Speaker 1: Blind Down with Jane Kramer and Michael Coffin and I'm
Speaker 1: her radio podcast. You know what I think is funny
Speaker 1: where there's been a few times where we've woken up
Speaker 1: in the morning and whatever our dream was has really
Speaker 1: dictated how we felt about the other person. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: the other day I woke up and you broke up
Speaker 1: with me and you went back to your ex girlfriend,
Speaker 1: and I was just blindsided, and I just remember it
Speaker 1: feeling so real and just like, how could he just
Speaker 1: blindside me like this? And I told Mike, I was
Speaker 1: like and the worst part of it was, I was
Speaker 1: like I had no prospects. Like I just remember going
Speaker 1: through my phone being like, you didn't even give me
Speaker 1: a heads up. I didn't have heads up to even
Speaker 1: think about who a prospect could be. But I was
Speaker 1: just like nobody. That was the thing that she was
Speaker 1: the most upset about. She was like, Okay, fine, you
Speaker 1: left me for your ext but damn give her sister
Speaker 1: heads up so I could set some things in motion.
Speaker 1: And then you're like, you'd have prospects. I was like no,
Speaker 1: And I was like I started thinking about it. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know how we've always you know, like when you're
Speaker 1: in relationships. You're like, I could probably Texas person, but like,
Speaker 1: there was nobody in my dream, and there would be
Speaker 1: nobody now, but I'm just saying there was nobody and
Speaker 1: it was just I woke up just being like, oh
Speaker 1: I didn't like that, and then I was just like,
Speaker 1: how could you do that to me? And then this
Speaker 1: morning you woke up, yeah, where you slept with somebody
Speaker 1: that we know, and you're so unapologetic and unempathetic. You're
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, okay, whatever changed. I woke up. I
Speaker 1: was like, what the is your problem? I was like,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what's dick? I was like, what
Speaker 1: do you mean? I was like, good morning to you too.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, good morning, and I was like, what
Speaker 1: did I do wrong to you last night? Bad taste
Speaker 1: in my mouth about you? This morning? Well, but then
Speaker 1: you get ever it. I just think it's funny. No,
Speaker 1: it is fun me because we didn't actually I didn't
Speaker 1: actually cheat on you and you didn't actually leave me
Speaker 1: for your ex. But the first thing you wake up,
Speaker 1: you kind of give that personal look, like vivid dreams
Speaker 1: that you have. Dreams are interesting, dreams are so interesting.
Speaker 1: But I also think dreams, which I'd love to get
Speaker 1: a dream expert on because I'm so fascinated by dreams
Speaker 1: and what it means. And you know why I was
Speaker 1: you know, why did you dream about me having an
Speaker 1: affair with someone? I think we talked to somebody early
Speaker 1: on in the show from us doing this show, someone
Speaker 1: talked about dreams and they were describing it more as
Speaker 1: like metaphork, where it's just like if you dream about
Speaker 1: a polar bearer, that means you're sad or something like that,
Speaker 1: and I just I want more more than that. I
Speaker 1: want more than just like the metaphor around it. Well,
Speaker 1: they say that whatever you're thinking about before you go
Speaker 1: to bed, that could also be what's in your dream.
Speaker 1: So were you thinking that I was having an affair?
Speaker 1: See I completely personally, I completely disagree with that in
Speaker 1: my in my experience, yeah, where it's like things that
Speaker 1: I'll think about it before bed, I very seldom dream about. Well,
Speaker 1: we had this dream book growing up and it was
Speaker 1: a gift I think that my uncle Ray gave to
Speaker 1: my mom and it was all about dreams. And it's
Speaker 1: crazy because you would look in this dream book and
Speaker 1: even to this day, I think my mom still has it,
Speaker 1: but it's like torn to shreds and pieces missing, because
Speaker 1: it's just this book is like this ancient witch book, right,
Speaker 1: and if you were to dream about like a shark,
Speaker 1: you go in there and you look at this dream
Speaker 1: book and it's like, oh, yeah, I am kind of
Speaker 1: stressed out about money right now or whatever, like the
Speaker 1: shark represents you know, or you feel like trapped or
Speaker 1: you feel interesting, I know. And so then you start
Speaker 1: to introspectively look at it and you're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: kind of. But then it's like there's that also shape
Speaker 1: your like steer you in a direction on your thought
Speaker 1: process maybe or maybe it's something good, like something's coming.
Speaker 1: But then Mike has like a you know, one of
Speaker 1: your video game games, or like an alien dream, which
Speaker 1: if I could take my dreams and the next day
Speaker 1: be able to jot down everything in detail as vivid
Speaker 1: as it wasn't my dream, I would be the next
Speaker 1: Michael Bay. Like my dreams would be uh them as
Speaker 1: movies would be amazing. I feel like you and Eastern
Speaker 1: would have like the most like Marvel packed word dreams. Easton,
Speaker 1: do you agree with this if our dreams could become movies,
Speaker 1: I don't know that. Like I almost feel like Eastern's
Speaker 1: like dreams are not what we think they're Eastern. My
Speaker 1: dreams are not exciting at all. They're they're not like
Speaker 1: it's like I have to like build a go cart
Speaker 1: with my ex landlord. Like that's like the dream very disappointing.
Speaker 1: That mean storry to let you down, to Mike, but
Speaker 1: that is disappointing, you know. It's anxiety that nfs in
Speaker 1: really disappointing ways. Like my wife has like crazy dreams
Speaker 1: where she's like being chased by a serial killer or
Speaker 1: like something so insane. And then mine are like always
Speaker 1: like I had a dream that I left my keys
Speaker 1: at home and I had to go get them and
Speaker 1: I was waiting for work, and it's like I had
Speaker 1: come on these dreams. You're like, come on, You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm the coolest, I have the greatest ideas, Like give
Speaker 1: me some Marvel, But no, I have to reoccurring dreams,
Speaker 1: like the one is that I don't I didn't graduate
Speaker 1: high school. That's one reoccurring dream. And I always wake
Speaker 1: up feeling just like a failure. And but it's like
Speaker 1: a constant thing where I'm like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to graduate. I'm not going to graduate like crap.
Speaker 1: So that's one, and then the second one is whenever
Speaker 1: I'm sick. And I've had this since I was like
Speaker 1: Jolie's age. I can remember whenever I'm sick, I have
Speaker 1: I have like a dream of like a trailer or
Speaker 1: like one of those tractors like crushing me terrif. I know,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is this is a different thing,
Speaker 1: but it's it's along the thought of dreams, but it's
Speaker 1: more of like a day dream where I'll almost like
Speaker 1: relive a situation but the opposite outcome occurred. We're like, man,
Speaker 1: say I had a really good football game, right, and
Speaker 1: I'm like reflecting back on it, I'm like, oh, what
Speaker 1: if I had dropped that pass? What if I had
Speaker 1: done this? And it's like I'll take my back myself
Speaker 1: back through the memory with the opposite outcome, and then
Speaker 1: I'll like start feeling like the guilt or shamer on him.
Speaker 1: I don't have sucked, but like, no, no, it didn't happen.
Speaker 1: Didn't happen. Yeah, do you ever do that? Cool? Just me?
Speaker 1: I do that all the time, Mike, I start, yeah,
Speaker 1: I do, like I had a really bad relationship like
Speaker 1: ten years ago that like really messed me up, and
Speaker 1: I always think about, like I could, like what if
Speaker 1: I had gotten her pregnant or like gotten married to her,
Speaker 1: Like I was thinking about that and how different my
Speaker 1: life would be now, because like I was just making
Speaker 1: some horrible decisions when I was with this person, and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think about that all the time,
Speaker 1: and then then I feel like, oh, I'm glad I
Speaker 1: didn't do all that stuff, Like I'm right because I'm
Speaker 1: happy with the decisions I did make. It's like when
Speaker 1: you press on a tooth that kind of hurts, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's like a controlled kind of pain because I
Speaker 1: don't know if that makes sense, No, that makes sense,
Speaker 1: but that's what it feels like. M Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I could, if I could, if
Speaker 1: I do that, like that would just I feel like
Speaker 1: that cosm anxiety, like the what IF's and that's like,
Speaker 1: all right, I went through that. That sucks or that stunk,
Speaker 1: you know, But if not or if I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: done this, and I would, it's like I I mean, yeah, definitely,
Speaker 1: it definitely opens up a rabbit hole that you can
Speaker 1: start going down. It's but yet it is what if
Speaker 1: trained And for me it's primarily been sport. It's related,
Speaker 1: but there's also been times where, like you Easton, where
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, man, what if what if I never
Speaker 1: met Janna? You know what I mean? Like, I can't
Speaker 1: imagine what my life would be like. It wouldn't be
Speaker 1: nearly what it is. And what if this didn't happen?
Speaker 1: What if that didn't happen. It's just, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: So that's what those are. It's so interesting that those
Speaker 1: are the because I don't I don't know if. I
Speaker 1: wonder if women, Becky, do you do that? Because I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I do the well what if I
Speaker 1: didn't make Mike? Where would I be? It's almost just
Speaker 1: I don't know, um no, because that would cause me anxiety.
Speaker 1: I would have an actual panic attack. The what if
Speaker 1: mindset would like be paralyzing for me. Yeah, go down
Speaker 1: that path, which is so interesting. I wonder if it's
Speaker 1: like like mostly guys do that, then that is interesting
Speaker 1: I think for me. I think we should have a
Speaker 1: dream expert, I think and they could probably touch on
Speaker 1: this topic because it is kind of a similar relation
Speaker 1: between dreams and like this what if thought process, and
Speaker 1: I think for me at least personally, it's my way
Speaker 1: of reflecting and being able to be, you know, express
Speaker 1: gratitude for the moment to be like Okay, it's like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take myself down this bad path of where
Speaker 1: things could be, but then it brings me back to
Speaker 1: where I'm am today and be like, man, thank god
Speaker 1: I am where I am today, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like it's yeah, yeah, I mean I'm starting thinking like, well,
Speaker 1: what if I didn't where I go. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: what if I didn't meet my crazy X in the
Speaker 1: baby beginning? And then what if I didn't meet you? Well,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, then I wouldn't have Jolian Jason.
Speaker 1: Then I started to get Then I start to get
Speaker 1: anxiety because I'm like no, no, no no, no, Like I
Speaker 1: can't imagine like how how would there not be a
Speaker 1: world without them? So it's like I just go like
Speaker 1: kind of Becky's saying, like straight to just like anxiety.
Speaker 1: I don't like that what if? Now? That what if
Speaker 1: that I do do is like when I'm on an airplane,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, what if I die? That's
Speaker 1: the what if game I play all the time, which
Speaker 1: is like so bad. Like, so there we go, that's
Speaker 1: what women do. Then the women are doing like what
Speaker 1: if I die? Like I'm I'm always like, am I
Speaker 1: gonna die? I'm not gonna die? Well what if I
Speaker 1: do die? Like because I'm like, oh God, like my kids,
Speaker 1: like you know, they're young. I hope they remember me.
Speaker 1: Like I'm already writing letters like if I die, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like it's bad. So that's that's what women do.
Speaker 1: We go a little bit more morbid, and you go like,
Speaker 1: you know, what if I didn't meet this, you know,
Speaker 1: Chick fil a drive through, it wouldn't hit the girl
Speaker 1: in front of me. By the way, Michael is banned
Speaker 1: from drive through is because not only did he scrape
Speaker 1: his car and then McDonald's drive through and he then
Speaker 1: just hit someone at a Chick fil a drive through.
Speaker 1: I was like, you are a banned from eating bad food.
Speaker 1: Even the chick Fila is good. But anyways, I don't
Speaker 1: have a good track record with Blood Sugar. What's going on? Well,
Speaker 1: the most recent one I blame on Jolie, but it's okay.
Speaker 1: How do you blame our daughter. She was asking me
Speaker 1: for something. I turned around the helper and what your
Speaker 1: foot just goes on thing? And my foot like slipped
Speaker 1: because I was like pushing on the break till you
Speaker 1: reached back towards her in my foot slip and went
Speaker 1: forward and loved tap this car in front of me. No, no,
Speaker 1: he didn't love tap. And here's the funny thing. He's like,
Speaker 1: this is this is a very funny story because there's
Speaker 1: actually a comedy skit by Sebastian Maniscalco and he talks
Speaker 1: about basically the love tap the scratch, and you know,
Speaker 1: his wife's like, it's not it's just just a little scrape.
Speaker 1: And he's like, I'm really curious to see what my
Speaker 1: wife thinks is a little scrape. And he goes out
Speaker 1: there and he's like like you know, and he's like
Speaker 1: trying to hold back his Italian anger, and he's like
Speaker 1: the entire he's like the entire like door has to
Speaker 1: be replaced, Like it's not just a little like you
Speaker 1: can't buff it out. So Mike's like saying, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be like maybe like a hundred dollars, like
Speaker 1: just a little like a little scrape. You could like
Speaker 1: use a pen to wipe it out. So I look
Speaker 1: at his phone this morning or when he woke up
Speaker 1: and I was like, hey, you got a text message.
Speaker 1: It says maybe Jennifer. I was like, who's maybe Jennifer?
Speaker 1: And he's like, oh, that's the lady that I hit.
Speaker 1: So I was like, oh, I want to see the pictures.
Speaker 1: And so I opened it up. I was like, Babe,
Speaker 1: that's not a scratch. I was like, that's like her
Speaker 1: whole back bumper was a scratch across the whole back bumper.
Speaker 1: Oh God. Okay, anyways, we're let's take a break, but
Speaker 1: then we have a really really really awesome guest um
Speaker 1: two guests coming on, Nate and Kaylee Clemp. So let's
Speaker 1: take a break and then we'll bring them on. We're
Speaker 1: going to be wearing masks for a while. It's important
Speaker 1: to have the right mask protect yourself and others. The
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Speaker 1: to your current mask. There are fakes and counterfeit versions,
Speaker 1: so you want to be sure you have the approved version.
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Speaker 1: are now available to the public. Go to secure components
Speaker 1: dot com to order masks for you, your friends and family,
Speaker 1: or your business Secure components dot Com. I'm super excited
Speaker 1: to have these next two guests on our show to
Speaker 1: husband and wife Nate and Kaylee clemp Um, and I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna let them kind of give their elevator pitch
Speaker 1: of themselves because they're both extremely accomplished human beings and
Speaker 1: professionals in their world. So let's have them on. And
Speaker 1: I will say they have a book out right now
Speaker 1: called The Eight Marriage, a New Model for a Happier,
Speaker 1: Stronger Relationship on Amazon. So excited to dive in on
Speaker 1: that as well. So here they come. Hello, Hello, Thank
Speaker 1: you guys so much for coming on Wine Down. We
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Obviously our podcast is very relationship focused.
Speaker 1: So um, when I you know, started to just like
Speaker 1: read the breakdown everything, I was like, oh my goodness, like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm ordering your book right now, and be like I'm
Speaker 1: just super excited to dive in. So yeah, So we
Speaker 1: gave our our listeners a little bit of intro on
Speaker 1: you guys, but you know, you guys are such accomplished
Speaker 1: people in your own right. So I want you guys
Speaker 1: to kind of give us the elevator pitch of yourselves
Speaker 1: to our list and marriage because you can say it
Speaker 1: better than any of us can. Well, my name is
Speaker 1: Nate Clemp. I'm a founding partner at Mindful, co author
Speaker 1: of the AD eighty marriage with Kaylee. I was a
Speaker 1: former philosophy professor till I decided to get out of
Speaker 1: the activity I could gave me a business and become
Speaker 1: a writer on mindfulness and marriage. And I'm Kayley Clemp.
Speaker 1: So co authored a eight marriage here with Nate. And
Speaker 1: I'm also a leadership executive coach and worked with executive
Speaker 1: teams and individuals looking at personality and all the tools
Speaker 1: of conscious leadership. You know, it's it's so cool. Sorry, honey,
Speaker 1: I was just gonna know. You go ahead, Oh, you
Speaker 1: go ahead. We see we're such We're such a happy marriage.
Speaker 1: Radical generosity is everywhere right now, right Um, I'll go ahead, honey.
Speaker 1: And what I was gonna say when I was reading
Speaker 1: the breakdown, you know, I love the combination of both
Speaker 1: of you because you know, with your background Nate in
Speaker 1: the in the mindfulness is such a big thing nowadays,
Speaker 1: especially with mental health and just meditation, those kind of
Speaker 1: practices really getting some momentum. And then Kayley, with everything
Speaker 1: that you do and kind of helping you know, the
Speaker 1: executive leadership and and the angiogram stuff that you're a
Speaker 1: specialist in that I read about is just so fascinating
Speaker 1: because it's like, you guys are like the perfect blend
Speaker 1: of like what you want someone to like read a
Speaker 1: book from, like literally, so it's exciting to talk to
Speaker 1: you guys about that and that you have a book
Speaker 1: around that. So because of that, are you guys, I mean,
Speaker 1: please tell us that you guys still have arguments and
Speaker 1: you still fight. Yeah, for sure, definitely. And uh, well
Speaker 1: especially because this week actually today is launch day for
Speaker 1: this book. So we have been just like in this
Speaker 1: insane you know, you guys have a look you know
Speaker 1: what it's like that pre launch period. And simultaneously our
Speaker 1: daughter broke her risk. There was like a woodpecker outside
Speaker 1: of our house trilli into our wall the middle night. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so so we've had this like perfect storm which is
Speaker 1: led to just you know, some healthy arguments exactly all
Speaker 1: the same, like, oh that's what happening is that really
Speaker 1: your truth right now, because I see it different way.
Speaker 1: How do you guys handle a conflict when you get
Speaker 1: in those situations. So one of the things that we
Speaker 1: wrote about in the book that we definitely advocate for
Speaker 1: and also practice is called reveal and request, And basically
Speaker 1: the whole idea behind it is reveal your inner experience,
Speaker 1: this is what's going on for me, and then to
Speaker 1: make a request of your partner. And when we're in
Speaker 1: those conflict moments, I think it's really an opportunity just
Speaker 1: to be known because a lot of times I'm actually
Speaker 1: surprised that when I say something where I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: this is what's going on for me, and I would
Speaker 1: love it if you did this instead, a lot of
Speaker 1: times says surprises like oh my gosh, I have no idea,
Speaker 1: I'm really sorry, and it's it's so fast. Why yeah,
Speaker 1: and so's a great question. Yeah. Well, so I think
Speaker 1: it starts with the precursor to a d which is
Speaker 1: what we think of this fifty marriage fairness. It's this
Speaker 1: idea that we're all really familiar, you're with that you
Speaker 1: know the way to a perfect marriage in this modern
Speaker 1: age where we're both equals and we want to be
Speaker 1: in love is to just make everything perfectly fair. And
Speaker 1: we tried this, man, did we try this for like
Speaker 1: a good decade, just like trying to make everything fair,
Speaker 1: trying to keep score. And it was like a total disaster.
Speaker 1: I mean it almost ended our marriage, you know, it
Speaker 1: was It was actually very painful. We can joke about it,
Speaker 1: but like the fights and the conflict and the feeling
Speaker 1: of resentment, and so, you know, when we interviewed couples
Speaker 1: for this book, we found that this really isn't working
Speaker 1: for anybody, and that there are a couple of reasons
Speaker 1: for that. One. You know, when you're trying to keep
Speaker 1: score all the time, it's the perfect setup for all
Speaker 1: sorts of resentment. Um. But also we ran into all
Speaker 1: this interesting research and psychology while writing this book, showing
Speaker 1: that we consistently overestimate our own contributions to the marriage
Speaker 1: and underestimate those of our partners. So basically, there are
Speaker 1: all these cognitive biases at work, making it almost impossible
Speaker 1: to decide what is or isn't fair. So so I'd
Speaker 1: say that's really the starting point, is that we're working
Speaker 1: against that background. So I mean from there, where we
Speaker 1: go A d eight is basically saying if you're striving
Speaker 1: to contribute more than your fair share. The reason that
Speaker 1: that works better is because it gets contagious. So when
Speaker 1: both people are really trying to do more than just half,
Speaker 1: then you get a spirit of generosity, of contribution, of appreciation.
Speaker 1: But it's interesting we stopped at a D eighty. We
Speaker 1: didn't say, like, go a hundred a hundred because we
Speaker 1: also also think it's really important for each person to
Speaker 1: have their own purpose and some of their own things
Speaker 1: that are specific to them. And so there's a way
Speaker 1: that you go all out a D eight, try to
Speaker 1: overshoe the name with your partner, but you have to
Speaker 1: keep your own purpose. I love that because when you
Speaker 1: guys are talking about it, I think of you know,
Speaker 1: I feel like you know people today or maybe they
Speaker 1: will call it a generational thing if they want to
Speaker 1: say millennials or whatever, where people have a more of
Speaker 1: a tendency to say, well, that's not my job. Why
Speaker 1: am I going to do that? Right? And it's like
Speaker 1: because I asked you to or because it needs to
Speaker 1: get done, you know. And it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where I think Janna and I've fallen into a healthy
Speaker 1: version of that where it's like, yeah, we have the
Speaker 1: things kind of like you're saying, Kayley, that we primarily
Speaker 1: do ourselves, but then there's things that overlap. So we've
Speaker 1: been maybe living some of the eight eighty without even knowing.
Speaker 1: I bet you have. And it's it's interesting actually, because
Speaker 1: I think what you're describing is when you actually get
Speaker 1: clear on some of those roles, it frees up a
Speaker 1: lot of energy. So when you know, hey, these are
Speaker 1: the things that I do and these are the things
Speaker 1: that Jannah does, it actually it relieves a lot of
Speaker 1: tension where you don't have to fight about each and
Speaker 1: every chore or each and everything that you go, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I take those. You take those, and there are a
Speaker 1: couple where we want to have a conversation. I totally
Speaker 1: agree with you. And for me, that's where resentment goes away,
Speaker 1: because when when when it's just like I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I have to do this too, and I have to
Speaker 1: do this too, and I'm like, oh what is he doing?
Speaker 1: And it's like resentment just build so much that then
Speaker 1: I start screaming at him about a lamp shade. There's
Speaker 1: nothing to do about the lamp shade has everything to
Speaker 1: do about this list of resentment that's been building. So yeah,
Speaker 1: once we started doing the roles and be like, okay,
Speaker 1: you know this is what the roles are, this is
Speaker 1: what it looks like. Are we happy? Cool? And it's
Speaker 1: been really good. I feel like we've had less conflict
Speaker 1: because we've we've taken those on and then we're not
Speaker 1: building resentment because I feel like resentment is so deadly,
Speaker 1: especially for you, for both of us, because I brew
Speaker 1: anger and I feel like resentment is pretty bad. And
Speaker 1: with addiction as well, right, Oh for sure. I mean
Speaker 1: that's that's a catalyst for a lot of acting out behavior,
Speaker 1: no matter what your addiction is. And Keylee, where does
Speaker 1: the India Graham stack up in all of this? Like,
Speaker 1: how is that benefited y'aw's relationship because I know that's
Speaker 1: something that's also starting to take off because I just
Speaker 1: to it probably just a couple of years ago on
Speaker 1: an episode of our podcast when we had someone on,
Speaker 1: So I know there's it's it's newer out there. So
Speaker 1: how does that help you guys in your marriage? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So the angiogram is my favorite of all the personality
Speaker 1: models and a sudden all of them who've got like
Speaker 1: Myer Springs in the Disk and the Workman. Is that
Speaker 1: your favorite? It's my favorite because it's about why, why
Speaker 1: are you doing what you're doing? So not only do
Speaker 1: you get really predictable behavioral studies and really really clear
Speaker 1: understanding of what people are most likely to do, especially
Speaker 1: when they're stressed, but it's about why. And that frees
Speaker 1: up a lot of empathy because when somebody's doing something,
Speaker 1: you're like, are you serious right now? That that's your strategy.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more generosity of spirit if you know
Speaker 1: this is what they're striving to do. So, for example,
Speaker 1: if somebody feels like they're being really controlling or really
Speaker 1: overbearing or super overly intense, but you know that they're
Speaker 1: in aid a challenger, you can in some ways reentert
Speaker 1: that with some empathy. We're like, Okay, they're striving to
Speaker 1: be strong, they're striving to make sure they have enough
Speaker 1: free sources. How can I bring some mature boundaries and
Speaker 1: some compassion and also my own limits to the conversation,
Speaker 1: knowing that that's an effective way to have some respect.
Speaker 1: So what are you guys? What are y'alls? And your
Speaker 1: gram number? Yes, so my home basis one. So that's
Speaker 1: the reformer. So I'm a nine, which is the peacemaker.
Speaker 1: It's the best type to be. Marriage are pretty mellow. Yeah, exactly, sorry,
Speaker 1: honey on one below that, So I'm the challenger, the challenger. Yes,
Speaker 1: she's a two. It's so interesting. That's a really common
Speaker 1: pairing that we'll see aids paired with nine s pret
Speaker 1: of it and eights and twos. And you actually, I
Speaker 1: don't know how well you know the on your groom,
Speaker 1: but you run the line between eight and two, which
Speaker 1: is the service access. So what what is something to
Speaker 1: look out for in our marriage with being a two
Speaker 1: and an eight. That's that's a great question. So one
Speaker 1: of the things to watch out for is that eights
Speaker 1: are typically pretty clear with their requests, um, and so
Speaker 1: they'll kind of come at you and as a too,
Speaker 1: if you're not mindful, your tendency will be to give
Speaker 1: more to someone else than to advocate for yourself, and
Speaker 1: so it can start to create a spiral where you're
Speaker 1: over giving over contributing, and that I think you named
Speaker 1: it Jane a little bit earlier. It comes to sort
Speaker 1: of this dark underbelly of resentment, and so watching out
Speaker 1: for how you kind of hook each other in that way.
Speaker 1: I mean to a T. I mean you just you
Speaker 1: spelled it all out there. That is spun on. If
Speaker 1: I know your indiogram type, it might also be psychic. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because I mean that's exactly what happens. Janna will get
Speaker 1: resentful because she'll see me taking time for myself. I
Speaker 1: have more hobbies than you can probably even list, and
Speaker 1: it drives your nuts, but I'll take that time. I
Speaker 1: know how important that time is for myself to kind
Speaker 1: of ground myself her. I have to force her to
Speaker 1: do own thing, you know, because she just won't stop,
Speaker 1: just constantly be doing something, whether it's for the family
Speaker 1: or for work, or for this or for that. I'm like,
Speaker 1: just take a second, do something for you. But then
Speaker 1: I get resentful when he's doing something for himself because
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, I would love to do something for
Speaker 1: myself right now, but you're choosing to do something else. Well,
Speaker 1: And it's so funny, right because the list of people
Speaker 1: who you could help seems to be endless, and so
Speaker 1: there's a like, I'll take time for myself just as
Speaker 1: soon as everybody he needs help has been helped. We'll
Speaker 1: shoot that list is just never ending. No, it's not.
Speaker 1: And Nate, what about you with the mindfulness, with your
Speaker 1: kind of history and that, how has that benefited y'all's relationship,
Speaker 1: you personally and for couples that are listening to this, Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely well. I would say, you know, one of the
Speaker 1: most challenging parts of our marriage was about twelve years ago.
Speaker 1: I was finishing grad school. I had a serious bike accident,
Speaker 1: and um, I did not know how to deal with
Speaker 1: significant stress and significant challenge. So I kind of just
Speaker 1: collapsed under the weight of that all and I got,
Speaker 1: you know, very anxious and depressed. And we call those
Speaker 1: the dark years, and it was really it was a
Speaker 1: very intense time. And I knew that for me to
Speaker 1: get back into this marriage and into my life, really
Speaker 1: I had to figure out how to manage my own mind,
Speaker 1: which you know, here I was grad student getting a
Speaker 1: PhD at Princeton. You'd think that they would teach you that,
Speaker 1: but not at all, Right, Like, that was the one
Speaker 1: skill I had never learned. So so that sent me
Speaker 1: on this journey of really starting to understand, like, what
Speaker 1: are the practices and technologies we can use to essentially
Speaker 1: train the mind? Um, and it's been you know, twelve
Speaker 1: or so years, and I've just slowly seen how I've
Speaker 1: been able to get back into full engagement in my
Speaker 1: marriage and my life and just sort of reclaim a
Speaker 1: little bit of control around my my emotions, mental states, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And I would say it benefits me and our marriage
Speaker 1: in that Nate has more space. So when something happens,
Speaker 1: right you were asking us a little bit ago about conflict,
Speaker 1: there's this space where he's just not nearly as reactive.
Speaker 1: He can sort of take that deep breath, bring some
Speaker 1: peace to it, and that helps us engage with each
Speaker 1: other so much more thoughtfully. How does he do that?
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it, I am. I will
Speaker 1: say because of my practice, right, it was the mindfulness
Speaker 1: because that that definitely helps because um, he's um really
Speaker 1: he was was. I still have tendencies, yes, but to
Speaker 1: have that like really initial outward reaction and it's like me,
Speaker 1: I'm like, whoa like please have a conversation, like I
Speaker 1: just want to talk about this. Um. Yeah. So I
Speaker 1: can definitely vouch for that that I've had the same
Speaker 1: experience Nate. We're just taken, you know, which I've gotten
Speaker 1: away from the last probably month. But taking that time
Speaker 1: in the morning and doing some meditation as I'm reading
Speaker 1: has allowed me to have that space that you're talking about, Kaylee,
Speaker 1: to not react immediately and just be like, Okay, wait
Speaker 1: a second, let me process this just for a second.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how just that one second can change the
Speaker 1: whole narrative of that conflict. How long again? How many
Speaker 1: years have you guys been married? For? Twelve days ago,
Speaker 1: days ago? That's awesome, was there? I mean, obviously there
Speaker 1: were some dark times in your marriage, but what's one
Speaker 1: thing that you've like, you still even after fifteen years,
Speaker 1: you have to be mindful of to, you know, to
Speaker 1: kind of look in the mirror and be like, I
Speaker 1: still have to work on this piece about this piece
Speaker 1: of me. Yeah, it's such a great question for me.
Speaker 1: It's actually kind of central to the topic of the book,
Speaker 1: which is my mindset of fairness. That I really easily
Speaker 1: fall into a thought process of I'm doing more, I'm
Speaker 1: trying harder, that's not fair, and so I have to
Speaker 1: just consistently we're mind myself, I'm not seeing everything that
Speaker 1: he's doing, right, Like I'm intimately familiar with every dishwashed
Speaker 1: and every trash can emptyed. But to remind myself, like,
Speaker 1: how long did it take to practice those spelling words
Speaker 1: with our daughter? And as I do that and really
Speaker 1: intentionally shift to more of a framework of generosity and appreciation,
Speaker 1: it helps me kind of curb that tendency. But I
Speaker 1: watch it, it's a yeah, it's like a score keeping.
Speaker 1: He says that to me a lot, like I'm keeping score,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, no, it's in my mind. I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: it's not about keeping score. But hearing that, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of like keeping score. Yeah, it's kind
Speaker 1: of like keeping score. And it's funny. In my tally,
Speaker 1: I always seem to be ahead. I would actually just
Speaker 1: add to that, there's the score keeping piece, but there
Speaker 1: for me, there's also something about like shifting from my
Speaker 1: mindset being about me and my success being about us
Speaker 1: and what's best for us together. You know, I think
Speaker 1: we met in high school. We were sort of like
Speaker 1: type A, you know, really good students. We went out
Speaker 1: in the world trying to make our mark as individuals,
Speaker 1: and that mindset of kind of individual exceptionalism has been
Speaker 1: very hard to unlearn, you know, it's still there, Like
Speaker 1: I we still fall into it. You know, this is
Speaker 1: my thing and I need to I need to be
Speaker 1: amazing at it, and I need time to do it.
Speaker 1: And so a big shift for us has been just
Speaker 1: trying to go back to what's best for us, like
Speaker 1: as a couple, and and how are my contributions part
Speaker 1: of this thing that's really great for us, not just
Speaker 1: what's best for me. You know that's so fascinating because
Speaker 1: I feel like that's such a simple concept, right, but
Speaker 1: so difficult for every relationship to kind of grasp hold
Speaker 1: of until you're For a lot of people it's too late, right,
Speaker 1: and they just decide, hey, this is gonna work out,
Speaker 1: and they think it's gonna be different with somebody else,
Speaker 1: and it's not because I know for us, I mean again,
Speaker 1: I mean Nate, I'm mirror that experience where my former
Speaker 1: career was all about me and it's all about what
Speaker 1: I had to do and perform on the field and
Speaker 1: take care of me. And then I meet Janna and
Speaker 1: then I retire and it becomes all about her, and
Speaker 1: then it's like, how do I have that mindset to
Speaker 1: go from me me, me, me me and my own
Speaker 1: success too, you know, supportive or we now and and
Speaker 1: make it about the greater good and make it about
Speaker 1: each other. But when you're not used to doing that,
Speaker 1: which I feel like no matter your profession, as we're
Speaker 1: young adults, you're just focused on your career, right being,
Speaker 1: being successful in achieving your goals. So I mean, if
Speaker 1: that's something that you can get they can get out
Speaker 1: of the marriage book, then that's I mean, that's no
Speaker 1: brainer to read that. Yeah, did you guys struggle writing
Speaker 1: the book together? How would you answer that? I would
Speaker 1: say I would say that roles in the book writing
Speaker 1: process were pretty clear and so that made it easier.
Speaker 1: But I will say the end of the book was crazy.
Speaker 1: So we turned in sort of our final draft and
Speaker 1: then we got back our visions, which I think it's
Speaker 1: fair to say we're substantial from the editor. Right at
Speaker 1: the end of March as it was you know, crazy quarantine.
Speaker 1: You know, our daughter was down home from school. This
Speaker 1: is when we were still trying to like sanitize the
Speaker 1: outside of the salad box, and that part was extremely stressful.
Speaker 1: So I think sort of the struggle as you added
Speaker 1: extra responsibilities. It wasn't it certainly wasn't a walk in
Speaker 1: the park, but it was helpful to at least have
Speaker 1: a sense of what we were reaching that we had
Speaker 1: such clear roles that it almost mitigated most of the
Speaker 1: conflict we would have had, which is actually, in some
Speaker 1: ways a gift that came from having written co authored
Speaker 1: books before, because if we learned some of those lessons
Speaker 1: along the way to make sure that we were really clear.
Speaker 1: What do you do when you guys are in conflict
Speaker 1: and you have to have these interviews and it's like
Speaker 1: right now I don't like you and we're fighting or
Speaker 1: in how like sometimes I'm like, are we frauds? Because
Speaker 1: look at we're we're a mess and we're fighting. But
Speaker 1: yet in our book we preach about this and we're
Speaker 1: not even doing it like we have like we don't
Speaker 1: We're not doing it right now, you know, in this moment,
Speaker 1: And it's like, do you guys ever have that where
Speaker 1: you're just in such conflict that you you're just like,
Speaker 1: this is this is hard? And why aren't we listening
Speaker 1: to what we've written on the pages? Yeah? Absolutely, I
Speaker 1: mean I think that for us, this whole thing feels
Speaker 1: like a process of you have a certain ideal. In
Speaker 1: our case, it's this E eight marriage ideal that we're
Speaker 1: trying to strive for and we're constantly falling short of it.
Speaker 1: And really the key is like, can we quickly become
Speaker 1: aware of the fact that we're getting caught and then
Speaker 1: shift And so, like just three hours ago, we had
Speaker 1: a conflict. It was about you know, all these like
Speaker 1: COVID safety protocols. You know, Kaylee had a friend over
Speaker 1: helping her with some makeup stuff. We have a launch
Speaker 1: party tonight, and I was like, you know, that wasn't
Speaker 1: our agreement about some of these safety protocols. And I
Speaker 1: was kind of piste off because I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: you said you couldn't do this, that and the other thing,
Speaker 1: but you're doing this thing with your friends, but can
Speaker 1: you really put on makeup without, you know, with a
Speaker 1: mask on? I mean so so yeah, So like here
Speaker 1: we are, We're about to launch a book on marriage
Speaker 1: in like five hours and we're having this conflict. But
Speaker 1: but we did. I would say, like about an hour later,
Speaker 1: we were driving and and I was like, hey, let's
Speaker 1: let's go back. Can we get clear on that? You know,
Speaker 1: we kind of we kind of revealed our experience, but
Speaker 1: it did feel like we got back totally. I think
Speaker 1: that's what you're both saying though, that there's an aspiration,
Speaker 1: but we're all human. And I think that's so important
Speaker 1: because gosh, if people read the book and they're like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, they're perfect and they never have any
Speaker 1: conflict or any fight, that's not true. But I think
Speaker 1: it does give a framework where when we're off, there's
Speaker 1: at least a path back. It's not necessarily instant, but
Speaker 1: there's a path back. I think it's cool too, because
Speaker 1: you know, I'm rooting for you guys. There's so many
Speaker 1: books about marriage out there, and but it's like, even
Speaker 1: though with some of the concepts you guys have shared
Speaker 1: that you're talking about in the eighty eight Marriage Book
Speaker 1: and then what we've talked about, they're similar in ideals,
Speaker 1: but they're said so differently, but with the same concept
Speaker 1: that it's gonna it's gonna hit people a different way,
Speaker 1: you know, depending on how people receive information. So I'm
Speaker 1: personally rooting for you guys. It's awesome. I love the
Speaker 1: concept of what you guys are doing. Ordering it on
Speaker 1: Amazon right now, the eight Marriage and also so we
Speaker 1: a way to connect. Um, we read a marriage book together. Um,
Speaker 1: so this is going to be one next one so
Speaker 1: oh I'm still excited. And then after we read it,
Speaker 1: can we get we have you guys back on the
Speaker 1: show to talk to you. We'll definitely do that once
Speaker 1: we get finished here, uh soon because I'd be a
Speaker 1: lot of fun to really dive into the deep stuff
Speaker 1: on And what we do is we take notes on
Speaker 1: the stuff that we're reading and what comes up for us.
Speaker 1: So we love to process the things that come up
Speaker 1: for us when we're reading your book, and that would
Speaker 1: be a lot of fun to dive in about that.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, so exciting. Do you guys have an
Speaker 1: UM website so that our listeners can find you guys
Speaker 1: at two but also go to Amazon and get the
Speaker 1: eight marriage. Yeah, we're at a eight marriage dot com
Speaker 1: and marriage on Facebook and Instagram, so pretty easy. Yeah. Awesome.
Speaker 1: Well you guys, thank you so much. UM have a
Speaker 1: great launch. So excited for you guys and can't wait
Speaker 1: to see on the on the list. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: anytime anytime to talk with you about the book when
Speaker 1: you're done. Absolutely all right, Thank you guys, guys. Hey
Speaker 1: a great job. Hey, thank you. As the recording. Stop.
Speaker 1: Great job. You guys did great, awesome, I know, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, this is so exciting for real. I'm so
Speaker 1: so looking forward to talking with you about it when
Speaker 1: you like take your nuge, like, so what about this part? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love you. How how like informal and fun it is?
Speaker 1: You know we've been we were on Good Morning America
Speaker 1: three yesterday and it was like, this is really fun,
Speaker 1: how great? Thank you, thank you so much. We understand.
Speaker 1: We empathize with how this book tour is so and
Speaker 1: take deep breaths and just have fun. And I get it. Michael,
Speaker 1: He's like, he'll be like, wait, so I couldn't go
Speaker 1: do this, but you can go hang out with your
Speaker 1: friend over here. And I'm like, well, you know, like
Speaker 1: it's a necessity. Here they are and you look beautiful.
Speaker 1: So they did a great job. All right, guys, have
Speaker 1: a good one. Congrat YouTube. I love them. Oh they
Speaker 1: were awesome people fifteen years. Yeah. It's just it's so
Speaker 1: inspiring because especially when you hear that they had a
Speaker 1: few bad years and you know, they had some darker years.
Speaker 1: It's just it's just true. There's no perfect I don't
Speaker 1: believe there's a perfect marriage, and I think that's okay.
Speaker 1: I think that's just as long as people can grow
Speaker 1: together and do the work. That's what makes a lasting
Speaker 1: marriage is doing the work. Yeah, And it's just you know,
Speaker 1: we've been fortunate to share our journey. These people, Kaylie
Speaker 1: and Nader are fortunate to share their journey and use
Speaker 1: their platforms. So it's just awesome that there are other
Speaker 1: people out there willing because again, they're gonna have they
Speaker 1: might have a different audience that here their things better
Speaker 1: than they heard our book or something. So it's just
Speaker 1: the more people that do this, I really root for
Speaker 1: everyone in that genre because I want people to be
Speaker 1: educated about these relationships and be willing to make them work,
Speaker 1: you know. All Right, well, let's take a break and
Speaker 1: then I'm sure marky Mark has got some emails for us.
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Okay, Hey Mark, do we have any emails?
Speaker 1: We have a couple of good ones. Actually, this is
Speaker 1: from Alex. She says, I'm from South Jersey and my
Speaker 1: husband's from Long Island, New York. That's where we're currently living.
Speaker 1: We're moving back to New Jersey in a few weeks
Speaker 1: because I just need to be near my family and
Speaker 1: I've really struggled with that, especially since my dad got
Speaker 1: diagnosed with brain cancer three years ago. I struggle with
Speaker 1: anxiety and depression, and being in New York has been hard.
Speaker 1: I have a tremendous amount of guilt that my husband
Speaker 1: has to leave everything. But I know this will make
Speaker 1: me happier and honestly both of us as a couple.
Speaker 1: But I also fear it's going to be a strain
Speaker 1: for us. Do you guys struggle being away from family?
Speaker 1: Can you give me advice for not feeling so guilty?
Speaker 1: Am I being selfish? I'm so afraid of my husband
Speaker 1: being miserable and resenting me. First of all, I'm sorry
Speaker 1: that's awful that your dad is going through that. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't think you're being selfish at all. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you're able to move right, that's and I mean
Speaker 1: the husband doesn't didn't say he's upset, is he? No?
Speaker 1: I don't say anything. I think here, Alexa, you just
Speaker 1: have to trust the fact that if your husband had
Speaker 1: an issue or had feelings around it, he would tell you.
Speaker 1: And that's his responsibility to tell you because if you
Speaker 1: ask him if he's willing to do this, and he was,
Speaker 1: and he said, I understand, and let's do it. You
Speaker 1: have to take him for his take him for his word,
Speaker 1: and if he tries to hold that against you, that
Speaker 1: is his work. That is all on him, and that
Speaker 1: would be extremely unfair to do in the relationship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of him. Um, I also think too, what could be
Speaker 1: nice and may be helpful for helpful for your husband too,
Speaker 1: as if you said, you know, just check in with
Speaker 1: him like hey, and and not thank him, but be
Speaker 1: like I appreciate you for doing this and you know
Speaker 1: coming here and you know how much this means to me.
Speaker 1: So I think when the person that is willing to
Speaker 1: make this move with you, just if they feel appreciated
Speaker 1: to know that, I think that would go a long way, right.
Speaker 1: I Mean it's like if you know, you coming here
Speaker 1: to while I'm working and filming, and if I didn't
Speaker 1: appreciate you'd be like why am I like what? You know?
Speaker 1: For sure, but just to be like, hey, I really
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming here and being with the kids and
Speaker 1: being with us, and like thank you, it really means
Speaker 1: a lot to me. Yeah. I mean everyone likes to
Speaker 1: be validated, especially when they're making sacrifices. But that's what
Speaker 1: especially in marriage is all about, right, you make sacrifices
Speaker 1: for one another for the greater good and just support
Speaker 1: each other and so that you love each other. And
Speaker 1: you know, even so you're going from Long Island and
Speaker 1: New Jersey, you're not going that well your South Jersey.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that is a little further, but you know
Speaker 1: it's not across the country, um, you know. And in
Speaker 1: terms of do we struggle being away from family, UM,
Speaker 1: I don't think we do. I know I don't personally. Um.
Speaker 1: But having said that, it's now with kids and like
Speaker 1: my sister having kids, that's the part I struggle with
Speaker 1: because I would love, you know, and then with our
Speaker 1: niece and nephew you know my um Jianna's brother or
Speaker 1: niece and nephew on that side, that's the stuff I
Speaker 1: wish we were all closer with is to be around
Speaker 1: the kids more, be around the nieces and nephews, have
Speaker 1: our kids be around the grandparents. So that's the biggest
Speaker 1: thing for me. Yeah, And I think wherever you are
Speaker 1: to you you you make family like your friends become
Speaker 1: family and in a sense too, And if I could,
Speaker 1: I don't think I would want to. I love my
Speaker 1: family don't get me wrong, but I thought I'd like
Speaker 1: to be able to just visit them as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you and I are both that way where our friends
Speaker 1: have always been like family does so. Good question, and
Speaker 1: this is from Lisa Jianna. I'm currently five months pregnant
Speaker 1: and see myself as a workaholic and definitely put my
Speaker 1: job above other things, even my relationships. Sometimes. How do
Speaker 1: you if I of the balance between family and work
Speaker 1: And does Mike ever have to tell you to slow
Speaker 1: down or try to put less on your plate? Yes, Lisa,
Speaker 1: I do. Somehow she's able to balance family and everything
Speaker 1: that she does. Um. And also I'm I'm able to
Speaker 1: understand that if she has to be on her phone
Speaker 1: a little bit more around times, you know, she's good
Speaker 1: at like you know, no, we don't do any phones
Speaker 1: at dinner. We don't, you know, when the kids are
Speaker 1: trying to get our attention, we're going to call each other.
Speaker 1: I'll be like, hey, so it's calling your name. And
Speaker 1: early on I had an issue with Janna having to
Speaker 1: be on her phone so much, but then I understood,
Speaker 1: you know, that's what's keeping a roof of our head primarily,
Speaker 1: you know, so I have grace with that, but I
Speaker 1: do try to tell her to slow down, because you're
Speaker 1: not going to solve all the world's problems in one day.
Speaker 1: I have to force her to take time for herself,
Speaker 1: literally have to force her. And well, I still I'm
Speaker 1: trying to get through that thick skull of hers. Is
Speaker 1: that by her taking time for herself, taking a night
Speaker 1: to hang out with friends, taking a day, taking whatever,
Speaker 1: it's not just helping her. It's helping everybody. It's helping me,
Speaker 1: it's helping her, it's helping the kids, it helps the
Speaker 1: whole crew. If you just take the time every now
Speaker 1: and then. Yeah, it's just hard. But I will say
Speaker 1: I make sure from something for me. Well, I'll say
Speaker 1: this too. It's I think it's hard for me to
Speaker 1: to balance because my time for myself is working out,
Speaker 1: and so I would feel guilty if I'd have to
Speaker 1: ask ask for additional time. So that's something that I'm
Speaker 1: constantly working at because usually we're like, hey, you take
Speaker 1: an hour, I take an hour to do and that
Speaker 1: hour is usually I work out, And yeah, I would
Speaker 1: love to be able to just relax and take a
Speaker 1: bath or do this or you know, so you know,
Speaker 1: it's one of those things I'm working on. I'm working
Speaker 1: on it, but again asking for what I need, ask
Speaker 1: for what you need, Lisa, because you're not going to
Speaker 1: be able to do it all by yourself and have
Speaker 1: your partner help you. All right, Well, that was a
Speaker 1: great show, um, and we will see you guys next week.
Speaker 1: All right, later