Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't stories of things we simply don't
Speaker 1: know the answer too. Well. Hi there, welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by
Speaker 1: and Steve. Yeah. So you guys ready to solve another mystery? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: let's roll up our sleeves and start up solving. So,
Speaker 1: so this week we're gonna talk about a person named
Speaker 1: Jean Spangler Spangler, Jan Spengler. Yeah, so let's let's find
Speaker 1: out what her mystery was. Okay. So she was a
Speaker 1: dancer and a model who had also done some bit
Speaker 1: parts in movies in the late nineteen forties, and she
Speaker 1: lived in Los Angeles. She lived in a two bedroom
Speaker 1: apartment with her mother, Florence, and her five year old
Speaker 1: daughter Christine. Didn't she also live with her brother in Lawns.
Speaker 1: I've seen that little that little nugget out there. But
Speaker 1: apparently her brother was actually killed in the war, and
Speaker 1: so they were still in good terms with her sister
Speaker 1: in law, Sophie, and Sophie was from it was so
Speaker 1: Sophie wasn't living there, but she was staying there. She
Speaker 1: was from in from out of town on a visit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, that would have been pretty crowded to
Speaker 1: have everybody living there a full time, you know, But
Speaker 1: I think it happens. I think that's what I said,
Speaker 1: like on the wiki page for this and had that
Speaker 1: on there. I think that was inaccurate. A lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of inaccurate stuff in Wikipedia. Yeah, we're not
Speaker 1: going to Okay, that's back to our story here. At
Speaker 1: the time that our story begins October nine, Jeans Spangler
Speaker 1: was twenty six years old. Yeah, I know, and she
Speaker 1: had she had been in eight different movies, all of
Speaker 1: them uncredited. Yeah, I know. The shame. She had been
Speaker 1: married briefly to a guy named Dexter Benner. They divorced
Speaker 1: in nineteen six and they had a baby between a
Speaker 1: child between them, Christine, and there was a nasty court battle,
Speaker 1: and she eventually was awarded custody of the daughter and support.
Speaker 1: Well didn't she have to? Wasn't an Initially they awarded
Speaker 1: custody to the husband, but he was such a jerk
Speaker 1: and kept denying her visitation that eventually said yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: the court eventually sided with her and they changed their
Speaker 1: mind and gave custody. Hurt. Actually, the divorces interesting. They
Speaker 1: were married for like four months. Initially, they got married
Speaker 1: when she was nineteen, and they were married for four
Speaker 1: months before they separated, and then saw each other on
Speaker 1: and off for five years before they divorced. Yeah, come on, guys,
Speaker 1: come on, I know that's sad. Kids today, yesterday, Okay,
Speaker 1: back to our mystery. On October seven, Jean left her
Speaker 1: daughter with with her sister in law, Sophie. Her mother
Speaker 1: was out of town on visiting relatives in Kentucky, so
Speaker 1: she said that she had to go see her X
Speaker 1: about child support, which she apparently was laid on. Oh
Speaker 1: I heard that she wanted to increase the Yeah, I
Speaker 1: heard both of those things. Yeah. She also said that
Speaker 1: after that she was going to go work on a
Speaker 1: night shoot for a film, and uh, well, long story short,
Speaker 1: she never came back. She never returned home, and no,
Speaker 1: to this day, nobody knows what happened to her, or
Speaker 1: probably somebody does, but they're not talking. Yeah. So the
Speaker 1: next day, Sophie called the police. They took a report.
Speaker 1: They didn't do anything because they figured, you know, it's Hollywood.
Speaker 1: People are people are party and all. Probably yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so obviously they're not gonna waste their time. And again
Speaker 1: Sophie is the sister. Sophie is a sister, just making
Speaker 1: sure who was watching Christine the daughter, Christine's daughter exactly.
Speaker 1: So the day after that Sunday ACTO or nine, Jean's
Speaker 1: purse was found in Griffith Park by a park ranger.
Speaker 1: The straps on one side had been torn off, would
Speaker 1: suggests some sort of violence. Uh, And so this galvanized
Speaker 1: the police into action. The next day they got together
Speaker 1: a bunch of cops, like sixty cops and the hunters
Speaker 1: plus volunteers and started combing Griffith Park and they found nothing.
Speaker 1: I think the search one on for three or four days. Well,
Speaker 1: and Griffith's Park is a bit was a big park.
Speaker 1: It was like it's I think it's more than that.
Speaker 1: I just remember it. It was just a huge area
Speaker 1: to have to search. And I don't think they searched
Speaker 1: the entire park. This is at one specific Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sure they comed the area around. Yeah, I'm sure they
Speaker 1: won the ways, but yeah, that I mean searching that
Speaker 1: entire park. Oh my god, they'd be like searching Forest
Speaker 1: Park like yeah, it's huge, Yeah, it's really huge. Okay
Speaker 1: back to the purse, Uh, it had no money, and
Speaker 1: except for a silver dollar which was her lucky charm.
Speaker 1: Yeah fail. Yeah, but her sister law said that she
Speaker 1: had had no money and when she left on Friday,
Speaker 1: So it doesn't look like roberts a motive and she
Speaker 1: of course see that was when you're doing things like
Speaker 1: having bit parts and as an extra in the movie,
Speaker 1: you're not really making a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So everything there was an I D. And the usual
Speaker 1: stuff you'll find your purse. The big, the big out
Speaker 1: of interest was a note which read Kirk can't wait
Speaker 1: any longer going to see Dr Scott. It will work
Speaker 1: best this way while mother is away, and it ends
Speaker 1: with a comma, as if she'd been interrupted while writing
Speaker 1: writing it. Although I've seen a photograph of the note
Speaker 1: and I can't really tell. It looks to me like
Speaker 1: it could just easily be a period that Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I don't really know. Although you would think you would
Speaker 1: sign a letter, yeah, I was, I was, I was
Speaker 1: taking there would at least be initials at the bottom
Speaker 1: and signs nothing now yeah, so it does have a
Speaker 1: certain unfinished quality to it. On October twelve, this was
Speaker 1: the Tuesday following or not excuse me, The Wednesday, following
Speaker 1: the LP you got a surprise phone call from none
Speaker 1: other than Kirk Douglas. Kirk Douglass. You don't know Kirk douglast,
Speaker 1: I don't know why. Why do I know Kirk Douglas.
Speaker 1: She's the father of Michael Douglas Spartacus Pass to Glory
Speaker 1: PASTI glory. You are so killing me. The generational gap
Speaker 1: really is making me feel old right now. Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1: He was the one who was in Spartacus, not Michael Douglas,
Speaker 1: was not the one that it was Kirkuk. So yeah,
Speaker 1: then I know who he is. Yeah, okay, alright. It's
Speaker 1: also sometimes just fun to do that blank stare with
Speaker 1: you guys, so we both freak out. Not nice, it's fun,
Speaker 1: it's fun. I did have heard of Kirk. Yeah. So anyway,
Speaker 1: Kirk DA says, you all know it was a famous
Speaker 1: movie star. So he phones him up just out of
Speaker 1: the blue and tells him he totally was not the
Speaker 1: Kirk that the note was addressed to. So he's just like, hey,
Speaker 1: l A. P D. What's up. Yeah, that Kirk that
Speaker 1: it's not me? Yeah, okay, that's suspicious. Maybe Yeah. James
Speaker 1: Spangler had had a bit part of him movie recently
Speaker 1: that Douglas started and called young Man with a Horn,
Speaker 1: also starring Laura McCall and Doris Day, and apparently Delas
Speaker 1: said that he had heard about it. Somebody that he
Speaker 1: knew that he was acquainted with, had read about this,
Speaker 1: recognized the name checked she was in the movie, and
Speaker 1: mentioned it to him some studio exactly. Otherwise, Yeah, those
Speaker 1: guys are probably always putting out little fires and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, you know, so they probably said, you said, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, talk to you Laura, then call the cops
Speaker 1: and get get out ahead of this story. So I'm sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is I mean, this is before like us Weekly
Speaker 1: right then, like Kirk Douglas or well, there there's always
Speaker 1: been those those Hollywood dirt rags though, where they're always
Speaker 1: trying to find stuff about people. So you I can
Speaker 1: imagine that they, as Joe put it, they're they're putting
Speaker 1: out fires way ahead of time before those guys can
Speaker 1: even get to Yeah, although I guess it seems like
Speaker 1: the sort of thing that like you would figure out
Speaker 1: a way, like your publicity manager would probably figure out
Speaker 1: a way to like on the low down and let
Speaker 1: the l a p. D. Know hey, we're just trying
Speaker 1: to get out had this point, you know, it's not him,
Speaker 1: instead of like personally phoning the l A p D
Speaker 1: And being like, hey, guys, this is totally unsolicited, but
Speaker 1: it's not me. Well it's it's really interesting too. So
Speaker 1: he phones, like the senior investigator and I'm sure you
Speaker 1: got some you know, some secretary or something or something
Speaker 1: like that. Can I tell him he's calling Kirk Douglas. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: by the way, as your refrigerator running. Uh so, uh
Speaker 1: he just he told the police that he remembered talking
Speaker 1: to her on the set a little bit, but that
Speaker 1: other than that, he didn't know her personally at all.
Speaker 1: When Jean's mother got back from Kentucky, she told police
Speaker 1: that Jean had actually dated a guy named Kirk and
Speaker 1: had gone out with him at least twice, but that
Speaker 1: she didn't know his last name and had never met
Speaker 1: him and knew nothing about him. So that was it.
Speaker 1: So it could have been another Kirk. Oh that's right,
Speaker 1: that's right, because this guy he always he stayed in
Speaker 1: the car and she out and met him, so the
Speaker 1: mother never could get a good look at him. Well,
Speaker 1: on the other hand, if I were famous actor Kirk Douglas.
Speaker 1: I don't know that. I would be like, you probably
Speaker 1: want to keep it on the day. Yeah, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: be like flaunting it around. I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know what his like marital girlfriend status was at the time,
Speaker 1: but I believe he didn't have one. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I haven't done any research on him. Actually, I mean
Speaker 1: I did a little bit, and I covered some some
Speaker 1: unsavory thing. I'm sure we'll get into that later, but
Speaker 1: I wasn't really got to bring that up very much
Speaker 1: because I was so and then this is this episode
Speaker 1: is not about Kirk Douglass anyway. Next scept his behavior
Speaker 1: was my suspicious Gina. As far as dating, apparently she
Speaker 1: was dating somebody knew at least a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: before her disappearance. Um and but it turned out that
Speaker 1: the cops tracted and he turns out he was a
Speaker 1: writer named Peter Brooks, so nobody named Kirk. All right,
Speaker 1: that's the high level part of it. Now, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go I can get in a little bit more detail
Speaker 1: without being tedious about it than nothing, of course, I know.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna give you a little a little brief
Speaker 1: timeline here there her seventh five o'clock to five thirty,
Speaker 1: and I've seen both of them, depending on where you
Speaker 1: read about this. She leaves the apartment, she's gonna go
Speaker 1: see her ax and then gonna go to a movie. Shoot. Uh,
Speaker 1: six o'clock. She's seen at the farmer's market at Third
Speaker 1: and Fair Fact, which is about eight hundred two thousand
Speaker 1: feet in north of her apartment, so pretty close by.
Speaker 1: And there was a clerk there who saw her hanging around,
Speaker 1: said she was there for around ninety minutes, just browsing,
Speaker 1: started hanging out, and the clerk said that he got
Speaker 1: the impression that she was waiting for somebody. I didn't
Speaker 1: talk to her, but just got that impression. And that's
Speaker 1: how do you get that? Okay, Well, I don't understand that.
Speaker 1: If it's a farmer's market, and I've been to farmers markets,
Speaker 1: what do people do. They wander from booth to booth
Speaker 1: and they check out the wares and the goods. So
Speaker 1: what I don't get is how does that infer or
Speaker 1: that I'm waiting for someone? I mean, I mean she
Speaker 1: was probably like looking at her watch, or look checking
Speaker 1: the door regularly or something like that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that what we classify as a farmer's market isn't
Speaker 1: Whether it is classified as a farmer's market in the
Speaker 1: mid forties late I don't think. I don't think that
Speaker 1: that's the same thing. I don't think it's the same
Speaker 1: sort of like street hair situation. I'm not really sure, wrong,
Speaker 1: but you know in l A they have that famous
Speaker 1: it's not like a farmer's market, but it's kind of
Speaker 1: a it's a mall that's attached to what used to
Speaker 1: be a farmer's market, and it's it's booths and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, but it's really it's like lots of storefronts together.
Speaker 1: I can't remember what it's called, right, and I'll be honest,
Speaker 1: called the farmer's market place is still in the same spot.
Speaker 1: It's still called the farmer's market. I don't know if
Speaker 1: it looks the same. It looks it looks kind of demolished,
Speaker 1: but it looks like some of the buildings are kind
Speaker 1: of old. There's a lot of new construction around it,
Speaker 1: but it looks like at least a few of the
Speaker 1: buildings are old wooden buildings. Yeah, I mean I think that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we're talking about the same kind of place.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe to the farmer's market. Maybe it's not, but
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's like booths. It's kind of
Speaker 1: more like a boardwalk, I think, is maybe the way
Speaker 1: that I would describe it. Lots of like storefronts, not
Speaker 1: like somebody's just like brought their little car to food
Speaker 1: and like set it up under a tent, which is
Speaker 1: kind of what I think of with like a modern
Speaker 1: day farmers you know. So I think you can kind
Speaker 1: of say like it's all surrounded, you know, it surrounds
Speaker 1: a square kind of area. It's easy to just kind
Speaker 1: of be loitering and wandering, and especially if you're doing
Speaker 1: it for ninety minutes and you really don't ever buy
Speaker 1: anything and you kind of just are looking like it's
Speaker 1: interestedly in things, I think it's easier to like you.
Speaker 1: I think it's possible to say I'm sorry all that
Speaker 1: to say. I think it's very possible to say it's
Speaker 1: it'd be pretty easy to say that person was just
Speaker 1: waiting for somebody. Yeah, long explanation, sorry, alright. Seven Back
Speaker 1: to our timeline. Seven o'clock, She calls home to check
Speaker 1: on her daughter and says that she'll be home later
Speaker 1: and talked to Sophie of course. Yeah, so obviously from
Speaker 1: a pay phone in the Farmer's market, because she didn't
Speaker 1: leave there until about seven thirty Okay, by the time
Speaker 1: she left, of course, it would be dark. I checked
Speaker 1: sunset on that day. It was six thirty pm, let's
Speaker 1: be specific. Yeah, and not that you know, not that
Speaker 1: it matters all that much, but you know, it's just
Speaker 1: easier to murder people when it's dark out. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Her next sighting was six hours later October, the wee
Speaker 1: hours of October eight, Saturday morning, one thirty am, she
Speaker 1: was seeing at a table in a restaurant called the
Speaker 1: Cheese Box at Sunset and Laurel Canyon Um sitting with
Speaker 1: the dark like a tall neat man as he was described,
Speaker 1: with dark hair, thirty thirty five years old. And by
Speaker 1: the way, the location of the Cheese Box is about
Speaker 1: two miles north of her apartment, so far away from home. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she might have got a ride, cut a bus, but
Speaker 1: she could have easily walked it in that time. How
Speaker 1: I'm doubting she did. She was still at the Cheese Box.
Speaker 1: Apparently at two thirty am a different eye wouldness saw
Speaker 1: her there. But she was sitting sitting at a different
Speaker 1: table and arguing with with a couple of guys. And
Speaker 1: of course, let's some of these sightings. Let's let's face
Speaker 1: it might not have been her after yeah, yeah, after yeah.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm pretty convinced the guy at the farmer's market,
Speaker 1: since she lifts up close by, I probably knew her,
Speaker 1: it was familiar with so that was probably an accurate one.
Speaker 1: So anyway, early that morning, it's just kind of vague.
Speaker 1: She A gas station attendant reported that a convertible with
Speaker 1: a man and a woman pulled in for gas, and
Speaker 1: of course, at this time, her disappearance had not yet
Speaker 1: hit the papers, so he had but apparently she reportedly
Speaker 1: looked like Jeanne, and the guy in the car said
Speaker 1: that they were going to go to Fresno. And yet
Speaker 1: as they drove away, the woman yelled, how the police
Speaker 1: follow this car? So the attendant called the cops, but
Speaker 1: the cops were not able to find the car. It
Speaker 1: probably was a joke. You know, is your refrigerator running? Really?
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like early morning. She's probably
Speaker 1: drunk and just like think this would be whole area.
Speaker 1: It's really like who's gonna how are they gonna? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that probably that stuck in his mind a
Speaker 1: little bit, and finally when he picked up the papers
Speaker 1: and saw her picture heard about the disappearance, he started
Speaker 1: his memory. His memory probably played a little trick on
Speaker 1: him there. But then at the same time, maybe it
Speaker 1: was her. I'm doubting it. So it's Saturday, same Saturday,
Speaker 1: somewhere between six pm and ten pm. Her purse is
Speaker 1: dropped at the Ferndale entrance to Griffith Park, which is
Speaker 1: three and a half miles northeast of the cheese Box,
Speaker 1: and the timeline for that particular the one was. But
Speaker 1: the guy who found it I think his name was
Speaker 1: Henry Angle. He was a park ranger, and he didn't
Speaker 1: find it until Sunday, the day after. And so I'm
Speaker 1: not sure why he's so sure it's between six and ten.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe he was by there at at six
Speaker 1: pm on Saturday and didn't see it there and then
Speaker 1: and then maybe perhaps they closed the park at ten
Speaker 1: o'clock and shut the gates. I don't know, And that's
Speaker 1: the only way I can think of that he knew
Speaker 1: that if they closed the gates it would have been
Speaker 1: there and they would have seen it when they closed
Speaker 1: the gates. Well, I don't think it now. I don't
Speaker 1: think it was right by the gates. It was about
Speaker 1: ten feet inside the entrance here. So it just seems
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, you do a patrol, like if
Speaker 1: you close the gates to a park, you you close
Speaker 1: the gates. But but you know, I mean gates to
Speaker 1: a park. I doubt mean that the thing is got
Speaker 1: a cyclone fence around it, and it's a tall chain
Speaker 1: link fence. It's probably just bars across the road. But
Speaker 1: any any goofball can walk by or stop and throw
Speaker 1: something into the bushes in totally totally. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think that I think that this this is kind of shaky.
Speaker 1: And also I went and looked at the park entrance
Speaker 1: on Google street View. You know, you know me, I
Speaker 1: always have to do that every story. I didn't see
Speaker 1: any evidence of massive, massive chain link fences or anything
Speaker 1: like that. Well, I mean a park that big. I mean,
Speaker 1: trying to close a park like that off, you forget it.
Speaker 1: How you can close parks like that? You know they
Speaker 1: do this with Washington Parker for Forest Park in Portland
Speaker 1: closed the roads so that car traffic can't get through,
Speaker 1: but pedestrian traffic there's no So they just don't even
Speaker 1: try anymore. It's not worth it, Okay. Next to our timeline,
Speaker 1: October nine, nine am, a Fresno man saw her in
Speaker 1: a in a bar in Fresno with a man, and
Speaker 1: so apparently once again, so this is October nine, she
Speaker 1: still has not hit the papers. Apparently she was saying
Speaker 1: she was his nine am. She's sitting in the bar
Speaker 1: with a guy and said something on the order of like,
Speaker 1: you know, I just had the worst night of my life.
Speaker 1: I don't she said that to this guy or if
Speaker 1: he overheard her saying it. I think I think he
Speaker 1: overheard her. Uh, And so I don't really, I don't
Speaker 1: really believe Again, this guy, this guy was hanging out
Speaker 1: the bar, probably had had a few of himself at
Speaker 1: nine a less seriously, that might be one reason the
Speaker 1: police discounted this and didn't take it too seriously. Okay,
Speaker 1: So anyway, that same day the purse is found, and
Speaker 1: of course that guess the police all hot and bo
Speaker 1: there and they started to search the next day, Monday, October.
Speaker 1: That same day, October ten, David ogul Uh, who was
Speaker 1: a guy that Jean reportedly dated for a while or
Speaker 1: hung out with at least he disappeared too. He was
Speaker 1: an associate of an l A gangster named Mickey Cohen,
Speaker 1: another one of his another one of the gang, Frank Nicole,
Speaker 1: had managed about a month before. But these guys actually
Speaker 1: had reasons to vanish. They were under indictment. Trying to
Speaker 1: remember what they were indicted for. Conspiracy was the official
Speaker 1: chart for that. I don't know. Conspiracy to what you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, conspire about all sorts of things. Hard to tell.
Speaker 1: May I remember seeing that and looking at it, to
Speaker 1: the life of me, remember what it was. Yeah. October eleventh,
Speaker 1: Jean was cited by three three waitresses at a restaurant
Speaker 1: in Monterey. You guys know where water is, right, California? Yeah,
Speaker 1: somewhere in California. I just wanted to make sure we
Speaker 1: were talking, still talking about California. Still in California. But
Speaker 1: that's that's a ways up the coast from l It's
Speaker 1: almost to San Francisco. Well, I mean it's not as
Speaker 1: though you can't like drive that far. I mean technically
Speaker 1: drive from Portland to l A in one day. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to try to remember the speed of
Speaker 1: travel of cars in the roads at that time. But
Speaker 1: given a couple of days l A to the Bay Area.
Speaker 1: I'm not just because we go to Portland, l A.
Speaker 1: In a day now doesn't mean that was the case before.
Speaker 1: But to say, like it seems impossible that she could
Speaker 1: have made a depressn terray like and a half. Yeah,
Speaker 1: even without inter State five, it could be done. So
Speaker 1: her next setting October twelfth, so somebody reported that he
Speaker 1: saw her at a bus depot in Stockton. I actually
Speaker 1: don't know where Stockton is, California, central central California, like
Speaker 1: just like maybe a hundred miles east of San Francisco. Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Of course on that same day that the famous movie
Speaker 1: guy Kirt Doutlist called the police up its where it
Speaker 1: totally wasn't him in that note. Next day, October, she
Speaker 1: sided Geane. That is a sided in North Hollywood by
Speaker 1: Shirley Anne Morris, who was a thirteen year old girl
Speaker 1: who knew Gene. Apparently they were friends, and so this
Speaker 1: might be a more reliable sighting. Although what she was
Speaker 1: doing hanging out in North Hollywood I don't know, But
Speaker 1: apparently Shirley saw her in a car with an older
Speaker 1: looking guy, and she looked nervous and frightened. I bet
Speaker 1: Shirley was an actress. Don't you think she was also
Speaker 1: like a bit actress? Don't you think? I mean? I
Speaker 1: think I thought she was a schoolgirl. But hey, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe that's how they knew each other from the movies.
Speaker 1: From she that she had done some bit parts in movies,
Speaker 1: that she had also been a bit part. Maybe Jean
Speaker 1: played her mom once they but that might be a
Speaker 1: more reliable sighting. I don't know. And after that, no,
Speaker 1: no major sightings reported. In October eighteenth, the police called
Speaker 1: off the investigation. Yeah, they said they believed that she
Speaker 1: had just taken off and was ten days later, right,
Speaker 1: that let's be they didn't. They didn't really start their
Speaker 1: investigation until the ninth, nine days later. Yeah cool. Yeah, Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: if I ever disappear, I want you to make sure
Speaker 1: that police look for me for longer than nine days.
Speaker 1: We'll make sure they go at least ten. That seems
Speaker 1: reasonable is an acceptable number. Yeah, I just see it now.
Speaker 1: We're we will not let you quit. We will not
Speaker 1: let you abandoned her until tomorrow. As time went by,
Speaker 1: they continue to receive reports of sighting from all over
Speaker 1: the sightings of Jane from all over the country, as
Speaker 1: tends to happen, she was also like an attractive but
Speaker 1: fairly nondescript white female. Yeah, I would say that would
Speaker 1: be very easy to mistake her for a lot of
Speaker 1: other people. Yeah. He was looking at the pictures of
Speaker 1: her from the number of movies that she was in,
Speaker 1: and she was probably great as an extra because she
Speaker 1: didn't have a defining look. She's not going to steal
Speaker 1: the scene from the main star. You change your hair,
Speaker 1: she looks completely different. You change your makeup, she looked
Speaker 1: completely different. I'm looking at somebody had a collage of
Speaker 1: her photos, and she didn't look the same in any
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, so I don't I don't put a
Speaker 1: lot of stock in any of these. She was seen
Speaker 1: as far away as Mexico City, and in nineteen fifties
Speaker 1: she was supposedly seen with Davy Ogel and Frank Nicole
Speaker 1: in El Paso, Texas. That makes sense. I actually really
Speaker 1: like that one. Yeah, but I have holes with it,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure we'll talk. Yeah, I take that one
Speaker 1: with a green of salt. But well, we'll cover that.
Speaker 1: Why why I take that with a grain of salt
Speaker 1: later on when we talk about the theories. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: what was she up to that night before we get
Speaker 1: into the theories that the police, as you know, she
Speaker 1: was going to go check, go see the X, and
Speaker 1: then go make a movie. Police checked with the X
Speaker 1: and he said he hadn't seen her in weeks, and
Speaker 1: his new wife back up his alibi. They also checked
Speaker 1: her story that she was going to be filming on
Speaker 1: a movie set that night, and they checked apparently with
Speaker 1: all the movie companies around town, the Screen Extras Guild, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And apparently now she wasn't scheduled to work on any
Speaker 1: movies at night, and they weren't actually doing any movies
Speaker 1: that night apparently not. Yeah, and this this was back
Speaker 1: in the day too. They didn't They didn't do as
Speaker 1: much location filming back in the old days, especially I
Speaker 1: think probably at night, so they did a lot more
Speaker 1: studio stuff. That's what the backlot is for. One of
Speaker 1: the thing that they managed to unearth is they talked
Speaker 1: to a girlfriend of hers who said that Jean had
Speaker 1: told her that she was pregnant three months pregnant, and
Speaker 1: that led to speculation that when she left on Friday.
Speaker 1: She was actually going to go out and get an abortion,
Speaker 1: which is why she told all these lives about seeing
Speaker 1: the X and making a movie, which pretty standard in
Speaker 1: that that time frame because it was illegal. Though I
Speaker 1: don't know why you would loiter around a farmer's market
Speaker 1: for ninety minutes waiting for somebody. Yeah, but sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's not normally where you meet the doctor. Yeah, all
Speaker 1: is go to the kindly, the kindly farmer abortionist guy
Speaker 1: over there. So let's talk about some theories. A big
Speaker 1: time theory is remember the note said I'm going to
Speaker 1: see Dr Scott and other than everybody's the question on
Speaker 1: everybody's mind as well, was Dr Scott an abortionist? And
Speaker 1: did she die in in a bosched abortion? And to me,
Speaker 1: I don't really buy this because the movements that night
Speaker 1: suggests that she wasn't going up. I mean, you don't
Speaker 1: hang out in the farmer's market like you say, for
Speaker 1: ny minutes. And then there was a six hour gap
Speaker 1: between the farmer's market and the cheese box at one
Speaker 1: thirty that morning, and the cheese box is pretty much
Speaker 1: confirmed sighting. Is that true? I think so. I think so,
Speaker 1: but I'm not I'm not a convinced, but I was
Speaker 1: gonna say I questioned it because it's kind of like
Speaker 1: the guy at ninety im in the bar. It's a
Speaker 1: bunch of people in a bar. Yeah, And there's been
Speaker 1: times when I was out having a couple of drinks
Speaker 1: and I wasn't sure if I saw Joe. But wasn't
Speaker 1: it the waiter that it was? The one thirty am
Speaker 1: sighting was actually the restaurant manager, believe patron. Yeah, somebody's sober,
Speaker 1: So that's that's I put some weight on that, I guess.
Speaker 1: But still, assuming that was her, then there was plenty
Speaker 1: of time to perform an abortion. But she was seen
Speaker 1: alive and well at one thirty am. The other thing
Speaker 1: I don't I don't get is why would you dump
Speaker 1: the purse in the park rather than throwing it in
Speaker 1: a dumpster, especially with like a note like that, with
Speaker 1: an incriminating note with your name on it. I don't know, man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I was you know, I would
Speaker 1: definitely have gone through the purse to make sure my
Speaker 1: phone and my phone number, my name, not nothing that
Speaker 1: points to me was in there. I mean, wouldn't you
Speaker 1: that that? Well? I think We've talked about this before. Logically,
Speaker 1: from our perspective, that makes sense. But if you are
Speaker 1: frantic to cover up something, when people do frantic things,
Speaker 1: they don't think them through and they just stash something
Speaker 1: or you know, chuck it. Okay, but I guess, and
Speaker 1: the defense of Joe's thing and not to you know,
Speaker 1: like really go too deep and we don't. We don't.
Speaker 1: But you know, at this point in time, abortions were
Speaker 1: not illegal, but often botched. And if you are performing
Speaker 1: illegal abortions, it's likely that you've watched a couple, so
Speaker 1: you probably kind of know what to do. You're not
Speaker 1: going to have that like me to freak out. This
Speaker 1: is Yeah, that's all I will say about it, and
Speaker 1: I think we should move on to the next. Just
Speaker 1: one of the things though, is that that's just one
Speaker 1: other thing that he did. He did an excellent job
Speaker 1: of disposing of her body, which is a lot tougher
Speaker 1: than getting rid of a purse. He did. He did
Speaker 1: a bang up job of doing that, and then he
Speaker 1: screws up all over the place. Unlikely. Yeah, okay, next
Speaker 1: there her ex dexter Benner. They apparently there were some
Speaker 1: rumors of abuse during the relationship, and they had that
Speaker 1: nasty custody fight over the daughter, and he obviously wanted
Speaker 1: the doctor the daughter back, so murdering Jean would would
Speaker 1: be just the thing to do if you want to
Speaker 1: get your daughter back. But of course, as we said,
Speaker 1: he had an alibi, although it's not something I would
Speaker 1: consider rock solid, because you know your wife, your wife,
Speaker 1: wife might lie to Cara for you. Well, and here's
Speaker 1: the thing. He and his new wife had been married
Speaker 1: exactly almo just a month give her take a little bit,
Speaker 1: so of course she's going to cover for him. As
Speaker 1: soon as I read the wife said she was with
Speaker 1: him all night long, like, of course that's what you
Speaker 1: would say. I'm not saying that she's lying, but that
Speaker 1: is just one of those things that just automatically I
Speaker 1: have to question because so often people do that and
Speaker 1: get proved that they're lying. Yeah, and so yeah, you
Speaker 1: gotta take up with a grain of salt. But again,
Speaker 1: she lied about going to a movie, said so after
Speaker 1: after And that's why I'm not I'm not harping on
Speaker 1: it because she Jean has done some things that are
Speaker 1: throwing red flags everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I personal theory
Speaker 1: as to why she lied. Why why she lied about
Speaker 1: what she was gonna go do is that her mother
Speaker 1: was out of town, sister in law is visiting, and
Speaker 1: she's got a dump her kid on the sister in law. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's a young, stressed mother. Yea, yeah, okay, But but
Speaker 1: she probably thought a little embarrassed because she probably felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, she's my guest, she's here in town, you know,
Speaker 1: and and I should really be hanging out with her,
Speaker 1: and instead I want to go out in party or
Speaker 1: I want to go out in a date. So she lied,
Speaker 1: She said, I've got to go see my accident. I've
Speaker 1: got to go work on them. Let's be honest. We've
Speaker 1: all got family members who were super nice people that
Speaker 1: sucked to hang around. You're boring, Oh, why don't have
Speaker 1: to listen to you? All you talk about is this
Speaker 1: one thing? All you talk about is my dead brother,
Speaker 1: your dead husband and how much you miss him, Like
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure that there there's a lot of
Speaker 1: expres myriad reasons why she might want to ditcher. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so, but I think it was she just she
Speaker 1: just wanted to go out in party or do something.
Speaker 1: I don't know what. Um Anyway, so the X, I
Speaker 1: don't think she was going to see the ex and
Speaker 1: I tend to believe a story. They certainly never found
Speaker 1: any evidence, yeah, to support any of that stuff. Next
Speaker 1: theory blackmail. So she's pregnant with Kirk slow Child, Kirk
Speaker 1: Douglas or Kirk somebody. The girlfriend who told the police
Speaker 1: that Jean was pregnant also said that Jean told her
Speaker 1: that she was going to be coming into a lot
Speaker 1: of money soon. I didn't say how, are why, but
Speaker 1: I would suggest that she was expecting a big blackmail payoff. Huh.
Speaker 1: I never saw that. Yeah, she had been blackmail is
Speaker 1: somebody that would be a good motive to kill her? Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, maybe she wasn't blackmailing. And maybe maybe Kirk
Speaker 1: to say or whoever had gotten her pregnant. He had
Speaker 1: a lot of money and a lot of and he
Speaker 1: basically paid her off, basically said, look, if you have
Speaker 1: an abortion or whatever, I'll pay you twenty five dollars
Speaker 1: to just just go away now. And so she and
Speaker 1: so maybe that's what it was. There was no blackmail
Speaker 1: involved at all, that's possible. The problem is that still,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just I'm sorry, I'm just sitting here
Speaker 1: mulling it over, and I guess it is possible. I've
Speaker 1: seen probably too many Hollywood drama things, whether they're real
Speaker 1: or made by Hollywood, where that that stuff happens. So
Speaker 1: I can see some creedings in it. I don't really
Speaker 1: add a lot of sock to it, but I can
Speaker 1: see some creedens in it. Yeah, of course, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: makes a lot more sense just to pay somebody off
Speaker 1: rather than murder him, and because it's usually the easier route. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course. One one problem with this is there still
Speaker 1: the whole question of the purse, the purse, the purse
Speaker 1: with the incriminating note with Kirk's name on it. Of
Speaker 1: course it maybe wasn't a guy named Kirk, I mean,
Speaker 1: who knows, but there was the incriminating person note. And
Speaker 1: and why throw I throw at the park? Why not
Speaker 1: throw in the garbage? Can white white tear the handles
Speaker 1: off of it, which which would indicate set up a
Speaker 1: lot of red flags and which will indicate violence to
Speaker 1: the police. So that just doesn't make any sense. Okay,
Speaker 1: next theory, the black Dahlia killer did her in Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: so that happened like about three years before. Of course,
Speaker 1: you guys are familiar with that whole thing. This year,
Speaker 1: brunette actress, aspiring actress like like Gene Spangler was found
Speaker 1: murdered in a like in a vacant lot, and her
Speaker 1: body had been basically cut in two yeah, and it
Speaker 1: was hideous, like you know, And so they thought at
Speaker 1: first when she disappeared, they thought the black killer was
Speaker 1: still out there and the police, the police actually believed this,
Speaker 1: so though, um, wait, back up, So yeah, because my timeline,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember the black doll you murders happened
Speaker 1: before Gene di Spirit. Yeah, okay, the other way, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: somehow in my head I'd mixed it up, so it's
Speaker 1: just double checking. Yeah. But and so the police were
Speaker 1: really thinking this. But as time went by and a
Speaker 1: hideously mutilated body didn't turn up, the theory was pretty
Speaker 1: much put up to pasture. I don't know, I guess
Speaker 1: maybe you know you for three years to like perfect
Speaker 1: your craft or whatever, right, because I can kind of
Speaker 1: see like maybe the person who killed the black Dahlia
Speaker 1: is actually like has improved and got better at hiding
Speaker 1: a body that could also probably not. The next theory
Speaker 1: is it was collateral damage in a mobya, because as
Speaker 1: we know, she was hanging out with this monster guy,
Speaker 1: and so she just happened to be at the wrong
Speaker 1: place at the wrong time and there was a game
Speaker 1: one killing and she might have or they been cutting
Speaker 1: across fire, or maybe they just thought, well, she's a
Speaker 1: witness killer. So that's so that's a possibility. I'm not
Speaker 1: putting a little stock in that one. I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't know. There's no evidence that she was actually still
Speaker 1: hanging out with that guy, because again she was she
Speaker 1: had a new boyfriend, and so I don't know that
Speaker 1: she was seeing that what's his name, Davy davy Ogula. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't, so, I don't. I don't really put on
Speaker 1: a stock in this one. The next one is those
Speaker 1: two guys at the cheese box restaurant that she was
Speaker 1: arguing with. I'm guessing maybe she won the argument and
Speaker 1: that really ticked them off. Yeah yeah, I kinda dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, oh yeah, you won the argument, but we
Speaker 1: get the last word. Bang. Next theory, Lieutenant Scott. So
Speaker 1: the police turned up another interesting thing from her past.
Speaker 1: About four years before, while husband was off at the
Speaker 1: war and in the Pacific, Gene and had an affair
Speaker 1: with a guy named it was like an Air Corps lieutenant.
Speaker 1: His name was his last name was Scott. I guess
Speaker 1: she called her Scotty and apparently he was abusive. She
Speaker 1: wanted to leave him. He's threatened to kill her if
Speaker 1: if she did. She had actually managed to break it up,
Speaker 1: and last last time she saw him was in nine,
Speaker 1: four years before. There's no evidence that he became a doctor.
Speaker 1: Remember the notes that doctor going to see doctor Scott. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh that's right, because the cops like poured through and
Speaker 1: interrogated every doctor whose name last name was Scott. I
Speaker 1: thought they poured over an interrogated every doctor, not just Scott's.
Speaker 1: I thought they couldn't just hit every doctor. So they
Speaker 1: were after all the ones that had last name of Scott.
Speaker 1: But then the thing is that there's guys who do
Speaker 1: things on you know, on the slide that go by
Speaker 1: a code name. To Dr Scotty, he could mean anything, yeah,
Speaker 1: so's it could have been an abortionist, It could have
Speaker 1: been a dentist. I mean, it could have been who knows, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it could have been a vet. Yeah. Also, beside the
Speaker 1: fact that he wasn't a doctor, why would she go
Speaker 1: to see the guy. She was afraid of him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because he was a jerk, and she had stopped hanging
Speaker 1: out with him because, as you said, he was abusive. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so much for Lieutenant Scott. Next theory, she ran away
Speaker 1: from home. And this, remember davey Ogel disappeared at the
Speaker 1: same time she did, was led people to speculate that
Speaker 1: perhaps they had left town together to start a new life. Yeah. Now,
Speaker 1: don't like it. No, I don't either. She was dating
Speaker 1: a new guy, for one thing, and apparently she was
Speaker 1: happy about that, according to a witness. And I don't
Speaker 1: think she would have abandoned her daughter. I mean she
Speaker 1: called from the farmer's market. Yeah, I mean she exactly.
Speaker 1: She uh. I obviously cared about her daughter. Her daughter,
Speaker 1: she obviously if you read anything about or had a
Speaker 1: lot of shortcomings, I mean, you know. But well, the
Speaker 1: thing about Ogul is there's that one report that says
Speaker 1: that I think it was March of nineteen fifty is
Speaker 1: when they say that that she was quote unquote spotted
Speaker 1: somewhere in Texas fast Okay. Well, the funny thing is,
Speaker 1: unless she did have the pregnancy terminated, she'd have been
Speaker 1: about six or seven months pregnant at that time, So
Speaker 1: you would think that whoever had seen her and said,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's Gene and wow she's super pregnant. Instead
Speaker 1: it was just oh yeah, there's Gene. Yeah she looked
Speaker 1: like she always did, you know, Slim Dancer's body beautiful
Speaker 1: as can be. Unless she wasn't pregnant and that girlfriend
Speaker 1: was lying. I mean, it's totally possible, Like that's a
Speaker 1: very valid to theriend a girlfriend. Yeah, that's entirely possible.
Speaker 1: She was lying to Kirk too, to blackmail him. Maybe
Speaker 1: she just eating a lot of bond bonds. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: three months. I mean you can't really tell, but well
Speaker 1: that's why I know it. Three months, but it's six
Speaker 1: and seven. You can't hide that. Yeah, but I I
Speaker 1: guess I just generally assumed she wasn't actually pregnant. But hey,
Speaker 1: that's me highly possible she wasn't pregnant her mother after
Speaker 1: her mother got back and everything. Her mother, her mother
Speaker 1: also said that she would never abandoned her family, and
Speaker 1: so you know, you got you gotta believe her mother.
Speaker 1: Her mother obviously didn't know her that well because she
Speaker 1: was up to a lot of stuff that her mother
Speaker 1: wasn't like in on but well she's a twenty six
Speaker 1: year old. Of course you're going to do things that
Speaker 1: you don't tell your parents about. I mean that's just
Speaker 1: kind of this standard operating proceeds. I don't think that's
Speaker 1: just like a twenties thing. I think your whole life,
Speaker 1: you kind of just do things and like generally your
Speaker 1: parents don't necessarily need to know about that. Very true.
Speaker 1: A lot of things and I don't tell my family
Speaker 1: about it. I mean they're safful things that my whole
Speaker 1: family doesn't know about me, like for example, this podcast.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they don't know about it. I never will.
Speaker 1: Actually they probably will some day and when we become
Speaker 1: really famous famous. Oh that's right. Good point. Another problem
Speaker 1: I have with this theory that she ran off, either
Speaker 1: by herself or with Davey Oagel, is that she actually
Speaker 1: passed up a really good chance to make some money
Speaker 1: because her ex Dexter, who apparently was a plastics manufacturer,
Speaker 1: I had some money, wanted the daughter back, so she
Speaker 1: knew she was gonna blow down. And that means the
Speaker 1: daughter goes back to Dexter. Then why wouldn't she approach
Speaker 1: Dexter and say hey, and I'll give me a couple
Speaker 1: of grand and I'll give custody back to you. And
Speaker 1: that's well, there's a point there, but that also again
Speaker 1: that just circles me back to him, because of course,
Speaker 1: once she disappears, the court re awards him custody of
Speaker 1: their daughter, and he goes right back to his same
Speaker 1: old behavior of the grandmother is trying to visit the
Speaker 1: daughter and he keeps blocking it, not letting her see her.
Speaker 1: And I think that the mother tried to take some
Speaker 1: kind of legal action against him, at which point he
Speaker 1: just said oh, okay, great and left the state. Yeah,
Speaker 1: now he was gone. Good luck. He was sentenced to
Speaker 1: five days suspended in jail for for for not abiding
Speaker 1: by because because apparently it was the court ordered him
Speaker 1: to allow the grandfather grandmother to see the daughter, and
Speaker 1: then he continued to be obstructive, and so he was
Speaker 1: sentenced to fifteen days in jail, not suspended. And that's
Speaker 1: when he took the wife and and the daughter and
Speaker 1: left the state and moved to Florida, where he lived
Speaker 1: until he was eighty seven years old. Um, so there's
Speaker 1: just no good theories about this. But another another theory
Speaker 1: that I have. That's not really one that you see
Speaker 1: all over the internet. Is that. Uh, she perhaps was
Speaker 1: she perhaps had a sideline. Let's remember she was broke,
Speaker 1: super broke. Perhaps and I hate to say this, but
Speaker 1: perhaps she had a sideline to say, an escort. And
Speaker 1: she she was a dancer. She was a very attractive
Speaker 1: woman by I would say modern and classic standards. So
Speaker 1: it wasn't as if, you know, she couldn't have done that.
Speaker 1: I would also explain why she was sided with multiple
Speaker 1: of different men at the same location. Yeah, at night,
Speaker 1: it would all try Yeah, and then it would also
Speaker 1: explain why you would lie, right, you know, I want
Speaker 1: to tell people I'm gonna go I'm gonna go out
Speaker 1: and do a little prostitute. You know, Mom may just
Speaker 1: think that. Yeah, she goes and she does these night shoots,
Speaker 1: you know, two or three days a week, and you know,
Speaker 1: the studio is paying her pretty decently for being an
Speaker 1: extra in a night shoot, so what the heck? And
Speaker 1: you know, conveniently, none of those movies that were actually
Speaker 1: getting made right or well, no, they cut my scene sorry,
Speaker 1: which actually happens to people all the time. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was in an extra movie years ago, and I finally,
Speaker 1: years later, got around to watching the movie to see
Speaker 1: if I could find myself in because when I went
Speaker 1: to the set, it was a big crowd scene. So
Speaker 1: I wore a bright orange T shirt even so I
Speaker 1: could never find myself. Yeah, that's they cut my scene.
Speaker 1: Damn it. They were like, you know, we use the
Speaker 1: scene except there was that idiot orange shirt. The orange shirt. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was hilarious. It's huge crowd scene and
Speaker 1: it's like this, uh, this one guy, this roller coaster
Speaker 1: with George Siegel, Timothy Bottom. I have no idea that
Speaker 1: was never a blockbuster. Yeah, but there says one couple.
Speaker 1: They were kind of what's the sword on saying, kind
Speaker 1: of trashy looking and that kind of they kind of
Speaker 1: looked they were extras. They were among the extras that
Speaker 1: we were all extras and so and so there's a
Speaker 1: there's the guys with the bullhorns directing us around, telling
Speaker 1: us where to go. And at the end, up the
Speaker 1: beginning of the first scene, she climbs up on his
Speaker 1: shoulders and she's like all going like this is the
Speaker 1: wave of her arms in the air on his shoulders
Speaker 1: and everything, and uh, and then we're done. They stay cut,
Speaker 1: you know, and then the guy with the bullhorn goes
Speaker 1: out says, that's really awesome and I'm really nice. Touch
Speaker 1: what you guys, did you gonna have to do that
Speaker 1: in every take, every text today? Good job? Stupid. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that was a total total diversion there. Uh so,
Speaker 1: but as we know from our our our tends to
Speaker 1: research Jack the Ripper and my other things that if
Speaker 1: you if you engage back to the whole, she might
Speaker 1: have been an escort or prostitute kind of thing. Um,
Speaker 1: if you engage in that, well you run a chance
Speaker 1: that you're going to meet Mr. Serial killer. Well, and
Speaker 1: not even Mr. Serial killer. There's the crime of opportunity.
Speaker 1: Gentlemen who take upon those services aren't always in the
Speaker 1: clearest frame of mind. And I mean that from bold
Speaker 1: They're intoxicated on something, whether it be booze or drugs,
Speaker 1: or they're not always a square in the head. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's just these things happen, and that's why that that
Speaker 1: that profession and I'm using that term loosely, but that
Speaker 1: profession is not joriously dangerous, that kind of is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I think that it's it's entirely possible if this guy.
Speaker 1: I say, if she'd met up with a guy and
Speaker 1: the guy had wheels to get to to get to
Speaker 1: Griffith Park from there, if they were if she was
Speaker 1: still hanging out on Sunset where the cheese box was.
Speaker 1: To get to Griffith Park, it's a straight shot. You
Speaker 1: go east until you get to Western Avenue and they
Speaker 1: turn left, go north takes you straight there, and they're
Speaker 1: very easy. So you might have said, you know, let's
Speaker 1: let's go to some place a little more romantic than
Speaker 1: then Sunset Strip. Let's go up to Griffith Park and
Speaker 1: then what's up there? Well, you know, once she realizes
Speaker 1: that things are kind of going south and that his
Speaker 1: intentions aren't so good after all, then she tries to
Speaker 1: get away from him. He grabs her purse, She rips
Speaker 1: the rips it loose, he drops it, chases her down,
Speaker 1: and that's the end of the story. And he doesn't
Speaker 1: bother going back for the purse. The only thing is
Speaker 1: the note. The note, well, the note doesn't make any difference.
Speaker 1: This is a random dude. The still hasn't explained. It
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be though, I mean, it could just
Speaker 1: be a random something that she was writing to her
Speaker 1: friend that worked at the food cart at the at
Speaker 1: the the place. All. Yeah, well, but you know the
Speaker 1: other thing is that I know that this is gonna
Speaker 1: sound like I am just beating up on the Kirk
Speaker 1: Douglas theory again, But I just I really have a
Speaker 1: hard time letting go of that, only because of all
Speaker 1: of the stories of his bad behavior. And we'll leave
Speaker 1: out the whole story about a rape that he supposedly did.
Speaker 1: But he was notorious for being a player and knocking
Speaker 1: women around. He was known for for being that guy,
Speaker 1: so you know, and he went to houses of ill
Speaker 1: repute supposedly on a regular basis. I could see him
Speaker 1: being one of those dudes. He's like, Hey, you're a
Speaker 1: cute extra, don't you come to my trailer? And then
Speaker 1: when suddenly there's you know, a product of that union
Speaker 1: he's not doing, He's just like, well, well, I guess
Speaker 1: I could pay her off. You know what. No, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna pay her. I'm just gonna take care
Speaker 1: of this, or I'm gonna have somebody take care of it,
Speaker 1: which is then would give the guilty conscious why I
Speaker 1: would have Three days later, he called the cops. Know
Speaker 1: it's would have been about five. Yeah, suddenly he's just
Speaker 1: you know, freaking out, like, oh my god, I didn't
Speaker 1: think this would be this, you know, in the news
Speaker 1: so big. I gotta do something about it. I just
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time letting go of what
Speaker 1: I read about him and their connections. Seems very slight,
Speaker 1: I admit, but it's really hard for me to let
Speaker 1: go just from the things that I've read about him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the uh, I mean, definitely, if you wanted to get
Speaker 1: ahead in Hollywood, if you're if you are an aspiring
Speaker 1: actress in those days, the casting couch was pretty much
Speaker 1: a given for almost every actress in those days. And
Speaker 1: so it was and probably it wasn't just a studio
Speaker 1: the studio big wigs that you had sex with. You
Speaker 1: probably in order to get an in have a connection
Speaker 1: and have sex with Kirk Douglas or some famous was
Speaker 1: the top dog on the pot. Yeah he was. He
Speaker 1: was the man. Yeah, he was the Chuck Norris of
Speaker 1: the day. Oh my gosh, thank you, thank you, Chuck Norris.
Speaker 1: Can we can we move away from that? I'm sorry
Speaker 1: I brought that up. What's wrong with Chuck Norlash? Just
Speaker 1: keep going please? Right now? That we're done. Slandering Kirk Douglas.
Speaker 1: I guess I could wrap it up and you guys
Speaker 1: have any more thoughts? No, my slandering Kirk Douglas evidently
Speaker 1: was the only thing I had to say. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I just think it's a huge old mystery. It's a
Speaker 1: big volvable Joe thinks, big old Mr. Two I you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it may well be too that you never
Speaker 1: know who. I mean, because she was. She was in
Speaker 1: eight movies, uncredited of course, but I mean within eight
Speaker 1: whole movies. Yeah, had a total of four and a
Speaker 1: half minutes of film, if that much. But the thing
Speaker 1: about it is is in she was, she was attractive,
Speaker 1: and she probably attracted the attention of not just Kirk douglast,
Speaker 1: but probably some other movie star types. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean she may have had some things going on
Speaker 1: with other other Hollywood actors and air duels. I mean,
Speaker 1: so yeah, So maybe it wasn't Kirk douglist. It could
Speaker 1: have been a studio head. I don't know. Alright, Well,
Speaker 1: I think I think that was Well, we haven't quite
Speaker 1: solved this one. Was we'll put this, we'll make this
Speaker 1: almost there, but not quite. I'm going to give this
Speaker 1: three and a half stars Unsolved Radio. I think that's fair.
Speaker 1: Three and a half stars on scale of fifteen us
Speaker 1: about right. Yeah, uh so, folks, that's it for this week.
Speaker 1: Of course, you if you don't know where to find us,
Speaker 1: you can find us on iTunes. Please of course stop
Speaker 1: to give us a rating and maybe leave a little
Speaker 1: review something like that. We really like those. You can
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, and of course if you find
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, you have to like us. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: you don't have to be nice. And we have a
Speaker 1: group on Facebook too, don't Yes, you do, so, yeah,
Speaker 1: join the group. You can also find us on Stitcher,
Speaker 1: although if you found us on Stitcher you're probably not
Speaker 1: hearing this because Stitcher has developed this tendency to trunk
Speaker 1: aator episodes. That's something we're working on. But yeah, someday
Speaker 1: they will figure out what's going on. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: little frustrating. I'm sure it's even more frustrating for the
Speaker 1: people who are streaming our episodes. You can also send
Speaker 1: us an email. Are email address which is Stinking Sideways
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. You all have been great
Speaker 1: about that. A lot of lots of emails lately, and
Speaker 1: that don't so many suggestions. Yeah, lots of great suggestions.
Speaker 1: We try. We're kind of hitting this point right where
Speaker 1: we like try to have a good mix of like
Speaker 1: listener suggestions and things you've come up with. But at
Speaker 1: this point, you guys have like either recommended everything that
Speaker 1: I ever knew about, or like, there are so many
Speaker 1: piling up and I feel bad about not doing them.
Speaker 1: That just get ready because I think it's possible that,
Speaker 1: like for the next year all of my episodes are
Speaker 1: going to be listeners suggestions. Yeah, so sorry everywhere, you know,
Speaker 1: And I've got a few ideas for how we might
Speaker 1: handle some of that that well, we'll let everybody know
Speaker 1: once we suss it all out. Secrets. I'm always always
Speaker 1: scheming and planning. And I did that actually check the
Speaker 1: list of listener suggestions to see if somebody has suggested
Speaker 1: Gene Spangler. I know, I found this one on my own,
Speaker 1: so no, but like, you know, just this week, we
Speaker 1: got an email that I happened to be on and
Speaker 1: respond to, and you know, this person said, oh, I'd
Speaker 1: love to hear you tackle this mystery, and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: I was literally just thinking about doing that next week.
Speaker 1: That's why when I was researching Lori Erica, same check
Speaker 1: the email and it's like, yeah, can't you do this one?
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, I guess. I guess we'll get that,
Speaker 1: right too, I guess yeah, will you ask, we'll be
Speaker 1: And so also, if you want to find this episode
Speaker 1: somewhere and you don't want to go to itune just stitch,
Speaker 1: you can find it on our website because you're not
Speaker 1: listening to it right now. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so if you want to find future episodes, let me
Speaker 1: put it that way, taking Sideways podcast dot com. There
Speaker 1: you'll find links also, and um also there's a survey,
Speaker 1: so if you want to take a moment to fill
Speaker 1: up the survey, that would be really cool. It's not
Speaker 1: one of those long, tedious ones, right No, No, it's
Speaker 1: like it's like, you know, like like would you give
Speaker 1: your mail child Sideways podcast? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll take it right now. Yeah, me too. I gotta
Speaker 1: take it like fifty or sixty times. Yeah. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: why I was doing different every year. Yeah, okay, folks,
Speaker 1: Well that's it until next week for taking Sideways the podcast.
Speaker 1: This is Joe's signing off. I apologize for my co
Speaker 1: host Bye