1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: my name is Nol. 7 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 3: super producer Paul, Mission controlled decand most importantly, you are you. 9 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 3: You are here and that makes this the stuff they 10 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 3: don't want you to know. Please listen closely, fellow conspiracy realists. 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 3: Today's episode concerns an absolutely horrific brutal crime. It remains 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 3: unsolved in the modern day. There's almost nothing in the 13 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 3: way of solid leads in a baffling case that is 14 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 3: stretched for decades now. This episode will contain at times 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 3: affect depictions descriptions of violence against children as well as adults. 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 3: As such, it may not be suitable for all listeners, 17 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 3: But we talked off air, we believe this story is 18 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 3: important and we hope exploring it on air tonight may 19 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 3: just possibly in some small way, help spread the word 20 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: and lead to a breakthrough. This is the story of 21 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 3: what's called the Setagaya family murders and the so called 22 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 3: faceless man. Here are the facts. Setagaya or Setagaya City 23 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: as it's referred to often in English. 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 4: It's huge. 25 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 3: You guys know, Paul and I have spent some time 26 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 3: in Japan. I never made it out there. I haven't 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: been there yet. But it's called a special ward of Tokyo, 28 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 3: kind of like how you know you have burrows of 29 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 3: New York. 30 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 4: Right. 31 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 3: We've talked in the past about how big Tokyo is. 32 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 3: It really hit me when we were learning about Setagaya City. 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 3: So if you look at a map, it's in the 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: southwest of Tokyo and it's along the Tama River, so 35 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 3: it's right at the border of the larger Tokyo Metropolis 36 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: and Kanagawa Prefecture. We are not native Japanese speakers, I 37 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 3: mean spoiler alert, so please bear with us if we 38 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 3: get some pronunciations wrong. 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 4: Here. 40 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: We do have the fact straight. Special wards are pretty big, 41 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: and this is like the biggest one, the first or 42 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 3: second biggest one in the US. This place would not 43 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 3: just be a city in its own right. The population 44 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 3: as of twenty twenty is just a little bit under 45 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 3: one million people. That means it has a population larger 46 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 3: than several US states. 47 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 4: Right at first, I was thinking, like, is this sort 48 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 4: of akin to a village, But no, this is not 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 4: at all. This is much more like a mini country, 50 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 4: almost like within a country. That's interesting. 51 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 3: And this our story takes place in relatively well to do, 52 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 3: not super opulent, but well to do neighborhood in Sedegaya. 53 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: It is a place called Kamisoshigaya. It's think of it 54 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: like a western suburb of Tokyo. It's a family place, 55 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: a lot of family homes, and. 56 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 4: You know, following suit with that, it not a lot 57 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 4: necessarily goes on in terms of criminal activity. It's very residential. 58 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 4: It's something you might describe as being a little bit 59 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 4: of a sleepy, kind of peaceful bedroom community. But on 60 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 4: December thirtieth and thirty first of the year two thousand, 61 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 4: that tranquil, peaceful feeling was completely uppended, shattered. At the 62 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 4: very end of the year, during that same period, the 63 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 4: Miyazawa family was murdered during a home invasion. 64 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, and let's talk about who that family is. 65 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 2: Miko's forty four years old. This is that the father 66 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 2: of the family. Yasuko is the mother. She's forty one 67 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: years old. And they are. There were two children, and 68 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: eight year old named Nina and a six year old 69 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: named ray r Ei. Yeah. I think that therein lies 70 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: why this is such a tragic story and why we 71 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: all kind of are in this place with our energy today, 72 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: because it's a family that was slaughtered in their home 73 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: at a time of celebration. The rest of the town, 74 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 2: the rest of the city, all of the whole area, 75 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: everybody is preparing to celebrate, and everyone is celebrating basically 76 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: at a time when this family is brutally murdered. 77 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, law enforcement as well is down to skeleton crews. 78 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 4: You know. 79 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 3: It's it's the border of one year to the next. 80 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 3: It's the time when people, even in a notoriously overworked 81 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 3: country like Japan or a notoriously overworked what country like 82 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 3: the U, even those even those cultures, try to take 83 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 3: some time off and be with their loved ones. Yasuko, 84 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 3: if you want to learn a little more about the family, 85 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 3: she had worked in cosmetics until she got married and 86 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 3: then she started essentially a cram school. Knowing that you know, 87 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 3: Japan has a very rigorous, quite competitive education system. Suicides 88 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 3: actually quadruple in Japan when some of those exam results 89 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 3: get released, so you need those cram schools. She you 90 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 3: could call it a tutor, but we just want everybody 91 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 3: to know it's a lot more intense than the word 92 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: implies in English. 93 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean i'd heard that term for the 94 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 4: first time actually in an anime not terribly long ago, 95 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 4: and it wasn't one that I was familiar with. Is 96 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 4: that like specifically kind of a Japanese thing? I mean 97 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 4: usually here they would maybe be referred to as like 98 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 4: taking you know, SAT tutoring or like kind of like 99 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 4: you know, studying in advance for US Pacific test. Can 100 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 4: you talk a little bit about more about that kind 101 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 4: of cultural phenomenon of what a cram school is. 102 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, it's a technically it would be like an 103 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 3: extracurricular but because it doesn't occur in you know, the 104 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: actual school system, but it's considered a mandate, it's considered 105 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 3: a necessity. There are things like this in Korea as well. 106 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 3: What happens is you are a lot of your future 107 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: success is going to be determined by your performance on 108 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 3: these tests. So cram schools, a class in cram school 109 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 3: can last for four to five hours after your actual 110 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 3: school is over. 111 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 4: So some kids. 112 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 3: Don't get home to even start on their homework until 113 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: like nine or ten at night. It's pretty brutal. 114 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 2: And my understanding is that she taught those classes in English. 115 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 2: Is that correct? That's at least what I had read 116 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: on Reddit, which again I don't know if I can 117 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: verify that. 118 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: I believe. I believe that is correct. 119 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 2: Matt. 120 00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 3: She again, like this would typically they're going to be 121 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 3: focusing on specific tests, So she probably had some specializations, 122 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: and if one of them was language, then it absolutely 123 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 3: makes sense because the best way to learn a language 124 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 3: is to hold discourse in that tongue. 125 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and only bring that up to open that door 126 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 2: for later in this episode about potentially a student of hers. 127 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: I think that's wise. Yeah. And the children were, let's 128 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 3: see Nina, that's Inia was in second grade and Ray, 129 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 3: being just six, was a kindergartener. Their bodies were found 130 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 3: at ten forty am on December thirty first, the very 131 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: last day of two thousand. Yasuko's mother, who lived in 132 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: a house directly next door, came by. She was concerned 133 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: because she had tried to call her daughter earlier and 134 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 3: had not been able to reach her on the phone, 135 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 3: and so this is if you look at the houses 136 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 3: and you can see pictures of them, they are they're 137 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: pretty much what you would call semi detached houses in 138 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 3: Britain or in the UK, excuse me. And they were 139 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 3: once part of a residential community that had hundreds and 140 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 3: hundreds of homes. But there was this move to create 141 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: a park that plays a role in the story. And 142 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 3: as people were getting bought out of the neighborhood, there 143 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 3: were fewer and fewer houses, and they were getting paid 144 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 3: a lot of money what would be called compensation money 145 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 3: to relocate. So this family, the Miyazawa family, Mikio Miazahwa, 146 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: his wife and kids. They lived next to his in 147 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 3: laws basically, and they're two of only four houses left 148 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 3: in the neighborhood. 149 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should just say, right behind both of 150 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 2: these houses is that park you're speaking about, Ben, And 151 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 2: we're saying how nothing really happens in this town. There's 152 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: no brutal crime like this. There are little annoyances like 153 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: there are in every other place. And one of those 154 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: annoyances was part of that park, right in. 155 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: The skate park skaters. Yeah, and so yeah, this is 156 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: the kind of suburb where the big news would be 157 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 3: that someone complained about the skate park right, or someone 158 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 3: was seeing punk and druplic and so on. So this 159 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 3: in this sleepy time what it's horrific because the grandmother 160 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 3: is the one who discovers the scene of the crime 161 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 3: at ten forty am. She goes just next door. The father, 162 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 3: the wife, and the eldest child, the daughter, have been 163 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 3: repeatedly stabbed in incredibly brutal ways, and the youngest family member, 164 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 3: the boy, whose room was on the second floor, have 165 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 3: been strangled, probably first, probably before the rest of the 166 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 3: family was murdered. Tokyo police arrived, they start investigating. It's 167 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 3: an mistigation that continues even today in twenty twenty three. 168 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 3: It's one of the biggest murder investigations in all of 169 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: Japanese history. It didn't take them long to determine a 170 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: rough timeline. They said the murders occurred probably somewhere around 171 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 3: eleven thirty pm to just after midnight, like twelveh five, 172 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 3: and it looked like a home invasion, as we're going 173 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 3: to see. The police were incredibly thorough credit where it's due. 174 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 3: They have a real solid sense of a timeline. They 175 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 3: have an absurd amount of physical evidence up to and 176 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 3: including DNA. What they do not have, however, is the killer. 177 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 3: And more than twenty years after the murders, this criminal 178 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 3: remains on the loose and possibly could be listening to 179 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: this show. Here's where it gets crazy. Let's walk through 180 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 3: this timeline, because again, the police have been they seem 181 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 3: one hundred percent convinced that they know the timeline up 182 00:10:58,200 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 3: to and including the order of the murders. 183 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 4: That's right, they believe, or at least the narrative that 184 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 4: the police constructed was that the killer entered through an 185 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 4: open window on the second floor bathroom the back of 186 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 4: the house. The rear of the house is directly next 187 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 4: to a park called Soshigaya Park, and the killer was 188 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 4: believed to have reached the window by climbing up a 189 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 4: tree and then you know, removing the screen from the window. 190 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 2: Strangely, the light in that room was supposedly on, which 191 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: is an odd choice for you know, someone entering a home, 192 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: you think that window, yeah, yeah, you'd go to a 193 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 2: darkened room or something. 194 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: But they also noted that if this were a robbery, 195 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 3: there's a lot of speculation we'll see because there is. 196 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 3: Weirdly enough, there's a dearth of evidence to support, like 197 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 3: for any kind of motive. We have a lot of 198 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 3: evidence for what happened, but not a lot of evidence 199 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 3: for why it happened, So it could be random, could 200 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 3: be targeted. You know, often in a home invasion, people 201 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: have a misconception and they say robbers want to look 202 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 3: for the most wealthy homes. It's not entirely true. Successful 203 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 3: robbers want to look for accessible homes, And with that 204 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 3: in mind, it is weird to go into a lighted window. Specifically, 205 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 3: I've got a picture of the of the house here, 206 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 3: and if you look at it part it's kind of 207 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 3: hard to tell which window this would have been, but 208 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: some of the windows are have bars on them, but 209 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 3: you can see there are a lot of trees close 210 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 3: by the park. Really does a butt right to the 211 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 3: rear of the house, I don't know. It makes you 212 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 3: wonder how much they knew about the house in advance. 213 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 3: Right Because the killer went directly to the youngest child's room, 214 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 3: entering the bathroom, and the kid's room was next to 215 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 3: the second floor bathroom, the killer used their bare hands 216 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 3: to strangle the child. Possibly this was to minimize noise. 217 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 3: The father, Mikio down in the living room slash study area. 218 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 3: He clocks something is wrong. He runs up the first 219 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 3: floor stairs. This house has three stories. The mother and 220 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 3: the daughter are already asleep on the third story. The 221 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 3: father catches the murderer. The struggle ensues. We know that 222 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: the father injured the killer, and then the killer took 223 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: the father's life. He was armed with a knife specific 224 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: type of knife, sashimi boto knife, which is used conventionally 225 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 3: to make sashimi. 226 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 4: A long, very sharp, thin blade, you know, that comes 227 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 4: to a very sharp point. 228 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 3: And it appears that the killing blow was the most 229 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 3: damaging blow was to the father's head. The knife was 230 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 3: stabbed in with such force that a piece of the 231 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 3: blade actually broke off. 232 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that was in the police report. Of course. 233 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 4: The killer then went on to attack Yasuko and Nina 234 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 4: with the remaining part of the blade. And also then 235 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 4: I believe obtained an additional knife from the house. This 236 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 4: sashimi blade was when he had brought with him, correct 237 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 4: or was that so okay? So then the second knife 238 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 4: was when he found in the home a different topic 239 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 4: blade called a sountoku knife. 240 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: And part of that is so strange to me, just 241 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: when you if you look at the diagram of where 242 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: the victims were found, right, Ray was in it was 243 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 2: in his bed, That's where he was found. The father 244 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: was found at the bottom of the staircase, kind of 245 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: near the door air and then the mother and child 246 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: were found up at the top of the staircase, kind 247 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 2: of to the side of it. I guess, around a 248 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 2: bit of a corner and. 249 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 4: Over the daughter. 250 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, the mother attempting to protect the daughter. Just imagining 251 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: where it all took place. Right, If you're a crime 252 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: scene investigator and you're trying to come up with all 253 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: those facts that we just stated, just that's a tough 254 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 2: thing to do. But it's also, in my mind, really 255 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: hard to completely get a picture of what exactly happened. 256 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 2: And you know where the killer came in. But in 257 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 2: this case, we're going to keep saying it. There's so 258 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: much evidence that's left at this scene that you really 259 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 2: could kind of piece it together. 260 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 3: I want to get to that part. Yeah, we're talking. 261 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 3: The extraordinary thing here is that the killer does not 262 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 3: leave the scene of the crime. The killer stays for 263 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 3: at least two hours, possibly up to ten, the entire 264 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 3: time they are we're certain its mail the entire time, 265 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 3: this murderer is leaving tons of evidence, using the family 266 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 3: computer or hopping online around one in the morning, eating 267 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 3: and drinking stuff from the fridge. He disconnected the landline, 268 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: and that landline disconnection is you know, what actually led 269 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 3: to the discovery of the body so recently after the incident. 270 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 3: If we think in terms of, you know, the other 271 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 3: variables of family murdered like this during a massive holiday 272 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: could have gone unreported for much longer. So he drank 273 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 3: a bunch of barley tea, we know, he ate melon 274 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: that was around. He ate four little ice cream containers. 275 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 3: He used the restroom and he didn't flush, so they 276 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 3: had his feces as well. And then he also used 277 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 3: first aid kits. They found, howel with blood on them 278 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 3: some of his uh. He napped on the sofa in 279 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: the living room on the sec They think, yeah, yeah, they. 280 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 4: Think to me, this is the kind of thing you 281 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 4: picture in like, you know, a silent Silence of the 282 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 4: Lambs type film, you know, where it's like a killer 283 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 4: who is just so callous and or unconcerned with being 284 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 4: caught that they just linger around, you know, and then 285 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 4: hang out and like sort of live in this you 286 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 4: know what I'm thinking of. It was not Silence of 287 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 4: the Lambs. It was actually the it's called it was 288 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 4: the original Hannibal Elector film by Ryan De Palma called Manhunter, 289 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 4: And there is a killer who kind of does this, 290 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 4: who like goes into homes as home invasions, kills the family, 291 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 4: and then sort of hangs around and just sort of 292 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 4: like occupies the life of that family. And that's just 293 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 4: utterly chilling to think about. You also have to wonder 294 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 4: if there's some deep seated psychological issues at work here 295 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 4: they would call someone to be so unconcerned with being caught, 296 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 4: I'd really quickly affair. Paul corrected me. Actually, Manhunter was 297 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 4: directed by Michael Mann, not Brian De Palma. But I 298 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 4: do kind of I don't know, maybe I've switched those 299 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,719 Speaker 4: guys up in my head. Sometimes they have similar stylistic choices, 300 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 4: but really cool film. 301 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 2: Well let's get let's stay over one second, just because 302 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 2: I do think you're on something there, Nol. It does 303 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 2: feel like either this person was extremely comfortable with death 304 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 2: and murder and murdering people to the point where they 305 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 2: would just stick around like this, or I think you're right, 306 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 2: something is really off, there's a some kind of state, 307 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 2: mental state that this person is in where they're not 308 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: even registering really mistakes or what's happening. 309 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 3: Unless you have repeatedly been in situations where you take 310 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:55,159 Speaker 3: people's lives. We have to naturally assume that a perpetrator 311 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 3: of crimes like this will experience shock, a profound amount 312 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 3: of shock, possibly disassociation. 313 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 4: You know. 314 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 3: Mental state definitely comes into play here. I agree with 315 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 3: you guys. 316 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 2: They might be losing a lot of blood quite. 317 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 3: Possibly, Yeah, but they wouldn't have lost enough blood to 318 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 3: impede their escape because, as we'll see, they got away. 319 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 3: The murderer did some things that also would ordinarily point 320 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 3: toward motive. But we'll see why. This is difficult to 321 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 3: say anything conclusively. The house had been ransacked, like you 322 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 3: know how it is. If you've lived in a family house, 323 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 3: you probably have a drawer somewhere with valuable paperwork, right 324 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 3: or certificates, bills, utilities, etc. All the jazz, all that stuff. Well, 325 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 3: the drawers containing that stuff they were torn open. There 326 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,199 Speaker 3: were papers scattered everywhere. Some papers have been dumped in 327 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 3: the bath, some in the commode. And some money was taken, 328 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: specifically money from the cram school where people were paying cash, 329 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,399 Speaker 3: but not all of it. The killer actually left a 330 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 3: lot of money, and they also left a ton of 331 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 3: items that they had brought to the house. The broken 332 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,679 Speaker 3: knife was found on the scene. Uh, there was this 333 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 3: stuff was on the sofa, a scarf, a hip bag 334 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 3: kind of like think like a fanny pack or sometimes 335 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 3: they call them a bum pack. Uh, a sweater, a jacket, hat, gloves, shoes, 336 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 3: two handkerchiefs, one of which was probably used to wield 337 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 3: the knife, and one that may have been used kind 338 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 3: of like a mask. 339 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 2: Ye. Again, one has been ironed, right, mm hmm, it's 340 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 2: really weird. Uh. 341 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 3: The also the handkerchiefs had Drakard noir on them. 342 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 4: It's just weird that now. 343 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 3: Colge Yeah, the colone, yeah, which has a very specific scent, 344 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 3: right it does. 345 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 4: And you'd have to imagine if that there could be 346 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 4: DNA involved in that as well, well, maybe sweat or 347 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 4: whatever it might be. I mean, good lord. You know 348 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 4: you point out in your research that it's like the 349 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 4: killer went out of his way or went out of 350 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 4: their way to leave evidence. And I think the previous 351 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 4: conversation that we have maybe in the case another element 352 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 4: there might be that it wasn't that they were going 353 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 4: out of their way to leave evidence, but just that 354 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,480 Speaker 4: there was a lack of awareness, you know, a lack 355 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:25,440 Speaker 4: of care because of any number of reasons. We'll discuss 356 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 4: further and get into. 357 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: Or and this is just conjecture on my part. Guys, 358 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 2: the killer was awoken suddenly after sleeping on that sofa 359 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 2: or falling asleep by the grandmother and had to just 360 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 2: GTFO and just left everything there on the sofa. That's 361 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 2: just I think a possibility. 362 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 3: It is a possibility. There are also shoeprints. We know 363 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 3: the killer was wearing size eleven white running shoes. These 364 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 3: were type of shoes that were manufactured in South Korea. 365 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 3: No shoes of this type and this size were sold 366 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 3: in Japan. Because what the police did after this was 367 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 3: to track down the provenance of any of these items. 368 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: They found that some of the clothing, not the shoes, 369 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,400 Speaker 3: but some of the other clothing, and that broken sashimi 370 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 3: knife had both been purchased in Kanagawa Prefecture. They analyzed 371 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 3: the poop, they saw that the murderer in the twenty 372 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 3: four hours leading up to the crimes had eaten string 373 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 3: beans and sesame seeds. They know a lot about this criminal. 374 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,520 Speaker 3: There's also you'll see a report that the computer went 375 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 3: online twice, once at one eighteen am in the wee hours, 376 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 3: and another a second time at ten am. But police 377 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 3: now believe that that ten am hop online with the 378 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 3: computer was because the grandmother had perhaps accidentally moved the 379 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 3: mouse when she discovered the crime scene. They did some 380 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 3: good police work here, and of course people are people 381 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 3: are baffled. People on closure. There's no shortage of independent 382 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 3: investigators who will allege that there was incompetence or even 383 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 3: corruption on the part of the Japanese police. But we 384 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 3: see that they they did digging that led to some 385 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 3: pretty important breakthroughs, like they found the provenance where the 386 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 3: knife and the clothing was manufactured. It turns out that 387 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 3: the sweater left there is pretty rare. Only one hundred 388 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 3: and thirty versions of this sweater were made and sold, 389 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 3: and police were able to track down twelve different people 390 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 3: who purchased those sweaters. Imagine those conversations. You bought a 391 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 3: sweater and the police are at your door, you know 392 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 3: what I mean. That's a very strange way. That's a 393 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 3: very strange day to have none of those people, in 394 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 3: the opinion of the authorities, could have committed those murders. 395 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 3: And there's one more piece of evidence that. 396 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 4: I don't know. 397 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 3: We'll see what everybody thinks. But this really surprised me. 398 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 3: This is not what I was expecting. We'll fill you 399 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 3: in after a word from our sponsors. 400 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:24,120 Speaker 4: We've returned. 401 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 3: Let's talk about the hip bag, the bum bag, the 402 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 3: Fandi pack. 403 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,959 Speaker 2: Uh. Yeah, so we've already seen with other pieces of 404 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 2: evidence that were recovered that signs are pointing to this 405 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 2: person probably not living full time in Japan, or maybe 406 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 2: not being from Japan and being here as a foreigner 407 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 2: in one way or another. And that's the same thing 408 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: you find with the bag, because inside there is sand 409 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 2: that is not from Japan. 410 00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is impressive. You can trace sand. You 411 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 3: can trace sand. I mean somewhere out there there's a database, 412 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,919 Speaker 3: likely multiple databases, of different types of sand. This sand, 413 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,440 Speaker 3: as you said, Matt, does not come from Japan, any 414 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 3: part of Japan. It is all the way across the Pacific. 415 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 3: This sand originates from the Nevada Desert, most likely from 416 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: an area around Edwards Air Force Base. 417 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 2: WHOA, right, it's now strange. Well, let's talk about that, 418 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 2: because you know someone who is military or ex military 419 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 2: at least trained with a knife in that way, that 420 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 2: would make sense for the severity of you know, this 421 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 2: crime and the cool potential cool displayed after such a 422 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: horrendous set of acts. So I don't know, that's interesting, right, Yeah. 423 00:25:53,520 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 3: And I looked around to to see what of US 424 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 3: military bases are located in Tokyo, and there are seven 425 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 3: US military facilities of some. 426 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 2: Sort anything near Kanagawa. 427 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 3: Not necessarily supernir, but there is obviously US military presence 428 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 3: in Japan. Police have the DNA, they have the fingerprints, 429 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 3: they have bloody fingerprints, and they of course they ran 430 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 3: this through their files. Whomever this person is, their info 431 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 3: is not available in any of those databases, so we 432 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 3: know this person, whomever they may be, never got booked 433 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 3: for a previous crime in Japan. 434 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just really troubling that they're not in any databases, 435 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 2: or at least that the Japanese police who are investigating 436 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 2: the crime have access to right any of those databases. 437 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: Then I'm sure there's cross reverencing that was done, but 438 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 2: I wonder how wide that DNA has been distributed over 439 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 2: the years to look at other databases. It also makes 440 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 2: me wonder about the friends of genealogy. Maybe there's something 441 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 2: there with this case. But let's talk about what we 442 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 2: know about the killer. 443 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's also note on the database thing that one 444 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 3: of the big questions I have at least two is 445 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 3: just on the just on the providence of that sand 446 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 3: is it. Is it enough for Japan to convince the 447 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 3: US to run this stuff through military database? 448 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:33,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? 449 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 4: Why not? 450 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I'm saying yes, I'm saying yes as well, 451 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 2: let's go. 452 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 4: But we didn't. 453 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 3: We didn't find at least so far, we haven't. We 454 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 3: haven't found any evidence of that or whatever happened, They 455 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 3: didn't set up, it didn't set off a match. And 456 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 3: like you were saying, Matt, based on this, the Tokyo 457 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 3: police have made some rough estimates about the person, some 458 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 3: of which are controver vial. 459 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 2: The first is the height. So the height of the 460 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,719 Speaker 2: person is around one hundred and seventy centimeters, which is 461 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 2: five feet five point seven inches, so about five foot 462 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 2: six so a fairly short mail. We also know that 463 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,119 Speaker 2: this person was very thin. They found because of their 464 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 2: clothes that were left behind. They found that his waist 465 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 2: was rather small. 466 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And they also believe that he would have 467 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 3: been born sometime between nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty five, 468 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 3: conjecturing that he was a younger person fifteen to thirty 469 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 3: five years old at the time of the crime. This 470 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 3: is based on their estimates regarding the level of physical 471 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 3: fitness required to get into the house and commit the murders, 472 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 3: and the idea of him having a slim build is 473 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 3: also based. 474 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 2: On that, yeah, climbing a tree to get into second 475 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 2: story window. 476 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 3: In a relatively small window at that so he was 477 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 3: also Unfortunately, this is part of the research that has 478 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 3: to be done that they looked at the bodies. Medical 479 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 3: examiners and detectives came in and they concluded that the 480 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 3: killer was most likely right handed due to the nature 481 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 3: of the wounds. As we said here, there's a lot 482 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 3: of blood, and you can learn quite a bit from 483 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 3: human blood. The killer had Type A blood, so that 484 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 3: means they could not have been a member of the 485 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 3: Miyazawa family. That's one of the things they had to check, 486 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 3: you know. Unfortunately, the killer is male, and there was 487 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 3: some in depth discussion of the killer's genealogical or genetic background. 488 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 3: Whether they were of mixed race, because originally you'll see 489 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 3: reports where they say the maternal DNA indicates some European lineage, 490 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 3: and the first way it was phrased was the mother 491 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 3: is of European descent, possibly from a South European country 492 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 3: near the Mediterranean or Adriatic Sea. Paternal DNA shows a 493 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 3: father of East Asian descent. However, we have to remember 494 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 3: two thousand was two decades ago. DNA testing, as you 495 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 3: guys know from various shows VP'D has come a long 496 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 3: way since then, and it wasn't like testing at this time. 497 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 3: One of the primary objections I've seen to it is 498 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 3: that they're saying, well, maternal DNA could just be an 499 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 3: ancestor on the mother's side, you know what I mean, 500 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 3: Like if there's a small amount of European DNA, then 501 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 3: I don't know. And it's shady. The way the public 502 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 3: got that news about the DNA. It wasn't from the police. Originally, 503 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 3: it was from someone who worked at a university that 504 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 3: was also testing it, and they leaked it to the press. 505 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and now that we're twenty three years on 506 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 2: and we've got things like twenty three and me and 507 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: all of these companies, like, why not test that DNA 508 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 2: all over the place because they've still got samples. I mean, 509 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: put that thing in every database, see what you find. 510 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 4: You might get a ping from a known relative who 511 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 4: might be able to help point out and the whereabouts 512 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 4: or have information. You know, you go interrogate this relative 513 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 4: and they're be like, oh, yeah, yeah, cousin Steve or 514 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 4: whatever was always kind of weird, you know. 515 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: Which, Yeah, was that Edward's Air Force base? 516 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 4: Mm hmm. Yeah. 517 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 3: And there there's another thing. There's a specific piece of 518 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 3: the DNA that is more common in people from China 519 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 3: or Korea. This goes back to what you were setting 520 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 3: up earlier, Matt, the idea that this person may not 521 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 3: this criminal may not have been a Japanese national, or 522 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 3: may not be based in Japan or from there. And 523 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 3: this analysis led the police to contact Interpol because they 524 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 3: currently one of the prevailing opinions is that this killer 525 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 3: might not be a Japanese national, might not even be 526 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 3: present in Japan anymore. Because remember Japan as a big 527 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 3: destination for tourism for kids on gap year, for international business, 528 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 3: a lot of people visit Japan or stay for a 529 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 3: number of months or stay for a number of years. 530 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 3: And as we said right now, this is one of 531 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 3: the largest murder investigations in the entire history of Japan. 532 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 3: We're talking the number keeps changing as time goes on. 533 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 3: Two hundred and sixty thousand individual investigators with eyes on 534 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 3: this case over the years, thousands and thousands of pieces 535 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 3: of evidence, more than like twelve thousand individual pieces, thousands 536 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 3: and thousands of tips that so far haven't really gone 537 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,719 Speaker 3: anywhere nothing. That's why over the years the press started 538 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 3: calling this criminal the faceless man. They also used another 539 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 3: phrase for this that some of us may have heard, 540 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 3: which I don't love, called the Goldilocks murders. Gets heard 541 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 3: it called that it's gross, but I get it. Yeah, yeah, 542 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 3: it feels somehow disrespectful. 543 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to mention something that was brought up 544 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 2: in some of the reporting, and it's something I didn't 545 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: think about, and I honestly can't see really the relevance here, 546 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 2: but I would just want to get your guys opinion. 547 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 2: Some of the reportings stated that the initial team of 548 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 2: investigators that went to this scene were essentially a reserve 549 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: unit or something because of basically everybody's on holiday, so 550 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 2: this is like the team that the B team or 551 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 2: C team that comes in to do crime ZNE investigation, 552 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 2: and all of the parts, basically all the information we're 553 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 2: working on was based on this team's findings. I don't 554 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 2: see how that could really have an effect on, you know, 555 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 2: the stuff we're analyzing right now and the things we're discussing. 556 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 2: But just want to put that out there to you guys. 557 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 2: Do you think there's a possibility that either stuff was 558 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 2: tainted or seen wrong or. 559 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 4: I just don't. I mean, yes, of course there's a possibility, 560 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 4: for sure. I just so many opportunities, various opportunities to 561 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 4: get clean DNA, to get clean samples. I mean, he 562 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 4: left poop in the toilet, you know. I mean, I 563 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 4: just don't understand. It's like it's like a slam dunk. 564 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 4: It just seems I mean, you know, I think this 565 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 4: is what it seems like. 566 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 3: If the investigation had not continued for so long, with 567 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 3: so many people re examining different pieces of it, then 568 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 3: I could see a stronger possibility that maybe a reserve 569 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 3: unit did the did the wrong thing. But we have 570 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 3: to remember too, a reserve unit is not necessarily like 571 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 3: the JV version. Yeah, the squad. They're they're the skeleton crew. 572 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 3: They're the folks who drew the short straw, and we'll 573 00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 3: just have to celebrate New Year's next time. 574 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: Exact I mean, well, and everything, you know, even in 575 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 2: the year two thousand, everything is digitized, right, So even 576 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,439 Speaker 2: the stuff that we're examining right now, it's the it's 577 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 2: the same. It's not the exact same, right, crime scene 578 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 2: photos and all of those pieces of evidence that were collected, 579 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 2: but it's very similar. It's digitized media that everybody else 580 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 2: is looking at of what the place looks like and 581 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 2: what was there? 582 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 4: Wait, sorry, was this was this ninety nine rolling into 583 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 4: two thousand or two thousand, early into two thousand. 584 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: Two thousand into two thousand and one, two thousand and one. 585 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 4: Okay, so it wasn't amidst the whole y two K chaos. 586 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,840 Speaker 4: I mean, not that that matters. I'm just saying, you know, 587 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 4: the why two K killer I could just see that. 588 00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I can see that as well. 589 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 3: I mean, people can be kind of soulless when they 590 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 3: start putting those names on things. 591 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 4: But even arguing that somebody lost there. 592 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 3: Because of the name, to mention things like Goldilocks and faceless. 593 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,479 Speaker 3: But I just see, you know, that kind of stuff 594 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 3: can't be exploitative. 595 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 4: I just meant specifically, if it were during that time, 596 00:35:57,800 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 4: the argument could be made that people were really like 597 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 4: going bananas, you know, because of paranoia about all the 598 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 4: things you're describing. I mean like digital you know, computers 599 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 4: resetting and all of that stuff. But there's all kinds 600 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 4: of doomsday preppers and stuff. I mean, I know that's 601 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 4: not that would happen, but that's just what occurred to me. 602 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 4: It's a good observation too. 603 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 3: I mean that's because again, nothing occurs in a vacuum. 604 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,320 Speaker 3: And that's why there are no shortage of theories attempting 605 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:27,000 Speaker 3: to explain this crime. And to be very clear with everybody, 606 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 3: none of the theories that we're about to discuss have 607 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 3: been proven, and we'll dive into those theories after a 608 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 3: word from our sponsor. Theories, Okay, the killer's motive, motives, 609 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 3: whatever they may be, remain elusive today. Again, none of 610 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 3: these theories have been conclusively proven. That's why there's still theories. 611 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 3: There are some people who are convinced they figured it out, 612 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 3: which we can talk about. But right now, I think 613 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 3: the biggest thing on The biggest one that you'll hear, 614 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 3: especially in the early days, was suspicion of a robbery. 615 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:07,719 Speaker 4: Right. 616 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, Given the fact that this is a pretty wealthy 617 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,040 Speaker 2: area we talked about at the beginning there, and the 618 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 2: fact that the house that we're talking about here, the 619 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: one that got entered into, was fairly isolated out by 620 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 2: that park, it would make sense that it would be 621 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 2: targeted in at least a moment of opportunity. 622 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:30,839 Speaker 4: Right. 623 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 2: Maybe you're at the park and you see these kind 624 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 2: of loan houses right here, and you think, oh, I'm 625 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 2: going to go in there and take everything that I 626 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,879 Speaker 2: can that's not locked down. 627 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, maybe we know that. One of the 628 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 3: theories argues they draw on all kinds of stuff. They 629 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 3: say that there was a person aware of the compensation 630 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 3: being paid to relocate right from the park, and that 631 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 3: they have believed that that money existed in cash in 632 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 3: the house. Maybe that was part of it, which is, 633 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 3: you know, an attempt to explain the paperwork being shuffled 634 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 3: around the fact that some money was taken, but again 635 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:20,399 Speaker 3: other money was left on the scene, and the Miyazawas 636 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,399 Speaker 3: had sold their home, but they just hadn't moved yet. 637 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:24,920 Speaker 4: This. 638 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 3: Somehow, this let some people to speculate there could have 639 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 3: been a hired killer and it could have been a hit. 640 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 3: The biggest proponent of this is an investigative journalist named 641 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 3: Fuyima Ichi Hashi, who claims to have solved the case. 642 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:42,839 Speaker 4: I don't understand the whole idea of how I mean, 643 00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 4: this is the hit. This is the least successful hit 644 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 4: man I could ever imagine hiring, you know, I mean again, 645 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 4: it's insane, and this person hasn't been caught yet. But 646 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 4: you know, if you're a hired killer, you're gonna come. 647 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 4: You're gonna pop in, pop out, do your business, and 648 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 4: leave no trace. 649 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, ideally unless you have been unless you have been 650 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 3: paid to do specific things like to kill someone in 651 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 3: a specific way, or to remove or lead or remove 652 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 3: or deposit specific items. I tend to agree with you 653 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 3: because it is very clear that at least two of 654 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 3: the victims, the mother and daughter were brutalized, were stabbed 655 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 3: and attacked after they had died, far after they had died, 656 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 3: So this could be indicative of an emotional motivation for 657 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 3: the crimes. If someone's doing a job, then they're probably 658 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 3: not going to stick around. 659 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 4: Remember that other family murder case that we did relatively recently, 660 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 4: where the bodies were posed sort of like a creepy sculpture, like, 661 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,400 Speaker 4: and we talked a lot about the motivations there, you know, 662 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 4: as to whether this was done to like send a message, 663 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 4: you know, maybe you're even like paying extra to get 664 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 4: someone to do some of these things to really like, 665 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,840 Speaker 4: you know, make it appear as as though something different happened, 666 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 4: or as though there was some sort of cultic reasoning 667 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 4: behind what was, you know, ultimately just a murder. I'm 668 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 4: not saying they're they're that similar, but it's something to 669 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 4: think about. We did talk about a similar angle on 670 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 4: that story, and the name of the family is eluding 671 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 4: me on that. 672 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,399 Speaker 3: One, the Sherman double murders that's right there in Canada. Yeah, 673 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 3: I was thinking the same thing with that murder in Toronto. 674 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 3: It's actually specifically what I was thinking because we had 675 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 3: talked in that episode about how it could be possible 676 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 3: that someone with an emotional motive paid a professional operator 677 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 3: to you know, to do that posing you're talking about, 678 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,919 Speaker 3: which is not out of the realm of possibility. 679 00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 4: I agree. 680 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 2: Well, let's let's talk about this. This emotional reaction here. 681 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,200 Speaker 2: So let's say it was a murder for higher situation 682 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 2: the person was supposed to go in or maybe it 683 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 2: wasn't murder for hire. Maybe it was get that money. 684 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 2: That's what the job was initially, and you know the 685 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 2: money is supposed to lead that was inside that house 686 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 2: that was given to them to move right, it's for 687 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 2: selling their house. Whoever sent the murder for higher believe 688 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 2: that was in there and they just wanted that money 689 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 2: and maybe that money wasn't at the house and this person, 690 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 2: you know, it made this person extremely angry that now 691 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 2: they have you know, been seen by an entire family 692 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 2: of people. And then it turns into the situation it 693 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:34,280 Speaker 2: turned into that's a possibility, But that seems that seems 694 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,480 Speaker 2: pretty far fetched to me, at least to my. 695 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 4: Lot of it. 696 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 3: THENDS to get there is the issue, right, like we 697 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 3: we would have to have a lot of things work 698 00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 3: out just so. 699 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 4: And the individual just you know, to be annoyed to 700 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,879 Speaker 4: that degree would specifically refer to like, oh, now I've 701 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 4: been put in this position where I'm at risk. So 702 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 4: to continuously exhibit behavior that just puts them further and 703 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,799 Speaker 4: further at risk just doesn't really line up. 704 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 3: I want to talk little bit about Ichi Hashi just 705 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 3: so everyone knows where this investigator is coming from. Chihachi 706 00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 3: has bona fides and has extensively researched other cases in 707 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 3: an incredible way. Their conclusion here remains controversial, and this 708 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,800 Speaker 3: is one of the people who believes they solve the case. 709 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 4: They say in. 710 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 3: Their book on this that they got in contact with 711 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,440 Speaker 3: a South Korean national who is only called K, like 712 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 3: the letter K in the book, and that this person 713 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 3: K pointed ichi Hashi to the direction of the actual killer, 714 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 3: a South Korean hitman who is given the pseudonym R 715 00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 3: like the letter R in this book. And ichi Hashi 716 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 3: says that they spoke to or they excuse me, they 717 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,320 Speaker 3: say they made contact with R, who is a former 718 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,240 Speaker 3: member of the South Korean military. Further, ichi Hashi says 719 00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 3: they take the man's fingerprints and these are a match 720 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,240 Speaker 3: with those collected at the crime seen by the police. 721 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 3: That's one author saying this not a member of Japanese 722 00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 3: law enforcement. 723 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 2: If that's true, then the author needs to like, what 724 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 2: the heck? If that's true, why has there been no 725 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 2: arrest made? 726 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,439 Speaker 3: Exactly there would if that was true there would have. 727 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 4: To be we talked about the Buddhist statue. 728 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 3: Not yet, we haven't gone to the Buddhist y. 729 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:35,800 Speaker 4: I'm sorry. This is just interesting and sinister, right, I mean, 730 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 4: unless I'm misreading it, the idea that perhaps the killer 731 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,280 Speaker 4: may have even returned to the scene of the crime. 732 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 3: Maybe, Yeah, that's an interesting way. I mean, there's also 733 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 3: I think this is something we're building toward a little 734 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 3: bit earlier. There's the concept of possible revenge. Maybe someone 735 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 3: felt emotionally scorn, maybe they resented the husband, maybe they 736 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 3: resented the mother, something like that. We just we don't know. 737 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,120 Speaker 3: It's well, let's lock get into that. Yeah, the cram school. 738 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,239 Speaker 3: Let's get into the Cram school. 739 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 2: Right, because there there's possible there's a possibility here that 740 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 2: a five to six, very thin person who was potentially, 741 00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 2: you know, pretty young, was the person who did this, 742 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,960 Speaker 2: and that could be a student, right possibly. 743 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 4: It doesn't that stuff seem like something a kid would 744 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 4: do eating ice cream, you know, drinking like you know, 745 00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 4: not flushing the toilet, not flushing the toilet, just eating 746 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 4: the junk food, you know. Just yeah, man, okay, go on, Well. 747 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 2: To me, like that's that's where most of this points 748 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 2: just in my mind that it's a student that was 749 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:46,280 Speaker 2: either angry because he was unable to perform on whatever 750 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 2: test he was cramming for, right, or he developed emotional 751 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 2: feelings for his teacher or you know, his tutor, which 752 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 2: is something an adolescent person going through puberty might do. 753 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 4: But what about the sand from from the United States, 754 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,120 Speaker 4: and and and uh, you know the whole they were 755 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 4: likely not a Japanese citizen. 756 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 2: Maybe they were studying and you're right. 757 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 4: That's exactly right, you're studying abroad, And then you would 758 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:12,640 Speaker 4: be you would have because it's a private school. This 759 00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 4: isn't a government but you pay to go to the 760 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:14,839 Speaker 4: school out. 761 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 3: The Cram schools, yeah, are private, private outfits. But then, uh, 762 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 3: to play point counterpoint with this, uh, it seems absolutely 763 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 3: unreasonable that the authorities would not have interviewed families associated 764 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 3: with the Cram school. 765 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well it's true, there wouldn't have been so. 766 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 3: Well as Mikio co workers. I mean, I think it's 767 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:42,279 Speaker 3: I think it's a very valid argument. I was thinking 768 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 3: the same too. We just didn't if they talked to 769 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 3: the families and possible students at the Cram School to 770 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,959 Speaker 3: get information which they absolutely did. 771 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 4: Then they would have clocked. 772 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 3: Something, right, I mean maybe the thing we don't know 773 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,320 Speaker 3: is they test everybody's fingerprints, right. 774 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,920 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, or DNA or you know, any of that, 775 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,759 Speaker 2: And I doubt they did. I doubt they went around 776 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,800 Speaker 2: asking for DNA tests from any of those people. 777 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:16,280 Speaker 3: They may have later in later decades, right as DNA 778 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 3: becomes uh, DNA technology becomes more affordable and more sophisticated. 779 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,879 Speaker 3: And I see the idea, like we can we can 780 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:29,839 Speaker 3: interpret that behavior after the murders as the behavior of 781 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,600 Speaker 3: an adolescent. But again, like so many other people, we're 782 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 3: we're attempting to build out possibilities based on very limited information. 783 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,120 Speaker 4: Really, and again, it could also have been the behavior 784 00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:48,440 Speaker 4: of an adult exhibiting some psychosis. You know, there's some 785 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:54,319 Speaker 4: some fugue states some you know, uh yeah, one hundred percent. Wow. Now, 786 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,600 Speaker 4: But when you said that, though, Matt, I was immediately like, yes, 787 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 4: but then you're rippen. Of course, they would have meticulously 788 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 4: gone through This isn't a massive population. I mean, you know, 789 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,080 Speaker 4: of students going to the school, they could have they 790 00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,480 Speaker 4: could have run through those possibilities relatively quickly. 791 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,839 Speaker 3: They also ran through the skateboarders nearby. We shall mention 792 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,880 Speaker 3: this before you get to the buddhiat statue. So there's 793 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 3: a skate park in the area and kids having fun, 794 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 3: you know, trying to do kickflips and Olly's and all that, 795 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:34,280 Speaker 3: and Mikio the father, had complained about the noise from 796 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,720 Speaker 3: the skate park, which is, you know, something a dad 797 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:44,160 Speaker 3: in a suburb will do. But this led some people 798 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,279 Speaker 3: to say, hey, because he complained about the skate park, 799 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,280 Speaker 3: did he trigger or anger. Some of the local skateboarders 800 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 3: and police actually went and investigated whether that was the case, 801 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 3: and they, I don't want to say, shook down. They 802 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 3: questioned the local skateboarders and again they came up with buppkis. 803 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about this too. Didn't we discuss this 804 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 2: in a previous episode, The culture around police investigations in 805 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:14,760 Speaker 2: Japan and how it is very different. 806 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 4: Ah, I would say that for the let's do it now. Yeah, sorry, 807 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 4: I know, An, you're right, No, you're right. 808 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,799 Speaker 3: You're right, because one of the concerns is like, that's 809 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 3: why we're saying they're doing for what we can tell 810 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 3: good police work at the top. Japan has an incredibly 811 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:35,240 Speaker 3: high conviction rate. Essentially, if they like you for a crime, 812 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:40,160 Speaker 3: you are going to be found guilty. And their conviction 813 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:44,120 Speaker 3: rate has raised a lot of questions over the years, 814 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:47,319 Speaker 3: a lot of very valid questions about how much emphasis 815 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,800 Speaker 3: is put on determining the true guilt or innocence versus 816 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,240 Speaker 3: how much is put on successfully closing cases. 817 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 4: But then to that end is maybe the preponderance there 818 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 4: ponerance is a lack of the glutt of evidence maybe 819 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 4: a bad thing because they can't just pin it on 820 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 4: anybody because they have so much damn evidence, so it 821 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:10,680 Speaker 4: has to really fit. So the fact that they can't 822 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 4: that you'd think, in other words, if maybe they were 823 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,640 Speaker 4: less evidence, they would have found some fall guy to 824 00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 4: pin it on. But in this case, because there's so 825 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,239 Speaker 4: much evidence that they can't find the real guy, they 826 00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:21,320 Speaker 4: can't pin it on anybody. 827 00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:28,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also there are also some behaviors or procedures 828 00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:33,840 Speaker 3: of Japanese law enforcement that other countries would find either 829 00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:39,319 Speaker 3: unethical or incorrect. And so for anybody listening in law 830 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 3: enforcement outside of Japan, tell us what you think about this. 831 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,000 Speaker 4: This is from Freakonomics. 832 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,880 Speaker 3: Highly recommend Freakonomics just if you want to learn interesting 833 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 3: things about the world. Japan has this very high conviction rate. 834 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 3: Japan famously has a low crime rate too. 835 00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:57,440 Speaker 4: Right. 836 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 3: Apparently, if Japanese authorities, for instance, discover a body in 837 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,120 Speaker 3: a public space, and let's say it as stab wounds, 838 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:11,759 Speaker 3: it's clearly a violent death, they'll set standards like a 839 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,000 Speaker 3: ticking clock for how much time they have to find 840 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,040 Speaker 3: a suspect. If they don't find a suspect by that time, 841 00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:22,800 Speaker 3: it's not an unsolved murder. It's reclassified as a abandoned body. 842 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,360 Speaker 3: So the case of manslaughter or murder is no longer 843 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,759 Speaker 3: officially on the books. They got cooked, right, So what 844 00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,640 Speaker 3: do you think if you're a law enforcement professional in 845 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 3: some other country? Does this happen? Should this happen? Is 846 00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,800 Speaker 3: this the right way to approach things? This also reminds 847 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:40,840 Speaker 3: me of our older episode of The Monster with twenty 848 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,640 Speaker 3: one faces. You guys remember that one? 849 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:43,080 Speaker 4: Yeah? 850 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 2: Yeah? And what does it say that this is a 851 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:49,600 Speaker 2: twenty three year old case and there's still not a 852 00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,719 Speaker 2: single suspect. 853 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:57,040 Speaker 3: Right exactly, And because of public pressure, of course, and 854 00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:02,480 Speaker 3: because of the just horrific nature of the crime, they 855 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 3: cannot do a reclassification trick on this one. You simply 856 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,480 Speaker 3: cannot try to frame this as anything other than a 857 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:11,520 Speaker 3: multiple murder. 858 00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,319 Speaker 2: Well, and that's another thing. Imagine that you live in 859 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,280 Speaker 2: the area, and on the front page of your paper 860 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,160 Speaker 2: the day you wake up, you know, on January first, 861 00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,360 Speaker 2: or you know, I think it was, you would have 862 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,680 Speaker 2: been really on the thirty first or the first when 863 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,120 Speaker 2: when you read about this thing, it's like the first 864 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,239 Speaker 2: day of a new year. This is the major case 865 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,359 Speaker 2: that's on the front page. You would remember that right 866 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,399 Speaker 2: going forward. And that's why I think there's so much 867 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:41,960 Speaker 2: that's been written about this case. 868 00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that. And now we know that 869 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,800 Speaker 3: the case definitely stayed right in the mind of Japan, 870 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,440 Speaker 3: in the in the mind of the community, and I 871 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,800 Speaker 3: think now we can let's get to that that statue. 872 00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:01,400 Speaker 3: So a few months after the murders, right in December 873 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,560 Speaker 3: thirtieth thirty first of two thousand, in April of two 874 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:09,239 Speaker 3: thousand and one, someone went to the neighborhood, went near 875 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 3: the house, and they left this two foot tall Buddhist 876 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:15,239 Speaker 3: statue there. 877 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,879 Speaker 4: And you can pull up a picture of this. It's not. 878 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,160 Speaker 3: It's not a statue that I was familiar with beforehand, 879 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,239 Speaker 3: but it was definitely. It seems to have been left 880 00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,319 Speaker 3: there in reference to the murders. 881 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,480 Speaker 2: Okay, in reference to the murders, like in honor of 882 00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:34,719 Speaker 2: the victims. 883 00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 3: Or unclear, And they still don't know who gave the no. 884 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:40,880 Speaker 3: I think is probably why it sticks out in your 885 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,440 Speaker 3: mind too. They still don't know who put the statue there, Like, 886 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,279 Speaker 3: is it like a commemoration where you would see at 887 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:47,320 Speaker 3: a roadside accident. 888 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you know, it is the protector of 889 00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:53,480 Speaker 4: lost or dead children, but it also I don't know, 890 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,480 Speaker 4: maybe that's just my or our brain's kind of filtering 891 00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:59,719 Speaker 4: it through pop culture. The idea of a you know, 892 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,200 Speaker 4: murderer returning to the scene and leaving some token, you know, 893 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,080 Speaker 4: that's where my brain goes. But that's probably the least 894 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,799 Speaker 4: likely option. This person is probably long long gone. I 895 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,840 Speaker 4: just can't you know, again, the police really treated this 896 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 4: with a lot of attention to detail and fastidiousness, and 897 00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,799 Speaker 4: I just can't imagine if this person wasn't utterly in 898 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:26,400 Speaker 4: the wind, that they wouldn't have, you know, gotten a 899 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,480 Speaker 4: whiff of of this person's whereabouts. 900 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a Jizo bodhisatfa, which is, as we mentioned, 901 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,960 Speaker 3: considered to be a guardian of dead children. Police, you know, 902 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:42,160 Speaker 3: still desperate for leads. Police printed thousands, thousands of posters 903 00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,919 Speaker 3: with a photo of this statue, and you can pull 904 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:46,680 Speaker 3: up you can pull up one of the posters. Now 905 00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:49,879 Speaker 3: it's in Japanese, but you can see it online. And 906 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 3: they were hoping members of the public could come forward 907 00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 3: with information, right because again, any unanswered question might be 908 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:05,440 Speaker 3: the thing that breaks the case. This set. It's difficult 909 00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,360 Speaker 3: to say just how much this rocked the country of Japan. 910 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,160 Speaker 3: It triggered changes in the law. For a long time, 911 00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:15,640 Speaker 3: Japan had a statute of limitations, and as time went on, 912 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:21,440 Speaker 3: relative survivors, the grandmother who found the bodies and remains alive, 913 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,080 Speaker 3: they were horrified by the idea that due to the 914 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:30,200 Speaker 3: statute of limitations, this murderer might be found after that 915 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:36,560 Speaker 3: statute had expired and then they couldn't be prosecuted. This case, 916 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,480 Speaker 3: in fact, is the primary reason Japan removed that statue 917 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,000 Speaker 3: of limitations in twenty ten, which I think is a 918 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,920 Speaker 3: positive change. They didn't remove it for everything. They removed 919 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:50,360 Speaker 3: it in cases where conviction might lead to the death penalty, 920 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,600 Speaker 3: and of course Japan still ast the death penalty and 921 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,200 Speaker 3: they do it in a very strange way. We talked 922 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,960 Speaker 3: about this before on air. I think, like how they 923 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:03,280 Speaker 3: execute you. They don't tell you what day it is, Yep, surprise, 924 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,360 Speaker 3: they just show up. Could be several months, could be 925 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,719 Speaker 3: several years, one day it's the day. 926 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:14,480 Speaker 2: It's an interesting psychological technique. 927 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,040 Speaker 4: You're a mind freak. 928 00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:20,640 Speaker 3: And while we're on the subject, you can read a 929 00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,239 Speaker 3: bunch of flyers that have come out over time. Detectives 930 00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,640 Speaker 3: have put them in, Retired detectives have put them in. 931 00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:33,520 Speaker 3: Supporters of the family action groups have printed pamphlets. People 932 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 3: hold demonstrations at the train station near the neighborhood or 933 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,920 Speaker 3: near the house, and police are still handing out flyers 934 00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,560 Speaker 3: each year around December, around the anniversary of the crimes. 935 00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,560 Speaker 3: In twenty nineteen, police made plans to tear down the house. 936 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:55,320 Speaker 3: You know, Japan and general treats older houses differently from 937 00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,360 Speaker 3: what we might expect in the West, but families and 938 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:05,240 Speaker 3: supporters appealed the decision and so the house still stands today. 939 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,960 Speaker 3: You can see a video tour from when one of 940 00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:13,359 Speaker 3: the survivors opened the house to the press and it's 941 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,360 Speaker 3: just heartbreaking, man. I don't say it lightly. It's people 942 00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 3: who are living just a wonderful dream of a life 943 00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:27,440 Speaker 3: just cut short in such a horrible, horrible way. And 944 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 3: this is the same thing that has haunted investigators like 945 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,920 Speaker 3: we were talking off here. Takashi Sushida, who headed the 946 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:41,200 Speaker 3: initial investigation, still visits the site regularly, still goes over 947 00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,320 Speaker 3: the clues obsessively hoping to get a break in the case, 948 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,000 Speaker 3: and has become a very close friend of the grandmother. 949 00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:52,040 Speaker 4: Yeah again, I think, well, maybe we could be visit 950 00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,279 Speaker 4: just for a few seconds, this idea of the super 951 00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,600 Speaker 4: high conviction rate. I don't think we're necessarily making any 952 00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:03,839 Speaker 4: accusations there, but is the conjecture that, perhaps, especially in 953 00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:07,839 Speaker 4: a part of the country that maybe is a little 954 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,000 Speaker 4: bit more iron fisted in terms of the way they govern, 955 00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,520 Speaker 4: that maybe some of these cases are being pinned on 956 00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 4: fall individuals. Is that, oh, absolutely okay? Just to make 957 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:19,800 Speaker 4: you putting them all on the tables, making. 958 00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:25,480 Speaker 3: Sure interrogations are not recorded, stress positions are used, they 959 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,160 Speaker 3: will lock you up four days. 960 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:27,760 Speaker 4: Apparently. 961 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,240 Speaker 3: The kind of thing is if they're actually arresting you 962 00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,360 Speaker 3: and detaining you, and they like you for the crime, 963 00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,480 Speaker 3: they'll just do their best to get. 964 00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,880 Speaker 4: You to say you did it unless they find someone 965 00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:38,479 Speaker 4: they like better. 966 00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, unless they find unless there's a new bell of 967 00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:42,320 Speaker 3: the criminal ball. 968 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,400 Speaker 4: Yes, so it is unusual in this case, they wouldn't 969 00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,360 Speaker 4: have even had a true person of interest. And I 970 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,800 Speaker 4: think maybe I was right, or we're all leading the 971 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:55,160 Speaker 4: same direction that the absolute overwhelming amount of evidence could 972 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,320 Speaker 4: have been a hindrance to them being able to do that. 973 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:02,320 Speaker 3: That may be the case. We are not We're not 974 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,760 Speaker 3: able to make the call on that. There was something 975 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:10,520 Speaker 3: really interesting, Sushida said. A few years back, you're or 976 00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:14,920 Speaker 3: two back, he said the same thing we're saying earlier. 977 00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:17,440 Speaker 4: DNA has come a long way. 978 00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:22,800 Speaker 3: And he said, why haven't we used DNA to attempt 979 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,160 Speaker 3: to make a facial composite, right, which is technology that 980 00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:30,760 Speaker 3: now exists. It's very imperfect, but it's something he's saying, 981 00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,520 Speaker 3: let's give a face to this faceless man as we record. 982 00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,640 Speaker 3: That hasn't happened. I don't know how much how much 983 00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,040 Speaker 3: health help it would be, because we've talked about it 984 00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,840 Speaker 3: in the past. Those creating a face from DNA evidence. 985 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:48,280 Speaker 4: Is I don't know. 986 00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:51,160 Speaker 3: It doesn't account for anything that might happen as a 987 00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:52,280 Speaker 3: result of environment. 988 00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:53,600 Speaker 4: You know, or lifestyle. 989 00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,960 Speaker 3: It's it's still is something and I think at this 990 00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:58,560 Speaker 3: point you got to do something right. 991 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for genealogy is the way to go, 992 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,760 Speaker 2: Like just send out that DNA for sampling testing, added 993 00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,720 Speaker 2: to the database, see where where those connections are, and 994 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,680 Speaker 2: I think you you'll get as close as you'll ever 995 00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,720 Speaker 2: get to solving this thing. Let's talk quickly, guys. We 996 00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,600 Speaker 2: didn't even mention on the night of the murders, and 997 00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,520 Speaker 2: like a couple of days before the murders, and even 998 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:28,160 Speaker 2: like the morning after, there were eyewitness accounts of somebody 999 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,600 Speaker 2: wearing this strange I call it a fisherman's hat. I 1000 00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:35,120 Speaker 2: don't know what hat it's like, yeah, but it's you know, 1001 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,880 Speaker 2: the material isn't very stiff. It's like a I don't 1002 00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:41,920 Speaker 2: know how to describe it. 1003 00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:48,440 Speaker 4: The top sometimes you can tuck things. I agree. 1004 00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,720 Speaker 2: My grandfather wore one all the time, so I always 1005 00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,800 Speaker 2: always think of it like that. And then the jacket. 1006 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,400 Speaker 2: There were I went this accounts of somebody matching that 1007 00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:00,280 Speaker 2: description all over the place, all over town, at a 1008 01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:05,520 Speaker 2: train station, at what else, getting into a cab. There 1009 01:00:05,600 --> 01:00:08,520 Speaker 2: was a cab, a taxi cab that left that early 1010 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,400 Speaker 2: early that morning. Three men got in, so it was 1011 01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,200 Speaker 2: a shared ride in a taxi cab and one of 1012 01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:16,680 Speaker 2: the three men was bleeding all over the taxi. They 1013 01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:19,640 Speaker 2: left a bunch of blood behind. Is it possible that 1014 01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,440 Speaker 2: that's a person that got into that cab. I think 1015 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:27,640 Speaker 2: it might be possible. There was one eyewitness account that 1016 01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:31,360 Speaker 2: said around eleven thirty pm on the night of the murders, 1017 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,520 Speaker 2: somebody was hurriedly, like rushing in the direction of the house, 1018 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:39,400 Speaker 2: not directly towards the house, right, because houses kind of isolated. 1019 01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 2: Maybe that's not what they actually saw or where this 1020 01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:45,520 Speaker 2: person was headed. But they matched that same description with 1021 01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:46,760 Speaker 2: the hat in the jacket. 1022 01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:53,600 Speaker 3: If the eyewitnesses are reliable, right from twenty three years ago, right, Yeah, 1023 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:55,560 Speaker 3: But I mean it's a good point. It also calls 1024 01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,320 Speaker 3: to mind again the Sherman murders, where we had to 1025 01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,520 Speaker 3: talk about eyewitness accounts of the guy walking some unknown 1026 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:07,360 Speaker 3: individual and then yeah, so the police were I mean 1027 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:09,760 Speaker 3: they did amazing things. Being able to trace down the 1028 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:15,480 Speaker 3: clothing is impressive. In the sand, yeah, and the sand 1029 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 3: there's some secrets there. There's like a sand repository. Now 1030 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:25,760 Speaker 3: we know there's not one, but multiple people who just know, 1031 01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:31,960 Speaker 3: like a cartoonishly disturbing amount about sand. I don't think 1032 01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,040 Speaker 3: it was until quite recently that we learned there are 1033 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,240 Speaker 3: different grades of sand, and there's good sand and then 1034 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:38,400 Speaker 3: there's the bad sand, and you can only build with 1035 01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:39,480 Speaker 3: certain types of sand. 1036 01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,640 Speaker 2: Guys, what do you think about a traveling a student 1037 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,920 Speaker 2: who was traveling maybe with their father or mother who 1038 01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,240 Speaker 2: was in the military and was studying going to the 1039 01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:53,680 Speaker 2: Cram school, Like maybe you came from the United States 1040 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,840 Speaker 2: from that exact area near Edward's Air Force Base, and 1041 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,480 Speaker 2: was a student and was angry for one reason or 1042 01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,680 Speaker 2: another and did this. 1043 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:07,720 Speaker 4: And not just I mean, yes, that's where that's I 1044 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,560 Speaker 4: think where it's easy to have your mind go in 1045 01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,480 Speaker 4: that direction. But I think this is this is a 1046 01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:18,760 Speaker 4: severely disturbed and demented individual that could have been set 1047 01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,440 Speaker 4: off by any number of perceived slights, perhaps you know, 1048 01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:25,680 Speaker 4: or being feeling as though they were on some sort 1049 01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:30,080 Speaker 4: of outsider The idea of revenge, I mean, revenge is complicated. 1050 01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,000 Speaker 4: You know, It's like, is it enough just to kill somebody? 1051 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:33,960 Speaker 4: Do you want it to do? You want to make 1052 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:35,880 Speaker 4: them suffer? All of that stuff. But this, to me, 1053 01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:41,240 Speaker 4: and the behavior indicates just an incredibly deranged individual, and 1054 01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:42,960 Speaker 4: that it would have been, you know, the kind of 1055 01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:47,040 Speaker 4: thing that maybe even they just did for fun. One. 1056 01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:51,960 Speaker 3: It does not seem to be a professional operation, right, 1057 01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,920 Speaker 3: just based on some of the just the lack of 1058 01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,680 Speaker 3: operational hygiene. Right, It's a very cold thing to call it, 1059 01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:04,040 Speaker 3: but you get the gist to I think, because of 1060 01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,160 Speaker 3: the lack of really compelling evidence, it's easy for us 1061 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,480 Speaker 3: to put kind of tropes on this thing, the trope 1062 01:03:11,560 --> 01:03:16,880 Speaker 3: of the like the scorned disassociated kid or the you know, 1063 01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,920 Speaker 3: almost like a Columbine kind of thing that's very familiar 1064 01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:25,880 Speaker 3: to us here in the US because mass shootings continue 1065 01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:30,160 Speaker 3: and it's a very familiar concept, and it's quite possible. 1066 01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,960 Speaker 3: The damning thing is, we just don't have enough detail there. 1067 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,920 Speaker 3: If it's someone traveling from abroad, which I also do 1068 01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:43,600 Speaker 3: feel is there's a strong likelihood of that, then if 1069 01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,680 Speaker 3: they are associated with the military, just again, why is 1070 01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,560 Speaker 3: that DNA not sent out, as you said, Matt, everywhere, 1071 01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,680 Speaker 3: especially to US military. I mean, is there something they 1072 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:55,000 Speaker 3: want to stay away from because of the crimes committed 1073 01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,720 Speaker 3: by US nationals in Okinawa and in other areas. 1074 01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:00,520 Speaker 4: It's a very sensitive supp I. 1075 01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,840 Speaker 2: Think that's exactly what it is. Perhaps, Yeah, especially in 1076 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,200 Speaker 2: the moment when this occurred and they're like, well, there 1077 01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,000 Speaker 2: does seem to be some there's evidence that does seem 1078 01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:13,640 Speaker 2: to tie this person potentially to the United States. Well, okay, great, 1079 01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:15,960 Speaker 2: what is that evidence? Sand that was in one of 1080 01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,080 Speaker 2: the things. Yeah, get out of here. You can't you 1081 01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,520 Speaker 2: can't have access to any of our records, you know. 1082 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,000 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. Maybe that's what it feels 1083 01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:24,320 Speaker 2: like to me. 1084 01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,520 Speaker 3: And this is one of those cases where we cannot 1085 01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:31,000 Speaker 3: conclusively give an answer, but we hope very much that 1086 01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:34,040 Speaker 3: there is one. As we record today, there is a 1087 01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:40,240 Speaker 3: reward for twenty million yen, the largest reward in Japanese history. Matt, 1088 01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,920 Speaker 3: you pointed out that's north of one hundred and forty 1089 01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:49,360 Speaker 3: five thousand dollars US for credible information leading to the 1090 01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:54,120 Speaker 3: arrest of a suspect. If you have any information about this, 1091 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,480 Speaker 3: there is a number you can call specifically for this. 1092 01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,280 Speaker 3: Be aware that your country codes may differ depending on 1093 01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:03,280 Speaker 3: where you are in the world. That number is zero 1094 01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:09,000 Speaker 3: three three four eight two zero one one zero. Again, 1095 01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:13,800 Speaker 3: that's zero three three four eight two zero one one zero. 1096 01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,440 Speaker 4: Guys. One last thing for me before we close, At 1097 01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,960 Speaker 4: least as far as I'm concerned. Do you think that 1098 01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:25,520 Speaker 4: the lack of or rather the lack of motive, uh, 1099 01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,440 Speaker 4: and the difficulty that police are having given you know, 1100 01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:32,080 Speaker 4: the insane amount of evidence, implies that maybe this was 1101 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:33,560 Speaker 4: just a random act. 1102 01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:38,840 Speaker 3: It's also a possibility. It's it's also a possibility because. 1103 01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:42,520 Speaker 4: That makes it harder to connect if it's just somebody that. Yeah, 1104 01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,680 Speaker 4: but you know, there there are some things that indicate 1105 01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,840 Speaker 4: there was some premeditation or knowledge of the house, but 1106 01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,200 Speaker 4: that could have been gleaned pretty quickly, you know, maybe 1107 01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:53,920 Speaker 4: following the kid around at a park and then just say, oh, 1108 01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:55,800 Speaker 4: a kid lives right over there. You know, let's just 1109 01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:57,480 Speaker 4: see how this shakes out. 1110 01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,720 Speaker 2: But just remember, since the DNA was in any of 1111 01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:04,880 Speaker 2: the Japanese databases, this would be the first crime that 1112 01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,640 Speaker 2: the person committed. It was serious enough that he was 1113 01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:08,600 Speaker 2: caught for, right. 1114 01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:09,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. 1115 01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,600 Speaker 3: That's and aguess not lost on me. Yeah, not impossible. 1116 01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:15,439 Speaker 3: It's not an impossible situation. They're having things where people 1117 01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:17,680 Speaker 3: have stored up a lot of the evil inside themselves 1118 01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:20,840 Speaker 3: and they appear to have snapped overnight. In each of 1119 01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:25,280 Speaker 3: those cases, there's a long there's long build up once 1120 01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:27,320 Speaker 3: you know what to look for. If you'd like to 1121 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,440 Speaker 3: learn more about this case, I highly recommend checking out 1122 01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:33,960 Speaker 3: the limited series The Faceless Podcast. It's a seven part 1123 01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:39,640 Speaker 3: dive into the details, into deep into a lot of the theories. 1124 01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:44,240 Speaker 3: Full disclosure, this is not a podcast we're associated with creating. 1125 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,560 Speaker 3: It's just a good source if you want to learn 1126 01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:49,840 Speaker 3: more with that, Folks, we're gonna We're going to end 1127 01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:53,680 Speaker 3: it here and we want to know what you think. 1128 01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,200 Speaker 3: Is there a likelihood that this case may ever be solved? 1129 01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,560 Speaker 3: Why or why not? And tell us about your experiences 1130 01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,920 Speaker 3: with Japanese law enforcement. We'd like to hear them, and 1131 01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:07,520 Speaker 3: we aim to be easy to find online. 1132 01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,280 Speaker 4: We do. You can find us at the handle Conspiracy 1133 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:14,320 Speaker 4: Stuff on Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook. On Facebook, we also 1134 01:07:14,360 --> 01:07:16,840 Speaker 4: have our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy. You 1135 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,680 Speaker 4: can also find us under the handle Conspiracy Stuff Show 1136 01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:23,320 Speaker 4: on Instagram and TikTok if those are your things. 1137 01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,640 Speaker 2: A If you like using your phone, you can speak 1138 01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:32,240 Speaker 2: to us. Just dial one eight three three std WYTK. 1139 01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,640 Speaker 2: It's a voicemail system. You've got three minutes to leave 1140 01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:38,240 Speaker 2: a message. Please give yourself a cool nickname and let 1141 01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,360 Speaker 2: us know if we can use your voice and message 1142 01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:42,760 Speaker 2: on the air. 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