1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,559 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 2: A shock discovery missing baby Maya just eight months old. 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: Her remains found wrapped in plastic? How did that happen? 4 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 2: And also why did months go by without her being 5 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: reported missing? A? Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, Thank 6 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 2: you for being with us. 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 3: Kentucky State Police are desperately seeking information on eight month 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 3: old Maya Rudd of Reynold Station. A concerned family member 9 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 3: reports last seeing Maya in late April. Troopers performing a 10 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,279 Speaker 3: welfare check are unable to locate the infant and are 11 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 3: now turning to the public for help. Maya Rudd has 12 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 3: brown hair and green eyes. Anyone with information is asked 13 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 3: to call State Police at two seven zero two nine 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 3: eight three two three five. 15 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: Light brown hair and green eyes. What could Maya have become? 16 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: What would she be? 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: What she grew up? 18 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:24,199 Speaker 2: This beautiful, tiny infant baby that could be so much 19 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: is now just a statistic. Now all I've got is 20 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 2: her description, brown hair, green eyes, just a few months old. 21 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: And let me tell you something, There's gonna be hell 22 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: to pay again. I Nancy Grace and this is Crime Stories. 23 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 2: How does a baby go. 24 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: So long without being reported missing? 25 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: Reminds me of another baby that goes missing and is 26 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 2: not reported gone. 27 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: Does the name Kelly Anthony. 28 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: Ring a bell? If not, maybe the name top mom 29 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: Casey Anthony will listen, Oh my daughter finally, A babysom say, 30 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 2: I need to find her. 31 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: Your daughter admitted that the baby is where. 32 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 4: You took her months ago, that my daughter's been looking for. 33 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: I told you my daughter was missing four months. 34 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 5: I just found her. 35 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 3: Convey that I can't find my granddaughter. 36 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 5: She just admitted to me she's been trying to find herself. 37 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 4: There's something wrong. 38 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: I found my daughter's carts. 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 6: To day and it's not. 40 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: Okay. What is the three year old's name? 41 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 7: Kaylee? 42 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 8: C A y l e E. 43 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: Anthony joining me in All Star panel? It makes sense 44 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: of what we know right now. 45 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 2: Very often, out to Mitch Carter, or investigated reporter of 46 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 2: w f i E fourteen News Indiana, Mitch, people have 47 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 2: always often asked me, why did you focus on missing 48 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 2: Kelly out of all the stories. 49 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: And I can tell you how it happened. 50 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: Somebody said, well, there's a missing little girl two or 51 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: three years old out of Florida. I'm like, okay, how 52 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: long has she been missing? And they said thirty days. 53 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 2: I'm like, well, why am I just hearing about it 54 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: right now? And some body on the phone said, well, 55 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 2: she's just been reported missing. Am I stop? We're doing 56 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: that right there? Why was she not reported missing? And 57 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 2: that's what I want to hear. I want to hear 58 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: everything about this little baby just eight months. So let's 59 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: just take it from the top, Miss Carter joining me, 60 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: investigative reporter WFIE fourteen News. Mitch, start at the beginning, 61 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 2: when a welfare check was done by l E Law enforcement. 62 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 6: Go well, yeah, Nancy, you know, to understand this case overall, 63 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 6: you've got to go back here. You know, we know 64 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 6: KSP tells us that, you know, back in April is 65 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 6: the last time the family members tell them they actually 66 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 6: caught sight of baby Maya, prompting them to a welfare 67 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 6: check in June. Here now on June fifth, authority se. 68 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 2: Okay, hold on, hold on, you're telling me something I 69 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: don't know. Mitch, hold on to some moment, so family members, 70 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: somebody calls for a security check on Maya. 71 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: Where's Maya? Thank Heaven, or we would not have found Maya. 72 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: Somebody gets suspicious and when LA law enforcement go to 73 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 2: the family they say they haven't seen her since April. 74 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: Did I get that right? 75 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 6: So, like I was talking about there, you know, family 76 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 6: reaches out to law enforcement and says they haven't seen 77 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 6: baby Maya since April, prompting this welfare check. 78 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, the child, the baby, an infant just 79 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: eight months old, had not been seen since April. I 80 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 2: mean to Robin Drink joining me in addition to Mitch 81 00:04:54,240 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 2: Carter WFIE fourteen, Robin behavioral expert for FBI Special agent. 82 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 2: Now listen to this part chief of the FBI Counterintelligence 83 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 2: Behavioral Analysis Program and author of Sizing People Up, a 84 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: veteran FBI agent's manual for behavior prediction, Robin Drake. That's 85 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: pretty impressive. But enough about you and onto my Robin. 86 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 2: Can I tell you I know the precise moment when 87 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: my twins left this morning to go to their job. 88 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: They have a job this summer. I know the moment 89 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 2: because I hadn't have my phone in my hand, and 90 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: I glanced down to see if they were going to 91 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 2: be late. They were not, of course, but I glanced 92 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 2: because I'd been hurrying them all morning. I remember that, 93 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 2: and I can look and see when I got texts 94 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 2: from them during the day. So how does somebody not 95 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: notice their child has been me sing for eight months? 96 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 4: Well, you described what we all do in our lives, 97 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 4: and that is we establish a great baseline of what 98 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 4: normal is in each of our lives. I'm the same 99 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 4: way with my kids. I can tell you know, I 100 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 4: have two adult kids. I can tell immediately if something's 101 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 4: going awry by a change in communication. And that's what 102 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 4: happened here. There was a change in communication and change 103 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: in contact with the child, and yet no one was 104 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 4: noticed in this baseline. And that's what we really need 105 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,239 Speaker 4: to do. We need as family and friends to notice 106 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 4: these subtle changes and sometimes drastic changes and actually do 107 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 4: something about it faster so we can prevent things like this. 108 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: Well, I can't help but just wonder to doctor Jeff Kalshewsky, 109 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: renowned forensics psychologist, author of Darksides at Darksides dot Podia 110 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: dot com. Doctor Jeff, I can't help but project a 111 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: nefarious nature to this. Or is it true that some 112 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: parents it's you know, they hand the baby off to 113 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 2: an aunt or a cousin and. 114 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: Kind of just leave it there. 115 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: And so I naturally attach something to farious to not 116 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: mentioning your child hasn't been seen. But I guess there 117 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 2: could be an innocent explanation. Not in my world, but 118 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 2: maybe in their world. I mean, the baby is a 119 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: tiny little baby, and I don't understand how you can 120 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 2: just hand it off to someone and. 121 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: Not check on it. 122 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 4: Right. 123 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 8: This really opens the door to a lot of questions. 124 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 8: You know, most reasonable people obviously know where their children are, 125 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 8: and if their children are missing, they try to find 126 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 8: out why they call law enforcement. I have had several 127 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 8: cases where, similar to this, it's not reported, And the 128 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 8: first thing you think about is, you know, is there 129 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 8: some mal intent in not reporting? Even if something bad 130 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 8: happened to the baby, people at least would take the 131 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 8: baby to the hospital well to find out what happened. 132 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 8: But this situation just really opens up the door to 133 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 8: a lot of other questions about what's really going on 134 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 8: in this home. 135 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 2: In fact, to Robin Drake joining US behavioral expert former 136 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: FBI special Agent, Robin, I have to accept and I 137 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: learned this when prosecuting. I mean, I grew up in 138 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 2: a very rural, almost idyllic childhood where we were very loved, 139 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: so other lifestyles were foreign to me. But when you're 140 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 2: investigating and prosecuting. You have to accept that other people 141 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: have different lifestyles and frankly, that's none of my business 142 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 2: and I don't care what anybody does unless there's crime 143 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 2: scene tape around it, then it becomes my business. So 144 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: we have to accept the While we may not pack 145 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 2: our children off to an infant at just eight months old, 146 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 2: pack the maybe off to go live with someone else 147 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: or stay somewhere else, other people do that and in 148 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,559 Speaker 2: their world they think it's okay. It's very hard for 149 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: me to relate to that. 150 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 4: Absolutely, and you described even you know what this little 151 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 4: child will have missed out on in a very idealic, beautiful, 152 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 4: healthy relationships with growing up. But like you said, everyone 153 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 4: has a different pattern of normal in their lives and 154 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 4: that's for every family to. 155 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: Decide what that is. 156 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 4: But it's still a pattern. And when we have a 157 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 4: deviation from that pattern, if we don't have the contacts 158 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 4: with whoever it is, whether it's the aunts and uncles 159 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 4: watching them or even just friends and family to watch them, 160 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 4: that will establish a pattern. I used to see my 161 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 4: grandmother every weekend growing up. That was different than other 162 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 4: families around me, But that was a pattern until it changes, 163 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 4: and so a change should prompt these questions from people 164 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 4: that are close enough to say, hey, what has changed, 165 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 4: what's going on? And most importantly, is it a healthy 166 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 4: change or is it a not healthy change? And what 167 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 4: are we going to do about it? Very important? What 168 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 4: question requires specific action? 169 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, in addition to Mitch Carter, 170 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 2: Robin Drike, and doctor Jeff Kalashewski now joining me, renowned prosecutor, 171 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:27,319 Speaker 2: former deputy state's attorney, former assistant states attorney specializing in 172 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: child abuse and homicide, Fran Longwill Fran. We're discussing, thank 173 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: you for joining us, friend, We're discussing how in my 174 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 2: world for me not to see my infant child for 175 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 2: even a day is unheard of. 176 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: That would not happen period. 177 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 2: But you have to accept as a prosecutor, as an 178 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 2: investigator that other people have different lifestyles and while that 179 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 2: may not be okay with us, for them, it may 180 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 2: be normal for the baby to be gone from the home. 181 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 7: That's true. I've had many cases where I was kind 182 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 7: of shocked at how the people handled their children, Like 183 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 7: what just one time I said something about the child? 184 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 7: How did the child get out of their crib to 185 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,200 Speaker 7: get in a case. And then I found out they 186 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 7: didn't sleep in a crib. They slept on the floor 187 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 7: on a mattress. And people just do live different ways. 188 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: So the baby slept on the floor. Okay, I would 189 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: find that odd too. And I remember a friend longwell, 190 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 2: I was investigating, and stop me if you've heard this 191 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 2: recount of a story. But I was prosecuting a triple 192 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 2: homicide and trying to find witnesses desperately and was knocking 193 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 2: on doors. 194 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: And I went into a woman's time. 195 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: She had to be about nineteen or twenty, and she 196 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 2: had anywhere from eleven to fifteen infant. 197 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: Babies lying on the floor, all swaddled tightly so. 198 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 2: They couldn't really move. There was like a soap opera 199 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: or something going on on a TV, and they were 200 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,679 Speaker 2: all incredibly quiet, which also struck me as odd. And 201 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 2: I when I got out of there, I felt like 202 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 2: I just broke out of hell. But that was the 203 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 2: way she lived, and the parents, I assume, knew that's 204 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 2: how the babies were being taken care of. And like 205 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: you said, I've seen families where children are not allowed 206 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: to have any sugar, no cookie, no candy, no muffing, nothing, 207 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 2: and they get in trouble if they have a Snickers 208 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: bar or cookies at somebody's house. 209 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: Then I've seen families. I just covered a case the. 210 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 2: Other day friend, where a little girl, just absolutely precious, 211 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: was fed nothing but baby bottles of mountain dew until 212 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: she developed diabetes and died. The mom stood by while 213 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 2: all of her teeth rotted out and the baby died. 214 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 2: The child died, I think she was four years old 215 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 2: at the time. Nothing but bottles of mountain dew. But 216 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 2: in this case fran longwell, not just an alternative lifestyle, 217 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 2: but the baby is missing and nobody reports it. 218 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: How can you not look at that in a nefarious light. 219 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 7: I think it's very strange. And when a child is 220 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 7: the grandparents or someone should have known that child is missing. 221 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 7: Just like you said in the other case with the 222 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 7: little girl that was dead, it's impossible to think that 223 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 7: no one paid any attention to this poor little baby, 224 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 7: a brand new baby, and didn't report her missing. And 225 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 7: maybe the parents said she was around her she was 226 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,520 Speaker 7: with a babysitter who knows. 227 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 4: You know. 228 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 2: The search for infant Maaya ends with her body being 229 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 2: discovered in a Kentucky home, wrapped in plastic. Before we 230 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 2: revisit the fact that she went for weeks without being 231 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 2: reported missing. Back to Mitch Carter, investigative reporter WFIE fourteen, 232 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 2: Mitch described to me the condition in which she was found. 233 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, well, talking with Kentucky State Police. She was found 234 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 6: on Friday at one fifteen pm. They found her inside 235 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 6: wrapped in plastic, in a blanket underneath some debris. 236 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 2: Inside of that help hold on in just a moment. Inside, okay, 237 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: inside a home wrapped in plastic and then wrapped in 238 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: a blanket under debris inside a family home. Was she 239 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: wrapped in plasket plastic then a blanket or a blanket 240 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: and then plastic? 241 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 6: I think it's I think she's in a blankets, like 242 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 6: inside the plastic with her, if that makes sense. 243 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 9: We were told wrapped in and all that. 244 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: Okay, would you say that one more time because I 245 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 2: still don't understand. 246 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 4: Was she in so she's like in a blanket then 247 00:14:58,840 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 4: wrapped in plastic? 248 00:14:59,680 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: Got it? 249 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 4: You know? 250 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: Again? 251 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: That's reminding me so much of the way that Kelly 252 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: Anthony's body was found. She was in a black plastic 253 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 2: trash bag and her favorite blanket was in there with her, 254 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: which tells me a lot about who killed her, someone 255 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: that would pick out her blanket and bury it with her. 256 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: Mitch, thank you for that straight out. 257 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 2: Now to doctor Michelle Dupree, joining US recognized forensic pathologist 258 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 2: who shot to fame during the Alexan Murdog double murder trial, 259 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 2: medical examiner, former detective, author of Money, Mischief and Murder 260 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 2: the Murdog Saga the rest of the story, but for 261 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: my purposes. She is also the author of Homicide Investigation 262 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: Field Guide and Investigating Child Abuse Field Guide. 263 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: She literally wrote the book. 264 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: Doctor Dupree, You and I have investigated and covered a 265 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,479 Speaker 2: lot of homicide cases, and to me, it's very significant 266 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: that the scene was staged. 267 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: It may Bee Maya's death. 268 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 2: What do I mean by that? Anytime you move a body, 269 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: touch a body, change a scene in any way, you 270 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 2: have staged a scene. You may make the murder or 271 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 2: the homicide look like a suicide. You may place a 272 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: gun in the victim's hand. You may cover up the 273 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 2: victim with a blanket. I've seen a case where a 274 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 2: mother was shot dead and the killer put a wicker 275 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 2: trash can over her head. 276 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: I've seen bodies covered in leaves. 277 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 2: I've seen faces covered just all sorts of staging, and 278 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: this is staged. The baby is wrapped, as you heard 279 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: Mitch Carter state, in a baby blanket and then in 280 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 2: plastic and then hidden under debris. That tells me the 281 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 2: killer knows the baby. Intimately, I want to hear what 282 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: you have to say. 283 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 9: Absolutely, Nancy, this is what we often call forensic countermeasures, 284 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 9: meaning that it is an attempt to cover up basically 285 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 9: the crime. 286 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 2: So they knew that this had happened, they knew that it. 287 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 9: Was wrong, and they're trying to cover it up by 288 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 9: wrapping the baby, probably in a favorite blanket, and then 289 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 9: putting it in a plastic bag. 290 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 2: This is unfathomable. 291 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 9: And to believe that someone did not recognize that this baby, 292 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 9: this infant who cannot walk cooktok, had not been seen 293 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 9: for so many days and did not report it sooner, 294 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 9: I can't imagine that. 295 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 2: It's unfathomable, Doctor Dupree, I don't know how you would 296 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 2: since the baby wasn't reported missing for so long, This 297 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 2: beautiful baby Maya. 298 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: With her light brown hair and her green eyes and her. 299 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 2: World before her, because she wasn't reported missing for so long, 300 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: how can we tell when she was killed? 301 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, we're going to look at several things. We're 302 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 9: going to look at any of the scene markers. That 303 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 9: means things that are around the scene where she's found, 304 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 9: see if there's anything that will give us a clue 305 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 9: to that time frame. We're also, of course going to 306 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 9: take a good look at the body itself. The body 307 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 9: can tell us so much about what happened and when 308 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 9: it happened, and of course the rate of the decomposition 309 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 9: of that body. 310 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 2: I'm curious, could you explain to everyone in your mind, 311 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 2: doctor Michelle Dupree, what is a quote scene marker? I mean, 312 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 2: for me, it would be if somebody was found and 313 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 2: inside the trash bag, something indicative or probative of the day, 314 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 2: like I don't know, a newspaper, a magazine, a doctor's appointment, schedule, 315 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 2: a prescription to something that would give me a date. 316 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 2: But there's so many varied scene markers. What do you mean, 317 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 2: give me an example of a scene marker. 318 00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 9: Well, Nancy, everything that you said would be a scene marker. 319 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 9: It is something that is going to give us a 320 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 9: time of death or an approximate time of death. Mayo 321 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 9: that hasn't been opened this postmark the newspaper, as you mentioned, 322 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 9: anything like that that can possibly set the time that 323 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 9: is with the body where it is found either beside it, 324 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 9: in the bag or underneath it. Something that is going 325 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 9: to help us not down that time frame. 326 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 2: So, doctor Michelle duprey, other than extrinsic evidence to give 327 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 2: me a time of death or a date of death. 328 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 2: Other than extrinsic evidence, such as, as you were saying, 329 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: a scene marker, how can you the medical examiner look 330 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 2: at this baby girl, infant girl's body and determine how 331 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 2: long she's been dead, especially since she is seemingly hermatically 332 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 2: sealed in a blanket and plastic. I don't know if 333 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 2: it's just a plastic bag or she's wrapped in plastic tate. 334 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: Remember JJ and Tylely called Mom Laurie Valo's children. Remember 335 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: that Tilely was basically dirt down. Her body was rendered 336 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 2: down like an animal at a slaughter house. There's nothing 337 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 2: but a bucket of flesh left of Tiley, sweet gorgeous 338 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 2: young girl. JJ, however, was more along the lines of 339 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 2: being hermetically sealed, wrapped like a mummy in tape and 340 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: carefully hidden away the treatment of the two children vastly different. 341 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 2: So again, how do you look at anybody and I 342 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 2: don't know how she was sealed in the plastic and 343 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 2: determined date of death. 344 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: Well, that's exactly what we do, Nancy, is we look 345 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: at the environment. 346 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 2: How warm was it, you. 347 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 9: Know, what is the moisture content, how was the baby wrap? 348 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 9: Was it hermetically sealed or was it just simply put 349 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,119 Speaker 9: into a plastic bag. We look at that decomposition. We 350 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 9: look at how that body decomposed, whether it is becoming 351 00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 9: mummified or that means leathery, or is it doing something 352 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 9: else and decomposing in a different way. We also look 353 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 9: at the internal aspect of the body when we do 354 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 9: the autopsy and we look at the organs, we look 355 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 9: to see how they are decomposing or not and the 356 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 9: speed of that. And there have been many studies done, 357 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 9: especially you've probably heard of the body farm, and that's 358 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 9: where we get a lot of our data from. So 359 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 9: we're able to basically give good estimates. As you know, 360 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,920 Speaker 9: time of death is only an estimate, and so that 361 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 9: way we can narrow it down at least to a 362 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 9: certain timeframe. 363 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 2: Joining us now on location is truper Corey King of 364 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 2: the Kentucky State Police Special guests joining us. Truper Corey King, 365 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. I sometimes wonder how 366 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 2: you keep going when you see cases like this. When 367 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 2: I would prosecute and investigate child murders, some babies as 368 00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: young as baby Maya, I couldn't sleep for early weeks 369 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: after prosecuting a case like that. Tell me about your 370 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 2: involvement in the search for Baby Maya. 371 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 5: And this is a case that we haven't seen in 372 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 5: quite some time, and frankly, I'm not so sure I 373 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 5: have seen a case like this involving this young of 374 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 5: a child. She's a baby, And I think, really this 375 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 5: case is surrounds and highlights what drugs can do to 376 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 5: our families. And we have said it a thousand times 377 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 5: over that that heroin kills the user, methamfetamine kills everyone else, 378 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 5: and it bears repetition. That's the case with this particular 379 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 5: family was the drug trade that came first, the addiction, 380 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 5: and then unfortunately everything else was last. And what shocked 381 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 5: us more than anything probably at the very beginning. You see, 382 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 5: this started out as a drug invested investigation. We didn't 383 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 5: know there was a baby involved, And it wasn't until 384 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 5: this investigation started to get closer and closer to the 385 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 5: family did we realize that someone said, Hey, you do 386 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 5: know there's a six month old in this house, and 387 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 5: we were unaware of that, at least us in the 388 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 5: state Police. So then we had the questions, where's baby Maya? 389 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 5: And we could locate her. So when we closed in 390 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 5: on the family and arrested them, located them with a 391 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 5: plethora amount of drugs that's fentanyls, that's methamphetamine. There was 392 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 5: no baby. So when we went to go press them 393 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 5: on where is baby Maya, they immediately wanted to seek counsel, 394 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 5: which stopped all questioning and would not work with us 395 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 5: at all on her whereabouts. 396 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: Trooper Corey King, Yes, I know that any target, any suspect, 397 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 2: has the right to have counsel with them. They have 398 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 2: the complete right to the Fifth Amendment right to remain 399 00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:02,479 Speaker 2: silent as it should be under our constitution. Are big big, However, 400 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 2: when you are looking for a missing baby just a 401 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 2: few months, so you'd. 402 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: Think that somewhere in that addled brain of theirs. 403 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 2: They would say, Okay, I may have drugs in my home, 404 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 2: but where's my baby? 405 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: That's more important that never dawns on them, does it. No, 406 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: it doesn't. 407 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 5: And that was the biggest shocker to us was that 408 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 5: the entire family, it wasn't just mother and father, even 409 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 5: the grandparents, was not actively or overly cooperative with us, 410 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 5: and they certainly wasn't involved in the search for the 411 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 5: baby either. So all of this was very suspect in general. 412 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 5: We certainly agree that yes, based on the constitutions, certainly 413 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 5: everyone has the right to seek counsel and stop questioning 414 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 5: at any time. But we're talking about a baby in 415 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 5: which we had several working theories our mind. One we thought, okay, 416 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 5: someone's holding this child for the family because they knew 417 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 5: social services were coming to get this child. Secondly, they 418 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 5: sold the child, whether it be through human trafficking or 419 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 5: maybe for profit for drugs. And the third the most 420 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 5: grim was this baby was dead and we would never 421 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 5: find her. And that's where it was looking. The longer 422 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 5: this investigation we went, the more grim it looked, and 423 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 5: we actually thought we would never find this child. We 424 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 5: were very optimistic, but I think we were searching several 425 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 5: areas with cadaver dogs, thinking they disposed of this body 426 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 5: because he the father, was seen disposing of items in 427 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 5: nearby creeks and that's where we thought she was. So 428 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 5: we had active scenes with cadaver dogs, but it wasn't 429 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 5: until the second search of the property did we locate 430 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 5: this baby buried underneath mounds of debris and trash and filth, 431 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 5: and sadly, that was that baby's reality for six months. 432 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: Joining me is Trooper Corey King, Kentucky State Police, who 433 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 2: was actively involved in the search for baby Maya. I've 434 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 2: got so many questions and the rest of the panel. 435 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 2: Remember we are not having high tea at Windsor Castle. 436 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: Jump in. 437 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 2: Here's the source between Trooper King and Minch Carter. We're 438 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 2: going to get our questions answered. Did you say I 439 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 2: knew she was buried under debris inside of a home? 440 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: Could you describe that from me? 441 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 5: So those folks that have seen the scene, and many 442 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 5: of our local partners, media partners are out there filming. 443 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 5: There's a lot of debris on the outside, a lot 444 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 5: of clutter, trashy, not too uncommon to see those who are. 445 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: Addicted to drugs. 446 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 5: That comes that is priority. But the inside was equally 447 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 5: as cluttered, and it was the front room in which 448 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 5: we had been there one time before with a search, 449 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 5: and there was so much drug residue, animal feces, so 450 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 5: it really shocked all of us. And in fact, once 451 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,879 Speaker 5: we did find her in a bunch of underneath a 452 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 5: bunch of rubble, we all had to go outside the 453 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 5: house and collect ourselves. We were hopeful, we really were. 454 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,719 Speaker 5: We're hopeful someone's holding this baby, but unfortunately the reality 455 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 5: was we found her dead. And although we haven't made 456 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 5: a one hundred percent positive identification that comes through DNA, 457 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 5: which we did get, we all know this is baby Maya. 458 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 2: The trooper Corey King joining us Kentucky State Police. I 459 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 2: need people to understand because the first time I heard this, 460 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 2: I didn't understand it. 461 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: When you say you had to stop the search. 462 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 2: We just investigated the case of a baby boy, an 463 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 2: infant who died in daycare. Why did he die because 464 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 2: he breathed in fentonyl particles of fentanyl that were in 465 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 2: the air, because the fentanyl itself was moved in his. 466 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: And I think put under a rug and the baby 467 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: breathed in some particles and die. 468 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 2: So if you had you go in you see drug 469 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 2: residue joke pieripheralia everywhere. If you had taken those dogs 470 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 2: in and they had gotten one whiff of let's just 471 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 2: say fentanyl, then die. So you have to back out. 472 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 2: You can't go in, the canines can't go in. Everything 473 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 2: is off. And that's a heck of a predicament. You're 474 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: looking for a potentially dead infant baby girl and you 475 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: can't search because the house is so inundated with drug 476 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 2: residue that you have to pull the dogs out. 477 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: What can you tell me about that? 478 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 5: Clearly, findels are very transdermal and depending on the type 479 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 5: of fentnyls, which we weren't sure of. In fact, it's 480 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 5: become so dangerous for us we no longer test on site. 481 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 5: We collect and then send off for the lab to 482 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 5: do the work for But you're right, breathing in is 483 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 5: ait airborne transdermally, it can absorb and we can overdose 484 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 5: and die ourselves. Not to mention, we have assistance through 485 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 5: the canines which are very sensitive through the pause of 486 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 5: the animal as well as or snout, So it can 487 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 5: be very dangerous in that regard, But we weren't as 488 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 5: ensure we knew pounds of methamphetamine and fentanyls were coming 489 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 5: to this location and that's what started the investigation off. 490 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 5: But once we realized that baby was involved, it changed 491 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 5: the whole dynamic and the direction of this investigation. All 492 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 5: our hearts was looking It's all we wanted, but unfortunately, 493 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 5: everybody we went to that is involved in this family 494 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 5: ended up getting arrested, either for drugs or warrants. And 495 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 5: one of our detectives said it best is I've never 496 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 5: seen I never had an investigation like this to where 497 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 5: we literally have taken down almost an entire family tree 498 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 5: in a week and a half. And that's not what 499 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 5: we're wanting to do. We were simply wanting this baby. 500 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 5: I really think that a picture's worth a thousand words. 501 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 5: If I could tell you, I'll describe this to you. 502 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 5: In one of the child's room, I can only assume 503 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 5: the baby's room there was there was a baby bottle, 504 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 5: a pacifier, and narcan sitting next to each other. That 505 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 5: really said it. 506 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 7: All to me. 507 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 508 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 3: Kentucky State Police head to parents, Tesla Tucker and Cage 509 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 3: Rudd's last known address in nearby Rentalds Station, hopeful they 510 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 3: will locate Maya Rudd. Their conditions inside the home are deplorable. 511 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 3: The home is filthy, and troopers uncover more meth and 512 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 3: fentanil cage. Rudd's father, Ricky Smith, is believed to be 513 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 3: operating a drug trafficking scheme out of the home and 514 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 3: is arrested on several drugs and weapons charges. There is 515 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 3: zero indication that Maya Rudd is living in the Deanfield 516 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 3: Church Road home. 517 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: So if she's not there, where is she. 518 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 2: The bio dad, the bio mom, extended families, and others, 519 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 2: including the grandparents, their drugs are more important to them 520 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 2: than baby Maya. Mitch Carter joining me WFE fourteen News Indiana. Mitch, 521 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: where was defects in this scenario? Because it's my understanding 522 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 2: mentioned tell me if I'm wrong. Other siblings have been 523 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,960 Speaker 2: taken removed from the home, But they leave the most 524 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 2: defenseless child there, just a few months old. They leave 525 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 2: her with the parents, and the baby is born with 526 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 2: meth in its system, but they go, oh, yeah, here, 527 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: take her home. 528 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll be great parents. 529 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 6: What the hey, Mitch, Yeah, I mean that's kind of 530 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 6: been the big talking point throughout this entire case, you know, 531 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 6: for us, and for those following along with the media 532 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 6: and along with along with KSP, with Drooper King, you know, 533 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 6: is wondering how did this happen? Because you know, any 534 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 6: any sane person you and I talking right now doesn't 535 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 6: make any sense to us, you know. And with that, 536 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 6: I spoke with Kory King about that specifically several times here, 537 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 6: and he told me that Friday before they found him remains, 538 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 6: we talked, We had an interview before, We had a 539 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 6: couple hours before, and he told me that as far 540 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 6: as he knows, they test that a buildical coort and 541 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 6: tested positive for meth. However, it takes a couple of 542 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 6: weeks for those results to get back. 543 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 4: In that time, they lose track, you know. 544 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 6: Social Services does of Tesla Tucker and Cage Rudd and 545 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 6: this baby and henceforth. You know, months go by and 546 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 6: here we find ourselves. 547 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 2: Now, Okay, Mitch Carter, you are a very well known 548 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 2: in that area, investigating reporter with w FIA. I'm amazed 549 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 2: that you kept a straight face just then when you 550 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 2: said defacts lost them and that quote. Months went by. 551 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 2: Really they couldn't find the baby. They weren't making a 552 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 2: secret about where they were living. I know that's the 553 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: information they told you. That's total bs. They've got a 554 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: baby born with meth in its system. The parents are druggies, 555 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 2: and they give the baby over look. They need to 556 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 2: take the other two children away, but they leave the baby. 557 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 1: Mitch, really you believe that that they couldn't find the parents. 558 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 6: I mean, at this point, you know, we've reached out 559 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 6: to social services to ask them kind of a slew 560 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 6: of questions. They're mainly talking about the you know, sort 561 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 6: of protocol they follow, if that makes sense to take 562 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 6: a family to take a child. 563 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: Sorry, I just choked, Yeah, I choked when you said 564 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 2: you're discussing following their protocol. 565 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: Mitch Minch Carter. They're lying. They're lying, and they're covering 566 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: their rear ends because. 567 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 2: They let the baby stay in the home and now 568 00:33:58,280 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 2: the baby's dead. 569 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,760 Speaker 1: A wonderful exposa for you to work on. 570 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,200 Speaker 2: Back to Trooper Corey King and Mitch please jump in, 571 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 2: okay with any information or questions for the trooper. Trooper 572 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 2: Corey King with us Kentucky State Police. Did you hear 573 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: what they told Mitch. He's just reporting what he's been told. 574 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,760 Speaker 2: That is total BS. Of course, I'm not saying Defects 575 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 2: kill the baby. I'm saying the family kill the baby 576 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 2: and then hid the baby and plastic. But that said, 577 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 2: Defects knew this was a hell and they let the 578 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 2: baby stay there. 579 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 580 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 5: I think it's something that the state as a whole 581 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 5: will be looking into. They have made some legislative changes 582 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:50,840 Speaker 5: within our state on accountability and who monitors what, particularly 583 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 5: in this case, what the social services can do and 584 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 5: not do. And I know they have a tough job, 585 00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 5: but I can just tell you that this will be 586 00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 5: looked into because, just like Mitch had mentioned, there was 587 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 5: three other children removed, she was born, odds are that 588 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 5: this child was gonna test positive for myth and lo 589 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 5: and behold she did. And that's the question is what 590 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 5: happened from October to where we locate the child? 591 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 1: Mits Carter WFIE fourteen. 592 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 2: Isn't it true the family actually told police Defects had 593 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 2: the baby. 594 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: Yes, actually that's true. 595 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 4: You know, Corey King and I spoke and he, like 596 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 4: you mentioned, they're already to you, Nancy. 597 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 6: Was that the folks who should know the most were 598 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,080 Speaker 6: saying the least that are being extremely hard to work with, 599 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,280 Speaker 6: which is their right to deplete the fifth and not speak. 600 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 6: But with that, all he was told right away, and 601 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 6: all KSP was told was the family told them that 602 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 6: social services had already taken the baby, and looking at 603 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 6: their records, that was plainly just untrue. 604 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 2: Okay, guys, I want to go to Robin Driek joining me, 605 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 2: former chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program and author. 606 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 1: Robin, this is the baby's family. 607 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 2: They're lying there, are refusing to speak to police to 608 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 2: protect their own drug paraphernalia and drug possession in the 609 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 2: home right there. That's just scream to you regarding red 610 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 2: flags and their behavior. 611 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. 612 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 2: Nancy. 613 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 4: The thing that keeps screaming at me in this is 614 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 4: we talk about it, and I keep talking about these 615 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 4: behavior arcs. They had three clues from social services that 616 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 4: they shouldn't have this baby in this house, whether with 617 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,399 Speaker 4: testing for meth or not. If you have three other 618 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,400 Speaker 4: siblings that are in protective custody of services, why not 619 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 4: automatically put this baby in that? I mean, it's really 620 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 4: just profound. And also I'm really curious about what other 621 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 4: criminal activities they're going to be uncovering, and maybe more 622 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 4: tragedy because drug addicts do horrendous things to service their 623 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,400 Speaker 4: own needs. But I'm really curious about how come you 624 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 4: have three children already in services and the one wasn't 625 00:36:58,600 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 4: joining me. 626 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 2: In addition to an All Star panel is Trooper Corey King, 627 00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 2: Kentucky State Police Trooper King. You mentioned that several of 628 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 2: your people had to come outside and quote your words, 629 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,479 Speaker 2: collect themselves. I will never forget as a prosecutor coming 630 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,959 Speaker 2: up to a murder scene and I saw the first 631 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 2: thing I saw was an APD Atlanta Police Department officer 632 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 2: outside bent over vomiting. First thing I saw. I said 633 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 2: what happened to him as I walked in? And they say, Rookie, 634 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:42,439 Speaker 2: he had never seen a homicide scene or smelled, which 635 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 2: I think is much worse a homicide scene. Before all 636 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 2: that aside the first child homicide I ever had, I'll 637 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 2: never forget it. I'll never forget it. I had to 638 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 2: pretend I was looking for a witness in the hall. 639 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 2: I asked to be excused in the courtroom so I 640 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 2: could go outside, quickly, find a lady's bathroom, go in 641 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 2: a stall, and just get it together and get back 642 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 2: in there and prosecute that case. Describe to me the 643 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 2: reaction of the other troopers and l law enforcement when 644 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 2: they realize. 645 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 1: They have found Maya, a little baby girl. You know 646 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: how much people would pay in this country fifty sixty grand. 647 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 2: Or more to have a little baby girl like her, 648 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,439 Speaker 2: and here she is wrapped up in plastic and dead 649 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 2: under a bunch of trash. 650 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, it was very surreal, and in fact, I think 651 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 5: the lead investigator was he almost felt like he was 652 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,799 Speaker 5: on the wrong path. He really was hopeful. We all 653 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 5: were very optimistic, and we certainly did not expect to 654 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 5: find her there, and we really wanted her to be 655 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,240 Speaker 5: alive somewhere. That's why we kept this case in the forefront. 656 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 5: Every day we was doing updates. I know Ms Carter 657 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:11,879 Speaker 5: can tell you we were out on the scene every 658 00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 5: day making sure even the smallest bit of information was there. 659 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,520 Speaker 5: As soon as we found her little body, and what 660 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,960 Speaker 5: comes along with a decaying body, that crushed everyone's spirit. 661 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 5: And it really you can just you can just feel 662 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,360 Speaker 5: the tension in the air, and we all huddled, and 663 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 5: that completely changed the dynamic of our investigation. We went 664 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 5: from a search investigation hopefully we would find her alive, 665 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 5: and then it went to a death investigation and in 666 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 5: a matter of a snap of a finger, it changed 667 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 5: and everyone's mood went completely A one eighty Trooper. 668 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 2: Corey King, I want to thank you on behalf of everyone, 669 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 2: and please pass on to your people our deep, deep thing. 670 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for finding this baby. The only thing left now 671 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: is to seek justice. 672 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 2: Thank you to our guests, and I want to thank 673 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:18,800 Speaker 2: you for caring about these crime victims, especially maybe Maya. 674 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend.