WEBVTT - Reading Between the Lines: The Truth About Gen Z and Literacy - Lab 128 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.320 I just read a headline that said gen Z are 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:07.960 arriving to college unable to even read a sentence, even 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:12.880 read a sentence, Like, that's sensational, my future voice sensational. 0:00:14.880 --> 0:00:15.120 Yeah. 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.200 I was just like, Okay, what's going on here? 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.959 Because I find that very hard to believe that you 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:23.920 can make it all the way to college and not 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:24.840 know how to read. 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:27.120 Yeah, I don't believe it. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.120 Right, I simply don't. I simply don't believe it. 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:38.000 I'm TT and I'm Zukiah and this is Dope Labs. 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.599 Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.960 science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.320 All right, so obviously we're gonna be talking about reading 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:56.319 and literacy and how it's changed over the years, I mean, 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.080 from generation to generation. I also saw a headline that 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:02.920 said that Gen Z is the first generation to cognitively 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:07.160 underperform compared to like previous generations. 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:07.920 I don't know. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.960 I feel like this gets me right into what I know. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:17.320 I feel like every generation from my grandparents down, okay, 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.160 was always saying y'all don't read enough. Y'all don't read enough. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.280 It feels like more to say everybody's just saying you 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.400 don't read enough, you don't read enough. Yeah, we're always 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:26.280 just pointing out the younger ones and saying, y'all got 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:29.080 too much technology, you don't read enough, your attention span 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:30.959 is whatever, whatever, Because I remember when we were kids, 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.800 the big thing was, oh, all y'all kids do was 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.000 watch TV. Y'all need to get outside and play, and 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.399 we were like, okay. The one that I used to 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:41.640 hear was like, do you know your work? Do you 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:47.760 know your school books? The way you know those lyrics? No, okay, 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.040 write those lyrics down on PA committed. 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.560 This song by Bone Thugs. I've committed this this song 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:56.320 by Bone Thugs and Harmony to hers. 0:01:56.880 --> 0:01:59.400 I pledge allegiance to the bone. Okay. 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:03.920 Boom boom boom boom boom boom. Man, they don't know 0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:04.840 what they've on. 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.639 I think I'm also part of the problem, okay, because 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:12.880 the headlines have been blaming everything on reading and reading comprehension. 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:17.959 But I've been spreading some misinformation myself. I saw a 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:21.240 thread and it was like, the men can't flirt because 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.760 they don't read. They don't read enough to be able 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.760 to text you something that's emotionally captivated. I said, repost, 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:33.200 I took it down lest you took it down down 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:34.760 because I said, girl, you don't have no stats to 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.160 back this up. Do you have gender separated statistics about 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:40.160 men reading? 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:40.880 No, you don't. 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.239 Okay, so let's get into what we want to know. 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:51.560 I want to know how much of this is just clickbait, 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:53.760 like just headlines to grab your attention. 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.959 And I think before anybody panics and starts blaming TikTok, 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.160 we need to really slow down and really understand what 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.160 the research says. So I want to know actually factually 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.160 what is going on, Like how are they making these headlines, 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:11.519 what is it based off of and what does it 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:13.520 mean for future generations? 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:18.560 And what does it mean for millennials and Gen xers 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:19.320 and things. 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.560 Like that, Because we're all living in the same society right, 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.440 interacting with one another. 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.440 We're working with each other at our jobs. Okay, so 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:28.440 let's jump into it. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:32.480 I think we're ready. Yeah, So I'll tell you. I 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.200 did some googles I've looked at. 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.640 I did some googles because I said, these headlines are 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:42.040 referencing specific studies, right, and it's time to start picking 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:43.800 some of those apart. I looked at some of the 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.000 studies that they reference, but also global literacy rates. I 0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:51.080 also looked at our reading by state. Also, I started 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.720 looking at our math. We've been It's not looking so 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:57.040 bad for the math. I'm feeling good. Yes, I think 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.760 where we should start is what is little like? How 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:02.160 is literacy defined? 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:03.240 Okay? 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:08.880 Because reading isn't just about knowing words, It's about following arguments, 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:15.960 understanding nuance, detecting false hoods within a sentence, and connecting 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.640 ideas across time. Okay, so let's jump into it then. 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:23.160 So now that we have established what literacy is, right, 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:27.240 let's actually talk about the study. So there are a 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.599 couple of different sources to pool. There are these large 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.240 international assessments that track skills over time. There are these 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:37.760 national assessments that track skills over time, and some of 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:42.760 those skills are reading, comprehension, vocabulary, problem solving. But then 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.919 there are things that are measures of people's time being spent. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.800 So they might ask do a survey and say how 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:51.520 much time do you spend reading per week or how 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.640 much do you spend per day? So we're pulling all 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.480 this information together to understand this trend and What researchers 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.280 notice is that starting around the mid twenty two, scores 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.560 stopped going up. And those scores were like what you said, 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.160 reading comprehension, vocabulary, problem solving and things like that, and 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.560 in some cases they went down. But the decline wasn't 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:19.320 across everything. It was concentrated just on literacy heavy tasks, Okay, 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:21.719 And I think that's important because the headlines that say 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:26.240 they're not as smart is literacy the measure of smartness, right, 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:31.000 So we're talking about understanding long passages, following multi step arguments, 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:35.520 interpreting written information and pulling meaning from context. That's not anything. 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.800 It's not raw intelligence, it's not creativity, is not innovation, 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:41.760 and it's not if you know how to use the 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.520 operating system on your phone or your other technological device. 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:49.880 Because gen Z is kicking everybody's but right, we're looking 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:54.640 at you baby boomers. Okay, I'm tired of being the 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:59.320 geek squad on call. Yeah. I think one important detail 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.240 is that these stud he's compare people at the same age, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.200 just born in different years. So it's not kids today 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:09.880 versus adults. It's eighteen year olds now versus eighteen year 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:14.160 olds twenty or thirty years ago, and when the research 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.520 is dig deeper, they actually find something interesting. They're finding 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:23.200 that gen Z performs just fine on short discrete task okay, okay, 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.360 but the performance drops when they need sustained attention and 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:27.080 deep reading. 0:06:27.400 --> 0:06:27.679 Okay. 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.279 So what that tells us is that this isn't about ability, 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:35.200 It's about exposure and practice. And if your daily life 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:40.400 doesn't require long form reading, your brain gets less training 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:41.440 in that aspect. 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.440 But you might not need that, you know. 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:47.440 I think you're making a very good point. One of 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.279 the things that I've been seeing lately on the internet, 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.839 I saw somewhere where somebody said practice makes permanent. If 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:54.840 I don't have to practice it, it's not part of 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:56.280 my permanent routine. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:57.479 You know exactly. 0:06:57.640 --> 0:06:59.320 I think we talk about this a lot, and the 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:03.240 comparison our always make is that before calculators, everybody was 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.120 doing the math by paper and doing it in their head. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.000 Then calculators came out, and then the mathematicians and scientists 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.800 were saying, if you use a calculator, you're not really 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:15.200 smart because it's something else is doing the work for you. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.960 And I'm like, well, now calculators are ubiquitous. They're on 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.520 our phone, they're on our laptops, they're everywhere helping us 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:24.880 calculate things. You can type in math problems into Google 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.920 and it'll spit out the answer, and it just makes 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.680 you more efficient, Like why take all this time to 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:32.720 try and work this out when you know you can 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.120 get to the answer and move on quickly. I think 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:36.960 the other thing is I've been seeing a lot of 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:41.360 people blaming what we're seeing, and I'm saying what we're seeing. 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.920 I'm putting up the quotation marks because what's being said, 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.240 what we're seeing is not what's being said. But they're 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.400 saying like, oh, these declines in literacy are because of 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.200 the pandemic. But the studies are also pointing out that 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.240 that decline showed up before the pandemic. So it's not 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.280 just I'm tired of people blaming everything on zoom. Zoom 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:06.119 does have some qualities, oh my gosh. And the same 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:10.440 research shows that adults are actually reading less too, and 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.520 that's backed up by other studies, including the American Time 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:14.280 You study. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.280 So this isn't a specific failure quote unquote. 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.080 Of gen z. This is across the board. 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:21.400 We're all reading less. 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.040 Yeah, we can see it in the data. So that 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:25.480 same study, it looked at over two hundred and thirty 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:30.160 thousand Americans over twenty years, and reading for pleasure, not 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.040 reading for your job, reading for whatever you for pleasure 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:34.560 has dropped about forty percent. 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:36.920 Okay. The other thing is. 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.520 Everybody's talking about the kids, but who's reading to the kids? Okay, 0:08:41.000 --> 0:08:44.199 only two percent of adults said that they read with 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:48.120 kids every day. So when we talk about gen Z 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.079 struggling with deep reading, it's not that they're slacking off 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:55.440 while everybody else is like buried in books and bookworms 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.600 and everything like that. This is a cultural shift towards 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:02.800 screens and short form content, and they're just the generation 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.920 that's growing up inside of that shift. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:06.320 Yeah. 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.199 Now, I think it's less about blaming a generation and 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:14.559 more about asking a more context dependent question, like what 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.600 happens now when we have a society where fewer people 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:23.000 can deeply read and analyze and question what they're consuming. 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.080 And I think this is the gotcha, gotcha because we're 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:31.280 having this conversation about fewer people being able to deeply read, 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.880 analyze and question what they're consuming. But this is at 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.280 a time when literacy is actually a huge success story. 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.760 So if you look back two hundred years, only one 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:42.439 in ten people across the world. So now we're talking globally, 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.000 not just in the United States, only one in ten 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:49.959 could read and write. But today that is basically flipped. 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.959 Those other nine those are the people who are literate 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:57.720 across the globe. And so mass literacy is a very 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:03.160 recent phenomenon, okay, and that isn't something that happened by accident. 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:09.199 Countries poured money and policy into basic education and so 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:13.680 the result was that literacy expanded, Gender gaps and race 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.880 gaps started to close. And that's part of what made 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.040 modern life, the life that we're living now so possible, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.120 having democracy, science, the Internet, all of it. So now 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.480 we're asking what does it mean if we have literacy 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.320 on paper but we're not practicing deep reading in real time, 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.800 in real life and talking about policy like bring back 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:42.600 the book program and the pizza Hut coupons. Okay, yes, 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.000 oh my god, remember when you have Yes when and 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:49.400 I remember I was at school. We had like book 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.320 reading competitions and like the class that want would get 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.480 a pizza party. I don't think they're doing that anymore. 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:57.040 So are they doing pizza parties? The kids even still 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.000 eat pizzas, and they would slice those pizzas into the 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:04.839 hunterred slices, A hundred slices right, one slice would be 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:05.680 as thin as a hand. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:08.640 Gg'd lying, y'all, it wasn't. 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.560 It wasn't like this. It wasn't it was it was awful. 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:12.400 It was awful. 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.000 But I think everything you're saying is so so true. 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:17.720 If you can't slow down and deeply read. 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:18.640 You're vulnerable. 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:37.240 A big factor is that how we read has changed. 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.120 We don't read long form text the way that previous 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:46.439 generations did. We skim and scroll and jump from linkedlin. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.480 My friend is jumping from linked very Okay, if you're 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:55.880 not subscribed to her blog, you need to Okay, a 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:56.679 thousand links. 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.079 It's the land of a thousand links and footnotes. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.240 Okay, on that souf. I think you know. 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.719 The interesting thing, though, is we've been talking about the 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:11.319 kids and the younger generations. But let's zoom out again globally. 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.959 If you look like in the Middle East and North Africa, 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.920 the younger generations there are way more literate than the 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:22.560 older generations. So that even that's another interesting caveat too. 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:24.280 Not only do we have more people reading, we have 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:28.720 more younger people reading them before and so I think, 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.719 like you said, we're just adapting to the way we 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:35.800 see information. Yeah, your brain adapts to what you ask 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.560 it to do. And if you're reading happens in captions 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:43.360 and tweets and headlines, you're training your brain for speed 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:46.760 and not depth. And I think the other thing the 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.120 unsaid is like when we look at how we're measuring literacy, 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:55.600 like there are these tests, these checkpoints, like a lot 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.360 of teaching to the test, and you know, I have 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:04.520 a whole thing about that multiple choice Yes, I love 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:08.640 a scantron sometimes ye okay. I think also we start 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.960 to get kids who are just trying to eliminate wrong 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.559 answers instead of thinking about what the right answer actually 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.400 is and thinking and sitting with the information. So I 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:18.360 want to get on my soapbox about that. But I 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:19.880 think if we're going to look at the United States, 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:21.760 we do have to look at the nation's report card, 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.319 and we should be I don't know, I feel like 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.040 we should be a little scared to show it. It's 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.240 been tracking reading and some of the other subjects like 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:33.920 math and writing for many decades, okay, And I think 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.480 some of this also some of the rumblings about literacy 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.720 have come from that particular assessment. It's national, it has 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.839 state level information. You can go all the way down 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.199 the districts. And I think we should focus on the 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.520 last two sets of reading data that we have, and 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.360 that's for grades four and eight and in twenty twenty 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.079 four and twenty twenty two is where we have test 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.120 results for reading. So overall, if you look at the 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.240 average of both the fourth and the eighth grade reading assessments, 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.240 there is a significant decrease in reading in twenty twenty 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.880 four compared to twenty twenty two. A couple of things 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.760 to point out about that, though, is that both fourth 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:12.840 grade and eighth grade are down on average, and that's 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.559 not just a gen Z thing, because fourth grade in 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:19.360 twenty twenty four is technically Generation Alpha. Eighth grade is 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.280 right on the line for gen Z. Also, you can 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:26.040 break this down into percentiles. Percentiles always be messing with with. Okay, 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.240 go slow form, Okay, So I like to start right 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.960 in the middle. I say, if I line everybody up 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.160 from lowest score to highest score, where's the fifty percent mark? Right? 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:39.960 Everybody at the fifty percent mark and below is in 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.840 the fiftieth percentile. So the higher the number, the more 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.360 people that are under you. So you want to be high, 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.640 and if you are an achiever, you want to be high. 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:50.640 So like when people say you're in the ninety fifth percentile, 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:52.680 that means ninety five percent of the people that took 0:14:52.720 --> 0:14:53.320 the test. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.160 Score lower than you. They have a value that falls 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:56.640 below you. 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:01.600 Okay, Okay, So people have been saying, oh, the reading 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.520 is down, reading is down, but for our high performing readers, 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.520 So people that were in the ninetieth percentile twenty twenty 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.880 two to twenty twenty four, no significant change. They didn't 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.560 get any didn't get any better at reading, at literacy, 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.160 didn't get any worse. And that's for both the fourth 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:20.280 grade and the eighth grade. So it's not like, oh, 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:24.880 everybody just dropped. Most of the drops were happening at 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:29.280 the tenth, twenty fifth, and fiftieth percentile range. Okay, And 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.200 so that's something to kind of pay attention to as well. 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.400 So once we start, the more information we have, the 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.040 more we can, you know, start to really get a 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.920 full story. Yeah, because then that makes me feel like 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:42.640 the gap between people is widening, and I want I'm 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:46.480 curious to know is it specific demographics of people or 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.520 kids that are following in the fiftieth percentile or below? 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.600 And I guess we will only know that with more research. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.160 And I think that's the part of the story. I 0:15:57.200 --> 0:16:00.720 think we're not talking about enough. Okay, So we're talking 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:02.640 about a couple things. See, now, you got me all 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:03.600 in my education back. 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:05.680 I call them jales. 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:06.800 She's an educator, y'all. 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:10.760 We're talking about fourth and eighth grade, right. 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:12.680 And we have numbers from twenty twenty two and twenty 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.080 twenty four for them, but we don't have numbers for 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.560 twelfth grade. When people are graduating and going out into 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.760 the world. We don't have a reading assessment for them 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.480 any later than twenty nineteen. So the last reading assessment 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.200 we know about what a twelfth grader is doing was 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:27.120 in twenty nineteen. 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:28.360 Okay wow. 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:33.520 And because there have been recent cuts the National Assessment 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.320 Governing Board that's who sets the policy for the nation's 0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:40.200 report card, they're saying, hey, we're under pressure because there 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.400 have been budget cuts and we're trying to find some 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.800 budget deficiencies. So they are proposing that they won't be 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.960 doing that comprehensive test at the state level for twelfth 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.480 graders to assess their reading. They won't be doing that 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:56.200 until twenty thirty two. Wow, So we're losing a clear 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.640 ability to compare over time what happens. So if you 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:02.920 care about literacy, you don't just care about what's happening 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:04.400 in the fourth grade and eighth grade. You care about 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.280 literacy as a life outcome. And we're losing our ability 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:09.240 to look at that. And that is a direct result 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:10.879 of cuts to the Department of Education. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:12.800 Oh my gosh. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.440 So we're going to be feeling the effects of this 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.720 for a very long time. I mean, if you're not 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.520 making those assessments, like you said, how can you make changes? 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.399 How can you say, Okay, this is we're going to 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.680 start putting more focus on this area or that area. 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.760 If you don't know what the problem is, how do 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:31.680 you fix it? 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.160 I mean, and I think that's part of the thing. 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:35.400 That's something we're seeing complaints about across the board. We're 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.840 making these cuts to these systems that track and that 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.040 become like our early warning signs. You know, this is 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:43.359 not to get us back to the biology, but this 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.440 was the same thing we saw with bird flu. You know, 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.440 when we had the episode people saying we don't have 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.840 the monetoring systems that we had before, and so now 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:52.960 we're going to be in a position where we're not 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:55.560 going to be able to identify where the gaps are closing, 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:59.400 where they're widening, if policies are working in there or not, because. 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:00.520 We're not measuring these things. 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:01.960 Oh my goodness. 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.040 And so the bottom line is that this isn't a 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:10.040 kids these days are lazy situation. This is about systems, 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:14.600 the education system, the text system, and attention economies. Like 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:17.200 because the Department of Education, when you think of public 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.480 schools and how they get their funding and the tests 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.399 that the students have to take, they are like, we 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.439 have to make sure that these kids pass these tests 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.640 and things like that. But if they're not even looking 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.879 at the tests, they're being able to assess the outcomes, 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:32.159 Oh my gosh, we're cooked. 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:33.680 We're cooked cooked. Okay. 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.639 I think the other thing that's really worth saying, and 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.399 we've kind of woven it into the undertones, but I 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.439 want to say it explicitly. Gen Z and Jen Alpha, 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.239 they are incredible at things that the older generation, oh 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:53.520 my gosh, don't stand a chance. Yes, absolutely, visual literacy, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:59.280 digital navigation, pattern recognition across platforms. It's more likely that 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.600 somebody in gen Z is going to recognize AI before 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.280 I do. Listen, Okay, Like there's times where I'm there 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:11.720 was a TikTok of rabbits jumping on a trampoline at night, 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.840 and I was like, yo, this is so cool, and 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:17.680 the gen z is in the comments are like this 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:18.919 is AI clearly, and I. 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:26.200 Was like oops, oopsy oops, yeah, like oh oh yes. 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.240 Yeah, I was talking about a different video with the 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:30.520 bunnies jumping on a trampoline. 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:31.640 Never mind, never mind, never mind. 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:34.439 Yeah, it's just like those skills don't just show up 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:39.440 in traditional intelligence tests, like that's when you're taking a test. 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.640 They're not showing you things like that. And so gen 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.399 Z isn't less smart. They're just a different kind of smart, 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.680 like the type of smart they are values different things. 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.760 Back in the day day, Yeah, you need to read 0:19:54.400 --> 0:19:56.280 you know this war. 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.320 And peace and all these things like that. Now you don't, 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:01.080 for real. 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:03.520 You can read it in your leisure but it's not 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.760 something that you know defines like who is intelligent. 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:08.160 And who isn't. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.760 I think the other thing is that we've come to 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:16.159 a point where we've started to say, well, you know, 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.560 you don't know what this word means or in the 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.280 same way. You know, just like when people are saying 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:23.280 the same way you're talking about calculators, that's the same 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.280 thing people are saying when that little squiggly line used 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:26.719 to come up in word. And I'm like, I can 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:28.760 write click and see what that means. Okay, I can 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:32.440 write exactly what's happening. Yeah, And I'm like, you can. 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.359 Know what every word is in the headline and still 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:37.920 not understand what it means for you. 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:39.960 And you know, when we first started Dope last this 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:43.560 is something we talked about, you know, and such a 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:46.479 good point. We first started with science literacy and then 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:51.360 we talked about financial literacy and civic literacy, media literacy. 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.320 Thinking about science literacy just off the top and thinking 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:56.680 about some of our early episodes, like it's not just like, 0:20:56.760 --> 0:20:59.600 do you know what antibiotics are? That's not what for us, 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:02.000 that's what we're thinking about for science literacy. It's like 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.720 when you see somebody say drug X cures disease, lie, 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.880 you have to stop and ask like was that in mice? 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:10.800 Was it in humans? 0:21:11.040 --> 0:21:14.040 You know? Was it thirty people or three thousand people. 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.440 Was it a randomized trial or was it self reported? 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:18.679