WEBVTT - Interview Only w/ Warwick Sabin - The Most Promising Model For Saving Local Journalism 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.240 This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you 0:00:02.279 --> 0:00:04.800 by Incognate. You know, one of the things we talk 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.880 a lot about on this podcast is trust, who deserves 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:09.920 it and who doesn't. And lately I've been thinking about 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:14.200 how much of our personal information is just floating around online. 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:17.920 I'm talking about phone numbers, home addresses, emails, even information 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.400 about your family, all sitting on websites you've probably never 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:22.720 heard of. In the scary part, that information can be 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.600 used by scammers and identity thieves to piece together enough 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.800 details to impersonate you, target you, or worse. 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Use the code you get a discal again, 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:32.280 that's in cogni dot com slash chucktodcast and use the 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:35.520 code Chuck podcast to get sixty percent off and start 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:40.520 taking control of your personal data today. Trust me, I'm 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:44.440 constantly working on this for years myself, and here's an 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.919 opportunity for you to take matters into your own hands 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:53.040 as well. Well. As I told you when we had 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.400 John Adams on from the Montana Free Press that I 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.960 was going to spend the month promoting Local News Day 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.240 and as our way to promote Local News Day a ninth, basically, 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.800 it's an awareness day so the people get to know 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:09.839 the local news entrepreneurs that are everywhere. Unfortunately, not everybody 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:14.720 knows of their existence, and so creating a day like this, 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:18.920 which that was a John's idea there at the Montana 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.320 Free Press. He thought could be helpful around the country. 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:24.320 Various partners are there well. One of the pioneers, frankly 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.200 in this new independent space and one of the more 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.440 bigger success stories. There is somebody I've gotten to know 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:33.560 over the last three years as I've dove into this 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:38.000 space as work save it, and he is the publisher, owner, 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.760 proprietor however you want to describe it for New South 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.680 Today is the parent company, I believe, and he'll correct 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.720 me with all the mistakes I make here in a second. 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.240 I'm aware of Warwick through a variety of ways, but 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:57.280 primarily through my old boss, Andy Lack, who, by the way, 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.000 we will give a shout out here. He just committed 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:03.919 seven million dollars to a local news initiative recently. I'm 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.600 very proud of my former boss there. But he's been 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.440 very active with Mississippi Today, which is part of De 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:12.280 South Today. But Deep South Today is also in New 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.799 Orleans Jackson. I know that they're I think in Arkansas 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:19.040 and just you know, by its very nature Deep South 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:24.239 Today about bringing better local news to the Old South. 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:26.840 It's particularly more of the Old South states than the 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.200 New South States. So work, how'd I do? And describing 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.400 your company and describing your efforts, right. 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.320 I think it's a great summary. You know, Andy really 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.440 did get things going over ten years ago when Mississippi 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:43.280 Today got started, actually twenty sixteen, first nonprofit newsroom in 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:47.160 Mississippi really coming in there to fill the gaps that 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.240 existed as sort of legacy media was declining and small 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.760 local papers and radio stations were going out of business. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:55.920 And just in the last ten years, Mississippi Today has 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.800 become the largest newsroom in Mississippi. Won the Pluitzer Prize 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.200 and twenty twenty three was a finalist for the Pulitzer. 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:06.360 In twenty four just wins numerous awards for the quality 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.360 of its reporting. And this is really essential reporting, you know, 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.000 the accountability reporting that nobody would be doing if not 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:17.040 for Mississippi Today, just again providing essential local news and 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:22.760 information there. And it's scaled. You know, Deep South Today, 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:26.800 which is the organization I run now, actually includes three newsrooms. 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.360 So we have Mississippi Today, we have Veritae News here 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:33.000 in New Orleans where I am, and The Current in Lafayette, Louisiana. 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.159 And we're the only multi state nonprofit news network. We've 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.280 got a centralized business infrastructure supporting all three newsrooms, and 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:45.200 we're getting ready to scale across the rest of the South, right. 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.479 I know you're I think you're pretty close in Arkansas maybe, 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.440 but I know you've been deep there and there's really 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.200 a frankly, I think a couple of communities that would 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:57.880 really want it, and it's both Little Rock and Fayeteville, 0:04:58.080 --> 0:05:01.560 particularly northwest Arkansas. I know there's a huge foundation there 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.360 and I imagine and you know, there's actually a lot 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:09.080 of pretty good local news in Alabama. The folks over 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.560 at in Mobile, I feel like it's an old advanced 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:13.120 media site. 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.280 Correct, That's right. And I want to emphasize, you know, 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:18.720 we're not looking to go in the places that don't 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.680 need us, you know, where there's good stuff happening. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.440 You're not trying to be a predator here, You're not. No, 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:28.239 I mean we're not right, This is not predatory behavior. 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.560 We're going to go eat their lunch in Alabama. No, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.080 If they've got a good thing going, how do we help? 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:35.640 Yeah? And I think the look journalism for a long 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.279 time was so competitive, and it was competitive for a 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:41.159 good reason because it was a really profitable business, Like 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.000 you could make a lot of money in journalism for 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.360 a long time in the twentieth century, and that's just 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.279 not the case now. And what we've seen is, you know, 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:51.080 when the Internet came and all of these local news 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.960 organizations suffered as a result, and a lot of them 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:56.919 went out of business. There's a rebuilding that needs to 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.200 happen because people have discovered that this was essential civic 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.200 infrastructure that you know, no one's going to come and 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:08.440 report the local news for you, especially in small, rural, 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.400 poor places like the Deep South, like we get plenty 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.480 of national and international news from the internet, but nobody's 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.440 reporting on the PTA meeting, the city council meeting, telling 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.880 you who's running for office, holding elected officials accountable unless 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:24.320 we rebuild this infrastructure. So we're doing it as a nonprofit. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.320 We're doing it as a public service. We're giving it 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.680 away for free, and we'll work with anybody who wants 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:31.440 to work with us. But there's a lot of gaps 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.159 to fill, and that's where we're focusing. 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.880 Let's talk about the vacuum you're filling and why it exists. 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:40.839 What have you learned about the Jackson Clarion Ledger. This 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.920 is the basically arguably was the biggest paper in Mississippi. 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.560 Maybe the Biloxi Herald has certainly had a as a 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:52.240 fairly large circulation. I think there's a Greenville paper that's 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:56.800 fairly significant. Does that sound right, Greenville, Mississippi. My saying that, 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.400 I think it's I'm thinking of a community that was 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.359 in Benny time since district. I think it's Greenville, but 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:05.719 smaller that used to have pretty decent local political journalism. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.000 But let's take the Jackson Claaren Ledger, because this was 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.720 the essentially the largest city, the state capital. Now, what 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:16.640 have you learned from the failure there and the economics? 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.360 It's just just bad manager. I believe it's it was 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:23.320 a Gannette paper might still be Yeah, is it bad 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:26.400 management or was there? They're really sort of a local 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.240 business abandonment of the paper that made it very difficult. 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:31.720 I think that's a tough business. I mean, I'm not 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.520 looking to sort of, you know, take shots at anybody. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.400 No, and I'm not setting you up that way, but 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.520 you're trying to learn from their mistakes, and that's what 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:39.440 I'm curious about. 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.000 Yeah. Look, I mean it's it's it's tough when when 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.760 you're trying to run a business the same way that 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:47.120 you've run it for a long time, and you're trying 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.560 to dismantle maybe some of the structures that have been 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.520 in place for a long time that served you well. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:55.280 I just think that's difficult. I think our advantage again 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:57.240 was that we kind of got to build from scratch 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.239 in this new environment. You know, I think being part 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:05.160 of a big national news network is tough. Probably for gannet. 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:09.080 Being beholden to shareholders who are expecting a certain profit 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:13.040 margin is tough. We don't have to do that, I'll emphasize. Also, 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:17.040 the Associated Press doesn't even really have anybody in Mississippi anymore. 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:20.360 Wow, they completely abandoned basically the loss, so that you know, 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:23.240 they're very newspaper based. I mean, it's just how their 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.640 network worked. And I kind of think it's this is 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:28.720 something we need to rebuild, and I'm not sure epeas 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:30.760 that in the position to rebuild it. 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.640 That's it like there's a wholesale implosion of the old model. 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.439 We're fortunate that we're getting to kind of build something new, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.320 and we're iterating and evolving, and we're trying to stay 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.120 in a nimble as we do it. But you know, again, 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.760 we're not. We don't have to please shareholders, we don't 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.560 have to extract a profit. Every piece of revenue we get, 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.160 we can invest right back into the news product. And 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:52.200 that's why we're growing. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:58.240 Look, we've talked offline about the opportunities here with these 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.120 rising independent news organizations, and you know you now have 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.360 larger and larger ones that are showing up. I mean, 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.800 we've got a gentleman here in Washington, d C. Named 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.760 Robert Albritton. This is the one time owner of Politico. 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.560 His father was in the local news business for years 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:17.720 here before, both before I lived here in Washington, but 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:20.720 the you know, there was a news it was a 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.040 two newspaper town and a realistic one back in the 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.560 sixties and seventies with the Washington Star. And then he 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.000 also owned the local TV affiliate. Now, when Robert took 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:32.760 over the media business, he got he didn't he stayed 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:34.800 out of the local He sold all of his local 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.800 news holdings at first and made some money with Politico. 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.080 And and he's definitely you can you can see he's 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.520 just sort of seeing opportunity. But if you get a 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.600 couple of big tent poles in the independent space, you know, 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.120 Texas Tribune's a tent pole. One could argue, maybe the 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.240 Salt Lake Tribune, since they decided to go full independent, 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:57.160 is a tent pole. Maybe Robert Albritton's revitalized Washington Sun 0:09:57.280 --> 0:10:00.839 or Star, whichever name he ends up the's and all 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:05.280 depends on what how expensive the buying the brand might be. 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:09.640 If you do something like that, I could see rebuilding 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:13.320 this national network that a Mississippi today could could benefit from. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.080 No, yeah, no, look I agree. I mean, just just 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:17.680 to go back to your point, I mean, you know, 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.400 YESDC was had multiple newspapers, a two newspaper town, if 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.000 you want to put it that way. But you know, 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:27.559 so many small towns here in the South had two newspapers. 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:28.200 I mean, if you can. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.360 Buy the town was because guess what the dirty little 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.240 secret was. Everybody assumed the media was on one side 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.480 or the other. Right, that's right, So there had to 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.040 be there had to be a balance. Yeah, that's what 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:42.960 the that's what the problem. That's what the the community supported. 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:44.040 They wanted the balance. 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.640 They wanted the balance. But it was just a really 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.199 good business. Like people had to pay for the news. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.560 They had to have a subscription or buy it at 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:53.800 the newsstand. If you wanted to advertise a product, you 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.040 had to advertise it in a local paper and nobody 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.440 would know what sale was going on at your store. 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.160 So it was a really really good business until it 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:03.800 wasn't right until the Internet came and made all of 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.600 that sort of inoperable. And I think you know, when 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:09.640 when you talk about what we're trying to do again 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.240 in the South, in these rural areas where there isn't 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.880 an All Britain, you know, there isn't a Jeff Bezos 0:11:15.920 --> 0:11:19.320 like we are really like having to kind of figure 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.800 out how do you make this hyper efficient, how do 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.640 you stretch every dollar, and how do you do it 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.400 in service of a product that's actually a quality product 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.480 and not just slop. And we're doing that here, and 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.880 so I want to emphasize that your point is correct. 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.920 I think the networked model where you have a centralized 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:40.199 business infrastructure that's supporting multiple newsrooms so that they can 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.720 focus on the news product and the news gathering, and 0:11:42.760 --> 0:11:48.160 we're focused on again, you know, revenue, audience, technology, all 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.080 of those things that make that possible. 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:56.000 Let's talk about I think the challenge in local journalism 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.560 as far as the product itself. Is I sometimes use 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:04.800 the frame journalism for journalists, and there's this balance meaning, look, 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.160 there's some great stories, but if nobody reads them, you know, 0:12:08.440 --> 0:12:13.160 doesn't matter. And you know, I do think there can 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:18.079 be a disconnect at times between those of us who 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:21.360 want to be the next Bob Woodward and those of 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.000 us and those in the community who simply want what 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:27.520 I call service journalists. And the right balance is you 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.360 got to be both, right, You've got to be there 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:33.720 to help people find ways to save money, how to 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.960 learn how to navigate local government. You know, sometimes you 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.480 are literally the place that teaches people how the DMV works, 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.880 and there's no that that's by the way. If that 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:47.920 didn't exist, then you'd have to go to the DMV's 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.600 website itself, and God only knows how clunky their explanation 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.000 would be. In some way. In some cases, the beauty 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.079 of a local news organization is I always say, is 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.480 they speak American, there's there's there's government English, and then 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:01.839 there's a ma right, like, you know, you want to 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:06.360 tell people the reality. And I think sometimes that balance 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.080 is difficult because a young journalist doesn't want to be 0:13:09.080 --> 0:13:11.720 the ones that help you navigate the DMV. They want 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.320 to be the ones that win. The pullets are how 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.840 do you strike that balance and how do you learn 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.360 from the community. I mean, because the important accountability stories 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.840 aren't going to be the most trafficked. Any traffic matters 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.400 in this situation. So it's a it's an interesting balance 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.240 that all local news, I think, have to have to find. 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:32.400 I think it's about leading with values. I mean, you know, 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:35.000 the service journalism is sort of what leads to the 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.760 sexy journalism that you're talking about. You know, when you 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.840 talk about being the next Woodward, you know, we feel 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.920 like we have the next Woodward in Anna Wolf, who 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.520 won the police in Mississippi today. And she did that 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:49.480 by exposing you know, the misuse of welfare dollars in Mississippi. 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.280 And by the way, that took years and she was 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.720 going you know through literally just just you know, documents 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:57.320 and searching for things. 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:02.400 It's almost an old fashioned foya story, right, Like it was. 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:05.240 Pure shoe leather and foya and spending a lot of 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:07.880 time with papers. It was the opposite of sexy. It 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.760 was started as service journalism. It became the story that 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.120 involved you know, Brett farre you know, all of these 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.640 people that everybody's heard the story. And you know, I 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.360 think about our New Orleans newsroom that last year exposed 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.080 the junk science behind the conviction of a guy who'd 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.520 been sitting on death row forever. That guy is now 0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:28.880 out of jail and on parole. He was on death 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.880 row in Angola Prison here in Louisiana. And so, you know, 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.360 again didn't start with sexy stuff, but ends up in 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.960 a place where it has real impact. And I could 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.040 spend the rest of this podcast go through all the 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.800 journalism and all of our newsrooms that that really has 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:47.400 had this kind of impact. But to your point, you know, 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.600 we know that we need to cover sports, and we 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.720 need to cover you know, the great touch points of 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.880 Southern culture like food and music, and we're moving into 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.600 video and audio journalism so we can reach people where 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.520 they are and not just exsume that they want to 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.880 read a two thousand words story about you know, torture 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.280 and abuse in Mississippi prisons. So you know, we're trying 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:08.840 to do all of those things, but it starts with 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:12.600 the values that we're inculcating into our journalists. 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.320 You know, and I when I talk about my as 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.360 you know, and I just I think I view local sports, 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.520 whether it's youth sports, high school sports, however, you want 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:26.280 to view as a community bomb bond, right, And when 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.280 you think about we're so desperate for fine community bonds, 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.720 and what's a bond that is bigger than politics, Well, 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.960 youth sports in some ways is. Oh, by the way, 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.560 it happens to be a younger demographic. We all want 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.440 to have younger readers, right, So there's there's a lot 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:45.800 of stickiness here. But it's also expensive to cover local 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:50.320 sports because the audience is small, cumulative, collectively, it's a 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:54.160 gigantic audience. Right, It's a fascinating I mean, trust me, 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.320 I have I think there's opportunity to scale, but it 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.240 is more if you come at it from the youth 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.400 sports space, from necessarily the local news space. It is 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.800 hard to see the scalability when you're just looking at 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:09.120 it as a building block to your community information headquarters. 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:15.920 So it's a it's a it's it's there. It's a challenge. 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.480 I remember Andy Lack saying to me, the first hire 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.480 we made was it was was the leading sports columnists. 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.280 You know, we knew we need to at least, you know, 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:28.760 invite readers over, But what works and what are some 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:31.520 things that you want to try that you haven't yet 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.920 in this in this community sports space. 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.600 Oh it's specifically in sports. Well, I still think you 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.520 know that again to your point, like sports is really 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.160 really important in our culture. You know, whether it's Friday 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.400 night high school football, whether it's you know, college sports, 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:49.360 and I know you've been up my alma mater, University 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:50.240 of Arkansas. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:52.840 But it's also in high school. I mean, it's what 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.280 keeps communities from beating each other up the It's sort 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:00.320 of what's the last thing that communities ignore pol it's 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.840 about let's just talk about the high school game. I mean, 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:04.480 I see it, and I've spent a lot of time 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:08.560 in Pensacola. I've got place down there. I consider myself 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.280 a member of Deep South today. And you're larger, you know, 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.520 I definitely, And I know this culture and I love it, 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.240 and it is not inherently political. And yet these these 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:24.240 people are getting stereotyped by how frankly the East Coasts 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:30.359 sometimes covers the region. And yet I can feel the 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.480 desire for community down here. I do well. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:36.879 And again it's also you know culture. I mean, I 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:38.879 like to say that, you know, so much of what 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:43.920 people consider American culture if they're not in America, they're 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.359 really talking about sore because if you ask them, you know, 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.240 what's American food, you know, they'll say barbecue, They'll say fried. 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.720 I know, they always think of so America. Nobody's ever 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.400 talking about the jello molds from Minnesota. 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.800 I hope not, although I love my friends in Minnesota, 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:00.600 but but I do do. 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.399 But like, yeah, our South in the yeah yeah. 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.560 And then you know, what's what's American music if you're 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.960 if you're not American, Well, it's jazz, it's blues. It's 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.320 these genres that came you know, from right here in 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.840 New Orleans and Mississippi and uh, this this region and 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.400 even you know, when people talk about American writers, they're 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:20.240 quick to talk about Faulkner and wealthy and you know, 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.560 and this is this is a place deep, deep, deeply 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.159 rooted in its culture and it is a point of unity. 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.399 Please, I think one of the best modern writers today 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.440 is also a Mississippi native, right Thompson. Well, I mean, 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.560 you know, like it is, there's something about Mississippi that 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:38.639 just produces terrific, uh terrific writers. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:40.879 It's true, and I think we need to lean into that. 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.200 And and you know, you would also mention Rick Cleveland, 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.520 who's you know, the sports columnists in Mississippi's kind of 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.360 the the the sports columnsts Mississippi happens. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.280 To write fine bomb of sorts, right, you know. 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.320 There, yes, And you know he has a podcast. And 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:56.959 this is kind of where I wanted to go with 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.080 us too, when you talk about like the younger generation 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:02.360 and what need to do. We started experimenting with sort 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:05.720 of video and audio, you know, a few years ago, 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:08.040 and what we find is, you know, we still have 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.440 to invest in the reporting. You know, we have to 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:12.720 do the hard work to come up with the stories. 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.720 But when we're able to translate those into you know, 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.080 thirty to sixty second TikTok videos where you get to 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.399 see the journalist and you make a connection with that 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.280 person and that person's telling you in their own words 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.640 what they reported about that, it really lands and we're 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.399 getting way more engagement, you know, way more views, and 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.760 it's a way of sort of amplifying the impact of 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:34.639 the journalism. And so we're going to be doing a 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:37.560 lot more of that, and we recently announced this thing 0:19:37.640 --> 0:19:40.639 called Deep South Today studios where we're going to be 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.920 doing video across all of our newsrooms as well as audio. 0:19:44.240 --> 0:19:46.920 Again not new to a guy like you who's done 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.520 video and of course as a podcast right now, but 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:53.040 it's important for us to be getting all of our 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:54.879 reporting out and all the ways that we can on 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.400 every platform and the way that people want to receive it. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.479 This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:06.800 by Soul. So if you love that end of the 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.400 day unwined but hate the hangover, Soul's out of Office 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.440 is for you. 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