WEBVTT - Every Body Has A Story 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.480 you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.680 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.919 your podcasts. This is the story of a man who's 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:15.280 fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:18.600 a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:21.720 built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:26.440 during the Depression, but today not many people know about him. 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.640 The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:33.480 this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:39.280 the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.600 I'm Free and I'm rthy. We have spent the last 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.640 twenty years building and working at some of the largest 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.640 companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people. 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:51.360 Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:53.840 grew up exactly like them. Check out the Arthi and 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:58.840 Trrom show. That is a R D HI and s 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:03.200 R I R A M show. Listen to the acdaanstry 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:07.120 On show on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast Oh, whenever 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:12.600 you get to your podcast, what stands out to me 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:18.320 is just the sheer massiveness of this thing and the 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:23.360 absolute metality in this thing. These were real human beings 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.360 who lost their lives and it's not just what happened 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:29.680 to them, but they were actual people. Legal fireworks erupted 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.600 in court as George Wagner, the Force attorneys try to 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.760 put a sudden end to his trial in the Pike 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:39.040 County massacre, we would ask for this trial basically cruso 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:44.040 photos and shown to the three. He knows these photographs 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.280 from coming. So I don't know how much of this 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:50.400 was rooted in legal practice and how much of it 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:59.520 is rooted in theatrics. This is the Pike to Mascar 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:06.200 Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode seven, Everybody Has 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:11.760 a Story. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.960 Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's the middle 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:19.120 of George Wagner the Fourth's trial, and it's important to 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.799 note that he has pleaded not guilty and has maintained 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.560 he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.280 trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:35.040 Hours of testimony from investigators and relatives has painted a 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.720 very real portrait of what the crime scenes look like. 0:03:38.800 --> 0:03:41.200 But on this day of the trial, no one could 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:47.760 have imagined the gruesomeness they would face. Listener warning, This 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:52.120 episode covers a particularly graphic portion of the court testimony. 0:03:53.000 --> 0:04:00.400 Discretion is strongly advised from the fetter. When you were 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:02.320 about to go showing the truth, the whole truth and 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:04.600 nothing but the truth, did you show answer? Unto god? 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:09.320 I do? Prosecutor Anti Kneppa and her team called doctor 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:13.560 Karen Lumin to the stand. Luman is a forensic pathologist 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:19.159 who carried out autopsies on all eight of the victims. Wednesday, 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.320 she talked about examining Chris Sen, your son Frankie Rodin 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.080 and as fiance Hannah Gilly. Both were found shot to 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:28.720 death in their bed inside a mobile home, with their 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:33.200 infant son left alive between them. The eight deceased members 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.680 of the Roden family were discovered on a Friday. Once 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:40.599 investigators for BCI were done processing the crime scenes, the 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:45.039 bodies were removed and transported for autopsy. And that you 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:51.359 did the females first on April twenty third. That seems Saturday, Yes, okay? 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.880 And would you have done that first thing in the morning? 0:04:55.640 --> 0:05:02.600 Yes okay? And what time is six o seven am? 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.640 Here's James Pilcher, longcome investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.520 Local twelve. She got the call first thing Saturday morning. 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:14.240 She starts in she had to do eight autopsies in 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:18.279 three days, but she actually did three on one day, 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.760 and then another four on another day, and then another 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.880 one on Monday. And these weren't just you're running the 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:34.080 mill autopsies. I don't know what she must have gone 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.040 through that weekend. And knowing they're all one family, we're 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:40.800 all like talking amongst ourselves, how are we going to 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.480 handle our own mental health through all of this? I 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:50.480 can imagine what she's going through. Here's forensic medical examiner 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:55.160 Joseph Scott Morgan. You're talking about multiple gunshot wounds and 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:59.240 lots of evidence, trace evidence. To recover each one of 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.840 these autopsy would have taken a couple of hours because 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:10.680 it would have been X rays, external photographs, removal of clothing, 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:15.320 searching for trace evidence on the clothing in place, documentation 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.120 of the clothing, documentation of the holes in the clothing, 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.000 the defects and the clothing, the bloodstains on the clothing, 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.640 all of those measurements, and we haven't even made it 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.720 to the body yet. Just let that sink in. So 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.520 can you imagine how exhausting this would be and how 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:36.400 draining this is psychically? Based on a quick review of 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.520 doctor Lemon's work. She does not shy away from emotionally 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.960 challenging cases. She has performed autopsies and testified in many 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:48.400 murder trials, including those of toddlers. On the stand, she 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.720 appears relaxed and direct. Can you tell us what we 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:57.800 are looking at the This is a photograph of Hannah 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:01.640 Hazel as we opened the body bag. That's a picture 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.280 of Hannah's chest showing her bra and she has a 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:09.800 maternity bra and the hooks for the front of the 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.760 bra are open and her breast is exposed in that, yes, photograph. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.360 And do you see livermortis in that picture? There is 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:26.640 some livermortis in the picture. Yes, here again, Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.760 when you begin to think about libra mortis is probably 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.640 one of the most solid fallback positions when it comes 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:38.120 to judging postmortem interval. And the reason is is that 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:44.280 it's totally gravitationally dependent. It's not impacted by temperature. Sadly, 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:49.120 the blood is impacted only only by gravity, so the 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:53.840 blood will actually pool in the lowest depended area. And 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:57.400 it's very simple to explain. Just just think for a moment, 0:07:57.480 --> 0:08:00.760 if you've got a cup of water. If you pour 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.720 that cup of water out into the sink, well, what's 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.600 it going to seek. It's going to seek the lowest 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:07.640 point of gravity, and in the case of the sink, 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.400 it's going to be the drain. So just imagine, if 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.360 you will, there's a body lying flat, which we would 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:19.080 call the suphine position line, flat on the back, face upwards. Well, 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:24.320 the blood is going to pool into those dependent regions 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.080 in the back on the posterior. We can tell how 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:32.240 long someone has been down within two to three hours essentially, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.720 when we apply all of these components, whether it's the 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.960 rigidity of the body, the temperature of the body, and 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:43.440 more specifically the postmorum mobility to settling the blood. Can 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:45.680 you tell us if the liver mortist that you see 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.400 in that is consistent with her laying mostly on her 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.800 stomach kind of to the right side, on the right, yes, 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.120 on the right side, yes. About what parts of the 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:58.360 body did you notice injuries too? I'm miss Gilly Hannah 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:01.840 Hazel head injuries only to her head? How many gunshot 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:08.360 winds did Hannah Hazel have? Five lumin examines an X 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:12.480 ray of Hannah Hazel Gilly's head and explains you can 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.440 see the round orbits where the eyes are. You can 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.640 see where teeth are at the bottom, and then you 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:24.880 can see four relatively larger white radio opaque things on 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.680 the right side of the head. Those are bigger bullets. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.920 They are deformed, so you see their funny different shapes. 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.160 They're deformed because they struck the bone. And then you 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.960 see there's tins of little pieces of metal above those 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.040 four pieces. And on the other side by the left eye, 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:47.680 those are all tin of little fragments of bullet. Joseph 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.280 Scott Morgan. You know they won't show certain photographs in court, 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.720 or they'll because the defense will say they're prejudicial. One 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.200 of the most beautiful things that you can do is 0:09:56.200 --> 0:10:00.120 show X rays. Because X rays don't have blood, they 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.680 don't have gore. You don't see bodies blown apart. You 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.240 might see fractured bone, but it's black and white. And 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.560 then anything that is radio opaque, you see that, and 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.480 suddenly the snowstorm appears before you and they look like 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:16.000 little white dots everywhere, and those are fragments of bullets, 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.720 and that is powerful when the jury looks at that, 0:10:19.040 --> 0:10:21.719 and everybody knows their brain is in the top part 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.959 of their head, inside of their skull, and you see it. 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.040 You know, white bulb goes off and said, oh my god, 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.240 look in the brain. You can see the little dots 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.920 where all of that the bullet fragment, and just rip 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:40.400 this body to shreds. But photographic evidence follows warning. Some 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:45.959 of this discussion is incredibly graphic. In that photograph, I'm 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:50.000 looking at her left eye. There's some clotted blood that 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.480 you see along the margin of her eye. The blood 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.600 that's in her mouth is not an injury. It's blood 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:02.400 that's there because of the fractures to the skull. It 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.240 actually fractures the sinus bones and then the sinuses bleed 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.520 down the back of the throat passively. Okay, and it 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.720 almost looks like her tooth is black, But that's actually 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:17.440 blood that's clouded blood. Yes, there are a lot of 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.880 people that you know, want to turn a blind eye 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:24.040 to the horror of this. You cannot escape it. There's 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.439 no way to, you know, church this up. Within the 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:31.800 context of the graphic detail lies the story, and you know, 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.120 people as desperately as they want to turn away from it, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.320 you have to stare at it. You have to stare 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.240 at it and assess it. You have to get past 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.520 the horror of it. But you have to understand this. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:52.439 Every person that died deserves deserves to have their story told. 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:57.840 I think that it is unmanagable for the family. Hearing 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:02.760 this graphic testimony from the corner, and also hearing Joseph 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.240 Morgan's take on it, we forget they too are human 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:11.160 beings who were seeing carnage and blood and bodies so regularly. 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.520 We assume anybody who works in this space get used 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.120 to seeing in that level of gore. But that's simply 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:24.920 not the case here. Again, Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa, you 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.199 have an opinion as to whether or not her eye 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.880 would have been opened or closed at the time that 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.920 she was shot her eyes because it at least got 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:38.000 part of her eyelids. I believe her eyelids were mostly closed. 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.560 The fact that it didn't get the upper eyelid, it 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:43.080 could be. You know, some people sleep with their eyes 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.320 slightly open. It could be that our eyes are slightly open. 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:49.320 It could also be their eyes are fully open and 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.760 it only got the bottom lid, so it did not 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.439 go through the top eyelids. That's correct, So I can't 0:12:57.440 --> 0:13:01.640 tell technically if she was asleep or awake. And did 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:05.400 you ultimately or can you tell us what distance did 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:09.600 you determine that was because we could see stipling, that's 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:13.960 an intermediate gunshot wound. Okay. And that intermediate again, is 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.520 that three inches to three feet dish range? Yes? And 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:22.000 do you have an opinion as to the effect that 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.640 would have had on Hannah Hazel? Yes? And what is 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:30.200 that opinion? She would have been immediately unconscious, okay? And 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.679 why do you say that the bullet not only causes injury, 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:39.240 but there's also kinetic energy that travels with the bullets. 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:42.320 It's shaking up the brain. It takes a lot to 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.280 break the bones in the skull too. There's a lot 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:50.160 of concussion trauma. So not only is it damaging her eye, 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.640 but the brain is damaged as well, and so she 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.440 would become unconscious. This is only the description of the 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.679 first gunshot. The bullet ended up in the frontal lobe 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.120 of the brain. You can also see she's got some 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.320 blood coming from her left ear. That's a sign that 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.920 the bones inside the head, especially the bone where your 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.640 inner ear, is broken, then you bleed outside your ear, 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.240 So that's what you're seeing Caneppa and Luman go through 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.880 each individual round, all five shots, and the damage each 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:27.200 bullet did to Hannah Hazel Gilly's body. Here's legal analyst 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.440 Mike Allen. What stands out to me is just the 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:37.000 absolute brutality of this thing. I mean, it's stunning how 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.440 brutal it is. Shot in the face. I mean, testimony 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:46.840 about a baby nursing at his mother's breast and she's shot. 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.040 I mean, you think about Hannah laying in bed with 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:56.800 that child, and just the pravity of someone doing that. 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:03.320 It's really hard to imagine. All in all, doctor Luman 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.720 extracted four bullets from Hannah Hazel's head. The fifth grazed 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:10.560 her skull, creating a hole and a partial bullet wound. 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:17.480 During testimony, reporter James Pilcher reported live from outside the courtroom. 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.760 Frankie was shot three times in the head. Earlier Wednesday, 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.560 Todd Fordner with the Oha Bureau of Criminal Investigation finished 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.200 testifying about processing that crime scene on Union Hill Road, 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:34.240 saying he found five spent shelf casings in the couple's bedroom. 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:37.160 Frankie Rodin was lying in bed with Hannah Hazel Gilly 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.720 a pair of blue boxer shorts the only clothing he 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:45.080 was wearing. They were soaked with blood. Doctor Luman holds 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:47.840 up a paper bag with this evidence inside, but does 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:52.120 not open it. She then picks up a box. This 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.240 is our bullet box where we put all of the 0:15:55.320 --> 0:16:02.120 projectiles in. I have it labeled from the head for Frankie, 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.880 and those represent the projectiles that you recovered from the 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:10.600 head of Frankie Roding on eight twenty four, sixteen. And 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.720 can you tell us did you notice any differences or 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.560 similarities between those projectiles and the projectiles that you recovered 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:22.440 from Hannah Hazel Gilly. Yes, Frankie was lying face up 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.240 and was shot through the cheek, left temple and air. 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.840 Hannah Hazel was at his side facing him. The shooter 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.160 came into their room, facing the left side of the 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.920 bed and opened fire. Despite the graphic nature of the 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:40.120 work at hand, there were only positive reviews of Luman's testimony. 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.080 Here again, James Pilcher, I can tell you, at least 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:49.360 from the feedback I've gotten from watching her, that she 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.960 has really a lot of respect in the community for 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.240 the respect she's treated the victims in their bodies and 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:01.080 the autopsy and everything else. But the next morning. It's 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:05.600 not Luman's testimony that is making news. Legal fireworks are 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.720 upted in court as George Wagner, the Force attorneys trying 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.679 to put a sudden end to his trial and the 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:15.120 Pike County massacre. We would ask for a mistrial based 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.080 on gruesome photos that have been shown to the jury. 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:26.560 Photos are only missile, irrelevant, and pot of disputation. George 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.080 Wagner's defense attorney, John Parker claims continuing to show the 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:34.280 jury gruesome photos of the crime scenes and autopsies is inflammatory, 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.960 specifically since the actual facts of how the victims died 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:43.000 are not in question. We're going to take a break. 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:49.280 We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:52.560 and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.520 in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of 0:17:55.600 --> 0:18:00.119 us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:06.080 spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.400 was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:15.480 He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.960 Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:24.000 time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for bob Us 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.960 girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:30.480 pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.119 I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.480 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.320 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.359 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:45.040 the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:49.639 you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney hell is 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.639 going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.600 a situation like this. I just thought it was just 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:58.959 a really terrible immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.600 I was, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.879 You may never have to face that decision when you 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.600 find yourself at that line. Thoughts ricin, arn't ricin, And 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:13.280 somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.879 like this is evil and the only person who can 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.240 sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:26.840 sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.320 If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:32.440 speak out disgrace to our cut. Evil play should be 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:38.760 prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.600 I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:52.720 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:57.080 Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of 0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.000 The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my wart winning 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.320 first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.680 toatch incredible guests about important things. People like me have 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.520 been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.000 What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.000 They will take things away. And I can only hope 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.760 that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, You 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:21.240 and I both know what it took to just get 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.480 through the day in New York City and get home 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.480 in one piece. And so the fact that we're here 0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.280 and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.800 that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.400 The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.000 that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:42.760 And we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.680 Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:54.400 get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share How Rude. 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:57.119 Tanta Rito's is the Full House rewatch podcast you've been 0:20:57.160 --> 0:21:00.880 waiting for. Each week, get together with iconic characters Stephanie 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.840 Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler, also known as actresses Jody Sweeten 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:07.760 and Andrea Barber, as they team up to relive every 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:11.120 episode of your favorite Friday night comfort show. We spent 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.080 our entire childhoods on a little show called Full House, 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.760 playing frenemies but becoming besties whenever the cameras weren't rolling, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.760 and now thirty five years later, it's our biggest adventure yet. 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:23.440 Get ready for Jody and Andrea to tell all as 0:21:23.480 --> 0:21:25.560 they take an in depth book back at life in 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.640 and around the Tanner Home from the very very beginning. 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:31.159 So if you think you know everything there is to 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:35.120 know about Full House, How Rude, We'll be reliving every 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:37.320 moment with you, and we'll be joined by our Full 0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.920 House family, including all your favorites from one hundred and 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:42.760 ninety two episodes. We'll reveal the hidden treasures you may 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:44.640 have missed within the show, and we'll take a trip 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.720 down memory lane together. Listen to how Rude Tannertos on 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.240 the iHeartRadio appable podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:03.080 Here's Jeff speaking with James Pilcher. The defense is asking 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:04.920 for a Mistriald, What do you make of that? Is 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.400 that its something that's valid? Could they possibly get one? 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:11.919 They are pulling every trick in the book that they 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.879 can to try to get this to start over, to 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.520 delay it, to get the juryman to do whatever. The 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.560 latest thing. They don't want the prosecution to be able 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:27.200 to show the pictures up on the screen. Here again, 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:32.320 Joseph Morgan. What is kind of out of left field 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:34.720 is the idea that the defense attorney would ask for 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:39.160 a mistrial based on the nature of the photographs. Most 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.120 of the time that that kind of stuff is handled 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:46.240 in pre trial motion. You come to an agreement as 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.159 to what photography is going to be used, and in 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:53.480 the free child motions, there'll be a hearing. And they 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:56.399 knew this was coming. This is not like this just 0:22:56.560 --> 0:22:59.479 fell from the heavens and they're unaware. He know that's 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:02.840 these photogram coming, So I don't know how much of 0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:07.080 this was rooted in legal practice and how much of 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:13.680 it is rooted in the address. It appears that Judge 0:23:13.720 --> 0:23:18.560 Deering agrees with the request for a mistriald denied. The 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:22.680 prosecution moves on to crime scene three, the home where 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:27.240 Dana Roden, Hanname Roden, and Chris Roden Jr. Were killed. 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:34.200 The prosecution recalled BCI special agent Todd Fortner to the stand. 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.960 Fortner had already testified earlier in the trial about evidence 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:44.040 at Chris Senior and Gary's trailer. He took many of 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:48.399 the photographs at Frankie Roden's house as well. When nicought 0:23:48.400 --> 0:23:51.159 the eye of both the prosecution and defense. Was an 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:54.639 open window on the backside of the home. If you 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:56.680 look at States and did at B one thirty five, 0:23:57.320 --> 0:23:59.879 you testified about that air conditioner that appeared to have 0:24:00.200 --> 0:24:02.240 some grass on it out back. Can you see that 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:05.280 air conditioner in that picture? Yes, just outside the window. 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:10.280 The back of Frankie Roden's home has two windows. The 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:13.200 open window in questions it's about five to six feet 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.639 up from the ground with two HVAC units below. In 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.399 interior photos are shown next show the jury where that 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:23.720 pictures taken from the what you're de packing in that picture. 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:28.120 This again from the doorway here looking into the bedroom. 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:32.520 You can see the clutter and the open window. Here 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:37.159 Stephanie looking at these photographs and picturing this room and 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:40.760 where these windows are. An interesting detail too, I thought 0:24:41.080 --> 0:24:44.320 was that there was a bathtub and they must have 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:48.080 been raising baby chicks because to keep them warm, there 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:51.000 were little wood chips in the bathtub where the chicks 0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:55.080 were growing. And right beside that there was you know, 0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:59.600 a toddler's packing play, which we've all seen before, just 0:24:59.720 --> 0:25:03.520 kind to a hunting image against the grizzliness that took 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:07.000 place soon after. Also, you know, it raises the question 0:25:07.119 --> 0:25:09.560 there was so much stuff in and around where the 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:11.919 windows are, it seems like it would have been very 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:16.200 clumsy to get through that window, specially agent Todd Fortner. 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:20.680 And when you initially viewed that picture, did you think 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:23.800 it was unlikely that anybody had come through that window? Yes, 0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:25.960 so I felt it was less likely that someone came 0:25:26.000 --> 0:25:30.320 in without disturbing some of these items. However, it was 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:35.239 not impossible, Okay, so clearly somebody could have come through 0:25:35.320 --> 0:25:37.840 that window. But based on the way that those items 0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:41.639 appeared nothing was knock over or disturbed or upside down. 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:46.879 That correct. Correct. He gave it some thought and listened 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:51.119 very carefully, and he opined that he didn't believe that 0:25:51.200 --> 0:25:53.320 that was case. He said, it's not off the table. 0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:58.080 But you know the space is so tight this window. 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:01.440 You know that you would gain acts through and there 0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:05.439 is no underlying area to kind of leverage yourself up 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:09.440 all into the one to seal. The defense tries to 0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:13.120 drive a wedge between the certainty of the prosecution and Fortner, 0:26:13.560 --> 0:26:16.719