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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: taking control of your personal data today. Trust me, I'm

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Speaker 1: constantly working on this for years myself, and here's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity for you to take matters into your own hands

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Speaker 1: as well. Well. As I told you when we had

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Speaker 1: John Adams on from the Montana Free Press that I

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Speaker 1: was going to spend the month promoting Local News Day

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Speaker 1: and as our way to promote Local News Day a ninth, basically,

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Speaker 1: it's an awareness day so the people get to know

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Speaker 1: the local news entrepreneurs that are everywhere. Unfortunately, not everybody

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Speaker 1: knows of their existence, and so creating a day like this,

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Speaker 1: which that was a John's idea there at the Montana

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Speaker 1: Free Press. He thought could be helpful around the country.

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Speaker 1: Various partners are there well. One of the pioneers, frankly

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Speaker 1: in this new independent space and one of the more

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Speaker 1: bigger success stories. There is somebody I've gotten to know

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Speaker 1: over the last three years as I've dove into this

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Speaker 1: space as work save it, and he is the publisher, owner,

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Speaker 1: proprietor however you want to describe it for New South

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Speaker 1: Today is the parent company, I believe, and he'll correct

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Speaker 1: me with all the mistakes I make here in a second.

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Speaker 1: I'm aware of Warwick through a variety of ways, but

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Speaker 1: primarily through my old boss, Andy Lack, who, by the way,

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Speaker 1: we will give a shout out here. He just committed

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Speaker 1: seven million dollars to a local news initiative recently. I'm

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Speaker 1: very proud of my former boss there. But he's been

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Speaker 1: very active with Mississippi Today, which is part of De

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Speaker 1: South Today. But Deep South Today is also in New

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Speaker 1: Orleans Jackson. I know that they're I think in Arkansas

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Speaker 1: and just you know, by its very nature Deep South

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Speaker 1: Today about bringing better local news to the Old South.

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Speaker 1: It's particularly more of the Old South states than the

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Speaker 1: New South States. So work, how'd I do? And describing

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Speaker 1: your company and describing your efforts, right.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a great summary. You know, Andy really

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Speaker 2: did get things going over ten years ago when Mississippi

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Speaker 2: Today got started, actually twenty sixteen, first nonprofit newsroom in

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Speaker 2: Mississippi really coming in there to fill the gaps that

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Speaker 2: existed as sort of legacy media was declining and small

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Speaker 2: local papers and radio stations were going out of business.

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Speaker 2: And just in the last ten years, Mississippi Today has

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Speaker 2: become the largest newsroom in Mississippi. Won the Pluitzer Prize

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Speaker 2: and twenty twenty three was a finalist for the Pulitzer.

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Speaker 2: In twenty four just wins numerous awards for the quality

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Speaker 2: of its reporting. And this is really essential reporting, you know,

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Speaker 2: the accountability reporting that nobody would be doing if not

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Speaker 2: for Mississippi Today, just again providing essential local news and

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Speaker 2: information there. And it's scaled. You know, Deep South Today,

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Speaker 2: which is the organization I run now, actually includes three newsrooms.

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Speaker 2: So we have Mississippi Today, we have Veritae News here

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Speaker 2: in New Orleans where I am, and The Current in Lafayette, Louisiana.

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Speaker 2: And we're the only multi state nonprofit news network. We've

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Speaker 2: got a centralized business infrastructure supporting all three newsrooms, and

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Speaker 2: we're getting ready to scale across the rest of the South, right.

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Speaker 1: I know you're I think you're pretty close in Arkansas maybe,

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Speaker 1: but I know you've been deep there and there's really

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Speaker 1: a frankly, I think a couple of communities that would

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Speaker 1: really want it, and it's both Little Rock and Fayeteville,

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Speaker 1: particularly northwest Arkansas. I know there's a huge foundation there

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Speaker 1: and I imagine and you know, there's actually a lot

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Speaker 1: of pretty good local news in Alabama. The folks over

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Speaker 1: at in Mobile, I feel like it's an old advanced

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Speaker 1: media site.

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Speaker 2: Correct, That's right. And I want to emphasize, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're not looking to go in the places that don't

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Speaker 2: need us, you know, where there's good stuff happening.

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Speaker 1: You're not trying to be a predator here, You're not. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean we're not right, This is not predatory behavior.

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Speaker 1: We're going to go eat their lunch in Alabama. No,

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Speaker 1: If they've got a good thing going, how do we help?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And I think the look journalism for a long

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Speaker 2: time was so competitive, and it was competitive for a

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Speaker 2: good reason because it was a really profitable business, Like

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Speaker 2: you could make a lot of money in journalism for

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Speaker 2: a long time in the twentieth century, and that's just

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Speaker 2: not the case now. And what we've seen is, you know,

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Speaker 2: when the Internet came and all of these local news

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Speaker 2: organizations suffered as a result, and a lot of them

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Speaker 2: went out of business. There's a rebuilding that needs to

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Speaker 2: happen because people have discovered that this was essential civic

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Speaker 2: infrastructure that you know, no one's going to come and

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Speaker 2: report the local news for you, especially in small, rural,

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Speaker 2: poor places like the Deep South, like we get plenty

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Speaker 2: of national and international news from the internet, but nobody's

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Speaker 2: reporting on the PTA meeting, the city council meeting, telling

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Speaker 2: you who's running for office, holding elected officials accountable unless

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Speaker 2: we rebuild this infrastructure. So we're doing it as a nonprofit.

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Speaker 2: We're doing it as a public service. We're giving it

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Speaker 2: away for free, and we'll work with anybody who wants

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Speaker 2: to work with us. But there's a lot of gaps

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Speaker 2: to fill, and that's where we're focusing.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the vacuum you're filling and why it exists.

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Speaker 1: What have you learned about the Jackson Clarion Ledger. This

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Speaker 1: is the basically arguably was the biggest paper in Mississippi.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the Biloxi Herald has certainly had a as a

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Speaker 1: fairly large circulation. I think there's a Greenville paper that's

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Speaker 1: fairly significant. Does that sound right, Greenville, Mississippi. My saying that,

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Speaker 1: I think it's I'm thinking of a community that was

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Speaker 1: in Benny time since district. I think it's Greenville, but

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Speaker 1: smaller that used to have pretty decent local political journalism.

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Speaker 1: But let's take the Jackson Claaren Ledger, because this was

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Speaker 1: the essentially the largest city, the state capital. Now, what

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Speaker 1: have you learned from the failure there and the economics?

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Speaker 1: It's just just bad manager. I believe it's it was

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Speaker 1: a Gannette paper might still be Yeah, is it bad

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Speaker 1: management or was there? They're really sort of a local

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Speaker 1: business abandonment of the paper that made it very difficult.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a tough business. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 2: looking to sort of, you know, take shots at anybody.

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Speaker 1: No, and I'm not setting you up that way, but

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Speaker 1: you're trying to learn from their mistakes, and that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm curious about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean it's it's it's tough when when

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Speaker 2: you're trying to run a business the same way that

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Speaker 2: you've run it for a long time, and you're trying

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Speaker 2: to dismantle maybe some of the structures that have been

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Speaker 2: in place for a long time that served you well.

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Speaker 2: I just think that's difficult. I think our advantage again

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Speaker 2: was that we kind of got to build from scratch

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Speaker 2: in this new environment. You know, I think being part

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Speaker 2: of a big national news network is tough. Probably for gannet.

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Speaker 2: Being beholden to shareholders who are expecting a certain profit

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Speaker 2: margin is tough. We don't have to do that, I'll emphasize. Also,

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Speaker 2: the Associated Press doesn't even really have anybody in Mississippi anymore.

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Speaker 1: Wow, they completely abandoned basically the loss, so that you know,

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Speaker 1: they're very newspaper based. I mean, it's just how their

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Speaker 1: network worked. And I kind of think it's this is

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Speaker 1: something we need to rebuild, and I'm not sure epeas

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Speaker 1: that in the position to rebuild it.

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Speaker 2: That's it like there's a wholesale implosion of the old model.

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Speaker 2: We're fortunate that we're getting to kind of build something new,

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Speaker 2: and we're iterating and evolving, and we're trying to stay

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Speaker 2: in a nimble as we do it. But you know, again,

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Speaker 2: we're not. We don't have to please shareholders, we don't

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Speaker 2: have to extract a profit. Every piece of revenue we get,

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Speaker 2: we can invest right back into the news product. And

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Speaker 2: that's why we're growing.

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Speaker 1: Look, we've talked offline about the opportunities here with these

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Speaker 1: rising independent news organizations, and you know you now have

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Speaker 1: larger and larger ones that are showing up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we've got a gentleman here in Washington, d C. Named

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Speaker 1: Robert Albritton. This is the one time owner of Politico.

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Speaker 1: His father was in the local news business for years

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Speaker 1: here before, both before I lived here in Washington, but

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Speaker 1: the you know, there was a news it was a

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Speaker 1: two newspaper town and a realistic one back in the

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Speaker 1: sixties and seventies with the Washington Star. And then he

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Speaker 1: also owned the local TV affiliate. Now, when Robert took

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Speaker 1: over the media business, he got he didn't he stayed

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Speaker 1: out of the local He sold all of his local

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Speaker 1: news holdings at first and made some money with Politico.

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Speaker 1: And and he's definitely you can you can see he's

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Speaker 1: just sort of seeing opportunity. But if you get a

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Speaker 1: couple of big tent poles in the independent space, you know,

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Speaker 1: Texas Tribune's a tent pole. One could argue, maybe the

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Speaker 1: Salt Lake Tribune, since they decided to go full independent,

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Speaker 1: is a tent pole. Maybe Robert Albritton's revitalized Washington Sun

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Speaker 1: or Star, whichever name he ends up the's and all

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Speaker 1: depends on what how expensive the buying the brand might be.

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Speaker 1: If you do something like that, I could see rebuilding

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Speaker 1: this national network that a Mississippi today could could benefit from.

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Speaker 2: No, yeah, no, look I agree. I mean, just just

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Speaker 2: to go back to your point, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: YESDC was had multiple newspapers, a two newspaper town, if

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Speaker 2: you want to put it that way. But you know,

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Speaker 2: so many small towns here in the South had two newspapers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you can.

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Speaker 1: Buy the town was because guess what the dirty little

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Speaker 1: secret was. Everybody assumed the media was on one side

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Speaker 1: or the other. Right, that's right, So there had to

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Speaker 1: be there had to be a balance. Yeah, that's what

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Speaker 1: the that's what the problem. That's what the the community supported.

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Speaker 1: They wanted the balance.

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Speaker 2: They wanted the balance. But it was just a really

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Speaker 2: good business. Like people had to pay for the news.

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Speaker 2: They had to have a subscription or buy it at

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Speaker 2: the newsstand. If you wanted to advertise a product, you

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Speaker 2: had to advertise it in a local paper and nobody

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Speaker 2: would know what sale was going on at your store.

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Speaker 2: So it was a really really good business until it

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Speaker 2: wasn't right until the Internet came and made all of

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Speaker 2: that sort of inoperable. And I think you know, when

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Speaker 2: when you talk about what we're trying to do again

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Speaker 2: in the South, in these rural areas where there isn't

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Speaker 2: an All Britain, you know, there isn't a Jeff Bezos

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Speaker 2: like we are really like having to kind of figure

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Speaker 2: out how do you make this hyper efficient, how do

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Speaker 2: you stretch every dollar, and how do you do it

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Speaker 2: in service of a product that's actually a quality product

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Speaker 2: and not just slop. And we're doing that here, and

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Speaker 2: so I want to emphasize that your point is correct.

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Speaker 2: I think the networked model where you have a centralized

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Speaker 2: business infrastructure that's supporting multiple newsrooms so that they can

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Speaker 2: focus on the news product and the news gathering, and

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Speaker 2: we're focused on again, you know, revenue, audience, technology, all

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Speaker 2: of those things that make that possible.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about I think the challenge in local journalism

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Speaker 1: as far as the product itself. Is I sometimes use

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Speaker 1: the frame journalism for journalists, and there's this balance meaning, look,

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Speaker 1: there's some great stories, but if nobody reads them, you know,

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter. And you know, I do think there can

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Speaker 1: be a disconnect at times between those of us who

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Speaker 1: want to be the next Bob Woodward and those of

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Speaker 1: us and those in the community who simply want what

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Speaker 1: I call service journalists. And the right balance is you

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Speaker 1: got to be both, right, You've got to be there

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Speaker 1: to help people find ways to save money, how to

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Speaker 1: learn how to navigate local government. You know, sometimes you

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Speaker 1: are literally the place that teaches people how the DMV works,

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Speaker 1: and there's no that that's by the way. If that

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Speaker 1: didn't exist, then you'd have to go to the DMV's

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Speaker 1: website itself, and God only knows how clunky their explanation

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Speaker 1: would be. In some way. In some cases, the beauty

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Speaker 1: of a local news organization is I always say, is

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Speaker 1: they speak American, there's there's there's government English, and then

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Speaker 1: there's a ma right, like, you know, you want to

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Speaker 1: tell people the reality. And I think sometimes that balance

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Speaker 1: is difficult because a young journalist doesn't want to be

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Speaker 1: the ones that help you navigate the DMV. They want

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Speaker 1: to be the ones that win. The pullets are how

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Speaker 1: do you strike that balance and how do you learn

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Speaker 1: from the community. I mean, because the important accountability stories

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Speaker 1: aren't going to be the most trafficked. Any traffic matters

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Speaker 1: in this situation. So it's a it's an interesting balance

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Speaker 1: that all local news, I think, have to have to find.

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Speaker 2: I think it's about leading with values. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: the service journalism is sort of what leads to the

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Speaker 2: sexy journalism that you're talking about. You know, when you

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Speaker 2: talk about being the next Woodward, you know, we feel

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Speaker 2: like we have the next Woodward in Anna Wolf, who

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Speaker 2: won the police in Mississippi today. And she did that

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Speaker 2: by exposing you know, the misuse of welfare dollars in Mississippi.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, that took years and she was

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Speaker 2: going you know through literally just just you know, documents

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Speaker 2: and searching for things.

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Speaker 1: It's almost an old fashioned foya story, right, Like it was.

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Speaker 2: Pure shoe leather and foya and spending a lot of

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Speaker 2: time with papers. It was the opposite of sexy. It

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Speaker 2: was started as service journalism. It became the story that

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Speaker 2: involved you know, Brett farre you know, all of these

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Speaker 2: people that everybody's heard the story. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: think about our New Orleans newsroom that last year exposed

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Speaker 2: the junk science behind the conviction of a guy who'd

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Speaker 2: been sitting on death row forever. That guy is now

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Speaker 2: out of jail and on parole. He was on death

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Speaker 2: row in Angola Prison here in Louisiana. And so, you know,

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Speaker 2: again didn't start with sexy stuff, but ends up in

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Speaker 2: a place where it has real impact. And I could

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Speaker 2: spend the rest of this podcast go through all the

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Speaker 2: journalism and all of our newsrooms that that really has

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Speaker 2: had this kind of impact. But to your point, you know,

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Speaker 2: we know that we need to cover sports, and we

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Speaker 2: need to cover you know, the great touch points of

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Speaker 2: Southern culture like food and music, and we're moving into

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Speaker 2: video and audio journalism so we can reach people where

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Speaker 2: they are and not just exsume that they want to

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Speaker 2: read a two thousand words story about you know, torture

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Speaker 2: and abuse in Mississippi prisons. So you know, we're trying

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Speaker 2: to do all of those things, but it starts with

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Speaker 2: the values that we're inculcating into our journalists.

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Speaker 1: You know, and I when I talk about my as

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Speaker 1: you know, and I just I think I view local sports,

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Speaker 1: whether it's youth sports, high school sports, however, you want

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Speaker 1: to view as a community bomb bond, right, And when

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Speaker 1: you think about we're so desperate for fine community bonds,

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Speaker 1: and what's a bond that is bigger than politics, Well,

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Speaker 1: youth sports in some ways is. Oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: it happens to be a younger demographic. We all want

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Speaker 1: to have younger readers, right, So there's there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of stickiness here. But it's also expensive to cover local

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Speaker 1: sports because the audience is small, cumulative, collectively, it's a

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Speaker 1: gigantic audience. Right, It's a fascinating I mean, trust me,

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Speaker 1: I have I think there's opportunity to scale, but it

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Speaker 1: is more if you come at it from the youth

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Speaker 1: sports space, from necessarily the local news space. It is

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Speaker 1: hard to see the scalability when you're just looking at

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Speaker 1: it as a building block to your community information headquarters.

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Speaker 1: So it's a it's a it's it's there. It's a challenge.

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Speaker 1: I remember Andy Lack saying to me, the first hire

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Speaker 1: we made was it was was the leading sports columnists.

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Speaker 1: You know, we knew we need to at least, you know,

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Speaker 1: invite readers over, But what works and what are some

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Speaker 1: things that you want to try that you haven't yet

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Speaker 1: in this in this community sports space.

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Speaker 2: Oh it's specifically in sports. Well, I still think you

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Speaker 2: know that again to your point, like sports is really

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Speaker 2: really important in our culture. You know, whether it's Friday

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Speaker 2: night high school football, whether it's you know, college sports,

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Speaker 2: and I know you've been up my alma mater, University

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Speaker 2: of Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: But it's also in high school. I mean, it's what

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Speaker 1: keeps communities from beating each other up the It's sort

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Speaker 1: of what's the last thing that communities ignore pol it's

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Speaker 1: about let's just talk about the high school game. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I see it, and I've spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: in Pensacola. I've got place down there. I consider myself

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Speaker 1: a member of Deep South today. And you're larger, you know,

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Speaker 1: I definitely, And I know this culture and I love it,

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Speaker 1: and it is not inherently political. And yet these these

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Speaker 1: people are getting stereotyped by how frankly the East Coasts

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Speaker 1: sometimes covers the region. And yet I can feel the

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Speaker 1: desire for community down here. I do well.

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Speaker 2: And again it's also you know culture. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: like to say that, you know, so much of what

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Speaker 2: people consider American culture if they're not in America, they're

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Speaker 2: really talking about sore because if you ask them, you know,

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Speaker 2: what's American food, you know, they'll say barbecue, They'll say fried.

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Speaker 1: I know, they always think of so America. Nobody's ever

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Speaker 1: talking about the jello molds from Minnesota.

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Speaker 2: I hope not, although I love my friends in Minnesota,

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Speaker 2: but but I do do.

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Speaker 1: But like, yeah, our South in the yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, what's what's American music if you're

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Speaker 2: if you're not American, Well, it's jazz, it's blues. It's

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Speaker 2: these genres that came you know, from right here in

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Speaker 2: New Orleans and Mississippi and uh, this this region and

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Speaker 2: even you know, when people talk about American writers, they're

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Speaker 2: quick to talk about Faulkner and wealthy and you know,

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Speaker 2: and this is this is a place deep, deep, deeply

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Speaker 2: rooted in its culture and it is a point of unity.

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Speaker 1: Please, I think one of the best modern writers today

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Speaker 1: is also a Mississippi native, right Thompson. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it is, there's something about Mississippi that

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Speaker 1: just produces terrific, uh terrific writers.

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Speaker 2: It's true, and I think we need to lean into that.

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Speaker 2: And and you know, you would also mention Rick Cleveland,

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Speaker 2: who's you know, the sports columnists in Mississippi's kind of

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Speaker 2: the the the sports columnsts Mississippi happens.

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Speaker 1: To write fine bomb of sorts, right, you know.

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Speaker 2: There, yes, And you know he has a podcast. And

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Speaker 2: this is kind of where I wanted to go with

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Speaker 2: us too, when you talk about like the younger generation

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Speaker 2: and what need to do. We started experimenting with sort

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Speaker 2: of video and audio, you know, a few years ago,

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Speaker 2: and what we find is, you know, we still have

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Speaker 2: to invest in the reporting. You know, we have to

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Speaker 2: do the hard work to come up with the stories.

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Speaker 2: But when we're able to translate those into you know,

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Speaker 2: thirty to sixty second TikTok videos where you get to

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Speaker 2: see the journalist and you make a connection with that

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Speaker 2: person and that person's telling you in their own words

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Speaker 2: what they reported about that, it really lands and we're

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Speaker 2: getting way more engagement, you know, way more views, and

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Speaker 2: it's a way of sort of amplifying the impact of

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Speaker 2: the journalism. And so we're going to be doing a

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Speaker 2: lot more of that, and we recently announced this thing

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Speaker 2: called Deep South Today studios where we're going to be

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Speaker 2: doing video across all of our newsrooms as well as audio.

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Speaker 2: Again not new to a guy like you who's done

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Speaker 2: video and of course as a podcast right now, but

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Speaker 2: it's important for us to be getting all of our

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Speaker 2: reporting out and all the ways that we can on

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Speaker 2: every platform and the way that people want to receive it.

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Speaker 1: it's interesting if I think about I'm sure and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna pivot AI here because I actually think what you're

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Speaker 1: talking about is is the perfect response to this AI moment.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I think about the unintended consequence of AI,

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Speaker 1: one of the upsides that I see that I'm and

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Speaker 1: maybe i'm this is the eternal I always say I'm

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Speaker 1: short term, pessimistical, term optimistic. You know, I know we're

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Speaker 1: going to get it right. I just don't know how

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Speaker 1: long it's going to take us to get it right.

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Speaker 1: Whatever right is. You know, I'll let people describe their

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Speaker 1: version of it, but well, we know we're not there,

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Speaker 1: and I think we can all come to that agreement.

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Speaker 1: I think that this moment of AI that we're in

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Speaker 1: is going to have people crave human connection. I think

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Speaker 1: it's going to crave and so in the world of journalism,

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Speaker 1: I think this is going to be we're actually going

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Speaker 1: to stick to this independent model for a while. You

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Speaker 1: know that consolidation. First of all, it's not going to

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Speaker 1: make business sense the way it did perhaps in the

429
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 1: early nineties and then again in the early odds. So

430
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,919
Speaker 1: I don't think you're going to see predators out there right.

431
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 1: There isn't going to be a Gannette that decides, hey,

432
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: why don't we you know, gobble all these people up there.

433
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 1: There's some scale here. I think Google took everybody's scale. Okay,

434
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: so Google has everybody's scale, So nobody's going to be

435
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: thinking in those terms. But the demand for human connection,

436
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: the demand to trust human curators and to be live

437
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: and in person. So for instance, they got to see it,

438
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: touch it, the byline alone, and all sorts of ways.

439
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 1: I you know, people are now making personal, connective decisions

440
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: and how they get their information. And when you go

441
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 1: audio in particular or even YouTube, you're listening in a headphone,

442
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: and even that physical distinction between turning on a TV

443
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: where everybody hears it versus what am I only going here?

444
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 1: Well then it's intimate and even more personal. And the

445
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: last thing you want is a bot talking to you

446
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:37,160
Speaker 1: that way. So you know, I sense that opportunity. But look,

447
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean AI isn't an incredible tool to

448
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: help you aggregate information, deal with deep databases. And you

449
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: know there's certainly a toolbox aspect of this. It's going

450
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: to be phenomenal and can be phenomenal. So how are

451
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 1: you guys looking at AI? And you know, I think

452
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: it's a mistake to try to have hard and fast

453
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: rules the moment because AI is in the middle of

454
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: evolving all the time. We will never use AI, okay,

455
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: I bet you said, we will never use Wikipedia like

456
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: I remember saying that about Wikipedia and going you know,

457
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: in hindsight, it turned out Wikipedia is a B minus product,

458
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: and that's incredible for the Internet, right, B minus is

459
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: actually at a curve, probably a work right. So Wikipedia

460
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: today is actually a pretty decent source versus twenty years

461
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: ago when all of us snobby journalists that do no, no, no,

462
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: don't you quote your Wikipedia to me. So I'm trying

463
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: to have a little bit of that of that sort

464
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: of lack of hubris. I guess about AI. But where

465
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: are you on it?

466
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: And how do you Yeah, I mean, and I've got

467
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: a lot to say on this. I want to reiterate

468
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 2: something you mentioned, which is, you know, the factor of trust.

469
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: You know, we are very rooted in place here in

470
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 2: the Deep South. The big part of our sort of model,

471
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,719
Speaker 2: of course is having the newsrooms, you know, locally based,

472
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 2: having our journalists in the community. It's really very important

473
00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: to us.

474
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, how many people in and the committee asked, and

475
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,679
Speaker 1: how many generations I Beer's family lived here. That's the

476
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: first question out of their mouth, right.

477
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: Well, it's a big question. But more importantly, just people

478
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: want to know that, like you actually live there, that

479
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 2: you're experiencing the same thing they're experiencing. And it's one

480
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 2: thing for us to kind of have like this network

481
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: model where we're doing these business functions at you know,

482
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 2: the Deep South today level. But it's even more important

483
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: that the newsrooms themselves are again rooted locally. The journalists

484
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 2: are in the community, they're seeing, they're touching. You know,

485
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: we do a lot of in person events. To your point, again,

486
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 2: the video and the audio is important so people see

487
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 2: the journalists and can make those personal connections. But you know,

488
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: when it comes to AI, then I think, you know,

489
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: it's it's important to start with like the fact that

490
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 2: I think people can really sniff out the fraudulent aspects

491
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: of AI. Like just recently, you know, this book was

492
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 2: canceled because people figured out I guess as soon as

493
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: they started reading it that have been generated with AI.

494
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: I think people see that with articles, they see that

495
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 2: with videos and voices, you know, when we're on social media,

496
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: and so you know, the more that we can kind

497
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 2: of again convey the authenticity in our reporting, it's really

498
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: really important now we know that like all of us

499
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 2: use AI even if we don't mean to, because when

500
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 2: we're doing like a you know, a Google search.

501
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: Or we can't do search anymore without AI getting in

502
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: the way anyway. And frankly, search is so terrible with

503
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: all of its advertisements, you know, which takes you eight,

504
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: you know, eight scrolls before you find the first link

505
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: that wasn't ad supported, you know.

506
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 2: Right, And and there are AI tools that can make

507
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: reporting more easy, like when you're trying to analyze really

508
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: big data sets. Obviously can do it more efficiently, more

509
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: accurately if you know how to use it. And so

510
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: we're training our journalists in you know, data analysis and

511
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 2: the use of data and data visualization and all of

512
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: those things. But the point is we're doing this in

513
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 2: partnership with our journalists. We're not obviously trying to replace

514
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,880
Speaker 2: human beings. We're not trying to use AP to do

515
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 2: sorry AI to do the actual reporting.

516
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: But you know, it's funny you say that AI shouldn't

517
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: used like AP was used by a lot of local

518
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: news organizations for too long and it ended up I mean,

519
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: talk about your Freudian slips. I actually think it was

520
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: a wonderful mispake because that was how you knew a

521
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 1: local paper had given up when you saw nothing but

522
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 1: wire copy on its front page. I mean that used

523
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: to be the that was oh it's a wire copy paper,

524
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: never mind. I mean literally that's the way I would feel.

525
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, I mean definitely was somebody.

526
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: An AI could end up. And that's the point. AP

527
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: was our version of commodity news. AI is going to

528
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: be this generation's version of it.

529
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 2: And we think our value proposition again is really you know,

530
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: our people, Our people are important. Our people are doing

531
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: this work. They're making it, you know, better than the

532
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,719
Speaker 2: work that's happening in other places and again having more impact.

533
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: So we're going to continue investing in that and upholding that,

534
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 2: and any use of AI that we have, you know,

535
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 2: in the journalism process will be done decided, you know,

536
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: in partnership and collaboration with our journalists.

537
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the newsrooms you've chose and the ones

538
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: that you're potentially going to launch. What do you need?

539
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 1: What does a community need to have for you to

540
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: consider going you know, what you should be part of

541
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: the Deep South Today network.

542
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: Well, it's what it doesn't have to be honest with you.

543
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 2: I mean, we're looking at the places of most need

544
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: and we're prioritizing those because we want to be additive.

545
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 2: We want to go to places where we can do

546
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 2: the most good because now that we've created this infrastructure

547
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: and it's so much easier to scale, you know, and

548
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 2: and with so much more efficient Like let's take Arkansas,

549
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: for example, a place where you know, unfortunately it's sort

550
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: of headed in the direction that Mississippi was ten years ago,

551
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: where you know, the legacy media has declined. A lot

552
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 2: of local news has you know, disappeared.

553
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: And I want to I want to give a shout

554
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: out though, to the owner of the Arkansas Democratic. Is

555
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: that absolutely because I feel like they stave this off

556
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: longer than most.

557
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 2: I agree, I completely.

558
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: Made a pivot to digital quicker than most. Now, look

559
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: was it was I was I crazy about all the

560
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 1: decisions they made. I wasn't. I think that they did

561
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: some stuff that I understood why they got sold that software.

562
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: I think they got sold a bill of goods. You know,

563
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: when they were trying to make it where you'd see

564
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: the paper itself in a PDF. There were a lot

565
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: of local proprietors got caught up in hey, that our

566
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: newspapers should look exactly like a newspaper does. In the end,

567
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: it was like, actually, no, that isn't a necessity. But

568
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: the point being is early on they mitigated this. And

569
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you know them very well? And what

570
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: have you wanted? And yeah, what can you tell me

571
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: about them?

572
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: Look, I'm a University of Arkansas a graduate. I lived

573
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 2: in Little Rock for most of my adult life. I

574
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: was an elected official there. I was also in journalism

575
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 2: and other endeavors there. And I would always say, you

576
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: know that that we were so so lucky to have

577
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: the Democrat as at because it did sort of uphold again,

578
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 2: you know, this quality journalism. It wasn't wire copy to

579
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: your earlier point. I mean it was, you know, the

580
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 2: only statewide daily newspaper really and so so it.

581
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: Was and it was a robust statewide daily, like it

582
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: felt like it truly covered the state. It sure had

583
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 1: a little Rock focus, but they did they accepted the

584
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: premise they were a state wide paper.

585
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: Definitely, and and so you know, I will always say,

586
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: you know that, like I just really respect and admire

587
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: that commitment and what was what they did to to

588
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 2: keep that going. I will say, going back to like

589
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: the very first things we were talking about at the

590
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: beginning of the podcast, is this is just a tough business, right.

591
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I think like if you're trying to do

592
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: this on a for profit basis and you're trying to

593
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: do it the right way, where you're not trying to

594
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: cater to a particular ideological or audience or exclude people,

595
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: but just report the you know, the vegetables and the

596
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: protein of daily news, you're probably going to have a

597
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: hard time. And I think they've had a hard time,

598
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: and so there's been some you know, more kind of

599
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 2: unfortunate decline there. And but also there's a lot of

600
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 2: need in Arkansas because you have a lot of growth

601
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 2: in northwest Arkansas. You have obviously the capital city, Little Rock.

602
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: You've got rural areas in the Mississippi Delta part of

603
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: the state that are just lacking in news coverage. And

604
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: if you want to really prioritize where the need is, Arkansas,

605
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 2: like I said, is sort of where Mississippi was ten

606
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: years ago. It's in need of a nonprofit, you know,

607
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 2: news operation that can fill those gaps, that can work

608
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: in collaboration with the existing news media in the state,

609
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 2: which is what we're going to be doing, and provide

610
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: that essential information that people need to make decisions about

611
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: their lives and to participate in their civic life. And

612
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: the thing is, we can do that much more easily

613
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: because now instead of somebody who'd have to like build

614
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,440
Speaker 2: everything from scratch, we've already got all the infrastructure. All

615
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: we need to do is hire the editors and the

616
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 2: reporters and put them to work. And that's what we're

617
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: going to do.

618
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about Arkansas, as I was, is,

619
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: you know I talk about like, why is it important

620
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: for a small state to elect a president? I said,

621
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: because because Bill Clinton approved a new airport for Northwest Arkansas.

622
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: And I say this because what was the ultimate goal.

623
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: The ultimate goal was to prevent Walmart and Tyson's Chicken

624
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: from headquartering in Chicago or somewhere else. But it was

625
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 1: Chicago was the most likely place because you know, it's central,

626
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: and you know, it makes you you can't argue against

627
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: the logic of being in a centralized location like Chicago.

628
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: And you know, and what essentially, I don't know that

629
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: it went down this way, but you just sort of

630
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: like a Bill Clinton going, no, we'll get you an airport.

631
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: We're going to we could make Northwest Arkansas. And what's

632
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: phenomenal to me and work. I'd love for you to

633
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: take a minute, since you're an Arkansas guy and a

634
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: native and you know this state better than I do.

635
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: In the eighties and nineties, Little Rock was the center

636
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: of everything, center of power, center of culture, center of government.

637
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: And now I feel like Little Rock is just the

638
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: center of government, and Fayetteville and Northwest Arkansas has become

639
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: the sort of the cultural center. You know. Obviously it's

640
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: really sort of with the University of Arkansas being and faithful.

641
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: You've got Walmart, You've got the Tysons and both. You

642
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: have a lot of family members who chose to stay

643
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: and invest in the community. So I look at it.

644
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: It's been a remarkable transformation, and I and that's why

645
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: I go back and go. It doesn't happen unless without

646
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton becoming president. Because Bill Clinton made got them

647
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: an airport like it is. You cannot under you know.

648
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm just curious if you've seen this, if you it

649
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: looks dramatic from where I sit. I spent a lot

650
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: of time in Little Rock for obvious reasons in the nineties,

651
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: and so we all got to know. Little Rock got

652
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: the lovel I've had family in Little Rock a long time,

653
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: So I knew it a little bit before, but it

654
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: is remarkable to me the incredibly shrinking importance of Little

655
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: Rock to the state of Arkansas.

656
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I represented Little Rock in the legislature and

657
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: ran for mayor of Little Rock in twenty eighteen. So

658
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: you've just you know, pulled the string and now you've

659
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: gotten me started. And you know, I'll just say this

660
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 2: goes back to the nineteenth century. You know, Arkansas's kind

661
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: of bisected geologically. Half the state is you know, plantation,

662
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: sort of Mississippi River farmland. The other half is you know,

663
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 2: kind of Ozar Boston Mountains. And what that meant for

664
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: the economy and the politics is that like all the

665
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: wealth was in the agricultural side, you know, for you know,

666
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: the first like one hundred hundred and fifty years, the

667
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 2: plantation owners controlled you know, the politics in Little Rock.

668
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: That's why Arkansas affiliated with the Confederacy, even though everyone

669
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 2: who lived in northwest Arkansas in the mountains they all

670
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 2: sort of affiliated and sympathized with the Union, and it

671
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: created a lot of problems in the politics.

672
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: No, it's always been behaved weirdly like a border state,

673
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: even though it is never technically a border state, right.

674
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, one hundred percent. And then you fast forward

675
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: to the twentieth century, and you know, obviously as agriculture

676
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 2: gets mechanized, you have the great outmigration. People leave. The

677
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 2: Delta becomes the poor part of the state. Meanwhile, because

678
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 2: you couldn't grow anything in northwest Arkansas, that's where Sam

679
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: walton O been a general store. That's where the Tyson

680
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 2: started raising chicken kens and JB. Hunt started, you know,

681
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 2: his trucking company. And then over the next fifty years

682
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: is the agg side of the stay goos and to decline,

683
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 2: these companies I just mentioned become like Fortune one hundred companies,

684
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 2: like Fortune fifty companies. They're Walmart's the biggest retailer in

685
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: the world, Tyson's the biggest protein producer. JB. Hunt's the

686
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 2: biggest transportational logistics company like in the world. And they're

687
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: all in Northwest Arkansas. And so to your point, you know,

688
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: it became richer and it's starting to become more powerful politically.

689
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: But I will say one more thing, because I used

690
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 2: to pound my fist on the table about this in

691
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 2: Little Rock. The thing is the folks with the money

692
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 2: and the power in Northwest Arkansas about twenty five years ago,

693
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 2: they pulled everyone together and said, we have got to cooperate.

694
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: Like at the time, all the cities and counties up

695
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 2: in that part of the state were fighting over things,

696
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: and they said, we're gonna have one strategy. We're going

697
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 2: to be together. We're going to have you know, not

698
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 2: just you know, infrastructure, but culture. And it was really

699
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 2: you know, the Waltons who drove a lot of this.

700
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: But you know when you see it, Betton Villa and

701
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: Fadeviller behave like sister cities, not competitors, correct.

702
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 2: And they've got bike trails and museums and you know,

703
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 2: hotels and and they've done all this together, whereas Central

704
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 2: Arkansas unfortunately still fights with itself. And they used to

705
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: drive me crazy, and I say, that's all about leadership.

706
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 2: It's all about who's in charge and who decides to

707
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 2: exert their authority to do something good. And they've done

708
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 2: something really good in Northwest Arkansas.

709
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: No, they have. And it just feels like the it

710
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 1: just you know, you feel the pull and power, right

711
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: and when business, culture, and education all sort of are there,

712
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: the only thing that they don't have is politics, right,

713
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: is the government.

714
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 2: And they don't have the state capital, but.

715
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: Increasingly like and you can and it's and that is

716
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be an interesting source of

717
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 1: political tension. Right, you just know that this will this

718
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: will go back and forth. I mean frankly to a

719
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: much different degree. But it was sort of like, how

720
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 1: this can go. It can go sideways. Miami is the

721
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: cultural and always has been the sort of the center

722
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: of Florida, but it's never been the political capital and

723
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: political capitals. So you can it can it can sometimes

724
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: create tension there. So I bring all that up about

725
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: Arkansas because if you're starting a nonprofit journalistic organization, it's

726
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: obvious you got to start where the money is because

727
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: you got to have patrons. And yet at the same time,

728
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: you just describe where the need is, it's not necessarily

729
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: where the money people are. And this is the balance

730
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: of this witch business model. Do you pick right? Is

731
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: it a nonprofit? Is it a cooperative? Is it a

732
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: full non for profit? Is it a non for profit

733
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: which is slightly different than just a nonprofit? Right, So

734
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: I say this, am I it is how much do

735
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: you factor in? Hey, the community we're in has to

736
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: also have enough frankly wealthy patrons.

737
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well interestingly, just so you know, I mean, Northwest

738
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: Arkansas is actually where the need for journalism is more

739
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 2: acute than Central Arkansas. Like you know, when I'll tell

740
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: you when I was starting to work on this project

741
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: and I was visiting Northwest Arkansas, I just so happened

742
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: to be there like the day before a primary. This

743
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 2: was like a couple of years ago, and I ran

744
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: into somebody I knew on the street and they didn't

745
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 2: even know what I was doing, like at the time,

746
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 2: and they just like they were just relating to me. Warwick.

747
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: You know, there's this election tomorrow and I have no

748
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: idea who's running for office. I have no idea who

749
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 2: to vote for because there's no news up here. And

750
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: literally they didn't even know what I was up there

751
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 2: to do in the first place. And I just I

752
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: know this is anecdotal, but it's true. And so you

753
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 2: have this very again, the fastest growing, richest part of

754
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 2: the state doesn't have journalism. But then also you know,

755
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,479
Speaker 2: the rural parts and the poorest parts don't have it either.

756
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: And I say that to say, we're going to be

757
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: in both places.

758
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: We're going to see everyone.

759
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: Who needs it, because when I define need, I define

760
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: it in terms of need and journalism. The other thing

761
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 2: I'll just say too, is like we're in an underresourced region,

762
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: Like we don't have anything close to the wealth of

763
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 2: a New York City in La San Francisco, Chicago, DC,

764
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 2: So I take it for granted that, like we're doing

765
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: more with less here no matter what. Like we don't

766
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: have big philanthropy, we don't have a lot of wealthy people.

767
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 2: We have a handful of small, successful business owners in

768
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: our region, but nothing to the scale of other places.

769
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: So we're just going to do as much as we can.

770
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 2: And that's why we've built such an efficient business models

771
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: take advantage of these economies of scale.

772
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,200
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773
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803
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Speaker 1: What other states you've got? Arkansas?

804
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: We're going to be in Arkansas, and I want to

805
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: emphasize too, we still have room to grow in Mississippi

806
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 2: and Louisiana. I mean, we have two newsrooms in Louisiana,

807
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: but you.

808
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 1: Could be you could be in southern Mississippi. You're not

809
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: in southern missis and we're working on that.

810
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 2: We definitely want to be on the coast in Mississippi

811
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: in a bigger way. But you know, there are parts

812
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: of Alabama that need us, there are parts of Tennessee

813
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: that need us. You know, I can see Georgia is

814
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 2: a place we go in. And again, this is not

815
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 2: a manifest destiny situation where we want to be everywhere

816
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: and lick every lollipop. It's just about, you know, trying

817
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 2: to find the places where our particular model can do

818
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 2: the most good because of the region that we're in.

819
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: So are you are you convinced that nonprofit is what

820
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: it's going to be or do you envision it eventually

821
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 1: trying to create a sustainable revenue streams.

822
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's sustainable. I mean the way I

823
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: would just describe it to you is that, you know,

824
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 2: we are a civic institution, sort of the way a college, university,

825
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 2: or a museum or a performing arts institution, where people

826
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 2: understand the value that it has in the community. They

827
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 2: also understand that, like in most cases, a college, a museum,

828
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: or a performing arts institution isn't going to work as

829
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,719
Speaker 2: a for profit. You're not going to make a lot

830
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,719
Speaker 2: of money from that, but you're going to support it

831
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: with philanthropy. You're still going to charge tuition, you're still

832
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: going to sell tickets, you're still going to charge admission,

833
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 2: and those are earned revenue sources. And so we're also

834
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: going to have earned revenue sources. We have earned revenue

835
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: sources through advertising, through you know, events, sponsorship, through you

836
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: know sponsorship of things like podcasts and videos and things

837
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 2: like that. So revenue is a pillar, but it's alongside

838
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:07,840
Speaker 2: membership and alongside philanthropy to keep it sustainable. And I

839
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 2: don't think there's anything wrong with that, And in fact,

840
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,879
Speaker 2: I think it's necessary because when you look at journalism,

841
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 2: the way you can make a profit in it is

842
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,320
Speaker 2: by either really appealing to like an ideological niche, or

843
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 2: appealing to like a particular industry sector. So if you

844
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 2: want to get like all the people who really need,

845
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: you know, very specific news about Capitol Hill or very

846
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: specific news about Wall Street or about you know, Silicon Valley,

847
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 2: you can get those people, and you can charge them

848
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: like premium subscriptions because you're giving them and you know

849
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 2: this better than anybody. But for us, again, we're trying

850
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 2: to give them meat and potatoes of daily news. It's

851
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 2: the kind of stuff people don't think they need to

852
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 2: pay for, but they do need it, and we need

853
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 2: it to have a healthy government and a healthy civic life.

854
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 2: So we're doing it as a as a civic good,

855
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 2: and we're giving it away for free.

856
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: What's a What's something that you because you're right about this,

857
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: it's interesting you want to pick up on something you

858
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: said earlier, which is and I think this has happened.

859
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 1: It's what happened to the Arkansas Democrat has that it

860
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 1: arguably is sort of what Bezos has decided. How Bezos

861
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: has decided to deal with his problems at the Post,

862
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,959
Speaker 1: which is, you do have legacy costs. You've been around

863
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 1: long enough, you're going to have you know, healthcare costs,

864
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: pension costs, labor, union contracts, all sorts of you know.

865
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: There's somebody was telling me that, like, you know, the

866
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 1: Washington Post has to print ninety thousand copies minimum every

867
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: day and for a couple of like contracts or whatever.

868
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: It is, right, and there's sort of like it's a

869
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: loss leader now, right, and how on how that works?

870
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, you do develop those legacy costs,

871
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: and that happens. And there is something about Robert Albritton

872
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 1: has the luxury of being able to start from scratch.

873
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: You have the luxury starting from scratch. That doesn't mean

874
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: you you're anti union or pro union. It could mean

875
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: that you're going to probably have employees. At some point

876
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:07,440
Speaker 1: you say, hey, we'dized, and that's the thing. It's it's

877
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: employee decisions and you go from there. And I think,

878
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,399
Speaker 1: you know, there's always a there's there's a fine line

879
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: here on collective bargaining versus individ you know all of

880
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: that stuff. And I think every every news organization should

881
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: make their decisions that way.

882
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: But.

883
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: What are the I mean in some of this is

884
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: where you have an advantage, and where the Birmingham News

885
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: and the Arkansas Democratic Is that are still sort of

886
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: you know, they have obligations that they'd love to give

887
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: up on to focus on what you're doing, and they like, hey,

888
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: we're just stuck. We can't.

889
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean, you know, I again I'll emphasize,

890
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 2: I mean, we are able to be a little bit

891
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: more nimble than these legacy news organizations. And you know,

892
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 2: again I I think you know, when I look at

893
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 2: like what that they've had to do this day in business,

894
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 2: they've had to raise their subscription rates, which in poor

895
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 2: places like Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana, you know, it leads to

896
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: fewer people having access to that news and information they're

897
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 2: putting out, you know, and most of them have stopped printing.

898
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 2: In fact, you know, the Democrat Is added famously sort

899
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: of given out iPads to people, which was a really

900
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: I think innovative thing that they did.

901
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: Again, they tried things that like you see what they're

902
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: trying to do. In hindsight, it I understand why it

903
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: didn't work.

904
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, but I know, I really do admire them

905
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: for trying. It was innovative at the time. And but again,

906
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 2: like to your point, like when you've got a situation

907
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 2: where you have to please shareholders or private owners, you

908
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: have to generate a profit, and you have all of

909
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 2: these sort of you know things like you know, having

910
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 2: owning a printing press and having to to service all

911
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 2: of this you know, different kind of debt or obligation.

912
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 2: It's it's it's a difficult thing. And that's why I

913
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: really do believe in our model, like as a nonprofit

914
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 2: doing it as of public service, knowing that you know,

915
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,960
Speaker 2: the revenue we do generate gets invested right back into

916
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 2: the product. There's there's no sort of you know doubt

917
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 2: about you know, where where we're putting the money, why

918
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: we're doing what we're doing, and then understanding that like

919
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 2: going forward, we're going to be supported by our members

920
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,720
Speaker 2: who are kind of you know, our small dollar donors,

921
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 2: who you could call them the equivalent of like subscribers,

922
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 2: because these are people who are voluntarily giving a certain

923
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: amount of money per month just because they value the

924
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 2: news that we're providing.

925
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:36,719
Speaker 1: I'm a recurring annual donor exactly exactly gets you know,

926
00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 1: whatever you want to give, pay, pay what you can,

927
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: and we appreciate our members so much and they're kind

928
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:44,360
Speaker 1: of our our core foundation.

929
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 2: And then you have, you know, again, the the revenue

930
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 2: we generate through advertising and sponsorship and all of that,

931
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 2: which I think is an important pillar. And then and

932
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 2: then the philanthropy is what makes you know, the books

933
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: balance out and give us you know, also that catalyzing

934
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: opportunities to do innovation things like we just started an

935
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 2: investigative reporting center in partnership with the New York Times,

936
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: and that was something that we conceived with the New

937
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 2: York Times, but then I went out and raised the

938
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: money for it. Or Andy Lack, who you mentioned at

939
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: the beginning, who just made a very important gift to

940
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 2: us so we could further invest in our Deep South

941
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 2: Today studios and do more video and audio. So again,

942
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: but it's like when you read about a college or

943
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 2: university getting a philanthropic gift to do something awesome around

944
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,879
Speaker 2: medical research or whatever it is. Right, people are going

945
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: to understand more and more how journalism truly is a

946
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: civic institution, because without it, our democracy just doesn't work.

947
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: That's an interesting look. I will confess to being I believe.

948
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: You know, I want to try to make most of

949
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 1: these work without being a nonprofit, right I am, because

950
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 1: I think you can get donor fatigue. I'm sure you

951
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 1: hit you you know how that feels, right, you know,

952
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: and you want to you want to try to be

953
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,440
Speaker 1: able to how can you handle the lean times?

954
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: Right?

955
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 1: You know. I've got a friend of mine who's obsessed

956
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 1: with getting local news organizations to buy buildings, you know,

957
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 1: go get real estate again so that way and the

958
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: tough times you have something to borrow again so you

959
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 1: can make payroll. And I thought it was an interesting

960
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: you know that that you know, that's why ann Alden

961
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,479
Speaker 1: came in and bought all these newspapers because they wanted

962
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: the real estate you know there was that was the

963
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 1: value they saw in some of like the Denver Posts

964
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,040
Speaker 1: and it's downtown real estate or the Miami Herald, that

965
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: incredible real estate at one time in Miami. And uh,

966
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:40,240
Speaker 1: it is it is interesting. I I've not heard somebody

967
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: make the case the way you're making it, in a

968
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: really smart way that it's like, look, and you don't

969
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:48,439
Speaker 1: want to say newspapers are a museum, and I kind

970
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 1: of like, you know, but when I think about, like

971
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 1: take a let's let's talk about how the how Fayetteville

972
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: gets and gets all these people to stop at their tours,

973
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: and why do they do that, Because you do have

974
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: patrons that come in and will spend the extra money

975
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 1: to make sure feet filled, makes it onto the major

976
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: stops for musicals or plays or maybe artists tours, you know,

977
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 1: if they want to show their work, and this sort

978
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: of public private partnership anyway, it's you've articulated it better

979
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: than I've heard others in making the nonprofit case that look,

980
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: it's more of a public private partnership like a private

981
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: frankly like a private university more. It's more of a

982
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 1: private university partnership necessarily than the public because I assume

983
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: you're not looking for government money. Some do some news

984
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: organizations are hoping. You know, I'm more open to the

985
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: idea of tax breaks for local advertising than subsidy subsidizing

986
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: directly workers. But you know, I know some people are

987
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: looking to state governments for some financial subsidies for local needs.

988
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 2: You know, as a former elected official, I don't want

989
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 2: us to be anywhere near government money. I don't think

990
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 2: it's appropriate. But I also don't think it's a it's

991
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 2: a it's a dangerous game to play, I think sometimes.

992
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,759
Speaker 1: Because all the many you take it, then you're just

993
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: compromised yourself, even you don't even percent.

994
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and our job is to stay neutral and objective,

995
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 2: and and I hold people in power to account and

996
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 2: so we can't kind of be vulnerable to that kind

997
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 2: of stuff. So so no, and and again, I mean

998
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 2: I want to emphasize too, like I am all for

999
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 2: people who can make a profit doing journalism in the

1000
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 2: right way, and I want you and everybody else to

1001
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 2: be successful in that. But I do think that like

1002
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 2: in this day and age, it is really difficult again

1003
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 2: just to deliver the straight you know, essential news and information,

1004
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 2: and especially regions like ours that don't have a lot

1005
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 2: of wealth to begin with, without it being in some

1006
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 2: degree like a public trust. It's it's uh, that's why

1007
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 2: I compare it to these other institutions, because nobody begrudges.

1008
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: Now the museum and the in the in the local playhouse.

1009
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: That feels that that that makes a lot of sense

1010
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: to me, Like putting it in those categories for the

1011
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 1: private university, What do you hope to get out of

1012
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 1: local news day? I mean, I know you you're more

1013
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: than just a just a cheerleader for John Adams. You

1014
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,479
Speaker 1: guys are a partner organization, you know. I mean, look,

1015
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: it is literally what I've described it as. It is

1016
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: an awareness day. Guess what. And if you don't have

1017
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: local news, you should be asking for more of it

1018
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: right in your community. But what do you hope to

1019
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: get out of it? How do you guys want to

1020
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,719
Speaker 1: want to use the day and what do you Obviously

1021
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: John and hopes it's something that that is an annual

1022
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: event allah Earth Day.

1023
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:45,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure it will be. I mean, let me cheerlead

1024
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 2: for John for a second, even though you said I

1025
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 2: don't have to. I mean, he this was his idea

1026
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 2: and the fact that he was able to manifest that

1027
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 2: into what now it's become, which is I mean, you know,

1028
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 2: so many partners, so many.

1029
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: Ques and so much fifty or seven hundred partners or

1030
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: something only the.

1031
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 2: First year too, which means I think there's no doubt

1032
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,439
Speaker 2: it's going to be sustainable in perpetuity and it's only

1033
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 2: going to get bigger. But to have achieved this just

1034
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 2: in the first year is incredible. So kudos to John

1035
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 2: for conceiving this and inviting us all to participate. But

1036
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:19,560
Speaker 2: to your point, I mean, I think there's a lot

1037
00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: of work to do to raise awareness about local news.

1038
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:24,440
Speaker 2: I think, you know, we all have to. It's sort

1039
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 2: of like politicians who think, you know, people are paying

1040
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 2: attention to the bill that they've introduced, when really everybody's

1041
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 2: just trying to get their kids to school and get

1042
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 2: the groceries and go to work. It's the same thing

1043
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 2: with local news, Like we're obviously very fixated on what

1044
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 2: we're trying to accomplish, but most people just look at

1045
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 2: their phone and they don't usually even know where the

1046
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 2: information they're reading is coming from. Like there, it's already

1047
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 2: been through two or three like iterations, right, like somebody's

1048
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 2: reposting something that appeared somewhere else, or an influencer.

1049
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,399
Speaker 1: It's the worst game of telephone, right.

1050
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know for a fact, like we generate where

1051
00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: like we are the primary source for so much news

1052
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,799
Speaker 2: and information yet are hardly ever credited for it. Which

1053
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 2: is okay because it's just getting out in all the

1054
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 2: different ways across you know the world, and so local

1055
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 2: news day is that maybe that moment for people to understand,

1056
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 2: maybe for a split second, that you know this information

1057
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 2: comes from somewhere. It's really important. It's even more important

1058
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 2: because it's local. It's not the hundredth version of what's

1059
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: going on in DC. It's actually what's happening in your community.

1060
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 2: And were it not for us, you wouldn't know about it.

1061
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,439
Speaker 2: And it's affecting your life, you know, when you turn

1062
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 2: on the faucet or when you're you know, hope, hopefully

1063
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:35,839
Speaker 2: you know.

1064
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 1: They don't have total We've had a drinking water issue

1065
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,439
Speaker 1: in Jackson, Mississippi. I find it to be the most shameful, right,

1066
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: I find it to be the most shameful fact that

1067
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: a state capital in the United States of America didn't

1068
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: have drinking water that they could reliable drinking water, and

1069
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: our federal government just shrugs, like I found the whole

1070
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: thing to be like entire But it's like, this is

1071
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: why local news is there, this is why we're to

1072
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: pound it. It's like, you know, you got to have

1073
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: it there and look yes, and and and to make

1074
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:11,879
Speaker 1: sure you're reading local news every day. Well we'll tell

1075
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: you where to find cheaper chicken or gas or these

1076
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: other things too. Right, Like you know, there's no doubt

1077
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: you want to be the the community guide for surviving

1078
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: in your community, surviving and thriving. Right, there's the survival

1079
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,280
Speaker 1: part of journalism, and then there's the thriving part of life.

1080
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 1: We'll do that too. But you know, when you think

1081
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,759
Speaker 1: about just the small things that that Mississippi needs, you know,

1082
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: just letting people know that somebody is paying attention to

1083
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: the to Jackson. I mean, even though it's a state capital,

1084
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 1: you couldn't get state loanmakers to worry about it.

1085
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,040
Speaker 2: Right, and and and again. The reason why we are

1086
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: doing this in the first place because you know, the

1087
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 2: other news organizations have kind of you know, filtered out,

1088
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 2: and so we're sort of standing in the breach and I.

1089
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 1: Want to I want to land the plane quickly. In

1090
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: two ways. One is print dead or do you see

1091
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: a path for some print in a in the in

1092
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: the future of local news like a weekly or twice

1093
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 1: weekly or summation. And I say this, I'm sort of

1094
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 1: seeding the question here. Different local news entrepreneurs are starting

1095
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: to dabble again in some print and it's usually on

1096
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: a weekly or a twice weekly basis. But I'm curious

1097
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 1: what you guys have found.

1098
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: No, I think what you said is in zcacer. It's

1099
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,240
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know, the resurgence of vinyl and music.

1100
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 2: It's like there's going to be opportunities for niche products

1101
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 2: in print, Like it's not going to be how people

1102
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: consume their daily news. But could you put out, you know,

1103
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 2: a monthly compendium of news. Could you focus I.

1104
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 1: Think give you simply did local obituaries for the week.

1105
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: I know that sounds people. You know that is a commune.

1106
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,880
Speaker 1: I've always said, you know, the single one of the

1107
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 1: most important things you've got to do if you're going

1108
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: to be a local news entrepreneur is celebrate the lives

1109
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: in your community, and the obituary page is no better

1110
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 1: place to do it.

1111
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 2: That's right, or you know, in those areas of culture.

1112
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 2: I think you know, the coffee table presence, the physicality

1113
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 2: of it is still a value that I used to

1114
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: publish a magazine called The Oxford American, so I know

1115
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 2: the value. I remember that with a print product, but

1116
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 2: it's it's too disposable for daily news utilization. It doesn't

1117
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:21,040
Speaker 2: economics that makes.

1118
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: Sense, but you start I can start to see the

1119
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: and what's interesting. I've also heard that classifieds in a

1120
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: limited capacity are an opportunity again because of the localized nature,

1121
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: meaning there is a sense of I just want people

1122
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 1: in the community. I'm not interested in advertising. You know,

1123
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: if you're looking for a dog walker, you're not going

1124
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: to put that on indeed, right or you're not going

1125
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: to put that on Craigslist. You actually, you know, might

1126
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: do that. You know, you'd want to have a local

1127
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: So I've heard that. Let me ask one other aspect.

1128
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: The local, local independent radio in public radio in particular,

1129
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: has been gutted. We know, we know the situation as

1130
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 1: to why what does that meant? In Mississippi, a lot

1131
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: of these rural, poor communities the only source of information

1132
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: was local public radio. There's a lot of there's a

1133
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 1: lot of innovation taking place with some local radio pioneers

1134
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: that I've been curious where you guys are at. How

1135
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: much do you work with? What's left? How is the

1136
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to focus on Mississippi and Louisiana. What is the

1137
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: public radio situation like in those two places right now?

1138
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I know you've left this for the end,

1139
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: but this is actually something we've been working really hard

1140
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: on with our friends in public radio. So whether it's

1141
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 2: the local affiliates here in Louisiana, Mississippi, also Arkansas, I'll say,

1142
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 2: or whether you know, even at the regional level with

1143
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:45,919
Speaker 2: the Gulf States newsroom here and the national level, I'll

1144
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: just say, stay tuned, as maybe you would say, because

1145
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 2: we've got some really.

1146
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 1: Some real opportunities in there. I think I think there, Yeah,

1147
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: that's what I've been hopeful for that. Look, public radio,

1148
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: I'm you know, it is such a localized lifeline that

1149
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 1: there should be a partnership with local media in general.

1150
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 1: And I think there's opportunities there.

1151
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 2: And so I think the distinction between public media and

1152
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,960
Speaker 2: like nonprofit media is basically gone now that obviously disvernment,

1153
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 2: it's not really investing in that. So we need to

1154
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 2: find a way to bring it together and again find

1155
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 2: some some awesome collaborative opportunities to do what we do

1156
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 2: respectively even better together.

1157
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,720
Speaker 1: Waurick, Look, you're one of the you know, first when

1158
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:30,919
Speaker 1: I when I wanted to you know, when I left

1159
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 1: Meet the Press and left NBC and wanted to throw

1160
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: myself in local news, I think you were like the

1161
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: first person I talked to and really gave me a

1162
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: great education and doing that and and my my friendship

1163
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: with Andy. I'm obviously a huge cheerleader of what you're

1164
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 1: doing over there in general. But but you've you sort

1165
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:53,440
Speaker 1: of both You have this ability, and it's very important

1166
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: in this in this world that we're all trying to rebuild. Here.

1167
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 1: You see the local need and you see the place,

1168
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: you see what national could be, and you seem to

1169
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: be like I'm trying to figure out how to be

1170
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: in both places, and it is just there's not a

1171
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: lot of and perhaps your previous experience in publishing helps

1172
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: with that, but I think you sort of see this

1173
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: in a way. There's a few yourself, There's my friend

1174
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: John Ralston out in Nevada. There's only a handful of

1175
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:22,640
Speaker 1: people that sort of both see the micro and macro

1176
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 1: at the same time. And I think that's a that's

1177
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, that's what makes a good publisher. You've got

1178
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 1: to be able to do both both left brain and

1179
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:31,919
Speaker 1: right brain stuff. So kudos to you, and I can't

1180
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: wait to see what you guys do next.

1181
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:35,439
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. That's a high compliment. And I'll just say,

1182
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm so glad you're in it. It's great

1183
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 2: to be in it with you, and I really appreciate

1184
01:00:39,880 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 2: this opportunity to have this conversation, so thank you.

1185
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: All right, April ninth, Local news Day. What it really

1186
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: means is, if you're in Mississippi, sign up for a

1187
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: yearly subscription to Mississippi Today, or if you're in Louisiana,

1188
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: sign up for give me. Give me the names of

1189
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: the pubs Verite News and the Current Baritae News, and

1190
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 1: the Current is in Lafayette. That's correct, And I know

1191
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:04,040
Speaker 1: say La fa Yette right, that's great that we gotta.

1192
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 2: Come down and visit and eat some of our good

1193
01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 2: food too.

1194
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: There's always always work. This is terrific. Thanks for the time.

1195
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Chuck, this was a pleasure. I appreciate

1196
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:18,080
Speaker 2: you got it. H