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Speaker 1: I remember it being very surreal and asking myself several

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Speaker 1: times in the course of the meeting, is this really happening?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 3: There are a couple of things that we should point

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Speaker 3: out here. Thirty years is a long time. Three decades

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Speaker 3: is a long time, and so I think we have

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Speaker 3: most of the details of what happened and what was said,

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Speaker 3: or at least the area it was said, maybe either

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Speaker 3: a little bit out of order because I didn't write

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Speaker 3: anything down that day I went back to work, but

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Speaker 3: I do know that we did ask for some identification,

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Speaker 3: and what was so weird about the meeting? We asked

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Speaker 3: for identification and we get told if the deal comes together,

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Speaker 3: then you'll get it. And I remember thinking that's just

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Speaker 3: so crazy. How can we make a deal with somebody

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Speaker 3: that won't tell us who they are? But it just

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Speaker 3: made no sense. And we went back and forth on

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Speaker 3: that enough that I think you and I probably had

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Speaker 3: one of those knowing glances exchanged where we thought, Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's just go with it. The guy's not going to

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Speaker 3: tell us right now. I said something else, by the way,

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Speaker 3: early on in the meeting that I thought was odd,

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Speaker 3: and maybe it was JC, but somebody said that they

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Speaker 3: had done some preliminary background checks on it, which was

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Speaker 3: so strange, but they implied that they were preliminary and

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Speaker 3: that the real thing would happen if we agreed to

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Speaker 3: make a deal. They were really going to look into us,

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Speaker 3: which also is deeply uncomfortable, saying a guy that won't

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Speaker 3: tell you his name is going to do a serious

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Speaker 3: background check on you. Listen at that point, but you're

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Speaker 3: probably thinking, what about the Harrington story. I'm thinking about

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Speaker 3: if you do a background checker, you got to call

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Speaker 3: everybody I went to college with. That's not going to

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Speaker 3: be a good look for me. And in fact, I

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Speaker 3: remember the guy that was called the Captain even act

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Speaker 3: of like, yeah, you probably won't pass that. He was

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Speaker 3: just so diffident, he was just so snarky. We were

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Speaker 3: told by this Captain character, don't ask us any more

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Speaker 3: about dates or places. That's not what this meeting is about.

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Speaker 3: And that happened. And we also brought up the idea

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Speaker 3: because again, if you're going to say you've got a

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Speaker 3: lot of things right, we're thinking about jfk Ann Roswell.

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Speaker 3: So we query them about that relationship between these two things.

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Speaker 3: And as I was thinking about this last week prepping

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Speaker 3: for this brand, I remembered very clearly that this guy

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Speaker 3: cut us off and he said two words, not today.

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Speaker 3: Let me give you some pro arguments for taking a

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Speaker 3: deal with these guys. At the time, we thought access

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Speaker 3: obviously could give us more authenticity for the show. We

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Speaker 3: were idealistic. Potentially we thought, wow, if this actually is

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Speaker 3: on the level, we might actually help facilitate real disclosure,

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Speaker 3: which was positive. And also given that, as we talked

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Speaker 3: about in a previous episode, we started the whole cover

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Speaker 3: of fiction thing. The idea that somebody would want to

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Speaker 3: come to us with a desire to use cover of

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Speaker 3: fiction wasn't as unreasonable as you might think. But I

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Speaker 3: think the main argument pro was we'll finally get to

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Speaker 3: know what's really going on, We'll get the truth. That

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Speaker 3: was seemed to be the promise.

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Speaker 1: I think the negatives were primarily that it felt like

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Speaker 1: we would be losing control of the narrative. At what

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Speaker 1: I mean by that is we had a show, we

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Speaker 1: had a vision for the show. We had the network

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Speaker 1: on board, the studio on board, we had stories broken,

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Speaker 1: scripts written, and these guys being put in charge they

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Speaker 1: had certainly the captain made it quite clear that if

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Speaker 1: we were in business with him, he was going to

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Speaker 1: tell us what was going to happen. He was going

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Speaker 1: to be the showrunner in some sense of the word.

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Speaker 1: And I think that was terrifying, that sense that loss

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Speaker 1: of control. I think another thing that we talked about

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Speaker 1: and we had to take seriously was, Okay, these guys

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Speaker 1: are saying this is the truth. They're saying they're the heroes, right,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to be on their side and disclose

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Speaker 1: to the people. Again, they were giving us the pitch

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Speaker 1: of us being low and guard and dark skies, let's

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Speaker 1: get the truth out to the people. So that was enticing,

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Speaker 1: But we also did consider, but what if all of

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Speaker 1: this is a syop? What if all of this is lie?

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Speaker 1: What if all of this is disinformation? And so that

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Speaker 1: idea that we could be end up taking a deal,

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Speaker 1: lose control of the show, and only to be being

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Speaker 1: used as part of a disinformation campaign was pretty disgusting.

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Speaker 3: I'm Bryce Sable. Have you ever wondered if there's a

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Speaker 3: secret connection between Hollywood and UFOs? And I'm Brent Friedman.

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Speaker 4: You are listening to sound, light and frequency.

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Speaker 3: All right. What we're going to be talking about today

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Speaker 3: is the second beat, if you will, of what happened

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Speaker 3: after JC crashed the Dark Sky's premiere party. And I

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Speaker 3: know that some people think, but you don't have to

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Speaker 3: refresh our memories on that. We got it. We've listened

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Speaker 3: to your previous episodes. But the thing is so many

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Speaker 3: new people are coming to this podcast that a little

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Speaker 3: bit of refreshment has to happen just to set the stage.

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Speaker 3: So here's the least I feel like you need to

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Speaker 3: know about this. We're talking about the events that happened

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Speaker 3: during the NBC series Dark Skies that we created. And

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Speaker 3: in our very first episode of this podcast, we told

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Speaker 3: you the story about a guy named JC who crashed

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Speaker 3: our premiere party, told us he'd seen the series, said

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Speaker 3: he was from the Office of Naval Intelligence and that

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Speaker 3: we did things pretty well and they wanted to make

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Speaker 3: a deal with us. That's your backstory. Do I need

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Speaker 3: any more?

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Speaker 2: Is that?

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Speaker 3: Okay, there's a little thing called the formula thrown in there,

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Speaker 3: but that's not relevant right now. Yeah, it is relevant

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Speaker 3: in that people would say, Okay, let's see the formula,

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Speaker 3: which we are getting to. We even have a date

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Speaker 3: for it. We're going to be putting it out there

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Speaker 3: on the literal thirtieth anniversary episode of this September seventeenth,

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenty six you will see the formula and

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Speaker 3: hear our panel talk about it. But the other thing

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Speaker 3: we're going to promise you is we are going to

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Speaker 3: tell you what the deal was, what we thought about it,

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Speaker 3: and what action we took about it. So all right,

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Speaker 3: I guess what you could say is what seemed like

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Speaker 3: a bizarre one night encounter suddenly became this organized, deliberate,

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Speaker 3: and harder to dismiss storyline. Brett, I don't know how

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Speaker 3: else to say it, because we basically saw JC go

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Speaker 3: off into the shadows at that dark Sky's party, and

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Speaker 3: we went to the office two days later, which was

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Speaker 3: our warehouse in North Hollywood. And I don't even remember

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Speaker 3: if we've told this before, Stop me if I had,

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Speaker 3: But this production facility was actually a warehouse in North

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Speaker 3: Hollywood that had been a place dedicated to making porn movies.

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Speaker 3: Did we ever say that.

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Speaker 1: We haven't said that, but yes, and I remember that

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Speaker 1: we discovered that when there was a really interesting little

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Speaker 1: treasure trove of stuff in the office bathroom.

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Speaker 3: You used, Okay, all right, this at least starts with

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Speaker 3: a little bit of humor and degradation. So I was

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Speaker 3: an executive producer of the show, and offices were given

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Speaker 3: and I got this nice, big office, and I was

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Speaker 3: pretty happy with it, and had worked there several weeks.

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Speaker 3: We did know that it had been used for making

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Speaker 3: porn movies, but there was really no reason to know

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Speaker 3: that other than somebody had told us when they rented

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Speaker 3: it to us. And on the way to the bath

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Speaker 3: through them there were a number of what would you

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Speaker 3: call it, just cabinets, cabinets, that's the word cabinet up above.

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Speaker 3: So in fact, nobody had ever looked in them because

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Speaker 3: they were so high up. And I didn't have a

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Speaker 3: ladder or anything, and I had other things to do,

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Speaker 3: as did you. And I remember one day one of

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Speaker 3: our assistants had a ladder and I said, bring that

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Speaker 3: in here, let's see whatever. And we opened it up

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Speaker 3: and Brent there were hundreds of the most graphic porn

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Speaker 3: magazines I've ever seen, not with titles like Playboy and

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Speaker 3: things like that. Now, those are nice. These were pretty

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Speaker 3: radical porn magazines. And I said to the assistant, oh man,

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Speaker 3: you got to get these out of here, right, So

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Speaker 3: make these disappear as I believed the mandate that he

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Speaker 3: was given. And later that afternoon, somebody came and said,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, have you seen what's out by the

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Speaker 3: garbage cans? And apparently our assistant had left them, just

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Speaker 3: left them out there, and when people said what are these,

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Speaker 3: he said, They're from Bryce's office office. Yeah, so that

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Speaker 3: was the office that a lot of this stuff went

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Speaker 3: down in, which gives it a little bit of a

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Speaker 3: humorous angle. But the point is we went to that office,

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Speaker 3: our production facility the monday after this Dark Sky's party

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Speaker 3: where this JC character had shown up, and I know

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Speaker 3: that we had received the formula that was written on

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Speaker 3: the back of a bank envelope, and that's the thing

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Speaker 3: we'll be talking about in future episodes, or at least

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Speaker 3: showing people. And we went in with it and we

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Speaker 3: showed it to certain people anyway, So this was strange. However,

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Speaker 3: we had to keep moving on with our lives, right,

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Speaker 3: there's a show to produce. We had obviously just debuted.

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Speaker 3: All eyes were honest, the network, the studio, everybody's looking

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Speaker 3: at ratings and discussing whether we were had the right thing,

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Speaker 3: and we were shooting in our next episode Up was

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Speaker 3: about Roswell and JFK in the aftermath of the assassination,

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Speaker 3: where literally our main character John Longard goes to Dallas,

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Speaker 3: Texas and talks to Jesse Marcel Roswell. Yeah wow, I know.

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Speaker 1: Crazy, so against all of that, basically business as usual

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Speaker 1: on a primetime TV series. I was getting messages from

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Speaker 1: my assistant Adam saying JC called.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: He had given us his card at the party and

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Speaker 1: if you remember, it said simply J dot C dot

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Speaker 1: with a three to one zero number.

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Speaker 3: We did not call him.

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Speaker 1: We had other things to do. I don't think we'd

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Speaker 1: made a decision one way or another what we wanted

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Speaker 1: to do, but we certainly weren't taking action upon it.

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Speaker 1: But he was quite aggressive after the party in following

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Speaker 1: up several times, and at some point, probably by the

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Speaker 1: third or fourth time, I got a message that JC

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Speaker 1: was calling from Adam. I went and took the call,

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Speaker 1: and he made some sort of quip about your hard

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Speaker 1: man to get on the phone or something along those lines,

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Speaker 1: but was still pretty friendly and said, Hey, we want

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Speaker 1: to follow up, and I hope you guys had some

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Speaker 1: time to think about it, and we'd love to have

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Speaker 1: another meeting, and I am being asked to bring a

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Speaker 1: superior to this next meet so we can get into

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Speaker 1: a little bit more details and see if we can

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Speaker 1: close this thing up. And I thought, okay, but we're busy,

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Speaker 1: and he said, okay, so we're going to be there

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Speaker 1: tomorrow at three o'clock and we'll see you.

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Speaker 3: Then I was like hold on.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, it was like click, and next

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Speaker 1: thing I knew he was coming to the office. And

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Speaker 1: I remember with a little dread, having to come and

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Speaker 1: tell you, Oh, I just made a meeting with JC

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Speaker 1: and his superior to talk further about the deal, and.

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Speaker 3: How are you here to tell you? And I think

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Speaker 3: we both felt the same way. The pressure of doing

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Speaker 3: a television series, especially in the days right after your premiere,

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Speaker 3: is ungodly. What people have to understand is not only

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Speaker 3: do you have a show on the air, you have

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Speaker 3: shows that are still being written. You have shows that

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Speaker 3: are going into pre production. You have a show in production,

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Speaker 3: you have a first cut of something that needs to

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Speaker 3: be looked at. You have a show that needs to

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Speaker 3: air in ten days or something. So you just have

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Speaker 3: so many things going on. I can't tell you that

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Speaker 3: I wasn't interested. I'm not going to say I didn't

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Speaker 3: want to meet with the guy. I was curious. First

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Speaker 3: of all, the most real thing about him coming to

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Speaker 3: our party is he had actually seen our pilot, So yeah,

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Speaker 3: you kind of wanted to know more, just as a

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Speaker 3: human being who's got curiosity, and me being a guy

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Speaker 3: that came out of journalism, I was like, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: want to take this guy's assessment. So listen, you and

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Speaker 3: I were and are both veteran writers who've gone to

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Speaker 3: our share of pitches, and we've been exposed to egos

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Speaker 3: like you can't believe in strange Hollywood personalities. All of

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Speaker 3: that is certainly true, but this was a meeting unlike

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Speaker 3: anything I've had.

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Speaker 1: I know, we were trying to figure out how do

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Speaker 1: you prepare for this? And ultimately, I think all we

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Speaker 1: came up with was, look, let's make an agreement between

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Speaker 1: the two of us. We're not going to commit to

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Speaker 1: anything in the room. We're going to hear them out.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to say yes or no to the deal.

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Speaker 1: Whatever happens, We're just going to hear them out.

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Speaker 3: And that was it.

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Speaker 1: And I think that was, aside from a lot of

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Speaker 1: angst and probably not a good night's sleep for on

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Speaker 1: either of our parts. That was about all the preparation

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Speaker 1: we could really do for that meeting. So let's set

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Speaker 1: the stage physically for this thing. So aside from the

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Speaker 1: colorful detail of cabinets full of porn magazines, next to

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Speaker 1: that office was a conference room. And this conference room,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of them, it was down a hallway,

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Speaker 1: but it was adjacent to my office and frankly just

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Speaker 1: around the corner from yours. You and I were very

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Speaker 1: close together, and it had a big, clear window, and

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Speaker 1: so we knew two things. We knew that everyone would

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Speaker 1: be able to see that we were meeting with somebody,

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Speaker 1: so if something really untoward was happening, people would see

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Speaker 1: it totally.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yeah. But we also knew that we had security

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Speaker 3: at the production offices, and so we were able to

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Speaker 3: tell our security guys, Hey, some people say they're coming

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Speaker 3: in this afternoon. We'd like you to pay extra special

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Speaker 3: attention and stand menacingly outside the conference room if at

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Speaker 3: all possible. So they did, and these guys showed up

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Speaker 3: promptly on time. JC and I guess we have to

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Speaker 3: discuss what the other guy looked like. I'll let you

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Speaker 3: take a crack at.

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Speaker 1: That so as a refresher, or if you're new to sound,

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Speaker 1: light and frequency. JC himself was we are saying around thirty.

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Speaker 1: He looked slightly handsome. He looked like a cross between

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Speaker 1: a frat boy and a young military man, and very

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Speaker 1: pleasant in his demeanor. The same cannot be said for

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Speaker 1: the person that we will now refer to as the captain.

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Speaker 1: The captain came in all badass. He had the demeanor

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Speaker 1: of a drill sergeant, and we were the grunts and

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Speaker 1: he came in. He was much more physically imposing than JC.

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Speaker 1: He had on if I remember a Navy bomber jacket

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Speaker 1: with all sorts of insignias and patches and things, but

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Speaker 1: I think just casual pants. He wasn't in full uniform,

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Speaker 1: I guess is what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: I had jeans on, because one detail I remember is

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Speaker 3: he wore boots, and I had forgotten this detail. But

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Speaker 3: they weren't boots that were scuffed up with cowdong or anything.

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Speaker 3: They seemed to be lightly dusted with sand or something.

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Speaker 3: I just remember. They weren't cleanly polished. They were sandy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, had the real feel of an off duty He

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Speaker 1: came in and there wasn't any real chit chat. It

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Speaker 1: was we got right down to business. And the one

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Speaker 1: thing I want to frame this with is the whole meeting,

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Speaker 1: from my point of view, had a good cop bad

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Speaker 1: cop quality to it. Clearly, JC, who was the one

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Speaker 1: that first made contact with us, was the good cop,

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Speaker 1: and he was the one who was always trying to

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Speaker 1: lighten the situation throughout this meeting or get it back

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Speaker 1: on track, whereas the Captain clearly embraced the bad cop

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Speaker 1: role in many ways which will lay out.

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Speaker 3: People have asked, who were these guys? What were their names?

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Speaker 3: Did you see their idea or whatever? We did ask

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Speaker 3: for their names this time. I think we were both

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Speaker 3: taken aback at the party and probably not thinking with

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Speaker 3: all our critical faculties, but we had a little time

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Speaker 3: and forewarning about this one. The one detail I wanted

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Speaker 3: to just add to that is I don't know that

301
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Speaker 3: we actually in the meeting called them the captain. I

302
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Speaker 3: think was introduced as the captain and we never called

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Speaker 3: them by anything. But I do remember thinking very strongly

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Speaker 3: that he reminded me of the Navy seal. He looked

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Speaker 3: like what you'd expect whereas JC was slight, not a

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Speaker 3: whimp or anything like that, but a normal guy.

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Speaker 1: If I had to assess them, I'd say that JC

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Speaker 1: gave off intelligence officer vibes and the captain was clearly

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Speaker 1: a military man.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, keep those two things in mind, folks, because what

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Speaker 3: we're about to tell you is what went on in

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Speaker 3: this meeting that in my remembrance about an hour and

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Speaker 3: a half. Does that sound about right to you? Yes,

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Speaker 3: And it went by rather quickly. I remember it being

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Speaker 3: very surreal and asking myself several times in the course

316
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Speaker 3: of the meeting, is this really happening? Now, there are

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Speaker 3: a couple of things that we should point out here.

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Speaker 3: Thirty years is a long time. Three decades is a

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Speaker 3: long time, and so I think we have most of

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Speaker 3: the details of what happened and what was said, or

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Speaker 3: at least the area it was said. Maybe either a

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Speaker 3: little bit out of order because I didn't write anything

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Speaker 3: down that day I went back to work, but I

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Speaker 3: do know that we'd did ask for some identification, and

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Speaker 3: this was what was so weird about the meeting. We

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Speaker 3: asked for identification, and we get told if the deal

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Speaker 3: comes together, then you'll get it. And I remember thinking

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Speaker 3: that's just so crazy. How can we make a deal

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Speaker 3: with somebody that won't tell us who they are. It

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Speaker 3: just made no sense. And we went back and forth

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Speaker 3: on that enough that I think you and I probably

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Speaker 3: had one of those knowing glances exchanged where we thought, Okay,

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Speaker 3: let's just go with it. The guy's not going to

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Speaker 3: tell us right now. He said something else, by the way,

335
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Speaker 3: early on in the meeting that I thought was odd,

336
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Speaker 3: and maybe it was JC, but somebody said that they

337
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 3: had done some preliminary background checks on it, which was

338
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Speaker 3: so strange. But they implied that they were preliminary and

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Speaker 3: that the real thing would happen if we agreed to

340
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Speaker 3: make a deal. They were really going to look into us,

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Speaker 3: which also is deeply uncomfortable, saying a guy that won't

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Speaker 3: tell you his name is going to do a serious

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Speaker 3: background check on you. Listen at that point, probably thinking

344
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Speaker 3: what about the Harrington story. I'm thinking about if you

345
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Speaker 3: do a background checker, you've got to call everybody I

346
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 3: went to college with. That's not going to be a

347
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Speaker 3: good look for me. And in fact, I remember the

348
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Speaker 3: guy that was called the Captain even acted like, yeah,

349
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Speaker 3: you probably won't pass that. He was just so diffident.

350
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Speaker 3: He was just so snarky.

351
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Speaker 1: He did give off this energy of why do I

352
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Speaker 1: have to be here? I felt like JC and he

353
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Speaker 1: were told go back and have a meeting with these

354
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Speaker 1: guys and figure out if they're for if there were

355
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Speaker 1: going to do this or not. And the Captain probably

356
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 1: rolled his eyes and said you could just tell he

357
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Speaker 1: did not respect Hollywood. He didn't want to be there,

358
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Speaker 1: and he had very little confidence in us.

359
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Speaker 3: It seemed to be whereas JAC seemed like he was there,

360
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Speaker 3: but he was clearly outranked. So as we get into this,

361
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 3: there were questions that were asked, etc. But they weren't

362
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Speaker 3: answered by j C first ever. It was either the

363
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 3: captain either said something or he dismissed it, and then

364
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 3: JAC said something, but let's throw something of subst's out there,

365
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,000
Speaker 3: I believe. In the late eighties, there was a TV

366
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 3: documentary called UFO Cover Up Live, and that's the one

367
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 3: people famously remembered because there were some shadow interviews from

368
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:13,880
Speaker 3: people supposedly on the cover up and they were talking

369
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Speaker 3: about having an extraterrestrial biological entity and custody that famously

370
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,880
Speaker 3: liked strawberry ice cream okay, which a very specific thing. Okay,

371
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Speaker 3: And there's a whole background on UFO cover Up Live

372
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:28,960
Speaker 3: that we don't have time to go into. Let's just

373
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 3: say that we knew that had happened because it was

374
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Speaker 3: about five six years prior to this meeting we're having

375
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Speaker 3: at Dark Skies. But one of the things that UFO

376
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,440
Speaker 3: cover Up did is it introduced the concept of the Aviary,

377
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 3: which was a faction of the Air Force. Correct not

378
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 3: too subtle aviary birds flying around. But where it got

379
00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 3: weird for us and why we invoked that is these

380
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,520
Speaker 3: guys said that they were part of the aquarium.

381
00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:01,000
Speaker 1: Yes, and the implication was obviously Aquarium, Navy, AVI Air Force.

382
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,719
Speaker 1: The implication that they put forward to us was that

383
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,479
Speaker 1: the Aquarium were the good guys. They were the people

384
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,159
Speaker 1: trying to working for disclosure, coming out, making deals with

385
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,919
Speaker 1: people in Hollywood to slow drip the truth through the

386
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 1: media and condition people give them a soft landing, all

387
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,439
Speaker 1: of those euphemisms. Whereas the Air Force wanted the cover up,

388
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 1: was definitely actively working to keep things covered up, and

389
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 1: we didn't get into the specifics of why. I think

390
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 1: in the intervening years, there's talk that there's more of

391
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 1: a religious viewpoint of the phenomenon and aliens and everything

392
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: in the Air Force, and so they wanted to keep

393
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,159
Speaker 1: it secret. Whatever the case may be, it was clear

394
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Speaker 1: that JC and the Captain were presenting themselves as the

395
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: good guys in this battle, and they wanted to recruit

396
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Speaker 1: us to be part of the good team.

397
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Speaker 3: In fairness, I have to tell you, over the years,

398
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 3: where I've told partial tidbits of this story or at

399
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:08,520
Speaker 3: least ask people, I do remember multiple people when I

400
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 3: said aquarium they kind of laughed like that was funny

401
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 3: to them. And I think that their attitude, and in

402
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 3: fact our attitude at the time was maybe this is

403
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 3: all just disinformation. Maybe these guys are here to find

404
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 3: out how gullible Freedman and Zabel really are. And we

405
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 3: didn't get hung up on that issue, but it did

406
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 3: come out there. So what happened is at this conference

407
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 3: room thing, the Captain was just yes, JC had said,

408
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,240
Speaker 3: you got a lot of things right. The Captain was

409
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 3: there to tell us what we didn't get right, and

410
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 3: what we didn't get right was this ganglion, which was

411
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 3: a biological thing that embedded itself into somebody's brain and right,

412
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 3: And I remember him specifically saying, and you and I

413
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,960
Speaker 3: have used this phrase over the years several times when

414
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 3: talking about this. He said, that's not the way it works.

415
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I remember when he said that, he said

416
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,879
Speaker 1: it was such disdain. He actually made me think of

417
00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: Frank Bach, our captain, our Navy captain character.

418
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 3: In Dark Skies.

419
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: It felt like we were getting chastised by one of

420
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,520
Speaker 1: our own characters at that moment.

421
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. And Frank Buch was played by the late actor J. T. Walsh,

422
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 3: who was in a future episode. We'll talk about what

423
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 3: a seriously troubled dude this guy was. His character was

424
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,440
Speaker 3: mean and nasty, and so was the actor, at least

425
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 3: at that time of his life. To say that he

426
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 3: reminded you of Frank Bach scary. The reason we hired J. T. Walsh, remember,

427
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,400
Speaker 3: was was intimidating. He was intimidating. And when we first said,

428
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: when it was in casting, can we get J. T.

429
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,200
Speaker 3: Walsh to play Frank Bach and people like, no, he's

430
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 3: a major guy. You make it a J. T. Walsh

431
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 3: type of actor. And we said, can't you just ask?

432
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 3: And we did and they gave it to him. Another thing,

433
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 3: by the way, that came up because it was so

434
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 3: much on our minds because remember the is about the

435
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 3: Roswell piece and given to JFK, and the first episode

436
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 3: now is literally merging the Roswell's story into the aftermath

437
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 3: of the assassination in Dallas. So Roswell was on our minds.

438
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,160
Speaker 3: Maybe it's because I was a reformed journalist at that point,

439
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: but I had questions. So I thought, if these guys

440
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: are going to play this game, let's at least find

441
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,680
Speaker 3: out they want to know what we know. I want

442
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 3: to know what they know. If they're telling us there's

443
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: a deal to be had, then maybe they should dangle

444
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 3: some of this information out here, because if they're not

445
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 3: even going to tell us their names yet, JC did,

446
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 3: or at least he gave us a name. Anyway, the

447
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 3: idea that Roswell was an anomalous event did get acknowledged

448
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 3: in this meeting, but we were told by this Captain character,

449
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 3: don't ask us any more about dates or places. That's

450
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,160
Speaker 3: not what this meeting is about. And that happened, And

451
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 3: we also brought up the idea because again, if you're

452
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 3: going to say you've got a lot of things right,

453
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 3: we're thinking about Ken Roswell. So we query them about

454
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 3: that relationship between these two things. And as I was

455
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 3: thinking about this last week prepping for this brand, I

456
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 3: remembered very clearly that this guy cut us off and

457
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 3: he said two words, not today. Yes, no.

458
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 1: But I remember thinking at the time he didn't poo

459
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: poo it like he did the Gangli, and he didn't

460
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: confirm nor deny that there was a relationship between JFK

461
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: and Roswell. He just said not today, because, as it

462
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 1: turned out, they had pressing business they wanted to talk

463
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 1: with us.

464
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 3: Sure, And by the way, just to show you that

465
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 3: I don't take no for an answer, sometimes to my

466
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 3: own detriment. After having said not today, what was on

467
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 3: my mind was we were actually in the middle of

468
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: breaking a story about Scoro, New Mexico. Oh right, that

469
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 3: would become an episode. I believe Jim Perriot wrote it,

470
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 3: and it was called Hostile Convergence, And so we were

471
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 3: in the middle of a lot of those writers' room

472
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 3: discussions about how to make this happen. So I asked

473
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 3: him something about it again just shut down with the

474
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 3: I don't remember the specifics, but it would have been

475
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 3: something like not on the agenda. The guy was terse

476
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 3: and negative, not on the agenda, and one other thing

477
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 3: that came up. I'm just giving the content stuff here.

478
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: I believe another thing that came up was clearly the

479
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 3: abduction phenomenon, because in the pilot we had Betty and

480
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 3: Barney Hill as characters in it, right, And then also

481
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: in the pilot, John Loanguard's girlfriend, Kim Sayers was abducted herself, right, right,

482
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 3: So abductions were a pretty major thing, and he seemed

483
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: to acknowledge that. He seemed to acknowledge that not only

484
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 3: was happening, but they were clearly tinkering with our DNA.

485
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: And I might be wrong about this one, so I'm

486
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 3: kind of curious if your recollection matches it. One of

487
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 3: us might have been you even But somebody said, how

488
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 3: long has this been going on? Is this a long

489
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 3: term thing? Or is this something that just started with

490
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: Betty and Barney? And again he dismissed it and moved

491
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 3: on by saying something like.

492
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: Next, yeah, yeah, no, I that actually topic. I'm pretty

493
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: sure it was me that tried to probe on that

494
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: because it interested me greatly. But he just wasn't, Like

495
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 1: I said, he was not interested in answering our questions.

496
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 1: This was one of those things where you're being interrogated

497
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: by a cop and you're trying to ask questions to

498
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: the cop and they say, no, I asked the questions right.

499
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 1: In this case, he was trying to run the meeting,

500
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: and we were flailing for answers, right because we've got

501
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: two people suddenly on the inside. We're trying to get

502
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: anything we can out of this meeting, and he is

503
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: just intent on taking it exactly where he wants me

504
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: to get.

505
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 3: And we are going to get to that in one second.

506
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 3: But I wrote one other thing down that I recall

507
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: really pissed him off, right, because remember, these guys had

508
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: acknowledged we're from the Office of Naval Intelligence, which, by

509
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 3: the way, is historically a thing Bob Lazar his story

510
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 3: was tied to Office of Naval Intelligence people, and later,

511
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 3: if we have time, we'll talk about John Lear and

512
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 3: how he acknowledged that. So I think our question was,

513
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: if you're from the Office of Naval Intelligence, why are

514
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 3: you guys in charge of things that are flying around

515
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: in the skies. What about the things in the oceans,

516
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 3: which now is a hot topic USO's unidentified submerged objects.

517
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 3: So that was not a question this gentleman wanted to hear.

518
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 3: He did, though, by my recollection, want to know what

519
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 3: we are going to do about that. We're rewriting some

520
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 3: episodes because he hadn't seen any yet, which was so

521
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 3: disturbing that somebody, this guy knew more about what was

522
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 3: coming up in the show, potentially than some network executives

523
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 3: that we had right, so he's not seeing it in

524
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 3: the show. And I know my fault at that time

525
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 3: in that meeting, as I was a little too practical.

526
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: So I went into this dissertation about how it's very

527
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: difficult to shoot on water and you got to get

528
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 3: water tanks. I'm talking about the production part of all

529
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: of that, and he was not satisfied at all about that.

530
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 3: And then I think he did get to the thing

531
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 3: he wanted to talk about.

532
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: Yes, So I guess let's get into the meat of

533
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: the meeting here. So here's what happened. As Bryce pointed out,

534
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: these guys had seen our pilot, they had seemingly looked

535
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: at our briefing book, and there was an understanding that

536
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: we were going to be taking the show into space.

537
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: Our season two was largely focused on all of the moonflights,

538
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: the Moon missions, and we had a whole alternate history

539
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 1: storyline around that.

540
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 3: Let me just add one point to that and then

541
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: run with it. Our first season ended in nineteen sixty

542
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 3: seven in the Summer of Love, and that was a

543
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,479
Speaker 3: little different than what our Bible said. We thought we

544
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 3: were going to go decade by decade, but we found

545
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 3: out there were so many things happening that we only

546
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: got by our twentieth hour of production to the Summer

547
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 3: of Love. And what we were going to start the

548
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 3: next season with was nineteen sixty eight, which is still

549
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,959
Speaker 3: considered one of the toughest years in American history, and

550
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: we were going to move through at least to Watergate,

551
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 3: which was night teen seventy four, which means the whole

552
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: Apollo program right part of it.

553
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, So they had some awareness based on our Bible

554
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: that we were going to go there out into space

555
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: as it were, and I remember there's some declaration of

556
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: we're going to have to move that up. You're going

557
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: to have to get to that sooner because.

558
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: What's going on.

559
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: And this is where he went from not answering any

560
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: questions to basically getting up on his high horse and

561
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: telling us what the whole point from his or from

562
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: the Office of Naval Intelligence purview, the whole point of

563
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: the UAP phenomenon was, which is it's all about the moon.

564
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, what we had some ideas and

565
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: there were certainly conspiracy theories about the moon landings being

566
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: faked and whatnot, but I had never contemplated that. As

567
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 1: he said, it was all about the moon. So this

568
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: really came out of left field. But he then went

569
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: on to explain that the reason that it was all

570
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 1: about the Moon is that there are others. I think

571
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: that was his word for aliens. I know specifically, he didn't.

572
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: He never used the word aliens. He used others. And

573
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: he said there are others who are using the Moon

574
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: as a staging ground for various activities that included manufacturing, mining,

575
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: all sorts of stuff for some sort of meta material

576
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: that was being.

577
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 3: Used to produce craft.

578
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: I think that was what he said, that was coming

579
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: and going from Earth to the Moon. And he said

580
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 1: this with such kind of matter of fact confidence that

581
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: when I heard this, I thought, WHOA, Okay, so that's

582
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: what's going on. He sold it really well in the room.

583
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 3: He did. Yeah. By the way, just as a sidebar,

584
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 3: when Richard Dolan, and I wrote ad after Disclosure, we

585
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 3: were wondering what to call these aliens or nhi or whatever.

586
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: And remember Whitley Street where he called them the visitors,

587
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 3: and so we can't call them the visitors, and we

588
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: don't want to call them aliens because what if they're

589
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: not aliens? What if they're time travelers, or what if

590
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: they're interdimensionals whatever. So I harkened back to that and

591
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 3: suggested to rich we call them the others, and that's

592
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 3: what's in a d book. But this thing takes a

593
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 3: radical turn, though, because confident as he was, and overwhelming

594
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 3: as that may have seemed, and you make a good point,

595
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 3: it felt I guess I have to believe that, but

596
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 3: I totally did not at that point, right. I don't

597
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 3: remember what questions I was asking, but it just was like,

598
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: wait a minute, what are you talking about. I don't

599
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 3: think I was as verbal about that, but you can

600
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 3: sort of read a guy in a room. We were

601
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 3: trying to read them, they were reading us, and I

602
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 3: probably had that look on my face of what are

603
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 3: you talking about? And I recall at that point he

604
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 3: pulled out a little vial, a little glass vial and

605
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: you've seen these. They're little sample vials. They're tiny, had

606
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: a black screwtop on the top, and it had something

607
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 3: in it. And I'm going to let you go with that. Yes.

608
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: When we questioned him about the moon being the center

609
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: of everything, he again got annoyed, reached into his coat

610
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: pocket and took out this little vial and like almost

611
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: slammed it down on the table and said, this is

612
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: what it's all about. And both you and I were

613
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: looking at it like that, this what's in this little vial.

614
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: That's the explanation for roswell and the cover up and

615
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: everything else, like oh okay, And I know we each

616
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: took a turn picking it up and looking at it.

617
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 1: What I remember is picking it up and seeing that

618
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: it had what looked.

619
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 3: Like to me fool's gold.

620
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: A fool's gold is something that actually looks more like

621
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: gold than actual gold. It was more like this brightish yellow,

622
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: but it was like it was flaky. It looked was

623
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: like gold flakes almost, And I remember looking at it

624
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 1: and shaking it to see, okay, how light is this stuff?

625
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: And everything like a snow globe just fluttered throughout the

626
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 1: little vial, except there was no liquid in it. I'm

627
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: kind of shaking it and it's all just fluttering, right.

628
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: So either this vial was some sort of a vacuum

629
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: or there was some strange quality to this stuff, but

630
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: there was nothing really spectacular about it other than it

631
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: was just this kind of gold meta material apparently that

632
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: had a slightly lighter than air quality to it, if

633
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:19,719
Speaker 1: you can believe that.

634
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 3: And that was it.

635
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: That was the entire piece of evidence that he was

636
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:24,719
Speaker 1: willing to share with us.

637
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 3: Pretty light evidence, if you will. Now, Okay, I don't

638
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 3: remember the snow globe aspect. This is where again it's

639
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 3: rasham on time. Although maybe it's not even that you

640
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 3: looked at it you shook it. I remember looking at it.

641
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: I don't think I shook it. So what I saw

642
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 3: was if the thing was this big, the little flakes

643
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 3: were about that much of it, maybe a little less

644
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 3: than half of it. And I grew up in a

645
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 3: pretty poor family. We did not have gold lying around,

646
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: no gold coins, no gold bouoyon, no gold flakes, no nothing,

647
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: so I had no experience with what gold actually would

648
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 3: look like to be on with you. I knew it

649
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 3: as a color, but not as a substance, and I

650
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 3: honestly can't say that it impressed me in any real

651
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 3: way other than the fact that he thought it was

652
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 3: so impressive. As you said, he sold it. It was

653
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: challenging the way he put it out there. Of course,

654
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 3: it was almost like I wasn't going to show it

655
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 3: to you guys, but you're so difficult that yeah, kind

656
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 3: of like that.

657
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 1: That was like, you want evidence, Fine, here's your evidence.

658
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: And that was it, and that was as far as

659
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: he was going to go with the explanation. I think

660
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,479
Speaker 1: the interesting thing too at that point was it brought

661
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: up a lot of questions for me. What was going

662
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: through my head and why I was maybe both intrigued

663
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: by the story but also probably resistant in some way.

664
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: Was I was already fast forwarding to, Oh, no, we're

665
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: going to have to rewrite so much. We're gonna our

666
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: whole second season where you have to pull up and

667
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: what are we going to do? This is gonna be

668
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 1: so much work, Because in my mind I was already thinking, Okay,

669
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: I guess we're probably going to take this deal, and

670
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: it's going to be a ton of work, And so

671
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: I was already thinking that's a great reason not to

672
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: take the deal.

673
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and by the way, that's a good transition though,

674
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: because that's where we kind of went back to the deal.

675
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: But I just want to make one kind of overall statement.

676
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 3: Over the years, I have heard various people tell me

677
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 3: what they think is going on. I've heard David Grush

678
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: tell me, and Colthart and Dolan and people. We've had

679
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 3: these conversations, and a lot of the things that I

680
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 3: didn't hear until David Grush was holding up his hand

681
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: in Congress were sort of implied in that meeting, the

682
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 3: idea that there have been crashes, like going back to Roswell.

683
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 3: I think he was agreeing with Roswell, but again he

684
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 3: did it so dismissively. He did it like that, if

685
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 3: you kids think that's the only time these things have crashed,

686
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 3: then I don't know what to do about you guys. Right,

687
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 3: So there was an implication there were more than one.

688
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 3: There was a sort of implication that there was some

689
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 3: kind of reverse engineering. I don't remember how it came up,

690
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 3: but how do you think these things are? You know,

691
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 3: not all of them are theirs or something like that.

692
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 3: So certain key elements that have become part of the

693
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 3: lore were feathered in there. So I do feel like

694
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 3: there's a consistency between what the captain said to us

695
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 3: and what David grushed old Congress that there's other stuff. Anyway.

696
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 3: At a certain point, remember JC is talking a little bit,

697
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: but mostly he's letting us talk and he's letting the

698
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 3: guy talk, right, And at a certain point on this

699
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 3: moon thing, it got a little I wouldn't say heated,

700
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: but it was like that moment where there's ten seconds

701
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 3: of silence and everyone's looking at each other and you're thinking, Okay,

702
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: this isn't going real. Well, what's going to go on?

703
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: And we're already over an hour into this thing. So

704
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 3: at that point, my recollection is he jumps in, trying

705
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 3: to be the good cop again and trying to get

706
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 3: this conversation moving in the right direction. He kind of

707
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 3: blurts out, let's talk about how to move forward with

708
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 3: this deal.

709
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, the logistics. That was what he wanted to talk

710
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: about right now.

711
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 3: It's so weird because with all this other stuff going on,

712
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 3: the thing that we get hung up on in this

713
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 3: meeting is actually funny in retrospect. But they basically were

714
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 3: still arguing, look, we will provide you with access to

715
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 3: certain key facts and you will provide us with this

716
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 3: forum for this slow drip disclosure. And so I started

717
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 3: when he said that, I was like, what, how would

718
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 3: this work? And we would give you things and then

719
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: they'd be typed up and you'd put them into your

720
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 3: It was sort of dismissive to the writing process it were. Now,

721
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 3: what you have to understand is at that point you

722
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 3: and I had gone through a really rough thing on

723
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 3: that we had been forced into a writer's guild arbitration

724
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: over dark Skies because the network a week before production

725
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 3: had said to the studio, hey, let's get some guys

726
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 3: in here. Let's get another writing team in here to

727
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 3: punch up a couple of the scenes. And so what

728
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,839
Speaker 3: ended up happening is people we didn't know and we

729
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 3: weren't told about, provided some dialogue for a couple of scenes,

730
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 3: and only one line ever made it into the film,

731
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 3: and it had something to do with the drapes in

732
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 3: the apartment that Languard was going to be in. They said,

733
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 3: these drapes look older than the Coolidge administration. That was

734
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 3: their line. Suddenly we were defending our lives with a

735
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: writer's guild arbitration just to.

736
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: Jump into quick an arbitration, for anyone who doesn't know,

737
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: is when the credit either story credit or write written

738
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: by credit on a teleplay, a screenplay, whatever it may be,

739
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: is contested. A multiple peeable feel they deserve the credit

740
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: or more credit or first position or whatever it is.

741
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: And our union, which is the Writer's Guild of America,

742
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: basically acts as the arbitrator of that kind of contested

743
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: credits case. And they bring in various writers and they say, okay,

744
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: everybody read all the material and evaluate who made the

745
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: big contribution and who made the smaller contribution, and then

746
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: we'll figure out what the official crample.

747
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 3: We're going to everybody's stuff.

748
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: And that's part of what you agree to when you

749
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,640
Speaker 1: join the Writers Guild, that when these things go to arbitration,

750
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: you will accept the arbitration it is, therefore buying it.

751
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 3: And it's done anonymously. The arbiters are anonymous, so were

752
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 3: the writers. So you and I were writer A. We

753
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 3: had to write a statement of writer A. We don't

754
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 3: even know if these other guys or actually it was

755
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 3: I think a husband wife team. I found out later

756
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 3: would be writer B. And listen, I found the It's

757
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: seven pages long. I'm not going to read it, but

758
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 3: the run the finale to it, I think is just

759
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 3: worth reading because it's fun. Because this was our conclusion

760
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: we wrote. The teleplay for Dark Skies is based on

761
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 3: a concept with a Bible timeline which runs from seventy

762
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 3: five million BC to the year two thousand and eight.

763
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 3: It reinterprets all of human history through the prism of

764
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 3: UFO contact with an alien parasite civilization named the Hive,

765
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: been on world domination by the millennium. In the teleplay

766
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 3: you have read, Dark Skies begins the creation of an

767
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 3: entire alternative history where the most important date ever occurred

768
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 3: in our lifetimes February seventeenth, nineteen sixty two, the discovery

769
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:14,240
Speaker 3: of Patients zero. The pilot script speculates on alien involvement

770
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: in the shooting down of Francis Gary Powers, the Cuban

771
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 3: Missile crisis, and ultimately the assassination of John Kennedy. It

772
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 3: takes the reader viewer into a covert military organization whose

773
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 3: activities are unknown to our leaders, much less our citizens,

774
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 3: and then it concludes, we don't mean to be flipped,

775
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: but clearly this outweighs a line of dialogue about some

776
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 3: old curtains, which I thought this one of our best

777
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 3: better written things you and I have ever written. And

778
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 3: we also pointed out that we had done thirteen drafts

779
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 3: and all of.

780
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: This leafs these Yeah, okay, so needless to say, by

781
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: the way, we got sole credit.

782
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did, and the arbitration came back very quickly.

783
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 3: I don't even know if writer be Ever even wrote something,

784
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 3: but we felt like we had to hit him with

785
00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 3: overpowering force. So hence seven pages anyway, normally not important,

786
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 3: but it was important in our mind state at this

787
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: point that sometimes you have to defend your life and

788
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 3: you have to defend your creative input and if we

789
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 3: don't defend it strongly, So in the middle of preparing

790
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: for production, you and I had to drop everything and

791
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 3: write this statement to try to get credit for the pilot,

792
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 3: which we did and then also we got the creative

793
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:23,799
Speaker 3: buy for the TV series because of them. Anyway, so

794
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 3: this is in my mind as this guy's telling us,

795
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 3: we're going to give you stuff, and I started asking

796
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 3: questions about, Okay, you're going to give us storylines, do

797
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 3: you want credit on this? What writers? Are you going

798
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 3: to try to suggest writers? Because the network has their

799
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 3: writers that they're suggesting, and the studio as writers they're suggesting,

800
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 3: and Brent and I have writers that were suggesting, and

801
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 3: you want us to tell the network in the studio that, hey,

802
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 3: we got some writers we don't want to tell you about,

803
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 3: but they've got some good ideas. And then I think

804
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 3: the other thing is we are feeling protective of our staff.

805
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 3: That writers make a living and have family is based

806
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,760
Speaker 3: on having residual fees that come based on the credit

807
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 3: risk that they get on the scripts. Yeah, and so

808
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 3: we started asking him about these things. I think it

809
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: was mostly me. I think you were probably in shock

810
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 3: that I was going down this road. But this guy

811
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 3: was getting increasingly frustrated because I was taking this thing

812
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 3: that he was just tossing off and I was like, no, wait,

813
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 3: so you would then do this, and then you would

814
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 3: do that, but wait, no, we couldn't do that. We

815
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 3: could and write. So it got very, uh, I don't

816
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 3: know what contentious.

817
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 1: He was not in a good move when he arrived,

818
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: and I think we worked him into a state of

819
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: complete discombobulation. He was so confused and frustrated why we

820
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: were now talking about writerskilled residuals and he made it

821
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: very clear that either he nor anyone that he worked

822
00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: with cared about credits or money. That's not what this

823
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: was about. We've had enough, This isn't gonna work. And

824
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,319
Speaker 1: next thing we knew, the meeting was falling apart and

825
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: they were heading for the door, and that was unceremoniously

826
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: that was the end of the meeting.

827
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I remember feeling almost relieved because the minute

828
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: they hit the door, I got up, grabbed a cup

829
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 3: of coffee, and went back to my office and started

830
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 3: doing whatever is I had to do, because that's just it.

831
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: If this would happen under a normal situation, if happened

832
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 3: to you and me today, we'd have had them walk

833
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 3: out and then said, holy shit, can you imagine what

834
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: are they saying here? And we probably did that for

835
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 3: a couple of minutes, but then we had scripts and

836
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 3: production all this stuff going on, and so we just

837
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 3: went back to work. And so if we do an

838
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: interlude here at all, it would simply be to ask

839
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,160
Speaker 3: ourselves what we thought of this whole moon thing, because

840
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 3: the moon is a seriously important thing in science fiction.

841
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 3: It's a place where secrets are kept, right, people are

842
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 3: either mining or there's military on the moon or the

843
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 3: moonlight is fake?

844
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: Well, the moon is moon is not real. It's an artificial.

845
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is Roland Emerick, who we were talking about

846
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 3: for Independence Dy he wrote it. He did a movie

847
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,720
Speaker 3: Moonfall where it's falling into the earth. So there's always

848
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 3: all these secrets about the moon, and the moon is

849
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 3: an important thing to a lot of people, and you

850
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 3: take a crack at it. But I do have a

851
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 3: personal story that is not relevant to dark skies. But

852
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 3: if I don't tell it right now, I'm going to

853
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 3: hate myself. So you can run with whatever you got first.

854
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: No, if you want to, I don't want you to

855
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: hate yourself, So please share your story.

856
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 3: Okay, here's the thing. This is going to date me

857
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 3: and people that know math are going to know how

858
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 3: old I am, and I hate that. But on the

859
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 3: other end, when you google somebody these days, it tells

860
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: you how old they are, So okay, screw it now

861
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 3: you know. But when I was fifteen years old, I

862
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 3: was a fry cook at the Arctic Circle restaurant in Hillsboro, Oregon,

863
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 3: and Brent I'd worked my way up. I started at

864
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 3: a dollar ten an hour and I was up to

865
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 3: a dollar thirty five an hour, and I was feeling good.

866
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 3: But I was also interested in space. And July twentieth,

867
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty nine was coming up and my boss, who

868
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 3: was a Basque separatist immigrant who had come to the US,

869
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 3: I asked him, Hey, his name is Mariano Bilboo, and

870
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 3: I said, Mariano, can i'd like to have the night

871
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 3: They put the schedule up and I was scheduled to

872
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 3: work on that night and I said, I really feel

873
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 3: like i'd like to see the moon landing? Right, so

874
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 3: can I have that night off? And he goes, this

875
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 3: is not this is a business. No, you can't have

876
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: the night off. And I said can we put a

877
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 3: TV in here? And he goes, TV, No, you can't

878
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 3: put a TV. And what about a radio? No, no radio.

879
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 3: You come to work. And so because it was such

880
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 3: a good and high paying job, I said, okay, I'll

881
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 3: do it. So that night comes and it's the moon

882
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: landing's happening in about thirty five minutes or so, and

883
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 3: I just can't handle it. And so I called my

884
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 3: father at home. And my father was one of these

885
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 3: you had a tough dad. I had a tough dad,

886
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 3: not a lot of praise, a lot of critics, kind

887
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: of thing, tight emotional state on the guy, and I said, Dad,

888
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 3: I really want to see the moon landing. Can you

889
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 3: come pick me up? And then I pulled the phone

890
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 3: out because I know the lecture's coming. He's going to say, no,

891
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 3: you you made a commitment to that job, and by God,

892
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 3: you've got to serve that commitment. And so I'm thinking

893
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,280
Speaker 3: this is hail Mary, but it's not going to go anywhere.

894
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 3: And to his credit, in kind of a Wonder Year's

895
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: kind of moment, my father says, I'll be right down. Wow.

896
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: So I say great, I take off my apron I

897
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 3: go wait outside. My father comes, I get in the

898
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 3: car and he goes, you know you'll be fired, and

899
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: I'm fifteen years old, and I said, yeah, I know,

900
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 3: and he said, okay, let's go. We went home. We

901
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: watched the moon landing. It was everything I hoped it

902
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 3: would be. We all anyone who was alive knows what

903
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 3: it felt like. And at the end of the moon landing,

904
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,120
Speaker 3: at about half an hour in of watching, my father

905
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: turns to me and he says, I think it's time

906
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 3: for you to go face the music. So I get

907
00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 3: in the car. We drive back to the Arctic Circle

908
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 3: and there's Mariano who's been called in that Bryce has

909
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 3: abandoned his post. And Mariano sees me get out of

910
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 3: the car and he fires me instantly, and my father,

911
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 3: God bless him, because this is the only time I

912
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 3: really have this great feeling about him. He looks at

913
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 3: Mariano Bilbao and he goes, you know, sir, you do

914
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 3: not understand how important this is and how it's going

915
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 3: to change the course of human history, and you're going

916
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 3: to feel bad about what you've done for the rest

917
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 3: of your life. Son, get in the car and we

918
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 3: went home. Okay, And I never worked there again, obviously.

919
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 3: But so I guess the reason I feel like I

920
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 3: have to tell this story because when I think about

921
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,439
Speaker 3: the moon and the moon landing, it's not about where

922
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 3: I was when I saw the moon landing. It's about

923
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 3: where I was. And that's my story.

924
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: That's a great story, and it's a very interesting segue

925
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: into my story about the first movie I ever saw,

926
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 1: which was two thousand and one A Space Honesty. Yeah,

927
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,440
Speaker 1: I will date myself as well. When the movie came

928
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: out in nineteen sixty eight, I was five years old. Now,

929
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: if you've seen two thousand and one, a space Odyssey

930
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: by the renowned director Stanley Kubrick, you'll know it is

931
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: not appropriate material for a five year old. But my

932
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: dad took me to the Oaks Theater in Berkeley, California.

933
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: I had never been in a movie theater before, right,

934
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 1: and walking up to the balcony, I remember he wanted

935
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: to sit in the ballow.

936
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, are you telling me two thousand and

937
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: one is the first theater, first theater movie that I

938
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 3: ever saw. That's age five years old? Yep.

939
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 1: So we're sitting in the balcony of this old theater

940
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: in Berkeley, California, and just the sound track of that

941
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: movie alone was so bombastic. We're not going to get

942
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: into all of the scenes in the movie, but suffice

943
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: to say that it opens up with something probably a

944
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: lot of people have seen or they've seen parodies of,

945
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: which is you're back in prehistory with a bunch of

946
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: apes when humans were apes, running around picking up bones,

947
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 1: beating each other up, killing each other. And then they

948
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,799
Speaker 1: find the monolith, the famous black rectangle, right, which is

949
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: this iconic mythic symbol of man's consciousness or higher consciousness

950
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: or something. Anyway, these monkeys in ancient times are finding

951
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: this monolith which starts humming, and one of them throws

952
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: a bone at it, and next thing, the bone spins

953
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: up into the air and becomes a spaceship, and we're

954
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: in space. And that's how the whole movie opened. And

955
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: that I say all of this because from about that

956
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: point on, as a five year old, I think I

957
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: just went numb. I really didn't remember anything about the

958
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: rest of the movie other than that. But here's the

959
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: funny thing. My dad was so taken with the movie

960
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: that he bought the soundtrack. And I grew up in

961
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 1: Berkeley in the sixties and my parents were artists and

962
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: fairly young. There was a lot of partying that went

963
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: on at our house, and I remember, not on one occasion,

964
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: but many occasions waking up in the middle of the

965
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 1: night two three in the morning. My parents were out

966
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: partying with their friends, and my dad was playing the

967
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: soundtrack to two thousand and one at high vault. So

968
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: what I was hearing were the sound of monkeys hooting

969
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: and hollering in Bay. And I remember so many times

970
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: waking up to the sound of these monkeys screaming, right,

971
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,880
Speaker 1: which explains a lot of my childhood. And so that

972
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 1: was my two thousand and one experience until much later

973
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: when I went back, and I've seen it many times.

974
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: It's not up there with close encounters or contact where

975
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: I've seen it twenty or thirty, but I have seen

976
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: it probably ten times. It's a fantastic movie. We can

977
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about some of the things in it.

978
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 3: I had to talk about that soundtrack one moment, though, yes, please,

979
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,720
Speaker 3: I owned the soundtrack as an LP, of course, an album,

980
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 3: and I'm just telling everybody right now, if you google

981
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 3: two thousand and one soundtrack album and look for images,

982
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 3: the back cover of the two thousand and one soundtrack

983
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 3: shows a couple of astronauts looking at a tablet, and

984
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 3: if you look at that tablet, you will see two

985
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:55,320
Speaker 3: letters on it, BZ and as Bryce's Abel. You know BZ.

986
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 3: Just well. When I first realized that I was in

987
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 3: college and we we're going to see two thousand and

988
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 3: one on Saturday nights, everybody would go to the midnight

989
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,279
Speaker 3: show of two thousand and one stoned out of their

990
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,840
Speaker 3: minds because they wanted to see the final sequence. But

991
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: I was very proud, it said, BZ. Listen. The film

992
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 3: is so interesting because it suggests that humanity is part

993
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 3: of a larger evolutionary experiment that's been guided by this

994
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 3: unseen non human intelligence. And the key to it, though, Brent,

995
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 3: is that the Moon is serving as the trigger point

996
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 3: in that process. So, yes, these guys in the movie

997
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,399
Speaker 3: go all the way to Jupiter and that's where the

998
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: starchild and all this great ending stuff. But there's the

999
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: sequence on the Moon where they are excavating this thing,

1000
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 3: and so what begins is a story about space exploration.

1001
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 3: Ultimately it becomes a meditation on existence itself, and the

1002
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 3: Moon is positioned not as a destination but as a

1003
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 3: silent signal that something or somebody has been watching and waiting,

1004
00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 3: And that, to me is why two thousand and one.

1005
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,720
Speaker 3: I'm with you. I've seen it at least a dozen times,

1006
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 3: possibly more.

1007
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've before, we've kind of read loglines. You just

1008
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: did a great job of encapsulating not the plot so much,

1009
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 1: but what it's about. What's the meaning of two thousand

1010
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 1: and one, because I think the plot would be difficult

1011
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: to summarize because it's a movie that's told in segments

1012
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: that are related, but go see the movie. It's amazing.

1013
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: It still holds up today. It looks as good as

1014
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,080
Speaker 1: any movie that is out right now.

1015
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,240
Speaker 3: I actually look forward to us doing an entire episode

1016
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 3: about moon movies and a long form dissertation on two

1017
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 3: thousand and one, but I know we have other business

1018
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 3: to take care of. I will say there is a

1019
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 3: collection of Moon movies just waiting for us to weigh

1020
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 3: in on them. But the one that's about if you

1021
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,560
Speaker 3: will Mining on the Moon, which is what the captain

1022
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 3: was saying, Yes, this is what it's about. The most

1023
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 3: recent one that I've seen that's all about that is Moon. Yes.

1024
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,399
Speaker 3: Heelium three, wasn't it? Yes? And I saw it last night.

1025
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 3: It holds together, folks. If you want to see a

1026
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,920
Speaker 3: great film. Sam Rockwell is the star of it. He

1027
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 3: plays all the roles in it. And it is Helium

1028
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 3: three that they're going after, so a fascinating thing. Now,

1029
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 3: most recently there's been my gosh, there's Moonfall. That's the

1030
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,439
Speaker 3: one we just talked about. Fly Me to the Moon

1031
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,440
Speaker 3: came out a couple of years ago where they're saying

1032
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 3: it was faked. And I couldn't even watch that one

1033
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 3: because I know it wasn't faked, so I don't like

1034
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 3: to talk about that.

1035
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 1: But on that topic, and I think this is interesting

1036
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: is that when people do talk about the moon landings

1037
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: being faked, who do they say directed them right on?

1038
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: Stanley Kubrick.

1039
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,719
Speaker 3: You bet. And the reason was is because.

1040
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,920
Speaker 1: The moon landings happened a year after two thousand and

1041
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: one came out, and I think a lot of people

1042
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 1: watch two thousand and one and it felt like watching

1043
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: a documentary. It felt like what everyone imagined space would

1044
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: look like. And so I think that no surprise when

1045
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: people said, how could they have pulled off these fake moonlandings?

1046
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:56,719
Speaker 3: Have Kubrick do it? Right?

1047
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 1: He just pulled off a miracle with two thousand and one.

1048
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,640
Speaker 1: So obviously there's no evidence that ever happened. There's a

1049
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: lot of conspiracy theories about it being faked, about Kubrick,

1050
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: about it being an artificial structure, there being mining going

1051
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: on the moon. This is where we get into kind

1052
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:17,839
Speaker 1: of the rabbit hole of what is really going on

1053
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: with the Moon and asking ourselves all these years later,

1054
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 1: was there anything to what the captain told us.

1055
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 3: Point of fact, I'm not one hundred percent sure of

1056
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 3: this part but when he did raise the moon as

1057
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 3: an issue, I do remember saying somebody saying something like

1058
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,840
Speaker 3: like in two thousand and one, just some sidebar reference,

1059
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 3: and again this guy being such a put down artist,

1060
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 3: saying something, if you think that the moon is all

1061
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 3: about classical music and blah blah blah, then you are

1062
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 3: not as smart as you think you are. Just something

1063
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 3: like that. So yeah, I also think, by the way,

1064
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 3: in context of your story, I believe Kubrick was asked

1065
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 3: about that and of course strenuously denied that it happened

1066
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 3: that he would fake the moon landing. On the other hand,

1067
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 3: people who think the moon landing was fake would say,

1068
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,120
Speaker 3: of course he'd deny it, so you can't ever get around.

1069
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: He had a sense of humor though, because in The

1070
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,480
Speaker 1: Shining Danny has a sweater that says Apollo eleven on it,

1071
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 1: so clearly he was well aware of what the rumors were.

1072
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,600
Speaker 3: Listen, there's so much to that, and all I know

1073
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 3: is that I did a lot of research on it,

1074
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 3: as did you, and we haven't even touched this surface.

1075
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 3: So let's just resolve. We're going to come back to that,

1076
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,720
Speaker 3: but right now we've got to resolve the Captain and JC.

1077
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 3: And as we left our story, we had a situation

1078
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: where these guys have left and not in a happy way.

1079
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 3: It was not a happy place where they left, and

1080
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 3: you and I had gone back to work, and time elapsed.

1081
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 3: I'm unclear how much time elapsed, because time kind of

1082
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 3: compresses when you're producing a TV series. It's like it's

1083
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 3: twenty four to seven. Now. You even dream about your

1084
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 3: series because you have to. Your brain has to keep

1085
00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 3: working because you've got to show up at seven in

1086
00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 3: the morning and right keep going and stay till nine

1087
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 3: at night and then drive home. So yeah, so that

1088
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 3: was going on, and then something happened.

1089
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:12,360
Speaker 1: So what happened was JC resurfaced and started calling I

1090
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: started getting more messages from my assistant. And why he

1091
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,240
Speaker 1: was calling me, I can't say. I think he felt

1092
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: I was the easier mark.

1093
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 3: I'm sure of that. I'm sure that's what happened.

1094
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 1: And so I finally once again got on the phone

1095
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 1: with him, and this time he had a little bit

1096
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 1: more kind of edge to his voice. He wasn't quite

1097
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: as friendly because obviously everyone knew that last meeting hadn't

1098
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: gone well. And he proceeded to say that we were

1099
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: being given one more chance to make this deal work,

1100
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: and they were pulling out the big guns. I think

1101
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: there was some kind of strange quote like that, And

1102
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: what it came down to was they were going to

1103
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: get us a meeting with an admiral, so someone even

1104
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: higher up than the captain. And what I was told

1105
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 1: was that there was I think an aircraft carrier or

1106
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:05,040
Speaker 1: some navy vessel coming into San Pedro, which is south

1107
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: of Los Angeles in one of the big port areas,

1108
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 1: and was going to be coming in there in a

1109
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: couple days, and the admiral of that ship was going

1110
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,840
Speaker 1: to take a personal leave from the ship and go

1111
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: on to shore to have a meeting with us that

1112
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 1: would not be an official meeting.

1113
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,400
Speaker 3: And before you lay that part out, though, let's just

1114
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 3: recall before that call came in, you and I did

1115
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 3: have time to have a couple of conversations, right. It

1116
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 3: still weighed on us, not so much that we thought

1117
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 3: the deal was on the table much we were like,

1118
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 3: I guess that didn't work out, But we still were

1119
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 3: talking about what's the point of view should we take

1120
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 3: this deal, what would that mean? Should we not take

1121
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 3: the deal, what would that mean? So that was an

1122
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 3: active conversation that we're having, and then it got real

1123
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 3: serious because they got back in touch with us correct.

1124
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: And so I'm listening to this proposal that we're going

1125
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: to be meeting with an admiral, and I was thinking, Wow,

1126
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 1: the captain was so intimidating.

1127
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 3: I can't think of.

1128
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 1: Someone meeting with someone more intimidating. But then the situation

1129
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 1: took a very dark turn because I said, Okay, where

1130
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: would we be meeting with this admiral and he said,

1131
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: that's the thing. This will not be an official meeting.

1132
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: So after hours he is going to request a personal

1133
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:19,959
Speaker 1: leave from the ship to come visit.

1134
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 3: And the reason though, just to be clear, they said,

1135
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 3: you can't meet him on the ship because you have

1136
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 3: to log you guys in exactly and you cannot be

1137
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 3: logged in. Now that's a very convenient thing if you're

1138
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 3: not who you say you are, say I can't bing

1139
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 3: you on the ship. But that that seemed plausible. They're

1140
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 3: not about to log in Friedman and is able to

1141
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,160
Speaker 3: meet an admiral if you're trying to keep a big

1142
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 3: secret for a Dark Sky's creative meeting. But where he

1143
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 3: wanted to meet us was Apparently the cover story that

1144
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 3: the admiral was using was he was going to go

1145
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 3: visit a friend of his, a deceased friend, and pay

1146
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 3: his respects at a nearby cemetery in Long Beach. The

1147
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 3: plan was, as JC state, you are going to meet

1148
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 3: the admiral at a specific gravesite, which we.

1149
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: Will give you the name of, at midnight. And all

1150
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: I heard was cemetery at midnight. And immediately what went

1151
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: into my mind was, we're going to go to this

1152
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 1: grave site and it's not going to be the gravesite

1153
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 1: of some friend of the admirals. I'm going to see

1154
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,480
Speaker 1: Brent Friedman's tombstone and bruck Sables tombstone, and there's going

1155
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,120
Speaker 1: to be two holes dug six feet deep. And as

1156
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 1: we're taking all of this in, we're going to get

1157
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: popped in the back of the head and that's where

1158
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: we will be.

1159
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:32,880
Speaker 3: Laid to rest.

1160
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: That was all of this went through my mind when

1161
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: he said cemetery at midnight.

1162
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 3: Mine too, because remember you had to come into my

1163
00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,680
Speaker 3: office and say there's been a development, and then you

1164
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 3: had to lay that on me. Now, as I've considered

1165
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 3: this over the years, to be told we're going to

1166
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 3: have a meeting in a cemetery at midnight. It's crazy.

1167
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 3: It's insane. Yeah, and there aren't a lot of great

1168
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 3: reasons why that would be worthwhile or why it would

1169
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 3: even be done. I thought when I I first heard this,

1170
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 3: my first take Brent was it's some kind of weird initiation.

1171
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt like a test. If these guys are

1172
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: willing to do this, then they're either complete idiots and

1173
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: we own them, or they're committed and they're in and

1174
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: we can trust them.

1175
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 3: One was a two. I remember saying you though, like,

1176
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 3: what is this some kind of weird initiation? You had

1177
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 3: a different take at the time. You were like, I

1178
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe there's something buried there that they're going

1179
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 3: to show us. Yes, at the time, I will be

1180
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 3: perfectly honest. I was completely terrified, but I was equally intrigued.

1181
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 3: And here was the good news. You had kids. I

1182
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 3: didn't have kids yet, so.

1183
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: There was a part of me that was like, maybe

1184
01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: i'll go, Bryce, you don't have to go, I'll go.

1185
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: And I think what it came down to was, no,

1186
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: we're in this together. You're not going. I'm not going.

1187
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: We have a show to run. No one's going to

1188
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: a cemetery at midnight.

1189
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 3: Let's drop it. I just I did feel like I

1190
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,959
Speaker 3: have a wife and three kids, and yes, the last

1191
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 3: the least responsible thing I could do in that position

1192
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 3: was to go to a cemetery at midnight. But before

1193
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 3: we actually lay out the ending of this, let's just

1194
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 3: summarize the conversations that we had before that phone call

1195
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 3: and even a little bit after it, before we weighed this.

1196
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 3: Let me give you some pro arguments for taking a

1197
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 3: deal with these guys. At the time, we thought access

1198
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 3: obviously could give us more authenticity for the show. We

1199
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 3: were idealistic. Potentially we thought, wow, if this actually is

1200
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 3: on the level, we might actually help facilitate real disclosure,

1201
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 3: which was positive. And also given that, as we talked

1202
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,479
Speaker 3: about in a previous episode, we started the whole cover

1203
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 3: of fiction thing, the idea that somebody would want to

1204
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 3: come to us with a desire to use cover of

1205
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 3: fiction wasn't as unreasonable as you might think. But I

1206
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 3: think the main argument pro was we'll finally get to

1207
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 3: know what's really going on, We'll get the truth, and

1208
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 3: that was seemed to be the promise in and I

1209
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 3: remember I do remember talking about that sitting and I

1210
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,120
Speaker 3: think we're sitting in my office because it had a

1211
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 3: on the other side. I was behind my chair, and

1212
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 3: we would talk to each other across that big old

1213
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 3: desk that they had, and we thought we might get

1214
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 3: to see a craft and a body.

1215
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: Yes, that was the inducement. That was seemed to be

1216
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 1: the promise. They never used those words, but in our minds,

1217
01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 1: if we were going to go to a cemetery at midnight,

1218
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 1: it was because there was a craft and a body

1219
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: somewhere that we were going to be shown.

1220
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 3: Now you were more open to taking it. So I'm

1221
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,600
Speaker 3: going to let you take some negative. What are the

1222
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:35,479
Speaker 3: negatives to taking such a deal?

1223
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: Look, I think that other than it sounds insane, I

1224
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 1: think the negatives were primarily that it felt like we

1225
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: would be losing control of the narrative. At what I

1226
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 1: mean by that is we had a show, We had

1227
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 1: a vision for the show. We had the network on board,

1228
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 1: the studio on board, we had stories broken, scripts written,

1229
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 1: and these guys being put in charge they had certainly

1230
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: the captain made it quite clear that if we were

1231
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 1: in business with him, he was going to tell us

1232
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: what was going to happen. He was going to be

1233
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 1: the showrunner in some sense of the word, and I

1234
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,000
Speaker 1: think that was terrifying, that sense, that loss of control.

1235
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: I think another thing that we talked about and we

1236
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: had to take seriously was, Okay, these guys are saying

1237
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,919
Speaker 1: this is the truth. They're saying they're the heroes, right,

1238
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: and we're going to be on their side and.

1239
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 3: Disclose to the people.

1240
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: Again, they were giving us the pitch of us being

1241
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 1: low and guard and dark skies.

1242
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 3: Let's get the.

1243
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 1: Truth out to the people. So that was enticing, But

1244
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: we also did consider but what if all of this

1245
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: is a syop? What if all of this is a lie?

1246
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: What if all of this is disinformation? And so that

1247
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,439
Speaker 1: idea that we could be end up taking a deal,

1248
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: lose control of the show, and only to be being

1249
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 1: used as part of a disinformation campaign was pretty disgusting. Additionally,

1250
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 1: there was the thing of if we do take the

1251
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 1: deal and they give us information, are we going to

1252
01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:01,560
Speaker 1: be blackmail at some point? Are people going to say

1253
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: years later, these guys didn't write the show. This was

1254
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: all given to them. So I think there was plenty

1255
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 1: of reasons not to do it. Again beyond just self preservation,

1256
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: I also think there was a personal reason for both

1257
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:15,880
Speaker 1: of us. Even though you didn't have kids, you had

1258
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,720
Speaker 1: a skeptical spouse, as did I, and I think that

1259
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: it would have created a legitimate personal rift between us

1260
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: and our lovels, and that would have been a difficult thing.

1261
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: So I agree with that we didn't want to be

1262
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: conduits for disinformation. The other thing, by the way, what

1263
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:32,760
Speaker 1: if it had become public that we had done this.

1264
01:04:33,200 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: If we had done it.

1265
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 3: It just seemed like that is so unknowable, and it

1266
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 3: clearly weighed on both of us, and I just want

1267
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,960
Speaker 3: to make one thing clear. Having some fun talking about

1268
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 3: it right now, but in the moment, I was disturbed.

1269
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 3: It was disturbed that somebody, let me put it this way,

1270
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 3: I didn't know if these guys were on the level

1271
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:55,040
Speaker 3: or not, but I did feel like somebody had spent

1272
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 3: a lot of time or and or money trying to

1273
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 3: build this situation around us, and it wasn't clear why.

1274
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,479
Speaker 3: If it was on the level, that would also mean

1275
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 3: that we'd be in a real troubling situation. I guess

1276
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 3: it's time. I don't think it's a mystery to anybody.

1277
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 3: But what it finally really came down to was the

1278
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 3: approach that these guys made from invading this party for

1279
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 3: the Dark Skuy's premiere and then coming to our offices

1280
01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,280
Speaker 3: and behaving the way they behaved, and then offering a

1281
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 3: cemetery at midnight, all of that seemed very alarming. It

1282
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:37,160
Speaker 3: seemed dangerous, It was coercive, and what's the word you use,

1283
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 3: It's insane. At least it felt insane. So at the

1284
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,680
Speaker 3: end of the day, I know my position was, I've

1285
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 3: got a wife and three kids. I'm not meeting anybody,

1286
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 3: any human being or any non human being at a

1287
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 3: cemetery at midnight.

1288
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,240
Speaker 1: We came to the same conclusion. One of the interesting

1289
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: things though, is that once we came to that conclusion,

1290
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,200
Speaker 1: the story that we told ourselves was those guys, who

1291
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: knows they were probably lying right. It was comforting to

1292
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:03,880
Speaker 1: think that it was all we did, the right thing.

1293
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,040
Speaker 1: There was no truth there. But I think a couple

1294
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 1: things to just look at in the intervening years is that,

1295
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,480
Speaker 1: obviously there's much more talk now than there was in

1296
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety six about all sorts of stuff going out

1297
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 1: on in space in the up on the Moon. There's

1298
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: obviously been in this New Moon mission with Artemis but

1299
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 1: all of the speculation about what might be going on

1300
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: in space or even up on the Moon has reached

1301
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:32,160
Speaker 1: a crescendo of late And something that happened a couple

1302
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: weeks ago was Gary McKinnon, who was the famous kind

1303
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: of British hacker from I believe the nineties, was arrested

1304
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: when he was just a teenager for hacking into a

1305
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 1: bunch of US intelligence agencies and seeing things that he

1306
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 1: was not supposed to see.

1307
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 3: And there's a whole.

1308
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: Rabbit hole we can go down that we're not going

1309
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: to if you're interested, check it out. He gave an

1310
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: interview recently with Jesse Michaels on American Alchemy. Shout out

1311
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: to Jesse Michaels, love his podcast anyway. In that interview,

1312
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: he says a couple things that actually align with what

1313
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 1: the captain told us, oh so many years ago, and

1314
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,920
Speaker 1: so again, maybe coincidence, but I think it's interesting to

1315
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 1: start comparing some notes. Some of the things he said

1316
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:21,080
Speaker 1: he saw were that he got into Fort Meade, he

1317
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 1: got into the Defense Information System Agency, the DoD networks,

1318
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 1: the Basic Army Networks, the Navy networks, the UASF, the

1319
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:32,560
Speaker 1: US Air Force, networks, and also the Johnson Space Center.

1320
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: This teenager hacked into all of these places was but

1321
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 1: was obviously working with very low speed internet, so he

1322
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: was like trying to download all of this information was

1323
01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:44,240
Speaker 1: going very slowly. But one of the things that he

1324
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 1: saw was he saw from the Johnson Space Center a

1325
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: spreadsheet that was titled non Terrestrial Officers, and it went

1326
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: on to delineate something about that had ship names, and

1327
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: there was a material that was being transferred. There was

1328
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: chemicals like molly b D, denim, strontium, barium, There was

1329
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: all rex sorts of records of ship to ship transfers

1330
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 1: of materials, and for a moment apparently he thought, oh,

1331
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 1: they're talking about US Navy ships. But when he researched it,

1332
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:18,880
Speaker 1: none of these names matched up with actual Navy ships,

1333
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 1: which then implies that there was a whole kind of

1334
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: network of work being done up in space, none of

1335
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 1: which we are aware of or that has been officially

1336
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:32,600
Speaker 1: revealed in any capacity. And so then you're going to

1337
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:35,599
Speaker 1: go down the rabbit hole a little bit and you say, Okay,

1338
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: the captain told us there was mining going on the

1339
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: Moon for some sort of material. When you start looking

1340
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: at these things that he laid out. All of them

1341
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 1: are these rare minerals and elements that are found in

1342
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 1: various quantities up on the moon. So again, is this

1343
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 1: all a coincidence or are these dots starting to be

1344
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:56,679
Speaker 1: connected thirty years later?

1345
01:08:56,920 --> 01:08:59,759
Speaker 3: I'll connect one other dot for you. Yeah, after McKinnon

1346
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:02,880
Speaker 3: got arrested, I'm not sure he was a teenager when

1347
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 3: he did that.

1348
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: I think no, no, I'm sorry he hacked and then he

1349
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:06,519
Speaker 1: was arrested a couple of years later.

1350
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 3: So when he got arrested, and he's a U cases

1351
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 3: and so when he got first arrested, the British were

1352
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 3: looking into it, and they were treating it as it's

1353
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,599
Speaker 3: not as big a deal. But then the British sent

1354
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 3: some people over to talk to the guess what, the

1355
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 3: Office of Naval Intelligence, and they came back quite chastened,

1356
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 3: and the Office of Naval Intelligence was invoked strenuously in

1357
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:35,200
Speaker 3: this thing. So there's O and I again. Now I'm

1358
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,760
Speaker 3: not I don't think either of us are saying that

1359
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,719
Speaker 3: these are clear connections. But I think what interests us,

1360
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 3: both of us, is that for every this O and

1361
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 3: I keeps appearing as the Naval Intelligence name attached to

1362
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 3: secrecy and access and compartmentalization. And it fits right in

1363
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 3: with us being told you got a lot of things right, oh,

1364
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 3: and I and the Navy and yeah, So what is

1365
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 3: the status of Gary McKinnon right now? Based on what

1366
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 3: he told the.

1367
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 1: British government stood their ground and would not allow him

1368
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,160
Speaker 1: to be extradited. So he got in trouble, clearly, But

1369
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 1: he did. I think they were going to put him

1370
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: away for fifty years or something, for seventy f for

1371
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:18,919
Speaker 1: breaching these networks and seeing and getting access to classified information.

1372
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 3: So Jarry McKinnon's not going to Disneyland anytime soon. He'll

1373
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 3: be picked up and arrested anyway.

1374
01:10:26,280 --> 01:10:29,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so there's and there's one last piece of

1375
01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 1: the puzzle that we want to throw out, and it's

1376
01:10:31,479 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: it's possibly the strangest, the most unsettling, and also the

1377
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:38,559
Speaker 1: most speculative. After we had turned down the deal, and

1378
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 1: by the way we turned it down by simply not

1379
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: taking any more phone calls from JC. We just never

1380
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: allowed there to be any further communications. But about probably

1381
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 1: a week or two after the offer to go to

1382
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: the cemetery at midnight, I remember one day coming into

1383
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:58,080
Speaker 1: the dark Sky's office, and my assistant Adam, looked ashen faced,

1384
01:10:58,120 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: and he waited until we were in the office. He

1385
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:01,600
Speaker 1: colt closed the door and he wanted to show me

1386
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:05,440
Speaker 1: something that seemed very important, and it was a newspaper,

1387
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: one of those little newspapers from the West side. I

1388
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: don't remember a west side of Los Angeles. I don't

1389
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: remember which one it was. But he quickly opened it

1390
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,360
Speaker 1: up and he showed me an article about a body

1391
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 1: that had washed ashore down by the Santa Monica Pier

1392
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 1: that had no id on it, but that fit the

1393
01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 1: description of jc OH. And my first thought was, Oh, no,

1394
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 1: he couldn't close the deal, and so they took him out.

1395
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:34,080
Speaker 3: We're alledging that, by the way, this one wasn't. This

1396
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 3: is more speculative than cemeteries at midnight, absolutely, But I think.

1397
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:41,520
Speaker 1: The point of that is that once you get immersed

1398
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 1: in the paranoia of a situation, And by the way,

1399
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of all this, we did start telling

1400
01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:50,040
Speaker 1: more people about cemetery at midnight and all that kind

1401
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: of stuff. So now people were making a show about

1402
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,800
Speaker 1: a cover up, but they were all still feeling part

1403
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 1: of the cover up. So now you have people seeing

1404
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: all sorts of strange things all over the place, and

1405
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 1: your assistant bringing you in stories about somebody showing up

1406
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:06,320
Speaker 1: dead at the Santa Monica Peer. Obviously we have no

1407
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:10,240
Speaker 1: idea if that was JC or what happened to him,

1408
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 1: but it was one of those kind of punctuation marks

1409
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,240
Speaker 1: on the whole thing that just left this sense of

1410
01:12:16,680 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: unsettling mystery, which really explains a whole feeling of JC

1411
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 1: and the captain and the offer and the deal and

1412
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: the formula. It all felt like we were in the

1413
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: twilight Zone.

1414
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:31,320
Speaker 3: I really feel like Rod Sterling should have been narrating

1415
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 3: our dark Sky's experience. I thought you were going to

1416
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:36,880
Speaker 3: tell a slightly different story. And I know we've gone along,

1417
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 3: but I'm I think we'd be remiss not to throw

1418
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:44,759
Speaker 3: this out there. One day after that cemetery, at midnight

1419
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:48,160
Speaker 3: moment and all that, we come to the office and

1420
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 3: John Lear is silling John Bobby. He has come unannounced.

1421
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 3: Now for people who don't know, John Lear was the

1422
01:12:56,479 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 3: son of Bill Lear, who was the famed inventor who

1423
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 3: created the Lear Jet business aircraft and also the eight

1424
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:07,759
Speaker 3: track system. John Lear was a significant player in UFO history,

1425
01:13:07,880 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 3: but he was also a significant pilot was he had

1426
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:14,200
Speaker 3: thousands of flight hours as a pilot. He flew more

1427
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:17,599
Speaker 3: than one hundred aircraft types. He worked as a test pilot,

1428
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 3: He held speed records. He knew everything about aviation. But

1429
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:25,880
Speaker 3: he's also the guy that got famous with his Lear

1430
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 3: hypothesis or the Lear statement where and I'm just going

1431
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,200
Speaker 3: to read you a list of things that he said

1432
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,680
Speaker 3: there and see if they make any if they ring

1433
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 3: any bells. In his statement, John Lear is the guy

1434
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:40,680
Speaker 3: that said alien craft had crashed and been recovered. This

1435
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,360
Speaker 3: is in the late eighties, in the early nineties, so

1436
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:46,360
Speaker 3: a few years before US, but a few years after

1437
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:50,120
Speaker 3: say Bob Lazar. He Lear said bodies had been retrieved.

1438
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 3: Secret treaties existed between the US and extraterrestrials, human abductions

1439
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:59,880
Speaker 3: were occurring, and underground bases were involved in joint pride

1440
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,800
Speaker 3: with non humans. Okay, so back when he was saying

1441
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,560
Speaker 3: this is crazy shit, right, and then he you know,

1442
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,240
Speaker 3: he was talking about reverse engineering, black budgets, all that stuff,

1443
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,479
Speaker 3: and Barry is sitting in our lobby. We weren't expecting him.

1444
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 3: We let him sit in the lobby for a couple

1445
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,639
Speaker 3: of hours because we were like, maybe he'll go away.

1446
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 3: I don't but whatever.

1447
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 1: But Arry, this is the son of the guy who

1448
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:24,800
Speaker 1: invented the lear jet, right, as he said, he's got

1449
01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: like serious credentials, and he's sitting in our lobby for

1450
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 1: several hours because we're too busy to meet with him.

1451
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,080
Speaker 3: The reason I bring it up in this episode, and

1452
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 3: maybe we'll go into more depth later, but he had

1453
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:36,720
Speaker 3: a few things when we did meet with him that

1454
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 3: did happen, and he had some things to say about

1455
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:39,679
Speaker 3: the moon himself.

1456
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,280
Speaker 1: Yes, and his whole stance was the moon is artificial.

1457
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,040
Speaker 1: It's not at all what we've been told. It's in fact,

1458
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: it's a massive artificial structure, and there are hidden civilizations

1459
01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:55,760
Speaker 1: operating beyond Earth utilizing the Moon, and NASA is concealing everything,

1460
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: all of the alien architecture and the mining that is

1461
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: going up on the moon. Again, we have a meeting

1462
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: with JC and the captain where the captain tells us

1463
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:09,320
Speaker 1: it's all about the moon. And then unexpectedly days later,

1464
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 1: a week later, whatever it was, John Lear shows up

1465
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 1: at our office to tell us about what he knows

1466
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 1: about the moon.

1467
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:18,120
Speaker 3: And it's possible that maybe you didn't do this, but

1468
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 3: maybe I didn't treat him with the proper respect because

1469
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 3: I think I was a little done with people coming

1470
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 3: into my office to tell me Moon stories and stuff

1471
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 3: when we had such real responsibilities to get the show out.

1472
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 3: Because and I couldn't find it for this show, but

1473
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 3: maybe I will find it. He wrote me a letter afterwards,

1474
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 3: and it's a pretty critical letter, basically saying, well, I

1475
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 3: guess you guys don't want to know what's really going on.

1476
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 3: You're just too busy making your TV show or whatever.

1477
01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 3: But he came out, we talked to him, and interestingly enough,

1478
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:51,400
Speaker 3: he was Bob Lazar, who was the guy that said

1479
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 3: he worked at Area fifty one and S four. He

1480
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:59,280
Speaker 3: was Bob Lazar's biggest supporter when Lazarre first told his

1481
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 3: story to Jordeap back in nineteen eighty nine. And in

1482
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 3: the latest Bob Lazar documentary which just came out, it's

1483
01:16:07,240 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 3: called S four. One of the recreations based on Bob

1484
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,080
Speaker 3: Lazar's testimony is a document they made him read when

1485
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 3: he first went there, and it's got Office of Naval

1486
01:16:16,479 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 3: Intelligence on it. My mind just signed yes, and I

1487
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:22,559
Speaker 3: think let's wrap this up. I know this has gone long,

1488
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 3: this has been a crazy trip down memory lane. Going

1489
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:27,599
Speaker 3: back to JC. Right, let's hope he's alive.

1490
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:30,200
Speaker 1: In fact, our secret wish is that he is and

1491
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 1: that he's listening to this podcast. And towards that end,

1492
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:36,719
Speaker 1: because we're Hollywood writers, we thought it would be fun

1493
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,479
Speaker 1: to imagine what JC is up to right now, our

1494
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:44,200
Speaker 1: old friend JC. And so we have been writing and

1495
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 1: producing a little micro series called The Deal.

1496
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 3: When we launched a podcast, we don't Know, I Know.

1497
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: And when we launched our podcast, we put out the

1498
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 1: first Deal kind of under the radar. We just put

1499
01:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 1: it out there. It's on YouTube, it's on the Stellar

1500
01:16:58,439 --> 01:16:59,680
Speaker 1: channel and by the.

1501
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:03,639
Speaker 3: Way, people can access at Hollywood UFOs dot com. There

1502
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 3: you go.

1503
01:17:04,080 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: And so the first episode is very short, less than

1504
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:11,479
Speaker 1: a minute, contemplates what would JC do if he heard

1505
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:14,080
Speaker 1: that we were had a podcast and we were telling

1506
01:17:14,120 --> 01:17:17,240
Speaker 1: stories about him. And so we have a six episode

1507
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 1: micro series in mind, the second episode of which we're

1508
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: going to leave you with, and we encourage you now

1509
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:25,160
Speaker 1: to go back watch the first episode second and they'll

1510
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:27,639
Speaker 1: be running in parallel with the rest of the season,

1511
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 1: and we promise you that by the time you get

1512
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,880
Speaker 1: to the sixth episode, it'll all fold back on itself

1513
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 1: and you'll have a fun little ride.

1514
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:36,800
Speaker 3: Why don't we just let's play that right now and

1515
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:48,360
Speaker 3: then come back for a goodbye. We have a problem.

1516
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:50,480
Speaker 3: Dark Skies is back on radar.

1517
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:53,920
Speaker 2: Have a real life man in black, and he tells

1518
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 2: us that he's been sent by the Office of Naval Intelligence.

1519
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 2: That deal was to be part of the government's slow

1520
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:03,960
Speaker 2: drip disclosure program around UFOs.

1521
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:05,559
Speaker 3: Never told me you were ow and I back then,

1522
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:09,280
Speaker 3: is it theired yet? Not un till February nineteenth. It's

1523
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,599
Speaker 3: called sound, light and frequency, of course it is.

1524
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:13,519
Speaker 1: It's from iHeart, so it'll be everywhere.

1525
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 3: But we have resources use them. Okay, that was fun. Okay,

1526
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 3: here's what I've enjoyed about doing those things. Brent, And

1527
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 3: I don't know if everyone will get our sense of

1528
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:29,479
Speaker 3: humor or our sense of drama or whatever. But I

1529
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 3: have always wondered, and I'm sure you have from time

1530
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 3: to time, what would have happened if we took the

1531
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:39,479
Speaker 3: deal back in nineteen ninety six. Would we have been killed,

1532
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 3: would we have been brought inside? Would we have had

1533
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 3: a tom DeLong done on us? I don't know what

1534
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:47,559
Speaker 3: would have happened. So It's a nice little thing to

1535
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:50,800
Speaker 3: see these things being made. We've had several friends say

1536
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 3: to me, why are you poking the bear? You want

1537
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,439
Speaker 3: this guy to come back into your life, And I

1538
01:18:55,479 --> 01:18:57,560
Speaker 3: will say, right here and now, at this point in

1539
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 3: my life, I'm ready to talk about the deal. I'm

1540
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 3: not ready to sign anything yet, but I'm ready to

1541
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 3: have some more deeper conversations about the deal.

1542
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: So I hope that Jac is out there listening, and Jac,

1543
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:10,400
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this podcast right now, get in

1544
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 1: touch with us.

1545
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I would just say, my kids are all

1546
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 3: growing up, so I have an open mind about it. Now,

1547
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:23,599
Speaker 3: there you go. Sound Light and Frequency is an iHeart

1548
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 3: podcast produced by Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick

1549
01:19:27,600 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 3: Johnson and for Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was

1550
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:34,599
Speaker 3: written by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lighthouser, and Your hosts

1551
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:38,400
Speaker 3: and executive producers are Brice Abel, That's me and Brent Friedman.

1552
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 3: Watch the Skies

1553
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 2: P