can't remember which one, presumably because he's torn both

655
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: of the.

656
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 2: Get yeah, guess yeah yeah uh and then he for

657
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: for that another probably the high water mark of the

658
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 2: movie in terms of pure action, the truck chase. He

659
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: was actually dragged behind the moving truck for some of

660
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: those shots, and he bruised some ribs in that.

661
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,959
Speaker 1: There's a book by a guy named J. W.

662
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: Wrinsler called The Complete Making of Indiana Jones, and in

663
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: that he outlines how Steven Spielberg and the stuntman Terry

664
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 2: Leonard designed that truck chase, and specifically the part where

665
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 2: India is underneath the truck as an homage to the

666
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: stuntwork of a guy with a fantastic name of Yakima Knutt,

667
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,720
Speaker 2: who pulled off similar feats using horses and a stage

668
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 2: coach in nineteen thirty nine. Stage Coach and the serial

669
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 2: Zorro's fighting legion. Terry Leonard almost died trying to recreate

670
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: that stunt for a movie called The Legend of the

671
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: Lone Ranger in nineteen eighty one, and he played the

672
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: truck's original driver, and then he doubled for Ford when

673
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 2: India is underneath the truck and in some of the

674
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: scenes where he's being dragged behind it. Stunt coordinator named

675
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: Glenn Randall Junior, who I believe is the guy whose

676
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: whip it was u That guy drove the vehicle, and

677
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 2: the truck was designed to accommodate it. They lifted it up,

678
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 2: you know, obviously to give as much clearance underneath it,

679
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: but they also dug out a trench underneath it so

680
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: that he could be both sunken into the ground and

681
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: the truck be super high up above it, which you

682
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 2: can see in the shots. And then when Harrison is

683
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 2: in front of the truck. He's on a bike seat,

684
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 2: you know, when he's like trying to climb up the

685
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: climb up the hood and the Mercedes Benz hood ornament

686
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: snaps off, which some people have interpreted as being a

687
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: jab at the company for being loathsome Nazi collaborators. But

688
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 2: he's like that, Yeah, they just rigged like a bicycle

689
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: seat to come out of the undercarriage, and like he

690
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 2: sat on it and pretended to scrabble around on the

691
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: hood while the thing was moving. As Spielberg recalled in

692
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 2: Paul Honeyford's biography of Harrison Ford, there are four or

693
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 2: five very risky scenes that Terry Leonard Jr. Randall and

694
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 2: Vic Armstrong did for him.

695
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: J R.

696
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: Randall's our stunt gaffer, and he wouldn't let Harrison do

697
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: any stunts that were potentially fatal. Person did most everything else,

698
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 2: anything that simply promised serious injury or total disability. Harrison

699
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: did anything that promised death through fatal miscalculation. Terry Vick

700
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: and Jr.

701
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: Did you think they get a better term than stunt gaffer,

702
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: because to me that just sounds like a guy is

703
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: always screwing up stunts. I mean, we still have a

704
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: Norm McDonald joke, but I mean it. I mean we

705
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: still have.

706
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 2: One of the most well used terms in the film

707
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: industry is best boy, So gradon on a curve here.

708
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: One of the film's iconic scenes that actually did not

709
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 2: injure for but could have, was the boulder chase at

710
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 2: the top of the film. Spielberg wrote in an American

711
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: Cinematographer retrospective that we went to great lengths to make

712
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 2: a twelve foot rock out of fiberglass and wood and plaster,

713
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: precisely so that it wouldn't weigh as much as a

714
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: real twelve foot boulder. But whether weighed three hundred pounds,

715
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: which it did, or whether it weighed eighty tons, as

716
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 2: it would have, it could have still done bodily harm

717
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 2: to anyone beneath it. And Harrison was not doubled in

718
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: those scenes. Not only that, but the sequence was shot

719
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 2: in the second week of principal photography in London. I mean,

720
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 2: the absolute worst time to eliminate your leading man is

721
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: in the second week. But because the rock was more

722
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 2: effective chasing Harrison with Harrison running toward camera, it just

723
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 2: didn't work as well having him doubled. A double would

724
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 2: have cheated with his head down, so Harrison volunteered to

725
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: do it himself.

726
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: He succeeded.

727
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: There were five shots of the rock from five different angles,

728
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 2: each one done separately, each one done twice, so Harrison

729
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,959
Speaker 2: had to race the rock ten times. He won ten

730
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: times and beat the odds. He was lucky, and I

731
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: was an idiot for letting him try it.

732
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: So he would risk a man's life to get a

733
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 1: preferable camera angle. My understanding this properly. That's why he's

734
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: the best.

735
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: That's why him and him and Jim Cameron baby total disregard,

736
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: total disregard for human life in the pursuit of art.

737
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: We stand.

738
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: The sound effects for that border were created by fun

739
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: Fact iconic sound designer Ben Burt, who is the guy

740
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 2: who does all of the sound effects in Star Wars,

741
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 2: the lightsabered noise, the tie fighter, that.

742
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: Noise sorrow. Wow, that was good.

743
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 2: That's hard for doing that without prompting you. He's also

744
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: the voice of Wally. How awesome of CV does that

745
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: guy have?

746
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: Anyway?

747
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 2: The sound of the Bowler is him just rolling his

748
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: Honda Civic over his gravel driveway.

749
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: In my mind, I just hear like a bowling ball.

750
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah.

751
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 2: Also that, as Vic Armstrong told Newsweek, if Harrison wasn't

752
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: such a great actor, he would have made a really

753
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: great stunt man. Indy's Whip is a four hundred and

754
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: fifty series. That is the name of it, Kangaroo leather

755
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 2: bull whip, made by David Morgan, a company that is

756
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 2: still making these things.

757
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: So kangaroo leather, it's made from kangaroos. Just what it

758
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: sounds like, just what it says on the tin. Wow.

759
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 2: However, in the original film they couldn't do that because

760
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 2: there was an embargo on certain animal products. So I

761
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: believe the original ones, some of the original ones in

762
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: this first film, are not actually a kangaroo leather. Sorry

763
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 2: disappoint on you kangaroo haters out there. They made about

764
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 2: thirty for the original trilogy, ranging in length from six

765
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 2: to sixteen feet, and Harrison had fallen off of a

766
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: ladder while doing carpentry or painting work early on his career,

767
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 2: and so he broke his wrist and due to that injury,

768
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 2: he had to basically figure out how to like a

769
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: different way really to work the bull whip, and although

770
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: he did by his own admission, hit himself in the

771
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 2: face and shoulders and head quite a bit while training.

772
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: He got good enough with the thing that shot where

773
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: he whips the gun out of the guy's hand.

774
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: That is that was that was real. Harrison actually did that.

775
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 2: And the guy playing that character, who I think appears

776
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 2: twice in the movie. There's a bunch of people who

777
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: were in this movie twice because they were, you know,

778
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 2: pinching pennies. And that guy said to Empire Magazine for

779
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 2: that scene in the jungle where Indy whips away my gun,

780
00:39:58,600 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 2: I'm standing there aiming it.

781
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: Bielberg says, don't move. It's my hand, damn it.

782
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 2: It's scary and the risk is there because all Harrison

783
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 2: has to do is come half an inch forward to

784
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 2: hit my hand, but he never did so. For Jones's Look,

785
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 2: there's a costume designer who at the time her name

786
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: was Deborah Nedolman, and she has since married John Landis,

787
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: so her name is now Deborah norlmand Landis.

788
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, so for the ret for the.

789
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 2: Non weaponry parts of Jones's Look, costume designer Deborah Nadelman

790
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 2: Landis has said in various interviews that his wardrobe came

791
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 2: from Charlton Heston in nineteen fifty four's Secret of the

792
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 2: Incas and a nineteen forty three movie entitled Simply China

793
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: starring Alan Ladd. It's hard to google because it's just

794
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: called China, but if you look it up and on

795
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: the poster, just guy looks just like Indiana Jones. She

796
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 2: sourced ten leather jackets for Indy from Wilson's House of

797
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 2: Swede and Leather in Los Angeles. They custom made these

798
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: based on a prototype that she made, but when they

799
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,359
Speaker 2: arrived they just fell apart. She said they were too

800
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 2: low quality for them to use, and so she actually

801
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 2: because the budget on this was such a it was

802
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: so tightly controlled, she had to have Ford go to

803
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 2: production and say they needed another ten. So that came

804
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: together at the legendary London costumier Berman's and Nathan's.

805
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: You Know Who. Burman and Nathan's also provided costumes for

806
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: Who's That The Beatles. They provided the sergent pepper costumes

807
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: for the album cover excellent. I can always bring it

808
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 1: back to the Beatles, make that a moment of every episode.

809
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: The hat, meanwhile, came from another iconic London spot, New Bond,

810
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 2: streets Herbert Johnson. Landis told Deadline. I had gone to

811
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: Herbert Johnson and they had nothing to suit, absolutely nothing,

812
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: no brown fedoras. But they did have a hat which

813
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 2: is called the Australian think crocodile dundee. It was up

814
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 2: on one side and had a very large brim, so

815
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 2: I said, I'll have that one. We remade it. So

816
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: they had to age all of this gear up, though,

817
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 2: and so the first night of filming when they got

818
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: to France, she told Town and Country magazine. The first

819
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 2: night we were in La Rochelle, after dinner, I went

820
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 2: down to the pool. I had brought sandpaper, follows earth

821
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 2: mineral oil, a steel brush. Harrison came and sat with

822
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: me and we just drank and I aged the jackets

823
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 2: and the hats.

824
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 1: I can't believe they left it to the knight before

825
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: you think you want to like get that yeah, squared away,

826
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 1: before you're like on the set.

827
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: I have also heard apocryphy that Harrison used his own

828
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 2: pocket knife to help age the jackets, which is great.

829
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,640
Speaker 1: I believe it. He was a carpenter. Yeah, he's a handyman.

830
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but we'll be right

831
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 1: back with more too much information in just a moment.

832
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: For the role of one of my most searing childhood brushes,

833
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: love a gimlet eyed brunette, Marion Ravenwood. So named Marion

834
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 2: Ravenwood is funny. She's named after Lawrence Kasden's wife's grandmother,

835
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: An Ravenwood Drive or court or something in LA that

836
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 2: he would take every day to get to work. Karen

837
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 2: Allen nabbed the role after Spielberg's then girlfriend Amy Irving

838
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 2: couldn't do it, and Alan recalled it. Barbara Hershey, Deborah Winger,

839
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 2: Sean Young were all floated as well, which is funny

840
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: because Sean Young would then go on to be in

841
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 2: Blade Runner opposite at Harrison Ford. But Spielberg said that

842
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 2: he had his eye on Alan ever since Animal House.

843
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,320
Speaker 2: She met with him and then flew to LA to

844
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: screen test against the other actors being considered as indie.

845
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 2: She screen test with John Shay she's talked about, and

846
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 2: Tim Matheson.

847
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: Who's also Otter in Animal House along with Karen Allen.

848
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: She told The Hollywood Reporter in twenty twenty one, I

849
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 2: don't remember how long it was, but I got a

850
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 2: call that they were offering me the film. They wanted

851
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 2: me to read the script and give them an answer

852
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: within two days. They had a courier bring the script

853
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: and he had to sit in my room the whole

854
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: time while at the hotel. Then I had to give

855
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: it back to him. This project was shrouded under a

856
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: great deal of secrecy. They were apparently very very h

857
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 2: shush about the whole thing, which is understandable given the

858
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 2: names that were involved. But it's just still funny that

859
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: this this swing and home run swing of a movie pitch,

860
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 2: they were treating it like it was in fact the Grail.

861
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 2: Even though she was still fairly young and unknown, Alan

862
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 2: was actually able to lobby for changes to the character.

863
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: There's that scene where she she and Bellock.

864
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,399
Speaker 1: I think his name is I think so, Yeah, I'm never.

865
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: Sure if it's pronounced, because he's supposed to be French,

866
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 2: so it's supposed to be like it should be like Bellock,

867
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: but they all just call him Bellock anyway, because we're American.

868
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

869
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: They improvised that scene apparently because they thought they thought

870
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: it would be funnier to have them be like drinking

871
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: and kind of have that lucy goosey feel to it,

872
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: so that scene is like largely improvised, but she made

873
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: it mandated that apparently their their dynamic was supposed to

874
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 2: be that she actually like had feelings for for Bellock

875
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 2: even though he's the villain, and that was like a

876
00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 2: thread that she wanted removed from her character's arc because

877
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 2: she wanted her to always be, you know, INDI's gal.

878
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: So when she, like Foe, seduces him and has the

879
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 2: knife under her dress, that was her addition that she

880
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: pushed for because she said she wanted to give the

881
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 2: character a kind of integrity and a real sense of

882
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:23,839
Speaker 2: loyalty and love to Indiana Jones and Marian's feistiness, shall

883
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: we say it was there from the beginning. The first

884
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 2: time Spielberg met Karen Allen, he asked her, how well

885
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 2: do you spit which phrasing especially in seventies Hollywood.

886
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 1: Oh well. Despite their chemistry on screen, Karen Allen, who

887
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: is a classically trained theater actor, wasn't used to Harrison

888
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: Ford's method of working, which was very very private. She

889
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: told the Hollywood Reporter, the thing that was challenging for

890
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: me at the time was Harrison very much worked privately.

891
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:53,280
Speaker 1: He liked to work on his lines and a scene

892
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: by himself and his trailer. He did much like to

893
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,279
Speaker 1: run lines with other actors. In the beginning, I didn't

894
00:45:58,280 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: know how to take it. I didn't know whether to

895
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: take it personally. Coming out of the theater. I was

896
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: so used to working with other actors and running lines,

897
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: so it took me a while to make an adjustment

898
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: to that. But then we got into a groove with

899
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: each other. And in their first scene when Karen Allen

900
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: Cold Cocks Indy, Karen actually hit Harrison Ford in the

901
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: face for real. She said. He was slightly annoyed. She's

902
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: talking to up rocks in twenty twenty one, But I

903
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: mean it happens. I had never punched anyone in a

904
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 1: film before, so they were showing me how to do it,

905
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: and I was doing my absolute best, and as far

906
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: as I was concerned, his chin just got in the

907
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: way of my hand. Which is funny because didn't Harrison

908
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 1: Ford sock Ryan Gosling. He shouldn't. Yeah, yeah, And you

909
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: can see the actual frame.

910
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 2: People have people have identified the exact moment in the

911
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 2: film where Brian Gosling got punched in the jaw, and

912
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 2: it sure looks like he did.

913
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, the look at his face is like, oh

914
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: my god, I just got punched by Harrison Ford and

915
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm not even that mad about it. And Harrison Ford

916
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: looks like the same look horror that I imagine would

917
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: be on his face when he pulled down the wrong

918
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: runway in his plane. And it's cute. Oh man, that's cute. Yes, sexism.

919
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: Much has been made of the age gap between mary

920
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: And and Indy. Karen Allen said that she envisioned the character

921
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: was sixteen in Indiana was twenty six when they had

922
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: their initial relationship, which not great. In that up Rocks

923
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: interview that I mentioned earlier, Karen Allen says that what

924
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: actually happened between the pair is ambiguous. She said they

925
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: could have kissed a few times and she was just

926
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: completely bold over and he could have just not wanted

927
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: to get involved with someone so young. I don't think

928
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 1: of him as a pedophile, which is good, good. Yeah.

929
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: What's much worse is that I believe it was Lucas

930
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: who was like Marion's eleven. No. Spielberg was like no

931
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: George Jesus Christ.

932
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 2: The more you read about George Lucas, the more you like,

933
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: at least I am somewhat of the opinion that he

934
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 2: was a very lucky man because some of his ideas

935
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 2: are awful and frequently mitigated by his collaborators.

936
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the Mackenzie Phillips character in American Graffiti

937
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: who was like fourteen and driving around with the twenty

938
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: year old.

939
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it gets grosser because I'm pretty sure in Temple

940
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: of Doom, like, so nobody wanted to make Temple Doom apparently,

941
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 2: like they were all just like, even even though this

942
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 2: was like a three picture deal, they just had no

943
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: like they were all checked out at that point in

944
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 2: their careers or whatever. We're like, we don't want to

945
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 2: do this. And George was the one pushing for it

946
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 2: because he had read about the thuggee cult in India,

947
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 2: which is the central crux of that movie, even though

948
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: it is hilariously offensive and so offensive in fact that

949
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 2: India would not let them film there. We learned what

950
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: the film is about, and it's filmed in Malaysia I

951
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:55,840
Speaker 2: think anyway.

952
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: And so Kate Capshaw is.

953
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 2: Like Indie's you know, nominal love interest co lead, and

954
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 2: before they landed on her, George Lucas wanted to make

955
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,840
Speaker 2: it a like a princess character, like a virginal princess

956
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 2: character that Indy had to like rescue, and it was

957
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: just like.

958
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:18,240
Speaker 3: What is this fixation you have with young women, my dude,

959
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 3: because I'm pretty sure Princess Leo was also supposed to

960
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 3: be like fifteen or sixteen like in his original docs.

961
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean you watch all those speeches and

962
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: American film ins too, like awards ceremonies where Carrie Fisher

963
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 1: would like honor slash roast him. Yeah, and the venom

964
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: is very real like.

965
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, I mean the famous thing that she

966
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 2: kept being like I have to do all this running

967
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 2: and like my costume doesn't have a bra, Like what

968
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: are you doing, George?

969
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 1: He's like, they don't have bras from space. There's no gravity,

970
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: little underwear in space. Yeah. But for all of Karen

971
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 1: Allen's many talents, she wasn't quite as intense as Harrison.

972
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,879
Speaker 1: It was when it came to stunts.

973
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 2: But but she was surrounded by actual fire during that

974
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 2: bar scene in the in her Bar and Nepal, there

975
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: were no doubles used in that scene for her or Ford,

976
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:15,759
Speaker 2: and she said that much of the fire in that

977
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: was real. And then there's the Well of Souls scene.

978
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 2: For those of you who don't have the entire command

979
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 2: of the film at your fingertips, the Well of Souls

980
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 2: is the snake filled pit where you get the classic

981
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 2: line snakes.

982
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,040
Speaker 1: Why did it have to be snakes? Because Indie hates snakes.

983
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: So they descend into a snake filled pit that took

984
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 2: eight days straight to film at Elstree Studios. Famously, they

985
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 2: had something like twenty five hundred snakes and Steven Spilberg

986
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 2: was like, we need more snakes, so they flew in

987
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 2: a bunch of snakes from all over Europe, including Denmark,

988
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: and ended up with somewhere the neighborhood of seven thousand

989
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: snakes is what I've read, which is too many to

990
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 2: be around.

991
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 1: Period.

992
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 2: Karen Allen remembered to the Hollywood Reporter the cobras were

993
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 2: handled in a very special way, and there was an

994
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 2: ambulance just outside the set and a nurse who had

995
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 2: anti venom. Often there was plexiglass between us and them. Still,

996
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: there were a few people on the set who were

997
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: bitten by the pythons, which aren't poisonous, but it is

998
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 2: a nasty bite. No one was in terrible danger with

999
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: them unless you were in the wrong place at the

1000
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 2: wrong time. I think it was our first assistant director

1001
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 2: who was trying to protect someone else who got bit

1002
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 2: in one. So for that sequence, snake handler Stephen Edge

1003
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: ended up shaving his legs and putting on a dress

1004
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 2: to serve as a double for Marian's character, because neither

1005
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 2: Karen Allen nor her stunt double wanted to wanted to

1006
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: take that plunge.

1007
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,320
Speaker 1: Is that a verse from Lou Reed's Walk on the Wildside.

1008
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: Shaved legs and then stood in the snakes. He said, hey,

1009
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: you did, there's a bidden here about the anti venom.

1010
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,600
Speaker 1: I didn't put in that. I wanted to. Oh please.

1011
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: They didn't use a lot of rubber snakes, but you

1012
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: know why, there's seven thousand real snakes.

1013
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 2: Harris and I were just kind of having snakes dumped

1014
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: on us because the minute they hit the ground, they

1015
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 2: were trying to go away into cool, dark places and

1016
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 2: instead of being in the light, Karen Allen told the

1017
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,759
Speaker 2: Los Angeles Daily News in twenty twenty one, and they

1018
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 2: dumped snakes on us, and then Stephen would scream action.

1019
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 2: Don't worry though, because the snake that Spielberg dumped on

1020
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 2: her was dead. Alan explained it was a dead python

1021
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 2: which Stephen had left on ice for three days until

1022
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:39,879
Speaker 2: it was completely decayed. Apparently she wasn't screaming. She wasn't

1023
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 2: screaming convincingly enough, was what I heard. Spielberg stayed say,

1024
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,400
Speaker 2: so that he had to Yeah, yes, it's.

1025
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: Very Cubrician who also filmed at Eustrie a lot. And

1026
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 1: speaking of yes, that's right. Wow, not even mean to

1027
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: make that seguey. John Baxter, in his book Steven Spielberg

1028
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 1: an Unauthorized Biography, claims that production of writ As a

1029
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: Lost Arc was delayed for a day when Stanley Kubrick's

1030
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: daughter Vivian showed up to visit the set and was

1031
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,080
Speaker 1: horrified by the treatment of the snakes, and she called

1032
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 1: the British version of the ASPCA on the production, who

1033
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 1: shut things down while Spielberg made the mandated charges. Fortunately,

1034
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: Vivian apparently didn't know about the deaf rat. Oi'll tell

1035
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:24,439
Speaker 1: us about the deaf rat.

1036
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 2: So they had a bunch of rats brought in and

1037
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 2: do you know, actually, in That's crusade they had to

1038
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 2: breed all of those rats because they couldn't use native

1039
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 2: rats because they would have been riddled with disease in Venice,

1040
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 2: so for that scene, those are all specially they were

1041
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 2: specially bred for the film. Fun fact, but in this

1042
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: it so it's like a blink and you'll miss it shot.

1043
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 2: It's when the arc is being transported, right and they're

1044
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,000
Speaker 2: down in the ship's hold and it's like thrumbing with

1045
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: huha power or whatever, and one of the rats is

1046
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 2: like doing like your head stuff uh and and.

1047
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, that's the power that the arc.

1048
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 2: Has, not so uh. Kathleen Kennedy producer. Legendary producer Kathleen

1049
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 2: Kennedy says that it was their animal wrangler. They were like,

1050
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 2: why is that rat doing that? And he was like,

1051
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 2: I've had it since it was a baby. I can't

1052
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,439
Speaker 2: bear to get rid of it. It's deaf, so it's

1053
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 2: like not useful as like a trained rat, but it's

1054
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,880
Speaker 2: it's like my my pet deaf rat. And they were like, great,

1055
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 2: he's a star, which feels like another labor violence cigar choppings.

1056
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: Get me that rat, got me the deaf rat. Mikey's

1057
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:40,959
Speaker 1: on his way out, this cigar falls out of his mouth.

1058
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: In the screening room, He's like, that rat's a star.

1059
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,800
Speaker 1: It's like a all about Eve, but it's just about

1060
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: Mickey Mouse and the deaf rat.

1061
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, so I found this the serum thing

1062
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 2: they had. They they tried because they had this cobra uh,

1063
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: and they had to The snake wrangler said, you had

1064
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 2: to intentionally piss them off to get their hood to

1065
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 2: come out right, because that's the iconic coverd thing. So

1066
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: they're intentionally like patting them on the heads, the same

1067
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 2: thing you see snake charmers do, and they just like

1068
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: boop them on the boop them on the head so

1069
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 2: that they flare up.

1070
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: But they little bunny fu food.

1071
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly. But they needed anti venom around the serum.

1072
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 2: This is what Frank Marshall producer Frank Marshall called the

1073
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:28,240
Speaker 2: serum man. He was the only guy in the country

1074
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 2: who had it.

1075
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: Uh.

1076
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 2: They went to a local hospital to try to get some,

1077
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 2: but theirs was expired and finally the anti venom arrived

1078
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 2: after being airlifted by the American embassy, the Air Force

1079
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 2: hospital and the Naval hospital.

1080
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: That was how they ended up getting it. On set

1081
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: was like this diplomatic trifecta of organizations. I mean, I

1082
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: kind of would wish that most hospitals, if not all,

1083
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:58,280
Speaker 1: had a little bit of anti venom.

1084
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, but now this was expired. Apparently the

1085
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 2: cobra killed a python amore all right?

1086
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 1: Oh man?

1087
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 2: Anyway, for Indy's sidekick partner Salah, they're digging the wrong

1088
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 2: place there digging the role. I just remember him singing

1089
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 2: that what a great voice that guy has. Jonathan Davis, Uh,

1090
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 2: that role was initially supposed to go to Danny DeVito.

1091
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 2: That's insane.

1092
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 3: They're digging in the wrong place Indy.

1093
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,800
Speaker 1: Uh, he couldn't do it because of taxi. Uh.

1094
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 2: Jonathan Riss Davis had been in a movie called Shogun

1095
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 2: that Steven Spielberg had seen, and when they talked over

1096
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,319
Speaker 2: the part. Uh Ris Davies, who is six foot one,

1097
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 2: told Empire Magazine I went to see him and said, well,

1098
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 2: look it says here that Sala is a five foot

1099
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 2: two skiddy Egyptian bidowin. Are you proposing surgery? He said, no,

1100
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:55,279
Speaker 2: We'll just you know, make him a big guy.

1101
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 1: Uh.

1102
00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 2: He also told to Empire, I remember meeting one of

1103
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: the snake wranglers who had caught a crew member with

1104
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 2: this large snake. The guy said I just want to

1105
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 2: take it home for my kid. It'll only die anyway.

1106
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: The snake wrangler stuck it in the glove compartment of

1107
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 2: his car and forgot all about it. By the time

1108
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 2: he remembered, the snake had gone. Later, he was taking

1109
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 2: his wife and mother in law for a drive, and

1110
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 2: of course the snake reappeared. Oh God, classic bit mother

1111
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 2: in law snake in the car works every time. Paul Freeman,

1112
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: who played the slimy archaeologist Belloc, was pitched as the

1113
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 2: Champagne adversary to Indy's Beer. Among the candidate role was

1114
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:34,479
Speaker 2: the Italian actor gian Carlo Janini, and he almost signed

1115
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 2: for the part, but Spielberg saw Freeman in a BBC

1116
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: film called Death of a Princess. I guess this is

1117
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 2: just hilarious to me that Stein Speword just watches all

1118
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:45,040
Speaker 2: these movies. He's like, I want that guy because it

1119
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 2: seems like he's just his own casting director, which is

1120
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:49,400
Speaker 2: based on the movies that he watches, which is great.

1121
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 2: H He cast him the day that he met Paul.

1122
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 2: The day that he met Paul Freeman, and Paul Freeman

1123
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 2: talks about this. He went in and just saw Steven

1124
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: Spielberg and George Lucas on the floor the Walkman, like

1125
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 2: just toying around with the Walkman and they were like.

1126
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, check this out. Man hit it off. He

1127
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: was like, great, you're in the movie now.

1128
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 2: The most famous contribution that Paul Freeman makes to this

1129
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 2: role is the scene in the Canyon where Indy has

1130
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 2: the rocket launcher aimed at the gray at the at

1131
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 2: the arc and he's like, I'm gonna.

1132
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: Blow it up. I'm gonna blow it up. And he's like,

1133
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 1: you won't do it, mister Dr Jones. That's a great movie.

1134
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: That's good. Thanks. Good compressions on both Dr Jones.

1135
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 2: No, that's a little too British. I got that guy's British,

1136
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 2: but he's supposed to be playing French. His accent is

1137
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: just kind.

1138
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: Of broadly transatlant broadly, yeah, broadly European. So there's a

1139
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 1: scene where fly lands on his face and it seems

1140
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: to go into his mouth, and it's become such a

1141
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: thing that Pauline Kale wrote about it in her review

1142
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: for the film and Got what Paul Freeman calls his

1143
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: favorite reviews of his acting career, where she cited his

1144
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 1: extraordinary devotion to his craft. However, he didn't actually eat

1145
00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 1: the fly. In post production, the editors removed a few

1146
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: frames in between the fly strolling down his face and

1147
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 1: when it flew off to make it look like he

1148
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 1: had eaten it, and then the sound team also added

1149
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: extra buzzing into the mix to call attention to it.

1150
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,760
Speaker 1: Fun fact, that is the exact same canyon in Tunisia

1151
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: where the Jawas take R two D two in the

1152
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: first Star Wars movie and they pop up like that

1153
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: in India and R two gets shocked by the thing

1154
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:38,880
Speaker 1: is wow. You know that scene. There's a bunch of

1155
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: Easter eggs going back and forth between these two movies.

1156
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: You can pauseive freeze frame and ce C three po

1157
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: and R two D two are carved as hieroglyphics.

1158
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 2: In the Well of Souls no way. Yeah, yeah, it's

1159
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 2: a famous one, I think. And then the plane that

1160
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,080
Speaker 2: he takes off in that at the beginning of the

1161
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,720
Speaker 2: film has the its call sign is OB for obi

1162
00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 2: wan and three po.

1163
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 1: So that's that's cute. Uh.

1164
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 2: Freeman's favorite memory of filming was finding a lot of

1165
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 2: extremely cheap champagne in the hotel in Tunisia. The labels

1166
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 2: had washed off in a flood, but that was rather frivolous.

1167
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 2: I just love that much of the rest of the

1168
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 2: cast was rounded up by Brits. We have Denim Elliott

1169
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 2: playing Marcus Brody. I couldn't find anything about Denham Elliott

1170
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 2: being in this movie.

1171
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: He did like as much as I love him.

1172
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 2: And last Crusade, I couldn't find a single interview where

1173
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 2: we talked about making this movie. But there's a lot

1174
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 2: of other you know, British dudes in here. The creepy,

1175
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 2: giggling Nazi interrogator who gets the thing burned into his

1176
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 2: hand was that was originally offered to Klaus Frigginkinsky, which

1177
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 2: would have been horrifying because Klaus Kinski is a legitimately

1178
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 2: insane man, but he instead chose to appear in the

1179
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 2: horror film Venom because of the money was better. So

1180
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 2: Spooberg picked this guy Ronald Lacy, because he reminded him

1181
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 2: of Peter Lourie. And in the one creative decision, I

1182
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 2: don't agree that Steven'sberg made for this. When George Lucas

1183
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 2: originally pitched this character, he was going to have an

1184
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 2: antenna sticking out of his head and a robotic arm

1185
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 2: like Doctor Strangelove that he would shoot people with, and

1186
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 2: the gun barrel was going to be his index finger

1187
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: and that rules. Yeah, and Spielberger was like, come on, George,

1188
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:21,600
Speaker 2: dial it back. And maybe also for budgetary reason, probably

1189
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 2: British wrestler Pat Roach is killed twice in the film.

1190
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,800
Speaker 2: He's a giant shirpa in the Nepalese bar and then

1191
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 2: he is the German mechanic who gets purade by the

1192
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:32,920
Speaker 2: flying Wings propeller.

1193
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 1: No, no, I didn't like that. I just he didn't

1194
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:46,400
Speaker 1: hear me. I was silent laughing well. With the strict

1195
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: budget considerations in place, Spielberg hired four illustrators and gave

1196
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: each of them parts of the script, and he managed

1197
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: a storyboard about eighty percent of the film, or nearly

1198
01:01:55,680 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: six thousand images, and Spielberg kept to about sixty percent

1199
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,280
Speaker 1: of that. But he also had the art department builds

1200
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: scale models for each set, which helped him pre plan

1201
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: all the angles and shots for each scene. Principal photography

1202
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 1: for Raiders began in June nineteen eighty on again a

1203
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: twenty million dollar budget. It concluded that September, just seventy

1204
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,840
Speaker 1: three days of filming, which, considering how elaborate this was,

1205
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: is pretty pretty spry. That's nuts, especially with all the

1206
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: location stuff they had to do. Like just imagine you

1207
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 1: like lose a week in somewhere and that throws your

1208
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: entire thing off budget, and then you get financially reamed

1209
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 1: in the ass by paramount Like I can't believe they

1210
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 1: pulled it off. Filming took place on sets at Elstree

1211
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: Studios in England, as well as on location at La Rochelle, France,

1212
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: Tunisia and Hawaii. Spielberg wrote an American cinematographer, we had

1213
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,960
Speaker 1: almost four million dollars in sets alone, and when you

1214
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: multiply that against one hundred thousand dollars per day shooting

1215
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: on distant location and everybody's salaries and what it costs

1216
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 1: to day to shoot a movie internationally, you see why

1217
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 1: it made the film cost twenty million dollars. He also

1218
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: said that they couldn't even afford to use specific cameras

1219
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 1: like a luma crane. Luma crane, I don't know what

1220
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,040
Speaker 1: that is, but I imagine.

1221
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 2: I think it's the well, I think it's the crane

1222
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 2: rig they used to move cameras around. It's what they

1223
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 2: used in the Nepal lar scene or panaglide. They also

1224
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 2: couldn't afford that for the entire thing. They had to

1225
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 2: literally cam. Yeah, it's the steady it's the non steady

1226
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 2: cam one, but it is the same effect. As I

1227
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, the first location that they Why did I

1228
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 2: say that? Did I mention that earlier? The first location

1229
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 2: they shot at was in La Rochelle, France, one hundred

1230
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: miles north of Bordeaux.

1231
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: For the subscene. Things got off to a rough start

1232
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,000
Speaker 1: for the first two days.

1233
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 2: The weather kept them from filming anything, so again, that

1234
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 2: sucks when you have seventy three days to film. But

1235
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,680
Speaker 2: before they could even shoot a single frame, production faced

1236
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 2: a headache in securing a boat that could serve as

1237
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties era tramp steamer called the Bantu Wind,

1238
01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 2: which is what Indy and Marian take to London. There

1239
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:06,919
Speaker 2: was a replica in Berlin, but it couldn't be taken

1240
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 2: out to sea, so they found an Egyptian boat in Ireland,

1241
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 2: fitted it according to production needs and then just sailed

1242
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 2: it to France. Which I love. Love boat stuff, Jordan.

1243
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,320
Speaker 2: Let's speak of boat stuff. Let's move on to Jordan's

1244
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 2: Boat Corner.

1245
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 1: My favorite I love large boat Trivia. The sub that

1246
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:29,360
Speaker 1: Indiana Jones boards, and we'll use that term loosely in

1247
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 1: this movie is the very same one that appears in

1248
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Peterson's Dos Boot. Both films were in production around

1249
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: the same time, and Spielberg opted to work at a

1250
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: deal to rent their sub rather than building one from scratch.

1251
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: But the contract with the German owners of this sub

1252
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 1: had the production specify that it couldn't go out to

1253
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,959
Speaker 1: sea under certain conditions, and an engineer from Munich who'd

1254
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 1: helped build this sub was attached to the production to

1255
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 1: act as its handler sub handler. Imagine that being an

1256
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:59,520
Speaker 1: IMDb page, but that is a real German U boat

1257
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: penn Is where they dock you boats. And incidentally it

1258
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 1: was actually covered in Nazi graffiti and carvings, with a

1259
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: lot of bomb scarring and damage. And this is why

1260
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Peterson and Steven Spielberg became close, and why Spielberg

1261
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: did a lot of uncredited help on Wolfgang Peterson's child

1262
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: traumatizing classic The Never Ending Story a few years later

1263
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: in the eighties.

1264
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 2: Another apocryphal bit from that is that apparently the doss

1265
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 2: Boot Production didn't know that their sub had been rented out,

1266
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 2: so they all showed up to work one day and

1267
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 2: they were like, where's the sub And they're like, Steeve,

1268
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 2: what Spielberg's using it in France. I guess take the

1269
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 2: day off, go get some schnitzel. After France, production began

1270
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 2: shooting interiors on location in England. You mentioned earlier Elstree,

1271
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 2: very famous studio, is where a lot of the interiors

1272
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 2: were done, but the Rickmansworth Masonic School in England stood

1273
01:05:56,280 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 2: in for the interiors of India's fictitious Marshall College. The

1274
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 2: exteriors of that are actually in Stockton, California, at the

1275
01:06:04,680 --> 01:06:07,439
Speaker 2: University of the Pacific. One of the only other US

1276
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: locations that they filmed in was in Kauwhai in Hawaii,

1277
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 2: which is beautiful island where they also did Jurassic Park,

1278
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 2: apparently a big fave of Spielberg and Lucas. And another

1279
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,120
Speaker 2: one of the other scant US locations is San Francisco

1280
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 2: City Hall. At the end of the movie after they

1281
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,520
Speaker 2: get debriefed by the US governments, that's not in d C.

1282
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 2: That's the interior of San Francisco City Hall.

1283
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: When Indian Mary and walk off arm in arm. The

1284
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: opening temple scene is also noteworthy, not just because of

1285
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: the boulder chase, which you already covered, but it's Alfred

1286
01:06:39,000 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 1: Molina's first ever on screen role, and for the scene

1287
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 1: when when Molina turns around he's covered in Tarantula's Spielberg

1288
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 1: was annoyed because the spiders were being too sluggish for

1289
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: his tastes, and the animal wrangler said, well, they're all men.

1290
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 1: They're all males, so they don't have any impetus to

1291
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: behave aggressively because there's not a female in there. So

1292
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: Spielberger was like, well, then put a female in there,

1293
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 1: and of course they all started running all over Alfred Molina.

1294
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 2: And another fun Star Wars connection, there's a long, woody

1295
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 2: species of vine called old Man's beard that they used

1296
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 2: to dress the outside of the temple, which is the

1297
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 2: same they used for the Dagoba set in the Empire

1298
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 2: Strikes Back.

1299
01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 1: Are you a big Star Wars guy? I was.

1300
01:07:21,160 --> 01:07:25,080
Speaker 2: It's one of the biggest disappointments of my adult pop

1301
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:26,439
Speaker 2: culture life, you.

1302
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 1: Know, the prequels and beyond.

1303
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was thinking about that because that didn't

1304
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 2: happen with Indiana Jones until I was already dead inside,

1305
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 2: like twenty one or whatever, so.

1306
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: It didn't hit his hard.

1307
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 2: But man, the first Star Wars movies that I remembered

1308
01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 2: coming out in theaters were like even as yeah, I

1309
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 2: was like as a twelve year old, I was like,

1310
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:56,440
Speaker 2: these are not good anyway, but far and away. The

1311
01:07:56,480 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 2: biggest hurdle production faced was Tunisia, specifically the seventy acres

1312
01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:03,800
Speaker 2: in the desert of Sadala where it was one hundred

1313
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 2: and thirty degrees and then sometimes the breeze would come

1314
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 2: along and drop it down to around one hundred and fifteen.

1315
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 2: They had hired six hundred Tunisian extras for the dig scene,

1316
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 2: and Spielberg was working at a frantic pace to keep

1317
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:20,240
Speaker 2: the film on schedule, averaging thirty five shot setups a day.

1318
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 2: That is bananas. He's called Raiders the film that I

1319
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:29,639
Speaker 2: learned how to compromise on describing each scene, averaging three

1320
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 2: to five takes instead of something like seventeen, which is

1321
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 2: partially why the film feels so quick and.

1322
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:36,200
Speaker 1: Kind of add and loosey goosey.

1323
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 2: Paul Freeman, who played Bilock, told Total Film, I've never

1324
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 2: seen a crew work so flat out. You'd see them

1325
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 2: asleep with their faces and their lunch. Complicating matters was

1326
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: the fact that enormous percentage of the cast and crew

1327
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,719
Speaker 2: got sick. Jonathan Ris Davies supposedly sh himself in costume

1328
01:08:50,720 --> 01:08:54,439
Speaker 2: at one point while bending over, And of course, the

1329
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 2: film's biggest laugh line comes out of Ford's own battle

1330
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 2: with his guts. Originally the scene with the Swordsman that

1331
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 2: he you know, spoilers. There's a scene of this guy

1332
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:06,719
Speaker 2: who's this big simtar and he's like waving the sword

1333
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 2: around and you think it's gonna be this big fight

1334
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 2: scene and he just shoots him tremendous. That originally took

1335
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,320
Speaker 2: up like two pages in the script, and it was

1336
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:16,719
Speaker 2: supposed to be this big showstopper for how Indy uses

1337
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 2: his whip.

1338
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: They like pitched it.

1339
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:19,960
Speaker 2: They were like, Okay, it's gonna be this big, badass

1340
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 2: thing where one guy has a sword in India.

1341
01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 1: As his whip and blah blah blah blah.

1342
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 2: And then but Harrison Ford had dysentery and even worse,

1343
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:32,360
Speaker 2: Karen Allen told Total Film, the Swordsman was kind of inept.

1344
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 2: He had not really learned these choreographed moves and it

1345
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,759
Speaker 2: was looking like it wasn't gonna come off. So Harrison

1346
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 2: Ford told Entertainment tonight, I wasn't able to stay away

1347
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,240
Speaker 2: from my trailer for more than the length to shoot

1348
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 2: a magazine, which is the load of a film stock

1349
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 2: that a camera has on average, about ten minutes. I

1350
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:51,560
Speaker 2: thought about it. We had about an hour and a

1351
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,280
Speaker 2: half ride into our location. By the time I got

1352
01:09:54,320 --> 01:09:56,719
Speaker 2: to the location, I was convinced it was too much.

1353
01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:58,719
Speaker 2: I went up to Stephen as soon as I arrived

1354
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:01,200
Speaker 2: and I said, Stephen, why don't we just shoot this

1355
01:10:01,280 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 2: some bitch? And Stephen said I was thinking that too,

1356
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:08,080
Speaker 2: and movie Magic was born.

1357
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: Yes, things got so bad on location that they literally

1358
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 1: ran out of extras, and Spielberg conscripted producer Frank Marshall

1359
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: to act as the pilot of the Flying Wing during

1360
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,040
Speaker 1: the runway fight, and Marshall told Empire, Stephen said, go

1361
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 1: and put that outfit on and you could be the pilot.

1362
01:10:25,439 --> 01:10:27,559
Speaker 1: I said, how long is this going to be? Stephen?

1363
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm also the producer. He said, oh, just a morning.

1364
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,160
Speaker 1: It was about one hundred and fifty degrees fahrenheit in

1365
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:35,559
Speaker 1: that cockpit, and you have Karen Allen hitting me over

1366
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: the head with the chalks. That wasn't much of a stunt.

1367
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 1: It just hurt. It took three days, by the way,

1368
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 1: And that flying wing was designed by artist Ron Cobb,

1369
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 1: and that actually more closely resembles a look of a

1370
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 1: US prototype developed in the nineteen forties. And the version

1371
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 1: of the film was built by Vickers Aircraft Company in

1372
01:10:54,400 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 1: England and painted at Elstree Studios and then disassembled, shipped

1373
01:10:58,479 --> 01:11:02,560
Speaker 1: and rebuilt on location and then abandoned and then subsequently

1374
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:05,600
Speaker 1: disassembled again over the years by souvenir hunters, which I

1375
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: find cool. I wish I had a piece of that.

1376
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 1: They used to do that when they were shooting in Tunisia. Yeah,

1377
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: they left the sets for like TATTOOI right, Yeah, they

1378
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:16,240
Speaker 1: said the Yeah, it's just like it was just out there.

1379
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:20,360
Speaker 2: Apparently I can't remember where I was reading this now,

1380
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 2: but I think this was like sort of a Wild

1381
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 2: West era for shooting in that part of the world,

1382
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:26,640
Speaker 2: and then they sort of wised up and made it

1383
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,799
Speaker 2: harder for people to shoot there or more expensive or whatever.

1384
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:31,519
Speaker 1: So yeah, they would just build these sets and then

1385
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:33,599
Speaker 1: just be like, eh, We're done with it. Bye.

1386
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 2: Just imagine coming across a replica over World War two

1387
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:40,799
Speaker 2: era bomber with your camel or whatever.

1388
01:11:41,520 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 1: Is that racist? I mean, I just can't believe all

1389
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 1: the you know, Luke Skywalker's home and stuff was just

1390
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,559
Speaker 1: left out there. I mean, you know what I have

1391
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 1: to say about that belongs to the museum. Well. Of

1392
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,719
Speaker 1: the two brains behind Raiders, Steven Spielberg fared a little

1393
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 1: bit better in Tunisia were George Lucas's horror stories from

1394
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: shooting Star Wars there. So he arrived armed with cases

1395
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 1: of bottled water and can Spaghettio's which he stored in

1396
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:11,360
Speaker 1: his hotel room and he ate cold three times a day.

1397
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 1: And also my favorite, he also gaffer taped his mouth

1398
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:19,519
Speaker 1: shut while he showered to prevent water borne illnesses. George Lucas, meanwhile,

1399
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,760
Speaker 1: who again should have known better, considering he had dealt

1400
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: with all of the unique horrors of shooting in Tunisia,

1401
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 1: he had already been sent home from France with severe seasickness,

1402
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 1: so when he arrived in Tanisia to help to shoot

1403
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 1: the second unit footage, he was just absolutely hammered health wise.

1404
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 1: He got badly sunburned, to the point where his head

1405
01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 1: and face swelled up and he suffered permanent redness for

1406
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 1: the rest of his life.

1407
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 2: I don't think I realized that because he always looks

1408
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,200
Speaker 2: like ruddy and uncomfortable. Apparently it is because he got

1409
01:12:49,240 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 2: like severe sun poisoning in this Yeah, Steven Spielberger like

1410
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 2: sent him out with a camera. He was like, yeah,

1411
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 2: you can shoot some second unit stuff for me, and

1412
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:57,760
Speaker 2: George Lucas came back and.

1413
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,040
Speaker 1: Was like, put it right here on the fridge, no

1414
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:02,440
Speaker 1: one can see it.

1415
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,480
Speaker 2: George Lucas came back like, Stephen, I'm very sunburned.

1416
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: It's like Jesus, Chris, I can't trust you for one

1417
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 1: damn thing.

1418
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,519
Speaker 2: The film Them's Cairo that stands in for the City

1419
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 2: of Cairo is the holy city of Cawuron in northern Tunisia,

1420
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 2: the fourth holiest city in Islam. I don't know how

1421
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 2: they grade such things, but didn't make the top three.

1422
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:26,799
Speaker 2: She goes home to the Great Mosque of City Ukba.

1423
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 2: He is know the Great Animal story from the film

1424
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:31,759
Speaker 2: The Nazi Monkey Spy.

1425
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:35,280
Speaker 1: Can't believe we made it this far. To bad bad dates.

1426
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 2: The Nazi Monkey Spy Frank Marshall, producer Frank Marshall told

1427
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 2: Empire that was quite a day when Stephen said, get

1428
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 2: the monkey to salute.

1429
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 1: An amazing sentence one I was privileged to read.

1430
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:51,479
Speaker 2: I said to the animal handler, I said to the

1431
01:13:51,479 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 2: animal this is Frank Marshall. Again, I said to the

1432
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:56,120
Speaker 2: animal handler, showed me the monkey saluting. He went over,

1433
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 2: took a stick and tapped the monkey on the head.

1434
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 2: The monkey sort of protected himself with his arm, and

1435
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 2: that was supposed to be saluting. So we divived a process.

1436
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:05,559
Speaker 2: Put a grape on a fishing pole, pulled the grape

1437
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:07,519
Speaker 2: just out of his reach, and he would reach. After

1438
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:09,880
Speaker 2: about fifty takes, finally looked like he was doing his

1439
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,000
Speaker 2: hile Hitler five takes for dialogue, fifty takes to get

1440
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 2: a monkey to do the Nazi salute.

1441
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:17,280
Speaker 1: That's why he's the greatest of all time.

1442
01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:24,679
Speaker 2: From Tunisia, production treked to Kawai in Hawaii a week

1443
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 2: Awapa for the opening scene of the film. To get

1444
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:31,280
Speaker 2: the requisite misty mountain atmosphere. They brought smoke machines and

1445
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:34,320
Speaker 2: were just running across these open meadows to properly fog

1446
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 2: up the terrain and stay just ahead of the wind

1447
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 2: to get the shots. And even though it looks like

1448
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:42,760
Speaker 2: they're just like they took like a short hike to

1449
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,519
Speaker 2: get to this temple. That was like ten acres of

1450
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:48,400
Speaker 2: the island that they treked across for all these different setups,

1451
01:14:48,520 --> 01:14:51,719
Speaker 2: because Steven Spielberg is an obsessive and wanted very particular

1452
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:55,439
Speaker 2: parts of the jungle to serve his vision. If you're

1453
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,919
Speaker 2: ever on Kawai, the mountain that the Paramount logo dissolves

1454
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 2: into in that opening s is kallea mountain which is

1455
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 2: nicknamed King Kong. I had heard that that was a

1456
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 2: tribute to one of the first things that Stephen Ever

1457
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 2: did with the camera was like learn how to do

1458
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 2: like a match shot dissolve when he was making his

1459
01:15:14,920 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 2: little Super eight films. Sadly, they were beset by mosquitoes

1460
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 2: outside of the for the exterior of the temple that

1461
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 2: they picked. Despite being slathered with the stuff, they were

1462
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 2: all bitten to shreds, and they ran into further problems

1463
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,879
Speaker 2: with the donkeys that they had hired. Namely, the donkeys

1464
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,880
Speaker 2: crapped out and replacements had to be sourced, but the

1465
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 2: pickup donkeys were the wrong color and so had to

1466
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:42,960
Speaker 2: be dutifully painted brown with hair color spray. And then

1467
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 2: one of the last shots in the film was on

1468
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 2: the coast of Nepali and that is only reachable by helicopter,

1469
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 2: so they brought a crate, blindfolded the donkeys and airlifted

1470
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:56,799
Speaker 2: them one at a time onto location.

1471
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:02,000
Speaker 1: Tremendous stuff. The blindfolding really does it for me.

1472
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 2: Well, you know you can't have a panic donkey man,

1473
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,320
Speaker 2: that's just a recipe for bad luck. Jordan, Minie, you

1474
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about tell us a little

1475
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,439
Speaker 2: bit about that plane, because I know you love aside

1476
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 2: from boats, you love planes. I just love Air Force

1477
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:18,799
Speaker 2: one because of Harrison Ford read the damn.

1478
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,960
Speaker 1: Graft, Jordan. The plane Indianna Uses to Escape was in

1479
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 1: nineteen thirti's Waco biplane located in Junction City, Oregon, owned

1480
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: by Henry and Alice Stratsch. The plane was redressed with

1481
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,439
Speaker 1: little nods to Star Wars, which I think you mentioned earlier.

1482
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 1: It's identification I did, Sorry, yeah, Rob and three po

1483
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:40,679
Speaker 1: and it was flown by a real life pilot named

1484
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 1: Fred Sorensen, who was originally hired by Spielberg and producer

1485
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,680
Speaker 1: Frank Marshall to fly them around while location scouting in Hawaii.

1486
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: They actually crashed it once you write minorly, it was

1487
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 1: like twenty feet.

1488
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,280
Speaker 2: Apparently it was enough that they just did it again,

1489
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:00,760
Speaker 2: like it didn't mess them up to the point. You know,

1490
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:03,280
Speaker 2: Harrison Ford does not care about his own life, so

1491
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 2: he was just like, get me back on the plane.

1492
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I did it one more time, and

1493
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 1: that is the shot that appears in the film, and

1494
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: over a decade later, Sorensen wound up in their orbit again.

1495
01:17:16,600 --> 01:17:19,240
Speaker 1: He was working for Hawaiian Airlines when he and his

1496
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 1: crew volunteered for the Salvation Army to bring blankets and

1497
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:26,599
Speaker 1: water across Kawhi after a Category three hurricane hit the island,

1498
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:29,559
Speaker 1: and while there he ran into producer Kathleen Kennedy, was

1499
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 1: Spielberg's you know, right hand basically who enlisted him to

1500
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:35,559
Speaker 1: help fly the Jurassic Park crew off the island.

1501
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:37,920
Speaker 2: So that's cool. I just love that so much. He

1502
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,719
Speaker 2: came back ten years later and rescued all of them again.

1503
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:42,679
Speaker 1: Oh so good.

1504
01:17:45,520 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 2: As you meditate on that, we'll be right back with

1505
01:17:48,040 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 2: more too much information after these messages films Central mcguffin

1506
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 2: The Arc of the Covernant is sort of a real

1507
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 2: thing question mark. According to the Bible, the arc was

1508
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:09,519
Speaker 2: a wooden chest covered with gold, carrying a stone tablet

1509
01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:11,719
Speaker 2: of the Ten Commandments, as well as the walking stick

1510
01:18:11,880 --> 01:18:15,960
Speaker 2: that Moses brother Aaron carried In the Old Testament, It's

1511
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:19,080
Speaker 2: written that the arc helped move obstacles and poisonous animals

1512
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 2: out of the Israelites path, even stopping the flow of

1513
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,760
Speaker 2: obstructing rivers. When the Babylonian Empire conquered the Israelites in

1514
01:18:24,800 --> 01:18:28,120
Speaker 2: five ninety seven BC, the arc seemingly vanished. One of

1515
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:30,320
Speaker 2: the most consistent claims is that it is currently in

1516
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:34,400
Speaker 2: Ethiopia in the Saint Mary of Zion Cathedral of Aksum

1517
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:38,800
Speaker 2: in the north of the country, although, hilariously, much like

1518
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 2: the Mormon tablets, only one man is allowed inside to

1519
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,599
Speaker 2: see it, so it's authenticity has never been verified.

1520
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:48,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we have the arc, May I see it?

1521
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:54,520
Speaker 2: No raiders took the design from the ark by paintings

1522
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,320
Speaker 2: by a guy named James Tissot, who is he did

1523
01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 2: a bunch of Life of Christ and biblical paintings.

1524
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 1: He was a nineteenth century painter.

1525
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,519
Speaker 2: But that image of it where it appears in the

1526
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 2: Bible when they're doing the exposition dump about what the

1527
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 2: arc actually is. That was designed by Ralph mcquarie, who

1528
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,200
Speaker 2: is one of these concept artists with his fingerprints all

1529
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 2: over like the latter back half of twentieth century cinema.

1530
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 2: He is the one who did the concept art for

1531
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 2: Star Wars that initially helped George Lucas sell the idea

1532
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 2: to twentieth Century Fox. He did designs for Close Encounters

1533
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:30,240
Speaker 2: the Third Kind and e t both of the original

1534
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:31,920
Speaker 2: Star Wars sequels, and he went on to win an

1535
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 2: Academy Award for Cocoon. So he had a series of

1536
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:37,640
Speaker 2: rough sketches and he created this the illustration that's in

1537
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:40,519
Speaker 2: that book of the Arc destroying an army. And he

1538
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,120
Speaker 2: said they needed an antique looking image to match the

1539
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 2: look of an old Bible they had showing the powers

1540
01:19:45,240 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 2: of the Ark of the Covenant. I did a couple

1541
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 2: sketches for the design until I arrived at one that

1542
01:19:48,880 --> 01:19:51,120
Speaker 2: looked best on the page. I took photos of some

1543
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 2: of the guys at ILM to use as a photo reference.

1544
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 2: I etched a plate and printed it on rice paper

1545
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,600
Speaker 2: to match the paper in the Bible. I mounted the

1546
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:01,640
Speaker 2: print I made in the Bible which was colored and

1547
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:02,719
Speaker 2: washed by someone else.

1548
01:20:03,040 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 1: So that's insane to me. This guy created his own

1549
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:11,280
Speaker 1: etching and printing plate and then printed it himself on

1550
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: rice paper. Nowadays, photoshop incredible and they didn't have steady cam,

1551
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 1: but they went for that. Hell yeah. Fun fact. While

1552
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:29,599
Speaker 1: the original screen used ARC prop is on display or

1553
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 1: being held at gunpoint or whatever at Skywalker Ranch in

1554
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 1: Marin County. A prototype created by a prop man showed

1555
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 1: up on Antiques Road Show on twenty twenty after being

1556
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:42,280
Speaker 1: discovered by the man's son. They used it to keep

1557
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:45,320
Speaker 1: blankets in their San Francisco apartment when he was a kid.

1558
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:49,679
Speaker 1: I love that. It was like it was pretty junkie. Yeah, yeah,

1559
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 1: I was gonna say it was kind of chinzy. It

1560
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 1: was like made from like a hot glue gun and

1561
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: all the statues on it were like trophy toppers and stuff,

1562
01:20:56,479 --> 01:21:01,439
Speaker 1: and I think they used like photo frame edges and stuff. Yeah,

1563
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:02,960
Speaker 1: it was. It was just it was very much a

1564
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 1: proof of concept, but it was valued at one hundred

1565
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 1: and twenty thousand dollars. Hell yeah, it belongs in a museum.

1566
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 1: As for the horrifying powers of the ARC production didn't

1567
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:17,160
Speaker 1: really have a lot to go on. In terms of

1568
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 1: ideas in the script, the line was they opened the

1569
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:26,120
Speaker 1: arc and all hell breaks loose. Screenwriting major, I can

1570
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:29,120
Speaker 1: say that's lazy. I just love how lazy that there are.

1571
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 2: All their concepts were where it was like Steven Spielberg

1572
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 2: and George Lucas were like, Yeah, we're gonna have its

1573
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 2: gonna He's gonna be on a truck, he's gonna chase

1574
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 2: the thing that they just handed it to Lawrence Kasi

1575
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 2: and we're like, now you do the rest.

1576
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 1: They meet some cool people, they beat him up, he

1577
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:45,840
Speaker 1: beats them up. That's a fact too. Just fill it in.

1578
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:50,560
Speaker 1: Isn't that how it works? I mean, sadly, yes, can confirm.

1579
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:54,160
Speaker 1: But during pre production, a series of storyboard artists named

1580
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:57,760
Speaker 1: Ed Verrowe, Dave Nigron, Michael Lloyd, and Joe Johnson each

1581
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:01,439
Speaker 1: did a preliminary concept that ranged from ghosts to a

1582
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: firestorm to strange lights. George Lucas and Steven Spielberg liked

1583
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:11,040
Speaker 1: them all and asked Johnson with combining all three. Richard

1584
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:13,479
Speaker 1: Enlin and his team at Industrial Light and Magic were

1585
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,759
Speaker 1: responsible for pulling off this effect, which was a royal

1586
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:19,880
Speaker 1: pain because not only was Raido is very strictly budgeted,

1587
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:22,880
Speaker 1: but ILM was also working on post production for the

1588
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:25,920
Speaker 1: film Dragon Slayer at the time. They eventually went with

1589
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 1: the old cloud tank used in Close Encounters, which they

1590
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 1: combined with puppetry and other optical compositing techniques. Heigel tell

1591
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:36,559
Speaker 1: us about cloud tanks. I know very little about cloud tanks.

1592
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:38,640
Speaker 1: This is so cool. I love all this like in

1593
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 1: camera stuff. I mean it's not in camera, but it's

1594
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 1: close to in camera. Cloud tanks were developed by this

1595
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 1: SFX artist, Doug Trumbull for Close Encounters, and then you

1596
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:51,680
Speaker 1: see him again in Flash Gordon, which is hilarious. It's

1597
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:56,719
Speaker 1: really interesting. It's like simultaneously high and low tech. Basically,

1598
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 1: it is a tank in which different temperatures and densities

1599
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,320
Speaker 1: of water, so you have different salinity levels of salt

1600
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:06,599
Speaker 1: water to make it basically make them float on top

1601
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 1: of each other. It's the same principle as layered shots

1602
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:12,360
Speaker 1: at a bar. So they create these different layers in

1603
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 1: the tank and then they use a remote control arm

1604
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:20,479
Speaker 1: to squirt dyes and pigments into the tank at various

1605
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 1: intersections of these layers of water, and that's how you

1606
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:29,400
Speaker 1: get this crazy like swirling but still very distinct colors.

1607
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:31,519
Speaker 1: That happens, and then they basically just put this thing

1608
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:33,600
Speaker 1: in front of a camera and film it like a

1609
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 1: matte painting almost And boy will get to the matte

1610
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:39,720
Speaker 1: painting later. So one of the non puppets in that

1611
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:42,080
Speaker 1: scene is actually the lady who floats up in front

1612
01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:43,800
Speaker 1: of the screen and then all of a sudden turns

1613
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:45,400
Speaker 1: into a horrifying bool.

1614
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 2: She was a receptionist from ILM. They were just like, yeah, your.

1615
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:55,639
Speaker 1: Ghost, come here to take the phone off the hoot.

1616
01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:58,759
Speaker 1: They just put her long white robes, painted her face

1617
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,559
Speaker 1: and then had her sit on a trapeze like swinging

1618
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 1: seat in front of a blue screen and they had

1619
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 1: her swing away from the camera and then reverse that

1620
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 1: footage for the film so that her clothes and everything

1621
01:24:09,240 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 1: are all moving, all ghostly like. And then the sounds

1622
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:17,280
Speaker 1: of the arc are sea lion and dolphin cries through

1623
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:22,799
Speaker 1: a vocoder, which sounds like your average experimental show in Brooklyn.

1624
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:26,439
Speaker 1: Prince's less successful follow up to when Dove's cry and

1625
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,240
Speaker 1: the sound of the arc being lifted off is Ben

1626
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:35,559
Speaker 1: Bert's toilet tank at Home. That's amazing. Yeah, So for

1627
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:37,519
Speaker 1: the Nazis' grisly deaths.

1628
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:42,880
Speaker 2: Spielberg, who is Jewish, envisioned that each of them would

1629
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:48,000
Speaker 2: die horribly in different separate ways. So to achieve that end,

1630
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 2: they took molds of each actor, and then the makeup

1631
01:24:51,520 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 2: artist on this is a guy named Chris Wailas, who

1632
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:56,639
Speaker 2: would go on to achieve his own masterpiece a few

1633
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,799
Speaker 2: years later with The Fly, when he turns Jeff Goldblum

1634
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:05,439
Speaker 2: into series of ever more disgusting titular insect men. So

1635
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 2: he made a series of artificial heads from these molds.

1636
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 2: The guy playing the Kernel was rigged with these air

1637
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:14,960
Speaker 2: bladders that you know usually when you see like air

1638
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 2: bladder technology and films, it's for like a werewolf transformation,

1639
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:21,559
Speaker 2: and that's how you get you fill. You put latex

1640
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:22,960
Speaker 2: over it and then you pump air into it and

1641
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 2: it creates the impression that the flesh is like swelling.

1642
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:28,200
Speaker 2: That's like one of the big American Werewolf in London

1643
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,880
Speaker 2: transformation scene moves. But what they did in Raiders is

1644
01:25:31,880 --> 01:25:35,120
Speaker 2: they filled this head with the bladders and then that

1645
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:37,680
Speaker 2: were already inflated, and then when it came time for

1646
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 2: his head to kind of shrink down and mummify, they

1647
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 2: just sucked all of the air out of it with

1648
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 2: a vacuum, which collapsed the thing.

1649
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 1: It's cool. It took eight or nine people to control that.

1650
01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 2: Mechanism, just manipulating the different bladders and stuff that were

1651
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: inside the head. The interrogator tot who Tote who his

1652
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:58,080
Speaker 2: face melts.

1653
01:25:58,240 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 1: It's the coolest thing in the world. His model head

1654
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:05,640
Speaker 1: was made of a multi layered gelatin compound, specifically alginate,

1655
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 1: the same stuff that your dentist uses, and filled with

1656
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:14,680
Speaker 1: yarn also to mimic sinews and tendon, and they just

1657
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:17,759
Speaker 1: and they built it on a base of stone stone

1658
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 1: skull because they couldn't use anything that was more fragile.

1659
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:24,000
Speaker 1: Because the way that they achieved the face melting was

1660
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:27,559
Speaker 1: to actually melt the face. They just propped it and

1661
01:26:27,760 --> 01:26:30,439
Speaker 1: put two propane heaters on either side of it, and

1662
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 1: Chris Wayla stood under it with a hair dryer and

1663
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,040
Speaker 1: they just melted the thing down and it just got

1664
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:40,120
Speaker 1: all goopy and gross as it dissolved. And they just

1665
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 1: ran that in fast.

1666
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:44,160
Speaker 2: It was shot at less than a frame a second,

1667
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 2: so they timed its time lapse. And then for Bellach

1668
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:51,879
Speaker 2: they used a plaster skull with a bunch of latex

1669
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:55,000
Speaker 2: and gel over it, and then they just blew it up.

1670
01:26:55,960 --> 01:27:00,799
Speaker 2: They literally destroyed it with not just an air cannon,

1671
01:27:01,439 --> 01:27:05,120
Speaker 2: not just miniature explosive charges like the kind you'd see

1672
01:27:05,160 --> 01:27:07,520
Speaker 2: for squibs, however, but shotguns.

1673
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:09,480
Speaker 1: They literally seems like overkill.

1674
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,360
Speaker 2: Yes it is, and I'll tell you why they did

1675
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,799
Speaker 2: that because Chris Waylis, who.

1676
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:17,480
Speaker 1: Worked on The Fly. That movie is directed by David Cronenberg.

1677
01:27:17,640 --> 01:27:21,360
Speaker 2: Wayalis had previously worked with David Cronenberg on Scanners, which

1678
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:26,160
Speaker 2: features probably the most famous head explosion in all of cinema.

1679
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:29,240
Speaker 1: And to achieve that, they simply cleared the set and

1680
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:32,680
Speaker 1: fired a shotgun at this model. So when Spielberg was like,

1681
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 1: I want.

1682
01:27:33,080 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 2: To make this head explode, little light bulb goes off

1683
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:37,479
Speaker 2: over Chris Wayliss has head. He's like, I got just

1684
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 2: the thing, and it's disgusting.

1685
01:27:40,439 --> 01:27:43,360
Speaker 1: They used four or five pieces of primer cord to

1686
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 1: sever the neck, three different detonators under the eyes and chin.

1687
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:50,519
Speaker 2: Again in addition to an air cannon and shotguns. The

1688
01:27:50,600 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 2: head was filled with blood bags that they stuffed with

1689
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 2: just gross crap they had lying around, like dried latex

1690
01:27:57,240 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 2: and foam scraps. But also disgustingly bits of real, actual meat.

1691
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:04,599
Speaker 2: And worst of all, this had to be done three

1692
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:07,800
Speaker 2: times to get the shot, so they were just what

1693
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 2: a hoot and hauler man just firing a couple of

1694
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:12,759
Speaker 2: shot guns at a head filled with old meat.

1695
01:28:13,479 --> 01:28:14,639
Speaker 1: That's the title of my memoir.

1696
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 2: And it was so disgusting that, because there was no

1697
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,599
Speaker 2: PG thirteen at the time, this would have gotten them

1698
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:24,639
Speaker 2: an R rating, so that they had to optically print

1699
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:29,360
Speaker 2: the deflame effects over it to distract from how disgusting

1700
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:34,320
Speaker 2: it was. Another fun fact for your Jaws and Temple

1701
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:36,800
Speaker 2: of Doom specifically are two films that helped create the

1702
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:37,800
Speaker 2: PG thirteen ratings.

1703
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 1: I was just gonna ask it.

1704
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:40,760
Speaker 2: Same with Gremlins. I think I think it's a kind

1705
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:42,800
Speaker 2: of all right in this era where they were there's

1706
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:45,320
Speaker 2: all this stuff coming out that was should not have

1707
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 2: been shown to children, but was still getting PG ratings

1708
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 2: because they were like, well, it's not our rating. So

1709
01:28:52,439 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 2: thus PG thirteen was created. So probably the most famous

1710
01:28:56,280 --> 01:28:58,840
Speaker 2: Matt painting of all time. In the end that top

1711
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 2: men are taking care of it pant of the warehouse

1712
01:29:01,200 --> 01:29:04,959
Speaker 2: and the arc is being wheeled into the into that warehouse,

1713
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:07,799
Speaker 2: the government warehouse that's just filled with thousands upon thousands

1714
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,640
Speaker 2: of non aescript wooden crates containing all the wonders of

1715
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:14,280
Speaker 2: the world. So they also used a matte painting for

1716
01:29:14,360 --> 01:29:16,400
Speaker 2: the when the Nazis fall off the cliff. There's like

1717
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 2: three of them in the movie. But the warehouse matt

1718
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 2: painting was by a guy named Michael Pengrozzio. Took him

1719
01:29:21,080 --> 01:29:23,439
Speaker 2: three months to paint that onto a sheet of glass

1720
01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 2: and then what they do is just position that in

1721
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:28,840
Speaker 2: front of the camera. The only thing in that are

1722
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:29,519
Speaker 2: you looking at it?

1723
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:32,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? The only thing in that scene that isn't a

1724
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 1: painting is the guy walking down the path. Like if

1725
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:39,840
Speaker 1: you look at this matte painting and without the being

1726
01:29:39,880 --> 01:29:44,080
Speaker 1: composited in it's literally the nineties five percent of the frame.

1727
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 1: All that was actually filmed in there is just the

1728
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:48,719
Speaker 1: dude pushing the cart down the path.

1729
01:29:49,439 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 2: It's incredible. It's one of the coolest pieces of movie

1730
01:29:52,120 --> 01:29:55,599
Speaker 2: movie magic. Whiz Bang. Pengrazzio did this off of a

1731
01:29:55,640 --> 01:30:00,639
Speaker 2: single reference image of some boxes that he took and

1732
01:30:00,760 --> 01:30:02,520
Speaker 2: he worked for Island and Lucasfilm.

1733
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:04,800
Speaker 1: He went on to form his own company and won

1734
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:08,360
Speaker 1: six Oscars for visual effects so hell of a career.

1735
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:12,000
Speaker 1: You're just looking at this thing. Agog Yeah, it's a

1736
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 1: proper reaction, which is what I love. There's a great

1737
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:19,879
Speaker 1: composite photo of the scene completed and just the matte painting,

1738
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:23,040
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's just like this tiny little bit of

1739
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:26,880
Speaker 1: the path that the guy's walking down. And speaking of

1740
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 1: jaw droppingly great elements of this movie, the score come

1741
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:34,040
Speaker 1: on one of the all time great themes, courtesy of

1742
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:38,639
Speaker 1: who else, John Williams, the other greatest of all time. Yes,

1743
01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:44,640
Speaker 1: he told Empire Magazine that the score took him a

1744
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:48,240
Speaker 1: few weeks. He said, I remember playing Stephen a couple

1745
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:51,080
Speaker 1: options on the piano. He loved them and simply said,

1746
01:30:51,240 --> 01:30:53,559
Speaker 1: why don't you do both, which is the same thing

1747
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:55,800
Speaker 1: he said about what happens when the Archer Covenant stuff

1748
01:30:55,800 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 1: goes down. He really just is like, just do everything. Yeah,

1749
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 1: So those two tunes became the main theme and bridge

1750
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 1: what we call the Raiders March. The interesting thing about

1751
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,160
Speaker 1: the Raiders March is that it's a very simple little tune.

1752
01:31:08,360 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 1: But I spent more time on those bits of musical

1753
01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:13,280
Speaker 1: grammar than anything else. The sequence of notes has to

1754
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:16,799
Speaker 1: sound just right, so it seems inevitable, like it's always

1755
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:18,960
Speaker 1: been with us. That's cool, it's so good.

1756
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds like a it sounds like a like

1757
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:23,280
Speaker 2: a non shitty Sousa march or something.

1758
01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:27,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is really crazy. I guess I'm just

1759
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 1: thinking of Jaws in the Innana Jones theme. How few

1760
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:36,800
Speaker 1: notes he needs to make something that is instantly recognizable

1761
01:31:36,800 --> 01:31:41,160
Speaker 1: and iconic from the Jaws two notes Da da da

1762
01:31:41,240 --> 01:31:43,639
Speaker 1: da da da da. I mean that's just a handful

1763
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:44,160
Speaker 1: right there.

1764
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 2: You know, he's just a he's like a pop songwriter

1765
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 2: disguised as a composer. Man, he has just the best

1766
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:53,519
Speaker 2: melodies and tucked away in like these big, grand, sweeping things.

1767
01:31:53,560 --> 01:31:56,080
Speaker 2: And that's why I really think he is the best

1768
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 2: ever and maybe we'll be. I mean, because you look

1769
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 2: at other guys, like even the Newman's, like they have

1770
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:04,479
Speaker 2: really good themes, and a lot of my other favorite

1771
01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:07,519
Speaker 2: film composers have these really great orchestrations and stuff. But

1772
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:11,600
Speaker 2: John Williams man, he's like he's like the Beatles, Like

1773
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:15,080
Speaker 2: how many of his those scores are just slammed dunks

1774
01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:18,000
Speaker 2: and and it's just part of our shared cultural grammar now.

1775
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:20,599
Speaker 2: I mean, it's funny too, because you think of guys

1776
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:25,240
Speaker 2: like Hans Zimmer, who's like more of a soundscape artist

1777
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 2: and like palette artist than he is, Like I don't know,

1778
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 2: you can't. The most famous Hans Zimmer thing is just

1779
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah, that's not a hook. But John

1780
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:38,080
Speaker 2: Williams just has this stuff pouring out of him, just

1781
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 2: like another one, just tossing off these things that just

1782
01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:45,000
Speaker 2: become part of our They sound like they've always been there,

1783
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:51,280
Speaker 2: you know, And people have said, people have said that

1784
01:32:51,320 --> 01:32:52,640
Speaker 2: he is he is a borrower.

1785
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 3: You know.

1786
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:58,920
Speaker 2: Famously the Imperial March is from a Holst the Planet Suite,

1787
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:01,720
Speaker 2: and you know, people have talked a little bit about

1788
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:03,919
Speaker 2: how some of his big sweeping things like the Superman

1789
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:08,360
Speaker 2: theme and some of the some of the Star Wars

1790
01:33:08,439 --> 01:33:14,840
Speaker 2: stuff can be a little derivative, derivative in like universal generic,

1791
01:33:15,000 --> 01:33:17,599
Speaker 2: like just they just to put it through the sweeping

1792
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:22,479
Speaker 2: theme filter. But you know, those people, they haven't written

1793
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:24,360
Speaker 2: this stuff, like, holy god.

1794
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,360
Speaker 1: I don't tell you I met him. No, was he chill?

1795
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 1: Oh my god? Well, my mom went to Weird Story

1796
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:36,680
Speaker 1: the premiere of Jurassic Park Lost World, and she met

1797
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,479
Speaker 1: him there and then they she was flying back to

1798
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 1: Boston where we're from. And John Williams obviously conducted the

1799
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:43,960
Speaker 1: Boston Pops at the time, or I don't know if

1800
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 1: it was at the time, but heavy Boston connection. They

1801
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:49,080
Speaker 1: were sitting next to each other on the flight back

1802
01:33:49,280 --> 01:33:53,120
Speaker 1: like the next day, so they apparently had a really

1803
01:33:53,200 --> 01:33:58,400
Speaker 1: nice time flying back just chatting. And this was back

1804
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:00,000
Speaker 1: when you could actually go meet people at the game.

1805
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 1: When they got off the plane and they got off together,

1806
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:04,200
Speaker 1: Mom was like trying, come here, I want you to

1807
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,200
Speaker 1: meet I want you to meet this my new friend John.

1808
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:08,960
Speaker 1: And he was really sweet, super sweet. Yeah, he was

1809
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:10,640
Speaker 1: really nice to really nice to me. I would have

1810
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,880
Speaker 1: been like, what nine ten. Yeah, it was really cool.

1811
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:17,200
Speaker 1: It was a nice guy. I think we like walked

1812
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:19,680
Speaker 1: out like through security or whatever together, walked to like

1813
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:21,840
Speaker 1: baggage claim or whatever with him and stuff too, and

1814
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:24,840
Speaker 1: yeah he I mean I remember even at the time

1815
01:34:24,920 --> 01:34:27,599
Speaker 1: being like should she be leaving him alone now? But

1816
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:30,599
Speaker 1: he was just like seemed to be down the chat

1817
01:34:30,680 --> 01:34:33,040
Speaker 1: and stuff, like it wasn't one of those like Okay,

1818
01:34:33,120 --> 01:34:36,560
Speaker 1: let me go now I have places to go moseying

1819
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 1: on down there together. Yeah he was cool.

1820
01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:39,920
Speaker 2: I mean, he's the guy who like when a bunch

1821
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 2: of people that, but not a bunch of some kids

1822
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:45,080
Speaker 2: just like found out where he lived and we're playing

1823
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:47,479
Speaker 2: like the Star Wars theme on his lawn. Rather than

1824
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:49,280
Speaker 2: calling the police on him, he like came out and

1825
01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:49,519
Speaker 2: was like.

1826
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:51,640
Speaker 1: Sounds good. Guys like blah blah blah blah blah. You

1827
01:34:51,680 --> 01:34:54,000
Speaker 1: know they played it like on instruments. Yeah, I was

1828
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:59,000
Speaker 1: like two trombone players. Oh my god. Well for marrying

1829
01:34:59,000 --> 01:35:02,439
Speaker 1: in Indie's themes, John Williams took inspiration from old Warner

1830
01:35:02,439 --> 01:35:06,320
Speaker 1: Brothers love stories like now Voyager and what he called

1831
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:09,080
Speaker 1: the kind of melodic sweep you would occasionally get from

1832
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:12,479
Speaker 1: composers like Max Steiner. None of that means anything to me,

1833
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:17,920
Speaker 1: he continued Empire. I also remember doing pastiches of dark

1834
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:21,759
Speaker 1: orchestral stabs that would represent the evil Nazis as opposed

1835
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:25,080
Speaker 1: to the good Nazis. The orchestra hits these nineteen forties

1836
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:28,360
Speaker 1: dramatic chords the seventh degree on the scale on the bottom,

1837
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:31,680
Speaker 1: which is like an old signal of militaristic evil. We

1838
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:36,240
Speaker 1: just did it for the camp fun of it, and

1839
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:38,719
Speaker 1: it seems that's admissible in the style of a film

1840
01:35:38,760 --> 01:35:41,479
Speaker 1: like Raiders. For the opening of the Arc. I wanted

1841
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:45,120
Speaker 1: to try to evoke a biblical atmosphere, turning pages backwards

1842
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:48,200
Speaker 1: to early antiquity. The role of the orchestra and chorus

1843
01:35:48,280 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 1: is a complicated one in pieces like this. The music

1844
01:35:51,040 --> 01:35:53,040
Speaker 1: is to lure us in so it seems like it's

1845
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 1: going to be a beautiful experience, and then turn itself

1846
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:58,360
Speaker 1: into something much more terrifying. I think he does that

1847
01:35:58,439 --> 01:36:01,560
Speaker 1: a lot in the Last Crusade, when they're in the

1848
01:36:02,120 --> 01:36:04,640
Speaker 1: room with all the chalices in it. I feel like

1849
01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:06,720
Speaker 1: that's like a scene where it seems like it's he

1850
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:11,719
Speaker 1: chooses poorly, and he chooses the wrong Holy Grail, and

1851
01:36:11,840 --> 01:36:14,040
Speaker 1: the music starts playing something beautiful and you think it

1852
01:36:14,120 --> 01:36:15,800
Speaker 1: might actually be the Yeah, like pull the rug out

1853
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:19,720
Speaker 1: front of yeah. I love that the music has to

1854
01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 1: lure us in so it seems like it's going to

1855
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:23,840
Speaker 1: be a beautiful experience, and then turn itself around it

1856
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:27,800
Speaker 1: something much more terrifying. That kind of sonic transformation often

1857
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 1: occurs in opera, and it's one of the techniques a

1858
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:33,600
Speaker 1: composer has at his disposal. I'm not a composer, so

1859
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 1: none of this means that much to me, but I

1860
01:36:35,479 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 1: find it really interesting, and I'm happy for him.

1861
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:40,639
Speaker 2: It's it's frustrating when I because I want to find

1862
01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 2: out more about like the scoring and stuff, and it's

1863
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:44,160
Speaker 2: frustrating to me when they speak about it in these

1864
01:36:44,240 --> 01:36:47,920
Speaker 2: very vague terms. But like, you know, having the seventh

1865
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:51,160
Speaker 2: having in a what is that a first first inversions

1866
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:54,720
Speaker 2: third and base second versions fifth in the base, So

1867
01:36:54,760 --> 01:36:58,040
Speaker 2: it's a third inversion chord that he's talking about, having

1868
01:36:58,120 --> 01:36:59,800
Speaker 2: the lowered seventh in the base.

1869
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:00,719
Speaker 1: That's cool.

1870
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:04,400
Speaker 2: That means something to me. Raiders opened at a time

1871
01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:07,560
Speaker 2: when the American film industry, hampered by the domestic recession,

1872
01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:10,599
Speaker 2: rising film production costs and inflation of ticket prices had

1873
01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:13,320
Speaker 2: been down for a year, but over sixty films were

1874
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:16,840
Speaker 2: scheduled for release, with Richard Donner's Superman two expected to

1875
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:18,960
Speaker 2: be the big hit of the season. The New York

1876
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:21,439
Speaker 2: Times reported that with no brand awareness of the character,

1877
01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:24,639
Speaker 2: Paramount had provided theater owners with a more beneficial deal

1878
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:27,280
Speaker 2: than usual to ensure that Raiders was screened in the

1879
01:37:27,320 --> 01:37:29,000
Speaker 2: best theaters and locations.

1880
01:37:29,200 --> 01:37:31,879
Speaker 1: A press event was held for the film, starring two camels,

1881
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:35,240
Speaker 1: an elephant, and a python, that cost ten thousand dollars

1882
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 1: and Prince were delivered to theaters with unusually stringent security

1883
01:37:40,280 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 1: measures like lead sealed containers and letters to theater managers

1884
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:47,320
Speaker 1: holding them responsible for any misuse of the film in

1885
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 1: the US or Canada. That's weird. I mean were talking

1886
01:37:50,400 --> 01:37:52,400
Speaker 1: about earlier how they sent the script off the people

1887
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:54,160
Speaker 1: and they have to be in the room with a

1888
01:37:54,200 --> 01:37:57,240
Speaker 1: handler and for them and fly back to George Lucas

1889
01:37:57,280 --> 01:38:00,759
Speaker 1: and Steven Spielberg. Guess that continued even after it was released,

1890
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:04,679
Speaker 1: which it was on June twelfth, nineteen eighty one, earning

1891
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:07,720
Speaker 1: eight point three million dollars in its opening weekend and

1892
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:10,439
Speaker 1: going on to spend forty weeks straight as one of

1893
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:14,240
Speaker 1: the top ten highest grossing films in America. The film

1894
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:18,200
Speaker 1: remained a steady success. It left theaters officially in March eighteenth,

1895
01:38:18,280 --> 01:38:22,080
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two, which is geez nine months later, although

1896
01:38:22,120 --> 01:38:24,880
Speaker 1: some theaters were still playing it as of that July

1897
01:38:25,240 --> 01:38:27,880
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two, which is over a year after it

1898
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:32,400
Speaker 1: was released. Raiders earned an approximate total box office gross

1899
01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:35,320
Speaker 1: of two hundred and twelve point two million dollars, making

1900
01:38:35,320 --> 01:38:38,040
Speaker 1: it the highest grossing film of nineteen eighty one, and

1901
01:38:38,080 --> 01:38:40,599
Speaker 1: in total, it earned a worldwide gross of three hundred

1902
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 1: and fifty four million. It also scooped up five Academy

1903
01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 1: Awards the following year for Best Art Direction, Best Film Editing,

1904
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:52,280
Speaker 1: Best Sound, Best Sound Editing, and Best Visual Effects. The

1905
01:38:52,320 --> 01:38:55,120
Speaker 1: film also benefited from the burgeoning home media market of

1906
01:38:55,160 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 1: the time as well. In the early nineteen eighties, the

1907
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:01,519
Speaker 1: VCR home market was rapidly gaining popularity, and in November

1908
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:05,479
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, Paramount released a record five hundred thousand

1909
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:09,519
Speaker 1: home video copies of Raiders, priced at a whopping thirty

1910
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:13,120
Speaker 1: nine to ninety five. That's one hundred and twenty dollars

1911
01:39:13,120 --> 01:39:18,559
Speaker 1: in today's value. That's nuts worth it? Yeah, well, yeah,

1912
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:20,880
Speaker 1: but I mean how good were your home theaters in

1913
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:22,840
Speaker 1: that era? Too? Yeah? I see now, I'm like a

1914
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:26,960
Speaker 1: small yeah right. By nineteen eighty five, over one million

1915
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 1: copies of the film had sold, making it the best

1916
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:32,439
Speaker 1: selling VHS of its time. Well six years later, after

1917
01:39:32,479 --> 01:39:34,639
Speaker 1: the release of the third film in nineteen eighty nine,

1918
01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 1: McDonald's launch possibly the largest video sales promotion to date,

1919
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:42,280
Speaker 1: during which video cassettes of the first three Indiana Jones

1920
01:39:42,320 --> 01:39:45,479
Speaker 1: movies were sold at their restaurants for five ninety nine each.

1921
01:39:45,560 --> 01:39:49,320
Speaker 1: What a deal. Uh, you have skipped the critical roundup

1922
01:39:49,479 --> 01:39:52,240
Speaker 1: of Indiana Jones and Raiders of the Lost arc because,

1923
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:54,759
Speaker 1: to read the script, everyone loved this film.

1924
01:39:55,160 --> 01:39:57,120
Speaker 2: They really did. I mean, like, can be all these

1925
01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:59,880
Speaker 2: all these eber I don't I couldn't find. I mean,

1926
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:03,840
Speaker 2: someone has surely said a bad word about it, but

1927
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:06,280
Speaker 2: they were wrong. And then I just got distracted looking

1928
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 2: at pictures of Alice and Duty and last Crusade.

1929
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:11,640
Speaker 1: What a pretty lady she was. All I have to

1930
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:15,120
Speaker 1: do is scream yeah.

1931
01:40:13,800 --> 01:40:18,400
Speaker 2: Well, now under the real question, though, how accurate is

1932
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:24,120
Speaker 2: Raiders to the art of archaeology to anyone with the

1933
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:26,680
Speaker 2: reef working knowledge of the discipline? And the answer is

1934
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:30,160
Speaker 2: obviously not very But much like Top Gun, there was

1935
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:32,920
Speaker 2: a subsequent increase in students wanting to major in archaeology

1936
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 2: after the film's success. The University of California Berkeley archaeologist

1937
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:39,320
Speaker 2: Bill White told Smiths Sodian Magazine in twenty twenty one

1938
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 2: that Indiana Jones made him want to become an archaeologist

1939
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:45,120
Speaker 2: in the first place, saying, these movies aren't escaped from

1940
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:48,360
Speaker 2: many of us. I want non archaeologists to know that's

1941
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:50,400
Speaker 2: not really how archaeology is but I don't want them

1942
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:51,000
Speaker 2: to lose.

1943
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:52,080
Speaker 1: The value of these movies.

1944
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:55,360
Speaker 2: So probably the biggest thing from the get go is

1945
01:40:55,360 --> 01:41:00,160
Speaker 2: that indeed destroys quite a lot of historical sites, which

1946
01:41:00,200 --> 01:41:06,400
Speaker 2: is a pretty big no no, I'm told, do you think, yeah, okay?

1947
01:41:06,439 --> 01:41:06,719
Speaker 1: Cool?

1948
01:41:07,439 --> 01:41:09,439
Speaker 2: It is worth noting, though, in the second film, that

1949
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:11,639
Speaker 2: he does have a line that he understands, at least

1950
01:41:11,640 --> 01:41:14,360
Speaker 2: in this particular concept, the idea that certain artifact should

1951
01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:16,280
Speaker 2: remain with the people in the societies that they actually

1952
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 2: belong to. He's returning the stone to the village and

1953
01:41:20,080 --> 01:41:24,360
Speaker 2: then his awful love interest asks why he doesn't keep it,

1954
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:26,160
Speaker 2: and he says, what for? They just put it in

1955
01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:30,400
Speaker 2: a museum and be another rock collecting dust. More interesting

1956
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:33,400
Speaker 2: to me is that the field of archaeology has evolved

1957
01:41:33,400 --> 01:41:38,080
Speaker 2: today into a realm broadly described as cultural resource management.

1958
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:42,360
Speaker 2: And this is, according to the Smithsonian India, is ostensibly

1959
01:41:42,360 --> 01:41:46,320
Speaker 2: supported by his work at his college and by the

1960
01:41:46,520 --> 01:41:48,759
Speaker 2: British Museum. I think it is is where Marcus Burdy

1961
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:51,880
Speaker 2: is supposed to work, and that is accurate towards the time.

1962
01:41:51,880 --> 01:41:55,040
Speaker 2: But in the nineteen seventies there was legislation passed, particularly

1963
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:59,759
Speaker 2: the archaeological and Historical Preservation Act that opened up essentially

1964
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:02,320
Speaker 2: in a lot of cases a for profit industry to

1965
01:42:02,439 --> 01:42:05,400
Speaker 2: get government grants and government money to rather than go

1966
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:08,480
Speaker 2: places and retrieve things, or go on sort of unfettered

1967
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:13,479
Speaker 2: wild goose chases to find sites that are in danger

1968
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:16,479
Speaker 2: of being eradicated and preserve them, learn as much as

1969
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:20,439
Speaker 2: they can about them. Adrian Whittaker, an archaeologist with the

1970
01:42:20,479 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 2: CRM Culture Resource Management firm Far Western Anthropological Research Group,

1971
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:28,759
Speaker 2: which sounds threatening, told the Smithsonian Magazine that whereas Indiana

1972
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:31,519
Speaker 2: Jones is basically a solo operator with a small supporting

1973
01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:36,639
Speaker 2: cast an adversarial relationship with local people, contemporary CRM relies

1974
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:40,200
Speaker 2: on collaboration with the community to identify and protect resources

1975
01:42:40,280 --> 01:42:44,240
Speaker 2: from destruction, and sadly it would surprise no one that

1976
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 2: at this point archaeology is a lot less whip cracking,

1977
01:42:46,479 --> 01:42:50,960
Speaker 2: a lot more paperwork. Coordinating preservation work across multiple jurisdictions

1978
01:42:51,080 --> 01:42:55,200
Speaker 2: and different realms of legality like housing means a lot

1979
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:57,280
Speaker 2: of people working the field have to become experts in

1980
01:42:57,360 --> 01:43:02,400
Speaker 2: things like residence law on urban planningarticularly when urban development

1981
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:04,800
Speaker 2: beatends to encroach on one of these areas and they

1982
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:07,760
Speaker 2: have to figure out how they can, you know, do

1983
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:11,280
Speaker 2: courtroom maneuvering or file government briefs to stop it rather

1984
01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:15,759
Speaker 2: than punch Nazis, which is such a huge bummer. Sadly,

1985
01:43:16,080 --> 01:43:20,200
Speaker 2: even this podcast's favorite Indiana jonanline has evolved with the times.

1986
01:43:20,479 --> 01:43:25,160
Speaker 2: As conversations around repatriation of cultural items in museums continue.

1987
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:28,000
Speaker 2: The idea that any artifact belongs in a museum is

1988
01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:32,280
Speaker 2: itself under question. Stacy Camp, who works at Michigan State University,

1989
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:36,360
Speaker 2: told Smithsonian it belongs in a museum. Mentality has resulted

1990
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:40,679
Speaker 2: in archaeological repositories being overrun with artifacts and even ceasing

1991
01:43:40,840 --> 01:43:45,160
Speaker 2: to accept collections. Some archaeologists today employ a no collection

1992
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:47,240
Speaker 2: or repatriation policy in their work.

1993
01:43:48,160 --> 01:43:50,080
Speaker 1: I was just talking with somebody about that with the

1994
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:54,960
Speaker 1: reck of the Titanic, about the complicated debate around because

1995
01:43:55,280 --> 01:43:57,560
Speaker 1: the wreck is deteriorating and in the next ten to

1996
01:43:57,640 --> 01:44:01,080
Speaker 1: fifteen years it's going to start apsing in on itself,

1997
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:04,280
Speaker 1: and because right now the only things you're able to

1998
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:06,599
Speaker 1: salvage are in the debris field and not anything from

1999
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:08,639
Speaker 1: inside the ship. But they really want to be able

2000
01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:11,640
Speaker 1: to I think that the artifact that is up for

2001
01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:16,000
Speaker 1: debate now is trying to salvage the Marconi wireless system,

2002
01:44:16,280 --> 01:44:19,639
Speaker 1: which was used to call for help that night, and

2003
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:22,439
Speaker 1: it's in a relatively accessible place and could be removed

2004
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:26,320
Speaker 1: from the wreck, but it's in the last decade or so,

2005
01:44:26,360 --> 01:44:30,280
Speaker 1: the Titanic has gone from being history where the survivors

2006
01:44:30,280 --> 01:44:32,439
Speaker 1: were alive and their parents died on it and things

2007
01:44:32,439 --> 01:44:36,920
Speaker 1: like that, to be just sort of transitioning into I

2008
01:44:36,960 --> 01:44:39,400
Speaker 1: don't know what the term is history where there are

2009
01:44:39,439 --> 01:44:41,599
Speaker 1: no more living witnesses to it, and it's become something

2010
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:46,720
Speaker 1: where the kind of skittishness to take items from it

2011
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:50,320
Speaker 1: is starting to decrease because the people who can bear

2012
01:44:50,360 --> 01:44:53,360
Speaker 1: witness to it firsthand they're no longer here, and it's

2013
01:44:53,400 --> 01:44:55,520
Speaker 1: become something like, you know, you look at something like Pompeii,

2014
01:44:55,560 --> 01:45:00,200
Speaker 1: where obviously people died there, but preservation becomes the kind

2015
01:45:00,200 --> 01:45:03,800
Speaker 1: of the more critical focus than respect for the dead,

2016
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:06,000
Speaker 1: which is again a whole issue that I don't really

2017
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:09,240
Speaker 1: want to debate on here, but yeah, that's interesting to

2018
01:45:09,280 --> 01:45:13,000
Speaker 1: me that the whole notion of maybe it doesn't belong

2019
01:45:13,040 --> 01:45:15,600
Speaker 1: in a museum, which is something that I need to

2020
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:17,559
Speaker 1: stop and think about more because I know that's my

2021
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:19,720
Speaker 1: go to You know, I collect all sorts of weird

2022
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 1: little bits of historical ephemera, and I'm probably bording on

2023
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:29,960
Speaker 1: being a hoarder a certain point. You're not traveling to

2024
01:45:30,080 --> 01:45:32,519
Speaker 1: remote locations and stealing them out of it and taking

2025
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:35,479
Speaker 1: it from people. Yes, that is true, but that's also

2026
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:37,599
Speaker 1: that is a very important I remember I studied abroad

2027
01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:40,640
Speaker 1: in London, and our dorm was not far from the

2028
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:44,559
Speaker 1: British Museum, and there were I think, actually I remember

2029
01:45:44,600 --> 01:45:47,040
Speaker 1: there were a few pedestals of things that were like, yeah,

2030
01:45:47,040 --> 01:45:49,599
Speaker 1: we actually like sent it with a little like note

2031
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:51,439
Speaker 1: on it and said, yeah, we actually sent this back

2032
01:45:51,479 --> 01:45:53,599
Speaker 1: to like where we found it so that they could

2033
01:45:53,720 --> 01:45:56,000
Speaker 1: enjoy it for a bit, but it will be back soon,

2034
01:45:57,479 --> 01:45:58,880
Speaker 1: which I thought was at least a step in the

2035
01:45:58,960 --> 01:45:59,519
Speaker 1: right direction.

2036
01:46:02,479 --> 01:46:04,240
Speaker 2: One of the biggest changes to the field is even

2037
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:08,160
Speaker 2: the notion of who what an archaeologist looks like. Alexandra Jones,

2038
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:10,640
Speaker 2: who's the founder of Archaeology in the Community, which is

2039
01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:15,919
Speaker 2: a DC area nonprofit, told the Smithsonian archaeology is dominated

2040
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:20,479
Speaker 2: by women. White women have taken it over, and she

2041
01:46:20,560 --> 01:46:23,759
Speaker 2: said people don't usually expect me, as an African American female,

2042
01:46:23,760 --> 01:46:26,439
Speaker 2: to show up to these events. So I guess Phoebe

2043
01:46:26,479 --> 01:46:29,400
Speaker 2: waller Bridge and the New One is more true to

2044
01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:32,200
Speaker 2: life than we would have thought. Some of that new

2045
01:46:32,200 --> 01:46:35,560
Speaker 2: Indiana Jones movie focuses on the idea of Indie struggling

2046
01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:39,559
Speaker 2: to adapt to a modern world. It's a rich idea

2047
01:46:39,720 --> 01:46:42,320
Speaker 2: concept for a movie. You know, how does an antiquities

2048
01:46:42,360 --> 01:46:44,760
Speaker 2: hunter become an antique And it's kind of why I

2049
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:47,400
Speaker 2: don't care for those movies, or the Crystal Skull one,

2050
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:50,360
Speaker 2: because you know, I talked earlier about getting that kind

2051
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 2: of what we call the wizbang feeling from Raiders, and

2052
01:46:54,680 --> 01:46:57,439
Speaker 2: that's why I love the I prefer to think of

2053
01:46:57,560 --> 01:47:00,360
Speaker 2: this character and all of that as the last shot

2054
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:02,479
Speaker 2: and last crusade where they're all riding off into the sun,

2055
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:07,000
Speaker 2: literally riding off into the sunset, the platonic ideal of

2056
01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:10,880
Speaker 2: an adventurer that dates back to a time when the

2057
01:47:10,920 --> 01:47:14,280
Speaker 2: world had completely moved on from adventures even being a thing.

2058
01:47:14,439 --> 01:47:16,360
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the amazing thing about this right, like

2059
01:47:16,360 --> 01:47:20,519
Speaker 2: we're in this is created as a throwback a consciously

2060
01:47:20,560 --> 01:47:26,439
Speaker 2: backward looking character and consciously backward looking franchise by the

2061
01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:30,200
Speaker 2: late seventies, at which point, like were their places still

2062
01:47:30,280 --> 01:47:35,439
Speaker 2: left to adventure two. All of these concepts got so

2063
01:47:35,560 --> 01:47:38,080
Speaker 2: much more thorny and so much more complicated. And that's

2064
01:47:38,360 --> 01:47:41,200
Speaker 2: the real joy of this movie is how and these

2065
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:43,719
Speaker 2: the first three movies, is how pure that they remain.

2066
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:48,880
Speaker 1: So that's my final thought. Well said, I didn't have

2067
01:47:48,920 --> 01:47:53,920
Speaker 1: a joke, But are they stored in the Library of Congress?

2068
01:47:54,240 --> 01:47:57,160
Speaker 1: In other words, do these movies belong in the museum?

2069
01:47:57,640 --> 01:47:59,639
Speaker 1: I don't think this one is actually in the Library

2070
01:47:59,680 --> 01:48:04,280
Speaker 1: of COG. I think it's in in a five. Okay,

2071
01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:06,559
Speaker 1: you gotta say it. It belongs to me.

2072
01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:10,360
Speaker 2: It belongs to the Library of Congress. Folks, this has

2073
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:13,760
Speaker 2: been too much information. Thank you for listening. I'm Alex Heigel.

2074
01:48:13,479 --> 01:48:21,400
Speaker 1: And I'm Jordan Runtag. We'll catch you next time. Too

2075
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:24,880
Speaker 1: Much Information was a production of iHeartRadio. The show's executive

2076
01:48:24,880 --> 01:48:27,840
Speaker 1: producers are Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk. The show's

2077
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:31,600
Speaker 1: supervising producer is Michael Alder June. The show was researched,

2078
01:48:31,680 --> 01:48:34,720
Speaker 1: written and hosted by Jordan Runtalg and Alex Heigel, with

2079
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:37,879
Speaker 1: original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Spunk Orchestra.

2080
01:48:38,120 --> 01:48:40,120
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

2081
01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:43,280
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts and iHeartRadio, visit the

2082
01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:46,599
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

2083
01:48:46,600 --> 01:49:00,600
Speaker 1: favorite shows.