Speaker 1: I'm Katie Curic and this is Abortion the Body Politic,
Speaker 1: Part six. We started this series by visiting the last
Speaker 1: abortion clinic in Missouri. That was when ROW was still intact,
Speaker 1: but even then Missouri had some of the most restrictive
Speaker 1: laws in the country. We had three patients today, and
Speaker 1: there's entire months where we aren't here at all because
Speaker 1: we can't staff this clinic. But just fifteen minutes away
Speaker 1: across the state line in southern Illinois, another clinic that
Speaker 1: we visited was already preparing for our new reality. This
Speaker 1: is an additional waiting room, so on really busy days,
Speaker 1: UM patients can also wait back here. So now that
Speaker 1: ROW has been overturned, what are things like today? We
Speaker 1: check back in with someone who works at both of
Speaker 1: these clinics to find out the impact of the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court decision before we could stand up out of our
Speaker 1: seats and moved to another room. Missourian's lost access to abortion.
Speaker 1: Dr Kelley McNicholas, I'm the chief medical officer for Planned
Speaker 1: Parenthood of the St. Louis Region in southwest Missouri. When
Speaker 1: the news hit on Friday June Dr McNicholas was in
Speaker 1: a conference room in St. Louis with Missouri Representative Corey
Speaker 1: Bush and Health in Human Services Secretary Javier B. Serra.
Speaker 1: As we were wrapping that round table, we got word
Speaker 1: that the decision had dropped in. There was, you know,
Speaker 1: a room full of incredibly dedicated folks, some of whom
Speaker 1: have spent their entire career on abortion access, hearing it
Speaker 1: all for the first time, and it certainly was emotional,
Speaker 1: and there were folks, certainly some folks were shedding tears.
Speaker 1: And before we could even get out of the room
Speaker 1: to process what was happening, we had heard that Missouri's
Speaker 1: Attorney General had in fact immediately invoked the trigger ban
Speaker 1: um in it was a bit surreal to have that
Speaker 1: experience with the Secretary of HHS in our presence um
Speaker 1: where you know, we could show him, you know, the
Speaker 1: real on the ground impact of that decision even immediately
Speaker 1: as we had to then, you know, make sure that
Speaker 1: our call center was aware of the decision and the
Speaker 1: trigger being implemented um so that as patients called, they
Speaker 1: had the right information to give to folks. We quickly
Speaker 1: regrouped and everybody, including the Secretary, headed over to the
Speaker 1: Fairview Heights Plumbic because I thought it was incredibly important
Speaker 1: for him to see the other side, to see what
Speaker 1: it was like and feel what it was like to
Speaker 1: lose access to this basic care um in one state,
Speaker 1: and then truly drive just fifteen minutes down the road
Speaker 1: across the river, as we say, UM, to a place
Speaker 1: where we were now preparing to see a flood of patients.
Speaker 1: Illinois is uniquely situated, um unlike other critical access states,
Speaker 1: as being truly a blue island in the middle of
Speaker 1: a completely red sea or what will soon be a
Speaker 1: red sea. So for us in southern Illinois, you know,
Speaker 1: we are surrounded by Missouri, Tennessee, Indiana, and then you know,
Speaker 1: as you move further south, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, these
Speaker 1: are all states that are already have banned um abortion
Speaker 1: or severely limited it, or in the coming weeks months,
Speaker 1: um we'll move to completely ban it altogether. And so
Speaker 1: you know, as we think about the public health crisis
Speaker 1: that this has now sparked, we're talking about mass mobilization
Speaker 1: of tens of thousands of people for basic abortion care,
Speaker 1: many of whom will be looking to the closest geographic area,
Speaker 1: which for lots of them will be southern Illinois. So
Speaker 1: this is the Fairview Heights Hell Center. It is an
Speaker 1: eight teen thousand square foot building. When I got a
Speaker 1: chance to tour the Illinois Clinic in May and it
Speaker 1: is built as a searge site as we call it,
Speaker 1: it was pretty clear this facility was set up for
Speaker 1: the future. So you have a few case managers who
Speaker 1: are working to navigate patients there, patients who have to
Speaker 1: deal with all the challenges of getting an abortion these days,
Speaker 1: from the cost to the travel to hotel needs, all
Speaker 1: of it can be taken care of in a phone
Speaker 1: call with one case worker. A case worker like Caroline, Alright,
Speaker 1: so you're going to transfer her over, I'll just actually
Speaker 1: need the moment. Caroline is a veteran of the Fairview
Speaker 1: Heights Health Center, having worked there for three years, first
Speaker 1: booking appointments and then moving over to the logistics center
Speaker 1: when it opened in January of no problem. So in
Speaker 1: that situation, this is a person that was previously scheduled
Speaker 1: and she was quoted a price point. This person had
Speaker 1: a cost that was I'm a five hundred and sixty dollars.
Speaker 1: She made it in clinic and her gestation was way
Speaker 1: further than what she expected. So her cost of service
Speaker 1: is extremely more than what she expected to pay. She
Speaker 1: was already needing assistance. She's only able to provide a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars towards her total cost of service.
Speaker 1: She has a balance of one thousand and thirty dollars
Speaker 1: that she'll need assistance for. Her appointment is in a
Speaker 1: few days. Of course, she can't just come up with
Speaker 1: five hundred and some more dollars. So that's why we
Speaker 1: are needed, Like I'm gonna find the funds for so
Speaker 1: she can receive the services. So that's a prime example
Speaker 1: of what's going on here. The center was designed to
Speaker 1: accommodate an increase in patience, So as you walked on
Speaker 1: the hall, there are lots of rooms that you'll see
Speaker 1: that you know are still empty, not in use, because
Speaker 1: we're going to be it's designed to scale up. Southern
Speaker 1: Illinois is expecting fourteen thousand abortion refugees from other states
Speaker 1: every year. When I visited two months ago, all the
Speaker 1: empty procedure rooms, counseling spaces, and waiting areas weren't needed yet.
Speaker 1: But Dr McNicholas says it's taken no time for the
Speaker 1: center to fill up. I'll tell you that the volume
Speaker 1: is coming, I would say, at at a faster pace
Speaker 1: than we even anticipated. So within the first seventy two
Speaker 1: hours after the decision, our way time went from about
Speaker 1: three to four days to now being already two weeks.
Speaker 1: In the last couple of days, I have started my
Speaker 1: interactions with patients by acknowledging that they've come a long
Speaker 1: way for this care. And you know, the range of
Speaker 1: responses has been anywhere from I've had no choice, um.
Speaker 1: I remember a woman from Mississippi just looked at me
Speaker 1: and said I didn't have a choice. Um. And she
Speaker 1: and then continued to say, but I'm grateful that you're here, um,
Speaker 1: to folks who just really broke down because just getting
Speaker 1: there was so difficult. Um. We're still in that phase
Speaker 1: where folks had appointments already established and on the books
Speaker 1: in their home state, right, And so some of those
Speaker 1: folks are, you know, still getting over the reality that
Speaker 1: it really was overnight that they went from being able
Speaker 1: to go down the street to now having to go
Speaker 1: hundreds of miles. The consequences of the Supreme Court decision
Speaker 1: are playing out in other ways as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: we have also seen all sorts of medications now at
Speaker 1: pharmacies being delayed or denied because of potential implications on
Speaker 1: pregnancy or miscarriage. You know, methatric state for example, to
Speaker 1: medication we routinely use for ec topic pregnancies. It's also
Speaker 1: one of the main stay therapies for folks who have
Speaker 1: lupus or arthritis, for example. So folks who have been
Speaker 1: maintaining their health with these critical medications are now also
Speaker 1: finding themselves in places where they can't even get care
Speaker 1: for non pregnancy related health care issues. Because of how
Speaker 1: broad and wide sweeping this decision is, ending access to
Speaker 1: abortion in one or multiple states was never the end goal,
Speaker 1: and we should be prepared for what the next wave
Speaker 1: of a tax looks like. Criminalization is certainly one of those,
Speaker 1: not just for folks who are having abortion, but also
Speaker 1: the folks who are providing that care. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: I think as we look to the next legislative session
Speaker 1: and we are looking to broaden our our areas of support,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a place where we're going to
Speaker 1: need to engage folks outside of our typical movement and
Speaker 1: really make sure that the fight to um to prevent
Speaker 1: some of these things is robust and in a aggressive
Speaker 1: My name is Danassessman. I am the acting executive director
Speaker 1: at National Advocates for Pregnant Women, and we are an
Speaker 1: organization that defends the civil and human rights of people
Speaker 1: who are targeted for criminalization or other state intervention because
Speaker 1: of pregnancy or because of a pregnancy outcome, including a
Speaker 1: pregnancy loss like still birth or miscarriage, abortion, or continuing
Speaker 1: a pregnancy and giving birth. One of the ways that
Speaker 1: we're trying to get prepared for this new reality is
Speaker 1: by working across disciplines. We are engaging more and more
Speaker 1: with healthcare providers, with child welfare workers, with UM, criminal
Speaker 1: defense attorneys, and even with police and prosecutors UM. Because
Speaker 1: so many of our cases originate in medical settings. We've
Speaker 1: had nurses call the police because they thought that a
Speaker 1: pregnant woman intentionally fell down a flight of stair us
Speaker 1: in order to end her pregnancy. UM. She in fact
Speaker 1: was lightheaded, fell down the flight of stairs, went to
Speaker 1: the hospital to make sure that her pregnancy was okay,
Speaker 1: that she she and her pregnancy were okay, and UM
Speaker 1: and had shared that she had contemplated having an abortion
Speaker 1: earlier on in her pregnancy. But had changed her mind
Speaker 1: her The nurse hearing that story spoke with the doctor
Speaker 1: and one of them called the police and she was
Speaker 1: charged with attempted feet aside, we understand that there will
Speaker 1: be situations in which nurses and doctors and hospital based
Speaker 1: social workers will feel like they are required to call
Speaker 1: the police. And what we're trying to do is provide
Speaker 1: more information and tools to health care workers so that
Speaker 1: they understand that they don't have to report their patients,
Speaker 1: and their obligations to their patients include minimizing harm to
Speaker 1: them and to their families, UM, which means not involving
Speaker 1: criminal law enforcement in their lives. UM. So we are
Speaker 1: focusing on interdisciplinary response and an all hands on deck
Speaker 1: response because that's sort of what's demanded in this crisis.
Speaker 1: And you know, one example that we have that we
Speaker 1: can point to is the Latti's Fisher case, which is
Speaker 1: a case we worked on in nineteen a case out
Speaker 1: of Mississippi where a woman who maintained consistently that she
Speaker 1: experiences still birth called nine one because she was experiencing
Speaker 1: a medical emergency and was deemed suspect because at some
Speaker 1: point in her pregnancy, she had googled medication abortion, um
Speaker 1: and I just think that we have very few cases
Speaker 1: to point to, but that is one, and I think
Speaker 1: very um informative of of of what we may see
Speaker 1: in the not so distant future. We've been asked a
Speaker 1: few times, you know what, what what would you advise
Speaker 1: someone who wants to get an abortion or wants to
Speaker 1: access medication abortion in a banned state? What would you
Speaker 1: advise them to do with respect to sort of getting information?
Speaker 1: And I said something along the lines of talked to
Speaker 1: as few people as possible. It's so utterly devastating to
Speaker 1: think that we are now forced to advise people to
Speaker 1: not share what they're going through with others for fear
Speaker 1: of facing criminal, criminal repercussions, not just for themselves, but
Speaker 1: maybe even for the people who helped them. I think
Speaker 1: it's not disconnected from what is also happening, which is
Speaker 1: that primarily women, but all people with the capacity for
Speaker 1: pregnancy will not be part of public life, you know that.
Speaker 1: I think about the generational impact that this could have
Speaker 1: if things don't how dramatically shift, you know, in the
Speaker 1: next round of elections. And I don't have a lot
Speaker 1: of hope. There's a lot of analysis over what having
Speaker 1: access to abortion has allowed. It allows women to stay
Speaker 1: in college, and it allows women to move to move
Speaker 1: out of poverty. And we will see a general disappearance
Speaker 1: of women from public life. And we may not see
Speaker 1: it in two years or in five years, but in
Speaker 1: twenty years or in thirty years, we will see such
Speaker 1: a dramatic shift in who is participating in public discourse,
Speaker 1: who are the people we see publicly, who is making policy.
Speaker 1: I'm mourned for that. I'm mourn for the individual people
Speaker 1: who will be impacted, but also mourned for what we
Speaker 1: will miss as a society coming up, what the public
Speaker 1: and private sectors are doing to protect abortion. I think
Speaker 1: this hashtag say abortion started with I actually believe it
Speaker 1: was Renee Bracy Sherman from We Testify started using that
Speaker 1: hashtag during the presidential debates because she noticed that none
Speaker 1: of the Democratic candidates seemed willing to actually say the
Speaker 1: word abortion, and we're instead using euphemisms to talk about abortion,
Speaker 1: so saying like uh, women's health or reproductive choice, like
Speaker 1: really skirting saying the word of abortion. My name is Caramailman.
Speaker 1: My pronouns are they and he. I am the chief
Speaker 1: research analyst for reproaction. Part of the reason it's so
Speaker 1: important to hear our politicians, like our Democratic progressive leaders
Speaker 1: say the word abortion is because our opposition isn't afraid
Speaker 1: to say the word abortion. They love to talk about
Speaker 1: abortion because they see it as a winning issue for them.
Speaker 1: And if we an abortion to become a winning issue
Speaker 1: for us, which it is that the majority of people
Speaker 1: support abortion and abortion access, we actually have to be
Speaker 1: willing to say the word Chairwoman Maloney and ranking Member Comer,
Speaker 1: thank you for inviting me to speak today. Congresswoman Pramalajaia
Speaker 1: Paul is a Democrat from Washington State. I speak to
Speaker 1: you as one of the one in four women in
Speaker 1: America who have had an abortion. She's not only one
Speaker 1: of the few politicians willing to say the word abortion,
Speaker 1: she was one of the first to share her own
Speaker 1: abortion story, first in an op ed in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: and then before Congress in I remember googling congress member
Speaker 1: abortion story to see if anybody else had talked about
Speaker 1: it at the time, and what did you find? The
Speaker 1: only person I found was Jackie Spear. Congressman Jackie Spear
Speaker 1: had on the floor of the House in really angered
Speaker 1: towards a number of comments that were being made by
Speaker 1: a Republican member. You know, I had really planned to
Speaker 1: speak about something else, but the gentleman from New Jersey
Speaker 1: has just put my stomach in knots because I'm one
Speaker 1: of those women he spoke about just now, I had
Speaker 1: a procedure at seventeen weeks. She talked about the medical
Speaker 1: necessities that she faced when she had her abortion. It
Speaker 1: was quite a different story, but it was the only
Speaker 1: time I found and so I just decided to go ahead.
Speaker 1: And um, I think the reaction was overwhelming from across
Speaker 1: the country, including from some people I didn't expect. You know,
Speaker 1: a man who identified himself as a Republican who doesn't
Speaker 1: believe in abortion, and he read it and he said,
Speaker 1: I came away with a deep respect for something you said,
Speaker 1: which is that you are not trying to tell anybody
Speaker 1: else to have an abortion, and nobody should tell you
Speaker 1: not to have one. He said, I think I have
Speaker 1: been convinced, so mission accomplished. Yes, at least for that
Speaker 1: one person. What is your reaction to what's going on
Speaker 1: in this country visa the abortion rights It is a
Speaker 1: catastrophic dismissive and demeaning uh decision that the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: has put forward. I feel outraged and fury because it
Speaker 1: isn't just and I don't say just dismissively. I had
Speaker 1: an abortion. I know what it means to be pregnant. Um,
Speaker 1: it isn't just about the nine months of pregnancy. It
Speaker 1: is actually about our agency as equal citizens to be
Speaker 1: able to control our lives. Our lives do not stop
Speaker 1: to matter the moment into conception, and I think that
Speaker 1: is the issue that we just have to keep reminding
Speaker 1: people of we are. We are part of the economic
Speaker 1: engine of this country, and we have to have the
Speaker 1: right to control our own bodies and our own futures.
Speaker 1: The US is now one of only four countries that
Speaker 1: have actively moved backwards on reproductive rights. So what does
Speaker 1: this say to other nations and how does it affect
Speaker 1: our standing in the world. We are already being seen
Speaker 1: as a country that cannot call ourselves the leader of
Speaker 1: the free world. Um, it becomes very difficult. There are
Speaker 1: fifty countries in the last twenty five years that have
Speaker 1: expanded access to abortion, and we are going in the
Speaker 1: opposite direction. We are out of sync with the American people,
Speaker 1: and we are out of sync with the world, and
Speaker 1: it really affects our ability to say that we lead anything.
Speaker 1: And let's just think about the fact that these hypocritical
Speaker 1: Republicans say that they're pro life, pro child, pro family,
Speaker 1: but every single one of them have opposed paid family leave, childcare,
Speaker 1: the child tax credit. You can go through the list.
Speaker 1: So obviously, UM, that also affects us. And I've had
Speaker 1: world leaders you know, are people in other governments saying
Speaker 1: to me, the United States is not the country we
Speaker 1: thought it was. We are going to have to take
Speaker 1: up leadership, um, because the United States is not capable
Speaker 1: of offering that. Do you think it will change? Can
Speaker 1: you bring the United States back as the world power
Speaker 1: that it once was and that it could be and
Speaker 1: should be? And my answer is yes, we can, but
Speaker 1: it does depend on the people turning out and voting
Speaker 1: for people, um, and eliminating some of these systemic barriers
Speaker 1: like the filibuster. In the time since we spoke President
Speaker 1: Biden's find an executive order on abortion rights, I'm asking
Speaker 1: the Justice Department that, much like they did in the
Speaker 1: Civil rights there, to do something, do everything in their
Speaker 1: power to protect these women seeking to invoke their rights.
Speaker 1: As of this recording, abortion is already banned in at
Speaker 1: least eight states, and President Biden doesn't have the power
Speaker 1: to restore abortion access in those states. But the Biden
Speaker 1: administration is directing doctors everywhere that if a pregnancy is
Speaker 1: causing a medical emergency, doctors are obligated to perform the
Speaker 1: life saving abortion, regardless of state law. Hospitals that don't
Speaker 1: comply could lose their Medicare status. On Twitter, conscious woman
Speaker 1: Jaia Paul thanked President Biden for signing the executive order
Speaker 1: and called on Congress to codify ROW, which would require
Speaker 1: either changing the filibuster or electing a stronger Democrat majority
Speaker 1: in the midterms. Voting is absolutely critical. Um. I also
Speaker 1: think that there are media things around providing support to
Speaker 1: UH pregnant people who are in these states that have
Speaker 1: banned abortion. That is really really important, and I hope
Speaker 1: there will be a series of actions that lead it
Speaker 1: up to voting that are about demonstrating our power in
Speaker 1: this economy. You know, I floated the idea of a
Speaker 1: national strike, and I'm working on it and let's see
Speaker 1: if we can get there. But I think it's important
Speaker 1: for people to understand we have power we have to
Speaker 1: show it. We have to assist those who are hurting
Speaker 1: right now, and we have to vote in November. While
Speaker 1: reproductive rights advocates within the public sector figure out ways
Speaker 1: to protect abortion access, Rushmasu Johnny, an activist for Paid
Speaker 1: Family Leave, told me back in March that businesses need
Speaker 1: to step up. The private center has kind of not
Speaker 1: dealt with Roving Wade and reproductive rights because I think
Speaker 1: they never thought maybe the moment would come. And so
Speaker 1: it's up to businesses to provide, you know, basically provide
Speaker 1: abortion access to their employees. Like one out of three
Speaker 1: employees will have an abortion at some point, right, so
Speaker 1: this is like the vast majority, you know, of their population.
Speaker 1: So they have to think about how they're going to
Speaker 1: actually protect support, you know what I mean, the right
Speaker 1: to choose. Like if if I'm employed and I live
Speaker 1: in Texas and that Texas is now you know, outlawed abortions,
Speaker 1: You're going to have to pay for me to get
Speaker 1: to New York City, you know what I mean, my flight,
Speaker 1: my airfare, the cost of it, you know, it is
Speaker 1: now your problem. And and I think that this is
Speaker 1: also the cost of when companies actually don't stand up
Speaker 1: and speak out, you know, and join the fight. I
Speaker 1: think we have to, you know, they have to basically
Speaker 1: play a role in making sure that this right exists
Speaker 1: for women. In fact, in the days and weeks since
Speaker 1: the road decision came down, many companies, from City Group
Speaker 1: to Yelp have responded by boosting travel reimbursement programs and
Speaker 1: creating funds that do exactly what Rushima suggested cover the
Speaker 1: costs associated with getting an abortion. The CEO of Amalgamated Bank,
Speaker 1: Priscilla Simms Brown, was one of the first to reveal
Speaker 1: such a plan. In an interview on CNBC, she explained
Speaker 1: why abortion is absolutely a corporate responsibility. We want to
Speaker 1: both hire and retain qualified women. In particular, we want
Speaker 1: to give them opportunities um and we want to deliver
Speaker 1: on our diversity and inclusion goals. These are just important
Speaker 1: issues to women, and we have taken a terrible step
Speaker 1: back for half of America's workforce. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: I think there is a short term need and then
Speaker 1: there's we need a long term strategy. Again. Here's doctor
Speaker 1: Colleen McNicholas from the Planned Parenthood Health Center and Fairview Heights, Illinois.
Speaker 1: The short term need really does have to focus on
Speaker 1: getting people from point A to point B and then
Speaker 1: back home home. And so as much as folks can
Speaker 1: utilize resources grassroots organizations UM that are on the ground
Speaker 1: doing that work, abortion funds, practical support organizations, or the
Speaker 1: Regional Logistics Center for example, who are already doing the
Speaker 1: work figuring out that infrastructure. But the long term plan
Speaker 1: um and strategy really I think needs to be around accountability.
Speaker 1: In this moment, I think it's a real opportunity for
Speaker 1: us as a movement to say, you know, all of
Speaker 1: the historic uh concessions that were made around abortion, you know,
Speaker 1: the big tent and room for everybody. You know, that
Speaker 1: approach is what got us here um. And so if
Speaker 1: we are going to rebuild a system that works for
Speaker 1: everybody and provides access to abortion throughout pregnancy where people
Speaker 1: are when they need it, we really have got to
Speaker 1: start holding people accountable. And so whether that means that,
Speaker 1: you know, we stop giving them dollars when they're running
Speaker 1: for office because they've demonstrated that in fact, they aren't
Speaker 1: going to do the things that they say. They don't
Speaker 1: understand that abortion is something we cannot compromise on, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we just have to to think about how
Speaker 1: we are holding those elected officials accountable. If we are
Speaker 1: going to rebuild better, and when we do rebuild better
Speaker 1: um and and more equitable, that it will have a
Speaker 1: um an intersectional approach, right, and that that it will
Speaker 1: truly pull in folks from all of the different justice movements,
Speaker 1: because the truth is, you know, abortion is a racial
Speaker 1: justice issue, and it is an immigrant justice issue, and
Speaker 1: it is an environmental justice issue. And so if we
Speaker 1: are to help folks reframe to understand why the ideal
Speaker 1: is abortion care when you need it, where you need it,
Speaker 1: and paid for by your either public or private insurance,
Speaker 1: they must also understand how it fits into each one
Speaker 1: of those sectors of life. As we learned in our
Speaker 1: last episode, taking a global perspective may help us navigate
Speaker 1: the long road ahead. So once again is one of
Speaker 1: the leaders of the green Weight movement in Latin America,
Speaker 1: Paula Avila Gian to those who are just starting to realizing,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the fight. Don't never feel that that you
Speaker 1: are too late. It's never too late to fight for
Speaker 1: our autonomy. Welcome it doesn't I don't, I don't care
Speaker 1: how you talk about this or if you're political correct
Speaker 1: or if you you you are just starting to learn
Speaker 1: about this subject, just welcome. We need you. We need
Speaker 1: as many people as possible because the only way to
Speaker 1: win this fight is by h adding numbers to the troops.
Speaker 1: For those who have been fighting like me for a
Speaker 1: very long time, we need to cry for a little
Speaker 1: bit because this is going to be a very uh
Speaker 1: even though we know it has been happening that is
Speaker 1: going to happen for a very long time. It's a
Speaker 1: very hard moment. It's a very dark moment. But after
Speaker 1: we cry, we need to get up. We need to
Speaker 1: wear our green wherever you have and just use it
Speaker 1: every day, and it starts showing up to every single march.
Speaker 1: Start writing to every person you know and tell them
Speaker 1: how they need to speak up. They need to use
Speaker 1: social media, they need to show up. They need to
Speaker 1: write letters to legislators. Follow all the organizations and all
Speaker 1: the work of abortion phones and on other organizations leaders
Speaker 1: to find ways how you can get involved. Sometimes showing
Speaker 1: to march this is the most powerful thing that you
Speaker 1: can do. Sometimes donate in money is the most important
Speaker 1: thing that you can do. But you need to do
Speaker 1: something about you need to take an action in this moment.
Speaker 1: We cannot have the privilege to just stay comfortable in
Speaker 1: our homes anymore. We cannot have the privilege of the silent.
Speaker 1: We need to show up. We need to learn about
Speaker 1: the consequences of this backlash, and we need to be
Speaker 1: prepared for what is coming because it's not going to
Speaker 1: be a short fight. It's going to be a long fight, unfortunately.
Speaker 1: But we need to show up and more people. Have
Speaker 1: the conversation with your mother, have the conversation with your sister,
Speaker 1: if you feel um encouraged and ready tell your abortion
Speaker 1: and story. If you um feel that you need to
Speaker 1: um write something right it and send them. Pressure the
Speaker 1: media to keep covering this issue because this is going
Speaker 1: to be in a media cycle. We are going to
Speaker 1: have some months in which everybody's going to talk about this,
Speaker 1: and then people are going to forget, and so we
Speaker 1: need to keep the pressure into our duty of all
Speaker 1: of us to make sure that nobody forgets that the
Speaker 1: next crisis doesn't not forget about this one. And to
Speaker 1: our electroficials, it's on you. This is following and it's
Speaker 1: on you to fix it. There actually are more people
Speaker 1: on the side of reproductive rights. After all, we know
Speaker 1: that the majority of Americans, as many as eight percent,
Speaker 1: believe that abortion should be legally accessible. So how can
Speaker 1: we better represent that majority? How can we bring those
Speaker 1: people out of the shadows and into the fight. We
Speaker 1: got the chance to consider these questions with someone in
Speaker 1: a group not often seen on the front lines of
Speaker 1: this issue, the topic of abortion. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: shame and secrecy around the topic in general, and particularly
Speaker 1: in Republican circles. People just won't talk, women don't talk
Speaker 1: about it. I had no idea how my even family
Speaker 1: members felt about the topic. My name is Katherine Kaufman.
Speaker 1: I am a former political appointee in the Trump administration
Speaker 1: and current mother of three in rural Lexington, Kentucky. After
Speaker 1: serving as the Minister on Gender Equity to the nineteen
Speaker 1: G seven in France, I was overwhelmed by the feeling
Speaker 1: of loss for the United States as a global leader
Speaker 1: on gender equity because of our position on sexual reproductive health.
Speaker 1: And upon returning from that experience to hear of the
Speaker 1: law in Mississippi and my own personal experience with infertility
Speaker 1: and IVF, I published an OpEd in The Washington Post
Speaker 1: calling for Republicans to find our voice and speak out
Speaker 1: in favor of women's rights and support of global gender equity.
Speaker 1: When I published that op ed, I was advised by
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who's in the space, to go
Speaker 1: dark on basically everything you know social media, don't check
Speaker 1: your email, don't ever open something that you don't know
Speaker 1: you know, make sure your address is in public. And
Speaker 1: the White House published their own response, and I was
Speaker 1: personally attacked by people in the White House at the time,
Speaker 1: But other than those extreme individuals, I was overwhelmed with
Speaker 1: love and support. I had thousands of responses, all positive
Speaker 1: direct to me. Yes, I believe you, Yes, I'm with you,
Speaker 1: this is exactly where we need to be. This is
Speaker 1: how I feel, This is how my mother feels, this
Speaker 1: is how my sister feels. But very few of those
Speaker 1: people wanted to share that on a public platform. And
Speaker 1: I have yet to meet someone in the Republican Party
Speaker 1: who hasn't been willing to have a conversation with me
Speaker 1: about a different platform, like a mother and child platform
Speaker 1: that brings civility back to the conversation and lets us
Speaker 1: connect as humans, men and women who they truly do.
Speaker 1: Even my father who um, you know, is the treasurer
Speaker 1: for the r n C and is the most loyal
Speaker 1: Republican out there. He's out He'll say, well, I am
Speaker 1: pro life, but you know, after our woman has been
Speaker 1: told our options and spoken to the doctor, of course,
Speaker 1: that eats her choice. You know, Like, well, dad, that's
Speaker 1: always And so when you say are you an outline
Speaker 1: in the Republican Party because you're pro choice, I've really
Speaker 1: tried to define myself as someone who's pro mother and child,
Speaker 1: who um, you know, just has a deep compassion for
Speaker 1: both pregnant women and children that need support, and I
Speaker 1: think it's an easier way to talk about it. I
Speaker 1: don't think that you can have gender equity or claim
Speaker 1: to have an equitable country without full sexual reproductive health rights.
Speaker 1: That's where I've landed on that topic. Um. But I'm
Speaker 1: not as pessimistic on the legislation being black and white,
Speaker 1: that being impossible for us to come to good legislation
Speaker 1: that does represent both the miracle of life and the
Speaker 1: complexities of birth. I think sometimes we think we're pushed
Speaker 1: to these polar opposites, and that's just politics, and that's
Speaker 1: just the country we live in, and we kind of
Speaker 1: give up a little bit, and I actually think that
Speaker 1: we can really use our common sense. The polling is
Speaker 1: actually really encouraging. I mean, there's probably not an issue
Speaker 1: Americans actually agree on as much as we do, as
Speaker 1: you know, of us think abortion should be legal, which
Speaker 1: is again reflective of how poor job the labels do
Speaker 1: of reflecting our position, because then only fifty five still
Speaker 1: a clear majority. But if only of Americans claim that
Speaker 1: they're pro choice but believe abortion, so it's it's all.
Speaker 1: There is a middle. And I think if we did
Speaker 1: take the time to educated ourselves on what is actually
Speaker 1: needed for for true gender equity, if we look at
Speaker 1: the outcome that we're trying to get to rather than
Speaker 1: just and my pro life approach choice, what is the
Speaker 1: outcome that we want. We want less abortions, we want
Speaker 1: you know, full equity. We want to take care of
Speaker 1: the children that are alive and languishing in our foster
Speaker 1: care system, which by the ways, I think upwards of
Speaker 1: four and twenty four thousand. We don't want women to
Speaker 1: die giving birth, and yet we're the only developed country
Speaker 1: in the world where maternal mortality is on the rise.
Speaker 1: And these things are to me, this is all very
Speaker 1: clearly connected, and we have to focus our attention to
Speaker 1: the output that we really want, which is are there
Speaker 1: more loved, safe and secure children with safe, healthy mother
Speaker 1: in a country that cares for all of them? And
Speaker 1: it's a much better question to get to and what
Speaker 1: are the policies we need to put in place to
Speaker 1: get to that outcome. This fight not only needs more people,
Speaker 1: but new tools of engagement, tools like TikTok. My name
Speaker 1: is Olivia Juliana Olivia Juliana on All Socials, and I'm
Speaker 1: a nineteen year old political strategist and abortion rights activists
Speaker 1: from deep in the heart of Texas, and I'm most
Speaker 1: well known for abortion advocacy work and working for the
Speaker 1: organization called gen Z for Change. Olivia's TikTok platform and
Speaker 1: others like it has helped shift the abortion right side
Speaker 1: of the fight from playing defense to playing offense. Last year,
Speaker 1: tax has passed what's known as Sentabill eight, which at
Speaker 1: the time was the most restrictive abortion band in the country,
Speaker 1: and it was civilian forced, so civilians and private citizens
Speaker 1: could now try to enforces against each other. I thought
Speaker 1: it was a blatant violation of privacy and I thought
Speaker 1: it was blatantly unconstitutional. So as upset, and then I
Speaker 1: saw Texas Right to Life, which is an anti choice
Speaker 1: or pro life organization, put out a tipline that was
Speaker 1: made with the intention of allowing people to report abortion
Speaker 1: providers or people who have helped someone get an abortion
Speaker 1: past the six week mark in the state of Texas,
Speaker 1: and I was I was annoyed because these are the
Speaker 1: same people that are constantly complaining and calling things orwellian
Speaker 1: and saying like, oh, this is like N four, But
Speaker 1: now they're trying to incentivize people to report their neighbors
Speaker 1: for health care procedures that they've made about their in
Speaker 1: choices they've made for their own bodies. So as a
Speaker 1: young person his proficient in the Internet, I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's no way that they can tell if
Speaker 1: these tips are true or not or authentic. And so
Speaker 1: the year previously, TikTok and gen Z had kind of
Speaker 1: taken this approach to reserve tickets to a Trump event
Speaker 1: and then not go. So with that idea, I was like,
Speaker 1: we should do the same thing with this tip line.
Speaker 1: So I'm in a video on TikTok encouraging people to
Speaker 1: go leave a quote very authentic tip because I would
Speaker 1: never encourage people to be dishonest um, and it just
Speaker 1: blew up from their Other TikTokers jumped on the same thing.
Speaker 1: And one of my good friends who's also our digital
Speaker 1: strategy associated gen Z but Change, Seawan Wiggs. He created
Speaker 1: a olde that you could run on your computer and
Speaker 1: it would just constantly send tips to this tipline and
Speaker 1: it just kept going and going and going, and eventually
Speaker 1: the tipline website crashed and it couldn't be used anymore.
Speaker 1: And then once that happened, the public caught on even
Speaker 1: more and the host eventually dropped the site. So to
Speaker 1: this day that tipline is gone, like it's not been
Speaker 1: put back up again, and right to life as an
Speaker 1: organization that has branches in every stag across the country,
Speaker 1: and to this point we have not seen another tip
Speaker 1: line of that nature pop up in any other state.
Speaker 1: I think gen Z is really unique because not only
Speaker 1: are we like writing and willing to march in the
Speaker 1: streets and go out and vote for pro choice champions,
Speaker 1: but we also know how to utilize digital tools in
Speaker 1: the Internet to fight back against oppressive things as well.
Speaker 1: I always say people ask me like, is social media good?
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it a new is it like a
Speaker 1: blatant good that we can use for things? And in
Speaker 1: the abortion rights area, I find that it has been
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly used for good. It's been used to share resources,
Speaker 1: it's been used to uplift calls to action for specific things.
Speaker 1: In Texas, a woman was arrested on a murder charge
Speaker 1: for having what was called a spontaneous abortion, and the
Speaker 1: call to action was to call the sheriff and the
Speaker 1: district attorneys in Star County and demand that she'd be released.
Speaker 1: Because we were able to boost that action on social media,
Speaker 1: we had calls and emails coming from across the country.
Speaker 1: I think my videos about the specific event got upwards
Speaker 1: of five hundred thousand views, and um she was eventually
Speaker 1: released because the district attorney decided not to proceed with
Speaker 1: the charm riges and they just connected the email and
Speaker 1: the phone lines. So I think it's just something that
Speaker 1: we've been blessed to be able to have in this fight.
Speaker 1: And I also think that we are more inclusive in
Speaker 1: terms of I think we're seeing younger and younger people
Speaker 1: getting invested in this fight. I think like we think
Speaker 1: young people people think like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years old.
Speaker 1: I've been in events where I've seen ten year olds
Speaker 1: speak about abortion access and other issues like this. And
Speaker 1: I also think it's important because of inclusivity in terms of, like,
Speaker 1: it's not just women who have abortions, it's also transgender
Speaker 1: and non binary people as well. And I think that
Speaker 1: my generation has done a really good job of scoping
Speaker 1: out the intersection ng communities and identities that will be
Speaker 1: affected by these problems. And I think a large part
Speaker 1: of that is social media and different can communities that
Speaker 1: are kind of coming together around these collective actions. So
Speaker 1: I think it's a really unique thing that we've kind
Speaker 1: of been afforded, and I think that it's genuinely going
Speaker 1: to help us going forward in terms of continuing to
Speaker 1: do this work. A nineteen I shouldn't be having to
Speaker 1: organize and rally against elected officials and Supreme Court justices.
Speaker 1: I should be at parties and spending my parents money
Speaker 1: buying cute clothes, and yeah, here we are. So it's
Speaker 1: it's a very bitter sweet because I feel like a
Speaker 1: lot of us have been robbed of our youth. But
Speaker 1: I also am very grateful. Um. That's so many young
Speaker 1: people have kind of answered the call to side back
Speaker 1: against these kinds of things. I wouldn't change age the
Speaker 1: direction of my life now. My life has been changed
Speaker 1: by activism work and by working with other young organizers.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's a sentiment that a lot
Speaker 1: of us share is it's difficult, it's tiring, it's overwhelming,
Speaker 1: but it's also extremely rewarding to know that you're not
Speaker 1: alone in fighting for these kinds of things. When we
Speaker 1: come back, when your abortion goes viral. What we can
Speaker 1: learn from Busy Phillips road from act to activists. That's
Speaker 1: right after this, and I thought, well, I'm here now,
Speaker 1: like I have this nightly thing and we need to
Speaker 1: we need to do something. Busy Phillips is a great
Speaker 1: example of the impact pop culture and social media can
Speaker 1: have on making the personal political. She's become a prominent
Speaker 1: and reliable presence in the abortion activism ACE in the
Speaker 1: last few years, headlining a talk with Planned Parenthood president
Speaker 1: Alexis McGill johnson at south By Southwest. So very chill
Speaker 1: time to be talking about this in Texas. Now, let's
Speaker 1: intact the yeah yeah and getting arrested outside the steps
Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court after row was overturned. For you, guys,
Speaker 1: Busy had an abortion when she was fifteen and living
Speaker 1: in Arizona. She shared her story publicly in her memoir
Speaker 1: This Will only hurt a little. Everyone in the press
Speaker 1: like sort of focused on James Franco, which is like
Speaker 1: such an I roll to me, because I'd like written
Speaker 1: this whole book about what my experience as a woman
Speaker 1: in this specific time in this industry was. And then
Speaker 1: every single headline like around the world was like actress
Speaker 1: Busy Phillips, bashist James Franco and new memoir, And I
Speaker 1: was like, guys, I mean the book is literally almost
Speaker 1: four pages. There is half a paragraph about what happened
Speaker 1: between me and James, which we've talked about publicly before together.
Speaker 1: Calm down, Welcome to the world of clickbase. But I
Speaker 1: felt like a little bit like I got away with it,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't have to talk about my abortion in
Speaker 1: that way. I didn't get click baited with the abortion.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, great, like, did that got
Speaker 1: to tell my story? It'll matter to the people who
Speaker 1: read it, it it won't matter to other people. I won't
Speaker 1: get all this stuff the blowback from it. I did it,
Speaker 1: and then these extreme abortion bands started happening, and I thought, well,
Speaker 1: I want to say something on my late night show.
Speaker 1: Part of the reason why I even wanted to have
Speaker 1: one was because there are certain things that I really
Speaker 1: believe like and we had seen. I had seen I'm
Speaker 1: friends with Jimmy and Molly Kimmel, and I had seen
Speaker 1: how Jimmy was really moved by what their son Billy
Speaker 1: went through, and like really their realization of what the
Speaker 1: health care liamscape is for people in this country, and
Speaker 1: how he he was like, I can't just stand by.
Speaker 1: I have to say something about this, and really used
Speaker 1: that opportunity and it made a big difference. It did.
Speaker 1: It was pretty moving and profound what he did. And
Speaker 1: I thought, well, I'm here now, like I have this
Speaker 1: nightly thing and we need to we need to do something. Well, listen,
Speaker 1: I have to say something um here at busy tonight.
Speaker 1: You know, we tend not to be overtly political, but
Speaker 1: you know, as it turns out, I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: be like a woman in the world is political. And
Speaker 1: so Brian Kemp, the governor of Orga, was going to
Speaker 1: sign their extreme abortion ban into law, and that was
Speaker 1: I had spoken with a bunch of people in the
Speaker 1: reprayer rights space and we decided, we had decided before
Speaker 1: that even happened, that we would wait until he did
Speaker 1: that and then I would talk about it on the show.
Speaker 1: The statistic is one and four women will have an
Speaker 1: abortion before age, and that statistics sometimes surprises people. And
Speaker 1: maybe you're sitting there and thinking, I don't know a
Speaker 1: woman who would have an abortion. Well, you know me,
Speaker 1: I had an abortion when I was fifteen years old.
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you this because I'm genuinely really scared
Speaker 1: for women and girls. People that you love have had abortions,
Speaker 1: whether they're talking about it or not. And then yeah,
Speaker 1: the hashtag was Tina phase idea, you know, largely based
Speaker 1: off of the Rondo Burt's me Too hashtag, which was
Speaker 1: kind of amazing, I mean kind of you know, a phenomenon.
Speaker 1: And I I was very hesitant about that, about jumping
Speaker 1: into that because first of all, I like, as a
Speaker 1: white woman, I'm always trying to be aware of co
Speaker 1: opting spaces where people have been doing work for a
Speaker 1: long time. And then I'm like, Hi, but I'm in
Speaker 1: the face of this now, thanks, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So I was a little hesitant. But then I was
Speaker 1: at dinner with my friends Jenny and Goldie and yeah,
Speaker 1: Alabama passed that law, and I was so angry and
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm doing it. I'm just gonna I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do it. And we wrote the tweet at the table,
Speaker 1: and I was like, there's so nervous, so nervous. I
Speaker 1: don't want what if it's like becomes oh god, what
Speaker 1: if I get trolled? Like I just had all of
Speaker 1: those feelings. I pressed and we finished our wine and
Speaker 1: dinner and I was like, I'm not going to look
Speaker 1: at this again tonight. I'm not just I'm not. And
Speaker 1: then I think it was the next day somebody called me.
Speaker 1: I was like, do you know how many people are
Speaker 1: doing this? And it's everywhere. It's on Facebook, it's on Instagram.
Speaker 1: I was like, what, that's amazing, that's so great. And
Speaker 1: I had literally like women coming up to me while
Speaker 1: I was crossing the street in Los Angeles, like running
Speaker 1: up to tell me, like to thank me, and to
Speaker 1: say I had an abortion. Oh my god, I'm so grateful.
Speaker 1: I'm able to say it because I don't feel anything
Speaker 1: about it. I'm just so glad I get to say it.
Speaker 1: And I sat next to a woman on the plane
Speaker 1: who was a mom of three who had had a
Speaker 1: very wanted pregnancy that she had to have an abortion
Speaker 1: because of things that were very medically it was medically
Speaker 1: necessary abortion, and said, you know, I went through this alone.
Speaker 1: No one at work went knew what I was going through,
Speaker 1: a lot of my family didn't, a lot of my
Speaker 1: friends didn't. And I felt so alone and so sad
Speaker 1: because I had such shame about it, because I was
Speaker 1: afraid that people would judge me. And I wrote my
Speaker 1: whole story like the day after your talk show thing,
Speaker 1: I saw it on TV. I wrote this whole post
Speaker 1: on Facebook and I can't tell you like how free
Speaker 1: I feel now. And I was just like, well yeah.
Speaker 1: By June, a few weeks after going viral with her
Speaker 1: you know me hashtag, my name is Busy Phillips, Busy
Speaker 1: testified before Congress abortion is healthcare and should not be
Speaker 1: treated as different from any other healthcare. I am so
Speaker 1: sad that we have to sit here in front of
Speaker 1: a row of politicians and give deeply personal statements because
Speaker 1: the why doesn't matter. It should not matter. I'm here
Speaker 1: today because I stand by the decision that I made
Speaker 1: when I was fifteen years old. I am here today
Speaker 1: because my platform has allowed me to connect with thousands
Speaker 1: and thousands of people around the country that you represent
Speaker 1: who have made the same choice I have made, but
Speaker 1: who will not all get the same chance to talk
Speaker 1: to you directly. I had a real like bright spot
Speaker 1: right after I had testified before Congress because um, one
Speaker 1: of the women from Planned Parenthood told me that, uh,
Speaker 1: after the you know me like hashtag thing went viral
Speaker 1: and people were really sharing their abortion stories, that the
Speaker 1: approval rating for abortion went up. It's always the majority
Speaker 1: of people, but it goes, it hovers, that goes between
Speaker 1: you know, like seventy five and like eighty five percent,
Speaker 1: And it was like at an all time ten year
Speaker 1: high right after that, and I was like, that's cool.
Speaker 1: People are talking about this in a way that humanizes, right,
Speaker 1: and they're sharing their experiences very plainly. And no one's
Speaker 1: experience is more valid than anyone else's. Because I was
Speaker 1: fifteen and it was an unwanted pregnancy is no more
Speaker 1: valid than a woman who has to has a very
Speaker 1: wanted pregnancy and has to have a medical you know,
Speaker 1: intervention abortion, or a person who's had three children, and
Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, I thought I was going
Speaker 1: through menopause. Here's ship Okay, I'm gonna an abortion. Like
Speaker 1: the reason why doesn't matter, right, Like, you're allowed to
Speaker 1: have control over your body and what's happening in it.
Speaker 1: And so that really crystallized for me that the piece
Speaker 1: that has been missing the whole time is the message,
Speaker 1: is the being vocal, is saying just practice saying it, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I had an abortion last week. I had an abortion
Speaker 1: when I was fifteen. I had an abortion when I
Speaker 1: was fifteen. Practice saying it without any judgment on yourself
Speaker 1: or anyone else. Oh yeah, she know she had an
Speaker 1: abortion last year. I think when right? That was like,
Speaker 1: may right, Okay, Suresha. We've been allowed, like we've we've
Speaker 1: allowed the other side to control a narrative about our
Speaker 1: bodies for so long. We've allowed them to tell us
Speaker 1: what's shameful. We've allowed them to scream at us and
Speaker 1: tell us that we did this as if our boyfriends
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. And I'm not ashamed
Speaker 1: that I was born with a uterus and ovariase I'm
Speaker 1: not ashamed of my humanity, and the idea that we
Speaker 1: should be as women, that we should be as people
Speaker 1: with uteruses is absurd. I feel like in the country genre,
Speaker 1: there's just not a lot of people representing for the
Speaker 1: folks of us that do believe that we should have
Speaker 1: bodily and family autonomy. Amanda Shires is a Nashville based
Speaker 1: singer songwriter who has used her music to process her
Speaker 1: own abortion, but also to infiltrate an industry and an
Speaker 1: audience that hasn't exactly cotton to a conversation about reproductive rights.
Speaker 1: Some people hear music and they don't really pay attention
Speaker 1: to the words too much, and they really like the song,
Speaker 1: so they might download it. Then they might read the
Speaker 1: words and they're like, oh, so you can get in
Speaker 1: to to somebody's mind a little bit in And then
Speaker 1: Amanda released two versions of a song. One was called
Speaker 1: Our Problem, the other The Problem. I started writing that
Speaker 1: song after I had an abortion. My friend um at
Speaker 1: the time that took me, she didn't have the same
Speaker 1: views as I did about it, you know. And then
Speaker 1: I found that out, you know, as I was going
Speaker 1: through this, as I was like calling to make an appointment,
Speaker 1: then they put you on the waiting period, and then
Speaker 1: you go and then they do the consultation and it's oh,
Speaker 1: all so many steps and she sees, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of this process and and in the end what stuck,
Speaker 1: what stuck with me was that she, despite her differences
Speaker 1: at the time, she she was on my side. So
Speaker 1: that's where the idea started. Are you feeling well, are
Speaker 1: you gonna tell how long have you know? I tell
Speaker 1: you something wrong? Just to be a week? So you
Speaker 1: tell them? Man and broke get all our problem is?
Speaker 1: Um is a is a story of the group of
Speaker 1: girls sitting around discussing somebody else's abortion. I wanted it
Speaker 1: to be in many voices because when I was going
Speaker 1: through this, I didn't realize that there were more people
Speaker 1: that had been through this, you know. So I was
Speaker 1: writing thinking like, I wish there was more people that
Speaker 1: felt okay talking about it more candidly. And I think
Speaker 1: that hearing different voice tones, like touches, different frequencies, and
Speaker 1: then having the like camaraderie or the divine feminine collaboration,
Speaker 1: all that together kind of amplifies the message and also
Speaker 1: makes people feel like, you know, I'm not a bad
Speaker 1: Peron and you know, and and that's what people need
Speaker 1: to know, rememberca why he dropped. I also wrote a
Speaker 1: version with Jason, my husband, about it, and UM, I
Speaker 1: got to the idea of the you know, me and
Speaker 1: Jason talking about it, you know, from our perspective, but
Speaker 1: also where you know, I had to make it rhyme,
Speaker 1: so some of the details aren't exactly right what you want.
Speaker 1: I'm scared to even say. This has been the hardest.
Speaker 1: He I thought that, you know, including him because his
Speaker 1: platform is bigger, and because he has the same views
Speaker 1: on it as I do. He was willing, and I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, like we always think that telling telling our truth,
Speaker 1: maybe if it changed one mind or maybe inspired conversations. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's all helpful, you know. I just think that UM
Speaker 1: or thought and still think that. UM. It's it's important
Speaker 1: for for um everybody to be talking and helping as
Speaker 1: best they can. It's important for you know, white men
Speaker 1: to say I believe that you should have rights over
Speaker 1: your body. Also, you know, and you know, in some
Speaker 1: ways that song was hard to sing. When Jason sings
Speaker 1: with me, I felt like I could sing it better,
Speaker 1: you know, like, Okay, I don't have to stand up
Speaker 1: here and wait for somebody to throw something at me.
Speaker 1: Jason's right here, you know, um, because you know, sometimes
Speaker 1: you don't know who you're gonna wind up singing too,
Speaker 1: and sometimes it just takes a little bit more backbone
Speaker 1: and you find that in your friends, for your family.
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. And there was just an
Speaker 1: outpouring of people sharing their stories everywhere from you know,
Speaker 1: age thirteen to eight, and I was just flooded with
Speaker 1: with like warmth and like like a sense of belonging.
Speaker 1: It was. So it was touching, is what it was.
Speaker 1: And it was also healing. I would do it all
Speaker 1: over every every day if it was Groundhog's Day. So
Speaker 1: I do hate that not not more folks are using
Speaker 1: you know, their platforms too, you know, to help and
Speaker 1: to teach their fan base. Not teach their fan base,
Speaker 1: but kind of like just say something, because even if
Speaker 1: you could change one mind, you never know. I've been
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about rage and pleasure and action. I
Speaker 1: think that it is really important for women and non
Speaker 1: biners people in general like me who have been trained
Speaker 1: away from their rage to reunite with it in healthy ways,
Speaker 1: like the song we Won't Go Back, just using like
Speaker 1: heavy drums and guitar and so to to conjure up
Speaker 1: that that feeling in me so I could recognize it,
Speaker 1: embrace it and then UM find ways of building pleasure
Speaker 1: in my body so I can come to a state
Speaker 1: of clarity so that I know how to act, because
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's fair to expect from ourselves
Speaker 1: UH solutions and action items when we are still in
Speaker 1: a rage slash numb cycle. You know, we have to
Speaker 1: we have to take care of ourselves so we can
Speaker 1: be the best tools for change. My name is Connie
Speaker 1: Limb and I go by the artist's named milk UM.
Speaker 1: It's spelled m I l c K and yes, like
Speaker 1: the substance that women create to nourish the next generation
Speaker 1: and for non binaries as well. We Won't Go Back
Speaker 1: is essentially a battle cry that is completely written, produced
Speaker 1: and performed by women and non binary people. UM. I
Speaker 1: am so proud of this project because it is turning
Speaker 1: an anxiety and a fear into something powerful UM that
Speaker 1: I hope can help energize people as we continue to
Speaker 1: find ways to work through our burnout and work through
Speaker 1: our disappointment and our hurt and you know, work towards
Speaker 1: sustainable change. I happened to be in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: I landed the day um after the political article leaked,
Speaker 1: so I happened to take the train into d C
Speaker 1: for something entirely different. But when I set my luggage
Speaker 1: down in my hotel room, I had two choices. I
Speaker 1: had the choice of either to like lie down on
Speaker 1: that very comfortable looking bed and get some room service,
Speaker 1: or take the lift and go to the Supreme Court
Speaker 1: and just soak in the energy of the people and
Speaker 1: our reaction to this potential overturning of Roe v. Wade.
Speaker 1: When I was at the protest in front of the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, I started filming everything because I felt like
Speaker 1: I was witnessing something historic. Um and the chance of
Speaker 1: the people were very clear and very powerful. And the
Speaker 1: the chant that really got me to have my voice
Speaker 1: leap out of my own chest was we won't go back.
Speaker 1: And that chant just like brought chills down my back.
Speaker 1: So I went back to my hotel room, I rewatched
Speaker 1: the videos just to kind of take in the day
Speaker 1: and reflect, and then that chant came up on my
Speaker 1: photos app and I listened to it, and immediately the
Speaker 1: whole idea of the song just rushed through me. What
Speaker 1: I do should be my own juice. We won't will go,
Speaker 1: we will, we will, we will, we will, And then
Speaker 1: I count. I had to test and to see what
Speaker 1: the rhythm was, and so when I tapped out the tempo,
Speaker 1: it was actually one and twenty beats per minute, and
Speaker 1: one per minute is a really popular metric because it
Speaker 1: is the um the average rate of the heart beating.
Speaker 1: And so all the lyrics and the melodies, ideas the drums,
Speaker 1: the guitar, all of that started flooding out and I
Speaker 1: didn't completely finish the song, and I had an ideas like,
Speaker 1: why don't I make this fun? And so I posted
Speaker 1: instrumental parts of the song and invited people to write
Speaker 1: their lyrics. And the reason why I wanted to do
Speaker 1: that was because in times where we feel powerless, creativity
Speaker 1: is a really safe container for us to actice creation
Speaker 1: and to practice agency. I got tons of lyrics, and
Speaker 1: there was one particular lyric that stood up to me
Speaker 1: from a fan, which is the opening line of the
Speaker 1: song is my body is a revolution because the current
Speaker 1: law is going to make voices feel less safe to
Speaker 1: tell their stories. That's when I clean on music. I
Speaker 1: had to protest secretly in my own home because the
Speaker 1: ideas I had just were too radical for my traditional
Speaker 1: family at that time, and I found that writing music
Speaker 1: helped me um disguise my truth and help me express them.
Speaker 1: I feel that community is more important than ever, like
Speaker 1: actual real friendship, so that we can privately share our
Speaker 1: stories if we don't feel safe, and I hope that
Speaker 1: we can just keep our eyes and ears open of
Speaker 1: who we can be witnesses for. This entire song was
Speaker 1: made with love by women and non binary individuals with
Speaker 1: such a pure um intention of reclaiming our power and
Speaker 1: witnessing ourselves in our power. So when people listen to this,
Speaker 1: I hope that they want to listen to it again
Speaker 1: because it makes them feel physically and emotionally good and rejuvenated. UM,
Speaker 1: because this is gonna be um an intense journey of
Speaker 1: resilience and persistence. So I just hope that this song
Speaker 1: is like kind of like a snack in the middle
Speaker 1: of the day, helps bring a jolt of energy when
Speaker 1: you purchase We Won't Go Back. Of the proceeds go
Speaker 1: to the yellow Hammer Fond and Planned Parenthood. This is
Speaker 1: the final official episode of Abortion The Body Politics. Thank
Speaker 1: you all so much for listening to this series. There's
Speaker 1: so much more to say about this topic, and if
Speaker 1: you subscribe to my podcast, Next Question with Katie Couric,
Speaker 1: you can keep up with any updates and interviews that
Speaker 1: come up over the summer and in my next sixth season.
Speaker 1: We do have a bonus episode of this series releasing
Speaker 1: next week. So many people generously shared their abortion stories
Speaker 1: in the making of this podcast, and we wanted to
Speaker 1: end with their voices. You'll hear some familiar ones. Busy
Speaker 1: Philip shares her abortion story, as does Congresswoman Jaia Paul
Speaker 1: and Gloria Steinem. In the descriptions of all of these episodes,
Speaker 1: we've listed resources and ways you can help, not to
Speaker 1: mention things you can do to continue the fight. Abortion
Speaker 1: The Body Politic is executive produced by me Katie Couric
Speaker 1: and was created by small team led by our intrepid
Speaker 1: supervising producer Lauren Hansen. Editing and sound designed by Derrick Clements,
Speaker 1: researched by Nina Perlman. Production helped this week from Mary
Speaker 1: Do and a shout out to the Aspen Ideas Festival
Speaker 1: for letting me record in their studios. While I was there,
Speaker 1: And finally a special thank you to Casey M producers
Speaker 1: Sam Phalon, Courtney Litz, and Adriana Fasio.