1 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World on February eighth and Paris, 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: thousands of opponents to Iran's authorities rallied to call for 3 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: the fall of the government in Tehran, hopeful the President 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: Trump's maximum pressure campaign could lead to change in the country. 5 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: The protest was organized by the Paris based National Council 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: of Resistance of Iran, which is banned in Iran. Two 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: of the group's members face imminent execution, with a further 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 1: six sentenced to death in November. Here to discuss the 9 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,919 Speaker 1: Iranian resistance. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest and 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: my friend, Alreza Jeffarzade, deputy director of the National Council 11 00:00:45,920 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: of Resistance of Iran. He Loreisa, welcome and thank you 12 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: for joining me on News World. 13 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 3: Speaking Gingrich, you know you have been a great supporter 15 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: of the people of Iran since the days that you 16 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 3: were in the House, even before you became the speaker 17 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 3: in the House, you always supported freedom in Iran. 18 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: You always supported our movement. 19 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 3: You counter the challenge that we're posed at that time 20 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 3: by the so called moderates, and there were people who 21 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 3: were trying to justify reaching out to the Irano regime 22 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: on their different pretext, and you stood firm against that, 23 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 3: and you stood on our side, And we really appreciate 24 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 3: it goes back to, you know, decades, so really appreciate 25 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 3: what you've done so far. 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: Well. I never forgot a conversation I had with Secretary 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: of Friends Bob Gates, who had been a deputy in 28 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine negotiating with the new Iranian dictatorship, and 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: he said, based on his experience, there were no moderates 30 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: in the regime, and anybody who thought there was simply 31 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: did not understand the nature of the regime. So I 32 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: have found in my experience that the National Council of 33 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: Resistance of Iran has remarkable ties inside the country and 34 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 1: has a tremendous amount of information about what's going on. 35 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: Can you talk about the use of Iran space program 36 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: as a cover for their nuclear activities. 37 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 3: The NCRI has a great network support, mostly based on 38 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: their main pivotal member organization within the Parliament in exile, 39 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 3: which is known as the Muchaiden how or the MEK. 40 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: They have a network all over the country and they 41 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 3: have been very consistent in showing what the run regime 42 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 3: is up to not just on the nuclear side, but 43 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 3: on all sides, on terrorism, on their killings inside Iran. 44 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: Now, this is the same movement that. 45 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 3: Exposed all the major nuclear sites off Iran in August 46 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 3: of two thousand and two, the nuclear site in natans 47 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 3: and Iraq, which actually triggered for the first time the 48 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 3: inspections of Iranian nuclear sites by the UN nuclear watchdog, 49 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 3: the IAEA that has continued ever since. Now, the new 50 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 3: information that we got that we just released was that 51 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 3: the Iran regime has been using the space program as 52 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 3: a camouflage to hide their very extensive nuclear weapons program 53 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 3: actually building nuclear warheads. They have been working on solid 54 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: fuel missiles with the range exceeding three thousand kilometers that 55 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 3: are being manufactured at two sites in Shahrud and Semnan 56 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: that they were known to be as missile sites, and 57 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 3: the regime always portrayed them as being the sites that 58 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 3: they're launching missiles for satellite to put in the orbit. 59 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: But in reality, we found out that. 60 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 3: The top organization that is in charge of building nuclear weapons, 61 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 3: known as Organization for Advanced Defense Research or SAPAN spn D, 62 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: which we first exposed in twenty eleven and was later 63 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 3: confirmed by the IEA and designated by the US government. 64 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: That organization is all over these two sites in Semnon 65 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 3: and Shaharud, and they are covering the building of nuclear 66 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 3: warheads under the cover of launching a space program. Let 67 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 3: me tell you this, Speacare you know the nuclear program 68 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 3: of the Round regime has never been a peaceful one. 69 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 3: It was always since day one, it was meant to 70 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 3: build the nuclear bomb for the Iran regime. And that 71 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 3: process has continued. And I remember in two thousand and 72 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:47,239 Speaker 3: two when we first exposed in Washington the nuclear size 73 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 3: in the Tanzan Iraq. I mean, that was an opportunity 74 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 3: for the outside world to stop that program, but unfortunately 75 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: they went the other direction. 76 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: They went to a piece of regime. 77 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 3: They giving them concessions and down and negotiating, and they 78 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 3: basically legitimize the program. And this is where we are 79 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 3: twenty four years later, that the regime is really very 80 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 3: close to building the bomb. 81 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: Why do you think some people in the West talk 82 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: themselves again and again into believing that you can trust 83 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 1: the dictatorship. What do you think is the underlying rationale? 84 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: Why do they do that? 85 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 2: Well, it could be a number of factors. That definitely. 86 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 3: I don't think they really understand the nature of this regime. 87 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 2: That this regime is built on. Destruction is built on 88 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 2: basically two pillars. 89 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 3: One is external, which is building nuclear weapons, the missile program, 90 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 3: their terror operations, their proxy groups, their drone program, all 91 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 3: of that. And then internally they're relying on repression, killing 92 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 3: their own opponents, killing any voices of descent. That's how 93 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 3: they operate and that's how they speak with the outside world. 94 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 3: This is not a rational regime that you can sit 95 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 3: down and negotiate and say, Okay, we give you this, 96 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 3: you give us that. No, this regime is ideology. It's 97 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: a reson death is based on those pillars that I mentioned. 98 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 3: So that's why if you sit down with the Iatolas, 99 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 3: you're going to end up legitimizing their terror operations. 100 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: You end up giving them the chance. 101 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: This regime has taken hostages since the eighties, and they 102 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 3: got into negotiation with the outside role to give them 103 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 3: money and resources in exchange for returning hostages, only to 104 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 3: take a few more. So, the West actually allowed the 105 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 3: regime to make the hostage taking a very profitable business 106 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 3: and put yourself in the shoes of the Iatolas. You know, 107 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: why would they give up hostage taking if it brings 108 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 3: them revenue. That's why I think the outside world were 109 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 3: always wrong in just looking at Iran through the prism 110 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 3: of the regime itself, as though Iran is only about 111 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: the Iatolas. No, the vast majority of the people of 112 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 3: Iran are posed to this regime. 113 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: There is an alternative. There is an organized. 114 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 3: Force trying to bring down the Iatolas and establish democracy 115 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: and freedom in the country. And because they were so 116 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: fixated in them reaching out to the Molas, they had 117 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 3: to close their eyes to the opposition. And not only that, 118 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 3: the number one demand of the run regime from their counterparts, 119 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 3: whether the United States or Europe, was to harm the opposition. 120 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 3: You fould the designation yourself. In nineteen ninety seven, that 121 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: was during the Clinton administation. They designated the very same 122 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: movement that exposed all the major movisides of around. They 123 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 3: designated that as an FTO Foreign terrorist organization. It took 124 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 3: fifteen years for this movement to fight the designation, get 125 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 3: Congress on his site, go through the courts and fight 126 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: that designation and get off in twenty twelve. Why would 127 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 3: anyone want to harm those who are actual freedom fighters 128 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 3: who are fighting your enemy. 129 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 2: So it's based on really this. 130 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 3: Wrong perception that you're going to get something out of 131 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 3: these molas. And I think after five decades, now is 132 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 3: the time for the world to understand that the head 133 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: of the snake of war and terror lies in Tehran 134 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 3: and the only way left for ending that terror is 135 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 3: to crush the head of the snake. And of course 136 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 3: that's the responsibility of the people of Iran. 137 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: And we will do it. 138 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,560 Speaker 3: The outside world they just need to understand it and 139 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: recognize the legitimacy of those who are fighting to bring 140 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 3: change in Iran. 141 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: Ayatola Committee recently went on national television and said, when 142 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: we say death to America, this is not a slogan, 143 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: this is a policy. And then recently he said, in 144 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: the sweech, negotiations with America do not solve any of 145 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: our problems. I mean, given that, what do you think 146 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: the impact will be of President Trump, who signed a 147 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: National Security Presidential Memorandum on February fifth, which says, quote, 148 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: restoring maximum pressure on the government of the Islamic Republic 149 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: of Iran, denying around all paths to a nuclear weapon 150 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: encountering Iran's malign influence abroad. What do you expect from 151 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: the Trump administration given that presidential memorandum. 152 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 3: Well, certainly this is a big change taker, you know, 153 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 3: in terms of policy, because this is the last thing 154 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 3: that the Aretolos ever wanted. They wanted to have the 155 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: ability to sell their oil and get all the revenue 156 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 3: that they need so that they can fund their terror groups. 157 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 3: They can increase the funding for the suppression of the population, 158 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: and actually by legitimacy, by that when the maximum pressure 159 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: policy is reinstated, that's a huge plus for the people 160 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 3: and against the regime. But we need to understand that 161 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: the situation now is very different than eight years ago. 162 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: This regime is highly vulnerable now. 163 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: There is a very serious opportunity to not just counter 164 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 3: the threat or limit the threat, or limit the ability 165 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 3: of the Iran regip with the maximum Pressure policy brings, 166 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 3: but also empower those on the ground who want to 167 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 3: bring about change. 168 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 2: You want to end the threat for once and for all. 169 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 3: I mean, you don't want to punt it, you don't 170 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 3: want to just delay it. 171 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: You want to end it. 172 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,239 Speaker 3: The world shouldn't live in a coexistence with the epicenter 173 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 3: of terror and chaos in the region and the people 174 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 3: of Iran have long rejected that. So here's an opportunity 175 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 3: without you know, boots on the ground, without even appropriating money, 176 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 3: none of that, to build pressure on the Iran regime, 177 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 3: but also at the same time create space for those 178 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 3: on the ground who are already fighting the regime to 179 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 3: bring about change. And it's so important when I say 180 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 3: on the ground, because you know, it's one thing to 181 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 3: have critics and just talk about the problem of the 182 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 3: Round regime. It's another thing to actually bring it down. 183 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: Remember in Syria, Asset, you know, the whole world was 184 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 3: against it, but at the end of the day, it 185 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 3: took those on the ground to push back the forces 186 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 3: of Asset and bring down the Asset regime that probably 187 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 3: had one of the best equipped armies in the whole region. 188 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 3: But yet you know, when the support from the outside 189 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 3: was diminished, their pillars were weakened. That was the opportunity 190 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 3: for forces on the crown, and that's exactly what the 191 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 3: Rain Resistance has been trying to do. There have been 192 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 3: nine rounds of major uprisings in Iran in all thirty 193 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 3: one provinces. People seek change, and at the forefront of 194 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 3: that has been you know the resistance units of the 195 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: MK These are mostly young people who have been fighting 196 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 3: the revolution guards, trying to target them and break down 197 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 3: this aura of invincibility of the regime, to show the 198 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 3: people that this regime is not ten feet tall, that 199 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 3: you can actually bring it down. That's where the investment 200 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 3: should be. And that's exactly the opposite of what the 201 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 3: regime wants to do. The regime is doing a huge 202 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 3: amount of propaganda and demonization campaign against this very same 203 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 3: movement that is trying to overthrow them, and you're calling them, 204 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 3: called that, oh, they have no support, they're terrorists, or 205 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 3: this and that, and that's of course what you expect from. 206 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 2: The Iran regime. Right now, there's a court. 207 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 3: Set up by the Iran regime putting the leaders of 208 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 3: this movement in absentia on trial, trying to create some 209 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 3: kind of illegal precedence and use it against the Western nations, 210 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: but also use that as propaganda to fend off the 211 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 3: support of the youth in Iran for this movement. You 212 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 3: need to counter that, and I think this is the 213 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: opportunity and that's why Congress has always been since the 214 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 3: time you were in speaker, on our side and there's 215 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 3: a very bipartisan support in the House and the Senate 216 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 3: for this movement for missus Rajavi and her ten point 217 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 3: plan that has a very clear platform for the future 218 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 3: of Iran, that says Iran has to be rule based 219 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 3: on the ballot box, not you know, legitimacy coming from 220 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 3: the Iatollahs which they say they get it from God, 221 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 3: or if you have a better gene which was under 222 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 3: the Shaw's dictatorship, the monarchy that. 223 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: Didn't rule based on ballot box. 224 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: That needs to end. It has to be based on 225 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 3: suppression of religion and state. It has to be based 226 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 3: on gender equality, free market economy. Piece in the Mid 227 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 3: East and the non nuclear republic Iran, that's the platform 228 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 3: that is gaining momentum in the House and the Senate, 229 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 3: but also in Europe, and that's where you want to focus. 230 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: Israel Defense Minister Israel Cats warned of potential strikes on 231 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: Iran's nuclear facility. What are your thoughts on the possibility 232 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: of military action? How would that impact both Iran, Israel 233 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,319 Speaker 1: and the broader Middle East. 234 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 2: This is not a new issue. 235 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 3: This issue has been going on for years and people 236 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,839 Speaker 3: are thinking, Okay, what's the solution to the nuclear threat 237 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 3: of the Irano regime. But I think especially since October 238 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 3: of twenty twenty three, the world has realized that the 239 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 3: threat of the Iran regym is not just limited to 240 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 3: their nuclear weapons program. 241 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 2: Look what they're doing with their. 242 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 3: Proxies and how they're the epicenter of war and terror 243 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 3: in the region. 244 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: People. 245 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 3: I'm sure they're thinking about band aid solutions, you know, 246 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 3: temporary solutions here and there. 247 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 2: But you know, at the end of the day. 248 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 3: What is the world going to do with the threat 249 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 3: of the Irano regime. The only really viable alternative Volleybood 250 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 3: solution to end the threat is to end the rule 251 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 3: of the clerics, and of course, as I said, that's 252 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 3: the responsibility of the people of Iran. 253 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 2: No outside world can actually do that. 254 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 3: You know, Iran is a huge country with ninety million population, 255 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 3: so the role of the organized resistance on the ground 256 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 3: is absolutely crucial. So I would suggest everyone should be 257 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 3: focusing on those forces on the ground, those who have 258 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 3: been fighting the regime. They are the real future of Iran, 259 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 3: that future based on the vote of the population as 260 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 3: sovereign nation that by the way, wants peace in the 261 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 3: Middle East, unlike the Iatolas who say push the Jews 262 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 3: to the sea. This movement have been favoring peace since 263 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 3: day one. So I would suggest everyone, whether you know, 264 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 3: countries in Europe, countries in the region, in the United States, 265 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 3: everyone to focus on how to empower those who are 266 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 3: fighting the regime, but at the same time deprive the 267 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 3: Iran regime from the resources, from the funding. You definitely 268 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: need to snap back all the sanctions on the Iran regime. 269 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 3: You need to affility to deny them the resources. But 270 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 3: at the same time you want to create space for 271 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: those on the ground to recognize the legitimacy of their 272 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: fighting against the run regime. That's the real solution that 273 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: once for all would read the whole Middle East of 274 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 3: the epicenter of terror and chaos and think about it, speaker, 275 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 3: you know what an impact a free democratic republic Iran 276 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: would have, not just in the region, but the whole world. 277 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 3: It will change the face of everything. And that's the 278 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 3: prospect we should be looking. 279 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: At, you know, saying with a model in a way, 280 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: is what just happened in Syria. Everybody sort of thought 281 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: the Syrian dictatorship was stable, aside was stable, and then boom, 282 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: the whole thing collapsed almost overnight. Do you think it's 283 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: possible that the religious dictatorship could in fact collapse at 284 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: some point. 285 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 2: Well, definitely. 286 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 3: I think you brought up a great example speaker about Syria, 287 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 3: and everyone did think. 288 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: That you know their staple. 289 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 3: And remember they ran a regime had heavily invested on Syria. 290 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 3: They had as many as one hundred thousand of their proxies, 291 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 3: including Hezbollah and others in Syria. They spent at least 292 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 3: fifty billion dollars in keeping acid in power. Comedy spent 293 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,640 Speaker 3: all of the resources on Syria. He overtly said that 294 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 3: if we lose Syria, we will lose Tehran. 295 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 2: And he met twice with Putting. 296 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 3: Comedy did in November twenty fifteen and March twenty sixteen, 297 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 3: specifically on keeping. 298 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: Aside in Power. Awesome. 299 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 3: Solemani, the terror Master, regularly traveled to Syria. He actually 300 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 3: met with Assad but also met with Putting trying to 301 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 3: get Russia involved. And in December twenty sixteen, after about 302 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 3: five years of fighting, they took back the strategic city 303 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 3: of Aleppo. Now, as you said, within eleven days, the 304 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 3: whole thing collapsed, And that's an important thing because Syria 305 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 3: wasn't just Syria. It was the strongest ally of the 306 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 3: Iran regime. They had done everything to keep it in power, 307 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 3: and they seem to be, you know, stable, and suddenly 308 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 3: this is the situation. I think this is the new 309 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 3: reality of the region. And that reality is definitely on 310 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 3: the mind of Comedy and the leaders of the Iran regime, 311 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 3: but also has its own impact among the population. The 312 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 3: reading people are saying that, you know it, Alas always 313 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 3: considered Syria as what they described as a strategic depth 314 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 3: of the regime. 315 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 2: Okay, that strategic depth is gone. We now have the opportunity. 316 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 3: These dictators they all seem very invincible until they fall. 317 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 3: Remember the shot that you know, he had all the 318 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 3: military mighty. 319 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 2: It was so arrogant that, you know. 320 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 3: He dissolved all the political parties and said, okay, there's 321 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 3: a single party. 322 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: It's my party. You're either a member of it or 323 00:18:59,000 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 2: you go to jail. 324 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 3: He had the Savaki, you know, he seemed to control 325 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 3: everything until the population got it and through a major revolution, 326 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: brought down that dictatorship. The same situation is with these iatolas. 327 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 3: They don't have the support of their people. They have 328 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 3: lost the clouds and the power of their proxies. And 329 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 3: now is the opportunity if the world really focuses on 330 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 3: the regime and the threat of the Iran regime. I 331 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 3: have no doubt whatsoever that this regime will be brought 332 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 3: down by the people of Iran. This regime has never 333 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 3: been so weak and the organized resistance has never been 334 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 3: this powerful. 335 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 1: You're a major figure in the National Council of Resistance 336 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: of Iran, and I have long supported the work of 337 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,919 Speaker 1: your organization. But I'm curious for Americans, what do you 338 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: consider to be the most significant achievements of the Council 339 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: in advancing the cause of a free and democratic aram. 340 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 3: The Council since nineteen eighty one actually introduced an alternative 341 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 3: to the Iran regime. At the time that everyone was 342 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 3: searching for mothers within the regime, they said no, this 343 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: regime must go in its entirety. They offered a platform 344 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 3: that eventually was highlighted the ten point Platform for the 345 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 3: Future of Iran. They address every single important issue related 346 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,159 Speaker 3: to Iran, whether it's the issue of the nationalities in Iran, 347 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 3: the issue of women, the issue of religion. You know, 348 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 3: Iran is predominantly Muslim, but they said no, it has 349 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 3: to be a secular government, separation of religion and state. 350 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 3: They didn't just talk about these issues. They didn't talk 351 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 3: about women equality. They implemented it in the Council itself. 352 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 3: You know, the majority of the members of the Parliament 353 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 3: in exile and the leadership of women they talked about 354 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 3: and they ratified platforms and plans for that. But also 355 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 3: they have been extremely active in undermining the regime. We 356 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 3: just talked about the nuclear program of the Iran regime. 357 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 3: The world didn't know anything about the nuclear weapons program 358 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 3: of Iran until you know, this movement brought to the 359 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 3: attention of the world. The IA inspections were triggered by 360 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 3: this movement and they have continued to do that. The 361 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 3: missile program of the Iran regime was exposed by this movement. 362 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 3: Their terror operations, what they were doing in Iraq and 363 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 3: elsewhere were exposed by this movement. But most importantly, they 364 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 3: are the engine for change in Iran. They offer an 365 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 3: alternative and they are in the forefront of fighting the regime. 366 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 3: You know, since nineteen eighty, one hundred twenty thousand members 367 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 3: and supporters of this movement have been killed by the 368 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 3: Iran regime for political griefs. You know, in summer of 369 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty eight, Commedy, you know, the predecessor to Comedy, 370 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 3: issued a fatfa, a religious decree condemning to death every 371 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 3: single member of the EMYKB, which is part of the NCRI, 372 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 3: because they were modern, democratic, secular Muslims opposing the ideology 373 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 3: of Islamic fundation, mentalism of the Ietolos. And they killed 374 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: as man as thirty thousand political prisoners in someone of 375 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 3: eighty eight within a matter of a few weeks, hoping 376 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 3: that this will end any kind of opposition in Iran. 377 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 3: And yet now you can see the children and the 378 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 3: grandchildren of those who were killed in nineteen eighty eight 379 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 3: in the streets of Tehran and all the thirty one 380 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 3: provinces of Iran continuing the engine for change. The most important, 381 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 3: I think accomplishment of this movement has been continued fighting 382 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 3: force against the regime, not just talking about change, but 383 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: affecting change on the ground, having that network inside Iran. 384 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 3: Just within one year, the regime arrested three thousand, seven 385 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 3: hundred members and supporters of the resistance units of the 386 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 3: MEK inside Iran or kill them or they went missing. 387 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 3: But the good news is that more have been added 388 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 3: to it, and they're more powerful than ever. So I 389 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,199 Speaker 3: think that's a huge accomplishment, not only to expose the 390 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 3: nature of the regime but also fighting it offering an 391 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 3: alternative so that the rest of the world wouldn't have 392 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 3: to go to war or do anything like that. Rather, 393 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 3: there is this genuine alternative on the ground that seeks 394 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 3: no money or no boots on the ground and wants 395 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 3: to bring about change in Iran and has a platform 396 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 3: that benefits the whole world. That's why it has a 397 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,479 Speaker 3: support of some four thousand parliamentarians around the world in 398 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,439 Speaker 3: Europe and everywhere else, but also the majority of the 399 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 3: House here and has been really a big galvanizing force 400 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,399 Speaker 3: outside of Iran as well. In addition to inside the 401 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 3: Raley you mentioned speaker in Paris that thousands came in 402 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 3: Europe telling the Europeans that you need to pursue a 403 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 3: firm policy to. 404 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: God in Iran. 405 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 3: But also they're coming here in Washington March eighth. This 406 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 3: coming March eighth, in Washington, there's going to be thousands 407 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 3: coming calling for firm policy on Iran. 408 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: This month is the forty sixth anniversary of the fall 409 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: of the Shaw's dictatorship in nineteen seventy nine, and certainly 410 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: things evolved differently than people thought they would. Could you 411 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: talk first of all about what happened right after that 412 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: and how we went from the notion of a collective, 413 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: more open society to a religious theocratic dictatorship, and that 414 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: brief period was just amazing how rapidly it changed. 415 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 2: I was in Iranity early days after the revolution. 416 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 3: I could see how the fall of the dictatorship had 417 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 3: created a tremendous opportunity for people, the freedom, the mood 418 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 3: of the population. But you could actually, at the same 419 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 3: time see how rapidly the Molas, who by the way, 420 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 3: came out of nowhere, stole the leadership of a genuine revolution. 421 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 3: You know, when the uprising started, the Molas had pretty 422 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 3: much no role in it. Romeni himself was in exile 423 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 3: in Iraq until four months before the fall. 424 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 2: Of the show. 425 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 3: You know, the uprisings were all over the different cities, 426 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,640 Speaker 3: in the different provinces in Iran. That's when Romeni saw 427 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 3: the opportunity, smelled the opportunity. He moved from Iraq to 428 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 3: near Paris in Nowfelo Chateau in October seventy eight and 429 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 3: in February he was in Tehran and he stole the 430 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 3: leadership of revolution. Why because the Shaw had eliminated the 431 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 3: nationalist forces. He had put in jail the intellectuals, anyone 432 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 3: who was intellectual, who was secular, he killed them. Samak 433 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 3: was running the show, but he kept the mosque intact. 434 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 2: The Masks were not affected by the show. 435 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: To the country. He actually helped the mosque in different 436 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 3: cities because they were praising the Shaw. All these clerics 437 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 3: would get down the stage and just say how great 438 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 3: the Shaw was. And Shaw was selling them the support 439 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 3: for the Molas to the West, saying, Okay, these Molas 440 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 3: are against communism. That's why I'm empowering them. I'm getting 441 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 3: rid of intellectuals because you know, he described them as 442 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 3: Islamic Marxists and all of that nonsense. When the opportunity came, 443 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,760 Speaker 3: the only network that was intact that could take advantage 444 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 3: of the situation was the clerics. And even though this 445 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 3: revolution was not about establishing Islamic extremist ideology, but that 446 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 3: created an opportunity and they stole it. In the first 447 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 3: two years after the revolution, they put in jail intellectuals, 448 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 3: the Molas and tried to dominate power, rallying people under 449 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 3: the cover of anti Americanism. They targeted people like to 450 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: em Kate that folt against the Shaw as well. Their 451 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 3: leaders were executed by the Shop, but they became the 452 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 3: primary target of the Mullus. That's why I think what 453 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: we have seen a clear deviation of a genuine revolution 454 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 3: that was meant for democracy, that ended up in theocracy. 455 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 3: And I'm sure there are people remnants of the Shaw's dictatorship, 456 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 3: but also the regime itself are trying to prop up 457 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 3: the remnants of the dictators of the Shaw, saying, oh, look, 458 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 3: you know the Shaw was better than the Mullus, that 459 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: he killed less people, and just trying to create a comparison, 460 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 3: whereas a comparison is not like that. 461 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 2: It should be between freedom and dictatorship. 462 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 3: And that's why the regime has an interest in propping 463 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 3: up the remnants of the dictatorship so that the outside 464 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 3: world would not look at the real alternative, which is democracy. 465 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 3: The alternative to this regime is not to go backwards 466 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 3: to dictatorship of a monarchy, but rather to freedom, political prurism, 467 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 3: gender equality and all of that and That's why I 468 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 3: think for six years later, the desire of the people 469 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 3: is still alive for freedom in Iran. 470 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 2: Now they are more experienced. 471 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 3: They have seen both the dictatorship of the Shaw but 472 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 3: also the theocracy of the Mollahs, and that's why the 473 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 3: only choice left for the people is freedom and political 474 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 3: cruralism and a republic form of a government. 475 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: If you had to rank them, which has been more 476 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: anti human rights and oppressive, the Shaw or the Iatolus. 477 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 2: Well, you know these were different eras. 478 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 3: The Shaw did the most he could do under the circumstances, 479 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 3: because you know, he was an ally of the United States. 480 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 3: There were certain limitations that he couldn't do at the time. 481 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 3: I think he did the most he could at the 482 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 3: time to put people in jail, and the Sabak was 483 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 3: created under the Shaw. Evan prison, which is the most 484 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 3: notorious prison right now in Iran was built under the Shaw. 485 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: And he did everything he could, but that was the limit. 486 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 3: Now, when the Mullas came to power, it was a 487 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 3: whole new circumstances because Romeni was using religion as a cover. 488 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 3: He was building in a network trying to transform the 489 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 3: benign Islamic groups in the region into very fanatic anti 490 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 3: American extremist groups. That's what they did, you know, from 491 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 3: Algeria to Lebanon, look at Syria, look at Iraq, how 492 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 3: they try to take advantage and so of course under 493 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 3: that situation, it gives the Malas more leverage to kill 494 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: more people. There were definitely more people killed under the Diatolas, 495 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: creating these proxy groups around the world and inventing new 496 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 3: ways of torture, even though the shots different ways of torturing. 497 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: But the Molas just basically surpassed that. 498 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 3: And that's why I think it's an opportunity for the 499 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 3: people of Iran to abandon their past and look for 500 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 3: the future. But also it's an opportunity for the West 501 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 3: because they have experienced both the Shaw's dictatorship and also 502 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 3: the current theocracy. And the answer is really a democratic, 503 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 3: free republic Iran, and what an impact it would have 504 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 3: for the whole world. 505 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: All Rasa, I want to thank you for joining me in. 506 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: I've known you a good well now and I know 507 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: how consistently you and the National Council of Resistance of 508 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: Iran have worked to create a free, independent Iran that 509 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: would be beyond the show, beyond the Iatolas be an 510 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: integrated part of the world in a positive way that 511 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: would look out and would offer the people of Iran 512 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: a dramatically better future. We're going to have on our 513 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: show page your website at ncrdash Iran dot org. Your 514 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 1: website is a daily Iran news and brief which I 515 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: recommend to people as a quick look at what is 516 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: happening each day in Iran. And I want to thank 517 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 1: you for taking the time today to help educate our listeners. 518 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 2: Well, thank you. 519 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 3: You know, I've known you for decades and you have 520 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 3: been very consistent yourself in highlighting the threat but also 521 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 3: high lighting the solution because it may be easier to 522 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 3: highlight the threat, but a lot more difficult to highlight 523 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 3: the solution. 524 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 2: But it also takes a lot of courage, and that's 525 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 2: what you had. 526 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 3: I've known you the same way when you were in 527 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,320 Speaker 3: the house and after that, and really appreciate what you're 528 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 3: doing with these shows in spreading the world, educating everybody 529 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,320 Speaker 3: and pointing everyone to the right direction. And I'm very 530 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 3: hopeful that Iran will soon be free, and we'll invite 531 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 3: you and everybody else to come and see free and 532 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 3: democratic Republic Iran. 533 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: It would be fabulous to be able to spend next 534 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: year in Tehran. 535 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 2: Absolutely looking forward. Speak here. 536 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: Thank you to my Guestresa Jefferzade. You can learn more 537 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: about the National Council Resistance of Iran on our show 538 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: page at newtsworld dot com. News World is produced by 539 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: Janush twenty sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnzi Sloan. 540 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: Our researcher is Rachel Peterson for the show was created 541 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: by Steve Penley. Special thanks the team at gager Street sixty. 542 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: If you've been enjoying newts World, I hope you'll go 543 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: to Apple Podcast and both rate us with five stars 544 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: and give us a review so others can learn what 545 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: it's all about. Right now listeners of Neutral concerner for 546 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: my three freeweekly columns at Gangerstreet sixty dot com slash newsletter. 547 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: I'm Newt Gingrich. This is neut World