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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: Let me tell you we have a new star.

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Speaker 1: A star is born Elon.

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Speaker 3: Up On, Mars, Juth and Kennemy.

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Speaker 4: He is the Thomas Edison plus plus plus.

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Speaker 3: Of our age.

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Speaker 1: Probably his whole life is from a position of insecurity.

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Speaker 2: I feel for the guy. I would say ninety eight

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Speaker 2: percent really appreciate what he deesk.

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Speaker 4: But those two percent that are nasty, they I'll pay

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Speaker 4: in four post. We were meant for great things in

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Speaker 4: the United States of America, and Elon reminds us of

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Speaker 4: that we don't have a fourth branch of governments called Elon.

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Speaker 3: Musk Hi everyone Sarah Fryar here. The day of Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump's inauguration, jud legoom launched a publication called musk Watch,

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Speaker 3: an offshoot of a successful newsletter, Popular Information. This caught

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Speaker 3: my eye because we had Elon Inc. Made similar bet

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Speaker 3: that the most powerful person in the world was getting

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Speaker 3: more powerful and deserved deeper discussion long term. I wanted

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Speaker 3: to invite Judd to talk about why he made a

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Speaker 3: decision and what he has learned so far. Jud has

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Speaker 3: had a clear perspective in his work critical of Mustage,

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Speaker 3: but he backs up those opinions with exclusive data and

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Speaker 3: scoops that make his newsletter worthy of reading no matter

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Speaker 3: what you think about Musk. So, without further ado, here's

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Speaker 3: the interview with jud for the record in these fast

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Speaker 3: moving times.

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Speaker 1: It was reported last.

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Speaker 3: Friday, jud Legoom, thank you so much for being here

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Speaker 3: with us today.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: The thing that strikes me as a challenge for something

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Speaker 3: like musk Watch, which you launched, I think in right

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Speaker 3: around inauguration correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the inauguration day is why not launch.

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Speaker 3: An inauguration day this was this is an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: have this macro view of the richest man in the

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Speaker 3: world slashing US buyd. We initially thought it might be

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Speaker 3: like an advisory committee to the President, but then it

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Speaker 3: turned into something that was just so embedded with every

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Speaker 3: US agency and you've been getting a lot of very

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Speaker 3: detailed inside scoops. But then you also have the big picture.

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Speaker 3: How can you possibly keep track of everything happening at

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Speaker 3: all of these different agencies and come to a conclusion

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Speaker 3: of the through line here, like what's actually happening?

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Speaker 1: How do we keep track?

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Speaker 2: It's difficult.

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Speaker 4: I think it's difficult because we've never had one person

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Speaker 4: with this combination of extreme wealth and political power married together.

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Speaker 4: I did some reading of some other folks who you

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Speaker 4: might throw into that conversation, like a John D. Rockefeller,

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Speaker 4: who was very wealthy, maybe almost as wealthy as Musks

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Speaker 4: now if you adjusted all for inflation, and he had

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Speaker 4: political influence, but he wasn't embedded in the way. He

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Speaker 4: didn't have an office in the White House, he wasn't

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Speaker 4: going through individual department's figuring it out what he wanted

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Speaker 4: to keep and what he didn't. It's really unprecedented, and

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Speaker 4: I think, how do you keep up with it? I

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Speaker 4: don't think you can. It's a matter of figuring out

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Speaker 4: what are the key important parts, what are the things

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Speaker 4: that are most consequential. And that's really been our task

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Speaker 4: with Musk Watch as well.

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Speaker 2: We're not gonna be able to.

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Speaker 4: Get to everything, but we're trying to isolate the things

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Speaker 4: that really are having the biggest impact.

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Speaker 3: It feels like that's part of the strategy, is to

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Speaker 3: do so much at once that it becomes difficult for

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Speaker 3: folks to do much more than say, you know, I

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Speaker 3: want to figure out what's even happening before I know

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Speaker 3: how to react to it. How do you think this

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Speaker 3: is feeling from a strategy perspective for a Musk, why

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Speaker 3: is he going about it this way?

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Speaker 4: Well, you can see part of it if you look

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Speaker 4: at how the lawsuits progress. Obviously there's a number of lawsuits,

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Speaker 4: dozens of laws suits that have been filed, many of

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Speaker 4: which involve, if not Musk personally, than DOGE, and often

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Speaker 4: they are acting more rapidly than the legal system can

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Speaker 4: keep up with. So, for instance, there's challenges based on

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Speaker 4: the fact that the DOGE operatives were not part of

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Speaker 4: various departments and so therefore their actions within this departments

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Speaker 4: were illegal.

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Speaker 2: Then there's been a.

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Speaker 4: Reason filing says, oh, actually, now they're all part of

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Speaker 4: the departments. We've signed them up and they're all a

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Speaker 4: bit assigned and are now officially a part of it.

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Speaker 2: So you see that playing out.

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Speaker 4: I do think that is part of the strategy, and

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Speaker 4: I do also think it matches up both with Musk's

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Speaker 4: business career, which is just work as fast as possible

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Speaker 4: to make the biggest changes you can. You know, if

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Speaker 4: you look at what he did at Tesla, if you

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Speaker 4: look at what he did with SpaceX, takes these big risks.

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Speaker 4: You know, SpaceX almost went bankrupt Tesla almost bankrupt, but

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Speaker 4: you just push as fast and as hard as possible,

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Speaker 4: take these big risks, and it's worked out for him.

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Speaker 4: I think what we're seeing now is government is fundamentally different.

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Speaker 2: The capitalist system is set.

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Speaker 4: Up to reward these big risks for a Tesla, for

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Speaker 4: a SpaceX, but people, I think have less of an

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Speaker 4: appetite for a big risk with social security or the

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Speaker 4: school system or all these other things that the government

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Speaker 4: deals with. And that's really what we're sorting through right now.

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Speaker 3: If you are a lay person, if you're just a

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Speaker 3: regular maybe even a fan of Elon Musk has watched

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Speaker 3: him for years. He said, listen, everyone said it was

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Speaker 3: chaos what he was doing at Twitter. Everyone said it

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Speaker 3: was chaos what he was doing at Tesla, in SpaceX

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Speaker 3: and all of these companies that he's touched. It has

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Speaker 3: gone through this sort of painful period or continues to

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Speaker 3: go through painful periods, and then came out the other side,

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Speaker 3: enriching Elon Musks and his companies and leading to some

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Speaker 3: positive endgame.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: So, is there out of the cocoon emerging as a

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Speaker 3: butterfly moment for the US government or does it just

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Speaker 3: keep getting more chaotic.

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Speaker 4: I think you could imagine theoretically at working well. I

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Speaker 4: think it's undeniably true that there is waste and fraud

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Speaker 4: embedded in the federal government. In fact, the Inspectors Generals,

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Speaker 4: which Trump got rid of shortly after getting into office,

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Speaker 4: have uncovered a lot of that in their reports. They

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Speaker 4: don't necessarily get rid of it, but they say, we've

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Speaker 4: tracked this, and these payments are fraudulent. And you could

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Speaker 4: imagine someone like Musk doing a good job of figuring

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Speaker 4: out where those things are through technical knowledge or something

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Speaker 4: like that. I think that the key differentiator between what

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Speaker 4: must did at a Tesla or a SpaceX is he

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Speaker 4: was working with people who knew about space exploration and

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Speaker 4: knew about rockets and knew about cars, and he was

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Speaker 4: adding his intensity to that process and risk taking, his

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Speaker 4: appetite for risk taking to that process, and they came

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Speaker 4: out with a good result, at least for a period

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Speaker 4: of time.

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Speaker 2: I think DBD on both of those companies.

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Speaker 4: But here he's just taken the same people who know

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Speaker 4: about space exploration and he's dropped them into the Social

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Speaker 4: Security Department or the Department of Energy or the EPA,

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Speaker 4: and in many cases he's not even putting in his experts.

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Speaker 4: He's finding these very i'll say charitably early career software

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Speaker 4: people who have shown I think little interest or even

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Speaker 4: curiosity about how the government works, dropping them into these

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Speaker 4: agencies and just sort of letting them run wild, also

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Speaker 4: pairing it with sort of this kind of paranoid fantasy

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Speaker 4: about what's happening in a lot of these places, and

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Speaker 4: having that drive a lot of the activity. I think fundamentally,

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Speaker 4: what we're seeing is much more destructive rather than something

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Speaker 4: that has a lot of potential.

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Speaker 3: How is your opinion of Elon Musk changed during this

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Speaker 3: Doge process?

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Speaker 4: I think fundamentally, I'm skeptical of anyone with power, so

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Speaker 4: that's how I came into it. That's good when you're

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Speaker 4: writing working as a journalist. But I do think that

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Speaker 4: he is different than a businessman like Trump because he

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Speaker 4: does have real accomplishments. Tesla did fundamentally change the electric

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Speaker 4: car industry and mainstreamed a lot of electric cars. SpaceX

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Speaker 4: did a lot of things making space exploration cheaper and

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Speaker 4: more efficient, So these are real accomplishments. I think that

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Speaker 4: what has surprised me, or at least to the extent

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Speaker 4: that it's happened, is just how reckless he's willing to

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Speaker 4: be in this new position, and how deeply ingrained this

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Speaker 4: idea of power maximization Elon has in all of his activities.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's where he and Trump really see

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Speaker 4: eye to eye, is that they are both trying to

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Speaker 4: maximize their power and they're willing to cross over the line.

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Speaker 4: The way they figure out where the line is is

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Speaker 4: by crossing over it and then seeing what happens.

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Speaker 3: So I think recklessness is actually not a part of

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Speaker 3: it that surprises me at all. We've seen recklessness be

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Speaker 3: kind of a recipe for transformation at all of his companies,

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Speaker 3: at X, at Tesla, as we've talked about like getting

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Speaker 3: rid of the unnecessary rules, at least in Elon Musk's mind,

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Speaker 3: what rules are unnecessary for change to happen more quickly.

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Speaker 3: What's surprising here to me is like, this is an

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Speaker 3: Elon's money, this is our money, this is taxpayer money

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Speaker 3: that's being appropriated by this one person. The usual process

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Speaker 3: obviously go through Congress, Like that's just the part of

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Speaker 3: it where you would expect to see some legal resistance,

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Speaker 3: but it's been kind of piecemeal. We haven't seen like

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Speaker 3: a broad fight back at all.

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Speaker 1: Why not.

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Speaker 4: There has been a good amount of legal resistance, just

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Speaker 4: in the sense of a lot of lawsuits have been filed.

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Speaker 4: But I think that fundamentally Trump has handed elon the

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Speaker 4: keys to the whole government.

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Speaker 2: That was something I did not anticipate.

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Speaker 4: He's unilaterally making these cuts. What you've seen is some

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Speaker 4: of these judges will issue a temporary restraining order, which

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Speaker 4: is basically the quickest kind of order that they can issue,

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Speaker 4: saying you can't implement this policy.

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Speaker 2: You can't just cut off all of the funding.

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Speaker 4: For nih for example, because you've decided you don't like

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Speaker 4: DEI like, that's not something you can do. And then

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Speaker 4: what you've seen the reaction to be is just make

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Speaker 4: a little tweak or do something else like cut off

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Speaker 4: every single government credit card to have the same impact

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Speaker 4: as the first thing, and then it cycles back to

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Speaker 4: court and then they issue a new temporary strating order

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Speaker 4: and then another little change happens. So it's very difficult

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Speaker 4: as long as Trump is willing to let him do

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Speaker 4: what he wants in each of these agencies, for the

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Speaker 4: legal system to keep up with it. So I think

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Speaker 4: that is the dynamic that's at play, and also the

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Speaker 4: other entity that could do something potentially is you could

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Speaker 4: have Congress step in and sit and try to raise

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Speaker 4: him in more and essentially empowered these judges more to

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Speaker 4: make quicker decisions and create clearer legal lines about what

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Speaker 4: is appropriate and what is inappropriate.

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Speaker 2: And that's not happening either.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's such a huge challenges or reporters,

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Speaker 3: like you're writing these things Doge is doing. This does

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Speaker 3: is cutting off that and you of course need to

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Speaker 3: include in the story the context that this is the

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Speaker 3: law doesn't allow those to do this, but the structure

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Speaker 3: of the government as it currently stands, and the way

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Speaker 3: Trump has allowed Doge access, you know, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: making it happen anyway. I find that to be a

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Speaker 3: challenge in like writing about this, the certainty that we

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Speaker 3: need to have about like, you know, what Trump says

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Speaker 3: is happening, what's actually happening, and then whether legally it

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Speaker 3: can happen, or whether they have the authority to do

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Speaker 3: what they say they're doing. Even just Trump saying that

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Speaker 3: he will label vandalism of Tesla's domestic terrorism, like is

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Speaker 3: there going to be EO on that?

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Speaker 1: In Executive order.

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Speaker 3: Are we going to see a law change to that

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Speaker 3: respect because Trump doesn't really.

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Speaker 1: Have the authority to declare that for maybe he does.

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Speaker 4: Here's something I also think that's going on as we

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Speaker 4: go through this process. This is extraordinary process that I

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Speaker 4: don't think we've ever seen before, is that the law

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Speaker 4: is the law, but it's not self enforcing, and ultimately

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Speaker 4: the courts are there.

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Speaker 3: Lawyer, I just want to I just want to let

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Speaker 3: our listeners there, you are, you are, you have a

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Speaker 3: lot of grade, go.

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Speaker 2: To law school.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, for better or for worse. But it's not self enforcing.

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Speaker 4: And I think that the courts, especially their best position

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Speaker 4: to constrain this. But if they issue an order, they

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Speaker 4: are going to be extremely reluctant to come to the

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Speaker 4: conclusion that the executive branch is violating their order because

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Speaker 4: once they once they say that, what are they going

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Speaker 4: to do? What is the recourse that they have? The

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Speaker 4: whole system is premised on everyone respecting everyone's role, and

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Speaker 4: when the court issues the order, the expectation is that's

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Speaker 4: taken seriously and the executive branch follows it. They follow

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Speaker 4: the purpose of the order, not just saying, oh yeah,

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Speaker 4: we technically recognize this order and now we're going to

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Speaker 4: do the same thing, just in a slightly different way,

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Speaker 4: which is a lot of what we're seeing right now.

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Speaker 4: So then that puts the Court in a really difficult

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Speaker 4: position because they don't want to put a spotlight on

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Speaker 4: the fact that they have not their authority is now

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Speaker 4: being ignored because.

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Speaker 2: Where does that leave the court?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: Where does that leave the whole system? So that's really

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Speaker 4: the dance that's going on there.

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Speaker 3: And then we're seeing from Musk, from Vans, from a

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Speaker 3: lot of the folks involved, like all of us, talk

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Speaker 3: of court reform, judicial reform, How bad slash complicated could

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Speaker 3: things get from here? In terms of this dance between

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Speaker 3: the executive branch the legislature of the courts, I.

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Speaker 2: Would say it's already very bad. I think it's very bad.

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Speaker 4: And the authority of the courts, whether they want to

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Speaker 4: admit it or not, is being eroded.

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Speaker 2: If you want to take a slightly more positive view.

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Speaker 4: When the one issue that has gotten all the way

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Speaker 4: to the Supreme Court, we're likely to see several more

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Speaker 4: make it there. The Court did end up and they

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Speaker 4: may not do this next time. But for this particular

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Speaker 4: instance involving USAID and funding that had been already approved.

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Speaker 4: It was all the way over there and then cut off.

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Speaker 4: They said, well, you do have to fund that, and

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Speaker 4: a couple of the conservatives went over with the three

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Speaker 4: liberals and formed the majority there. And it does appear

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Speaker 4: that the Trump administration said we're going to listen to

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Speaker 4: that and release that very limited amount of funding. So

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Speaker 4: maybe that's a line that they will draw. But even so,

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Speaker 4: it's not supposed to be that you only respect the

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court. Most cases don't even get to the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 4: They take a very small number of cases, and we're

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Speaker 4: in a position where the authority of the courts is

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Speaker 4: deeply in question.

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Speaker 2: And I hear from people every day at these ages.

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Speaker 2: I've talked to more people who worked.

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Speaker 4: At the federal government between January twentieth today that I

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Speaker 4: think I have in my whole career writing until then.

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Speaker 4: And things are happening and I can't even write about

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Speaker 4: them all. But things are happening every day that appear

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Speaker 4: to violate these orders, and there's just very little that

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Speaker 4: could be done. A lot of it isn't even getting

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Speaker 4: out there.

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Speaker 3: I mean, even as a journalist, there's very little that

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Speaker 3: you feel you can do given the amount of violation.

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Speaker 4: You're saying, yes exactly. When you go through these things,

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Speaker 4: you can't just take one person's word for it. If

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Speaker 4: someone's telling you something, you've got to then go to

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Speaker 4: your other sources see if they can confirm that, or

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Speaker 4: find somebody else who knows about that. So it's a

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Speaker 4: whole process and you have to figure out what's significant.

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Speaker 4: But the kinds of things that are happening, I would

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Speaker 4: say there's really very little deference being.

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Speaker 3: Shown to the what consequences do you think there should

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Speaker 3: realistically be for what's happening, this erosion of the court's authority,

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Speaker 3: the getting a legal order and then kind of editing

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Speaker 3: their approach but doing the same thing that the court's

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Speaker 3: objected to. Where do we end up a few months

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Speaker 3: years down the road.

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Speaker 4: I think that there are things that the courts could do.

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Speaker 4: They could hold someone in contempt of court. They could

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Speaker 4: hold a cabinet secretary or an assistant secretary in contempt

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Speaker 4: of court for not following their orders. I don't think

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Speaker 4: many judges are going to haul off Trump appointees to jail.

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Speaker 2: Like I just don't think they're in the business of

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Speaker 2: doing that.

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Speaker 4: So I think that there's two directions. Either the Trump

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Speaker 4: administration will push this to a certain line but then decide, well,

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Speaker 4: if it gets to the Supreme Court, or maybe if

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Speaker 4: it gets to the Appeals Court, we're going to follow

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Speaker 4: those decisions. We'll just keep challenging them into one of

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Speaker 4: these courts say so, or they just do whatever they

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Speaker 4: would like to do and you have a complete breakdown

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Speaker 4: of the constitutional system of government.

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Speaker 2: But I think that's I think that that is definitely

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Speaker 2: on the table.

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Speaker 1: Complete breakdown of the constitution is on the table.

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, I'm not going to say that we're we're there,

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Speaker 4: but that's the process. That's the dance that we're involved

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Speaker 4: in now. Elon Musk is testing the limits, seeing how

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Speaker 4: far he can go. And once that limit is clearly

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Speaker 4: defined by the court and the dance is over, will

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Speaker 4: they then say, Okay, we understand now where the limit

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Speaker 4: is and back off, or will they just continue pushing ahead.

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Speaker 4: And that's the thing that we'll find out over the

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Speaker 4: next I don't know how long it's going to play out,

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Speaker 4: six months, a year, two years, but that's what's playing out.

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Speaker 3: I even wonder how long Musk can afford to keep

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Speaker 3: running this the way he's running it, it sounds like

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Speaker 3: he's starting to have tension with Trump's cabinet. He's starting

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Speaker 3: to have big consequences for his businesses. And in the

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Speaker 3: beginning of this process, one of our big questions that

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Speaker 3: we had was, is this whole relationship with Trump something

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Speaker 3: that's going to enriched Musk and his companies or hurt them?

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Speaker 3: Right the foundation of his wealth, everything he's built to

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Speaker 3: this point. Does Tesla benefit from Trump selling cars on

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Speaker 3: the White House lawn or is that a stain on

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Speaker 3: their brand down the line. It's so interesting to see

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Speaker 3: this push and pull not just between the executive branch

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Speaker 3: and the other branches the government, but between Elon Musk

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Speaker 3: and his legacy.

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Speaker 1: Is this his legacy? Is that his legacy?

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Speaker 3: And if you look at places like Germany where Tesla

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Speaker 3: sales are down because following Musk's support of the fire

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Speaker 3: right there, we could see people start to treat Musk's

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Speaker 3: companies as extensions of the US government and vice versa,

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Speaker 3: or use them to appeal to Trump. That's the other

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Speaker 3: option is that he could be given a lot personally

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Speaker 3: just because he is a representative of the US government.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think once you get to the

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Speaker 4: point where you're selling cars at the White House, that's

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Speaker 4: not a good sign. The value of Tesla and how

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Speaker 4: must become the richest person in the world is not

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Speaker 4: because people think that another car company, even a car

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Speaker 4: company that only sells electric cars, is that valuable. It's

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Speaker 4: based on the idea that this is just the beginning,

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Speaker 4: and he's going to launch into this whole new world

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Speaker 4: of autonomous vehicles and the robots, the humanoid robots that

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Speaker 4: are going to be our company. Yeah, Butler's or whatever

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Speaker 4: is going to happen next. That's where the value is.

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Speaker 4: So but I think one thing that is the problem

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Speaker 4: is that right now he doesn't sell any of those things,

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Speaker 4: and it's a public company. So if your car sales

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Speaker 4: are dropping, you know, seventy five percent in Germany and

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Speaker 4: fifty percent in other places in Europe and forty percent

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Speaker 4: in California and all these major drops, are you even

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Speaker 4: going to get to the point where you can develop

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Speaker 4: those autonomous vehicles and robots and things like that. I

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Speaker 4: think that's a that's a big question market so far,

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Speaker 4: I think it has not been nearly as beneficial as

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Speaker 4: most people thought. Certainly the market gave him a big

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Speaker 4: bump as soon as Trump got elected, and he went

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Speaker 4: up and up, and then they were thinking they saw

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Speaker 4: maybe this isn't working out as well. We are seeing

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Speaker 4: some things where the ways in which Musk, and we've

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Speaker 4: done quite a bit of a reporting on this, can leverage.

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Speaker 2: His position to help his businesses.

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Speaker 4: So you've seen Musk use the White House complex meet

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Speaker 4: with the Prime Minister of India and then finally they

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Speaker 4: get in and Starlink now has the means to operate

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Speaker 4: in India. We've seen Musk push into the FAA with Starlink.

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Speaker 4: We've seed Musk push to get the International Space Station decommissioned,

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Speaker 4: maybe a year or two early, so that he can

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Speaker 4: start using SpaceX to service the commercial space stations that

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Speaker 4: will replace the International Space stations early and generate more

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Speaker 4: revenue this way. So how does that balance out? You're

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Speaker 4: selling less cars, maybe you're having more rocket launches and

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Speaker 4: selling more Starlink terminals. I don't know, you that's definitely

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Speaker 4: outside of my expertise.

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Speaker 3: I guess the big question is, like, is you just

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Speaker 3: started an Elon Musk publication? Is his power growing from here?

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Speaker 3: He's already the richest man in the world. He's already

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Speaker 3: working hand in hand with Trump, if not managing a

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Speaker 3: lot of what Trump does. Where do you see going?

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Speaker 3: Where do you see Musk's power?

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Speaker 1: Is he peaking?

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Speaker 3: And where does the Musk Trump relationship go from here?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 4: I think what you see as Musk has less of

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Speaker 4: an ability to really drive the growth of his companies,

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Speaker 4: at least in the short term. Where I see things

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Speaker 4: going is he's doubling down on his political influence. So

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Speaker 4: in addition to some spending seemingly all of his time

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Speaker 4: in DC working on doge and indicating that he's going

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Speaker 4: to do that for another year or more, he's also

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Speaker 4: talking about putting another one hundred million dollars into Trump's

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Speaker 4: political operation. You see him putting money into Supreme Court

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Speaker 4: races in Wisconsin. So I think really doubling down and

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Speaker 4: seeing how far he can take his political influence as

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Speaker 4: a way to maybe hedge against some of these economic

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Speaker 4: issues with his companies.

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Speaker 3: So how long do you think that this Trump friendship

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Speaker 3: is going to last? And how will it end if

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Speaker 3: at all?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I know a lot of people are predicting a

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Speaker 4: blow up. My theory about why this is not happening

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Speaker 4: is there's one thing that Trump values the most and

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Speaker 4: I think must value the most, and that's money. And

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Speaker 4: if you look at Trump's multi decade career, mostly in

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Speaker 4: real estate, he has made more money just by connecting

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Speaker 4: up with Musk and the crypto bros that surround him,

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Speaker 4: starting his meme coin, starting these relationships with World Liberty

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Speaker 4: Financial and other crypto ventures. Then he has his entire career.

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Speaker 4: He's always said that he.

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Speaker 2: Was a billionaire.

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Speaker 4: He's now a billionaire, and I think he knows that

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Speaker 4: it's going to be Elon. That also hooks him up

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Speaker 4: with the next idea to make his next billion dollars

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Speaker 4: and I don't see him kicking Elon out because of that.

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Speaker 4: I see this being a sustained, mutually beneficial relationship.

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Speaker 1: There we go, jud I've learned a lot.

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Speaker 3: I want to ask, how long do you see yourself

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Speaker 3: running a Musk watch in addition to popular information? And

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Speaker 3: if it goes global? If Musk goes global with this technique,

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00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 3: will you go global as well?

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Speaker 4: I see myself continuing this and definitely when I was

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Speaker 4: trying to hire people to work with me, because I

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00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 4: do idea they'll hire at least one or two more

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00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 4: people to get this going. A lot of people thought, oh,

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00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,640
Speaker 4: this is just going to fizzle out. So I think

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00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 4: I was right about that that it didn't, like immediately.

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Speaker 3: Feel very validated, didn't, you know, fizzle out immediately.

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Speaker 4: But I don't see this going away, you know. I

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Speaker 4: think he has now, along with Trump, is the embodiment

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00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 4: of the Republican Party. And I think it's just I

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00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 4: don't really see a scenario in which this is very

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00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 4: quickly unwound and all of a sudden there's some sort

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Speaker 4: of new version of the Republican Party that doesn't involve

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00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 4: a Musk. And his approach to this, I think they've

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00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 4: all bought in. And yeah, you see his ambitions. His

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00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 4: ambitions are well beyond the United States. He's in Germany,

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00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 4: he's in India, He's all over the place wanted even

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Speaker 4: more power.

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Speaker 2: And I think it just shows that's.

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Speaker 4: You don't become the world's wealthiest person by being satisfied

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00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 4: and saying, oh I have enough. I see for the

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00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 4: indefinite future him continuing to push more for more and

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00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 4: more power. And if one risk doesn't work out, then

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Speaker 4: I think his solution is usually to take a bigger risk.

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Speaker 1: There you have it.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Jed really appreciate all your time

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Speaker 3: with us today and.

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Speaker 1: I'll keep reading.

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Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: This episode was produced by Magnus Henrikson. Anna Maserakas is

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00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:47,400
Speaker 3: our editor, and rayhan Hamanci, our senior editor. Angel Roscillo

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00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 3: helped with the recording.

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Speaker 1: The Elon Inc.

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00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: Theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiora.

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00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: Brendan Francis Newnam is our executive producer, and Sage Bauman

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00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 3: is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. A big thanks to

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Speaker 3: our supporters Joel Weber and Brad Stone. I'm Sarah Fryar.

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00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 3: If you have a minute, rate and review our show,

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00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: it'll help other listeners

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Speaker 1: Find us and see you next week.