Speaker 1: Jack Get in your paranormal studies, have you encountered any
Speaker 1: Matilda's any people with Matilda powers? Oh?
Speaker 2: That is a great question. I mean there's been a
Speaker 2: Matilda adjacent people. But honestly, if I heard about Matilda,
Speaker 2: if somebody came to me claiming to be Matilda, I
Speaker 2: think I'd be skeptical of them right off the bat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right right? Read so good that you can
Speaker 1: move things with your mind? Come on, exactly, chocolate cake
Speaker 1: thrown at your teacher or whatever? That didn't you do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean there's a I know that somebody made it
Speaker 1: was forced to eat a cake. She's like starts out
Speaker 1: with the standard gateway crime of spilling water on this
Speaker 1: on her teacher, but then it moves on to chocolate
Speaker 1: cake and then writing spooky message on the board with
Speaker 1: her brain. That's a good one.
Speaker 2: I mean that cake scene was supposed to be torturous,
Speaker 2: but I feel like I can handle it.
Speaker 3: I know, one of the best looking cakes in cinema history.
Speaker 1: Did they make it look so good? It's delicious? I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 3: I feel like just food and movies always looks good,
Speaker 3: like the when in Jurassic Park when they get back into.
Speaker 1: The visitors Jello, all of it, the ice ice cream,
Speaker 1: because it's melty ice cream too. Just oh, it's just
Speaker 1: the way they're fucking their way.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And I think what those kids are gone
Speaker 3: for like fucking ten hours at that point, right, But anyway,
Speaker 3: that's mine.
Speaker 1: I'm about to eat, doctor Grant. I was so hungry
Speaker 1: out there, Bro, you were gone for three hours. Tell
Speaker 1: you one bit of food that didn't look like it
Speaker 1: tastes good. In Jurassic Park, Samuel L. Jackson, that guy's
Speaker 1: smoking so much. I bet I bet the dinosaurs spit
Speaker 1: him right out. I think you're gonna say that pile
Speaker 1: of shit. Nobody was checking for that. Hello the Internet,
Speaker 1: and welcome to season four to twelve, Episode two of
Speaker 1: Didi's Eight Guys. This is a production of iHeart Radio's
Speaker 1: the podcast where you take a deep dive into america
Speaker 1: Shared consciousness, and this week that shared consciousness got cobwebs
Speaker 1: in it. The spookiest thing that anything can have. Talking
Speaker 1: about virgins, talking about virgins, Yo, we light a candle
Speaker 1: if you're a virgin in Salem. Talking about yesterday's episode
Speaker 1: in hocus Pocus, how everybody keeps roasting that fourteen year
Speaker 1: old boy for being a virgin, including his six year
Speaker 1: old sister. I have not seen that movie in a while. Apparently,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I hadn't either. I saw when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, and I was just like getting slammed as
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old as a fold for being a
Speaker 1: virgin by children like and then by a ghost of
Speaker 1: a Puritan.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's weird that this guy hasn't fucked yet.
Speaker 2: Famously, the Puritans would not think that, hence the name.
Speaker 1: That's right, although there is a I talked about this episode,
Speaker 1: but there is a school of thought that thinks that
Speaker 1: the Puritans had so many rules about not having sex
Speaker 1: because they were fucking so much that eyewitnesses like the
Speaker 1: obvious he's doing fucking public anymore. Yes, that's funny.
Speaker 3: That Puritan's name Factory Binks. I was like, what a
Speaker 3: fucking dumb name, dude.
Speaker 1: Oh come on, man, they ate with that. Factory Binks
Speaker 1: is like fucking that's like George Lucas level bullshit name.
Speaker 3: I forgot to I forgot to bring this up with
Speaker 3: the actor who plays the kid Max. I think the
Speaker 3: main kid he's now just like in a like he's
Speaker 3: just like a weed grow did. Yeah, we'd get hell yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's better than the fate of a lot
Speaker 2: of nineties actors where they're yeah yeah, shot up with
Speaker 2: gas station or something. That's like, I feel like half
Speaker 2: of the people I saw in movies that I liked
Speaker 2: as a kid.
Speaker 1: And want to oh starters like half the Power Rangers.
Speaker 1: You know, you don't know. We could open that wikuld
Speaker 1: be up and see it written in the past tense,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. No, yeah, by the way,
Speaker 1: it says he was an actor, and I'm like, uh oh,
Speaker 1: but he's fully on weed dude company off the ground exactly.
Speaker 2: No disrespect. He's probably making so much more money in
Speaker 2: the week.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Basically, I'm looking. I was, I was,
Speaker 1: I was trolling his I g did not seem that popping. Yeah, okay, well,
Speaker 1: at least I'm hoping he's happy. The update was that
Speaker 1: he still keeps in touch with some of the people
Speaker 1: who were in Hocus Pocus with him. That's like one
Speaker 1: of the And here's what we know of him now
Speaker 1: because they kill it at the cons. They go do signings. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they want they want to meet him.
Speaker 2: Here's something about hocus Pocus, I could share by all means,
Speaker 2: I remember being very attracted to Sarah Jessica Parker's character
Speaker 2: in it when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: What's wrong with you? Why? What? What was going on?
Speaker 2: But I've never had that experience with any other Sarah
Speaker 2: Jessica Parker role. Yeah, And I don't even know if
Speaker 2: I realized it was her, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: It was the thicker eyebrows. You know what I mean,
Speaker 3: maybe you didn't have as thick an eyebrow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was gonna be my guess to the thicker eyebrows.
Speaker 2: It's like specifically the witch version of her and no
Speaker 2: other role.
Speaker 1: I mean, I followed her her body of work for
Speaker 1: many years. It's one of her better performances. Like she
Speaker 1: she gives a great performance. She fully embodies that kind
Speaker 1: of dizzy, silly, off balance character. Yes, yeah, yeah, we have.
Speaker 1: Do people give their flowers a Kathya Gemie enough? Not nearly?
Speaker 1: So she's doing like a weird mouth thing in that
Speaker 1: one where she like only has control of one side
Speaker 1: of her mouth. Never explained, just a bit of business
Speaker 1: for herself to be doing.
Speaker 2: Gmmis insane. Pol I don't know if you guys have
Speaker 2: IMDb in front of you, or if you just have encyclopedic.
Speaker 1: No again, she was his sister. Aye, that's killed it, sister.
Speaker 1: Never forget Kathy a Gmians. But yeah, there's something about
Speaker 1: Sarah Jesaca Parker's makeup, even though like it's pretty. It's
Speaker 1: not like she's wearing prosthetics or anything. But I watched
Speaker 1: it with my family yesterday and my wife, who's like
Speaker 1: very IMDb brained and like has like facial recognition technology
Speaker 1: and her brain was surprised that it was Sara Jessica Parker. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it never happens. Can't catch her sleeping on. It's the
Speaker 1: darker eye makeup and eyebrows, I'm telling you. Anyways, it
Speaker 1: is Tuesday, October twenty eighth, twenty twenty five. Yeah, three
Speaker 1: days from the spookiest day of the year. Oh hell
Speaker 1: yeah I do. But of course what are we celebrating.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's also a National first Responder's Day, National Internal
Speaker 3: Medicine Day, Wow, very very healthy, real safety. And also
Speaker 3: National Chocolate Day that feels more in line with the
Speaker 3: week of Halloween. It's National Chocolate Day. That feels there's
Speaker 3: so many there's like forty National Chocolate Day. I was
Speaker 3: gonna say, I feel like there's a lot too many. Yeah,
Speaker 3: to tie those things together. A block from where I'm
Speaker 3: recording is a place that I think is very strange.
Speaker 3: It's a dispensary. It has dispensary, but it's a chocolate dispensary.
Speaker 1: They do not really.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, dispensary. I know what you're talking about. It
Speaker 3: it's and it's a place. I think we brought it
Speaker 3: up on the show to where before you have been
Speaker 3: on Jack. But like the people in there, like I've
Speaker 3: heard the owner really hates that people think there's weed
Speaker 3: in there, even though it's a real type.
Speaker 2: Of guy to be to start business Los Angeles and
Speaker 2: your business has dispensary on it, It's like, why.
Speaker 1: Would you are the edibles? I mean, yes, they're all edible.
Speaker 2: It's like the guy starts a root beer store and
Speaker 2: the scientist a big neon sign says beer cold to
Speaker 2: be thinking there's Pacifico's here, what the yeah?
Speaker 1: But indeed it's just part of the Like chocolate is
Speaker 1: a drug kind of loved in the late nineties where
Speaker 1: it's like I'm a chocoholic. I can't stop I.
Speaker 3: Think it's meant to just be like very just like
Speaker 3: the most buy the book definition of a dispensary, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, it's how they look at their place.
Speaker 1: Anyway. They got it from me. The weed stores got
Speaker 1: it from me. Anyways. My name is Jack O'Brien aka
Speaker 1: Jackhammer Killer oh Dan of course courtesy of Snarfila on
Speaker 1: the Treehouse of Horror's nickname this is I discovered a
Speaker 1: reference to a two thousand and four film called The
Speaker 1: Jackhammer Massacre. I think I have to assume that's who
Speaker 1: The Jackhammer Killer is about, a guy who you guessed
Speaker 1: it uses a jackhammer to kill people. It does sound
Speaker 1: like he's the protagonist, Like it's a you follow his dissent.
Speaker 1: He's like a businessman and his friend dies and that
Speaker 1: like sends him over the edge. So it's like a
Speaker 1: Michael Douglas falling down American psycho situation. He is, and
Speaker 1: this is a spoiler alert for anybody who's planning on
Speaker 1: checking it out, he is ultimately undone by the fact
Speaker 1: that the jackhammer needs to be plugged in.
Speaker 2: If it comes unplugged, God, is that even true? I mean,
Speaker 2: I feel like they have need my power than that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have assumed that it is just something
Speaker 1: you like edit out, but they were like, no, this
Speaker 1: is gonna be the crux.
Speaker 2: Of Oh okay, wait no, he's probably using like a
Speaker 2: more handheld jackhammer, like, uh okay, interesting he doesn't have
Speaker 2: like a cordless Makida option. It's a yeah, I would
Speaker 2: miss my probably made before the cordless era. I guess
Speaker 2: two thousand and four. You'd think or like a gas
Speaker 2: powered one, you know what I mean, where you could
Speaker 2: do like a scary like rip the cord and it's
Speaker 2: like instead, it was like, hold on, let me plug
Speaker 2: this in really like a like a hot glue bull.
Speaker 1: Hey you got a fifty foot extension. That's what happens.
Speaker 1: The cord comes unflugged. That does if I were a slasher.
Speaker 1: That does sound like the sort of ship that would
Speaker 1: get me caught up over the house and then find
Speaker 1: an outlet. That's really funny. Oh, it's one of the
Speaker 1: ones that attached to the light switch, so I have
Speaker 1: to like turn the lights on to get the quigged in.
Speaker 1: It's a too prong's you don't have gfcason here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my
Speaker 3: co host, mister Miles Gras. It's Miles Gray Gay trust dementia,
Speaker 3: Trust got dementia, Trust got dementia.
Speaker 2: Trus got dementia, or Truans got dementia, or Trum's got dementia,
Speaker 2: but dementia trus dementia.
Speaker 1: Okay, shout out to me.
Speaker 3: This morning, we were talking about intergalactic we were talking
Speaker 3: about Jack coming on. We're talking about intergalactic ship, and
Speaker 3: then we were also talking about that we would have
Speaker 3: also accepted another dementia, another dementia because we got two
Speaker 3: presidents in a row.
Speaker 1: Baby, everyone's got dementia.
Speaker 3: Baby, if you gotta be on the hill, you gotta
Speaker 3: have rocket dementia. Congress by dementia. Yeah, Congress too. It's
Speaker 3: so many of them. We have the geriatric Congress night
Speaker 3: right now. It's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think people who have who can barely
Speaker 3: know if they're going to be alive for the next
Speaker 3: three months, be dictating what the future looks like ten
Speaker 3: years from now.
Speaker 1: Get them out of here. Get them all out of here.
Speaker 1: I'm just going, I'm sorry, I'm agist. Get him out
Speaker 1: for something at a certain hundred percent. Yah, get them
Speaker 1: out of there agism is just like I don't. I'm
Speaker 1: worried for them. I got it. And every time there's
Speaker 1: a video of Mitch McConnell, like, I'm like, is he
Speaker 1: going to make it through this video, let alone the day?
Speaker 1: Like it's harrowing. Anyways, Miles, we're thrilled to be joined
Speaker 1: in our third seat once again by the director, journalist,
Speaker 1: and hosts behind one of the great podcasts. It is
Speaker 1: about as I think he put it the first time.
Speaker 1: He was on the fact that the world is queerer
Speaker 1: than many of us suppose, indeed, queer than many of
Speaker 1: us can suppose. It's called other world. He's called Jack Wagner.
Speaker 2: To be clear, I did not say that, but thank
Speaker 2: you for having me on the show. It's a pleasure
Speaker 2: as always to be here. I did not call my
Speaker 2: show queer. If I did, it would be in a
Speaker 2: positive way.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yes, that fake quote, I thought, Man, did
Speaker 1: you actually think time? Did you actually think I said
Speaker 1: that I had that quote and maybe it was something
Speaker 1: that I thought was I think it was being used
Speaker 1: to describe the paranormal. Wait, that's me. I said.
Speaker 2: It's original, it's giving pre nineteen hundred. Yes, for sure,
Speaker 2: for sure, for sure, but I'll take it. I'll take
Speaker 2: it's a good quote.
Speaker 1: It's a good quote. Quote sums up some of my
Speaker 1: favorite parts of you.
Speaker 2: Although you should start doing that to every guest is
Speaker 2: kind of like ye and see what they do with
Speaker 2: it if it's a good quote, Like I mean, sometimes
Speaker 2: you might want to take credit.
Speaker 1: Why not? You know? Yeah, Jack, thank you so much
Speaker 1: for coming back. You think you any travels and travails
Speaker 1: since you were last we wanted to have you on
Speaker 1: on the spookiest of weeks. Thank you. Your podcast is
Speaker 1: so good. We're gonna end up just being like, man,
Speaker 1: you remember that episode that was crazy and sometimes I
Speaker 1: might not remember it, which is the craziest part. True,
Speaker 1: is that real, dude? So we're gonna We're gonna basically
Speaker 1: do that in the body of the episode. Hell yeah.
Speaker 1: But first we do like to get to know our
Speaker 1: guests a little bit better by asking you, what is
Speaker 1: something from your search history that's revealing about who you are?
Speaker 2: Okay, this is I have an answer to this. It's
Speaker 2: a it's a layered response though, and this actually it
Speaker 2: sort of caused a lot of reflection for me. I
Speaker 2: searched through my Google search history. Normally this should be horrifying, right, like,
Speaker 2: this is not something you want even your significant other
Speaker 2: to access. I was scrolling through mine, dead serious, completely dry.
Speaker 2: It would dox me. So I'm not gonna let you look,
Speaker 2: but I would let you look. It's that boring. I
Speaker 2: had to scroll three weeks back to find something interesting, dude,
Speaker 2: I'm telling.
Speaker 1: You how mundane it was. I was like, literally for
Speaker 1: bigger right foot, not even that dry.
Speaker 2: I was just like purely looking up like addresses, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, right, dinner in Echo Park just that,
Speaker 2: and then like kind of googling just facts to confirm,
Speaker 2: like spellings of things, no spice whatsoever, just no flavor,
Speaker 2: no fun, no wild cards. I was looking at this
Speaker 2: and had to go three weeks back in the history
Speaker 2: to find something, you know, off color, funny, weird. But
Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, I think I need to get to
Speaker 2: I need to go back to my roots and get
Speaker 2: a little weirder because this is.
Speaker 1: The last three weeks. I yeah, hold a mirror up
Speaker 1: to you that you didn't.
Speaker 2: Know nothing even embarrassing. Damn, I think even embarrassing. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: Ones do flies?
Speaker 3: Fuck, that's a great search. See, I don't even have
Speaker 3: any of that, dude, And I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, and part of it just sort of reveals
Speaker 3: my own ignorance. But that's the fun of it, right,
Speaker 3: just being transparent about how little I know about how
Speaker 3: flies copulate?
Speaker 1: Do they? Is it? I feel like it must be
Speaker 1: an egg situation in the larva, right, that's what you think.
Speaker 3: Until I caught him banging outside on a chair.
Speaker 1: I was, and I was like, how are they hit it? Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, like straight from the like from the back. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: some interesting on another fly the female uses like an
Speaker 3: egg two to like it's it's very interesting.
Speaker 1: Anyway, So you got nothing very dry? No? No, okay,
Speaker 1: so I scrolled where did you get? No?
Speaker 2: I did find one? Oh god, yeah, I I'm Stephen
Speaker 2: looking at it right now. This is uh so embarrassing.
Speaker 2: I'm like looking up sponsors, like you know, you guys
Speaker 2: do ads, like I'm sure you have to go through
Speaker 2: the approvals of like brands that could be advertising on
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 1: I'm just googling that.
Speaker 2: But anyway, the little ultra evil. Yes, But the one
Speaker 2: I found that I do think is funny is can
Speaker 2: water go bad?
Speaker 1: Mm?
Speaker 2: Yeah? This is not a question for me, but I
Speaker 2: did want to know. This was like something I was
Speaker 2: arguing with my wife about. She thinks water could go bad.
Speaker 2: I'm like, they get the bottles, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: that's that's what we read. How long a cup sitting
Speaker 2: out in the house? How long sitting there until you
Speaker 2: can't drink it?
Speaker 3: I mean you probably just evaporate at that point. I'm
Speaker 3: more thinking like a bottle of water, like, oh, that
Speaker 3: ship said drink by like ninety eight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another good question.
Speaker 2: I mean, if it's plastic, I would be a little
Speaker 2: concerned that tasting.
Speaker 1: Like plastic is usually like my if it If it
Speaker 1: tastes like plastic, you usually that happens if it's like
Speaker 1: been in a car like for fifteen cycles of like the.
Speaker 2: Moon, well fifteen moon cycles. Yeah, yeah, let me ask you.
Speaker 2: That's like water. There's like a cup of water on
Speaker 2: the side of your bed, yes, from the night before?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Would you drink it the next night if it was
Speaker 2: there and available and you needed it. I don't get
Speaker 2: in the plants tastes like room.
Speaker 1: Tastes like room.
Speaker 3: Okay, it tastes like there, it absorbs like be fucking
Speaker 3: in that. I don't care about that. It just tastes
Speaker 3: like room. Tastes like the room, like an overnight cup.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe I would get a little tiny bubbles on the foot. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it just gets It's just a little stale.
Speaker 1: I guess that's how I think. Yeah, this is just
Speaker 1: something I wanted to know.
Speaker 3: You know, Wait, so is there an answer no that
Speaker 3: it cannot like what scenario?
Speaker 1: Because I forgot? Can't water go bad?
Speaker 2: I mean no, I think it's the answer is no,
Speaker 2: but like I think it's oh wait, yes, water can
Speaker 2: come back. Technically, the water itself does not expire. The
Speaker 2: main issue are contaminants from the container or outside sources,
Speaker 2: degradation of the canar itself over time, especially if exposed
Speaker 2: to heat or sunlight. So you know, we were not
Speaker 2: far off, far off.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing that I'm always imagining happening is I
Speaker 1: took a sip my mouth, germs have like somehow invaded
Speaker 1: and started to colonize the wall, and it's going to
Speaker 1: just be like bad bread in there. It's just like
Speaker 1: that inside your body, right, yeah, exactly, So I should
Speaker 1: be fine, but none, none of the les us. I'm
Speaker 1: like I'll take a this is for the plants. Now,
Speaker 1: this is for the kids. I put it in my kids.
Speaker 1: A little cooler with your mouth, exactly? Do we pass
Speaker 1: our legacy along? What is something you think is underrated? Jack?
Speaker 1: Waking up early is underrated? Waking up early?
Speaker 2: I like, I'm a big fan of waking up super early.
Speaker 2: How up before sunrise if possible? So Mark, some like
Speaker 2: Mark Wahlberg, shit not on that. I mean, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: In fact, I'll say I will say that being buff
Speaker 2: is overrated.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Waking up early under that's crazy because most
Speaker 1: people that are fucking jacked, dude, are waking up early. Man,
Speaker 1: you and a bunch of jacked people who are awake
Speaker 1: and moving at the time that you're waking up.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I think you know the gym crowd
Speaker 2: they have to do and there are there are the
Speaker 2: late night gym people. That's right, some serious jack dudes
Speaker 2: will be in there at like weird hours, like a
Speaker 2: let and thirty working out.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, so you gotta get three hours of
Speaker 1: workout in every day, you know, you got to pick
Speaker 1: your spots.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But I would say, I'll yeah, I'll keep
Speaker 2: with this line and say that being buff is overrated.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I think, uh, if you are buff,
Speaker 2: more power to you. I think so much of it
Speaker 2: is genetics, you know. In fact, like Matthew McConaughey I
Speaker 2: think was like quoted saying that he just like kind
Speaker 2: of randomly bangs out push ups throughout the day and
Speaker 2: like doesn't really have a routine.
Speaker 1: I think it was. But it's like, yeah, there are
Speaker 1: guys who just kind of look like that just genuinely
Speaker 1: looks great without a shirt on since he was like
Speaker 1: ten years old.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then like for your resisting nature, it's like
Speaker 2: really really hard to change it. But yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I think it's overrated. Like like to to really be
Speaker 2: that shredded, it's like a full time job. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: a lot of time, a lot of dedication. I'm like
Speaker 2: it's crazy, and we have a Yeah, training is overrated.
Speaker 1: I'll just say that.
Speaker 2: America's obsessed training, now, you know. I mean like that's yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean ethos, social media, like it's like gym talk
Speaker 2: kind of ship. Yeah, I mean there's like the whole
Speaker 2: hybrid thing between like the CrossFit like military adjacent I
Speaker 2: think there's like a there's like a certain type of
Speaker 2: person that like, uh works out in a stolen valor
Speaker 2: type of way.
Speaker 1: I don't know in their mind. Maybe I don't know
Speaker 1: where I'm going.
Speaker 2: With this, but uh, you know, I think there's guys,
Speaker 2: well I think there's a huge chunk of America that
Speaker 2: they're like training for something that's gonna they think might happen,
Speaker 2: and it's just never gonna happen.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's the same thing with like the gun guys training
Speaker 2: the weapons, like they're doing like the tactical training. You know,
Speaker 2: they're buying all the gear. They're like kind of waiting
Speaker 2: for the ship to hit the fan. But yeah, now
Speaker 2: they just have to join ice ship that rarely hits
Speaker 2: the fan. Yeah, well now they have that, they have
Speaker 2: that outlet.
Speaker 1: But it seem like it's the buff guys or the
Speaker 1: guys who are training with guns that are doing I
Speaker 1: think fitness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you could let a lot of you
Speaker 2: could waste a lot of time training.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, everybody is in the movies. Everyone's buff.
Speaker 1: Now it's just like you know, the like objectively does
Speaker 1: Iron Man? Does it make sense that Tony Stark is
Speaker 1: like a jacked dude, like he's supposed to be.
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter a scientist because at his most potent
Speaker 3: form is some jacked iron body and.
Speaker 1: The like he's over. He's compensating for the physical realities
Speaker 1: by creating this like metal body that can encase him.
Speaker 1: It would make more sense if he was a skinny
Speaker 1: you know, you're right scientially, But instead they were like, dude,
Speaker 1: you're gonna need to spend a year get starting to
Speaker 1: look like Superman, drinking goat and mill.
Speaker 2: If he was in the suit all the time, he
Speaker 2: would have almost no muscle mass point Yeah, yeah, because
Speaker 2: like he wouldn't be using his muscles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be amazing. Victory the superproduser Victor said
Speaker 1: he would have Elon Musk's body type. Amazing damn I
Speaker 1: god fit giant Torso Jarvis a just mid section please
Speaker 1: there's I mean.
Speaker 3: It's funny though, too, because I think we were talking
Speaker 3: about this last week about how all the leading men
Speaker 3: are just so fucking rich with everyone fucking body fat,
Speaker 3: and I'm like on gear though, yeah, I was like,
Speaker 3: but remember, like Kevin Costner was like the fucking height
Speaker 3: of it, Like in Americans, like, oh god, this guy
Speaker 3: that looks like he doesn't work out ever, and just
Speaker 3: that's the ideal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like he's like naturally fit enough. Okay, here's a
Speaker 2: good Google search Kevin Costner shirtless. See that would have
Speaker 2: been I'm looking at right now. He looked there's the
Speaker 2: one with the chest hair right, Oh, I mean hill
Speaker 2: him in Bull Durham.
Speaker 1: That's like.
Speaker 2: That's kind of like where you want to be. That's
Speaker 2: a good place to be as a guy. I mean,
Speaker 2: you could get a little more muscle, but you know
Speaker 2: my ideal body type Kevin Costner and Bull Durham. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like not a ton of muscle, but he's looking good.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, buff doesn't work all the time. Though
Speaker 1: it's not bad.
Speaker 2: There's a way that there's like a six pack if
Speaker 2: you're not meant to have one spiritually, it's like not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You ever seeing somebody that like works really hard to
Speaker 2: get one. Then you see it and you're like, did
Speaker 2: not expect you to have that? And I don't know
Speaker 2: if I feel.
Speaker 1: Comfortable with it? What the fuck? What do you do?
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, You're at the end of
Speaker 2: the beach and it's like a really pasty dude. It
Speaker 2: almost looks he has a photoshopped set of abs on.
Speaker 1: It's creepy. Yeah, that's Jack. I'm just looking the photoshopped
Speaker 1: as well. You tape the photo on your stomach. But
Speaker 1: I'm just remembering the Kevin Costner swimming in a in
Speaker 1: Robin Hood. He's like taking a bath in a waterfall.
Speaker 1: And that is the reverse of the Iron Man, where
Speaker 1: it's like, wait, this doesn't make sense that he would
Speaker 1: be this Jack. It's he's like supposed to be the
Speaker 1: fucking hottestitude ever. He's like getting out of a shower,
Speaker 1: out of you know, the equivalent, the Robinhood equivalent of
Speaker 1: the shower, which is a waterfall. And like Maid Marian
Speaker 1: is like visibly being like, oh god, I'm looking at this.
Speaker 1: D Yeah, dude, how are you gonna say that? He
Speaker 1: looks like, you know, this is normal, looks like regular. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's like extra regular, extra me Robin Hood bringing back
Speaker 1: extra regular. Yeah. Oh wow, was this ass out in
Speaker 1: the movie? His asses out, remember, and he has tand lines.
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 3: The sun is strong out there in Sherwood for us.
Speaker 3: All right, we're gonna, we're gonna, you got there. I
Speaker 3: imagine this is normal saddle show. But yeah, yeah, this
Speaker 3: is about so yeah Kevin Costs and.
Speaker 1: Our shirtless Let's take a quick break and we'll come
Speaker 1: back and talk about Oija. We'll be right back, and
Speaker 1: we're back. We're back. And uh. You did a couple
Speaker 1: episodes on WIGE Awards, yes a year ago or so
Speaker 1: and then a more recent one where you cover the
Speaker 1: phenomenon of Zozo and Zaza.
Speaker 2: Who I mean, it's funny, it's it is funny. The
Speaker 2: aren't The episodes aren't funny, they're scary, but they are spooky.
Speaker 1: I was getting spooked. It's getting downright spooked to listen
Speaker 1: to those things. It's kind of like, he reminds me,
Speaker 1: have you ever been in a meeting where like someone
Speaker 1: zoom bombs it, like usually a teenager fuck you, like
Speaker 1: just as the worst thing they could think of in
Speaker 1: that That's really funny though.
Speaker 3: That's like such a twenty twenty kind of It was
Speaker 3: a real zoom bombing.
Speaker 1: It was a it was a real pandemic thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that kind of feels like, what's happening. It's like
Speaker 1: these two malevolent spirits that keep and so here. The
Speaker 1: thing that is creepy about it is that you're taught
Speaker 1: you the format of your shows. You talk to people
Speaker 1: who they then tell their story of this thing that
Speaker 1: resists sort of explanation happening to them, and so it's
Speaker 1: like almost an oral tradition. You get to hear the
Speaker 1: story from them. It adds a real like layer of
Speaker 1: like I don't know that's this is like it's hard
Speaker 1: to deny when people are like, yeah, so like I
Speaker 1: was in high school, like this is the weird shit
Speaker 1: that I was doing, and then like this thing started happening.
Speaker 1: And in this case that like people were fucking around
Speaker 1: with Wiji boards and like they started having these like
Speaker 1: really dark messages come through and it was Zozo in
Speaker 1: the episodes from last year was like what they kept
Speaker 1: it kept going zo zo zo and like they they
Speaker 1: didn't realize it at the time, but like you do
Speaker 1: the research and this is a there's a trend across
Speaker 1: people who fuck around with Wigi boards of like this
Speaker 1: specific thing happened.
Speaker 3: Oh and Zaza is like a common Ouiji board.
Speaker 2: It's like a very common thing, very common. There's like
Speaker 2: a movie called I Am Zozo that I think is
Speaker 2: like not very well reviewed. I think it's like a
Speaker 2: thirteen percent rotten tomato situation, but a classic. But yeah,
Speaker 2: this is like a massive thing, and you know, I
Speaker 2: had heard of it, Like I I think I had
Speaker 2: heard of like the concept just from being on the
Speaker 2: internet or something. But it's totally something that I would
Speaker 2: completely laugh at and not want to do on the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you were consciously making up names. Those
Speaker 1: would not be the names you came in.
Speaker 2: Sounds like a big name that like a thirteen year
Speaker 2: old girl she's like to write a horror movie for
Speaker 2: the first time, like a like.
Speaker 1: A five year old that lies a lot.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly, but it is weird, And yeah, I
Speaker 4: started getting a lot of emails about it, and then
Speaker 4: you know, obviously people I ended up interviewing had like
Speaker 4: really intense stories that involve this, and apparently it's really
Speaker 4: common for something to kind of like take over on
Speaker 4: the board and identify itself by this name.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I guess that was.
Speaker 2: Like where it turned for me, is when I was
Speaker 2: starting to talk to people who like weren't aware that
Speaker 2: this is a phenomena that's known, and even things that
Speaker 2: kind of like happened before the anybody was talking about
Speaker 2: this at all on the internet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so my read like heading in was more like
Speaker 1: I think weedi words are super interesting because I do
Speaker 1: think like they're you know, like like skeptics will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's just like people you know, moving the thing on purpose,
Speaker 1: and I tend to think it's like more they're moving
Speaker 1: it and don't realize they're doing it, and so this
Speaker 1: like part of them is being expressed that they don't
Speaker 1: have access to or like control over, you know, like
Speaker 1: it's like a sort of YOUNGI in like some part
Speaker 1: of and in this case, it would be like a
Speaker 1: shared unconscious because they all have the same name and
Speaker 1: like this that is associated with the same like dark energy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which I think like that doesn't explain everything, but I
Speaker 1: do think it's easy. Like this comes up a lot
Speaker 1: on our show in reference to like the story of
Speaker 1: Havana syndrome, where everyone was like, oh, they were making
Speaker 1: it up, and it's like, I don't think they were
Speaker 1: intentionally making it up. Like I think they experienced those
Speaker 1: realities of like a bad thing like getting hit with
Speaker 1: a sound beam or being like under attack by some
Speaker 1: like invisible force that it turns out as like kind
Speaker 1: of physically impossible to have happened.
Speaker 2: But like they I know, I'm sorry to force a detour,
Speaker 2: but they ever find a solution for that?
Speaker 1: Was there any closure? It's not like officially, but you know,
Speaker 1: you as documents have been released the CIA themselves and
Speaker 1: and like the different departments, the Pentagon, like prior to
Speaker 1: the Trump takeover, all seemed to be like, we don't
Speaker 1: think there was any like physical basis for these attacks,
Speaker 1: and these are our organizations that would seemingly love a
Speaker 1: physical basis for an attack that they could, you know,
Speaker 1: start getting funding around.
Speaker 2: Because I heard compelling explanations on both sides of it.
Speaker 2: Like I first encountered it as something that was just
Speaker 2: complete nonsense. It was like evil CIA people having like
Speaker 2: maybe internalized guilt for the horrible things to right at work. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but you know, but then I've also heard some stuff
Speaker 2: that was really compelling on the other side, Like there's
Speaker 2: I listened to it like a series where it interviewed
Speaker 2: some people who had experienced it in a town. Isn't
Speaker 2: really intense, but anyway, you could continue with your point.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I think that that's true. I think that
Speaker 1: they experienced harrowing things. I think I think the power
Speaker 1: of the unconscious mind is like the great underrated force
Speaker 1: of people's existence. And I think like ritual and you know,
Speaker 1: all these things that we don't really make room for officially,
Speaker 1: as like mattering in our world. In a lot of cases,
Speaker 1: like are ways of accessing that. And I think I
Speaker 1: just think that people are like, if it's their own
Speaker 1: conscious mind, then it's like skeptic skeptic view not interesting.
Speaker 1: And I think that's actually like really interesting, Like that's
Speaker 1: kind of what's going on. But there are definitely parts
Speaker 1: of the story that would make it like impossible for that.
Speaker 1: Like there's one part where it predicts that they're they're
Speaker 1: at like a high school movie screening on a football field,
Speaker 1: and it is like it predicts that the projector is
Speaker 1: about to go down and it does. Yeah, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's a ton of stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And I mean also the fact that in that story
Speaker 2: this occurred before this whole Zozo thing was like a
Speaker 2: trend like a decade before.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the other thing is like the basis for
Speaker 2: pooh pooing wig aboards as they say, it's like the
Speaker 2: ideo motor effect. It's like this idea that like microscopic
Speaker 2: muscle movements in a group can like guide the thing
Speaker 2: the plan chet. But and that's you know, like the
Speaker 2: idio motor effect is like a real thing. I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure it's been like proven to exist. But if you
Speaker 2: look at the board like ZO, like Z is all
Speaker 2: the way at the end, oh is not equally the
Speaker 2: at the end on the opposite side, it's like one roller.
Speaker 2: So I just think, like if you guys, if like
Speaker 2: like I know, people explain it away by saying like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's just sort of like in the downtime between you know,
Speaker 2: the radio motor effect spelling out a word, people just
Speaker 2: kind of like go to the side to side pattern
Speaker 2: and hit that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I just don't think it would hit z
Speaker 1: O or ZA for that matter. Right, it's two specifics
Speaker 1: things from each other. Yeah, it's too common. It's too
Speaker 1: common out I would expect to see other patterns of
Speaker 1: that sort. And that's sort of what I I kind
Speaker 1: of come to those conclusions a lot on the show
Speaker 1: where I'm very open to looking at it both ways,
Speaker 1: but sort of like, well, I would expect to see more,
Speaker 1: like I'm same with like the hat Man stuff right
Speaker 1: down the hat Man stuff. The hat Man is this
Speaker 1: very common shadow figure that people see oftentimes in sleep prolysis,
Speaker 1: but people see it not during sleep parroalysis. It's just
Speaker 1: the shadow shadow man that looks like he's wearing like
Speaker 1: a wide brimmed and sometimes he has red eyes. There's
Speaker 1: like another thing that I would have laughed at and
Speaker 1: thought was corny until I realized like how common this is.
Speaker 1: And it's like a localized thing because I mean I've
Speaker 1: I seen it was all over the place, right, so,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of what makes it sort of interesting.
Speaker 3: It's not just like, well, these group of kids over
Speaker 3: here SA when they're fucking around with ambient or something.
Speaker 3: It's like, no, this is it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's that too, Yeah, the benda dryl thing.
Speaker 2: But but yeah that. And then in sleep paralysis, there's
Speaker 2: like a few common things people see. The other one
Speaker 2: is like the old Hag, which is like this woman
Speaker 2: sitting on you. And then this is sort of the
Speaker 2: same thing, but like the Mayor the night This is
Speaker 2: like the origin for the term nightmare. Is this thing
Speaker 2: sitting on you and holding you down. But anyway, there's
Speaker 2: like is it a horse? The mayor is a horse?
Speaker 2: I think at one point it was like a horse. Yeah,
Speaker 2: kind of like demon thing. I think that's what it
Speaker 2: might have been.
Speaker 1: Damn.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a really old term. But they're like
Speaker 2: pretty much every culture has a similar thing to this,
Speaker 2: and they're all similar looking, like seeing this old woman
Speaker 2: on you or in the case of the hat man,
Speaker 2: how widespread that is. So circling back to the unconscious talk,
Speaker 2: if it was just like the human unconscious whatever that means,
Speaker 2: by the way, right, generating this, you'd expect to see
Speaker 2: a lot more variation, especially throughout time and culture. Like
Speaker 2: I would be very, very surprised, you know, I just
Speaker 2: said that the whole the origin of the term nightmare
Speaker 2: comes from this phenomenon. You would expect going back that
Speaker 2: far that like fears would change enough.
Speaker 1: Why would we have like why wouldn't it be uh tesla?
Speaker 1: You know, that's what we get around. We don't get
Speaker 1: around in uh on horses anymore. We get around on
Speaker 1: so like, wow, why would it still be a horse?
Speaker 1: Why would it be a guy with a big hat
Speaker 1: that like is not a style people wear anymore.
Speaker 2: I would expect to see more like micro trends with it,
Speaker 2: if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and between cultures and stuff. So yeah, that's those
Speaker 2: are the kind of things that interest me, you know.
Speaker 2: And and those two things I did laugh off at first,
Speaker 2: but then kind of reluctantly dug into them, like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is pretty interesting actually and frightening. So I don't
Speaker 2: really know what it is. It's funny that, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think it's sort of a stupid name. I wanted
Speaker 2: to think of another name for that episode besides Zaza,
Speaker 2: Like it killed me to call it Zaza. But that's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think that's interesting though, when it's
Speaker 2: a scary thing that like I'm you know, I'm I'm
Speaker 2: normally somebody that would think it's completely stupid, but the
Speaker 2: story is compelling enough that like pulls me to the
Speaker 2: other side, right, And it's kind of a goofy sounding name,
Speaker 2: but this is that I guess that makes it scarier
Speaker 2: in a way. You're like, no, not Zaza physical well,
Speaker 2: it is like something that like you would kind of
Speaker 2: laugh at it first, you know, totally.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's kind of like the experience
Speaker 3: of listening to your show, Like I remember last time
Speaker 3: You're on was kind of like I think you were
Speaker 3: just getting in to like the Them series of episodes
Speaker 3: and like I'm I'm I'm very skeptical, Like I'm I'm
Speaker 3: one of those people who like even though like Japan
Speaker 3: I'm Japanese, there's like very rich ghost like you know,
Speaker 3: spooky culture there that I'm like, nah, I'm not, I'm
Speaker 3: not seeing any of this stuff. But like in listening
Speaker 3: to your show, because I mean, like I remember when
Speaker 3: you're on Last Time, you're sort of like, I don't
Speaker 3: necessarily believe in everything or at all. It's more just
Speaker 3: like it's it's really interesting to hear these people describe
Speaker 3: these events that have happened and them experience them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and Them one is by far one of the most
Speaker 3: fucking out there things I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker 3: If you like, give like a you know, like a
Speaker 3: three line description of it so people kind of understand
Speaker 3: what I'm about to, like get into here.
Speaker 1: And real quick. Before you were, before we started recording,
Speaker 1: you were had to answer a text message. I have
Speaker 1: to assume it was from one of the interdimension them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you know, I will say interesting timing.
Speaker 2: The girl from that series is visiting right now. She's
Speaker 2: in town, so I met her in person. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: by meetup man, you could look up. Yeah, maybe you'll
Speaker 2: see her walking around in the neighborhood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean yeah, like sort of give a
Speaker 3: light breakdown, because I think it's really interesting to listen
Speaker 3: whether or not you believe in this stuff or skeptical,
Speaker 3: I think it's the experience of listening to it for
Speaker 3: me was very interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you liked it.
Speaker 2: Basically, it's about this girl in Norway who is kind
Speaker 2: of feeling off and basically one night while she's in college,
Speaker 2: sees this strange looking like man in her room, almost
Speaker 2: like a ghost but not quite. She's obviously freaked out,
Speaker 2: has a lot of really strange physical sensations as well
Speaker 2: around this time, and tries to power on with her life,
Speaker 2: but is ultimately just kind of having anxiety about it
Speaker 2: and tweaking as you would expect. So she calls her
Speaker 2: her mom in hopes that her mom will calm her down,
Speaker 2: tells her like, I saw this thing, like I'm feeling
Speaker 2: all this stuff, blah blah blah. But instead of her
Speaker 2: mom calming her down, she was like I was afraid
Speaker 2: this was going to happen, and was like, they're talking
Speaker 2: to you now.
Speaker 1: She's like what, there we go. Yep.
Speaker 2: But so she's like what And so her mom, you know,
Speaker 2: tells her very briefly that she's been communicating with these
Speaker 2: beings for like a long time and is essentially like,
Speaker 2: come home to visit and we'll talk. And at that
Speaker 2: point she finds out that the mom and a girl
Speaker 2: from the mom's gym have been communicating with what they
Speaker 2: think are interdimensional beings for a substantial amount of time
Speaker 2: I forget how long. Yeah, And to make to make
Speaker 2: it stranger, this girl from the gym is the same
Speaker 2: age as soul Vi, and her and the mom have
Speaker 2: like become very close to the point where there she
Speaker 2: becomes like a third sister to them essentially.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like kind of gangers or like they have
Speaker 1: like a lot of between them.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's like and it gets weirder from there, right, ye.
Speaker 2: But it's to me, it's all I always like that
Speaker 2: like start to the story is what locked me in
Speaker 2: early on, and especially meeting soul I I'm like, I
Speaker 2: one hundred percent believe this girl.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not even a question of belief. You know.
Speaker 2: You meet her and talk to her just like she's
Speaker 2: a very straightforward person, right this clearly happened to her
Speaker 2: and she doesn't know what it is.
Speaker 3: But that's the thing that like really fucked me up
Speaker 3: about it now, because again I was like, I'm sure
Speaker 3: there's got to be a way to explain all this,
Speaker 3: But then I was trying to look deeper as to
Speaker 3: what was pulling me in despite being so like logical,
Speaker 3: when I like when I listen to things like this,
Speaker 3: and there was something I think, because we live in
Speaker 3: this like super dumbed down, like deeply disconnected world right now,
Speaker 3: like our current like world, this modern world, we're completely
Speaker 3: disconnected from like you know, the land, from each other,
Speaker 3: like our history and things like that, that to hear
Speaker 3: somebody describe these sort of paranormal phenomena or experiences in
Speaker 3: a way like sort of calls to something like that,
Speaker 3: there's something there's like there's a spirituality that we've lost
Speaker 3: on some level as human beings that even if I
Speaker 3: believe Soulvie are not hearing this person speak about these
Speaker 3: things that can't be explained, that they don't understand, is
Speaker 3: like pulling at something I think much deeper, like in
Speaker 3: the human experience that we just completely lack now, like
Speaker 3: especially because that's what colonialism does to most people, like completely,
Speaker 3: it's those things are seen as like pagan or savage
Speaker 3: or whatever.
Speaker 1: And the ritual and spirituality out of things, and it's
Speaker 1: just like, this is a materialist universe. Here are the
Speaker 1: laws that explain it. We know everything, no more mystery,
Speaker 1: right to work.
Speaker 3: Exactly, And I think there's a yearning on some level
Speaker 3: that it surely just can't be all of this just
Speaker 3: tangible shit. It on some level, even if you're religious
Speaker 3: or not that like, there is something that we feel
Speaker 3: on a deeper level that we can't quite explain. And
Speaker 3: I think that's why I really enjoy listening to the
Speaker 3: show is because even then, even if I'm like, I
Speaker 3: don't know if this actually happened, but the sensation of
Speaker 3: hearing a person sort of sincerely describe a thing, whether
Speaker 3: they're like very talented liars or just people who are
Speaker 3: really being very sincere, there's just something that is undeniable
Speaker 3: that I realize. I'm like, oh, man, like there's something
Speaker 3: about it that is like I don't know, like healing,
Speaker 3: or there's a yearning that I didn't understand, like I
Speaker 3: had deep within me, which is like trying to find
Speaker 3: sort of like these sort of threads to something like
Speaker 3: that isn't just tangible and just explainable like everything else
Speaker 3: has been.
Speaker 2: In mind, I like, I really really like that reaction,
Speaker 2: And that's actually kind of like what I hope the reaction.
Speaker 2: I hope people have to the show, or was hoping
Speaker 2: they would have. And I think it's why I like
Speaker 2: this stuff, you know, where I wasn't super into it,
Speaker 2: but I do think like when you hear some thing
Speaker 2: like that, I find it comforting in a way, like
Speaker 2: it kind of can make you feel small and like
Speaker 2: remind you that, oh, yeah, we really don't know anything still, right,
Speaker 2: and especially when like the world is crazy or your
Speaker 2: life is crazy or anything. Just things feel out of
Speaker 2: control so often in life, you know, I think there's
Speaker 2: there's an odd comfort to h hearing the most extreme
Speaker 2: version of that and being reminded like, oh yeah, like
Speaker 2: not only is the world completely out of control, like
Speaker 2: it's always been out of control, like we don't know anything,
Speaker 2: we're just like kind of powerless, you know, And that's fine.
Speaker 2: It's comforting knowing that there are these great, great mysteries
Speaker 2: that maybe we'll understand one day. But it's okay to
Speaker 2: not know because I mean, so I think I've served
Speaker 2: my life being a skeptic, like a real skeptic on
Speaker 2: supernatural things, and yet I wear specific hats or don't
Speaker 2: wear specific hats based on what like how a basketball
Speaker 2: team that I like has.
Speaker 1: Performed, which is just I think to your point about powerlessness.
Speaker 1: It's like that is the thing I am completely unable
Speaker 1: to control, and so I like invent this stupid way
Speaker 1: that I can control it and like believe it with
Speaker 1: my body and not my mind. But like fully, like
Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck, I did something wrong on the right.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, that's what's interesting too, because I remember like
Speaker 3: a lot of people to like shows like yours or
Speaker 3: other shows dealing with like paranormal phenomenas, Like they're people
Speaker 3: who so deeply want to just explain why it isn't
Speaker 3: like and it's just like and it's an unequivocal no,
Speaker 3: this is fucking nonsense, and like I get that sort
Speaker 3: of desire. But I think that's why I like I.
Speaker 3: That's what I found very interesting about listening to the episode.
Speaker 3: It's not me necessarily trying to figure out like where
Speaker 3: are the where are the holes in this story because like, sure,
Speaker 3: I can be very analytical about those kinds of things,
Speaker 3: but I think again, it's the idea of just that
Speaker 3: there is something we just can't explain and it's and sure,
Speaker 3: maybe it's manifesting these people saying like I'm experiencing X,
Speaker 3: Y or Z, but like even knowing someone is experiencing that,
Speaker 3: there's something like intoxicating about it too, And I think
Speaker 3: maybe that could just be because I've been I'm such
Speaker 3: a deep skeptic about stuff like this where I find
Speaker 3: myself not having to be like does this confirm my
Speaker 3: beliefs or does it completely blow them up? I'm like
Speaker 3: finding this middle thing, which is like, no, man, like
Speaker 3: there's something just much deeper, even if it's about like
Speaker 3: it's not maybe necessarily interdimensional beings communicating, but we've shut
Speaker 3: ourselves off to something that like I'm trying to figure
Speaker 3: out how to reconnect to and not in like a
Speaker 3: magical way, but just something that's a little bit more
Speaker 3: outside of what is you know, sort of academically described.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, And I will say this, like, well,
Speaker 2: first of all, as the host of the show and
Speaker 2: somebody who wants people to just be able to like
Speaker 2: listen and relax and like not being able to not
Speaker 2: try to disprove everything. It is obviously frustrating, like that
Speaker 2: type of person who's like wants to quickly disprove things.
Speaker 2: But I will also say that, like a lot of
Speaker 2: this stuff even if you don't like believe it all
Speaker 2: the way, like a lot of times, like I don't
Speaker 2: have a way to disprove it, and I try, right,
Speaker 2: A lot of people are comfortable disproving something by just
Speaker 2: like saying some bullshit and being okay with it not
Speaker 2: being complete.
Speaker 1: Right. A lot of the ways.
Speaker 2: People disprove these things is just like throwing out some
Speaker 2: fucking stupid shit they heard on Wikipedia or like a
Speaker 2: podcast one time and just being like, oh, it's like
Speaker 2: this effect, you know, yeah, like I heard about that
Speaker 2: one time. It's like all right, And then if you really,
Speaker 2: if you really apply it and like pick it through,
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense, Like it wouldn't hold up in court, right,
Speaker 2: Like you couldn't if you actually had to disprove it,
Speaker 2: like up to the standards of like a jury, you know,
Speaker 2: that would not work. Often times, there's all sorts of
Speaker 2: weird little things people toss around, like mold the person
Speaker 2: had like black mold in their house. Maybe maybe it
Speaker 2: was black mold in their house.
Speaker 3: That's just like, right, there's the fact that even someone
Speaker 3: is experiencing the world like that.
Speaker 1: I think it's just very Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Would still be interested, but yeah, I mean there's things
Speaker 2: like that that get tossed around as if we even
Speaker 2: fully understand those and Jack not to I'm not picking
Speaker 2: on you at all. I do this too, but like, uh,
Speaker 2: I hear a lot about people saying like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: just their unconscious playing tricks on them. It's like, well, dude,
Speaker 2: that's not even we don't even know what the unconscious
Speaker 2: mind is yet or the limitations of it. So it's
Speaker 2: like that doesn't really I'm not satisfied with that explanation ever.
Speaker 2: That gets tossed around a lot. It's like, well, we
Speaker 2: don't know the function, the complete functions of the unconscious mind,
Speaker 2: how it exists. We don't know if it's completely internal.
Speaker 2: There's people who think that it could be partly external. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that it could come from somewhere else. That
Speaker 2: opens things up, that opens the floodgates. Yeah, So it's
Speaker 2: like young believe that there was like a shared just
Speaker 2: that we like had access to that exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's kind of my interest in it is
Speaker 1: that it's so unknown and.
Speaker 3: Which is just as magical the concept of shared unconscious
Speaker 3: and then how then going about to sort of bring
Speaker 3: all that to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those things where like, uh, it's
Speaker 2: sort of like the one oh one level is being
Speaker 2: the Reddit atheist who just is like, oh, it's all fake.
Speaker 2: But when you kind of like dig deeper, you kind
Speaker 2: of like come out through the other side. At one
Speaker 2: point you could kind of like keep digging through to
Speaker 2: the other side over and over again with this stuff,
Speaker 2: which is interesting. But yeah, like unconscious stuff, I mean
Speaker 2: even bringing it back to the Wuiji board, it's like
Speaker 2: if it is everybody's unconscious, like they're the movement on
Speaker 2: the plan chet kind of like reaching this flow state
Speaker 2: like that is actually what spiritualists would say is the
Speaker 2: key to unlocking it, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The people who create like basically popularize the weedge aboard
Speaker 2: and like they don't actually the spiritualists don't use that anymore.
Speaker 2: But like that era, that era of time is like
Speaker 2: what birth this like the talking board. But yeah, those
Speaker 2: people that believe at one hundred percent would say that
Speaker 2: that is the key, like the group working together and
Speaker 2: that shared exactly.
Speaker 1: I think it's so powerful and interesting. Yeah, it's it's cool.
Speaker 2: I mean the longer you think about it, the more.
Speaker 1: You scratch your head with this stuff. Yeah. Two of
Speaker 1: the characters like predict using Luigi like predict the day,
Speaker 1: the exact day that like when or the you know,
Speaker 1: Zozo predicts the exact day that their boyfriends are both
Speaker 1: going to break up with them, And I thought that
Speaker 1: was funny, so wild.
Speaker 2: I forgot this either way, it's so interesting. I forget
Speaker 2: if it made it into the episode or not. But
Speaker 2: when she told me that, I was like, do you
Speaker 2: think there's a chance that you guys just broke up
Speaker 2: with you because you were addicted to playing with.
Speaker 1: The right We're so obsessed with it, But like that
Speaker 1: is what I think. It's like a drug where you're
Speaker 1: like connecting with this thing in a way it is
Speaker 1: not available to you in any other way. So like
Speaker 1: what whether it's something outside or inside, I think it's
Speaker 1: you know, powerful and interesting. I'm way more powerful than
Speaker 1: anybody is anyone who's doing it, like being like it's
Speaker 1: just their unconscious mind making playing tricks. On them that yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not dismissive like that actually makes it more interesting
Speaker 1: to me, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But with the Them series, people want clean answers.
Speaker 2: There's a certain type of person that would want like
Speaker 2: a clear answer to that, and they go looking for it.
Speaker 2: I wanted to disprove that one I'm not disproven. I
Speaker 2: thought I was going to that confident I would find something.
Speaker 2: I would like turn over enough stones that I would
Speaker 2: find clue, right like, but I have not really even
Speaker 2: formed a theory in my mind that like a hypothetical
Speaker 2: way to disprove it all. I'm just kind of lost,
Speaker 2: which is so spooky to me. And uh, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know, that's what I mean, say, with the people
Speaker 2: in it, they don't really know what it is.
Speaker 3: Whether I think that's why I like even just like
Speaker 3: I would have when I was listening to them, like
Speaker 3: I can't wait to hear what the answer is. But
Speaker 3: then again, as again, like the sensation of listening to
Speaker 3: it isn't necessarily that I'm thinking of it, like logically,
Speaker 3: it's more I'm I think it's because because I'm skeptical
Speaker 3: that part of that, like there's a certain cynicism that
Speaker 3: comes along with that, not that it's like bad or anything,
Speaker 3: but this helped thaw that a bit and was just
Speaker 3: maybe it's just for pure entertainment or pleasure that I
Speaker 3: could just go, well, we don't know everything, and that's
Speaker 3: interesting and I like it and I'll keep it there.
Speaker 3: It's not I'm not going up calling my mom and
Speaker 3: be like, yo, mom, we got to get right with
Speaker 3: these interdimensional beings. I don't know if you hear the
Speaker 3: clicking sounds I'm making with my mouth, And I think that.
Speaker 1: Sort of uncanny thing you're talking about of like the
Speaker 1: experience of listening to the show is like the we
Speaker 1: used to only learn and pass information on via the
Speaker 1: oral tradition, and like that is learning like hearing things
Speaker 1: as people experience them through their experience, and like that's
Speaker 1: what I think is so powerful about the show is
Speaker 1: that like it's reconnecting you with like that way of
Speaker 1: experiencing these things that you know, we we were just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but written tradition better, and it's like, no, you're cutting
Speaker 1: out a whole, very compelling way of learning about human experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think like to kind of close out
Speaker 2: the whole skepticism thing, you know, people who believe that
Speaker 2: there is explanations for everything. It's just we simply don't.
Speaker 2: I would be I would love to know if we
Speaker 2: did have an explanation, Like, let's just say for ghosts.
Speaker 2: Like people, there are people who legitimately believe that, like
Speaker 2: ghosts have been disproved and like like whether it's infrasound
Speaker 2: or you know, mold poisoning or something. There are people
Speaker 2: who think that's like case closed, this is what it is.
Speaker 2: It's just simply not the case. And what I always
Speaker 2: say in terms of that is like, if there really
Speaker 2: was some way to make a person see a ghost,
Speaker 2: I would love to know. I would love to patent that.
Speaker 2: Should you imagine the haunted house you could do? Can
Speaker 2: you imagine the bag from the Universal Studios contract? If
Speaker 2: I figured out, like there's a sound frequency I could
Speaker 2: play to like vibrate somebody's brain in a way that
Speaker 2: they see a ghost. All right, I'm patenting that you
Speaker 2: won't you won't have the podcast again, bro, I'll be James.
Speaker 1: Raytheon would be knocking at your door before Universal Studio. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break, we'll come back. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back. Sure, and we're back, We're and real quick,
Speaker 1: it is the week of Halloween. I am just curious
Speaker 1: that's somebody who you know, you've connected with all these Oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, we were talking about stupid names. I
Speaker 1: did just want to say pazuzu, which is like an
Speaker 1: ancient It sounds like a gen Z slang for possessed.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a gen Z person being like I
Speaker 1: got pazzuz Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's like people think that is always like
Speaker 2: maybe that means yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or like close to the movie BJ's Brewer, like, hey,
Speaker 3: have you guys had our PiZZ before for dessert?
Speaker 1: It's called a pazzuki in the day. But I do
Speaker 1: feel like Halloween is a time when us culture, like
Speaker 1: this version of the zeitgeist, gets to devote energy toward
Speaker 1: living with that like different very you know, allowing those
Speaker 1: energies to kind of come out a little bit. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like there's the skeptical thing that's like there's
Speaker 1: just a chance to get drunk or dress up or whatever.
Speaker 1: But like, first of all, just connecting with the unconscious
Speaker 1: through mask play is like a very interesting form of therapy,
Speaker 1: and you know a thing that I think there are
Speaker 1: interesting ways to take that what the skeptical people are
Speaker 1: talking about and be like that that's actually really interesting
Speaker 1: that just by wearing a mask, you like change how
Speaker 1: you experienced reality in such a way that you like
Speaker 1: almost become a different person. But I'm just curious as
Speaker 1: somebody who has experienced all these stories and like done
Speaker 1: all this reporting, Like what are your thoughts on Halloween? Like,
Speaker 1: on do you think there are any icons of Halloween
Speaker 1: they are like particularly like powerful sort of pop cultural
Speaker 1: wore cruxes, you know what I mean, Like.
Speaker 2: Uhh, I mean no, Personally, I mean like I am
Speaker 2: just kind of like I think it's just because my work,
Speaker 2: so I'm so desensitized, you know. I think it's like
Speaker 2: the way doctors like don't get freaked out by blood
Speaker 2: at a certain point or bodies or you know, when
Speaker 2: you like don't want to get naked in front of
Speaker 2: your doctor for a physical and your friends like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's just skinned to them, Like they don't they even
Speaker 2: like see you as naked. They don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2: Like I think like I've developed that kind of like
Speaker 2: callousness towards this material, like it doesn't scare me anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not trying to sound like a badass or whatever.
Speaker 1: But like, so, what do you do like Halloween?
Speaker 2: You just be just being like, hey, none of this matters.
Speaker 2: I know I should probably this is like not a
Speaker 2: fun answer. I should have just lied and uh told
Speaker 2: you that I'm the biggest Halloween fan or whatever. But no,
Speaker 2: it's become you know, it's interesting. I love Halloween. I
Speaker 2: always have loved Halloween, but now I'm during this month,
Speaker 2: I'm so focused on like making the episodes the best
Speaker 2: they can that like, I don't have a costume, Like
Speaker 2: I don't really have any major plans. This is my
Speaker 2: busy month now. Yeah, I will go on as you
Speaker 2: for Halloween.
Speaker 1: You're an icon of oh cult ship.
Speaker 2: Boring costume though or in costume, But I will say, uh,
Speaker 2: in terms of iconography, I mean the Wija board scares me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that's like a weird thing. I I and
Speaker 2: a lot you know people put it. You know, there's
Speaker 2: like horror fans who like put them on their wall
Speaker 2: or whatever like that kind of freak. I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even keep one in my house. I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna be honest with you. That type of stuff. I
Speaker 2: just like wouldn't do it. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Wait, what's a list of things you wouldn't you wouldn't
Speaker 3: keep in your house based on everything you've encountered. Now,
Speaker 3: so ouiji board, don't bring that, not don't leave that here?
Speaker 3: Are good though, right, that's just a Hasbro toy.
Speaker 1: That's fine. Most of the answers are nonsense.
Speaker 2: I don't know, like I think, I think everybody's different.
Speaker 2: I'll just say that everybody's different, and like if something
Speaker 2: freaks you out or freaks me out or unsettles me,
Speaker 2: like I wouldn't keep it in my house, if that
Speaker 2: makes sense. Like some I host the show, so I
Speaker 2: I'm given stuff, I get stuff. There's like there's things
Speaker 2: that just kind of like unsettle me. Like I I
Speaker 2: think I was like designing merch or something. So I
Speaker 2: went to one of those like brew Harria stores or
Speaker 2: whatever that you see in La where it's like they
Speaker 2: sell all the witchcraft stuff and they sell like weird
Speaker 2: Jesus statues and like dragons, and you could.
Speaker 1: Buy like a love spell.
Speaker 2: I remember buying like all the weird like love spells
Speaker 2: or like the colone that you spray and can make
Speaker 2: you rich. There are a couple of those that kind
Speaker 2: of like freaked me out, just like the vibes, So
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: I got rid of that a little too powerful. I
Speaker 1: feel like.
Speaker 2: That's sort of my guidelines, is like if it's something
Speaker 2: that's you know, I look at it as more like
Speaker 2: personal but objectively. I don't know if there's like any
Speaker 2: objective things that I think.
Speaker 1: No, I mean that they're bad. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's what's so interesting about like the paranormal
Speaker 3: is that it it speaks to everyone differently, Like whereas
Speaker 3: like any ghosts right here, I'm like, yeah, whatever, and
Speaker 3: then someone's like inter dimensional being how I'm like, uh huh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think intentions matter a lot. I know my answer
Speaker 2: kind of sounds like a cop out or some shit.
Speaker 2: I'm just like making up off the fly. But I
Speaker 2: think intentions do matter, just based on like what I
Speaker 2: hear on the show. I think like your own like
Speaker 2: vibes for backup lack of a better word, have like
Speaker 2: a big play on things, you know, So if it's
Speaker 2: if it's impacting you, it might impact your home, you know,
Speaker 2: and vice versa. Yeah, and like people, there's there's too
Speaker 2: long of a story. But somebody I know had a
Speaker 2: cursed family ring, like multi generational curse, and like things
Speaker 2: were happening related to the ring. It was an engagement
Speaker 2: ring that made them think it was still cursed. And
Speaker 2: she came to me asking like, hey, do anybody that
Speaker 2: could uncurse the ring? And I was like, no, I
Speaker 2: do not, I do not know.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Who are headed to Mount Doom right now? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah, give them, give them some some
Speaker 2: bread and cheese and they could take it, take it
Speaker 2: along with them, two for one.
Speaker 1: But this was a friend.
Speaker 2: Her name's Rosie by the way, she's been on the show.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean when somebody she was serious and I
Speaker 2: wanted to give a serious answer, and I didn't have
Speaker 2: an answer for her. But what I actually believed in
Speaker 2: when I told her was I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: obviously your research around and find somebody to do this,
Speaker 2: but you should go with like whatever you think would
Speaker 2: uncurse it, right, Like, if you think that's a Catholic priest,
Speaker 2: you should go to a Catholic priest. If you think
Speaker 2: it's going to be some spooky which lady in the valley,
Speaker 2: go there, right if you want a vale Yeah, like
Speaker 2: a monk whatever, if you think you should sage it,
Speaker 2: do that, Like I think whatever you believe the most
Speaker 2: you know, right right right, That's.
Speaker 1: The most powerful is like your own intent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're if you're going into it thinking like
Speaker 2: this is not going to work. I think it's not
Speaker 2: gonna work.
Speaker 1: See Jack, that's why you wear the Sixers hat man.
Speaker 1: That's right, and it works every time. That's why they're
Speaker 1: so good. Jack Wagner, is such a pleasure having you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on at this spookiest time of
Speaker 1: year when you're working on making the show, making amazing
Speaker 1: episodes of the shows. Where can people find you and
Speaker 1: follow you?
Speaker 2: Other World is the name of the show. We are
Speaker 2: available anywhere you get your podcast. I suppose recently started
Speaker 2: uploading episodes to YouTube finally, So actually, if you are
Speaker 2: listening right now, would actually be very helpful if you
Speaker 2: went and subscribed to the YouTube, which I think is
Speaker 2: called Other World Pod on YouTube. But just find it.
Speaker 2: We've had a cool visualizer made for it, so dope.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's where you can find me.
Speaker 1: Their work of media that you've been able to come
Speaker 1: up with, that you've been enjoying. Oh fuck, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I have a good answer for this. Is
Speaker 1: there a horror movie that you enjoy particularly?
Speaker 2: I haven't seen a good one this year. I've I'm
Speaker 2: so lacking in movies. The last TV show I watched
Speaker 2: was The Pit.
Speaker 1: Do you guys watch that? Yeah? Yeah, great TV? Yeah,
Speaker 1: wullet Proof. I uh we started watching it, but uh
Speaker 1: my wife is a physician, and it was just like, no,
Speaker 1: just work for her. Yeah, she's just like this is
Speaker 1: like this, I might have to go back and watch er. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've never seen it. Yeah, that's that's what I've heard
Speaker 1: that people like who completed were just like I need
Speaker 1: more of this and went back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't. That can be my recommendation. I can't
Speaker 2: recommend an any winning show everybody.
Speaker 1: That's fine. What else?
Speaker 2: What do people normally recommend that it's we've had The
Speaker 2: Pit recommended before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people just say like what they're literally watching right now,
Speaker 3: even if it's not interesting, just kind of giving people
Speaker 3: a glimpse into like whatever media they're consuming right now.
Speaker 1: But again, totally up to you.
Speaker 2: I'm consuming, dude, the show consumes me sadly. So I'm
Speaker 2: gonna plug my own show all the world, and I'll
Speaker 2: plug your show. Yeah, people out there and the Dodgers
Speaker 2: and the Dodgers, how about them? Miles Where can people
Speaker 2: find you as their working media you've been enjoying?
Speaker 3: Yeah, find me everywhere at miles of Gray. Catch me
Speaker 3: talking about I need a fan on four to twenty
Speaker 3: day Fiance cashm rooting for the Dodgers, just within earshot.
Speaker 1: Of Dodger Stadium, screaming like a fucking demon.
Speaker 3: And let's see a post I like actually from blue
Speaker 3: Sky at Internet, hippot at skuy at social posted They're
Speaker 3: going to change the clocks this weekend and the president
Speaker 3: is powerless to stop it because he's weak and a loser.
Speaker 1: That's what they're saying, sir, that is a Blue Sky post.
Speaker 1: I've ever heard one. Let's see I like to tweet
Speaker 1: from Eli Crumbendahl, who tweeted, Unfortunately, my nervous system can't
Speaker 1: tell the difference between needing to answer some emails and
Speaker 1: being wanted for murder. That is how I experienced my life.
Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter at jack underscorel Brian
Speaker 1: jack ob One on blue Sky. You can find us
Speaker 1: on Twitter and blue Sky at Daily zeikeistre ad The
Speaker 1: Daily Zeikeist on Instagram. You can go to the description
Speaker 1: of this episode wherever you're listening to it, and they're
Speaker 1: at the bottom, you will find the footnote foot there's
Speaker 1: where we link off to the information that we talked
Speaker 1: about in today's episode. We also link off to a
Speaker 1: song that we think you might enjoy, because is there
Speaker 1: a song that you think that people might enjoy? Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: just more.
Speaker 3: Look, I'm playing Ghost of Yote and my favorite thing
Speaker 3: right now to dud just instrumental hip hop. I play
Speaker 3: on my spot built in Spotify, So I changed the
Speaker 3: soundtrack so it's kind of like Samurai Champlou.
Speaker 1: But I've been listening to the mad.
Speaker 3: Lib Blue Note record album that he did Shades of
Speaker 3: Blue mad Lib Invades Blue Note h and I just
Speaker 3: want to go out on a track just a mad
Speaker 3: Lib is like one of the best sample based producers
Speaker 3: out there.
Speaker 1: This one's called Distant Land by mad Lib. All right,
Speaker 1: we will link off to that in the footnote. For
Speaker 1: Daily is the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit Yeah Heart Radio ap Apple podcast.
Speaker 1: Wherever you listen to your favorite shows, that's going to
Speaker 1: do it for us. This morning, we're back this afternoon
Speaker 1: to tell you what is trending, and we will talk
Speaker 1: to you all then, Bye bye.
Speaker 3: The Daily Zeit Guys is executive produced by Catherine Long,
Speaker 3: co produced by Bay Wang.
Speaker 1: Co produced by Victor Wright, co written by J. M mcnapp,
Speaker 1: Edited and engineered by Justin Conner m