1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 18 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 19 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: your podcasts. This is the story of a man who's 20 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's 21 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: a name you don't forget. He was a visionary who 22 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow 23 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: during the Depression, but today not many people know about him. 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: The race sort of wiped out, and I wonder if 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on 26 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, 27 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: I'm Free and I'm rthy. We have spent the last 28 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: twenty years building and working at some of the largest 29 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: companies in the world. We worked with some remarkable people. 30 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: Rob mcalinney. When I see the people of Wrexham, I 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: grew up exactly like them. Check out the Arthi and 32 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: Trrom show. That is a R D HI and s 33 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: R I R A M show. Listen to the acdaanstry 34 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: On show on the iHeartRadio app Apple podcast Oh, whenever 35 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: you get to your podcast, what stands out to me 36 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: is just the sheer massiveness of this thing and the 37 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: absolute metality in this thing. These were real human beings 38 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 1: who lost their lives and it's not just what happened 39 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: to them, but they were actual people. Legal fireworks erupted 40 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: in court as George Wagner, the Force attorneys try to 41 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: put a sudden end to his trial in the Pike 42 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: County massacre, we would ask for this trial basically cruso 43 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: photos and shown to the three. He knows these photographs 44 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: from coming. So I don't know how much of this 45 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: was rooted in legal practice and how much of it 46 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: is rooted in theatrics. This is the Pike to Mascar 47 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: Returned to Pike County Season four, Episode seven, Everybody Has 48 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: a Story. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie 49 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: Studios with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's the middle 50 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: of George Wagner the Fourth's trial, and it's important to 51 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: note that he has pleaded not guilty and has maintained 52 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: he did not kill anyone. His father, Billy Wagner, whose 53 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: trial is upcoming, has also pleaded not guilty to all charges. 54 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: Hours of testimony from investigators and relatives has painted a 55 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: very real portrait of what the crime scenes look like. 56 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: But on this day of the trial, no one could 57 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: have imagined the gruesomeness they would face. Listener warning, This 58 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: episode covers a particularly graphic portion of the court testimony. 59 00:03:53,000 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: Discretion is strongly advised from the fetter. When you were 60 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: about to go showing the truth, the whole truth and 61 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: nothing but the truth, did you show answer? Unto god? 62 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 1: I do? Prosecutor Anti Kneppa and her team called doctor 63 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: Karen Lumin to the stand. Luman is a forensic pathologist 64 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: who carried out autopsies on all eight of the victims. Wednesday, 65 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: she talked about examining Chris Sen, your son Frankie Rodin 66 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: and as fiance Hannah Gilly. Both were found shot to 67 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 1: death in their bed inside a mobile home, with their 68 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: infant son left alive between them. The eight deceased members 69 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: of the Roden family were discovered on a Friday. Once 70 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: investigators for BCI were done processing the crime scenes, the 71 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: bodies were removed and transported for autopsy. And that you 72 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: did the females first on April twenty third. That seems Saturday, Yes, okay? 73 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: And would you have done that first thing in the morning? 74 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: Yes okay? And what time is six o seven am? 75 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: Here's James Pilcher, longcome investigative reporter in Cincinnati now with 76 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: Local twelve. She got the call first thing Saturday morning. 77 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: She starts in she had to do eight autopsies in 78 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: three days, but she actually did three on one day, 79 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: and then another four on another day, and then another 80 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: one on Monday. And these weren't just you're running the 81 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: mill autopsies. I don't know what she must have gone 82 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: through that weekend. And knowing they're all one family, we're 83 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: all like talking amongst ourselves, how are we going to 84 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: handle our own mental health through all of this? I 85 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: can imagine what she's going through. Here's forensic medical examiner 86 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan. You're talking about multiple gunshot wounds and 87 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: lots of evidence, trace evidence. To recover each one of 88 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: these autopsy would have taken a couple of hours because 89 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 1: it would have been X rays, external photographs, removal of clothing, 90 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: searching for trace evidence on the clothing in place, documentation 91 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: of the clothing, documentation of the holes in the clothing, 92 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: the defects and the clothing, the bloodstains on the clothing, 93 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: all of those measurements, and we haven't even made it 94 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: to the body yet. Just let that sink in. So 95 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: can you imagine how exhausting this would be and how 96 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: draining this is psychically? Based on a quick review of 97 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: doctor Lemon's work. She does not shy away from emotionally 98 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: challenging cases. She has performed autopsies and testified in many 99 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: murder trials, including those of toddlers. On the stand, she 100 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: appears relaxed and direct. Can you tell us what we 101 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: are looking at the This is a photograph of Hannah 102 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: Hazel as we opened the body bag. That's a picture 103 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: of Hannah's chest showing her bra and she has a 104 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: maternity bra and the hooks for the front of the 105 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: bra are open and her breast is exposed in that, yes, photograph. 106 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: And do you see livermortis in that picture? There is 107 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: some livermortis in the picture. Yes, here again, Joseph Scott Morgan. Well, 108 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: when you begin to think about libra mortis is probably 109 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: one of the most solid fallback positions when it comes 110 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: to judging postmortem interval. And the reason is is that 111 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: it's totally gravitationally dependent. It's not impacted by temperature. Sadly, 112 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: the blood is impacted only only by gravity, so the 113 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: blood will actually pool in the lowest depended area. And 114 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: it's very simple to explain. Just just think for a moment, 115 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: if you've got a cup of water. If you pour 116 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: that cup of water out into the sink, well, what's 117 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: it going to seek. It's going to seek the lowest 118 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: point of gravity, and in the case of the sink, 119 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: it's going to be the drain. So just imagine, if 120 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: you will, there's a body lying flat, which we would 121 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: call the suphine position line, flat on the back, face upwards. Well, 122 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: the blood is going to pool into those dependent regions 123 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: in the back on the posterior. We can tell how 124 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 1: long someone has been down within two to three hours essentially, 125 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: when we apply all of these components, whether it's the 126 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: rigidity of the body, the temperature of the body, and 127 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: more specifically the postmorum mobility to settling the blood. Can 128 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: you tell us if the liver mortist that you see 129 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: in that is consistent with her laying mostly on her 130 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: stomach kind of to the right side, on the right, yes, 131 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: on the right side, yes. About what parts of the 132 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: body did you notice injuries too? I'm miss Gilly Hannah 133 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: Hazel head injuries only to her head? How many gunshot 134 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: winds did Hannah Hazel have? Five lumin examines an X 135 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: ray of Hannah Hazel Gilly's head and explains you can 136 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: see the round orbits where the eyes are. You can 137 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: see where teeth are at the bottom, and then you 138 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: can see four relatively larger white radio opaque things on 139 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: the right side of the head. Those are bigger bullets. 140 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: They are deformed, so you see their funny different shapes. 141 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: They're deformed because they struck the bone. And then you 142 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 1: see there's tins of little pieces of metal above those 143 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: four pieces. And on the other side by the left eye, 144 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: those are all tin of little fragments of bullet. Joseph 145 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. You know they won't show certain photographs in court, 146 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: or they'll because the defense will say they're prejudicial. One 147 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: of the most beautiful things that you can do is 148 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: show X rays. Because X rays don't have blood, they 149 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: don't have gore. You don't see bodies blown apart. You 150 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: might see fractured bone, but it's black and white. And 151 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: then anything that is radio opaque, you see that, and 152 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: suddenly the snowstorm appears before you and they look like 153 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: little white dots everywhere, and those are fragments of bullets, 154 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: and that is powerful when the jury looks at that, 155 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,719 Speaker 1: and everybody knows their brain is in the top part 156 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: of their head, inside of their skull, and you see it. 157 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 1: You know, white bulb goes off and said, oh my god, 158 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: look in the brain. You can see the little dots 159 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 1: where all of that the bullet fragment, and just rip 160 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: this body to shreds. But photographic evidence follows warning. Some 161 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:45,959 Speaker 1: of this discussion is incredibly graphic. In that photograph, I'm 162 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: looking at her left eye. There's some clotted blood that 163 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: you see along the margin of her eye. The blood 164 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: that's in her mouth is not an injury. It's blood 165 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: that's there because of the fractures to the skull. It 166 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: actually fractures the sinus bones and then the sinuses bleed 167 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: down the back of the throat passively. Okay, and it 168 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: almost looks like her tooth is black, But that's actually 169 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: blood that's clouded blood. Yes, there are a lot of 170 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: people that you know, want to turn a blind eye 171 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: to the horror of this. You cannot escape it. There's 172 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: no way to, you know, church this up. Within the 173 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: context of the graphic detail lies the story, and you know, 174 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: people as desperately as they want to turn away from it, 175 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: you have to stare at it. You have to stare 176 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: at it and assess it. You have to get past 177 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: the horror of it. But you have to understand this. 178 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: Every person that died deserves deserves to have their story told. 179 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: I think that it is unmanagable for the family. Hearing 180 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: this graphic testimony from the corner, and also hearing Joseph 181 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: Morgan's take on it, we forget they too are human 182 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: beings who were seeing carnage and blood and bodies so regularly. 183 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: We assume anybody who works in this space get used 184 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: to seeing in that level of gore. But that's simply 185 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: not the case here. Again, Special Prosecutor Angie Kneppa, you 186 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: have an opinion as to whether or not her eye 187 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: would have been opened or closed at the time that 188 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: she was shot her eyes because it at least got 189 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: part of her eyelids. I believe her eyelids were mostly closed. 190 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 1: The fact that it didn't get the upper eyelid, it 191 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: could be. You know, some people sleep with their eyes 192 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: slightly open. It could be that our eyes are slightly open. 193 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: It could also be their eyes are fully open and 194 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: it only got the bottom lid, so it did not 195 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: go through the top eyelids. That's correct, So I can't 196 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: tell technically if she was asleep or awake. And did 197 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: you ultimately or can you tell us what distance did 198 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: you determine that was because we could see stipling, that's 199 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: an intermediate gunshot wound. Okay. And that intermediate again, is 200 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: that three inches to three feet dish range? Yes? And 201 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: do you have an opinion as to the effect that 202 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: would have had on Hannah Hazel? Yes? And what is 203 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: that opinion? She would have been immediately unconscious, okay? And 204 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: why do you say that the bullet not only causes injury, 205 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: but there's also kinetic energy that travels with the bullets. 206 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: It's shaking up the brain. It takes a lot to 207 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: break the bones in the skull too. There's a lot 208 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: of concussion trauma. So not only is it damaging her eye, 209 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: but the brain is damaged as well, and so she 210 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: would become unconscious. This is only the description of the 211 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: first gunshot. The bullet ended up in the frontal lobe 212 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: of the brain. You can also see she's got some 213 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: blood coming from her left ear. That's a sign that 214 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: the bones inside the head, especially the bone where your 215 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: inner ear, is broken, then you bleed outside your ear, 216 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: So that's what you're seeing Caneppa and Luman go through 217 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: each individual round, all five shots, and the damage each 218 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: bullet did to Hannah Hazel Gilly's body. Here's legal analyst 219 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: Mike Allen. What stands out to me is just the 220 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: absolute brutality of this thing. I mean, it's stunning how 221 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: brutal it is. Shot in the face. I mean, testimony 222 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: about a baby nursing at his mother's breast and she's shot. 223 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: I mean, you think about Hannah laying in bed with 224 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: that child, and just the pravity of someone doing that. 225 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: It's really hard to imagine. All in all, doctor Luman 226 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: extracted four bullets from Hannah Hazel's head. The fifth grazed 227 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: her skull, creating a hole and a partial bullet wound. 228 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: During testimony, reporter James Pilcher reported live from outside the courtroom. 229 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: Frankie was shot three times in the head. Earlier Wednesday, 230 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: Todd Fordner with the Oha Bureau of Criminal Investigation finished 231 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: testifying about processing that crime scene on Union Hill Road, 232 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: saying he found five spent shelf casings in the couple's bedroom. 233 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: Frankie Rodin was lying in bed with Hannah Hazel Gilly 234 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: a pair of blue boxer shorts the only clothing he 235 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: was wearing. They were soaked with blood. Doctor Luman holds 236 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: up a paper bag with this evidence inside, but does 237 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: not open it. She then picks up a box. This 238 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: is our bullet box where we put all of the 239 00:15:55,320 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: projectiles in. I have it labeled from the head for Frankie, 240 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 1: and those represent the projectiles that you recovered from the 241 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 1: head of Frankie Roding on eight twenty four, sixteen. And 242 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: can you tell us did you notice any differences or 243 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: similarities between those projectiles and the projectiles that you recovered 244 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: from Hannah Hazel Gilly. Yes, Frankie was lying face up 245 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: and was shot through the cheek, left temple and air. 246 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: Hannah Hazel was at his side facing him. The shooter 247 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: came into their room, facing the left side of the 248 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: bed and opened fire. Despite the graphic nature of the 249 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: work at hand, there were only positive reviews of Luman's testimony. 250 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: Here again, James Pilcher, I can tell you, at least 251 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: from the feedback I've gotten from watching her, that she 252 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: has really a lot of respect in the community for 253 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: the respect she's treated the victims in their bodies and 254 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 1: the autopsy and everything else. But the next morning. It's 255 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: not Luman's testimony that is making news. Legal fireworks are 256 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: upted in court as George Wagner, the Force attorneys trying 257 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: to put a sudden end to his trial and the 258 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: Pike County massacre. We would ask for a mistrial based 259 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: on gruesome photos that have been shown to the jury. 260 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: Photos are only missile, irrelevant, and pot of disputation. George 261 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: Wagner's defense attorney, John Parker claims continuing to show the 262 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: jury gruesome photos of the crime scenes and autopsies is inflammatory, 263 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: specifically since the actual facts of how the victims died 264 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: are not in question. We're going to take a break. 265 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, 266 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back 267 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of 268 00:17:55,600 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He 269 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he 270 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 271 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted into the point she went unconscious. 272 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 273 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for bob Us 274 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 275 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 276 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 277 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 278 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 279 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 280 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 1: the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever 281 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney hell is 282 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted 283 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just 284 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,959 Speaker 1: a really terrible immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 285 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: I was, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 286 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you 287 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thoughts ricin, arn't ricin, And 288 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: somebody needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth, 289 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: like this is evil and the only person who can 290 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to 291 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. These are the whistleblowers. 292 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: If you are disloyal, things are going to happen to 293 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: speak out disgrace to our cut. Evil play should be 294 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. 295 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, 296 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's 297 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of 298 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my wart winning 299 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to 300 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: toatch incredible guests about important things. People like me have 301 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court. 302 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: What they're doing is wrong, what they're doing is evil. 303 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: They will take things away. And I can only hope 304 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment, girl, You 305 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: and I both know what it took to just get 306 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: through the day in New York City and get home 307 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: in one piece. And so the fact that we're here 308 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know, 309 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills. 310 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said, 311 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking us. 312 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: And we're constantly noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox 313 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 314 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share How Rude. 315 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: Tanta Rito's is the Full House rewatch podcast you've been 316 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: waiting for. Each week, get together with iconic characters Stephanie 317 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler, also known as actresses Jody Sweeten 318 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 1: and Andrea Barber, as they team up to relive every 319 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: episode of your favorite Friday night comfort show. We spent 320 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: our entire childhoods on a little show called Full House, 321 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: playing frenemies but becoming besties whenever the cameras weren't rolling, 322 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: and now thirty five years later, it's our biggest adventure yet. 323 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: Get ready for Jody and Andrea to tell all as 324 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: they take an in depth book back at life in 325 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: and around the Tanner Home from the very very beginning. 326 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: So if you think you know everything there is to 327 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 1: know about Full House, How Rude, We'll be reliving every 328 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: moment with you, and we'll be joined by our Full 329 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: House family, including all your favorites from one hundred and 330 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: ninety two episodes. We'll reveal the hidden treasures you may 331 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: have missed within the show, and we'll take a trip 332 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: down memory lane together. Listen to how Rude Tannertos on 333 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio appable podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 334 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: Here's Jeff speaking with James Pilcher. The defense is asking 335 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: for a Mistriald, What do you make of that? Is 336 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: that its something that's valid? Could they possibly get one? 337 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: They are pulling every trick in the book that they 338 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: can to try to get this to start over, to 339 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: delay it, to get the juryman to do whatever. The 340 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: latest thing. They don't want the prosecution to be able 341 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: to show the pictures up on the screen. Here again, 342 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: Joseph Morgan. What is kind of out of left field 343 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: is the idea that the defense attorney would ask for 344 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: a mistrial based on the nature of the photographs. Most 345 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: of the time that that kind of stuff is handled 346 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: in pre trial motion. You come to an agreement as 347 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 1: to what photography is going to be used, and in 348 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: the free child motions, there'll be a hearing. And they 349 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 1: knew this was coming. This is not like this just 350 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,479 Speaker 1: fell from the heavens and they're unaware. He know that's 351 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: these photogram coming, So I don't know how much of 352 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: this was rooted in legal practice and how much of 353 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 1: it is rooted in the address. It appears that Judge 354 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: Deering agrees with the request for a mistriald denied. The 355 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: prosecution moves on to crime scene three, the home where 356 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: Dana Roden, Hanname Roden, and Chris Roden Jr. Were killed. 357 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: The prosecution recalled BCI special agent Todd Fortner to the stand. 358 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: Fortner had already testified earlier in the trial about evidence 359 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: at Chris Senior and Gary's trailer. He took many of 360 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: the photographs at Frankie Roden's house as well. When nicought 361 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: the eye of both the prosecution and defense. Was an 362 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: open window on the backside of the home. If you 363 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,680 Speaker 1: look at States and did at B one thirty five, 364 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: you testified about that air conditioner that appeared to have 365 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: some grass on it out back. Can you see that 366 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: air conditioner in that picture? Yes, just outside the window. 367 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: The back of Frankie Roden's home has two windows. The 368 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: open window in questions it's about five to six feet 369 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: up from the ground with two HVAC units below. In 370 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: interior photos are shown next show the jury where that 371 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: pictures taken from the what you're de packing in that picture. 372 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: This again from the doorway here looking into the bedroom. 373 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: You can see the clutter and the open window. Here 374 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: Stephanie looking at these photographs and picturing this room and 375 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: where these windows are. An interesting detail too, I thought 376 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: was that there was a bathtub and they must have 377 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: been raising baby chicks because to keep them warm, there 378 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: were little wood chips in the bathtub where the chicks 379 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: were growing. And right beside that there was you know, 380 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: a toddler's packing play, which we've all seen before, just 381 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: kind to a hunting image against the grizzliness that took 382 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: place soon after. Also, you know, it raises the question 383 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: there was so much stuff in and around where the 384 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 1: windows are, it seems like it would have been very 385 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: clumsy to get through that window, specially agent Todd Fortner. 386 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: And when you initially viewed that picture, did you think 387 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: it was unlikely that anybody had come through that window? Yes, 388 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: so I felt it was less likely that someone came 389 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: in without disturbing some of these items. However, it was 390 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,239 Speaker 1: not impossible, Okay, so clearly somebody could have come through 391 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: that window. But based on the way that those items 392 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: appeared nothing was knock over or disturbed or upside down. 393 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: That correct. Correct. He gave it some thought and listened 394 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: very carefully, and he opined that he didn't believe that 395 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: that was case. He said, it's not off the table. 396 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 1: But you know the space is so tight this window. 397 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: You know that you would gain acts through and there 398 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: is no underlying area to kind of leverage yourself up 399 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: all into the one to seal. The defense tries to 400 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: drive a wedge between the certainty of the prosecution and Fortner, 401 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,719 Speaker 1: alluding to one Wagner who could have fit through that window, 402 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 1: admitted murderer, Jake Wagner. You prepare a report in this case, right, yes, 403 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: And in your report you discussed looking for points of entry. 404 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: Do you recall that I do, And what is it 405 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: you said about that as a potential point of interest, 406 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: As I've already testified, I said, with the items there 407 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: inside the window, I felt it was less likely to 408 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: be a point of entry because it's such a tight 409 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: squeeze to get through there and not disrupt those items. 410 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: Even though you said it was unlikely based on your observations, 411 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 1: was it impossible, No, it was possible, Like I said, 412 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: it would take somebody smaller and more agile, but not impossible. 413 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: When he said that, I went back and counter reflectively 414 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: looked at the images of Jake, you know, back during 415 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,959 Speaker 1: that period of time. On some level, he's bulk here now, 416 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: but back in sixteen he was a smaller person. Jay 417 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 1: could have made through it back then, but I think 418 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: it's highly unlikely. There's another point that we have to 419 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 1: consider here. If you go through a window, particularly when 420 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: you have to leap up to and kind of pull 421 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: yourself through there, there would be some remnant of you. 422 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: Potentially a much higher probability is some remnant of you 423 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: left behind in that small space you're trying to wiggle through. 424 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: You testified that you didn't do any swabbing or DNA 425 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: of that open window area as part of your work 426 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: out there on that day. Is that correct? Correct? But 427 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 1: did you find out or do you know that later 428 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: as part of the investigation eventually that area was swabbed 429 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: for DNA. Yes, it was. There was no DNA and 430 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 1: no fingerprints were covered in or around the window. Every 431 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: contact leaves a trace, So everything that we do physically 432 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 1: within the construct of a crime scene, if we touch surface, 433 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: we're gonna leave some element of ourself behat, whether it's 434 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: an early fingerprint, whether it's a bit of fiber, whether 435 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: it's a bit of touch DNA which is shed and skin, 436 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: and to my way of understand, they didn't find any 437 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: of that. The next morning, another attempt by the defense 438 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: to shut down the trial. Here's Judge Deering motion was 439 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: filed earlier this morning, motion number one eleven entitled motion 440 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: for this mistrial. Thursday began with another attempt by Wagner's 441 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: defense team to get a mistrial in the case. But 442 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: as you did Wednesday, Judge Randy Deering overruled that motion. 443 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: Here again Mike Allen on why the defense would file 444 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: motions on back to back days. They're making a record. 445 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: From what I understand, it was an oral motion the 446 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: day before, yet yesterday it was put in writing yesterday 447 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: and filed and the judge heard the one that is 448 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: in writing today. It's all about making a record in 449 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: case there's an appeal again, Joseph Scott Morgan, if George 450 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: has found guilty, it's immediately going to go up on appeal. 451 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: And I can promise you this is going to be 452 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: a point which they're going to argue on appeal. They're 453 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: gonna say these photographs were so prejudicial, so over the top, 454 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: that it's swayed in an inappropriate manner. A painted my 455 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: client is some kind of monster. Soon after the exchange, 456 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: Hamilton County Chief Deputy corner Doctor Karen Lohman returned to 457 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: the stand, Doctor Lowman, can you tell us what we 458 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: are looking at there? So this is a side X 459 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 1: ray of Dana's head. You can see she has some 460 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: fillings in her teeth, and she has one, two, three, four, 461 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: about six large pieces of bullet and bullet fragments in 462 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,719 Speaker 1: her head. Kneppa, seeing the graphic nature of the photo, 463 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: pauses for many awkward seconds. Lumen grimaces and looks down 464 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 1: while Caneppa decides what to do. She asked the judge 465 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 1: to remove the photo from the in room screen. I'm 466 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: gonna can you minimize seis. I'm going to approach the 467 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: exhibit with this next photo. If that's okay with the chord, 468 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm going to approach the victim with this next. 469 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: From here on in, she only shows doctor Lumen and 470 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: the jury printed photos of the autopsies. Doctor can you 471 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: tell us when you did your examination of Dana? Roden. 472 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: How many gunshot wounds had she received? Five? Matriarch Dana 473 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: Rodin was in a nightgown in bed when she was shot. 474 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: And can you tell us we are was gunshot wound 475 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: number one located on the diagram? Number one is on 476 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,719 Speaker 1: the far left. It looks like it's on the right forehead. 477 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: It's a little more on the side of the forehead. 478 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,120 Speaker 1: It traveled across, following a relatively straight path to the 479 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: left side of her head, struck the bone on the 480 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: left side of her head, did not exit, and then 481 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: fell inside her skull to underneath her brain. And a 482 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: gunshot wound number two? Where was that located? That is 483 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: closer to the center of the right forehead? Shot three 484 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: was similar the other two grazed her skull and shattered 485 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: her jaw. And can you tell us do you have 486 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: an opinion? Were the bullets in projectile that you recovered 487 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: from Dana Rodin? Was that consistent with the bullets and 488 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: projectiles that you removed from Frankie Rodin and Hannah Hazel Kelly, Yes, okay, 489 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: And inconsistent with the bullets and projectiles that you recovered 490 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: from Chris Senior and Dary Roden. Yes. That's correct. When 491 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: initial photos of Hannah may Rodin in a body bag 492 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: are presented to doctor Luman, Angie Kneppa immediately draws attention 493 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,160 Speaker 1: to a tattoo. There is what appears to be a 494 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: tattoo close to the underwear line or the bikini line. 495 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: And can you tell us what those initials are? The 496 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: initials are E JW kre Stephanie, Hannah may rode In 497 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: on her body. She has a little tattoo with the 498 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: initials E J W on her hip. Those initials, of 499 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: course afore Edward Jake Wagner. That's Jake Wagner's legal name, 500 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: and it just paints a picture. At one point she 501 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: was deeply, deeply in love with him. This is a 502 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: side view of Hannah's head. You can see that this 503 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 1: a long belt gated piece of metal and a shorter 504 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: one there. Those are the earrings that we saw previously 505 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 1: in the previous picture. And then you can see some 506 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: small radio paque white pieces of bullet in her head. 507 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: And when you conducted your examination of Hannah rode In, 508 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: how many gunshot wounds did you observe her to have? Two? 509 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: Here again, Reporter James Pilcher, Hannah was the main target 510 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: because she was the one holding up the issues with 511 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: the custody, And yet she only got shot twice and 512 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: the rest were you know, Dana got shot five times. 513 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: It makes no sense. Hanname Rodin was shot in the 514 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: upper left back of her head and behind her left ear. 515 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: She was found resting facing away from the door to 516 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: her bedroom. So if for instance, somebody comes in through here, 517 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: this individual sees that person and then turns away either 518 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: instinctively to because they see a gun, in order to 519 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: protect the child that's laying and better them. Are the 520 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 1: injuries in the pathways that you saw to her head 521 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: consistent with that? Yes? Did you observe the shirt to 522 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: be in any certain position? Yes? And what was that position? 523 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: The shirt was pulled up over the right breast. And 524 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: did you actually have some other abnormal finding when you 525 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: did the internal examination of Hannah Rodin or an additional finding? Yeah, 526 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: not necessarily abnormal, but yes, additional finals And what was that? 527 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: One of them was that she was lactating and the 528 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: other was that her uterus was enlarged because she'd just 529 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: given birth several days before, so it takes a while 530 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: for your uterus to shrink back down so I could 531 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: tell that she had recently given birth. Back in twenty six, 532 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: the weekend after the murders, Karen Lehman returned to the 533 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: marg on Sunday after spending an entire Saturday with the 534 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: bodies of Dana, Hannah Hazel and Anime. Chris Junior was 535 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: the first body she examined that day. The fifteen year 536 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: old was found lying on his stomach, covered by a comforter. 537 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 1: There were four shots to the right side of his 538 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 1: head and face. And is that consistent with the body 539 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: being positioned this way and somebody coming up and shooting 540 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: him from this site? Yes? Yes? Did you observe any 541 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: exit wounds to Christopher Jr? No? Did you collect the 542 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,680 Speaker 1: projectile that you recovered from within his head? Yes? Okay, 543 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: showing you what's been Marcus dates Exhibit K ninety three. 544 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 1: If you can tell me about this. This is a 545 00:35:56,280 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 1: bullet box labeled from the head and it's holding all 546 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: of the bullets in one box that we collected at autopsy. 547 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: Here again, James Pilcher seeing the crime scene photos of 548 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: Chris Junior. About me cry, I'm a parent of a 549 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen year old and to see him just lying 550 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: dead in bed with a blood hole in his forehead 551 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: and purple was just not something I'd ever want to 552 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: see again. That afternoon, court adjourns for the week after 553 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: hours of grilling testimony about crime scene. Three jurors who 554 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 1: will decide George Wagner's Guilder innocence have a lot to 555 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:45,319 Speaker 1: think about this weekend. Let's stop here for another break. Oh. 556 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The 557 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, 558 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 559 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 560 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 561 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted and to the point she 562 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 563 00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 564 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 565 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 566 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 567 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 568 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 569 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 570 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 1: listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast 571 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney, 572 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd 573 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: never confronted a situation like this. I just thought it 574 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: was just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they 575 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,120 Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, 576 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that 577 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that line. Thoughts ricin, 578 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: arn't ricin, And somebody needs to just for once give 579 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: everybody the whole truth, like this is evil and the 580 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 1: only person who can sound the alarm is you. I 581 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: wasn't just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart podcasts. 582 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: These are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are 583 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,839 Speaker 1: going to happen to speak out disgrace to our gun. 584 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: Evil play should be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is 585 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 1: the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to 586 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:44,440 Speaker 1: the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 587 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, 588 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: fashionista and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may 589 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: remember my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. 590 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: There's always time to talk to incredible guests about important things. 591 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: People like me have been screaming for years. We've got 592 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,359 Speaker 1: to watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, 593 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: what they're doing is evil. They will take things away. 594 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 1: And I can only hope that Dobbs is that like 595 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 1: Pearl Harbor moment, girl, You and I both know what 596 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: it took to just get through the day in New 597 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: York City and get home in one piece. And so 598 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: the fact that we're here and what you've achieved and 599 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: what I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just 600 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 1: sitting around complaining about some bills. The only reason that 601 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 1: you might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable 602 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: is because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly 603 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: noticing it. Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the 604 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. 605 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe and share in our twenty two 606 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: years of friendship, Andy, this has to be the most 607 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 1: bizarre thing we've ever done. I know, I love it. 608 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: Our podcast, My Vagina Said is a podcast where we 609 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: ask our everyday vagina listeners to pull up a seat 610 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 1: at the best Friend's table as we share our most 611 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: personal and humiliating stories and ask questions about women's bodies. 612 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: We are going to discuss all body things like what 613 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: exactly are we supposed to do with our pubs? Oh 614 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,240 Speaker 1: my gosh, if you could have a heart shaped pube 615 00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:26,680 Speaker 1: that were bedazzled in pink rubies, or perrymenopause, I feel 616 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,280 Speaker 1: right now justified. I'm going to start my own personal movement. 617 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: I'm going to start blaming anything that goes wrong in 618 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: my life on perrymenopause, leg hair too long, don't have 619 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: the will to clean, perryopause exactly, our whack periods, boob issues, 620 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: and so much more. Listen to My Vagina Said What 621 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,279 Speaker 1: podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 622 00:40:51,400 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 1: get your podcasts what. Monday morning comes quickly for a 623 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: tired panel of jurors. Doctor Lumin arrives for her final 624 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,560 Speaker 1: day of testimony. It's the final day bearing witness to 625 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: the most grisly details of how an entire branch of 626 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: the family tree was chopped off in one night. In 627 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: a previous episode, we analyzed Kenneth Roden's crime scene, known 628 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: as crime Scene four, in depth, but Karen Luman adds 629 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: an additional detail we had not heard about Kenny Rowden's murder. 630 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,479 Speaker 1: Do you have an a painting within a reasonable degree 631 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: medical certainty as to the cause of death of Kenneth? Yes? Hey, 632 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: what would that be? Doctor? There was a single gunshot 633 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 1: wound to the head. His eyes were closed because the 634 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: bullet went through his eyelids. This is where we found 635 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: the bullet. It is a refrain she touched upon. Across 636 00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: her testimony, James Pilcher Loman said she could tell many 637 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: of the victims died in their sleep. It became apparent 638 00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: looking at where the wounds were that it seemed that 639 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: many of them were shot multiple times and never moved, 640 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: never appeared to have reacted to other people in the 641 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: house being shot as well. Here's Jeff speaking with Mike Gallen. 642 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: It's more detail than we've ever gotten about the brutality 643 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,320 Speaker 1: of what happened to the Rodent family. And you know, 644 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 1: there didn't appear to be much of a struggle, And 645 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: she said that's not normally the case, my guess is 646 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: that there they probably were asleep because I mean, if 647 00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 1: you hear a gun shot or if you see somebody 648 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: coming at you holding a gun or anything at that 649 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: time of night, I think your suspicions would be raised. 650 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:46,919 Speaker 1: And you didn't have any defensive wounds and nobody really resisted. Yeah, 651 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: it's it's it's hard to like picture it. I mean, 652 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: for sure to many points too, that that Jake was 653 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:55,360 Speaker 1: not alone in shooting them, like there had to have 654 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: been more than one shooter. I mean, if you think 655 00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: about if everyone was in bad if you go to Dana's, 656 00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: it's Dana, Hannah and little Chris. So were there three 657 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: shooters at the same time? You know, I'm all counting 658 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: down or could there be another reason no one woke up. 659 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: They're getting further and further away from tying it to 660 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: the actual defendant. Here, we really got to get to 661 00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:25,280 Speaker 1: the beginning when the plotting and planning in real conspiracy 662 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:32,640 Speaker 1: took place. And this is a fired bullet, a forty caliber. 663 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: So the focus of testimony now is ballistics, the bullets 664 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: that were found at each of those four crime scenes. 665 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,759 Speaker 1: It's part of a number of experts the state will 666 00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,279 Speaker 1: be calling to show the jury the evidence to tie 667 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: it to the Wagner family. They have to show this 668 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 1: because we learned today there was no Wagner family members 669 00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: DNA at any of those four crime scenes. More on 670 00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: that next time. For more information on the case and 671 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. 672 00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, Jeff Shane, 673 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 1: Scott DeGraw, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me Courtney Armstrong. 674 00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ta Music by Jared Aston. 675 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:24,920 Speaker 1: The Piked and Masker is a production of iHeartRadio and 676 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: Katie Studios. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit 677 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 1: the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 678 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting 679 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 1: a podcast called The Girl Friends. It's Las Vegas, it's 680 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find a husband. 681 00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: There were four Jewish doctors who were felt to be 682 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:54,399 Speaker 1: eligible bachelors. One of them was of the Baron Matt 683 00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: On paper, he was perfect, but in reality, this guy's 684 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: a wacko. He shouted to the point she went unconscious. 685 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 686 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to the Girlfriends 687 00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:12,799 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get 688 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years have been on 689 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: the road, playing shows and seeing America through live music. 690 00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage who Season two of 691 00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday. 692 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 1: We explore the live music venues and culture of a 693 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 694 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to 695 00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:38,239 Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver or Seattle. Listen 696 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,800 Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 697 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:46,120 Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Right, I'm Freedom 698 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,160 Speaker 1: and I'm Rthie. We have spent the last twenty years 699 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,040 Speaker 1: building and working at some of the largest companies in 700 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 1: the world. We worked with some remarkable people Rob mcalinney. 701 00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,640 Speaker 1: When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up 702 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: exactly like them. Check out the ARTI Entry show. That 703 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,880 Speaker 1: is a R D HI hand s R I R 704 00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: A M Show. Listen to the art Instrum Show on 705 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:14,040 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or whenever you get your podcast. 706 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,960 Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. 707 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name 708 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,120 Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a 709 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,400 Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, 710 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,359 Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race 711 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,160 Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was 712 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,839 Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, 713 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.