WEBVTT - NJ Chief Innovation Officer on Solving Public Problems 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.200 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:09.120 Quick Takes Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio. Our loyal followers 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:12.240 know that we love talking about innovation and disruption impacting 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.080 our world, our investment world in particular. Our next guest 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.000 to spent our career looking at innovation too, and how 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:20.680 it intersects with government. I've been looking forward to this. 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:22.759 Joining us right now is Beth Simon Novak. She is 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.360 the first Chief Innovation Officer of the State of New Jersey. 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.200 She was the U S Deputy Chief Technology Officer for 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:33.360 Open Government and led President Obama's Open Government government initiative 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.200 at the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy. 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.479 She's got a new book out. It is called Solving 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:41.400 Public Problems, A Practical Guide to Fix our Government and 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:43.919 change our world. She is on the phone in New 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.279 York City. Beth, Welcome to Bloomberg Radio. Hi Carol, Thank 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.159 you for having me. It is so great to have 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:52.760 you here. We do talk a lot about innovation and disruption, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.160 not just from an investment perspective, but how it is 0:00:55.200 --> 0:01:00.400 either improving the livelihood of individuals and citizens around the world. 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:03.560 Tell us about your background and how it set the 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.679 stage for this book. Oh Well, my background, I have 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.280 been both a professor of engineering and a professor of law, 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:13.880 and I've had the pleasure to serving government both at 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:15.800 the federal level and now at the state level, and 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.800 work with international governments around the world, and my capacity 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.240 as director of the govern Lab, and that's where we've 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:24.040 gotten to see and especially something we've all witnessed out 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:28.000 during COVID. We've gotten to see countless failures and bungles, 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.760 really the problems what happens that happened when government doesn't 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:33.959 work well. But at the same time, we've gotten to 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.479 also see a lot of successes and we've come, I think, 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.640 to really realize how important it is to how how 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:42.160 important it is to really have government that works. So 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:44.080 in my own background, especially when I was in the 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.880 Obama administration, we got to see how much of a 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.600 difference it made when people started to do things like 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.440 use open data, which we were putting online for the 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.000 first time to help solve problems in a more evidence way. 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.800 What it meant to actually use new technology to then 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:02.240 go out and engage with citizens, to use with some 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.920 people calling Human Center Design to really ask citizens about 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.440 the problems that we're facing and how we can deliver 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:10.840 services that work for them better. It's something that we 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:12.760 now do regularly in our work in the state of 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.320 New Jersey. So we really got to see about what 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.720 it meant to work differently and how important those different 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.440 working practices are to innovating and to improving how we 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.720 solve problems. So, Beth, I have to ask you, as 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.280 a member, me, as a citizen of the United States, 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.680 as someone who has lived in New Jersey her whole life, 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.440 I have seen a fair amount of dysfunction in government. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.520 Does government work right now? And if it doesn't in 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.480 your view, or are there ways that it could work 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.880 better in your view? Well, again, there are lots of things. 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.200 There are lots of success stories that I can tell you, um. 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:49.240 But at the same time, regardless of those stories, most 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.320 people today feel that government is a clumsy, bungling giant 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.560 that is not in a position to spend its money. Well, 0:02:56.600 --> 0:02:58.679 as we stand poised today to have one of the 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.800 largest federal budgets and World War One. Really, um, I 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.000 think all of us are very concerned about how government 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.960 spends our money. And you know that's reflected in the 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.120 poll numbers. Which over not just since COVID but over 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.520 a generation, have seen declining rates of trust and government. 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.680 So as many things as are going right, and we're 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.000 all looking around us as New York and New Jersey 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:24.360 are reopening obviously, and we're all happy, maybe not to 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:26.320 be out in the heat today, but happy to be 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.520 able to leave our houses at least um uh and 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.040 go to a restaurant and whatnot. We see the benefits 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.119 again of when things work, but we know that they 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.680 could work better than they're doing today, and especially we 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.400 know that we need to take advantage of the tools 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:47.200 we have available today, big data, new technology, UM, human 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.800 centered design again, innovations in ways of working that we 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.040 need to adapt and adopt in order to do a 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.680 better job at solving problems. Well does the pandemic and 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:57.920 everything that kind of how it played out, And obviously 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.920 this was in many ways of black swan event, but 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.720 nonetheless the inequities that were they bear once again there 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.920 weren't new problems. Is that an indication that government hasn't 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:10.520 been working as well as it could, that we still 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.280 have such incredible gaps in our society. We've got about 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.240 forty seconds and then we'll come back and talk some more. 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.880 Absolutely so, I think COVID brought a lot of this 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.280 into release. But the acute challenges we saw during COVID, 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:27.160 whether it was the public health crisis, exploding unemployment, rampant 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:32.720 racial inequity, just amplify the long term and chronic inequalities 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.240 we've been seeing, whether it's climate change or whether it's 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:39.039 economic inequality. We have tremendous challenges ahead of us that 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.280 we need to do better at fixing. So as well 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:43.720 as we might have done things up until now, and 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:46.679 that's a debatable point, we really need to do better 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.520 if we're going to respond to the tremendous crisis that 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.360 we're facing. All Right, best to time for a second. 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:52.600 We're gonna do a little bit of news, then we'll 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:55.159 come back. We are talking with Beth Simo Novak, chief 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:58.000 Innovation Officer for the State of New Jersey, former Deputy 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.360 Chief Technology Officer. She did that in the Obama administration 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.160 and her new book that's out, Solving Public Problems, A 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.520 Practical Guide to fix our Government and change our world. 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:08.880 She lays it out, but she also gives advice on 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.080 how to make those changes and help our world. I 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:13.680 want to get back to our guests. We're talking with 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.360 Beth Simon Noveki. She is the first Chief Innovation Officer 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.800 UH in New Jersey. She was the US Deputy Chief 0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.720 Technology Officer for Open Government. That was during the Obama administration. 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.960 Her new book, Solving Public Problems, A Practical Guide to 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.799 Fix our Government and change our World. There's a lot here, Beth, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.440 and I do wonder you know, one chapter. I just 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.320 love the headline of it. The government that governs least 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.720 governs best. Is that an argument for smaller government or 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.880 just more effective government, or government with real leadership or 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.479 a little bit about your your your onto exactly what 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.640 I'm getting at. We've had a generation long debate about 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.320 bigger versus smaller government. I think that's really a red herring. 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.080 It distracts us from the idea that we need to 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.120 have better governments, and frankly, not just government, it's business. 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:04.960 It's activists and students and every one of us as 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.560 well as our government that needs to really develop the 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.000 skills I would argue for being more effective at solving 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.680 public problems. So a lot of us these days really 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.160 want to, you know, man the barricades. There's a lot 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.080 of demand for social change. But I think the ability 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.360 to go from demanding change to really making it happen, 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:26.360 to cross that chasm from idea to implementation is something 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.600 that I think a lot of us find very difficult 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.359 wherever it is that we work, whether it's in the 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.440 private or the public sector. Well, when you look at 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.359 something like climate change. We we talked earlier um with 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:38.640 Sura Manker. She's created this company called grow Intelligence, and 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:41.480 she was a former commodities trader. She's a Bloomberg New 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:45.599 Economy catalyst and she basically is gathering tons of global 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:50.719 data using aime machine learning to tackle things like food 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:56.080 security issues and climate change. And our customers are food suppliers, 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.240 food producers, governments, the financial world. You know, these are 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:00.960 some really big problem is that if we don't tackle, 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:03.359 we're all going to be not in a good way. 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:06.680 So I do wonder about in particular, I guess what 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.640 I wanted to ask you was the use of data, 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:13.440 smart data to get us to a better place. Absolutely. 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:16.160 I think you know, every day we were glued to 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:19.240 the television screen or the radio to hear you know, 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.400 the governors or the mayors of our communities show the 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.840 graphs with race of COVID and how transmission was progressing. 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.160 If we didn't know about the value of data before, 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.080 we definitely I think all understood it doing during COVID. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:34.520 But if you look around and look at the fact 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.640 that the top twenty five schools of public administration do 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.400 not require the teaching of data science. If you look 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:43.560 at the fact that in government, we have the majority 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.120 of our government, only five percent of people are under 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.080 the age of thirty in our civilian government. So if 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:53.040 age is any proxy for mastery of new technologies, digital skills, 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.840 big data, um, you know, we really are I think 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.440 lacking in the way that we're training and teach people 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:03.240 to use these new tools that are available to us. 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.400 You know, our training law and government dates to ninety 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:11.560 eight are training framework. Uh there's yeah, there's a need 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.360 for a refresh and really looking at what are the 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.000 skills that we're teaching people inside government. Um, but it's 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.559 not limited to government. Look in universities, we're teaching people 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:24.280 to become the next Mark Zuckerberg. We're teaching everybody to 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.240 become entrepreneurs and to start a business, which is wonderful, 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:31.160 but we also need to equip people with the skills 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.720 who want to do things like tackle climate change, or 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:38.040 tackle racial inequities, or tackle some of these big societal problems, 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.880 and all the more so really in business. So you know, 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.680 today I think CEOs really know uh and the Aidelman 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:47.960 Trust Barometer shows it. You know, people want CEOs to 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.400 speak out on societal issues, they want CEOs to be 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.760 accountable to the public. The new movement around stakeholder capitalism 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.920 really is a movement towards companies playing a more socially 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:03.160 responsible role right and employees frankly or demanding it. You know, 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.200 millennials who are the people going into the jobs of 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:11.760 both today and tomorrow. Of millennials are considering a company's 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.960 social and environmental commitments when they're deciding where they're going 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.160 to go to work. So I think there's a real 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.560 need for people also in the private sector to upscale 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:25.240 themselves to be able to tackle society societal problems because 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:29.720 it's everybody's responsibility, not just people inside government. It's funny 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.880 we just had Richard Edelman on because we often talked 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:34.840 about the trust Barometer and your spot on what's also 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.640 interesting and having recently talked to a bunch of CEOs 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:42.000 that are in the food space, leading companies. They are 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:46.239 definitely watching climate change because it's impacting them and their businesses. 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.560 Is it ultimately you know, I have worked in a 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:55.199 capitalistic society. I cover the capitalism that goes on globally. 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.600 Is it money that ultimately brings about the change? Because 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.319 I feel like we've been talking about climate change for 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.360 a long time, We've been talking about diversity for a 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:06.480 long time, but finally it feels like the needle is changing, 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:11.520 partly because it's having a financial impact on companies, on cities, 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:16.000 on states, on governments and countries. Absolutely. Well, look, we 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.040 can always use more money put towards social good. But 0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:22.520 right now we're seeing you know, the largest federal budgets 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.679 in a very very long time. We're seeing companies also 0:10:25.800 --> 0:10:28.319 wanting Especially during COVID, we saw a lot of corporate 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:32.800 social philanthropy, social responsibility, people spending money on trying to 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.760 do well by doing good. I think it's really a 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.400 question though, of skills and of know how and the 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:42.319 ability to understand how to leverage the tools at our disposal, 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.400 and that includes both digital tools and data, but also 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:49.400 includes institutions and how we can leverage institutions and their 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.840 power and their convening power to really implement change. You know, 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.160 when we talk about innovation, a lot of the focus 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:57.520 is on the spark of the good idea. So you 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.760 talk about the social entrepreneur who has this cool new 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:04.000 app for this cool new thing, um, But the real 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.920 question is driving through implementation. How do we make change 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:10.080 happen in practice? How do we go again from the 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.480 good idea to implementing that good idea. How do we 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:17.280 take these amazing new technologies around machine learning and AI 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.800 and translate them into social good impractice for real people. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:23.760 That's a skill set, and it's a learnable skill set. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.319 Is the argument that I make. I love what you're saying. 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.280 I feel like I've been having this conversation a lot lately, 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.600 especially in the last year, but also for a little 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.199 bit longer, Like these are all great ideas, they make sense. 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.840 Someone a loyal listener and watch her on our YouTube 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.600 channel tweeting at me and saying, better government begins with 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.480 better people running for public office country before party. Isn't 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:47.600 that part of the problem? And just got about forty 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.679 seconds left here, Well we're going to solve it all 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:54.360 in seconds. But you know what, I'm saying, in terms 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.000 of politics, EEP getting in the way of kind of 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:01.120 some really smart and needed and necessary, very longer term planning. 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:03.160 Just quickly, let me just say I'm so glad we're 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:06.240 having this conversation because so much focus is obviously on 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.319 what happens on election day, and not enough is what 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.240 happened on what happens to day after election day? What 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.120 are the skills we're developing with the capacity that we're building. 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:18.200 Are we up skilling ourselves to be able to tackle 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.600 the challenges that we're facing today. So it really is 0:12:21.640 --> 0:12:24.960 about first and foremast focusing on the problems that we're 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.360 solving and not on the politics around those problem. Well, 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.040 I hope you will come back. Beth Simone Novak, chief 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:34.079 Innovation Officer for New Jersey. Her book is Solving Public Problems, 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.640 A Practical Guide to Fix our Government and change our world. Bet, 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:37.480 thank you so much.