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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't stories of things we simply don't

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Speaker 1: know the answer too. Well. Hi there, welcome to another

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Speaker 1: episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined as always by

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Speaker 1: and Steve. Yeah. So you guys ready to solve another mystery? Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's roll up our sleeves and start up solving. So,

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Speaker 1: so this week we're gonna talk about a person named

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Speaker 1: Jean Spangler Spangler, Jan Spengler. Yeah, so let's let's find

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Speaker 1: out what her mystery was. Okay. So she was a

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Speaker 1: dancer and a model who had also done some bit

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Speaker 1: parts in movies in the late nineteen forties, and she

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Speaker 1: lived in Los Angeles. She lived in a two bedroom

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Speaker 1: apartment with her mother, Florence, and her five year old

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Speaker 1: daughter Christine. Didn't she also live with her brother in Lawns.

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Speaker 1: I've seen that little that little nugget out there. But

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Speaker 1: apparently her brother was actually killed in the war, and

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Speaker 1: so they were still in good terms with her sister

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Speaker 1: in law, Sophie, and Sophie was from it was so

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Speaker 1: Sophie wasn't living there, but she was staying there. She

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Speaker 1: was from in from out of town on a visit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, that would have been pretty crowded to

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Speaker 1: have everybody living there a full time, you know, But

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Speaker 1: I think it happens. I think that's what I said,

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Speaker 1: like on the wiki page for this and had that

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Speaker 1: on there. I think that was inaccurate. A lot of

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Speaker 1: a lot of inaccurate stuff in Wikipedia. Yeah, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to Okay, that's back to our story here. At

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Speaker 1: the time that our story begins October nine, Jeans Spangler

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Speaker 1: was twenty six years old. Yeah, I know, and she

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Speaker 1: had she had been in eight different movies, all of

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Speaker 1: them uncredited. Yeah, I know. The shame. She had been

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Speaker 1: married briefly to a guy named Dexter Benner. They divorced

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Speaker 1: in nineteen six and they had a baby between a

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Speaker 1: child between them, Christine, and there was a nasty court battle,

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Speaker 1: and she eventually was awarded custody of the daughter and support.

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Speaker 1: Well didn't she have to? Wasn't an Initially they awarded

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Speaker 1: custody to the husband, but he was such a jerk

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Speaker 1: and kept denying her visitation that eventually said yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: the court eventually sided with her and they changed their

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Speaker 1: mind and gave custody. Hurt. Actually, the divorces interesting. They

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Speaker 1: were married for like four months. Initially, they got married

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Speaker 1: when she was nineteen, and they were married for four

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Speaker 1: months before they separated, and then saw each other on

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Speaker 1: and off for five years before they divorced. Yeah, come on, guys,

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Speaker 1: come on, I know that's sad. Kids today, yesterday, Okay,

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Speaker 1: back to our mystery. On October seven, Jean left her

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Speaker 1: daughter with with her sister in law, Sophie. Her mother

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Speaker 1: was out of town on visiting relatives in Kentucky, so

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Speaker 1: she said that she had to go see her X

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Speaker 1: about child support, which she apparently was laid on. Oh

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Speaker 1: I heard that she wanted to increase the Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: heard both of those things. Yeah. She also said that

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Speaker 1: after that she was going to go work on a

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Speaker 1: night shoot for a film, and uh, well, long story short,

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Speaker 1: she never came back. She never returned home, and no,

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Speaker 1: to this day, nobody knows what happened to her, or

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Speaker 1: probably somebody does, but they're not talking. Yeah. So the

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Speaker 1: next day, Sophie called the police. They took a report.

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Speaker 1: They didn't do anything because they figured, you know, it's Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: People are people are party and all. Probably yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so obviously they're not gonna waste their time. And again

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Speaker 1: Sophie is the sister. Sophie is a sister, just making

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Speaker 1: sure who was watching Christine the daughter, Christine's daughter exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the day after that Sunday ACTO or nine, Jean's

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Speaker 1: purse was found in Griffith Park by a park ranger.

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Speaker 1: The straps on one side had been torn off, would

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Speaker 1: suggests some sort of violence. Uh, And so this galvanized

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Speaker 1: the police into action. The next day they got together

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Speaker 1: a bunch of cops, like sixty cops and the hunters

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Speaker 1: plus volunteers and started combing Griffith Park and they found nothing.

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Speaker 1: I think the search one on for three or four days. Well,

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Speaker 1: and Griffith's Park is a bit was a big park.

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Speaker 1: It was like it's I think it's more than that.

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Speaker 1: I just remember it. It was just a huge area

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Speaker 1: to have to search. And I don't think they searched

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Speaker 1: the entire park. This is at one specific Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they comed the area around. Yeah, I'm sure they

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Speaker 1: won the ways, but yeah, that I mean searching that

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Speaker 1: entire park. Oh my god, they'd be like searching Forest

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Speaker 1: Park like yeah, it's huge, Yeah, it's really huge. Okay

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Speaker 1: back to the purse, Uh, it had no money, and

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Speaker 1: except for a silver dollar which was her lucky charm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah fail. Yeah, but her sister law said that she

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Speaker 1: had had no money and when she left on Friday,

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't look like roberts a motive and she

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Speaker 1: of course see that was when you're doing things like

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Speaker 1: having bit parts and as an extra in the movie,

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Speaker 1: you're not really making a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So everything there was an I D. And the usual

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Speaker 1: stuff you'll find your purse. The big, the big out

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Speaker 1: of interest was a note which read Kirk can't wait

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Speaker 1: any longer going to see Dr Scott. It will work

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Speaker 1: best this way while mother is away, and it ends

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Speaker 1: with a comma, as if she'd been interrupted while writing

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Speaker 1: writing it. Although I've seen a photograph of the note

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Speaker 1: and I can't really tell. It looks to me like

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Speaker 1: it could just easily be a period that Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: I don't really know. Although you would think you would

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Speaker 1: sign a letter, yeah, I was, I was, I was

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Speaker 1: taking there would at least be initials at the bottom

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Speaker 1: and signs nothing now yeah, so it does have a

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Speaker 1: certain unfinished quality to it. On October twelve, this was

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Speaker 1: the Tuesday following or not excuse me, The Wednesday, following

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Speaker 1: the LP you got a surprise phone call from none

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Speaker 1: other than Kirk Douglas. Kirk Douglass. You don't know Kirk douglast,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. Why do I know Kirk Douglas.

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Speaker 1: She's the father of Michael Douglas Spartacus Pass to Glory

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Speaker 1: PASTI glory. You are so killing me. The generational gap

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Speaker 1: really is making me feel old right now. Yeah, he was.

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Speaker 1: He was the one who was in Spartacus, not Michael Douglas,

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Speaker 1: was not the one that it was Kirkuk. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: then I know who he is. Yeah, okay, alright. It's

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Speaker 1: also sometimes just fun to do that blank stare with

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Speaker 1: you guys, so we both freak out. Not nice, it's fun,

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Speaker 1: it's fun. I did have heard of Kirk. Yeah. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: Kirk DA says, you all know it was a famous

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Speaker 1: movie star. So he phones him up just out of

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Speaker 1: the blue and tells him he totally was not the

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Speaker 1: Kirk that the note was addressed to. So he's just like, hey,

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Speaker 1: l A. P D. What's up. Yeah, that Kirk that

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Speaker 1: it's not me? Yeah, okay, that's suspicious. Maybe Yeah. James

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Speaker 1: Spangler had had a bit part of him movie recently

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Speaker 1: that Douglas started and called young Man with a Horn,

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Speaker 1: also starring Laura McCall and Doris Day, and apparently Delas

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Speaker 1: said that he had heard about it. Somebody that he

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Speaker 1: knew that he was acquainted with, had read about this,

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Speaker 1: recognized the name checked she was in the movie, and

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Speaker 1: mentioned it to him some studio exactly. Otherwise, Yeah, those

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Speaker 1: guys are probably always putting out little fires and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, you know, so they probably said, you said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, talk to you Laura, then call the cops

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Speaker 1: and get get out ahead of this story. So I'm sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is I mean, this is before like us Weekly

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Speaker 1: right then, like Kirk Douglas or well, there there's always

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Speaker 1: been those those Hollywood dirt rags though, where they're always

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Speaker 1: trying to find stuff about people. So you I can

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Speaker 1: imagine that they, as Joe put it, they're they're putting

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Speaker 1: out fires way ahead of time before those guys can

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Speaker 1: even get to Yeah, although I guess it seems like

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Speaker 1: the sort of thing that like you would figure out

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Speaker 1: a way, like your publicity manager would probably figure out

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Speaker 1: a way to like on the low down and let

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Speaker 1: the l a p. D. Know hey, we're just trying

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Speaker 1: to get out had this point, you know, it's not him,

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Speaker 1: instead of like personally phoning the l A p D

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Speaker 1: And being like, hey, guys, this is totally unsolicited, but

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Speaker 1: it's not me. Well it's it's really interesting too. So

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Speaker 1: he phones, like the senior investigator and I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: got some you know, some secretary or something or something

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Speaker 1: like that. Can I tell him he's calling Kirk Douglas. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: by the way, as your refrigerator running. Uh so, uh

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Speaker 1: he just he told the police that he remembered talking

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Speaker 1: to her on the set a little bit, but that

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Speaker 1: other than that, he didn't know her personally at all.

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Speaker 1: When Jean's mother got back from Kentucky, she told police

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Speaker 1: that Jean had actually dated a guy named Kirk and

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Speaker 1: had gone out with him at least twice, but that

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Speaker 1: she didn't know his last name and had never met

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Speaker 1: him and knew nothing about him. So that was it.

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Speaker 1: So it could have been another Kirk. Oh that's right,

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Speaker 1: that's right, because this guy he always he stayed in

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Speaker 1: the car and she out and met him, so the

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Speaker 1: mother never could get a good look at him. Well,

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Speaker 1: on the other hand, if I were famous actor Kirk Douglas.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that. I would be like, you probably

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Speaker 1: want to keep it on the day. Yeah, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be like flaunting it around. I don't know. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what his like marital girlfriend status was at the time,

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Speaker 1: but I believe he didn't have one. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I haven't done any research on him. Actually, I mean

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Speaker 1: I did a little bit, and I covered some some

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Speaker 1: unsavory thing. I'm sure we'll get into that later, but

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Speaker 1: I wasn't really got to bring that up very much

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Speaker 1: because I was so and then this is this episode

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Speaker 1: is not about Kirk Douglass anyway. Next scept his behavior

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Speaker 1: was my suspicious Gina. As far as dating, apparently she

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Speaker 1: was dating somebody knew at least a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: before her disappearance. Um and but it turned out that

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Speaker 1: the cops tracted and he turns out he was a

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Speaker 1: writer named Peter Brooks, so nobody named Kirk. All right,

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Speaker 1: that's the high level part of it. Now, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go I can get in a little bit more detail

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Speaker 1: without being tedious about it than nothing, of course, I know.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna give you a little a little brief

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Speaker 1: timeline here there her seventh five o'clock to five thirty,

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Speaker 1: and I've seen both of them, depending on where you

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Speaker 1: read about this. She leaves the apartment, she's gonna go

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Speaker 1: see her ax and then gonna go to a movie. Shoot. Uh,

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Speaker 1: six o'clock. She's seen at the farmer's market at Third

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Speaker 1: and Fair Fact, which is about eight hundred two thousand

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Speaker 1: feet in north of her apartment, so pretty close by.

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Speaker 1: And there was a clerk there who saw her hanging around,

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Speaker 1: said she was there for around ninety minutes, just browsing,

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Speaker 1: started hanging out, and the clerk said that he got

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Speaker 1: the impression that she was waiting for somebody. I didn't

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Speaker 1: talk to her, but just got that impression. And that's

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Speaker 1: how do you get that? Okay, Well, I don't understand that.

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Speaker 1: If it's a farmer's market, and I've been to farmers markets,

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Speaker 1: what do people do. They wander from booth to booth

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Speaker 1: and they check out the wares and the goods. So

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Speaker 1: what I don't get is how does that infer or

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Speaker 1: that I'm waiting for someone? I mean, I mean she

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Speaker 1: was probably like looking at her watch, or look checking

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Speaker 1: the door regularly or something like that. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that what we classify as a farmer's market isn't

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Speaker 1: Whether it is classified as a farmer's market in the

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Speaker 1: mid forties late I don't think. I don't think that

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Speaker 1: that's the same thing. I don't think it's the same

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Speaker 1: sort of like street hair situation. I'm not really sure, wrong,

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Speaker 1: but you know in l A they have that famous

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Speaker 1: it's not like a farmer's market, but it's kind of

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Speaker 1: a it's a mall that's attached to what used to

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Speaker 1: be a farmer's market, and it's it's booths and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, but it's really it's like lots of storefronts together.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember what it's called, right, and I'll be honest,

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Speaker 1: called the farmer's market place is still in the same spot.

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Speaker 1: It's still called the farmer's market. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it looks the same. It looks it looks kind of demolished,

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Speaker 1: but it looks like some of the buildings are kind

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Speaker 1: of old. There's a lot of new construction around it,

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Speaker 1: but it looks like at least a few of the

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Speaker 1: buildings are old wooden buildings. Yeah, I mean I think that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we're talking about the same kind of place.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe to the farmer's market. Maybe it's not, but

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's like booths. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: more like a boardwalk, I think, is maybe the way

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Speaker 1: that I would describe it. Lots of like storefronts, not

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Speaker 1: like somebody's just like brought their little car to food

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Speaker 1: and like set it up under a tent, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of what I think of with like a modern

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Speaker 1: day farmers you know. So I think you can kind

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Speaker 1: of say like it's all surrounded, you know, it surrounds

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Speaker 1: a square kind of area. It's easy to just kind

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Speaker 1: of be loitering and wandering, and especially if you're doing

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Speaker 1: it for ninety minutes and you really don't ever buy

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Speaker 1: anything and you kind of just are looking like it's

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Speaker 1: interestedly in things, I think it's easier to like you.

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Speaker 1: I think it's possible to say I'm sorry all that

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Speaker 1: to say. I think it's very possible to say it's

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Speaker 1: it'd be pretty easy to say that person was just

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Speaker 1: waiting for somebody. Yeah, long explanation, sorry, alright. Seven Back

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Speaker 1: to our timeline. Seven o'clock, She calls home to check

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Speaker 1: on her daughter and says that she'll be home later

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Speaker 1: and talked to Sophie of course. Yeah, so obviously from

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Speaker 1: a pay phone in the Farmer's market, because she didn't

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Speaker 1: leave there until about seven thirty Okay, by the time

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Speaker 1: she left, of course, it would be dark. I checked

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Speaker 1: sunset on that day. It was six thirty pm, let's

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Speaker 1: be specific. Yeah, and not that you know, not that

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Speaker 1: it matters all that much, but you know, it's just

250
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Speaker 1: easier to murder people when it's dark out. Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 1: Her next sighting was six hours later October, the wee

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Speaker 1: hours of October eight, Saturday morning, one thirty am, she

253
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Speaker 1: was seeing at a table in a restaurant called the

254
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Speaker 1: Cheese Box at Sunset and Laurel Canyon Um sitting with

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Speaker 1: the dark like a tall neat man as he was described,

256
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Speaker 1: with dark hair, thirty thirty five years old. And by

257
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Speaker 1: the way, the location of the Cheese Box is about

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Speaker 1: two miles north of her apartment, so far away from home. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she might have got a ride, cut a bus, but

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Speaker 1: she could have easily walked it in that time. How

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Speaker 1: I'm doubting she did. She was still at the Cheese Box.

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Speaker 1: Apparently at two thirty am a different eye wouldness saw

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Speaker 1: her there. But she was sitting sitting at a different

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Speaker 1: table and arguing with with a couple of guys. And

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Speaker 1: of course, let's some of these sightings. Let's let's face

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Speaker 1: it might not have been her after yeah, yeah, after yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I'm I'm pretty convinced the guy at the farmer's market,

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Speaker 1: since she lifts up close by, I probably knew her,

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Speaker 1: it was familiar with so that was probably an accurate one.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, early that morning, it's just kind of vague.

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Speaker 1: She A gas station attendant reported that a convertible with

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Speaker 1: a man and a woman pulled in for gas, and

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Speaker 1: of course, at this time, her disappearance had not yet

274
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Speaker 1: hit the papers, so he had but apparently she reportedly

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Speaker 1: looked like Jeanne, and the guy in the car said

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Speaker 1: that they were going to go to Fresno. And yet

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Speaker 1: as they drove away, the woman yelled, how the police

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Speaker 1: follow this car? So the attendant called the cops, but

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Speaker 1: the cops were not able to find the car. It

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00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 1: probably was a joke. You know, is your refrigerator running? Really?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like early morning. She's probably

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Speaker 1: drunk and just like think this would be whole area.

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Speaker 1: It's really like who's gonna how are they gonna? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that probably that stuck in his mind a

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Speaker 1: little bit, and finally when he picked up the papers

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Speaker 1: and saw her picture heard about the disappearance, he started

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00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 1: his memory. His memory probably played a little trick on

288
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Speaker 1: him there. But then at the same time, maybe it

289
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Speaker 1: was her. I'm doubting it. So it's Saturday, same Saturday,

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Speaker 1: somewhere between six pm and ten pm. Her purse is

291
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Speaker 1: dropped at the Ferndale entrance to Griffith Park, which is

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Speaker 1: three and a half miles northeast of the cheese Box,

293
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Speaker 1: and the timeline for that particular the one was. But

294
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Speaker 1: the guy who found it I think his name was

295
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Speaker 1: Henry Angle. He was a park ranger, and he didn't

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Speaker 1: find it until Sunday, the day after. And so I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure why he's so sure it's between six and ten.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe he was by there at at six

299
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Speaker 1: pm on Saturday and didn't see it there and then

300
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Speaker 1: and then maybe perhaps they closed the park at ten

301
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Speaker 1: o'clock and shut the gates. I don't know, And that's

302
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Speaker 1: the only way I can think of that he knew

303
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Speaker 1: that if they closed the gates it would have been

304
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Speaker 1: there and they would have seen it when they closed

305
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Speaker 1: the gates. Well, I don't think it now. I don't

306
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Speaker 1: think it was right by the gates. It was about

307
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,040
Speaker 1: ten feet inside the entrance here. So it just seems

308
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,600
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, you do a patrol, like if

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Speaker 1: you close the gates to a park, you you close

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Speaker 1: the gates. But but you know, I mean gates to

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Speaker 1: a park. I doubt mean that the thing is got

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Speaker 1: a cyclone fence around it, and it's a tall chain

313
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Speaker 1: link fence. It's probably just bars across the road. But

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Speaker 1: any any goofball can walk by or stop and throw

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Speaker 1: something into the bushes in totally totally. So yeah, I

316
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Speaker 1: think that I think that this this is kind of shaky.

317
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Speaker 1: And also I went and looked at the park entrance

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Speaker 1: on Google street View. You know, you know me, I

319
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Speaker 1: always have to do that every story. I didn't see

320
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Speaker 1: any evidence of massive, massive chain link fences or anything

321
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Speaker 1: like that. Well, I mean a park that big. I mean,

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Speaker 1: trying to close a park like that off, you forget it.

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Speaker 1: How you can close parks like that? You know they

324
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Speaker 1: do this with Washington Parker for Forest Park in Portland

325
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Speaker 1: closed the roads so that car traffic can't get through,

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Speaker 1: but pedestrian traffic there's no So they just don't even

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Speaker 1: try anymore. It's not worth it, Okay. Next to our timeline,

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Speaker 1: October nine, nine am, a Fresno man saw her in

329
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Speaker 1: a in a bar in Fresno with a man, and

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Speaker 1: so apparently once again, so this is October nine, she

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Speaker 1: still has not hit the papers. Apparently she was saying

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Speaker 1: she was his nine am. She's sitting in the bar

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Speaker 1: with a guy and said something on the order of like,

334
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Speaker 1: you know, I just had the worst night of my life.

335
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:33,959
Speaker 1: I don't she said that to this guy or if

336
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Speaker 1: he overheard her saying it. I think I think he

337
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,400
Speaker 1: overheard her. Uh, And so I don't really, I don't

338
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Speaker 1: really believe Again, this guy, this guy was hanging out

339
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Speaker 1: the bar, probably had had a few of himself at

340
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,480
Speaker 1: nine a less seriously, that might be one reason the

341
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,679
Speaker 1: police discounted this and didn't take it too seriously. Okay,

342
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 1: So anyway, that same day the purse is found, and

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Speaker 1: of course that guess the police all hot and bo

344
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Speaker 1: there and they started to search the next day, Monday, October.

345
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,200
Speaker 1: That same day, October ten, David ogul Uh, who was

346
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Speaker 1: a guy that Jean reportedly dated for a while or

347
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,679
Speaker 1: hung out with at least he disappeared too. He was

348
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 1: an associate of an l A gangster named Mickey Cohen,

349
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,280
Speaker 1: another one of his another one of the gang, Frank Nicole,

350
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,440
Speaker 1: had managed about a month before. But these guys actually

351
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,159
Speaker 1: had reasons to vanish. They were under indictment. Trying to

352
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 1: remember what they were indicted for. Conspiracy was the official

353
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,560
Speaker 1: chart for that. I don't know. Conspiracy to what you know,

354
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,320
Speaker 1: I mean, conspire about all sorts of things. Hard to tell.

355
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 1: May I remember seeing that and looking at it, to

356
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,919
Speaker 1: the life of me, remember what it was. Yeah. October eleventh,

357
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 1: Jean was cited by three three waitresses at a restaurant

358
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: in Monterey. You guys know where water is, right, California? Yeah,

359
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,959
Speaker 1: somewhere in California. I just wanted to make sure we

360
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,439
Speaker 1: were talking, still talking about California. Still in California. But

361
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,400
Speaker 1: that's that's a ways up the coast from l It's

362
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,120
Speaker 1: almost to San Francisco. Well, I mean it's not as

363
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 1: though you can't like drive that far. I mean technically

364
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: drive from Portland to l A in one day. Yeah, Yeah,

365
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,000
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to try to remember the speed of

366
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 1: travel of cars in the roads at that time. But

367
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Speaker 1: given a couple of days l A to the Bay Area.

368
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 1: I'm not just because we go to Portland, l A.

369
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,400
Speaker 1: In a day now doesn't mean that was the case before.

370
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: But to say, like it seems impossible that she could

371
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,880
Speaker 1: have made a depressn terray like and a half. Yeah,

372
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,920
Speaker 1: even without inter State five, it could be done. So

373
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Speaker 1: her next setting October twelfth, so somebody reported that he

374
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,920
Speaker 1: saw her at a bus depot in Stockton. I actually

375
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 1: don't know where Stockton is, California, central central California, like

376
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:54,160
Speaker 1: just like maybe a hundred miles east of San Francisco. Okay, yeah, yeah.

377
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,160
Speaker 1: Of course on that same day that the famous movie

378
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 1: guy Kirt Doutlist called the police up its where it

379
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:03,480
Speaker 1: totally wasn't him in that note. Next day, October, she

380
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 1: sided Geane. That is a sided in North Hollywood by

381
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: Shirley Anne Morris, who was a thirteen year old girl

382
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 1: who knew Gene. Apparently they were friends, and so this

383
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: might be a more reliable sighting. Although what she was

384
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 1: doing hanging out in North Hollywood I don't know, But

385
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 1: apparently Shirley saw her in a car with an older

386
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 1: looking guy, and she looked nervous and frightened. I bet

387
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: Shirley was an actress. Don't you think she was also

388
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 1: like a bit actress? Don't you think? I mean? I

389
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: think I thought she was a schoolgirl. But hey, maybe

390
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 1: maybe that's how they knew each other from the movies.

391
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,879
Speaker 1: From she that she had done some bit parts in movies,

392
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,920
Speaker 1: that she had also been a bit part. Maybe Jean

393
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: played her mom once they but that might be a

394
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: more reliable sighting. I don't know. And after that, no,

395
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 1: no major sightings reported. In October eighteenth, the police called

396
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:50,760
Speaker 1: off the investigation. Yeah, they said they believed that she

397
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 1: had just taken off and was ten days later, right,

398
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 1: that let's be they didn't. They didn't really start their

399
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: investigation until the ninth, nine days later. Yeah cool. Yeah, Hey, guys,

400
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,880
Speaker 1: if I ever disappear, I want you to make sure

401
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 1: that police look for me for longer than nine days.

402
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 1: We'll make sure they go at least ten. That seems

403
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: reasonable is an acceptable number. Yeah, I just see it now.

404
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 1: We're we will not let you quit. We will not

405
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,960
Speaker 1: let you abandoned her until tomorrow. As time went by,

406
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 1: they continue to receive reports of sighting from all over

407
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: the sightings of Jane from all over the country, as

408
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 1: tends to happen, she was also like an attractive but

409
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: fairly nondescript white female. Yeah, I would say that would

410
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: be very easy to mistake her for a lot of

411
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: other people. Yeah. He was looking at the pictures of

412
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 1: her from the number of movies that she was in,

413
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,400
Speaker 1: and she was probably great as an extra because she

414
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 1: didn't have a defining look. She's not going to steal

415
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: the scene from the main star. You change your hair,

416
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 1: she looks completely different. You change your makeup, she looked

417
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: completely different. I'm looking at somebody had a collage of

418
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: her photos, and she didn't look the same in any

419
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,159
Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, so I don't I don't put a

420
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: lot of stock in any of these. She was seen

421
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 1: as far away as Mexico City, and in nineteen fifties

422
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 1: she was supposedly seen with Davy Ogel and Frank Nicole

423
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: in El Paso, Texas. That makes sense. I actually really

424
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: like that one. Yeah, but I have holes with it,

425
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,720
Speaker 1: but I'm sure we'll talk. Yeah, I take that one

426
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: with a green of salt. But well, we'll cover that.

427
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,960
Speaker 1: Why why I take that with a grain of salt

428
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 1: later on when we talk about the theories. Yeah, so

429
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: what was she up to that night before we get

430
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: into the theories that the police, as you know, she

431
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: was going to go check, go see the X, and

432
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: then go make a movie. Police checked with the X

433
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: and he said he hadn't seen her in weeks, and

434
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 1: his new wife back up his alibi. They also checked

435
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: her story that she was going to be filming on

436
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: a movie set that night, and they checked apparently with

437
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: all the movie companies around town, the Screen Extras Guild, etcetera.

438
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: And apparently now she wasn't scheduled to work on any

439
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 1: movies at night, and they weren't actually doing any movies

440
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: that night apparently not. Yeah, and this this was back

441
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: in the day too. They didn't They didn't do as

442
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 1: much location filming back in the old days, especially I

443
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 1: think probably at night, so they did a lot more

444
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 1: studio stuff. That's what the backlot is for. One of

445
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 1: the thing that they managed to unearth is they talked

446
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 1: to a girlfriend of hers who said that Jean had

447
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 1: told her that she was pregnant three months pregnant, and

448
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: that led to speculation that when she left on Friday.

449
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 1: She was actually going to go out and get an abortion,

450
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: which is why she told all these lives about seeing

451
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: the X and making a movie, which pretty standard in

452
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 1: that that time frame because it was illegal. Though I

453
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: don't know why you would loiter around a farmer's market

454
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: for ninety minutes waiting for somebody. Yeah, but sure, yeah,

455
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,640
Speaker 1: that's not normally where you meet the doctor. Yeah, all

456
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: is go to the kindly, the kindly farmer abortionist guy

457
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: over there. So let's talk about some theories. A big

458
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: time theory is remember the note said I'm going to

459
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: see Dr Scott and other than everybody's the question on

460
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: everybody's mind as well, was Dr Scott an abortionist? And

461
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 1: did she die in in a bosched abortion? And to me,

462
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: I don't really buy this because the movements that night

463
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: suggests that she wasn't going up. I mean, you don't

464
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: hang out in the farmer's market like you say, for

465
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,400
Speaker 1: ny minutes. And then there was a six hour gap

466
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: between the farmer's market and the cheese box at one

467
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 1: thirty that morning, and the cheese box is pretty much

468
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: confirmed sighting. Is that true? I think so. I think so,

469
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: but I'm not I'm not a convinced, but I was

470
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: gonna say I questioned it because it's kind of like

471
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: the guy at ninety im in the bar. It's a

472
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 1: bunch of people in a bar. Yeah, And there's been

473
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: times when I was out having a couple of drinks

474
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: and I wasn't sure if I saw Joe. But wasn't

475
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: it the waiter that it was? The one thirty am

476
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: sighting was actually the restaurant manager, believe patron. Yeah, somebody's sober,

477
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 1: So that's that's I put some weight on that, I guess.

478
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: But still, assuming that was her, then there was plenty

479
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: of time to perform an abortion. But she was seen

480
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: alive and well at one thirty am. The other thing

481
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: I don't I don't get is why would you dump

482
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: the purse in the park rather than throwing it in

483
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: a dumpster, especially with like a note like that, with

484
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: an incriminating note with your name on it. I don't know, man, Yeah,

485
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I was you know, I would

486
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 1: definitely have gone through the purse to make sure my

487
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: phone and my phone number, my name, not nothing that

488
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: points to me was in there. I mean, wouldn't you

489
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,959
Speaker 1: that that? Well? I think We've talked about this before. Logically,

490
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: from our perspective, that makes sense. But if you are

491
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: frantic to cover up something, when people do frantic things,

492
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: they don't think them through and they just stash something

493
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: or you know, chuck it. Okay, but I guess, and

494
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: the defense of Joe's thing and not to you know,

495
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: like really go too deep and we don't. We don't.

496
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 1: But you know, at this point in time, abortions were

497
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: not illegal, but often botched. And if you are performing

498
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: illegal abortions, it's likely that you've watched a couple, so

499
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: you probably kind of know what to do. You're not

500
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 1: going to have that like me to freak out. This

501
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: is Yeah, that's all I will say about it, and

502
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: I think we should move on to the next. Just

503
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 1: one of the things though, is that that's just one

504
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: other thing that he did. He did an excellent job

505
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: of disposing of her body, which is a lot tougher

506
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: than getting rid of a purse. He did. He did

507
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: a bang up job of doing that, and then he

508
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:27,880
Speaker 1: screws up all over the place. Unlikely. Yeah, okay, next

509
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: there her ex dexter Benner. They apparently there were some

510
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: rumors of abuse during the relationship, and they had that

511
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: nasty custody fight over the daughter, and he obviously wanted

512
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: the doctor the daughter back, so murdering Jean would would

513
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: be just the thing to do if you want to

514
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: get your daughter back. But of course, as we said,

515
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 1: he had an alibi, although it's not something I would

516
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: consider rock solid, because you know your wife, your wife,

517
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: wife might lie to Cara for you. Well, and here's

518
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: the thing. He and his new wife had been married

519
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: exactly almo just a month give her take a little bit,

520
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: so of course she's going to cover for him. As

521
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: soon as I read the wife said she was with

522
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: him all night long, like, of course that's what you

523
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: would say. I'm not saying that she's lying, but that

524
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: is just one of those things that just automatically I

525
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: have to question because so often people do that and

526
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: get proved that they're lying. Yeah, and so yeah, you

527
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: gotta take up with a grain of salt. But again,

528
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: she lied about going to a movie, said so after

529
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: after And that's why I'm not I'm not harping on

530
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: it because she Jean has done some things that are

531
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: throwing red flags everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I personal theory

532
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: as to why she lied. Why why she lied about

533
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: what she was gonna go do is that her mother

534
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: was out of town, sister in law is visiting, and

535
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: she's got a dump her kid on the sister in law. Yeah. Yeah,

536
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: she's a young, stressed mother. Yea, yeah, okay, But but

537
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: she probably thought a little embarrassed because she probably felt like,

538
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: you know, she's my guest, she's here in town, you know,

539
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: and and I should really be hanging out with her,

540
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: and instead I want to go out in party or

541
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: I want to go out in a date. So she lied,

542
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: She said, I've got to go see my accident. I've

543
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: got to go work on them. Let's be honest. We've

544
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: all got family members who were super nice people that

545
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: sucked to hang around. You're boring, Oh, why don't have

546
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: to listen to you? All you talk about is this

547
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: one thing? All you talk about is my dead brother,

548
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: your dead husband and how much you miss him, Like

549
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure that there there's a lot of

550
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: expres myriad reasons why she might want to ditcher. Yeah,

551
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: and so, but I think it was she just she

552
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: just wanted to go out in party or do something.

553
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: I don't know what. Um Anyway, so the X, I

554
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: don't think she was going to see the ex and

555
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: I tend to believe a story. They certainly never found

556
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: any evidence, yeah, to support any of that stuff. Next

557
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: theory blackmail. So she's pregnant with Kirk slow Child, Kirk

558
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: Douglas or Kirk somebody. The girlfriend who told the police

559
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: that Jean was pregnant also said that Jean told her

560
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: that she was going to be coming into a lot

561
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: of money soon. I didn't say how, are why, but

562
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: I would suggest that she was expecting a big blackmail payoff. Huh.

563
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 1: I never saw that. Yeah, she had been blackmail is

564
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: somebody that would be a good motive to kill her? Yeah,

565
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: of course, maybe she wasn't blackmailing. And maybe maybe Kirk

566
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,719
Speaker 1: to say or whoever had gotten her pregnant. He had

567
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: a lot of money and a lot of and he

568
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 1: basically paid her off, basically said, look, if you have

569
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: an abortion or whatever, I'll pay you twenty five dollars

570
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: to just just go away now. And so she and

571
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: so maybe that's what it was. There was no blackmail

572
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: involved at all, that's possible. The problem is that still,

573
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,479
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just I'm sorry, I'm just sitting here

574
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: mulling it over, and I guess it is possible. I've

575
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: seen probably too many Hollywood drama things, whether they're real

576
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: or made by Hollywood, where that that stuff happens. So

577
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: I can see some creedings in it. I don't really

578
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: add a lot of sock to it, but I can

579
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: see some creedens in it. Yeah, of course, Yeah, it

580
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: makes a lot more sense just to pay somebody off

581
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: rather than murder him, and because it's usually the easier route. Yeah,

582
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: of course. One one problem with this is there still

583
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: the whole question of the purse, the purse, the purse

584
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: with the incriminating note with Kirk's name on it. Of

585
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: course it maybe wasn't a guy named Kirk, I mean,

586
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 1: who knows, but there was the incriminating person note. And

587
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: and why throw I throw at the park? Why not

588
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: throw in the garbage? Can white white tear the handles

589
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: off of it, which which would indicate set up a

590
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 1: lot of red flags and which will indicate violence to

591
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: the police. So that just doesn't make any sense. Okay,

592
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: next theory, the black Dahlia killer did her in Oh, yeah,

593
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: so that happened like about three years before. Of course,

594
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: you guys are familiar with that whole thing. This year,

595
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: brunette actress, aspiring actress like like Gene Spangler was found

596
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 1: murdered in a like in a vacant lot, and her

597
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: body had been basically cut in two yeah, and it

598
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: was hideous, like you know, And so they thought at

599
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: first when she disappeared, they thought the black killer was

600
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: still out there and the police, the police actually believed this,

601
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: so though, um, wait, back up, So yeah, because my timeline,

602
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember the black doll you murders happened

603
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: before Gene di Spirit. Yeah, okay, the other way, right, Okay,

604
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: somehow in my head I'd mixed it up, so it's

605
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: just double checking. Yeah. But and so the police were

606
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: really thinking this. But as time went by and a

607
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: hideously mutilated body didn't turn up, the theory was pretty

608
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: much put up to pasture. I don't know, I guess

609
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: maybe you know you for three years to like perfect

610
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: your craft or whatever, right, because I can kind of

611
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: see like maybe the person who killed the black Dahlia

612
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: is actually like has improved and got better at hiding

613
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: a body that could also probably not. The next theory

614
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: is it was collateral damage in a mobya, because as

615
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: we know, she was hanging out with this monster guy,

616
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: and so she just happened to be at the wrong

617
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: place at the wrong time and there was a game

618
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: one killing and she might have or they been cutting

619
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: across fire, or maybe they just thought, well, she's a

620
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 1: witness killer. So that's so that's a possibility. I'm not

621
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: putting a little stock in that one. I don't. I

622
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: don't know. There's no evidence that she was actually still

623
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: hanging out with that guy, because again she was she

624
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 1: had a new boyfriend, and so I don't know that

625
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: she was seeing that what's his name, Davy davy Ogula. Yeah,

626
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 1: I don't, so, I don't. I don't really put on

627
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: a stock in this one. The next one is those

628
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: two guys at the cheese box restaurant that she was

629
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: arguing with. I'm guessing maybe she won the argument and

630
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 1: that really ticked them off. Yeah yeah, I kinda dead.

631
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: Yeah okay, oh yeah, you won the argument, but we

632
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: get the last word. Bang. Next theory, Lieutenant Scott. So

633
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: the police turned up another interesting thing from her past.

634
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: About four years before, while husband was off at the

635
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: war and in the Pacific, Gene and had an affair

636
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: with a guy named it was like an Air Corps lieutenant.

637
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 1: His name was his last name was Scott. I guess

638
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: she called her Scotty and apparently he was abusive. She

639
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: wanted to leave him. He's threatened to kill her if

640
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: if she did. She had actually managed to break it up,

641
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: and last last time she saw him was in nine,

642
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 1: four years before. There's no evidence that he became a doctor.

643
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: Remember the notes that doctor going to see doctor Scott. Yeah,

644
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: oh that's right, because the cops like poured through and

645
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: interrogated every doctor whose name last name was Scott. I

646
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: thought they poured over an interrogated every doctor, not just Scott's.

647
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: I thought they couldn't just hit every doctor. So they

648
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: were after all the ones that had last name of Scott.

649
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: But then the thing is that there's guys who do

650
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: things on you know, on the slide that go by

651
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: a code name. To Dr Scotty, he could mean anything, yeah,

652
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: so's it could have been an abortionist, It could have

653
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 1: been a dentist. I mean, it could have been who knows, Yeah, yeah,

654
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: it could have been a vet. Yeah. Also, beside the

655
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: fact that he wasn't a doctor, why would she go

656
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: to see the guy. She was afraid of him, Yeah,

657
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: because he was a jerk, and she had stopped hanging

658
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: out with him because, as you said, he was abusive. Yeah, okay,

659
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: so much for Lieutenant Scott. Next theory, she ran away

660
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: from home. And this, remember davey Ogel disappeared at the

661
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: same time she did, was led people to speculate that

662
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: perhaps they had left town together to start a new life. Yeah. Now,

663
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,959
Speaker 1: don't like it. No, I don't either. She was dating

664
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: a new guy, for one thing, and apparently she was

665
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: happy about that, according to a witness. And I don't

666
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: think she would have abandoned her daughter. I mean she

667
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: called from the farmer's market. Yeah, I mean she exactly.

668
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 1: She uh. I obviously cared about her daughter. Her daughter,

669
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: she obviously if you read anything about or had a

670
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: lot of shortcomings, I mean, you know. But well, the

671
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: thing about Ogul is there's that one report that says

672
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: that I think it was March of nineteen fifty is

673
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: when they say that that she was quote unquote spotted

674
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: somewhere in Texas fast Okay. Well, the funny thing is,

675
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 1: unless she did have the pregnancy terminated, she'd have been

676
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: about six or seven months pregnant at that time, So

677
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 1: you would think that whoever had seen her and said,

678
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: oh yeah, that's Gene and wow she's super pregnant. Instead

679
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: it was just oh yeah, there's Gene. Yeah she looked

680
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 1: like she always did, you know, Slim Dancer's body beautiful

681
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: as can be. Unless she wasn't pregnant and that girlfriend

682
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: was lying. I mean, it's totally possible, Like that's a

683
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: very valid to theriend a girlfriend. Yeah, that's entirely possible.

684
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,919
Speaker 1: She was lying to Kirk too, to blackmail him. Maybe

685
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: she just eating a lot of bond bonds. Yeah, yeah,

686
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: three months. I mean you can't really tell, but well

687
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: that's why I know it. Three months, but it's six

688
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,839
Speaker 1: and seven. You can't hide that. Yeah, but I I

689
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: guess I just generally assumed she wasn't actually pregnant. But hey,

690
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,439
Speaker 1: that's me highly possible she wasn't pregnant her mother after

691
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 1: her mother got back and everything. Her mother, her mother

692
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: also said that she would never abandoned her family, and

693
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: so you know, you got you gotta believe her mother.

694
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: Her mother obviously didn't know her that well because she

695
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: was up to a lot of stuff that her mother

696
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: wasn't like in on but well she's a twenty six

697
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: year old. Of course you're going to do things that

698
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 1: you don't tell your parents about. I mean that's just

699
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: kind of this standard operating proceeds. I don't think that's

700
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: just like a twenties thing. I think your whole life,

701
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: you kind of just do things and like generally your

702
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: parents don't necessarily need to know about that. Very true.

703
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: A lot of things and I don't tell my family

704
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: about it. I mean they're safful things that my whole

705
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: family doesn't know about me, like for example, this podcast.

706
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, they don't know about it. I never will.

707
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: Actually they probably will some day and when we become

708
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 1: really famous famous. Oh that's right. Good point. Another problem

709
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: I have with this theory that she ran off, either

710
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: by herself or with Davey Oagel, is that she actually

711
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: passed up a really good chance to make some money

712
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: because her ex Dexter, who apparently was a plastics manufacturer,

713
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: I had some money, wanted the daughter back, so she

714
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 1: knew she was gonna blow down. And that means the

715
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: daughter goes back to Dexter. Then why wouldn't she approach

716
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: Dexter and say hey, and I'll give me a couple

717
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: of grand and I'll give custody back to you. And

718
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 1: that's well, there's a point there, but that also again

719
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: that just circles me back to him, because of course,

720
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: once she disappears, the court re awards him custody of

721
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: their daughter, and he goes right back to his same

722
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: old behavior of the grandmother is trying to visit the

723
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: daughter and he keeps blocking it, not letting her see her.

724
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: And I think that the mother tried to take some

725
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: kind of legal action against him, at which point he

726
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: just said oh, okay, great and left the state. Yeah,

727
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: now he was gone. Good luck. He was sentenced to

728
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: five days suspended in jail for for for not abiding

729
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: by because because apparently it was the court ordered him

730
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: to allow the grandfather grandmother to see the daughter, and

731
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: then he continued to be obstructive, and so he was

732
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: sentenced to fifteen days in jail, not suspended. And that's

733
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: when he took the wife and and the daughter and

734
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: left the state and moved to Florida, where he lived

735
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: until he was eighty seven years old. Um, so there's

736
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: just no good theories about this. But another another theory

737
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: that I have. That's not really one that you see

738
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: all over the internet. Is that. Uh, she perhaps was

739
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: she perhaps had a sideline. Let's remember she was broke,

740
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: super broke. Perhaps and I hate to say this, but

741
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: perhaps she had a sideline to say, an escort. And

742
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: she she was a dancer. She was a very attractive

743
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: woman by I would say modern and classic standards. So

744
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,399
Speaker 1: it wasn't as if, you know, she couldn't have done that.

745
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 1: I would also explain why she was sided with multiple

746
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: of different men at the same location. Yeah, at night,

747
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: it would all try Yeah, and then it would also

748
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: explain why you would lie, right, you know, I want

749
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: to tell people I'm gonna go I'm gonna go out

750
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: and do a little prostitute. You know, Mom may just

751
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: think that. Yeah, she goes and she does these night shoots,

752
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 1: you know, two or three days a week, and you know,

753
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 1: the studio is paying her pretty decently for being an

754
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: extra in a night shoot, so what the heck? And

755
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: you know, conveniently, none of those movies that were actually

756
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: getting made right or well, no, they cut my scene sorry,

757
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,840
Speaker 1: which actually happens to people all the time. Yeah, I

758
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: was in an extra movie years ago, and I finally,

759
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: years later, got around to watching the movie to see

760
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: if I could find myself in because when I went

761
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 1: to the set, it was a big crowd scene. So

762
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: I wore a bright orange T shirt even so I

763
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: could never find myself. Yeah, that's they cut my scene.

764
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 1: Damn it. They were like, you know, we use the

765
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 1: scene except there was that idiot orange shirt. The orange shirt. Yeah,

766
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 1: it was. It was hilarious. It's huge crowd scene and

767
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: it's like this, uh, this one guy, this roller coaster

768
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: with George Siegel, Timothy Bottom. I have no idea that

769
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 1: was never a blockbuster. Yeah, but there says one couple.

770
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,359
Speaker 1: They were kind of what's the sword on saying, kind

771
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: of trashy looking and that kind of they kind of

772
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: looked they were extras. They were among the extras that

773
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: we were all extras and so and so there's a

774
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 1: there's the guys with the bullhorns directing us around, telling

775
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 1: us where to go. And at the end, up the

776
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 1: beginning of the first scene, she climbs up on his

777
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: shoulders and she's like all going like this is the

778
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: wave of her arms in the air on his shoulders

779
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 1: and everything, and uh, and then we're done. They stay cut,

780
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: you know, and then the guy with the bullhorn goes

781
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: out says, that's really awesome and I'm really nice. Touch

782
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: what you guys, did you gonna have to do that

783
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: in every take, every text today? Good job? Stupid. Yeah,

784
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: I know that was a total total diversion there. Uh so,

785
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: but as we know from our our our tends to

786
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: research Jack the Ripper and my other things that if

787
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: you if you engage back to the whole, she might

788
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: have been an escort or prostitute kind of thing. Um,

789
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,240
Speaker 1: if you engage in that, well you run a chance

790
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: that you're going to meet Mr. Serial killer. Well, and

791
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: not even Mr. Serial killer. There's the crime of opportunity.

792
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 1: Gentlemen who take upon those services aren't always in the

793
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: clearest frame of mind. And I mean that from bold

794
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 1: They're intoxicated on something, whether it be booze or drugs,

795
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: or they're not always a square in the head. I mean,

796
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: there's just these things happen, and that's why that that

797
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: that profession and I'm using that term loosely, but that

798
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: profession is not joriously dangerous, that kind of is. Yeah,

799
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: So I think that it's it's entirely possible if this guy.

800
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: I say, if she'd met up with a guy and

801
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: the guy had wheels to get to to get to

802
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: Griffith Park from there, if they were if she was

803
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: still hanging out on Sunset where the cheese box was.

804
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: To get to Griffith Park, it's a straight shot. You

805
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: go east until you get to Western Avenue and they

806
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: turn left, go north takes you straight there, and they're

807
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 1: very easy. So you might have said, you know, let's

808
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: let's go to some place a little more romantic than

809
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: then Sunset Strip. Let's go up to Griffith Park and

810
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: then what's up there? Well, you know, once she realizes

811
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 1: that things are kind of going south and that his

812
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: intentions aren't so good after all, then she tries to

813
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: get away from him. He grabs her purse, She rips

814
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 1: the rips it loose, he drops it, chases her down,

815
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: and that's the end of the story. And he doesn't

816
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: bother going back for the purse. The only thing is

817
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,800
Speaker 1: the note. The note, well, the note doesn't make any difference.

818
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: This is a random dude. The still hasn't explained. It

819
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be though, I mean, it could just

820
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: be a random something that she was writing to her

821
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: friend that worked at the food cart at the at

822
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: the the place. All. Yeah, well, but you know the

823
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 1: other thing is that I know that this is gonna

824
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: sound like I am just beating up on the Kirk

825
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: Douglas theory again, But I just I really have a

826
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: hard time letting go of that, only because of all

827
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: of the stories of his bad behavior. And we'll leave

828
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: out the whole story about a rape that he supposedly did.

829
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: But he was notorious for being a player and knocking

830
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 1: women around. He was known for for being that guy,

831
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: so you know, and he went to houses of ill

832
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: repute supposedly on a regular basis. I could see him

833
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: being one of those dudes. He's like, Hey, you're a

834
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: cute extra, don't you come to my trailer? And then

835
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,520
Speaker 1: when suddenly there's you know, a product of that union

836
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 1: he's not doing, He's just like, well, well, I guess

837
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 1: I could pay her off. You know what. No, I'm

838
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna pay her. I'm just gonna take care

839
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: of this, or I'm gonna have somebody take care of it,

840
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: which is then would give the guilty conscious why I

841
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: would have Three days later, he called the cops. Know

842
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: it's would have been about five. Yeah, suddenly he's just

843
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, freaking out, like, oh my god, I didn't

844
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: think this would be this, you know, in the news

845
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: so big. I gotta do something about it. I just

846
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: I have a really hard time letting go of what

847
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: I read about him and their connections. Seems very slight,

848
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: I admit, but it's really hard for me to let

849
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: go just from the things that I've read about him. Yeah,

850
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 1: the uh, I mean, definitely, if you wanted to get

851
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: ahead in Hollywood, if you're if you are an aspiring

852
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: actress in those days, the casting couch was pretty much

853
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: a given for almost every actress in those days. And

854
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: so it was and probably it wasn't just a studio

855
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: the studio big wigs that you had sex with. You

856
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: probably in order to get an in have a connection

857
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: and have sex with Kirk Douglas or some famous was

858
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 1: the top dog on the pot. Yeah he was. He

859
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: was the man. Yeah, he was the Chuck Norris of

860
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 1: the day. Oh my gosh, thank you, thank you, Chuck Norris.

861
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: Can we can we move away from that? I'm sorry

862
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: I brought that up. What's wrong with Chuck Norlash? Just

863
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: keep going please? Right now? That we're done. Slandering Kirk Douglas.

864
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:50,439
Speaker 1: I guess I could wrap it up and you guys

865
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: have any more thoughts? No, my slandering Kirk Douglas evidently

866
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: was the only thing I had to say. Yeah, And

867
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 1: I just think it's a huge old mystery. It's a

868
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: big volvable Joe thinks, big old Mr. Two I you know,

869
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: I mean it may well be too that you never

870
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 1: know who. I mean, because she was. She was in

871
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: eight movies, uncredited of course, but I mean within eight

872
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: whole movies. Yeah, had a total of four and a

873
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: half minutes of film, if that much. But the thing

874
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: about it is is in she was, she was attractive,

875
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 1: and she probably attracted the attention of not just Kirk douglast,

876
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: but probably some other movie star types. And uh, you know,

877
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: I mean she may have had some things going on

878
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: with other other Hollywood actors and air duels. I mean,

879
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: so yeah, So maybe it wasn't Kirk douglist. It could

880
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: have been a studio head. I don't know. Alright, Well,

881
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,439
Speaker 1: I think I think that was Well, we haven't quite

882
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: solved this one. Was we'll put this, we'll make this

883
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: almost there, but not quite. I'm going to give this

884
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,919
Speaker 1: three and a half stars Unsolved Radio. I think that's fair.

885
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: Three and a half stars on scale of fifteen us

886
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: about right. Yeah, uh so, folks, that's it for this week.

887
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: Of course, you if you don't know where to find us,

888
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: you can find us on iTunes. Please of course stop

889
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: to give us a rating and maybe leave a little

890
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: review something like that. We really like those. You can

891
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, and of course if you find

892
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: us on Facebook, you have to like us. Yeah, well

893
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: you don't have to be nice. And we have a

894
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: group on Facebook too, don't Yes, you do, so, yeah,

895
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: join the group. You can also find us on Stitcher,

896
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 1: although if you found us on Stitcher you're probably not

897
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: hearing this because Stitcher has developed this tendency to trunk

898
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: aator episodes. That's something we're working on. But yeah, someday

899
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 1: they will figure out what's going on. Yeah, it's a

900
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: little frustrating. I'm sure it's even more frustrating for the

901
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 1: people who are streaming our episodes. You can also send

902
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: us an email. Are email address which is Stinking Sideways

903
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,919
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. You all have been great

904
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,439
Speaker 1: about that. A lot of lots of emails lately, and

905
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: that don't so many suggestions. Yeah, lots of great suggestions.

906
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: We try. We're kind of hitting this point right where

907
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 1: we like try to have a good mix of like

908
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 1: listener suggestions and things you've come up with. But at

909
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: this point, you guys have like either recommended everything that

910
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,439
Speaker 1: I ever knew about, or like, there are so many

911
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,879
Speaker 1: piling up and I feel bad about not doing them.

912
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 1: That just get ready because I think it's possible that,

913
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: like for the next year all of my episodes are

914
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: going to be listeners suggestions. Yeah, so sorry everywhere, you know,

915
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: And I've got a few ideas for how we might

916
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: handle some of that that well, we'll let everybody know

917
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: once we suss it all out. Secrets. I'm always always

918
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: scheming and planning. And I did that actually check the

919
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 1: list of listener suggestions to see if somebody has suggested

920
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: Gene Spangler. I know, I found this one on my own,

921
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 1: so no, but like, you know, just this week, we

922
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: got an email that I happened to be on and

923
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,439
Speaker 1: respond to, and you know, this person said, oh, I'd

924
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 1: love to hear you tackle this mystery, and I was like, wow,

925
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: I was literally just thinking about doing that next week.

926
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: That's why when I was researching Lori Erica, same check

927
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 1: the email and it's like, yeah, can't you do this one?

928
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, I guess. I guess we'll get that,

929
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: right too, I guess yeah, will you ask, we'll be

930
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: And so also, if you want to find this episode

931
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:14,919
Speaker 1: somewhere and you don't want to go to itune just stitch,

932
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: you can find it on our website because you're not

933
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 1: listening to it right now. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, okay,

934
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: so if you want to find future episodes, let me

935
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: put it that way, taking Sideways podcast dot com. There

936
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:30,320
Speaker 1: you'll find links also, and um also there's a survey,

937
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: so if you want to take a moment to fill

938
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: up the survey, that would be really cool. It's not

939
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: one of those long, tedious ones, right No, No, it's

940
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: like it's like, you know, like like would you give

941
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: your mail child Sideways podcast? Yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah, okay,

942
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: I'll take it right now. Yeah, me too. I gotta

943
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: take it like fifty or sixty times. Yeah. Yeah, that's

944
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: why I was doing different every year. Yeah, okay, folks,

945
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: Well that's it until next week for taking Sideways the podcast.

946
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: This is Joe's signing off. I apologize for my co

947
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 1: host Bye