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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Curic and this is Abortion the Body Politic,

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Speaker 1: Part six. We started this series by visiting the last

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Speaker 1: abortion clinic in Missouri. That was when ROW was still intact,

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Speaker 1: but even then Missouri had some of the most restrictive

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Speaker 1: laws in the country. We had three patients today, and

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Speaker 1: there's entire months where we aren't here at all because

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Speaker 1: we can't staff this clinic. But just fifteen minutes away

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Speaker 1: across the state line in southern Illinois, another clinic that

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Speaker 1: we visited was already preparing for our new reality. This

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Speaker 1: is an additional waiting room, so on really busy days,

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Speaker 1: UM patients can also wait back here. So now that

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Speaker 1: ROW has been overturned, what are things like today? We

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Speaker 1: check back in with someone who works at both of

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Speaker 1: these clinics to find out the impact of the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court decision before we could stand up out of our

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Speaker 1: seats and moved to another room. Missourian's lost access to abortion.

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Speaker 1: Dr Kelley McNicholas, I'm the chief medical officer for Planned

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Speaker 1: Parenthood of the St. Louis Region in southwest Missouri. When

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Speaker 1: the news hit on Friday June Dr McNicholas was in

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Speaker 1: a conference room in St. Louis with Missouri Representative Corey

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Speaker 1: Bush and Health in Human Services Secretary Javier B. Serra.

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Speaker 1: As we were wrapping that round table, we got word

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Speaker 1: that the decision had dropped in. There was, you know,

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Speaker 1: a room full of incredibly dedicated folks, some of whom

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Speaker 1: have spent their entire career on abortion access, hearing it

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Speaker 1: all for the first time, and it certainly was emotional,

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Speaker 1: and there were folks, certainly some folks were shedding tears.

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Speaker 1: And before we could even get out of the room

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Speaker 1: to process what was happening, we had heard that Missouri's

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Speaker 1: Attorney General had in fact immediately invoked the trigger ban

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Speaker 1: um in it was a bit surreal to have that

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Speaker 1: experience with the Secretary of HHS in our presence um

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Speaker 1: where you know, we could show him, you know, the

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Speaker 1: real on the ground impact of that decision even immediately

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Speaker 1: as we had to then, you know, make sure that

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Speaker 1: our call center was aware of the decision and the

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Speaker 1: trigger being implemented um so that as patients called, they

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Speaker 1: had the right information to give to folks. We quickly

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Speaker 1: regrouped and everybody, including the Secretary, headed over to the

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Speaker 1: Fairview Heights Plumbic because I thought it was incredibly important

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Speaker 1: for him to see the other side, to see what

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Speaker 1: it was like and feel what it was like to

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Speaker 1: lose access to this basic care um in one state,

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Speaker 1: and then truly drive just fifteen minutes down the road

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Speaker 1: across the river, as we say, UM, to a place

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Speaker 1: where we were now preparing to see a flood of patients.

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Speaker 1: Illinois is uniquely situated, um unlike other critical access states,

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Speaker 1: as being truly a blue island in the middle of

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Speaker 1: a completely red sea or what will soon be a

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Speaker 1: red sea. So for us in southern Illinois, you know,

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Speaker 1: we are surrounded by Missouri, Tennessee, Indiana, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: as you move further south, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, Texas, these

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Speaker 1: are all states that are already have banned um abortion

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Speaker 1: or severely limited it, or in the coming weeks months,

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Speaker 1: um we'll move to completely ban it altogether. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, as we think about the public health crisis

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Speaker 1: that this has now sparked, we're talking about mass mobilization

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Speaker 1: of tens of thousands of people for basic abortion care,

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Speaker 1: many of whom will be looking to the closest geographic area,

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Speaker 1: which for lots of them will be southern Illinois. So

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Speaker 1: this is the Fairview Heights Hell Center. It is an

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Speaker 1: eight teen thousand square foot building. When I got a

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Speaker 1: chance to tour the Illinois Clinic in May and it

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Speaker 1: is built as a searge site as we call it,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty clear this facility was set up for

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Speaker 1: the future. So you have a few case managers who

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Speaker 1: are working to navigate patients there, patients who have to

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Speaker 1: deal with all the challenges of getting an abortion these days,

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Speaker 1: from the cost to the travel to hotel needs, all

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Speaker 1: of it can be taken care of in a phone

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Speaker 1: call with one case worker. A case worker like Caroline, Alright,

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Speaker 1: so you're going to transfer her over, I'll just actually

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Speaker 1: need the moment. Caroline is a veteran of the Fairview

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Speaker 1: Heights Health Center, having worked there for three years, first

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Speaker 1: booking appointments and then moving over to the logistics center

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Speaker 1: when it opened in January of no problem. So in

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Speaker 1: that situation, this is a person that was previously scheduled

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Speaker 1: and she was quoted a price point. This person had

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Speaker 1: a cost that was I'm a five hundred and sixty dollars.

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Speaker 1: She made it in clinic and her gestation was way

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Speaker 1: further than what she expected. So her cost of service

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Speaker 1: is extremely more than what she expected to pay. She

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Speaker 1: was already needing assistance. She's only able to provide a

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars towards her total cost of service.

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Speaker 1: She has a balance of one thousand and thirty dollars

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Speaker 1: that she'll need assistance for. Her appointment is in a

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Speaker 1: few days. Of course, she can't just come up with

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Speaker 1: five hundred and some more dollars. So that's why we

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Speaker 1: are needed, Like I'm gonna find the funds for so

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Speaker 1: she can receive the services. So that's a prime example

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Speaker 1: of what's going on here. The center was designed to

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Speaker 1: accommodate an increase in patience, So as you walked on

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Speaker 1: the hall, there are lots of rooms that you'll see

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Speaker 1: that you know are still empty, not in use, because

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Speaker 1: we're going to be it's designed to scale up. Southern

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Speaker 1: Illinois is expecting fourteen thousand abortion refugees from other states

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Speaker 1: every year. When I visited two months ago, all the

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Speaker 1: empty procedure rooms, counseling spaces, and waiting areas weren't needed yet.

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Speaker 1: But Dr McNicholas says it's taken no time for the

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Speaker 1: center to fill up. I'll tell you that the volume

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Speaker 1: is coming, I would say, at at a faster pace

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Speaker 1: than we even anticipated. So within the first seventy two

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Speaker 1: hours after the decision, our way time went from about

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Speaker 1: three to four days to now being already two weeks.

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Speaker 1: In the last couple of days, I have started my

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Speaker 1: interactions with patients by acknowledging that they've come a long

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Speaker 1: way for this care. And you know, the range of

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Speaker 1: responses has been anywhere from I've had no choice, um.

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Speaker 1: I remember a woman from Mississippi just looked at me

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Speaker 1: and said I didn't have a choice. Um. And she

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Speaker 1: and then continued to say, but I'm grateful that you're here, um,

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Speaker 1: to folks who just really broke down because just getting

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Speaker 1: there was so difficult. Um. We're still in that phase

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Speaker 1: where folks had appointments already established and on the books

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Speaker 1: in their home state, right, And so some of those

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Speaker 1: folks are, you know, still getting over the reality that

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Speaker 1: it really was overnight that they went from being able

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Speaker 1: to go down the street to now having to go

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Speaker 1: hundreds of miles. The consequences of the Supreme Court decision

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Speaker 1: are playing out in other ways as well. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have also seen all sorts of medications now at

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Speaker 1: pharmacies being delayed or denied because of potential implications on

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Speaker 1: pregnancy or miscarriage. You know, methatric state for example, to

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Speaker 1: medication we routinely use for ec topic pregnancies. It's also

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Speaker 1: one of the main stay therapies for folks who have

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Speaker 1: lupus or arthritis, for example. So folks who have been

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Speaker 1: maintaining their health with these critical medications are now also

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Speaker 1: finding themselves in places where they can't even get care

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Speaker 1: for non pregnancy related health care issues. Because of how

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Speaker 1: broad and wide sweeping this decision is, ending access to

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Speaker 1: abortion in one or multiple states was never the end goal,

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Speaker 1: and we should be prepared for what the next wave

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Speaker 1: of a tax looks like. Criminalization is certainly one of those,

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Speaker 1: not just for folks who are having abortion, but also

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Speaker 1: the folks who are providing that care. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think as we look to the next legislative session

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Speaker 1: and we are looking to broaden our our areas of support,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is a place where we're going to

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Speaker 1: need to engage folks outside of our typical movement and

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Speaker 1: really make sure that the fight to um to prevent

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Speaker 1: some of these things is robust and in a aggressive

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Speaker 1: My name is Danassessman. I am the acting executive director

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Speaker 1: at National Advocates for Pregnant Women, and we are an

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Speaker 1: organization that defends the civil and human rights of people

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Speaker 1: who are targeted for criminalization or other state intervention because

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Speaker 1: of pregnancy or because of a pregnancy outcome, including a

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Speaker 1: pregnancy loss like still birth or miscarriage, abortion, or continuing

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Speaker 1: a pregnancy and giving birth. One of the ways that

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Speaker 1: we're trying to get prepared for this new reality is

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Speaker 1: by working across disciplines. We are engaging more and more

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Speaker 1: with healthcare providers, with child welfare workers, with UM, criminal

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Speaker 1: defense attorneys, and even with police and prosecutors UM. Because

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Speaker 1: so many of our cases originate in medical settings. We've

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Speaker 1: had nurses call the police because they thought that a

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Speaker 1: pregnant woman intentionally fell down a flight of stair us

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Speaker 1: in order to end her pregnancy. UM. She in fact

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Speaker 1: was lightheaded, fell down the flight of stairs, went to

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Speaker 1: the hospital to make sure that her pregnancy was okay,

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Speaker 1: that she she and her pregnancy were okay, and UM

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Speaker 1: and had shared that she had contemplated having an abortion

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Speaker 1: earlier on in her pregnancy. But had changed her mind

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Speaker 1: her The nurse hearing that story spoke with the doctor

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Speaker 1: and one of them called the police and she was

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Speaker 1: charged with attempted feet aside, we understand that there will

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Speaker 1: be situations in which nurses and doctors and hospital based

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Speaker 1: social workers will feel like they are required to call

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Speaker 1: the police. And what we're trying to do is provide

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Speaker 1: more information and tools to health care workers so that

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Speaker 1: they understand that they don't have to report their patients,

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Speaker 1: and their obligations to their patients include minimizing harm to

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Speaker 1: them and to their families, UM, which means not involving

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Speaker 1: criminal law enforcement in their lives. UM. So we are

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Speaker 1: focusing on interdisciplinary response and an all hands on deck

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Speaker 1: response because that's sort of what's demanded in this crisis.

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Speaker 1: And you know, one example that we have that we

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Speaker 1: can point to is the Latti's Fisher case, which is

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Speaker 1: a case we worked on in nineteen a case out

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Speaker 1: of Mississippi where a woman who maintained consistently that she

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Speaker 1: experiences still birth called nine one because she was experiencing

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Speaker 1: a medical emergency and was deemed suspect because at some

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Speaker 1: point in her pregnancy, she had googled medication abortion, um

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Speaker 1: and I just think that we have very few cases

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Speaker 1: to point to, but that is one, and I think

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Speaker 1: very um informative of of of what we may see

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Speaker 1: in the not so distant future. We've been asked a

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Speaker 1: few times, you know what, what what would you advise

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Speaker 1: someone who wants to get an abortion or wants to

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Speaker 1: access medication abortion in a banned state? What would you

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Speaker 1: advise them to do with respect to sort of getting information?

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Speaker 1: And I said something along the lines of talked to

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Speaker 1: as few people as possible. It's so utterly devastating to

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Speaker 1: think that we are now forced to advise people to

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Speaker 1: not share what they're going through with others for fear

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Speaker 1: of facing criminal, criminal repercussions, not just for themselves, but

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Speaker 1: maybe even for the people who helped them. I think

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Speaker 1: it's not disconnected from what is also happening, which is

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Speaker 1: that primarily women, but all people with the capacity for

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Speaker 1: pregnancy will not be part of public life, you know that.

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Speaker 1: I think about the generational impact that this could have

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Speaker 1: if things don't how dramatically shift, you know, in the

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Speaker 1: next round of elections. And I don't have a lot

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Speaker 1: of hope. There's a lot of analysis over what having

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Speaker 1: access to abortion has allowed. It allows women to stay

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Speaker 1: in college, and it allows women to move to move

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Speaker 1: out of poverty. And we will see a general disappearance

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Speaker 1: of women from public life. And we may not see

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Speaker 1: it in two years or in five years, but in

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Speaker 1: twenty years or in thirty years, we will see such

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Speaker 1: a dramatic shift in who is participating in public discourse,

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Speaker 1: who are the people we see publicly, who is making policy.

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Speaker 1: I'm mourned for that. I'm mourn for the individual people

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Speaker 1: who will be impacted, but also mourned for what we

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Speaker 1: will miss as a society coming up, what the public

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Speaker 1: and private sectors are doing to protect abortion. I think

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Speaker 1: this hashtag say abortion started with I actually believe it

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Speaker 1: was Renee Bracy Sherman from We Testify started using that

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Speaker 1: hashtag during the presidential debates because she noticed that none

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Speaker 1: of the Democratic candidates seemed willing to actually say the

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Speaker 1: word abortion, and we're instead using euphemisms to talk about abortion,

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Speaker 1: so saying like uh, women's health or reproductive choice, like

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Speaker 1: really skirting saying the word of abortion. My name is Caramailman.

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Speaker 1: My pronouns are they and he. I am the chief

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Speaker 1: research analyst for reproaction. Part of the reason it's so

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Speaker 1: important to hear our politicians, like our Democratic progressive leaders

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Speaker 1: say the word abortion is because our opposition isn't afraid

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Speaker 1: to say the word abortion. They love to talk about

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Speaker 1: abortion because they see it as a winning issue for them.

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Speaker 1: And if we an abortion to become a winning issue

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Speaker 1: for us, which it is that the majority of people

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Speaker 1: support abortion and abortion access, we actually have to be

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Speaker 1: willing to say the word Chairwoman Maloney and ranking Member Comer,

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Speaker 1: thank you for inviting me to speak today. Congresswoman Pramalajaia

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Speaker 1: Paul is a Democrat from Washington State. I speak to

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Speaker 1: you as one of the one in four women in

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Speaker 1: America who have had an abortion. She's not only one

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Speaker 1: of the few politicians willing to say the word abortion,

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Speaker 1: she was one of the first to share her own

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Speaker 1: abortion story, first in an op ed in twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 1: and then before Congress in I remember googling congress member

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Speaker 1: abortion story to see if anybody else had talked about

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Speaker 1: it at the time, and what did you find? The

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Speaker 1: only person I found was Jackie Spear. Congressman Jackie Spear

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Speaker 1: had on the floor of the House in really angered

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Speaker 1: towards a number of comments that were being made by

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Speaker 1: a Republican member. You know, I had really planned to

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Speaker 1: speak about something else, but the gentleman from New Jersey

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Speaker 1: has just put my stomach in knots because I'm one

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Speaker 1: of those women he spoke about just now, I had

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Speaker 1: a procedure at seventeen weeks. She talked about the medical

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Speaker 1: necessities that she faced when she had her abortion. It

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Speaker 1: was quite a different story, but it was the only

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Speaker 1: time I found and so I just decided to go ahead.

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Speaker 1: And um, I think the reaction was overwhelming from across

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Speaker 1: the country, including from some people I didn't expect. You know,

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Speaker 1: a man who identified himself as a Republican who doesn't

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Speaker 1: believe in abortion, and he read it and he said,

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Speaker 1: I came away with a deep respect for something you said,

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Speaker 1: which is that you are not trying to tell anybody

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Speaker 1: else to have an abortion, and nobody should tell you

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Speaker 1: not to have one. He said, I think I have

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Speaker 1: been convinced, so mission accomplished. Yes, at least for that

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Speaker 1: one person. What is your reaction to what's going on

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Speaker 1: in this country visa the abortion rights It is a

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Speaker 1: catastrophic dismissive and demeaning uh decision that the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: has put forward. I feel outraged and fury because it

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Speaker 1: isn't just and I don't say just dismissively. I had

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Speaker 1: an abortion. I know what it means to be pregnant. Um,

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Speaker 1: it isn't just about the nine months of pregnancy. It

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Speaker 1: is actually about our agency as equal citizens to be

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Speaker 1: able to control our lives. Our lives do not stop

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Speaker 1: to matter the moment into conception, and I think that

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Speaker 1: is the issue that we just have to keep reminding

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Speaker 1: people of we are. We are part of the economic

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Speaker 1: engine of this country, and we have to have the

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Speaker 1: right to control our own bodies and our own futures.

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Speaker 1: The US is now one of only four countries that

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Speaker 1: have actively moved backwards on reproductive rights. So what does

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Speaker 1: this say to other nations and how does it affect

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Speaker 1: our standing in the world. We are already being seen

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Speaker 1: as a country that cannot call ourselves the leader of

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Speaker 1: the free world. Um, it becomes very difficult. There are

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Speaker 1: fifty countries in the last twenty five years that have

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Speaker 1: expanded access to abortion, and we are going in the

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Speaker 1: opposite direction. We are out of sync with the American people,

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Speaker 1: and we are out of sync with the world, and

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Speaker 1: it really affects our ability to say that we lead anything.

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Speaker 1: And let's just think about the fact that these hypocritical

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Speaker 1: Republicans say that they're pro life, pro child, pro family,

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Speaker 1: but every single one of them have opposed paid family leave, childcare,

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Speaker 1: the child tax credit. You can go through the list.

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Speaker 1: So obviously, UM, that also affects us. And I've had

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Speaker 1: world leaders you know, are people in other governments saying

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Speaker 1: to me, the United States is not the country we

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Speaker 1: thought it was. We are going to have to take

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Speaker 1: up leadership, um, because the United States is not capable

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Speaker 1: of offering that. Do you think it will change? Can

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Speaker 1: you bring the United States back as the world power

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Speaker 1: that it once was and that it could be and

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Speaker 1: should be? And my answer is yes, we can, but

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Speaker 1: it does depend on the people turning out and voting

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Speaker 1: for people, um, and eliminating some of these systemic barriers

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Speaker 1: like the filibuster. In the time since we spoke President

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Speaker 1: Biden's find an executive order on abortion rights, I'm asking

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Speaker 1: the Justice Department that, much like they did in the

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Speaker 1: Civil rights there, to do something, do everything in their

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Speaker 1: power to protect these women seeking to invoke their rights.

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Speaker 1: As of this recording, abortion is already banned in at

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Speaker 1: least eight states, and President Biden doesn't have the power

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Speaker 1: to restore abortion access in those states. But the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration is directing doctors everywhere that if a pregnancy is

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Speaker 1: causing a medical emergency, doctors are obligated to perform the

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Speaker 1: life saving abortion, regardless of state law. Hospitals that don't

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Speaker 1: comply could lose their Medicare status. On Twitter, conscious woman

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Speaker 1: Jaia Paul thanked President Biden for signing the executive order

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Speaker 1: and called on Congress to codify ROW, which would require

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Speaker 1: either changing the filibuster or electing a stronger Democrat majority

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Speaker 1: in the midterms. Voting is absolutely critical. Um. I also

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Speaker 1: think that there are media things around providing support to

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Speaker 1: UH pregnant people who are in these states that have

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Speaker 1: banned abortion. That is really really important, and I hope

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Speaker 1: there will be a series of actions that lead it

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Speaker 1: up to voting that are about demonstrating our power in

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Speaker 1: this economy. You know, I floated the idea of a

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Speaker 1: national strike, and I'm working on it and let's see

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Speaker 1: if we can get there. But I think it's important

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Speaker 1: for people to understand we have power we have to

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Speaker 1: show it. We have to assist those who are hurting

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Speaker 1: right now, and we have to vote in November. While

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Speaker 1: reproductive rights advocates within the public sector figure out ways

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Speaker 1: to protect abortion access, Rushmasu Johnny, an activist for Paid

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Speaker 1: Family Leave, told me back in March that businesses need

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Speaker 1: to step up. The private center has kind of not

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Speaker 1: dealt with Roving Wade and reproductive rights because I think

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Speaker 1: they never thought maybe the moment would come. And so

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Speaker 1: it's up to businesses to provide, you know, basically provide

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Speaker 1: abortion access to their employees. Like one out of three

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Speaker 1: employees will have an abortion at some point, right, so

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Speaker 1: this is like the vast majority, you know, of their population.

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Speaker 1: So they have to think about how they're going to

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Speaker 1: actually protect support, you know what I mean, the right

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Speaker 1: to choose. Like if if I'm employed and I live

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Speaker 1: in Texas and that Texas is now you know, outlawed abortions,

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Speaker 1: You're going to have to pay for me to get

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Speaker 1: to New York City, you know what I mean, my flight,

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Speaker 1: my airfare, the cost of it, you know, it is

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Speaker 1: now your problem. And and I think that this is

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Speaker 1: also the cost of when companies actually don't stand up

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Speaker 1: and speak out, you know, and join the fight. I

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Speaker 1: think we have to, you know, they have to basically

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Speaker 1: play a role in making sure that this right exists

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Speaker 1: for women. In fact, in the days and weeks since

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Speaker 1: the road decision came down, many companies, from City Group

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Speaker 1: to Yelp have responded by boosting travel reimbursement programs and

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Speaker 1: creating funds that do exactly what Rushima suggested cover the

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Speaker 1: costs associated with getting an abortion. The CEO of Amalgamated Bank,

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Speaker 1: Priscilla Simms Brown, was one of the first to reveal

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Speaker 1: such a plan. In an interview on CNBC, she explained

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Speaker 1: why abortion is absolutely a corporate responsibility. We want to

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Speaker 1: both hire and retain qualified women. In particular, we want

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Speaker 1: to give them opportunities um and we want to deliver

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Speaker 1: on our diversity and inclusion goals. These are just important

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Speaker 1: issues to women, and we have taken a terrible step

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Speaker 1: back for half of America's workforce. We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: I think there is a short term need and then

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Speaker 1: there's we need a long term strategy. Again. Here's doctor

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Speaker 1: Colleen McNicholas from the Planned Parenthood Health Center and Fairview Heights, Illinois.

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Speaker 1: The short term need really does have to focus on

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Speaker 1: getting people from point A to point B and then

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Speaker 1: back home home. And so as much as folks can

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Speaker 1: utilize resources grassroots organizations UM that are on the ground

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Speaker 1: doing that work, abortion funds, practical support organizations, or the

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Speaker 1: Regional Logistics Center for example, who are already doing the

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Speaker 1: work figuring out that infrastructure. But the long term plan

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Speaker 1: um and strategy really I think needs to be around accountability.

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Speaker 1: In this moment, I think it's a real opportunity for

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Speaker 1: us as a movement to say, you know, all of

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Speaker 1: the historic uh concessions that were made around abortion, you know,

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Speaker 1: the big tent and room for everybody. You know, that

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Speaker 1: approach is what got us here um. And so if

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Speaker 1: we are going to rebuild a system that works for

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Speaker 1: everybody and provides access to abortion throughout pregnancy where people

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Speaker 1: are when they need it, we really have got to

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Speaker 1: start holding people accountable. And so whether that means that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we stop giving them dollars when they're running

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Speaker 1: for office because they've demonstrated that in fact, they aren't

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Speaker 1: going to do the things that they say. They don't

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Speaker 1: understand that abortion is something we cannot compromise on, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think we just have to to think about how

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Speaker 1: we are holding those elected officials accountable. If we are

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Speaker 1: going to rebuild better, and when we do rebuild better

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Speaker 1: um and and more equitable, that it will have a

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Speaker 1: um an intersectional approach, right, and that that it will

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Speaker 1: truly pull in folks from all of the different justice movements,

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Speaker 1: because the truth is, you know, abortion is a racial

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Speaker 1: justice issue, and it is an immigrant justice issue, and

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Speaker 1: it is an environmental justice issue. And so if we

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Speaker 1: are to help folks reframe to understand why the ideal

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Speaker 1: is abortion care when you need it, where you need it,

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Speaker 1: and paid for by your either public or private insurance,

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Speaker 1: they must also understand how it fits into each one

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Speaker 1: of those sectors of life. As we learned in our

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Speaker 1: last episode, taking a global perspective may help us navigate

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Speaker 1: the long road ahead. So once again is one of

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Speaker 1: the leaders of the green Weight movement in Latin America,

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Speaker 1: Paula Avila Gian to those who are just starting to realizing,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the fight. Don't never feel that that you

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Speaker 1: are too late. It's never too late to fight for

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Speaker 1: our autonomy. Welcome it doesn't I don't, I don't care

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Speaker 1: how you talk about this or if you're political correct

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Speaker 1: or if you you you are just starting to learn

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Speaker 1: about this subject, just welcome. We need you. We need

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Speaker 1: as many people as possible because the only way to

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Speaker 1: win this fight is by h adding numbers to the troops.

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Speaker 1: For those who have been fighting like me for a

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Speaker 1: very long time, we need to cry for a little

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Speaker 1: bit because this is going to be a very uh

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Speaker 1: even though we know it has been happening that is

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Speaker 1: going to happen for a very long time. It's a

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Speaker 1: very hard moment. It's a very dark moment. But after

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Speaker 1: we cry, we need to get up. We need to

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Speaker 1: wear our green wherever you have and just use it

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Speaker 1: every day, and it starts showing up to every single march.

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Speaker 1: Start writing to every person you know and tell them

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Speaker 1: how they need to speak up. They need to use

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Speaker 1: social media, they need to show up. They need to

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Speaker 1: write letters to legislators. Follow all the organizations and all

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Speaker 1: the work of abortion phones and on other organizations leaders

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Speaker 1: to find ways how you can get involved. Sometimes showing

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Speaker 1: to march this is the most powerful thing that you

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Speaker 1: can do. Sometimes donate in money is the most important

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Speaker 1: thing that you can do. But you need to do

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Speaker 1: something about you need to take an action in this moment.

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Speaker 1: We cannot have the privilege to just stay comfortable in

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Speaker 1: our homes anymore. We cannot have the privilege of the silent.

435
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: We need to show up. We need to learn about

436
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 1: the consequences of this backlash, and we need to be

437
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: prepared for what is coming because it's not going to

438
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: be a short fight. It's going to be a long fight, unfortunately.

439
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,359
Speaker 1: But we need to show up and more people. Have

440
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 1: the conversation with your mother, have the conversation with your sister,

441
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: if you feel um encouraged and ready tell your abortion

442
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: and story. If you um feel that you need to

443
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: um write something right it and send them. Pressure the

444
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 1: media to keep covering this issue because this is going

445
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: to be in a media cycle. We are going to

446
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: have some months in which everybody's going to talk about this,

447
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: and then people are going to forget, and so we

448
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: need to keep the pressure into our duty of all

449
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: of us to make sure that nobody forgets that the

450
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: next crisis doesn't not forget about this one. And to

451
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: our electroficials, it's on you. This is following and it's

452
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: on you to fix it. There actually are more people

453
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: on the side of reproductive rights. After all, we know

454
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 1: that the majority of Americans, as many as eight percent,

455
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: believe that abortion should be legally accessible. So how can

456
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: we better represent that majority? How can we bring those

457
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: people out of the shadows and into the fight. We

458
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: got the chance to consider these questions with someone in

459
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: a group not often seen on the front lines of

460
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: this issue, the topic of abortion. There's a lot of

461
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 1: shame and secrecy around the topic in general, and particularly

462
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: in Republican circles. People just won't talk, women don't talk

463
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,719
Speaker 1: about it. I had no idea how my even family

464
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: members felt about the topic. My name is Katherine Kaufman.

465
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: I am a former political appointee in the Trump administration

466
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:25,280
Speaker 1: and current mother of three in rural Lexington, Kentucky. After

467
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: serving as the Minister on Gender Equity to the nineteen

468
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 1: G seven in France, I was overwhelmed by the feeling

469
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: of loss for the United States as a global leader

470
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: on gender equity because of our position on sexual reproductive health.

471
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: And upon returning from that experience to hear of the

472
00:30:53,680 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: law in Mississippi and my own personal experience with infertility

473
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: and IVF, I published an OpEd in The Washington Post

474
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: calling for Republicans to find our voice and speak out

475
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: in favor of women's rights and support of global gender equity.

476
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: When I published that op ed, I was advised by

477
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who's in the space, to go

478
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: dark on basically everything you know social media, don't check

479
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: your email, don't ever open something that you don't know

480
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: you know, make sure your address is in public. And

481
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: the White House published their own response, and I was

482
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: personally attacked by people in the White House at the time,

483
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: But other than those extreme individuals, I was overwhelmed with

484
00:31:54,240 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 1: love and support. I had thousands of responses, all positive

485
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 1: direct to me. Yes, I believe you, Yes, I'm with you,

486
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: this is exactly where we need to be. This is

487
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: how I feel, This is how my mother feels, this

488
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: is how my sister feels. But very few of those

489
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: people wanted to share that on a public platform. And

490
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: I have yet to meet someone in the Republican Party

491
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: who hasn't been willing to have a conversation with me

492
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: about a different platform, like a mother and child platform

493
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: that brings civility back to the conversation and lets us

494
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: connect as humans, men and women who they truly do.

495
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: Even my father who um, you know, is the treasurer

496
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: for the r n C and is the most loyal

497
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 1: Republican out there. He's out He'll say, well, I am

498
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: pro life, but you know, after our woman has been

499
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: told our options and spoken to the doctor, of course,

500
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: that eats her choice. You know, Like, well, dad, that's

501
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: always And so when you say are you an outline

502
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: in the Republican Party because you're pro choice, I've really

503
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 1: tried to define myself as someone who's pro mother and child,

504
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: who um, you know, just has a deep compassion for

505
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: both pregnant women and children that need support, and I

506
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: think it's an easier way to talk about it. I

507
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: don't think that you can have gender equity or claim

508
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: to have an equitable country without full sexual reproductive health rights.

509
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: That's where I've landed on that topic. Um. But I'm

510
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 1: not as pessimistic on the legislation being black and white,

511
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: that being impossible for us to come to good legislation

512
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: that does represent both the miracle of life and the

513
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 1: complexities of birth. I think sometimes we think we're pushed

514
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: to these polar opposites, and that's just politics, and that's

515
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: just the country we live in, and we kind of

516
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 1: give up a little bit, and I actually think that

517
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,799
Speaker 1: we can really use our common sense. The polling is

518
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: actually really encouraging. I mean, there's probably not an issue

519
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: Americans actually agree on as much as we do, as

520
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: you know, of us think abortion should be legal, which

521
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: is again reflective of how poor job the labels do

522
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: of reflecting our position, because then only fifty five still

523
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: a clear majority. But if only of Americans claim that

524
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: they're pro choice but believe abortion, so it's it's all.

525
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,959
Speaker 1: There is a middle. And I think if we did

526
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: take the time to educated ourselves on what is actually

527
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: needed for for true gender equity, if we look at

528
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: the outcome that we're trying to get to rather than

529
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 1: just and my pro life approach choice, what is the

530
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: outcome that we want. We want less abortions, we want

531
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, full equity. We want to take care of

532
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 1: the children that are alive and languishing in our foster

533
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: care system, which by the ways, I think upwards of

534
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: four and twenty four thousand. We don't want women to

535
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 1: die giving birth, and yet we're the only developed country

536
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,320
Speaker 1: in the world where maternal mortality is on the rise.

537
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: And these things are to me, this is all very

538
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: clearly connected, and we have to focus our attention to

539
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: the output that we really want, which is are there

540
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: more loved, safe and secure children with safe, healthy mother

541
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: in a country that cares for all of them? And

542
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: it's a much better question to get to and what

543
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: are the policies we need to put in place to

544
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 1: get to that outcome. This fight not only needs more people,

545
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: but new tools of engagement, tools like TikTok. My name

546
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: is Olivia Juliana Olivia Juliana on All Socials, and I'm

547
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: a nineteen year old political strategist and abortion rights activists

548
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: from deep in the heart of Texas, and I'm most

549
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: well known for abortion advocacy work and working for the

550
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: organization called gen Z for Change. Olivia's TikTok platform and

551
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: others like it has helped shift the abortion right side

552
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: of the fight from playing defense to playing offense. Last year,

553
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: tax has passed what's known as Sentabill eight, which at

554
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 1: the time was the most restrictive abortion band in the country,

555
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: and it was civilian forced, so civilians and private citizens

556
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: could now try to enforces against each other. I thought

557
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: it was a blatant violation of privacy and I thought

558
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: it was blatantly unconstitutional. So as upset, and then I

559
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 1: saw Texas Right to Life, which is an anti choice

560
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: or pro life organization, put out a tipline that was

561
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: made with the intention of allowing people to report abortion

562
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,320
Speaker 1: providers or people who have helped someone get an abortion

563
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: past the six week mark in the state of Texas,

564
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: and I was I was annoyed because these are the

565
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: same people that are constantly complaining and calling things orwellian

566
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: and saying like, oh, this is like N four, But

567
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 1: now they're trying to incentivize people to report their neighbors

568
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: for health care procedures that they've made about their in

569
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: choices they've made for their own bodies. So as a

570
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: young person his proficient in the Internet, I was like,

571
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 1: you know, there's no way that they can tell if

572
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: these tips are true or not or authentic. And so

573
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: the year previously, TikTok and gen Z had kind of

574
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: taken this approach to reserve tickets to a Trump event

575
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: and then not go. So with that idea, I was like,

576
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: we should do the same thing with this tip line.

577
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 1: So I'm in a video on TikTok encouraging people to

578
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: go leave a quote very authentic tip because I would

579
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: never encourage people to be dishonest um, and it just

580
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: blew up from their Other TikTokers jumped on the same thing.

581
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: And one of my good friends who's also our digital

582
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: strategy associated gen Z but Change, Seawan Wiggs. He created

583
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: a olde that you could run on your computer and

584
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: it would just constantly send tips to this tipline and

585
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: it just kept going and going and going, and eventually

586
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: the tipline website crashed and it couldn't be used anymore.

587
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 1: And then once that happened, the public caught on even

588
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: more and the host eventually dropped the site. So to

589
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: this day that tipline is gone, like it's not been

590
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: put back up again, and right to life as an

591
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: organization that has branches in every stag across the country,

592
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: and to this point we have not seen another tip

593
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 1: line of that nature pop up in any other state.

594
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 1: I think gen Z is really unique because not only

595
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: are we like writing and willing to march in the

596
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: streets and go out and vote for pro choice champions,

597
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: but we also know how to utilize digital tools in

598
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,399
Speaker 1: the Internet to fight back against oppressive things as well.

599
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: I always say people ask me like, is social media good?

600
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it a new is it like a

601
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: blatant good that we can use for things? And in

602
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: the abortion rights area, I find that it has been

603
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly used for good. It's been used to share resources,

604
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: it's been used to uplift calls to action for specific things.

605
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,800
Speaker 1: In Texas, a woman was arrested on a murder charge

606
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 1: for having what was called a spontaneous abortion, and the

607
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: call to action was to call the sheriff and the

608
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: district attorneys in Star County and demand that she'd be released.

609
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: Because we were able to boost that action on social media,

610
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: we had calls and emails coming from across the country.

611
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 1: I think my videos about the specific event got upwards

612
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 1: of five hundred thousand views, and um she was eventually

613
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 1: released because the district attorney decided not to proceed with

614
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,040
Speaker 1: the charm riges and they just connected the email and

615
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 1: the phone lines. So I think it's just something that

616
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 1: we've been blessed to be able to have in this fight.

617
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: And I also think that we are more inclusive in

618
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: terms of I think we're seeing younger and younger people

619
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 1: getting invested in this fight. I think like we think

620
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 1: young people people think like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen years old.

621
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: I've been in events where I've seen ten year olds

622
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 1: speak about abortion access and other issues like this. And

623
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: I also think it's important because of inclusivity in terms of, like,

624
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 1: it's not just women who have abortions, it's also transgender

625
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: and non binary people as well. And I think that

626
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: my generation has done a really good job of scoping

627
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 1: out the intersection ng communities and identities that will be

628
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,919
Speaker 1: affected by these problems. And I think a large part

629
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: of that is social media and different can communities that

630
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: are kind of coming together around these collective actions. So

631
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: I think it's a really unique thing that we've kind

632
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: of been afforded, and I think that it's genuinely going

633
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: to help us going forward in terms of continuing to

634
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:22,320
Speaker 1: do this work. A nineteen I shouldn't be having to

635
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:27,320
Speaker 1: organize and rally against elected officials and Supreme Court justices.

636
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: I should be at parties and spending my parents money

637
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 1: buying cute clothes, and yeah, here we are. So it's

638
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: it's a very bitter sweet because I feel like a

639
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 1: lot of us have been robbed of our youth. But

640
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: I also am very grateful. Um. That's so many young

641
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: people have kind of answered the call to side back

642
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: against these kinds of things. I wouldn't change age the

643
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: direction of my life now. My life has been changed

644
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: by activism work and by working with other young organizers.

645
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: And I think that that's a sentiment that a lot

646
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 1: of us share is it's difficult, it's tiring, it's overwhelming,

647
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: but it's also extremely rewarding to know that you're not

648
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: alone in fighting for these kinds of things. When we

649
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 1: come back, when your abortion goes viral. What we can

650
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: learn from Busy Phillips road from act to activists. That's

651
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: right after this, and I thought, well, I'm here now,

652
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: like I have this nightly thing and we need to

653
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 1: we need to do something. Busy Phillips is a great

654
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: example of the impact pop culture and social media can

655
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: have on making the personal political. She's become a prominent

656
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: and reliable presence in the abortion activism ACE in the

657
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: last few years, headlining a talk with Planned Parenthood president

658
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: Alexis McGill johnson at south By Southwest. So very chill

659
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: time to be talking about this in Texas. Now, let's

660
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: intact the yeah yeah and getting arrested outside the steps

661
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: of the Supreme Court after row was overturned. For you, guys,

662
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 1: Busy had an abortion when she was fifteen and living

663
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: in Arizona. She shared her story publicly in her memoir

664
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 1: This Will only hurt a little. Everyone in the press

665
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: like sort of focused on James Franco, which is like

666
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: such an I roll to me, because I'd like written

667
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 1: this whole book about what my experience as a woman

668
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: in this specific time in this industry was. And then

669
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 1: every single headline like around the world was like actress

670
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: Busy Phillips, bashist James Franco and new memoir, And I

671
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: was like, guys, I mean the book is literally almost

672
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: four pages. There is half a paragraph about what happened

673
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: between me and James, which we've talked about publicly before together.

674
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: Calm down, Welcome to the world of clickbase. But I

675
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: felt like a little bit like I got away with it,

676
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: Like I didn't have to talk about my abortion in

677
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: that way. I didn't get click baited with the abortion.

678
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: And so I was like, great, like, did that got

679
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: to tell my story? It'll matter to the people who

680
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: read it, it it won't matter to other people. I won't

681
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: get all this stuff the blowback from it. I did it,

682
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: and then these extreme abortion bands started happening, and I thought, well,

683
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: I want to say something on my late night show.

684
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 1: Part of the reason why I even wanted to have

685
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,839
Speaker 1: one was because there are certain things that I really

686
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: believe like and we had seen. I had seen I'm

687
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: friends with Jimmy and Molly Kimmel, and I had seen

688
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: how Jimmy was really moved by what their son Billy

689
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: went through, and like really their realization of what the

690
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: health care liamscape is for people in this country, and

691
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: how he he was like, I can't just stand by.

692
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: I have to say something about this, and really used

693
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: that opportunity and it made a big difference. It did.

694
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: It was pretty moving and profound what he did. And

695
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,759
Speaker 1: I thought, well, I'm here now, like I have this

696
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: nightly thing and we need to we need to do something. Well, listen,

697
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: I have to say something um here at busy tonight.

698
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: You know, we tend not to be overtly political, but

699
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: you know, as it turns out, I'm just trying to

700
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: be like a woman in the world is political. And

701
00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: so Brian Kemp, the governor of Orga, was going to

702
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: sign their extreme abortion ban into law, and that was

703
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: I had spoken with a bunch of people in the

704
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: reprayer rights space and we decided, we had decided before

705
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:18,919
Speaker 1: that even happened, that we would wait until he did

706
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: that and then I would talk about it on the show.

707
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 1: The statistic is one and four women will have an

708
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: abortion before age, and that statistics sometimes surprises people. And

709
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: maybe you're sitting there and thinking, I don't know a

710
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: woman who would have an abortion. Well, you know me,

711
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: I had an abortion when I was fifteen years old.

712
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 1: And I'm telling you this because I'm genuinely really scared

713
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: for women and girls. People that you love have had abortions,

714
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 1: whether they're talking about it or not. And then yeah,

715
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: the hashtag was Tina phase idea, you know, largely based

716
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,440
Speaker 1: off of the Rondo Burt's me Too hashtag, which was

717
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: kind of amazing, I mean kind of you know, a phenomenon.

718
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: And I I was very hesitant about that, about jumping

719
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: into that because first of all, I like, as a

720
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: white woman, I'm always trying to be aware of co

721
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: opting spaces where people have been doing work for a

722
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: long time. And then I'm like, Hi, but I'm in

723
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,320
Speaker 1: the face of this now, thanks, you know what I mean.

724
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 1: So I was a little hesitant. But then I was

725
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: at dinner with my friends Jenny and Goldie and yeah,

726
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: Alabama passed that law, and I was so angry and

727
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm doing it. I'm just gonna I'm

728
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: gonna do it. And we wrote the tweet at the table,

729
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: and I was like, there's so nervous, so nervous. I

730
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: don't want what if it's like becomes oh god, what

731
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: if I get trolled? Like I just had all of

732
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: those feelings. I pressed and we finished our wine and

733
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 1: dinner and I was like, I'm not going to look

734
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 1: at this again tonight. I'm not just I'm not. And

735
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: then I think it was the next day somebody called me.

736
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: I was like, do you know how many people are

737
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: doing this? And it's everywhere. It's on Facebook, it's on Instagram.

738
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: I was like, what, that's amazing, that's so great. And

739
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: I had literally like women coming up to me while

740
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: I was crossing the street in Los Angeles, like running

741
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: up to tell me, like to thank me, and to

742
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: say I had an abortion. Oh my god, I'm so grateful.

743
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: I'm able to say it because I don't feel anything

744
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: about it. I'm just so glad I get to say it.

745
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: And I sat next to a woman on the plane

746
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: who was a mom of three who had had a

747
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,440
Speaker 1: very wanted pregnancy that she had to have an abortion

748
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: because of things that were very medically it was medically

749
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: necessary abortion, and said, you know, I went through this alone.

750
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: No one at work went knew what I was going through,

751
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: a lot of my family didn't, a lot of my

752
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: friends didn't. And I felt so alone and so sad

753
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: because I had such shame about it, because I was

754
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: afraid that people would judge me. And I wrote my

755
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: whole story like the day after your talk show thing,

756
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: I saw it on TV. I wrote this whole post

757
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: on Facebook and I can't tell you like how free

758
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: I feel now. And I was just like, well yeah.

759
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 1: By June, a few weeks after going viral with her

760
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: you know me hashtag, my name is Busy Phillips, Busy

761
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: testified before Congress abortion is healthcare and should not be

762
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: treated as different from any other healthcare. I am so

763
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 1: sad that we have to sit here in front of

764
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: a row of politicians and give deeply personal statements because

765
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: the why doesn't matter. It should not matter. I'm here

766
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: today because I stand by the decision that I made

767
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: when I was fifteen years old. I am here today

768
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,560
Speaker 1: because my platform has allowed me to connect with thousands

769
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: and thousands of people around the country that you represent

770
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 1: who have made the same choice I have made, but

771
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: who will not all get the same chance to talk

772
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 1: to you directly. I had a real like bright spot

773
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: right after I had testified before Congress because um, one

774
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: of the women from Planned Parenthood told me that, uh,

775
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: after the you know me like hashtag thing went viral

776
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: and people were really sharing their abortion stories, that the

777
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: approval rating for abortion went up. It's always the majority

778
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: of people, but it goes, it hovers, that goes between

779
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,360
Speaker 1: you know, like seventy five and like eighty five percent,

780
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: And it was like at an all time ten year

781
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: high right after that, and I was like, that's cool.

782
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: People are talking about this in a way that humanizes, right,

783
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: and they're sharing their experiences very plainly. And no one's

784
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: experience is more valid than anyone else's. Because I was

785
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: fifteen and it was an unwanted pregnancy is no more

786
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: valid than a woman who has to has a very

787
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 1: wanted pregnancy and has to have a medical you know,

788
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: intervention abortion, or a person who's had three children, and

789
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: it's like, oh my god, I thought I was going

790
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 1: through menopause. Here's ship Okay, I'm gonna an abortion. Like

791
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: the reason why doesn't matter, right, Like, you're allowed to

792
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: have control over your body and what's happening in it.

793
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 1: And so that really crystallized for me that the piece

794
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 1: that has been missing the whole time is the message,

795
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: is the being vocal, is saying just practice saying it, like, yeah,

796
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: I had an abortion last week. I had an abortion

797
00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: when I was fifteen. I had an abortion when I

798
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: was fifteen. Practice saying it without any judgment on yourself

799
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: or anyone else. Oh yeah, she know she had an

800
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: abortion last year. I think when right? That was like,

801
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 1: may right, Okay, Suresha. We've been allowed, like we've we've

802
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:19,359
Speaker 1: allowed the other side to control a narrative about our

803
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:23,759
Speaker 1: bodies for so long. We've allowed them to tell us

804
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: what's shameful. We've allowed them to scream at us and

805
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: tell us that we did this as if our boyfriends

806
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:40,480
Speaker 1: had nothing to do with it. And I'm not ashamed

807
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: that I was born with a uterus and ovariase I'm

808
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: not ashamed of my humanity, and the idea that we

809
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: should be as women, that we should be as people

810
00:53:56,040 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: with uteruses is absurd. I feel like in the country genre,

811
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 1: there's just not a lot of people representing for the

812
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: folks of us that do believe that we should have

813
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,840
Speaker 1: bodily and family autonomy. Amanda Shires is a Nashville based

814
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 1: singer songwriter who has used her music to process her

815
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 1: own abortion, but also to infiltrate an industry and an

816
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: audience that hasn't exactly cotton to a conversation about reproductive rights.

817
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: Some people hear music and they don't really pay attention

818
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,720
Speaker 1: to the words too much, and they really like the song,

819
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 1: so they might download it. Then they might read the

820
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: words and they're like, oh, so you can get in

821
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 1: to to somebody's mind a little bit in And then

822
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,240
Speaker 1: Amanda released two versions of a song. One was called

823
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 1: Our Problem, the other The Problem. I started writing that

824
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 1: song after I had an abortion. My friend um at

825
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: the time that took me, she didn't have the same

826
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: views as I did about it, you know. And then

827
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: I found that out, you know, as I was going

828
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: through this, as I was like calling to make an appointment,

829
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: then they put you on the waiting period, and then

830
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: you go and then they do the consultation and it's oh,

831
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,279
Speaker 1: all so many steps and she sees, you know, kind

832
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: of this process and and in the end what stuck,

833
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: what stuck with me was that she, despite her differences

834
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 1: at the time, she she was on my side. So

835
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 1: that's where the idea started. Are you feeling well, are

836
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: you gonna tell how long have you know? I tell

837
00:55:53,000 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: you something wrong? Just to be a week? So you

838
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: tell them? Man and broke get all our problem is?

839
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: Um is a is a story of the group of

840
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: girls sitting around discussing somebody else's abortion. I wanted it

841
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,640
Speaker 1: to be in many voices because when I was going

842
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: through this, I didn't realize that there were more people

843
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: that had been through this, you know. So I was

844
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 1: writing thinking like, I wish there was more people that

845
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: felt okay talking about it more candidly. And I think

846
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: that hearing different voice tones, like touches, different frequencies, and

847
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: then having the like camaraderie or the divine feminine collaboration,

848
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: all that together kind of amplifies the message and also

849
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: makes people feel like, you know, I'm not a bad

850
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 1: Peron and you know, and and that's what people need

851
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 1: to know, rememberca why he dropped. I also wrote a

852
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: version with Jason, my husband, about it, and UM, I

853
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 1: got to the idea of the you know, me and

854
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 1: Jason talking about it, you know, from our perspective, but

855
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 1: also where you know, I had to make it rhyme,

856
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: so some of the details aren't exactly right what you want.

857
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: I'm scared to even say. This has been the hardest.

858
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: He I thought that, you know, including him because his

859
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 1: platform is bigger, and because he has the same views

860
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: on it as I do. He was willing, and I thought,

861
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: you know, like we always think that telling telling our truth,

862
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: maybe if it changed one mind or maybe inspired conversations. Uh,

863
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: that's all helpful, you know. I just think that UM

864
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: or thought and still think that. UM. It's it's important

865
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:19,600
Speaker 1: for for um everybody to be talking and helping as

866
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:24,600
Speaker 1: best they can. It's important for you know, white men

867
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: to say I believe that you should have rights over

868
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: your body. Also, you know, and you know, in some

869
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: ways that song was hard to sing. When Jason sings

870
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: with me, I felt like I could sing it better,

871
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: you know, like, Okay, I don't have to stand up

872
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: here and wait for somebody to throw something at me.

873
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: Jason's right here, you know, um, because you know, sometimes

874
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 1: you don't know who you're gonna wind up singing too,

875
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: and sometimes it just takes a little bit more backbone

876
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: and you find that in your friends, for your family.

877
00:58:54,320 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. And there was just an

878
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 1: outpouring of people sharing their stories everywhere from you know,

879
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 1: age thirteen to eight, and I was just flooded with

880
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: with like warmth and like like a sense of belonging.

881
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: It was. So it was touching, is what it was.

882
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: And it was also healing. I would do it all

883
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: over every every day if it was Groundhog's Day. So

884
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: I do hate that not not more folks are using

885
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: you know, their platforms too, you know, to help and

886
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: to teach their fan base. Not teach their fan base,

887
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: but kind of like just say something, because even if

888
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 1: you could change one mind, you never know. I've been

889
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about rage and pleasure and action. I

890
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 1: think that it is really important for women and non

891
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: biners people in general like me who have been trained

892
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: away from their rage to reunite with it in healthy ways,

893
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 1: like the song we Won't Go Back, just using like

894
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: heavy drums and guitar and so to to conjure up

895
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: that that feeling in me so I could recognize it,

896
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:19,120
Speaker 1: embrace it and then UM find ways of building pleasure

897
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: in my body so I can come to a state

898
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: of clarity so that I know how to act, because

899
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's fair to expect from ourselves

900
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:31,400
Speaker 1: UH solutions and action items when we are still in

901
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 1: a rage slash numb cycle. You know, we have to

902
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: we have to take care of ourselves so we can

903
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 1: be the best tools for change. My name is Connie

904
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: Limb and I go by the artist's named milk UM.

905
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 1: It's spelled m I l c K and yes, like

906
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 1: the substance that women create to nourish the next generation

907
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 1: and for non binaries as well. We Won't Go Back

908
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: is essentially a battle cry that is completely written, produced

909
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: and performed by women and non binary people. UM. I

910
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: am so proud of this project because it is turning

911
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: an anxiety and a fear into something powerful UM that

912
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 1: I hope can help energize people as we continue to

913
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: find ways to work through our burnout and work through

914
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: our disappointment and our hurt and you know, work towards

915
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: sustainable change. I happened to be in Washington, d C.

916
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: I landed the day um after the political article leaked,

917
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,960
Speaker 1: so I happened to take the train into d C

918
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: for something entirely different. But when I set my luggage

919
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: down in my hotel room, I had two choices. I

920
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 1: had the choice of either to like lie down on

921
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: that very comfortable looking bed and get some room service,

922
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: or take the lift and go to the Supreme Court

923
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: and just soak in the energy of the people and

924
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 1: our reaction to this potential overturning of Roe v. Wade.

925
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: When I was at the protest in front of the

926
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 1: Supreme Court, I started filming everything because I felt like

927
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: I was witnessing something historic. Um and the chance of

928
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: the people were very clear and very powerful. And the

929
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,479
Speaker 1: the chant that really got me to have my voice

930
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: leap out of my own chest was we won't go back.

931
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: And that chant just like brought chills down my back.

932
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 1: So I went back to my hotel room, I rewatched

933
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: the videos just to kind of take in the day

934
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: and reflect, and then that chant came up on my

935
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: photos app and I listened to it, and immediately the

936
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 1: whole idea of the song just rushed through me. What

937
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: I do should be my own juice. We won't will go,

938
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: we will, we will, we will, we will, And then

939
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:00,920
Speaker 1: I count. I had to test and to see what

940
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: the rhythm was, and so when I tapped out the tempo,

941
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 1: it was actually one and twenty beats per minute, and

942
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:11,240
Speaker 1: one per minute is a really popular metric because it

943
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:15,400
Speaker 1: is the um the average rate of the heart beating.

944
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: And so all the lyrics and the melodies, ideas the drums,

945
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,960
Speaker 1: the guitar, all of that started flooding out and I

946
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 1: didn't completely finish the song, and I had an ideas like,

947
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 1: why don't I make this fun? And so I posted

948
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: instrumental parts of the song and invited people to write

949
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,960
Speaker 1: their lyrics. And the reason why I wanted to do

950
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 1: that was because in times where we feel powerless, creativity

951
01:03:56,480 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: is a really safe container for us to actice creation

952
01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: and to practice agency. I got tons of lyrics, and

953
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: there was one particular lyric that stood up to me

954
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 1: from a fan, which is the opening line of the

955
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: song is my body is a revolution because the current

956
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: law is going to make voices feel less safe to

957
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:25,720
Speaker 1: tell their stories. That's when I clean on music. I

958
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: had to protest secretly in my own home because the

959
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 1: ideas I had just were too radical for my traditional

960
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 1: family at that time, and I found that writing music

961
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 1: helped me um disguise my truth and help me express them.

962
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: I feel that community is more important than ever, like

963
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,480
Speaker 1: actual real friendship, so that we can privately share our

964
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: stories if we don't feel safe, and I hope that

965
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: we can just keep our eyes and ears open of

966
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: who we can be witnesses for. This entire song was

967
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 1: made with love by women and non binary individuals with

968
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: such a pure um intention of reclaiming our power and

969
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: witnessing ourselves in our power. So when people listen to this,

970
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 1: I hope that they want to listen to it again

971
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 1: because it makes them feel physically and emotionally good and rejuvenated. UM,

972
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 1: because this is gonna be um an intense journey of

973
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:36,280
Speaker 1: resilience and persistence. So I just hope that this song

974
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: is like kind of like a snack in the middle

975
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: of the day, helps bring a jolt of energy when

976
01:05:43,840 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 1: you purchase We Won't Go Back. Of the proceeds go

977
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 1: to the yellow Hammer Fond and Planned Parenthood. This is

978
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 1: the final official episode of Abortion The Body Politics. Thank

979
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: you all so much for listening to this series. There's

980
01:06:05,080 --> 01:06:07,520
Speaker 1: so much more to say about this topic, and if

981
01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 1: you subscribe to my podcast, Next Question with Katie Couric,

982
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: you can keep up with any updates and interviews that

983
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 1: come up over the summer and in my next sixth season.

984
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 1: We do have a bonus episode of this series releasing

985
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:26,960
Speaker 1: next week. So many people generously shared their abortion stories

986
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: in the making of this podcast, and we wanted to

987
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 1: end with their voices. You'll hear some familiar ones. Busy

988
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,680
Speaker 1: Philip shares her abortion story, as does Congresswoman Jaia Paul

989
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: and Gloria Steinem. In the descriptions of all of these episodes,

990
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 1: we've listed resources and ways you can help, not to

991
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: mention things you can do to continue the fight. Abortion

992
01:06:56,920 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 1: The Body Politic is executive produced by me Katie Couric

993
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:05,160
Speaker 1: and was created by small team led by our intrepid

994
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 1: supervising producer Lauren Hansen. Editing and sound designed by Derrick Clements,

995
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 1: researched by Nina Perlman. Production helped this week from Mary

996
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: Do and a shout out to the Aspen Ideas Festival

997
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:21,680
Speaker 1: for letting me record in their studios. While I was there,

998
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 1: And finally a special thank you to Casey M producers

999
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 1: Sam Phalon, Courtney Litz, and Adriana Fasio.