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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel and I am Matt, and today we're discussing

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Speaker 2: the diminishing returns of frugality.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Joe, Just like you learned at a very

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Speaker 1: young age that there's only so much candy that you

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Speaker 1: can eat before your tummy starts to hurt.

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Speaker 2: I still remember getting a five pound bag of runs

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Speaker 2: from I think SAMs Fall back in the day he rose.

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Speaker 2: But the one thing some people love the banana runs.

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Speaker 2: The banana Oh see, you picked all the banana runs.

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Speaker 1: I talked about this before you and we would have

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Speaker 1: been a good combo even at a very young age. Yes, no,

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Speaker 1: we So we are talking about frugality, which, in my

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Speaker 1: mind is sort of like this superpower. It's this universal

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Speaker 1: tool that you can apply to almost any area of

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Speaker 1: your life, but it does have his limitations. If you

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Speaker 1: lean into it too hard, you are going to see

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Speaker 1: some of those diminishing returns. And so that's what we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about today, the proper way to approach

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Speaker 1: this idea of frugality. But man, you know, I was

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Speaker 1: actually real quick before we get started here talking about that.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about our wives, the ladies they got together,

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Speaker 1: took all the kids evidently to Whitewater today. For those

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Speaker 1: who aren't around Atlanta, that's our our local water park,

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Speaker 1: water Slides. I think people around the wait TrooLS or

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Speaker 1: at least around the least they know about this water

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Speaker 1: park because it's on like a travel channel Top ten

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Speaker 1: water parks in the country and stuff like that. Is

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Speaker 1: it really yeah yeah, oh I haven't been in maybe

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Speaker 1: like back, I feel like it's kind of passed its

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Speaker 1: prime a little bit. Yeah, they could spend some money

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Speaker 1: on it and make it a little bit Well, I

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Speaker 1: haven't been back yet.

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Speaker 2: We just got the season passes, but I'm looking forward

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Speaker 2: to checking it out with the kids because it's been

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Speaker 2: probably twenty five years since I've been.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So the reason I wanted to bring

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Speaker 1: it up was because I think it's worth considering. So

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Speaker 1: it's summer activity season, right, like kids are out of school,

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Speaker 1: and as you go to different theme parks and different

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Speaker 1: you know, like the museum, different things like that, they

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Speaker 1: always have like, hey, you could spend this much money

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Speaker 1: on a single ticket, or where you can get the

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Speaker 1: season pass for this much more. And this is just

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Speaker 1: a quick tip for everyone out there, actually do the

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Speaker 1: math and see whether or not it makes sense for

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Speaker 1: you to spend a little bit more now if you're

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Speaker 1: actually going to take advantage of that season pass or

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Speaker 1: like an extended pass, like y'all just got the like

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Speaker 1: through the end of the summer pass or whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's like a few months worth for a much

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Speaker 2: cheaper rate. But we're like, all right, if we just honestly,

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Speaker 2: if we go two times, it pays for Yes, I

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Speaker 2: saw that.

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Speaker 1: So literally it's thirty with six flags, it's thirty five

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Speaker 1: dollars a ticket, or you spend sixty dollars this extended pass,

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Speaker 1: and so we don't want folks to miss out on that.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's only a deal if you

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Speaker 1: actually take advantage of it. And so if you get traveling,

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Speaker 1: you might not want to get like six season passes,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, pick one or two right and then like

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Speaker 1: using abuse those things and then get something else next here.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing I think that's a good strategy is

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Speaker 1: the ability to focus on Like back when we're living

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Speaker 1: in town, we got that zoom membership, hit that pretty NonStop.

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Speaker 1: Back when we had a fern Bank Museum membership, we

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Speaker 1: would do that NonStop. You don't need to do them all,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, focus on one. Maximize the value that you're

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Speaker 1: getting out of that. We were actually we were at

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Potanical Gardens earlier this week, and it was fun

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Speaker 1: to run into a listener. There's a teacher there from Gainesville.

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Speaker 1: Oh nice, she heard me talking to one of the

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Speaker 1: girls and she says, wait a minute, it's always fun

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Speaker 1: when that happens. It doesn't happen a ton, so it's

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Speaker 1: still kind of this novelty I guess that you and

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Speaker 1: I can enjoy. But yeah, shout out to she was

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Speaker 1: super nice. So cool anyway, But I do think that

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Speaker 1: is a good strategy. Don't spread yourself too thin. Focus

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Speaker 1: on a few season passes or memberships where you are

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Speaker 1: going to be able to maximize that value for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then next year make it the year of

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Speaker 2: the Zoo Potanic Gardens aquarium, like switch it off and

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Speaker 2: then don't forget. Obviously you've never done the aquarium before.

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Speaker 1: It's great.

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Speaker 2: The downside of the aquarium is you have to pay

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Speaker 2: for parking every time, or you just have to like

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Speaker 2: find a free parking place to park and walk right

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Speaker 2: away so and hope your car still there.

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Speaker 1: Right, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Put, Natty, we're are all the wheels. It's cheap if

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Speaker 2: you get towed, it's not if you don't, right, But yeah, no,

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Speaker 2: I think that's a good tip, and it's always fun

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Speaker 2: to rotate, try something different, you know, not do the

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Speaker 2: same thing here after year. And don't forget too fourth graders.

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Speaker 2: You get your whole family into national parks for free.

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Speaker 2: So if you have a fourth grader, get that free

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Speaker 2: national park pass and maybe make it the year of

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Speaker 2: like a bunch of National park visits. That's a good

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Speaker 2: way to kind of plan this summer or your year

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Speaker 2: plan on the summer. Yeah, exactly, I love it. All right, Well,

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Speaker 2: let's mention the beer we're having on this episode, Matt.

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Speaker 2: This one's called The Void of Perspective that became you

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Speaker 2: and me by Burial Brewing No surprise by Burial.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to get with a name like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is a Burial beer, so ridiculously intense names.

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Speaker 1: We are continuing our tour of amazing IPAs from Burial.

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Speaker 1: We will share our thoughts at the end of this episode,

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Speaker 1: for sure. All right, let's move on to the subject

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Speaker 1: at hand, though, Matt. We're talking about the diminishing returns

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Speaker 1: of frugality. How frugality rocks, but it has its limits, right,

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Speaker 1: And even though I'm not super fashion conscious, Matt, I

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Speaker 1: still like clothes, but I buy a a lot less

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Speaker 1: clothing than I used to. I used to hear fashion

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Speaker 1: conscious enough to get by yeah, like nobody's gonna look

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Speaker 1: and but to not get made fun of. I hope

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Speaker 1: at least that by the other dads. Yeah, but people

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Speaker 1: probably also don't aspire to dress like me. Let's be

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Speaker 1: let's be honest. And I used to spend more money

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Speaker 1: than I do now on clothing. I used to take

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Speaker 1: the more as merrier approach, right, buying stuff when it

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Speaker 1: was on sale. I just cared about the price tag,

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Speaker 1: not necessarily whether I love the item or whether I

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Speaker 1: was gonna like wear it a lot and so. But

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Speaker 1: it turned out then that I was getting a lot

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Speaker 1: less enjoyment out of the stuff that I owned. With

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Speaker 1: each additional item that I was adding to my closet,

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Speaker 1: I was seeing diminishing returns. Right.

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Speaker 2: I liked those items less, so I wore them rarely.

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Speaker 2: And it's not it probably didn't fit you all that well. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was the case for a lot of them, or

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Speaker 2: sometimes at cheaper clothing, it becomes misshapen or warped just

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Speaker 2: a lot. So because it's the material quality is not there.

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Speaker 2: The quality's not there. Yeah, And so it's not that

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Speaker 2: buying clothing is bad. It's just that what I was

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Speaker 2: doing and the way I was doing it, it didn't

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Speaker 2: make much sense. And so I reconsidered my approach, and

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Speaker 2: now I find that I like my wardrobe more. Right,

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Speaker 2: I cleaned out my closet and I removed a lot

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Speaker 2: of the items that I didn't really like or wear.

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Speaker 2: I kind of indiscriminately purged a lot of those items

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Speaker 2: that I bought at a deep discount that I wasn't

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Speaker 2: gonna wear anymore.

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Speaker 1: And now there are.

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Speaker 2: Fewer items for me to choose from when I'm in

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Speaker 2: my closet, but or just pulling out my drawers. I guess, really,

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Speaker 2: but I like them a whole lot more. And so

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I guess just like they're diminishing returns

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Speaker 2: to each additional item of clothing you on, because really,

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Speaker 2: there are only so many outfits you can wear. I

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Speaker 2: think frugality is kind of similar. I mean, don't get

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Speaker 2: me wrong, you and me, we're fans of saving money.

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Speaker 2: We are frugal fellows, we would say, But it's also

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Speaker 2: it's a financial tool that can't fix everything that ails you.

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Speaker 2: We have to know the limitations of frugality so that

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Speaker 2: we can experience the benefits without going too hard in

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Speaker 2: that direction.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, And I actually think that that's the

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Speaker 1: rub because there's a certain subset of personal finance folks

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Speaker 1: out there who think that frugality, that it's the answer

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Speaker 1: to all of life's money problems. Kind of reminds me

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Speaker 1: of did you ever watch my that Greek wedding long

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Speaker 1: time ago back in the day, super Well, it feels

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Speaker 1: like it's an old movie at this point. It feels

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Speaker 1: like it it's twenty years old now, right, Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: But in the movie, like every ailment, it can be

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Speaker 1: cured by some wind decks, whether poison, ivy psoriasis. Similarly,

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Speaker 1: some frugality. It's a great thing, but it's only going

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Speaker 1: to get you so far, and after a certain point

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Speaker 1: you are getting less bang for your buck, and you're

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Speaker 1: going to be better served by focusing on some other

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Speaker 1: core tenets of personal finances, you know, going back to

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Speaker 1: what you're saying about clothes, not only will you get

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Speaker 1: less enjoyment out of buying more and more clothes, but

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Speaker 1: at a certain point, someone they could actually buy so

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Speaker 1: many clothes that they're just sick of it. It becomes

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Speaker 1: a liability and you know, maybe they're even repulsed by

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Speaker 1: the thought of it. And so our goal today is

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Speaker 1: to certainly highlight the importance of frugality, of being frugal,

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Speaker 1: but to also point out that there are diminishing returns

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Speaker 1: of frugality as well. And you know, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, a healthy embrace of frugality is what's required.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're going to be discussing today. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're always trying to strike that healthy middle balance point, Matt.

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Speaker 2: And yet it seems like the loudest voices are preaching extremes,

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Speaker 2: and so we will preach the happy medium continually because

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Speaker 2: that's what we believe, and that's the way we try

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Speaker 2: to live, the extreme middle where we like to live exactly.

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Speaker 2: And it's better, of course to be frugal than to

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Speaker 2: be a spend thrift. Yeah, it's a good thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's something we don't want people spending more

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Speaker 2: than they make. That's a crucial part of getting your

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Speaker 2: personal finances together is to reduce what you spend and

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Speaker 2: to hopefully increase your income at the same time. The

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Speaker 2: truth is that developing a frugal mindset is going to

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Speaker 2: save you more than just money. Also, right, it lends

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Speaker 2: itself to kind of a general contentedness and attitude of

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Speaker 2: just being happy with where you are. There's something about

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Speaker 2: frugality that is going to do more for you mentally

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Speaker 2: oftentimes than just financially. And when you're less consumption oriented

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Speaker 2: in general, right, that's a good thing. And so even

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Speaker 2: if your income is robust, wanting less and looking for

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Speaker 2: ways to save regularly on the purchases you're making, not

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Speaker 2: giving into the excesses that you could be partaking in

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Speaker 2: just because you have the bank account to back you up.

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Speaker 2: It's you're cultivating something on the inside that I think

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Speaker 2: is healthy and good. You can potentially take that to

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Speaker 2: an extreme, and I think, you know, I wouldn't say

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Speaker 2: the majority of how the money listeners probably fall into

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Speaker 2: this camp, but it's something to be aware of because

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Speaker 2: frugality is possible to go overboard, and.

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Speaker 1: You can take it too far. You can take it

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Speaker 1: too far, absolutely, but Okay. So one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: we love frugality right and just finding some different ways

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Speaker 1: to cut back is basically because it's a move that

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Speaker 1: virtually everyone out there can make, that they can partake in.

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Speaker 1: You can literally spend less money and start saving more today.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't take much, if any research at all. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't require opening a special account like some of the

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Speaker 1: other money moves that you can make, like investing requires.

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Speaker 2: That you've got to kind of understand the tax implications

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Speaker 2: of opening a rock versus contributing to your four oh

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Speaker 2: one k yeah, match, and the vesting options and all

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Speaker 2: that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, when it comes to you spending less money,

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Speaker 1: it's just the absence of doing something right right, Like literally,

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Speaker 1: it's just like not doing the thing that you want

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Speaker 1: to do because it gives you that, you know, that

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Speaker 1: that short lived high, that sugar rush and frugality like

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Speaker 1: it doesn't require you to go and get a four

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Speaker 1: year degree, you know, like this is something you can

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Speaker 1: implement today immediately. It's this democratic approach that is available

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Speaker 1: to everyone out there. And you know, we talk about

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Speaker 1: all sorts of ways to save money here on the show.

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Speaker 1: It makes me think of an episode we did seven

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Speaker 1: seven ways to save money this week. We'll link to

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Speaker 1: that one in our show.

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Speaker 2: Not it's a bunch of practical things that people could

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Speaker 2: do literally, like seven while we did seven was one

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Speaker 2: thing per per literally yeah, for a week and like it,

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Speaker 2: you'd be amazed at how much money you could save

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Speaker 2: in just a week.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, But I mean literally even beyond that,

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Speaker 1: the simplest way to save money is just it truly

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Speaker 1: is the absence of taking action. It's avoiding taking action

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Speaker 1: by not spending your dollars. But there are things that

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Speaker 1: you could do literally today that is going to allow

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Speaker 1: you to save yourself money, not only immediately, but just

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Speaker 1: on an ongoing basis. When it comes to some of

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Speaker 1: these recurring bills that you can eliminate from your life,

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Speaker 1: or maybe not eliminate, but even reduce significantly, that's going

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Speaker 1: to have a big impact on your bottom line. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Finding ways to cut back and be frugal on expenses

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Speaker 2: that you incur every single month, that's going to be

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Speaker 2: even more powerful, right than just a one time expense.

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Speaker 2: Got a multiplier, yeah, exactly. And frugality is a principle

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Speaker 2: that we can apply to virtually every expense in our lives,

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Speaker 2: we can always ask the question, is there a way

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Speaker 2: to do this activity, to buy this thing, or to

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Speaker 2: make this happen for less money than I was otherwise

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Speaker 2: going to spend. I actually love that exercise.

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Speaker 1: Personally, Right, I was gonna say, I feel like there's

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Speaker 1: no other question that is like imprinted on the back

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Speaker 1: of your eyelids, that question. It's like cool, can we

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Speaker 1: do it for cheaper? Right? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: No, And that is kind of how my mind works.

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Speaker 2: So I am. I would say I'm actually like a

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Speaker 2: recovering extreme frugilite, right. I think for some years I

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Speaker 2: was too heavy in that direction, and so part of

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Speaker 2: this episode is really me talking about what I've learned

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Speaker 2: to a certain extent, like you and I have both

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Speaker 2: learned to this, right. But I think from personal experience,

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Speaker 2: I used to be too frugal, and I've found that

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Speaker 2: there were some limitations, there were some diminishing returns to

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Speaker 2: how frugal I became. So but I do think that's

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Speaker 2: an important question for us to ask, like is there

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Speaker 2: a way that we can do something for less money?

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Speaker 2: And it's it's always helpful to at least ask the

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Speaker 2: question to see whether you can cut back in one

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Speaker 2: way or another, and we're not all going to come

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Speaker 2: to the same conclusions about where we decide to cut

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Speaker 2: or reduce our expenses.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: It makes me think of Matt. We just talked about

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Speaker 2: cutting your hair at home. Some people will say, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's ridiculous and there's no way I'm going to do that.

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Speaker 2: I take great pride in my appearance or something like that, right,

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Speaker 2: And and other people will say, you know what, I

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Speaker 2: hadn't really thought about that. A twenty dollars pair of

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Speaker 2: clippers and thirty minutes of my time on a Saturday afternoon,

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Speaker 2: and boom, I'm saving myself twenty five bucks a pop

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Speaker 2: in perpetuity.

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Speaker 1: They're thrilled, that's a recurring expense. Well, I guess unless

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Speaker 1: you go bald. Yeah, this is a recurring expense. This

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Speaker 1: is something that is going to pay dividends literally forever, right, right.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's a lot of people but just

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Speaker 2: asking the question is helpful. It's a helpful, frugal response,

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Speaker 2: even though you might not necessarily make the same choice

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Speaker 2: as Matt or I or as some of your fellow

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Speaker 2: How of Money listeners. That's okay, but that question is

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Speaker 2: so important it's so powerful, I think the ability to

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Speaker 2: be creative and to consider the many different ways that

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Speaker 2: you could save money. It's one of the factors that

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Speaker 2: makes frugality such a major superpower in your personal finance.

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Speaker 1: Arsenal. Yeah. Yeah, it's endlessly customizable. And that's what's so

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Speaker 1: great about it too, is you can take it and

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Speaker 1: you can apply it to not only the different expenses

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Speaker 1: that you have in your life, but the different expenses

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Speaker 1: that you want to apply it to. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to apply it to everything, but it's worth considering and

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Speaker 1: seeing how much you could save because I will say,

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Speaker 1: if you're able to reduce and you know, be frugal

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Speaker 1: and reduce the expenses of maybe some bigger ticket items

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Speaker 1: in your life, well you're going to see there's going

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Speaker 1: to be a bigger return on your investment in that way. Right,

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Speaker 1: If you are able to be frugal when it comes

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Speaker 1: to housing and transportation, healthcare, education, some of these large

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Speaker 1: take items, you're going to see an outsized return on

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Speaker 1: being frugal in those ways. But if you don't want

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Speaker 1: to go that route and instead you want to just

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Speaker 1: kind of cut back in lots of other small ways,

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Speaker 1: well that's totally fine too. It is totally up to

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Speaker 1: you as an individual.

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Speaker 2: It's like, choose your own adventure, yes, and and some

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Speaker 2: people say, you know what, my own adventure includes a

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Speaker 2: luxury vehicle that's one or two years old, like, and

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Speaker 2: that's totally that's fine. That's not what Matt and I

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Speaker 2: signed up for. That's not how we roll. But we

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Speaker 2: also realize that it's your prerogative, right, And if you

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Speaker 2: want to live a life where you drive a nicer car,

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Speaker 2: but you're able to cut back in all these other

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Speaker 2: areas in order to ensure that you're still able to

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Speaker 2: save and invest right while at the same time driving

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Speaker 2: that nicer ride, that's that's really it's your choice and

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Speaker 2: it's all good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, So okay, So going back to you mentioned

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Speaker 1: the haircut example, which I love the multiplier impact, right,

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Speaker 1: because like, that's what's so great about frugality is because

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Speaker 1: it not only allows you to begin saving and investing

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Speaker 1: more money now, but just by maintaining a frugal lifestyle

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Speaker 1: into retirement, it effectively means that you you need to

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Speaker 1: set aside less money in order to actually become financially independent.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes we refer to this as like a double edged sword,

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Speaker 1: but really, if you think about it, it's more of

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Speaker 1: like a triple edged sword because that possible. Does that

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Speaker 1: then become like like a three dimension but like frugality now,

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Speaker 1: like that means spending less and then being able to

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Speaker 1: save more in the near term, right, Like that's essentially

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Speaker 1: typically the double edged sword, but it also means more

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Speaker 1: years of financial freedom over the long haul, because that's

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Speaker 1: an expense that you no longer also have to prepare

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Speaker 1: for off in the future. So it's helpful in the

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Speaker 1: here now, but then it also allows you to spend

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Speaker 1: less money in retirement, which is a massive win as well.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that makes me think. Earlier this year, there

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Speaker 2: was an economist, James Choy. I think he's from Yale

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Speaker 2: or something like that maybe and some really smart place.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. He's much smarter than we are, like

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Speaker 1: much more well trained. But that means he's not hanging

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Speaker 1: out here with us having amazing craft beers. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: He's short sighted in that fact. But like he was

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Speaker 2: arguing in his study, based on a bunch of data

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Speaker 2: that he said that that we should all basically seek

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Speaker 2: to spend a higher percentage of our income in our

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Speaker 2: youth in relation to what we're making, and then a

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Speaker 2: smaller percentage in our later years. He's basically making an

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Speaker 2: argument that we should be smoothing out our consumption.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the term, Yeah, how to use and assumption smoothing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we should be a little more willing to maybe

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Speaker 1: even take on some debt in our earlier years because

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Speaker 1: we're always going to make more money, right and be

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Speaker 1: able to pay that debt off, and we just don't

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Speaker 1: want to deprive ourselves too much when we're in our

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Speaker 1: early twenties. But one of the problems with his argument

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Speaker 1: is that you'd be fast tracking your lifestyle inflation to

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Speaker 1: a higher level than what you and I would recommend

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Speaker 1: in those early years, and then you're allowed and actually

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Speaker 1: supposed to keep that consumption level basically the same throughout

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Speaker 1: the decades. So very little lifestyle inflation because you're just

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Speaker 1: smoothing out that consumption across a bunch of years. And

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Speaker 1: it sounds okay in theory, Like, I get why he

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Speaker 1: proposes something like this on PAP. This is like totally

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Speaker 1: an academic way to think about things.

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Speaker 2: Yes, if you're not taking into account human psychology, right,

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Speaker 2: which is that people actually do right exactly, and so

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Speaker 2: it sounds good in theory, but in practice this is

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Speaker 2: much more difficult to pull off for a lot of folks,

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Speaker 2: and so embracing frugality early on then hanging on to

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Speaker 2: it at least keeping some of those frugal habits around,

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Speaker 2: that's going to lead to better outcomes for most people.

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Speaker 2: The earlier you develop some of those frugal habits, the

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Speaker 2: more inclined you're going to be to keep them in

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Speaker 2: your life for years to come. If you kind of

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Speaker 2: start off rejecting frugality out of hand completely, then and

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Speaker 2: then then you try to like become frugal in your

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Speaker 2: late thirties early forties sort of thing, it's gonna be tougher.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be a big hill of climb.

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Speaker 1: It sounds so tough, right, yeah, because again I get

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Speaker 1: it in theory, Okay, So it makes me think of,

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Speaker 1: like we've talked recently about putting the toothpaste back in

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Speaker 1: the tube, how difficult that can be, and specifically we're

401
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Speaker 1: talking about it in regards to electric doors on a van.

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Speaker 1: How when you've got kids, it's a very nice thing

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Speaker 1: to have. It's a luxury that I am willing to

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Speaker 1: spend on. And once you experience that, to go back to,

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Speaker 1: you know, manually sliding doors like that's it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: just difficult.

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Speaker 2: But if you've never experienced it, it'd be different exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: were you to never have experience. I think it's just

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Speaker 2: natural to as you get older, to want to experience

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Speaker 2: luxuries in life and different niceties.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's easy to stay at a hostile when you're

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Speaker 1: twenty one. It's harder to do that, yes, when you're

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Speaker 1: forty years old, exactly, And so the same thing. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a natural progression that it's just unnecessary to

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Speaker 1: fight when you don't have to write. So just basically,

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Speaker 1: don't allow yourself to have some those luxuries early on,

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Speaker 1: but then allow yourself over time, as you do see

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Speaker 1: your net worth increase, to then start sprinkling in some

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Speaker 1: of those luxuries. I think that's the biggest argument. I

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Speaker 1: guess my biggest beef with the consumption smoothing argument by

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Speaker 1: pulling some of that consumption into your life earlier on,

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Speaker 1: is that's that should be exactly when you have the

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Speaker 1: ability not only to hustle and make more money, but

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Speaker 1: to also put up with other inconveniences like sleeping on

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Speaker 1: someone's couch while you're traveling.

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Speaker 2: Let's be honest, you're also really hoping for the best

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Speaker 2: or predicting that everything's going to stay the same exactly.

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Speaker 2: And I've personally personally gone through the experience where of

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Speaker 2: you know, where my parents they were told, Okay, well

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Speaker 2: buy house. It's a little more expensive than you can

431
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 2: afford because you're you're clearly going to get raises, like

432
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,920
Speaker 2: your income's going to go up, and pretty soon it'll

433
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:19,920
Speaker 2: feel like not a big deal that mortgage, right that

434
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,080
Speaker 2: that mortgage, It feels like a stretch right now, You'll

435
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,399
Speaker 2: grow into it, right and then guess what, dad loses

436
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 2: his job.

437
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:25,520
Speaker 1: Boom.

438
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,399
Speaker 2: It just changes the whole, you know, financial trajectory of

439
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,040
Speaker 2: their future. And so yeah, you're you're also that consumption

440
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 2: smoothing is assuming and predicting really that all everything else

441
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,959
Speaker 2: stays the same, your income continues to go up, and

442
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 2: that at some point you have more wiggle room to

443
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 2: make some of those changes. But we're also not promised that,

444
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,320
Speaker 2: and so that's where frugality can be helpful.

445
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 1: It's where it comes to the rescue. Yeah, essentially, well, Okay,

446
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,399
Speaker 1: So honestly, like up until this point, folks are thinking,

447
00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 1: wait a minute, I thought this was the diminishing returns

448
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,320
Speaker 1: of frugality, a thing to say like singing the praises

449
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,880
Speaker 1: of frugality. But yes, if you lean into it too far,

450
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,439
Speaker 1: too hard, it's actually going to come back, and we

451
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 1: think it'll bite you in the butt. So we're going

452
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 1: to talk about some of the downsides to frugality, and

453
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: we'll get to all of that right after this.

454
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 2: All right, we're back and Matt comes start frugality bashing.

455
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,160
Speaker 2: Are you ready for this to kick its butt?

456
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:22,679
Speaker 1: Let's do it.

457
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 2: Let's take fugality to task. No, I mean, of course,

458
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 2: like we we just sung its phrases, frugality flexing your

459
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 2: frugality muscle is is such an important thing, and we

460
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,359
Speaker 2: don't want you to forget about it or or not

461
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 2: tap that tool that's in your personal finance arsenal. But

462
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 2: the truth is, there's only so much you can do

463
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 2: to tighten your belt, right, and the more you tighten,

464
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 2: the less you are able to breathe, if you like,

465
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,400
Speaker 2: In a little situation where you continue to tighten your belt,

466
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 2: at some point you cut off your oxygen.

467
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: Flow. At some point you lose your pass feeling in

468
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: your legs exactly.

469
00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 2: So it's just it's just not good. Right, there's at

470
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,480
Speaker 2: some point you've just gone too far. And the same

471
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 2: thing is true of frugality, right, you can't cut anymore

472
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: past a certain point. It's tough to continue living a

473
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: bare bones existence forever. And changing where you shop for groceries,

474
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 2: I would say that's like a smart version of frugal, right,

475
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,119
Speaker 2: whether you're going to Winco or all the or legal

476
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 2: like what Trader Joe's is another really good one. Like

477
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 2: wherever you're going to shop for groceries, maybe making that

478
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 2: one switch from Whole Foods or I don't what are

479
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 2: the other really expensive grocery stores that we don't go

480
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 2: to now, Yeah, wherever you're shopping that's way more expensive.

481
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: I don't even know. We've not something that, right, we prioritize, but.

482
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 2: Going from one of those, just making that one switch

483
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,600
Speaker 2: is smart frugal. But here's the example. Maybe that would

484
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 2: be the opposite of that, going ridiculous frugal or too

485
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 2: frugal only eating rice beans and ramen, right, that that

486
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 2: would be frugality run amuck, which is fine for a

487
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 2: short period of time, like in particular, if I mean,

488
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 2: I do think if you're getting out of debt and

489
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 2: that's an important goal for you, then cutting back in

490
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 2: all the different ways is important. But when it's this

491
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:06,399
Speaker 2: indefinite sort of suffering and you're just grinding out that frugality,

492
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 2: that's when it feels like it's not something you're able

493
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 2: to sustain. Although if you're talking about the fancy ramen,

494
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,120
Speaker 2: I mean I spend top dollar to go to those

495
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,280
Speaker 2: nicer ramen shops, right, Yeah, I guess it's just a

496
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,520
Speaker 2: cheap top ramen, right that, Yeah, probably can't live on

497
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 2: for too long.

498
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: But you break into bricks, yeah, and eat without cooking

499
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: it and sprinkle the seasoning in the back. You've done that, right, Yeah.

500
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,879
Speaker 2: It's nice every once in a long while, but you

501
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,200
Speaker 2: don't want to make that your regular habit.

502
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: When're just loving it, when Emily's gone for the weekend,

503
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: you're just like, I'm just going to break this off

504
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 1: and eat it. Occasionally. I've done it, but I try

505
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: to talk about it. It's been a minute.

506
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 2: But there's like there's this clear line in the sand

507
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 2: where frugality provides diminishing returns and if we go too far,

508
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: we're likely to miss out on some really important life stuff,

509
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,919
Speaker 2: or to rebel against frugality altogether, really right, resuming our

510
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 2: consumption heavy ways. I think if you, if you go

511
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: too far down the frugality rabbit hole, at some point,

512
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 2: your body might like reject it wholesale because you've just

513
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,719
Speaker 2: gone You've gone so hard, and you're just like this sucks,

514
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 2: this is no fun, and you might just revolt going

515
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: back to your your spendthrift ways because frugality maybe didn't

516
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: work out for you, but it's probably because you went

517
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: too hard, too fast down that.

518
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 1: Path, Yeah, and you just end up throwing in the towel. Yeah, Okay.

519
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: So I think an unhealthy approach to frugality is when

520
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: you don't have the right information and knowledge on hand, right,

521
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: Because in that case, I think frugality can then just

522
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: be this default behavior in order to be quote unquote

523
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 1: safe with your money. Right Like, in this case, frugality,

524
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 1: it might be based in fear rather than just the

525
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: cold logical facts, like rather than do just like the

526
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: mathematical understanding that you might need to cut back in

527
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: order to save up enough for a down payment on

528
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 1: that first house. And I think some of that might

529
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: stem from perhaps childhood experiences with money. Jill, you kind

530
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: of already mentioned a story from your past. Maybe someone

531
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: grew up and they were just told often that, hey,

532
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: we just can't afford to do that, and so that's

533
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: just like it was a script, right, It's something that

534
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: was replayed anytime there was something that you wanted, and that.

535
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: Becomes your knee jerk reaction. Then it's like, I can't

536
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: afford that. That's how you view things. That's what you

537
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 2: were told so often when you're growing.

538
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,239
Speaker 1: Up, and you either adopt that or I think sometimes too,

539
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: you can completely It's like you were saying, you reject

540
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,479
Speaker 1: it altogether and you could end up on the other

541
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: side of the spectrum. But I think it could also

542
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: just be a hang up that someone may have developed

543
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: in even an early adulthood, maybe with like the first

544
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: job that you scored, maybe it offered you a meager salary,

545
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: Maybe that was an impressiable time in your life. But

546
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: either way, making money decisions based on fear, it's just

547
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: not healthy. And honestly, we've been talking about this a

548
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 1: good bit recently, but we want folks to do some

549
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 1: internal digging we want you to ask the question, are

550
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: you being overly frugal because you're afraid? Because you are

551
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: basing your decisions, maybe not even knowingly, maybe it's just

552
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: in your subconscious but based on how it is that

553
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 1: you feel towards money rather than what the reality of

554
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: the numbers in your SPA sheets when it actually shows.

555
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've been guilty this a lot. That just

556
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 2: like kind of being overly frugal because I was fearful.

557
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: And the truth is, when you map out the worst

558
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 2: case possible scenarios, typically for most people, they're not nearly

559
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: as bad as you think they are. I was talking

560
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 2: to my mom about that the other day. She literally

561
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 2: just retired last week, so happy for congrats Mom, And

562
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,239
Speaker 2: I was like, are you pumped? Are you excited? And

563
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 2: she said, well, I'm more nervous. And she's just nervous

564
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 2: about the money side of things. And I get that

565
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: the paychecks stopped coming, and it makes sense like I

566
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 2: would probably be nervous too, And because of that, it's

567
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 2: it taints their relationship with money too, which is which

568
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 2: stinks because I think spending money can be a joyful

569
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: thing if we allow it to.

570
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: Be exactly Yeah, Okay, so I think if you're obsessed

571
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: with maybe you know, living as frugally as possible, I

572
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: think you're also going to be less focused on some

573
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: more powerful personal finance levers like growing your income. And

574
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: of course this isn't applicable to those who have just retired,

575
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: but for everyone else out there. Like, the reason I

576
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: say that I think it's a more powerful lever is

577
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: because unlike spending less, where there's only so far that

578
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,120
Speaker 1: you can cut back, right, like you just talked about

579
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: how there's only so much tightening up the belt that

580
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: you can do, there's the possibility of almost no limit

581
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: to earning more money. And we don't preach like a

582
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: Tony Robbins esque message here, there certainly is power and

583
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,439
Speaker 1: visualizing something we get that you can't just like manifest

584
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: a fatter paycheck. But that being said, it is possible

585
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: to have like essentially what we're gonna call frugal tunnel

586
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 1: vision right where you're only focused on the different ways

587
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: that you can cut back, and you are missing out

588
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: on some of these other levers that can dramatically in

589
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: some cases increase the health of your personal finances. Frugality

590
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: is most definitely a tool, but so is increasing your

591
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,359
Speaker 1: skills to move up the career ladder or negotiating for

592
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 1: more pay. We don't want you to neglect these other

593
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: ways that you can reach your financial goals, like making

594
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: more money.

595
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: If you're so for really minded. I think that's what

596
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 2: happens to ultrafrugal folks is they're so concerned about pinching

597
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 2: pennies that maybe they're missing out on some of those

598
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 2: thirty thousand foot changes that they can make.

599
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: Exactly. They're just so in the weeds and they can

600
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: have a bigger impact. They've got that scarcity mindset versus

601
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: what the abundance mindset. I guess yeah, And.

602
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 2: I think lots of times it feels great to save

603
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,400
Speaker 2: ten dollars extra on a pair of shoes or something

604
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 2: like that, but you're maybe saving pennies here, but you're

605
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: missing out on dollars over there. And that is probably

606
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 2: the biggest potential downfall for anybody who's.

607
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: Overly focused on frugality.

608
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: And we've talked about spending less, matt and earning more,

609
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: but there's something else that you need to do with

610
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 2: your money if you want to grow it for your future.

611
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: That's to invest it right and one of the downsides

612
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,879
Speaker 2: to becoming overly focused on cutting spending and bulking up

613
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: your savings is that you might be less inclined to

614
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 2: invest your money. And this is another thing that people

615
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 2: who are too frugally minded run into, I think regularly. Right,

616
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 2: they run the risk of adopting a horder like mentality

617
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: when it comes to their money. So I think when

618
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: you're so focused on protecting your money that you keep

619
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: it locked up in a super safe savings account, risking

620
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 2: none of what you've been able to save, well, that

621
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 2: can have some downsides too, Right, having some money liquid

622
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 2: is important, it's necessary. But what happens when you're so

623
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: frugal that you just avoid investing altogether because you've seen

624
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 2: downswings in the market. And guess what that frightens you.

625
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: And so you say, you know what, I'm gonna stick

626
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 2: with the safe plan, which is just to keep my

627
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: money locked up in a savings account. Well, you're doing

628
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 2: better than you were for the past fifteen years right now,

629
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: which is good, But your money isn't growing at the

630
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: rate that it needs to be, right because inflation slowly

631
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: erodes the power.

632
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: Of those dollars over time.

633
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, be frugal, prioritize savings, but don't neglect to

634
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: invest for decades down the road too. That's what you

635
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,720
Speaker 2: need to be doing with those dollars. And I just, yeah,

636
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 2: I've seen too many people who major in frugality minor

637
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: in some of these other things that move the needle

638
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 2: in a big way when it comes to Yeah, they're

639
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 2: overall net worth and their ability to reach financial independence.

640
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think if you're too focused on forget as well, Like,

641
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: one of the ways that you're going to see diminishing

642
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: returns with frugality is that you're going to be less

643
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: likely to invest in yourself. And so whether that's getting

644
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: a degree that can broaden your career prospects leading to

645
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: the ability to earn more money like we just talked about,

646
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: or even just personal experiences that are going to enrich

647
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: your life. I think having just a two frugal mindset

648
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: can cause you to avoid parting with money, even if

649
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 1: it's ensuring that more money is going to come your

650
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: way in the future, because you're so focused on the

651
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: here and now, you can't take that long view granted.

652
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: The way that Americans take on college debt, it's gotten

653
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: seriously out of control. We want folks to keep their

654
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: college debt to a minimum, but don't neglect investing in yourself,

655
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: and there's ways that you can do it without spending

656
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 1: a ton of money. Thrusting money into your personal development

657
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: I think will result in pretty epic financial but also

658
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: just non monetary results over the years as well. I

659
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: don't want to like down the road and when I

660
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: think about myself in five ten years, I don't want

661
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: to be the same person that I want to. You

662
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: know who I am now, with just maybe a little

663
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: bit more money on hand, I want to be.

664
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: I don't want you to be the same person even

665
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 2: I won't be. Please change dramatically quickly, Okay, No, I'm

666
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 2: just kidding. Well, yeah, I think you're right, and I

667
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: think it's easy to be to be so frugal that

668
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: you forget about, yeah, all those other things that make

669
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 2: life awesome, right, And sometimes that can be just in

670
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 2: a personal development sense. It's not choosing not to go

671
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 2: to that conference because it costs too much money, even

672
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 2: though the connections you might make could far away from

673
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: a personal and from monetary perspective, the costs that you

674
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: threw into going on that trip, But the same thing

675
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 2: can be said of just like personal relationships and stuff

676
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 2: like that too, and life experiences as you can have

677
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: with the people that you love. I think you might

678
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 2: be tempted to forego a destination wedding or or potentially

679
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 2: avoid taking a family trip that could have produced would

680
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: have produced incredible memories for you. And the ultra frugal

681
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 2: person says, yeah, I don't know. I need to pad

682
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: my savings a little bit more, and they can become

683
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: and I speak from personal experience, not trying to call

684
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: anybody out, they can become a basket case on the

685
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: topic of money that they neglect a funnel money into

686
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: the areas of life that matter a whole lot. And

687
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: I feel like I have speaking of changing, right, I

688
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 2: have changed so much even since we started this podcast.

689
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: But I used to be more shortsighted letting dollars and

690
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 2: since rule more of the decisions in my life. And

691
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: I think frugality brought me a long way in terms

692
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: of personal finance progress. But it had its limits, and

693
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: I had to realize the limits that frugality imposed on

694
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 2: my life because it was preventing me from achieving and

695
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: enjoying a whole lot a whole lot of other things

696
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 2: where nothing that cost me a ton of money even, right,

697
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: it's not like it prevented me from driving a Lambeau.

698
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: Yeah it does, because that's just a ridiculous expense. But

699
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: there's all sorts of things that I was missing out

700
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: on that really, in the grand scheme of things, didn't

701
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: cost a ton but provided really accruede to me a

702
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: whole lot of like joy, happiness, meaning right, And so

703
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: I just think I'll say.

704
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: You look much more joyful and meaningful, much more robust

705
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: human being today than you were at first started. I

706
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: hope so well. And you, you know, you were just

707
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: kind of talking about you said something about relationships and

708
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: maybe the impact that it could have there. It is

709
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: hard to sustain this a lifestyle of extreme frugality and

710
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: still have friends. Right, You're going to find yourself saying

711
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: no to things that you know you really could afford

712
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: to do, all because you're just too focused on building

713
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: up that massive nest egg. That is when frugality morson

714
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: to being cheap. And you know, it's one of the

715
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: ways that we do divine being cheap when it negatively

716
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: impacts those around you. And so in this in this way,

717
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: we want you to look outside of yourself and to

718
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: look to those around you and how your tendencies, or

719
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: maybe your tendency to not spend, might be negatively impacting

720
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: the relationships of not only those in your family, but

721
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: your friends as well.

722
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: And let's be honest, it's kind of a tough tightrope

723
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: to walk, right. We've had a listener question I still Rember.

724
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: I don't remember what the listener's name was, but this

725
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: was maybe a few months ago, and she talked about, well, man,

726
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 2: my family wants to go on six vacations this year,

727
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: and it's pretty expensive.

728
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: Because getting kind of spendy.

729
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, why I prioritize family time but also prioritize my

730
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: finances simultaneously. And I get that it's a tough line

731
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: to walk, but it's one that we really have to

732
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: wrestle with. And if we're overly frugal, we'll miss out

733
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: on some really important moments. But if we're too uncautious, right,

734
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: we might go in the other direction and spend money

735
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: that we don't have, which would not be good either.

736
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: So it's I think the fact, as long as you

737
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: are thinking about it, whether you come down on this

738
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: side or that side. That's totally up to you. It's

739
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: just that we don't want you to arrive at one

740
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: of those destinations without having thought about it. I think

741
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: that's the risk that you run when it comes to

742
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: potentially damaging relationships, right Because if you are, say, giving

743
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: up the ability to get to know your family a

744
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: little bit better because you're opting out of a cruise,

745
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,160
Speaker 1: but that means that you're going to be able to

746
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: save up some more money for that down payment, I

747
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: think that's okay to make. Like There's always going to

748
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 1: be trade offs in life, right, Like, there are sacrifices

749
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: that you make, as long as you are making those

750
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: sacrifices consciously and intentionally, Yeah, for sure.

751
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: And I just want to mention one more thing where

752
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 2: I feel like frugality can cause us to maybe be

753
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: too myopic, and that is when we don't value our

754
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 2: time enough. This is another challenge that ridiculously frugal folks face.

755
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: They might not believe that in their head that their

756
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: time doesn't matter, that it's not valuable, but they end

757
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 2: up living it out with their actions. They'll do almost

758
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 2: anything to save a buck, yep, even if it means

759
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,320
Speaker 2: spending precious amounts of time that they'd rather spend hiking,

760
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: playing games with friends, or just reading a book, not

761
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 2: even something that produces an income or produces returns, but

762
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,200
Speaker 2: maybe just something that they would love to do, right,

763
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 2: And so they spend maybe too much time couponning, or

764
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 2: it's that classic example of driving another like two miles

765
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 2: to save ten cents a gallon on gas or something

766
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,959
Speaker 2: like that. And when we don't value our time enough,

767
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: we're really squandering what is an even more important resource

768
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: at the end of the day. And the more we

769
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 2: can kind of understand how limited and how valuable our

770
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: time really is, the more it might actually shift our

771
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 2: mindset on frugality. And you might end up paying for

772
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 2: things that you otherwise thought were ridiculous, or you might

773
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 2: spend a little extra here or there if it stops

774
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: you from having to make two or three runs to

775
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 2: different grocery stores and get it all in one place.

776
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: And then again, these are things I've had to adapt

777
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 2: to because I was the kind of guy who was

778
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: so frugal I'd go to three different grocery stores to

779
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 2: save an extra ten bucks. And now I'm like, wait

780
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: a second, that's crazy. I'm almost, Matt. And this might

781
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: sound ridiculous. I've almost gotten to the point where I'm

782
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: down to pay for grocery delivery because I'm like, wait

783
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: a second, if this is gonna and I I'm the

784
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: kind of guy, like I said, I like to pick

785
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 2: out every single apple individually, like I want the best,

786
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 2: but because I feel like you're back on the farm, right,

787
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: But I'm kind of like getting it. Coming around to

788
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: the fact that time is so valuable, is that it

789
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 2: might be worth the extra money to have those groceries delivered,

790
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: take it off my plate and not have to think

791
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: about it, and just not go to the grocery store

792
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 2: at all anymore.

793
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: Even get it. I do love the well so I

794
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: mean the older we get. I think this is something

795
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: that folks come to more naturally as well, because when

796
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: you're younger, you think I've got all the time in

797
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: the world, even though the amount of time, amount of

798
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: life if you have left, is not guaranteed, right, Like

799
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: we could all die next week, and so like when

800
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: you are comparing how much money you have versus the

801
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: amount of time you have, one of those is most

802
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: definitely more limited than the other. And I don't know,

803
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,919
Speaker 1: maybe it's just the passing of time and the older

804
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: you get you realize that, like, oh my my gosh, Like,

805
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 1: what do I want my life to look like? It's

806
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: not necessarily how much money that you can set aside,

807
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: but what do I want to spend my time doing?

808
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: And as long as we are intentionally choosing what it

809
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: is that we're spending our time doing and shaping and

810
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: designing our lives, I think that is what's most important.

811
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about what it looks like to embrace

812
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: frugality in a healthy way, Matt, Like, what are the

813
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: tenants of frugality that we should incorporate so that we

814
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: can be frugal but not overly frugal. We'll talk about

815
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: that next.

816
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: All right, now that we spent the whole last segment

817
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: kind of bashing on frugality a little bit, let's talk

818
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: about a healthy embrace of frugality. Because of course, you'll, like,

819
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: we're speaking out on both sides of our mouth. Sometimes

820
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: we do that often here on the show, because like, yes,

821
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: frugality is it can be a good thing. You don't

822
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: want to take it too far, but it's pretty great

823
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: reducing your expenses. That is a powerful tool. In your

824
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: personal finance arsenal. We all know that we applod folks

825
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: out there, you know, who are asking for a discount

826
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: to save a few bucks. We'd love to see you

827
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: slash the recurring expenses like what you spend on cell

828
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: service and insurance. Those recurring expenses every single month or

829
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: every year. Those are meaningful dollars that you can claw

830
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: back into your life and making moves like that it's

831
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,879
Speaker 1: one of the keys to growing that gap so that

832
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 1: you are able to invest more of your income, allowing

833
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: you to reach financial freedom sooner and freedom this is

834
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: one of the best things that money can buy, right,

835
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: and so we want your you to have the ability

836
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 1: to distance yourself from your work off in the future

837
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: so that you have the ability to spend your time

838
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: like you want to spend it. So now we'll give

839
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: you our thoughts on how it is that you can

840
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: be frugal without going overboard to the extent that you

841
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: experience some of those diminishing returns you we've talked about.

842
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: You want to find that sweet spot, right. You don't

843
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: want to go so hard that like every additional frugal

844
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 1: act really nets you very very little. You want to

845
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: find Okay, how can I maximize my frugality and not

846
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: go too hard to ar I'm spending too much time

847
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: thinking about it with too little actual financial return to

848
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: your life. And so let's talk about maybe a few tenants, Matt,

849
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 1: that we have for embracing frugality in a healthy way.

850
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 1: One is to be frugal, not cheap. So don't allow

851
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 1: your frugality to enter into cheap territory. Like when your

852
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: pension for saving money negatively affects other people in your life,

853
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: it's gone too far. And this doesn't mean that you

854
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 1: should buy your kids everything they want. Right And they're saying, listen,

855
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: dad or mom, you're being cheap because you're not going

856
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: to buy this thing for me. No, clearly that's not

857
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: what we're talking about, but heard you talking about it

858
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Yeah, let this negatively impacts what it

859
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: is that I get to play with.

860
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 2: Better buy me that name brand thing or that new

861
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: stuffed animal that I want, or know what we're saying. No,

862
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 2: but if you're not tipping well, or you're not allowing

863
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 2: your partner to spend on experience and stuff that matter

864
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 2: to them, you've probably gone too far. You start to

865
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: flirt with cheapness, when you're overly focused on saving a

866
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 2: buck now as opposed to thinking longer term.

867
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay, Well, going back to what you're saying

868
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: about clothes, I think what this means is taking the

869
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: long view, and so I think sometimes what that might

870
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: mean is spending a little bit more because you're buying

871
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 1: something that's quality, even though it might cost you more

872
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: in the near term, knowing that it's something that you're

873
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,840
Speaker 1: gonna wear often and something that you're going to receive

874
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: a lot of value and satisfaction over same thing with

875
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: the season passes. It might cost you a little bit

876
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: more now, but if that means a if you have

877
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: the bandwidth or the margin to be able to absorb

878
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: an expense like that, well over the course of the year,

879
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna come out way ahead by spending a little

880
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,719
Speaker 1: bit more now. I think that's the difference between being

881
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,919
Speaker 1: overly focused on the near term versus kind of taking

882
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: that longer term mindset. But we do want you to

883
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: save money where you can. I think that's a healthy

884
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 1: aspect of embracing frugality, because even though we want you

885
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: might be paying a little bit more for quality, just

886
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: paying full just because you can. Like, that's not necessarily

887
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: a badge of honor. Yeah, right, Like that's like anti frugality.

888
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily like embracing frugality in a healthy way.

889
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 1: It's like not thinking about price and hitting purchase no

890
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: matter what exactly. Well, it makes me like buying new

891
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: versus when you could easily buy used. That's not something

892
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 1: that we want to encourage if there is that used

893
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,400
Speaker 1: option there for you, right, Like searching for a coupon code,

894
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: waiting for a better sale to buy that item that

895
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: you really want. Like, these are all great behaviors, and honestly,

896
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: even just challenging your assumption about what it is that

897
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: you need, there's a big difference between your needs and

898
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,280
Speaker 1: your wants. It makes me think back to our conversation

899
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: with Katie walk Stanley. She's got this motto and it's

900
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: a great one for frugal folks to live by. Her

901
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: motto is use it up, wear it out, make it

902
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: do or do without. And again she's calling into question

903
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 1: what it is that we think that we need versus

904
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: what it is that we can get by with. And

905
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: I do think it's possible to take this too far, right,

906
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: Like Katie she lives a different life than we do,

907
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: but I think it can be a helpful guide. And

908
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: what's cool is that it is up to us. We

909
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: get to personalize what it is that we want our

910
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: lives to look like. Like, she wants to reduce her

911
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: carbon footprint, and she is intentionally embracing that frugality, and

912
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: to us that seems something that she does might seem

913
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: a little bit cheap, But all that is is a

914
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: different a difference in goals and what it is that

915
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: she wants her life to look like, because it's a

916
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: different informed vision. Yes, to her, it's worth every action,

917
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: everything that she rescues from the curb, anything she pulls

918
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: out of a dumpster, because that is getting her closer

919
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,800
Speaker 1: to the world that she wants to live in. And

920
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that's worth mentioning because even

921
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 1: though something might seem like something that might seem cheap

922
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: to me, might be the next person's frugal life that

923
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: they want to intentionally live by.

924
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So one other thing if we're talking

925
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 2: about embracing frugality from a healthy, healthy perspective, would be

926
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: to be careful about becoming habitually frugal and of course.

927
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 2: You know, embracing a degree of frugality can be a

928
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 2: great habit to develop in order to reach your financial goals.

929
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: We've seen how it can be a difficult habit to

930
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 2: shake though. What it's time to actually start spending some

931
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 2: of that money. Yeah, it makes me of our conversation

932
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 2: with Brandon the Mad Scientist.

933
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and he's like, hey, well we had another

934
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: recent ask out of money where the guy was just like, like,

935
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: when can I start spending my money? Yeah? Although I

936
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: guess in his case he was ready, like he had

937
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: like it was more about the nuts and bolts as

938
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: opposed to what you're talking about. It's more of like

939
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: a like an attitude. It's giving yourself permission, sort of

940
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: making that switch from saving and earning to actually saying,

941
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 1: all right, it's time to start spending my money. Yeah.

942
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 2: I mean to some naturally frugal folks, it's going to

943
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 2: take some work in order to give yourself the permission

944
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: that you need to spend that money. Really, like knowing

945
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 2: your craft beer equivalent, which is something we talk about

946
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 2: all the time on the show, Matt. I mean, yeah,

947
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: asking the question what are you spending money on? Intentionally

948
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: and proactively. And if you can't think of anything, and

949
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 2: when you ask yourself that question, you're probably leaning way

950
00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 2: too hard in the frugal direction. So I think we

951
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,720
Speaker 2: should all find ways to spend money in a way

952
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 2: that brings a lot of joy, that brings a lot

953
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 2: of value into our lives. And if we can't don't

954
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: have a good answer to what we're intentionally spending money

955
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: on that's bringing us joy, then we should probably go

956
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 2: back to the drawing board and do some soul searching,

957
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: because we should be spending money in ways that you

958
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: deliver a return.

959
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so what's out the crux of what you're

960
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: talking about is knowing what it is that will bring

961
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: you that return. And ultimately, I think it's harder to

962
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: say no to frugality as opposed to yes to some

963
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: of other life goals, right, Like, it's hard to say

964
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: no to something that you know is going to make

965
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: you wealthier unless you've identified something that is going to

966
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 1: make make you wealthier in other ways in life. And

967
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: so what are some of the other things that you're

968
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: wanting to accomplish in life? What is the actual purpose

969
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: for the money that you've been saving up? Because for

970
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 1: some folks thinking through what you want to spend your

971
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: money on, like it's going to be really easy, but

972
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: sort of like you're saying, Joe, like for others out there,

973
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: for the ultra frugal lights, this might prove to be

974
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: a really difficult exercise. And so I think a way

975
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 1: to brainstorm just to think through some of the different

976
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: arenas of your life where it is that you could

977
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: spend money, Like so think about relationships, the different friendships

978
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: that you have. Spending on other people is what we're

979
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: talking about here. But this doesn't even necessarily have to

980
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 1: be money that you're spending, but even just time that

981
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 1: you're giving up, like just grabbing coffee or grabbing a

982
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: beer with a friend. If that's an area of your

983
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: life that you're saying, man, I don't as like interm

984
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: middle age, I don't have as many friends as I

985
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 1: would have imagined that I would have, or like there's

986
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: always those different questionnaires that go out where they're like, hey,

987
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 1: if you had to call somebody in the middle of

988
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: the night for an emergency, do you have somebody other

989
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: than family perhaps that you could call on. I think

990
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 1: that's an important question to think through it, Like Giz

991
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: there somebody like that that you could count on.

992
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: And by the way, you could always buy your friend's

993
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 2: beer coffee too. That's like a great yeah se yeah, yeah,

994
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: that's like that going even a little bit further than

995
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 2: just making the time for it and then exactly being

996
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: generous with the people around you. That is such a

997
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: great exercise because I think it helps us, like you

998
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: could still be frugal and be generous simultaneously.

999
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: Totally, yeah, and so so yeah, relationships the people around you.

1000
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: But then like another area that I like to think

1001
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: through is my physical health. Right, Like you know, all

1002
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: we talk about for the most part here is like

1003
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: financial health. We talk about money, but there are these

1004
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 1: other aspects of life again, these other arenas, and I

1005
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: think your body, your physical health, is an aspect as well.

1006
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: And so what this means oftentimes is does this mean

1007
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,160
Speaker 1: it's now time to pay for a membership? This is

1008
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: something I finally came to the realization of. Like I

1009
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: was saying that I prioritize my physical health and that

1010
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: I could I could do these different exercises for free

1011
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 1: on my own, but I wasn't actually doing it, And

1012
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 1: so for me, it meant the buy in of actually

1013
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,280
Speaker 1: signing up, or maybe.

1014
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 2: If you don't have that physical health, by the way,

1015
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 2: it's really hard to enjoy your financial health later in

1016
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 2: life exactly.

1017
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,760
Speaker 1: Or for other folks out there, they're really into foods,

1018
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: so maybe that means just like buying higher quality foods

1019
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: as opposed to like the absolute cheapest stuff that you

1020
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: can buy at aldi, which there's nothing wrong with that,

1021
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 1: that's something we still do. But other arenas in life,

1022
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: so like maybe like when it comes to religion or

1023
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 1: being spiritual, I think this is maybe one less about spending,

1024
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 1: but it does emphasize earning less money and maybe being

1025
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: slightly less quote unquote productive because you're going to church

1026
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 1: or maybe you're going to synagogue once a week rather

1027
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: than working. These are just all different ways that we

1028
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: can think about the other aspects that make life rewarding

1029
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: outside of just growing your net worth. And actually, you know,

1030
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: we talked about this back. We did an entire episode

1031
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: dedicated to creating a money mission statement. This is something

1032
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,839
Speaker 1: that you may have heard us talk about, but if

1033
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: you have not yet done this, we're serious about this.

1034
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: This is like, this really does matter if you are

1035
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: able to identify some of these other goals in life

1036
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: that you want to achieve outside of your finances. It

1037
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: is so important to focus on those things because that

1038
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 1: will then inform how it is that you spend your money.

1039
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 2: If you don't have a why, a light at the

1040
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 2: end of the tunnel, a thing that you're shooting for,

1041
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,919
Speaker 2: a kind of a lifestyle goals, like ways of moving

1042
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 2: through this life that you are like actively searching after

1043
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 2: you are going to keep doing the thing you've been doing.

1044
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 2: You're not going to take a path that offers greater

1045
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 2: levels of resistance. You're not going to make any changes ultimately.

1046
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 2: And so yeah, that money mission statement, having that developing

1047
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: that why, kind of doing some of that inner work

1048
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 2: is really going to help you realize and see, Okay, cool,

1049
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: am I being too frugal? Or am I maybe I

1050
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: haven't been frugal enough because I haven't implemented this tool

1051
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: that's going to help me reach these other goals that

1052
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 2: I have for myself from a financial perspective. Part of that,

1053
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 2: Matt is the thing we talk about all the time

1054
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 2: is the craft beer equivalent, Like, what are those two

1055
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: or three things that are worth spending a heck of

1056
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,919
Speaker 2: a lot of money on right now? That a whole

1057
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:36,479
Speaker 2: lot of other people would say, well, that's a silly

1058
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 2: way to spend money. Why why would you do that?

1059
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: What is that in your life? That's a good question

1060
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: to ask and maybe see if there are ways that

1061
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: you can redirect existing expenses to increase your ability to

1062
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 2: spend in those ways, to increase the joy that you're

1063
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 2: getting from the money that is flowing out of out

1064
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 2: of your accounts every month, Like where that money goes

1065
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 2: should be a reflection of your values, And it's a

1066
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: good thing to question, well, is it is that the

1067
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 2: case right now? Now? Am I spending so much money on

1068
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 2: this and this line item? And boy I could care

1069
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 2: less about that stuff, But man, I'm really not able

1070
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 2: to spend on this, this and this, And if I

1071
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: could just kind of like move some things around that

1072
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 2: my spending would would then be a better reflection of

1073
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: who I am. So yeah, I would take a look.

1074
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: Can you readirect some of those funds to ensure that

1075
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 2: they reflect what you care about more closely? That can

1076
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,439
Speaker 2: look like cutting back on eating out to the tune

1077
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: of a few hundred bucks a month so you can

1078
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,960
Speaker 2: actually afford to take that family vacation right or ditching

1079
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 2: a car from your life so you can free up

1080
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,359
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars allowing you to take like a work

1081
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,160
Speaker 2: sabbatical for three months. Who knows, like that is intensely personal,

1082
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 2: But well, that's the best part is the fact that

1083
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:41,800
Speaker 2: it is personal, right, and we all get to decide

1084
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: what it is that we want our lives to look like, Like,

1085
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 2: this is the creative side of personal finances that I

1086
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 2: think oftentimes gets overlooked because it's like, oh, personal finances,

1087
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: that's just about the money. It's like, well, no, there's

1088
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: the whole behavioral, psychological aspect of personal finances in your money.

1089
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 2: But then there's also the personalization side of it and

1090
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 2: the fact that we are all seeking after different things

1091
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 2: in life.

1092
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's the part that hopefully can make

1093
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: a more impactful, like longer lasting impact on your life,

1094
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,360
Speaker 1: is because you're anchoring it to something that you truly

1095
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: care about, it that somebody else cares about, more emotional

1096
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: and creative than we give it credit for. Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

1097
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: And so ultimately we want you to have these like

1098
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: essentially like a bigger vision beyond just saving money. It's

1099
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: not just about the dollars, it's about truly like what

1100
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,240
Speaker 1: are all these dollars for? And frugality it's one part

1101
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 1: of the equation, But if you focus too long and

1102
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: too hard in that direction, you're likely going to miss

1103
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: out on the other side of the equation, which is

1104
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: spending your money in ways that are going to bring

1105
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: you joy. We shouldn't feel guilty about spending within our means,

1106
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: you know, Like, honestly, the money stories that make me

1107
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: the saddest are the ones out there where there's like

1108
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: a janitor or a librarian dying and they happen to

1109
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 1: have millions in the bank. They didn't make a whole

1110
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: lot of money, They lived such a frugal existence, and

1111
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 1: they because of that, they amassed a fortune. And that's

1112
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: kind of sad unless, honestly, they found ultimate fulfillment in

1113
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: doing that. If if that was something that they intentionally chose,

1114
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 1: I'm totally cool with that. But for if they didn't

1115
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: give it the thought, if they didn't think bigger, like

1116
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: what is it that could potentially bring me more joy,

1117
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 1: that's when I think that they're perhaps missing out.

1118
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,760
Speaker 2: I think I think lots of times it was extreme

1119
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 2: frugality without the realization that man, I can do some

1120
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 2: really cool with that, but not just spending on myself.

1121
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be or on you exactly findling consumption.

1122
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: Because even if they're planning to give it away, man,

1123
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: how much joy would that have brought you to proactively

1124
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: give that away and to maybe even see the impact

1125
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: of what your dollars could have done. And you mentioned

1126
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,919
Speaker 1: mad fientists earlier, and I think I cut you off,

1127
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: but I think in our interview with him, he talked

1128
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: about the fire community and how unfortunately a lot of

1129
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: times all the fire folks the financial independence retire early.

1130
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: They want to hang out with each other and like

1131
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: talk about fire stuff. And if that's what you're doing,

1132
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: you're missing the point. That's what you've in this case,

1133
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: like you've raised fire up to the point to where

1134
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 1: it has become the end as opposed to the means

1135
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 1: to the end. In this episode, what we're talking about

1136
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: is frugality. And if you have elevated frugality so much

1137
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: that it becomes the end and not the means to

1138
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: the end, well, then we think that you're missing out

1139
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: on a whole light, a whole lot of what it

1140
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: is that life offers that makes life actually.

1141
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 2: Fulfilling and That's why, even though Brain is part of

1142
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 2: the fire movement and you and I are not necessarily

1143
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: all about it, there's certain things we respect about it,

1144
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 2: certain things we really do appreciate it. There's a lot

1145
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: of good advice in that realm. I think part of

1146
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 2: the reason we connect with Brain and so deeply is

1147
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 2: because we share so many other things in common, not

1148
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 2: just kind of a respect and care for about the

1149
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 2: topic of money. So you know what, that's why I

1150
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:36,479
Speaker 2: like craft beer.

1151
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: Craft beer, which is that what maybe like seventy percent

1152
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,959
Speaker 1: of our conversation revolved around craft beer when we're hanging

1153
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: out with them in person, not on the pod, not

1154
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: on the actual interview, yet well throughout the whole rest

1155
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: of the time we were just talking about beer.

1156
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 2: Wait, we were talking about so much other stuff though,

1157
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 2: live in life, in his life in Scotland and stuff and.

1158
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: Kids and yeah, different priorities. Yeah, but we did definitely

1159
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: have a coffee. We've spent a lot of super nerdy

1160
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,399
Speaker 1: craft beer tasting nerding out on coffee as well. But yeah,

1161
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:05,760
Speaker 1: that's that's what's important. We don't want you to lose

1162
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,439
Speaker 1: sight of what it is that you're truly seeking after,

1163
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 1: and you become obsessed with the numbers. Make sure that

1164
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 1: you keep that in its proper place. Make sure that

1165
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: that continues to be the means too. Whatever it is

1166
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 1: that your end is to you. But Joel, let's go ahead.

1167
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: Is that it you want to talk about the beer? Now,

1168
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: let's do it. Okay. This is the void of perspective

1169
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 1: that became you and me. This is a double ipa

1170
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: by Burial. What your thoughts on this one, buddy? Okay?

1171
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 1: This one had like cotton candy sweet kind of vibes

1172
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 1: going on. Am I wrong? It says dream candy on

1173
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 1: the back.

1174
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 2: I know, I think that's what tipped my brain in

1175
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: that direction. But I do think it definitely was more

1176
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 2: sweet than the rest of their IPAs that we've had.

1177
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it so is. The last Wednesday when we had

1178
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: the one that made that we were talking about it

1179
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 1: was almost like a fresh hot It was kind of

1180
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 1: like sparkly and kind of efferveescent and bright. In my mind.

1181
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:00,759
Speaker 1: This one goes along. It's it's in that same vein

1182
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 1: as opposed to some of the Burials IPAs, which are

1183
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: super earthy and vegetable. This one is it's got those

1184
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: higher notes.

1185
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:08,759
Speaker 2: This one almost takes it like hop syr up to

1186
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 2: me like it had like you just had a lot

1187
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: more sweetness going on to it. I guess it did,

1188
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 2: and so I don't know. I enjoyed it, but it's.

1189
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: Not as much as Yeah, maybe last week's exactly. So

1190
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: maybe that's why I really really like it, Like I'm

1191
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: a little bit sweeter, and I don't think it's I do.

1192
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: I have been cutting back on my sugar intake. I'm

1193
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: trying to be a little bit healthier, but I did. Yeah,

1194
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: I definitely definitely like this one. And I don't know

1195
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: dream Candy. I don't know if that's a collaboration or

1196
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe we'll look it up and link

1197
00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 1: to it in our show notes. But regardless, yet another

1198
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: fantastic ipa. Buy our friends up there at Burial, and

1199
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,120
Speaker 1: I just call them our friends because I think we'd

1200
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 1: get along even though we don't know anybody personally up

1201
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: there at Burial. But if you are a fan of

1202
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 1: IPAs and you have not had some of these amazing

1203
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 1: IPAs by Burial, we would highly recommend them for sure.

1204
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 2: Super tasty ll Matt, that's going to do it for

1205
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 2: this episode. Listeners can find show notes up on the

1206
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 2: website at howtomoney dot com. You can also find our

1207
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 2: credit card tool there. Just click the link in the

1208
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,040
Speaker 2: upper right hand corner. You'll get there and you'll find

1209
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: hopefully the best credit card for how you spend for

1210
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: cash back or travel or whatever you're looking for.

1211
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,399
Speaker 1: Whatever it is, the different benefits that you're looking for

1212
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: if you are able, of course, to use a credit

1213
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 1: card in a responsible way, which means not caring a balance.

1214
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,239
Speaker 1: We're talking to the advanced users of credit out there,

1215
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: But Jiel, that's going to be it for this episode, Buddy,

1216
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:28,880
Speaker 1: until next time, best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,