1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks. 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: We continue now with part two of our conversation with 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: James Fox right after these brief messages from our general sponsors. 4 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: Even in a prison population like this, with really bowed up, 5 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: big bad guys behind that shell of toughness, there has 6 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: to be an enormous amount of vulnerability. So the ability 7 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: to feel safe must be an oasis in the middle 8 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: of a miserable metaphorical emotional desert that is prison. 9 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and really, the average the average incarcerated male is not, 10 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: you know, all buffed and everything like that. That there's 11 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: a segment of it, but the average average incarcerated male 12 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: is like the average average person in the United States, Well. 13 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 3: Then they would probably feel very vulnerable. 14 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: And on top of that, though, however, I will say 15 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: that because of their backgrounds, they're very often they're in 16 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 2: poor health, and the mental health issues of incarcerated people 17 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: is severe. There's a study that came out It was 18 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: projected that forty three percent of incarcerated people in state 19 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 2: prisons have been diagnosed with a mental health issue. 20 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: The interesting part to me, I've read that and this 21 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: is a little off, but I think it's important. The 22 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: interesting part to me is I don't think the research 23 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: goes deep enough because I want to know how many 24 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: of those mental health issues developed before going to prison 25 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: or after getting in prison, because I think prison could 26 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: be as stressful and as much trauma as what got 27 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: them into prison in the first place. But the fact 28 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: is those mental problems remain. I am curious as to 29 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: where they started, Yeah, but they do remain well. Yeah. 30 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: And part of the issue is, you know that what 31 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: about the mental health facilities in this country. I was 32 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 2: pretty well known that the three largest mental health facilities 33 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 2: in this country are Riker's Jail, Cook County Jail, in 34 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: La County Jail that came out in sixty minutes a 35 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: few years ago. 36 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 3: And that's yeah, so wrong. 37 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, So you're going down this path, like I said, 38 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: scroll up a tree. So you're going down this path. 39 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,679 Speaker 1: At what point did you say I want to write 40 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: a book. 41 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 2: Well that was kind of early on because I had 42 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 2: guys who were getting parolled and they were saying, how 43 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 2: do I continue my yoga practice once. 44 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 3: Now that makes sense? Uh huh, okay, how do. 45 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: I continue my yoga practice once I get out? Because 46 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:08,679 Speaker 2: very rare. Are they going to show up at a 47 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 2: yoga studio to do yoga? 48 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, especially right out of prison. 49 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: Right. 50 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 2: So I decided, Okay, I started writing like a little 51 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: pamphlet or something like that, and then I realized and 52 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: I should write a book. And then when I started 53 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: writing the book, I then thought, I should make this 54 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 2: book available to any incarcerated person who wants a copy 55 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:32,519 Speaker 2: of it, and I can send it to him free 56 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: of charge. So that was I wrote the book in 57 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, started sending it out in twenty ten. 58 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: Yoga A Path for Healing and Recovery by James Fox, 59 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: the Prison Yoga Project. Interestingly, the book has lots of 60 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: different yoga positions and how to do it because you 61 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: just heard James wanted any prisoner to be able to 62 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: do it, or those who parolled to have a guide 63 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: so they could do it on their own. And I 64 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: believe the artwork was actually done by a prisoner. 65 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: In San Quentin, by several actually seven. 66 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: That's actually really really cool, Yes, that that's it. 67 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: And so the idea was my par old people can 68 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: use this so they can do practice in their homes 69 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: or wherever. And if actual everything in the prison populations 70 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: is distributed by word of mouth. Clearly, word would get 71 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: a mouth would get around into other prison populations. 72 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 3: You want to provide this thing, but you want to 73 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 3: do it free of charge. 74 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: That ain't cheap, right, Yeah, So we've sent up forty 75 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: three thousand copies of that. 76 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: Three thousand copies. Yeah, forty three thousand copies of this 77 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: thing have gone. 78 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 2: To prisons all over the country, all over and lots 79 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: of letters back from somebody who receives it and says, hey, 80 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 2: I'm in solitary. You can't believe what this book is 81 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: meant to me. Or I received your book. We got 82 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,119 Speaker 2: permission from the lieutenant or the captain on our unit 83 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 2: to allow us to start a yoga program, and I'm 84 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 2: leading a yoga class using your book. This is common, now, 85 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 2: this is common. The other thing that this is something 86 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 2: I started doing a few years ago when I was 87 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: in the class, and I would do a particularly impactful 88 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 2: sequence and stop for a moment and ask everybody, so, 89 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: how'd that go for you? How'd you feel? And the 90 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 2: guys would say, oh, that felt really good. Boy, I 91 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 2: haven't felt that good. And I'd say, how many of 92 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: you guys have children? And guys would and most of 93 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 2: them would raise their hand and think, what about when 94 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: you get out of here being able to share this 95 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 2: sort of thing with your children, wouldn't that be amazing? 96 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 2: And you can see the look on their face, but. 97 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: Goes off a little bit, light goes off. I guess 98 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: it just for here. 99 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: This is for when I reintegrate this society. Yeah, which, 100 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: by the way, serves public safety. We're serving public safety 101 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: by providing these practices on the inside. 102 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 3: What is today's socidivism? Right? 103 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: Sixty eight seventy. 104 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: After after five years, Yes, sixty eight percent after five 105 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: years rearrest, seventy rearrest. 106 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 4: And on that point, is it ninety percent of people 107 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 4: will eventually go back home. 108 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 2: To ninety three percent. Six hundred and fifty thousand people 109 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 2: are released from jails and prisons every year. Two thirds 110 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: of them are rearrested within three years. When you when 111 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 2: you expand that out to five years, it goes up 112 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 2: to seventy percent. 113 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 3: That alone tells us what we're doing ain't work. 114 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 2: It's a broken system. And the and the and the 115 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: issue is, let me see if I can grab something 116 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: from I want to show this to you, because this 117 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: has been our. 118 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: What if prison helped people heal? 119 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: What if to help people heal? That's exactly what I 120 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: was getting to is if seven out of ten reoffend 121 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: and end up back in jail, and we're talking about 122 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: seven six hundred and fifty seven hundred thousand people annually, 123 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: what if we actually teach the very folks that are 124 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 1: eighty percent of him And it's not all we don't 125 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: you can't paint with the broad brush, and you have 126 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: to be honest about the numbers. Eighty percent of the 127 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: people that are in prison suffered some type of pretty 128 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: extreme childhood trauma that was layered and or were under 129 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: the influence of alcohol or drugs when they offended. But 130 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: oftentimes the alcohol and drugs come as a result of 131 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: the trauma they suffered as a child. So it all 132 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: goes hand to hand. And that's eighty percent of the population. 133 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: So what if that eighty percent that is let out 134 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: of jail to the tune of six hundred and fifty 135 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,679 Speaker 1: thousand people, seventy percent of which will go back into jail, 136 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: which is about a half million people annually. What if 137 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: they were taught how to breathe, how to be centered, 138 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: how to control their toxic masculinity i e. Their impulse 139 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: control how to instead of learning how to fight when 140 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: they're faced with an issue, to breathe and be able 141 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,679 Speaker 1: to walk away and still retain their ego and their manhood. 142 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,839 Speaker 1: What if they were taught that. The answer is that 143 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: recidivism rate plumbts. 144 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 2: Would plummet, would plummet, and you are addressing the core 145 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 2: issues of rehabilitation, the willpower of our prison system to 146 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: balance punishment with rehabilitation. 147 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 3: Which is ultimately what you're doing now through yoga. 148 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: That's well or you're attempting, yes, And we're doing it 149 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: with other program providers who are addressing origins of violence. 150 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: For instance, you don't start a yoga class and say, well, 151 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 2: let's talk about your origins of violence. 152 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: Now, hey, roll out or Matt and tell me every 153 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: traumatic experience since you're a three year old. It's just 154 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: not going to happen there to look at you like 155 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: you're crazy. 156 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: Now, we're providing the embodiment component that lines up with 157 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 2: that mental, emotional, and physical. The frustrating thing for us 158 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: who are involved in prisoner rehabilitation is that we know 159 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: it works. We know that if you're a violent offender, 160 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: you should be not anger management. You should be doing 161 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:54,080 Speaker 2: a really effective violence intervention violence prevention class that you 162 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 2: invest if you're a violent offender, you're going to be 163 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: in for a while, you invest at least a year, 164 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 2: or you are really diving into understanding how did I 165 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: become a violent person. Part of that also should be 166 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: a component of emotional literacy. Most men aren't very emotionally literate. 167 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: I certainly wasn't, and being able to understand that there 168 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: are lots of emotions. Emotions come, you have no control 169 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 2: over them. But if sadness or fear comes your way, 170 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: do you push it away or do you really explore it? 171 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: Do you even know how to explore exactly? 172 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: Exactly? 173 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: So the program providers. The original nonprofit that I was 174 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 2: involved in was called the Inside Prison Project and it 175 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 2: was based on these four pillars of violence prevention, Victim 176 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: of fender education, which is basically working with offenders on 177 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 2: taking personal responsibility for the harm that they cause. And 178 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 2: it also has to do with addressing the survivors or 179 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: the victims of crimes and the harm that's caused them. 180 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 2: This is restorative justice. The third component is emotional and intelligence, 181 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 2: emotional literacy and the fourth component is the mind body integration. 182 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: So what I'm saying is that will yoga alone do that. 183 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: I don't know if yoga alone will do it. Yoga 184 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: alone will have an impact on lowering recidivism, but when 185 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 2: you combine these other programs, you've got a winning curriculum. 186 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: It is so interesting we're talking about this and at 187 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 1: the top of our conversation we're talking about yoga, But 188 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: the truth is it's so much deeper than stretching on 189 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: a map, absolutely, which is really what I want our 190 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: listeners to fully understand. Prison Yoga Project has developed this 191 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: holistic approach to rehabilitation and transform transformation with the criminal 192 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: justice system. 193 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 3: The four programs. 194 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: I want you to go into a little deeper force 195 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: trauma informed yoga in prisons, Trauma informed training publications and materials, 196 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: and then advocacy and consulting. And that fourth one is 197 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: really interesting to me. Would you care to talk about 198 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:26,119 Speaker 1: those four issues that are specific to Prison Yoga Project itself. 199 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 2: So the first one is direct services, direct services and 200 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 2: direct service direct services of bringing prison Yoga programs into 201 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: correctional facilities and providing. 202 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: To warton say when you show up and say, hey, 203 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: I want to do this. 204 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 3: I mean, I got to think. 205 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to make sure my guards make 206 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: it home every night safely. Keep some pretty at this 207 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: point traumatized, but yes, antisocial people from killing each other 208 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: every day, Feed them, get them bathed, try to get 209 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: them into some classes and get them housed, and do 210 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: this every day without having a riot. And this dude 211 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: wants to come in and do yoga, I just do. 212 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 1: Some of them look at you like you're half out 213 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: of your brain when you ask them about doing yoga 214 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: in the prison. They used to, They used to, They 215 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,480 Speaker 1: had to, Yeah, they were. 216 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 2: It was a harder sell. It was a harder cell 217 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 2: twenty years ago. Eighteen years ago, it was a harder sell. 218 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 2: It's not that hard of a cell anymore. I mean, 219 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: part of it is because we've developed a reputation. You've 220 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 2: got programs in twenty states, over two hundred facilities. Tell 221 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: me some of the facilities. Oh, I know that particular facility, 222 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 2: and maybe I'll reach out to that particular person. Or 223 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: they go and they look at our website and they 224 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: really look. Most wardens today understand trauma and the impact 225 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 2: that traumas had years ago. 226 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: They probably and they didn't know. 227 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 2: It wasn't even a word in the lexicon, right, I mean, 228 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: combat veterans really brought the awareness of trauma to the 229 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: to the culture. I mean that was the original and 230 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 2: particularly post Vietnam. I mean Vanderkok, doctor vander Kok started 231 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: working with Vietnam veterans. 232 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: They were the first ones that it used to be, Oh, 233 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: they're just shell shocked over Yeah, PTS. It was a 234 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: little different than that, right, So trauma informed is that's 235 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: called one. 236 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 2: Direct program direct programming, so direct services, direct program programming, 237 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 2: direct services. The training part of it is training certified 238 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: yoga teachers who are interested in doing this work. 239 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 3: Oh, that's training the teachers. 240 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 2: However, however, more and more we're training people who are 241 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: part of the criminal justice system who are like, what 242 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 2: do you exactly what you just said? 243 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: What do you get? What are you doing? 244 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 2: What is it that you're doing that's having an impact 245 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: on incusert people. I'm interested in that. So some of 246 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: those people, there's staff people, they might be social workers, 247 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: they might be, but some of them could be a 248 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 2: facility captain or something like that in a more progressive 249 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 2: jailer or a prison that's really interested in what it is 250 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: that we're doing defense attorneys. We've worked with a lot 251 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 2: of defense attorneys. They may never teach a yoga class, 252 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: but they. 253 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: Want to know what is it that you're doing? What 254 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: is it? 255 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 2: And so part of that training is about some judges. Actually, 256 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: we have a judge on our board, a former judge 257 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 2: on our board who actually goes into the Max Federal 258 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: facility in Florence, Colorado and teaches that the supermax prison, 259 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:45,239 Speaker 2: you aren't telling. 260 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: Judgment rup So you got to inform training for all 261 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: of these people. 262 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 2: For all those people, yes, yeah, And part of it 263 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: is for the teachers. There's the truma informed part of it. 264 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: And then it's like, how do you deal with this environment. 265 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 2: You've never been in a prison before, how do you 266 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 2: how do you how do you create safe boundaries and 267 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 2: things like that because many of our facilitators are women, 268 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 2: Oh many of our facilitators, and we've never had an issue, 269 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 2: never had an issue with women going into male prisons 270 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: and teaching yoga. Never. 271 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 3: That's interesting. 272 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: And then the books, then the publishing, and we have 273 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: three books. We have my my original book, Yoga Path 274 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: for Healing and Recovery. We have Freedom from the Inside, 275 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 2: which is a book for incarcerated women. We have this 276 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 2: new graphic novel for youth because we're doing more programming 277 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: for youth and detention now. And then advocacy starts. That's 278 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: where it starts. And if we can, like our our facilitator, 279 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: our facilitator here in Tennessee is she's been dedicated to this. 280 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: Chawandra Ford has been dedicated to working with youth. And 281 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 2: she sees the results of being able not only to 282 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: the youth, not only to the young people, but to 283 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: their families so that they understand, oh, there's some value here. 284 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: And then the advocacy part is really advocating for rehabilitation, 285 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: for true rehabilitation. So let me give you an example. 286 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: California is the largest department of correct state prisons in 287 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: the country. There's thirty two state prisons. There's little less 288 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 2: than one hundred thousand incarcerated people in California. The annual 289 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: budget for the prison system in California is about twelve 290 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 2: billion dollars. It's called the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. 291 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 2: That's what they call themselves. Four percent of their budget 292 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 2: is spent on rehabilitation. The rest is spent on corrections. 293 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: Is which is also be called penalty. 294 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 2: We have a retributive justice system, and I mean there's 295 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 2: basically a retributive justice system in most of the world, 296 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 2: which is justice is equated with punishment. The whole purpose 297 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 2: of the criminal justice system is to establish guilt and 298 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 2: then meet out punishment, versus restorative justice, which focuses on 299 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, a harm has been cost here. 300 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: So our first responsibility. 301 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: Is to address the harm that's been cost And our 302 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 2: first responsibility is the harm that's been cost the victim 303 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: and the survivor. And our second responsibility is to work 304 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: with those who cause the harm to not cause harm again. 305 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 3: But we don't do that. We are good at the 306 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 3: first part. 307 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: Well, we're good at let's get justice for the offended, 308 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: the victim or whatever. And honestly, you know, I don't 309 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: want to be a fan of here, but that's what 310 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: it should be. If you, if you, if you offend 311 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 1: or harmed one of my family members of loved ones, 312 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: I want justice for them. 313 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 3: But and there is punishment. 314 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: I think I think I think it was Kennedy who said, 315 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: I can't remember what president was, but it was always 316 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: forgive your enemies, but never forget their names, and he said, 317 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 1: there is a difference in forgiveness and a pardon. I 318 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 1: can forgive you, but you still have to pay for 319 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: what you've done. We'll be right back the first part 320 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: of that whole justice thing. 321 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 3: I love. 322 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: The second part on loath because there's still a human being. 323 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 1: And if you unpack that, eighty percent of the people 324 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: that have done the offense are themselves from childbirth victims. 325 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: Let's punish them. We're not saying they get a pardon 326 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: because we feel bad for them. But if they're going 327 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: to pay their debt to society, and if society is 328 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: going to hold them accountable to their offense, and if 329 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: we have gotten justice for the victims or survivors, then 330 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: what and then what should be Why can't we do 331 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 1: something to try to help force society's sake the recidivism right? 332 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 2: So, why wouldn't every prison in this country that has 333 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 2: a violent offender, Why wouldn't they have a program that 334 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:01,160 Speaker 2: focuses with the violent offender on their taking personal responsibility 335 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 2: for the harm that they caused. 336 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,880 Speaker 1: Why would it first stop before they can do anything. 337 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't we do that? 338 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 2: There was a warden that I worked with at San 339 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 2: Quentin many years ago, who used to say, what exactly 340 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: why a violent offender? The very first thing is it's 341 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: mandatory that while you're doing your time, you have to 342 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: go through these programs. They're not easy, because most defenders are. 343 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 2: The last thing I want to do is go back 344 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 2: into understanding how I became a violent person. I don't 345 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 2: want to go back into my childhood trauma. It's too 346 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 2: painful for me. 347 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: And I sure as hell don't want to discuss it 348 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: from everybody ELSEO. I'll show my weakness. 349 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 2: But that is so beautiful when you do groups, because 350 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 2: it starts out that way. These are voluntary programs, by 351 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,119 Speaker 2: the way, all these programs that I'm talking about, and 352 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: maybe for the first few weeks when you introduce topics 353 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: like the father wound or the mother wound or things 354 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: like that, or people are really quiet and you're the 355 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 2: facilitator and you're the only one talking, and you're hoping, okay, well, 356 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: I hope this breaks open at some point in time, 357 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 2: and finally one person in the group goes, you know 358 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 2: what we talked about last week. I gotta tell you 359 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 2: that's my life story, and that person starts to talk 360 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: about their story and what they went through, and then 361 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, another guy goes, you're talking about me, 362 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 2: And there's a relational aspect to healing also, when you know, 363 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: because oftentimes people who've been harmed like that and people 364 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,959 Speaker 2: who've gone through that, they feel completely like I'm the 365 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: only one who ever went through this. I feel isolated 366 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,680 Speaker 2: and they find out no, it's not just. 367 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: Me, people in this damn jail. 368 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 2: But again, why wouldn't we insist if you're a violent 369 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 2: offender and you're going to be doing time for a 370 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 2: violent offense, that you go through a program for taking 371 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 2: personal responsibility for the harm that you cost. And no, 372 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 2: it's it's not you want to talk about punishment. It's 373 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 2: not intended to be easy, but it's constructive punishment. It's 374 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: constructive punishment. 375 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 1: So I get that. 376 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 2: I'm just saying that if the correction part of the 377 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 2: equation is ninety percent and the rehabilitative part is ten 378 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 2: percent or less, which is the fact, because why would 379 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 2: the recidivism rate be that high. Let's bring it up 380 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 2: to fifty to fifty. Yeah, you have to pay for 381 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 2: the harm that you cost, you know, in terms of punishment. Well, 382 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 2: while you're. 383 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: Here, it's incumbent upon. 384 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: Us to provide you with programs so that when you're 385 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: released you're not going to reoffend, that you're not going 386 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: to be violent again. 387 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: And that way society gets better public safety. 388 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,360 Speaker 2: It's a no brainer. It's to me, it's an absolute 389 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 2: no brainer. 390 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 3: So where does yoga fit? 391 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: Yoga provides the embodiment component that the trauma therapists, and 392 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 2: the research is indicated that one of the things that 393 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 2: Vanderkoke has talked about in is research doctor Bessel vander 394 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 2: Koch is you can do all the cognitive behavioral therapy, 395 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 2: you can talk about the trauma that you experienced, but 396 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 2: if you don't involve the body, it's an incomplete job. 397 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 2: And you've got that's interesting to me. 398 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, when I read that, and your you've said that before, 399 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,159 Speaker 1: and when I read that, I read that two or 400 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: three times and really thought about what that meant. I mean, 401 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting, and I don't think many 402 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: people think very deeply about that. 403 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,199 Speaker 4: A lot of people just do cognitive behavioral therapy and 404 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 4: stop there. 405 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's that's yeah. 406 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 2: And vanderkok has done lots of research on this, and 407 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 2: as have other trauma therapist Peter Levine, Stephen Porges gobblor Mate, 408 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 2: this has now really risen to the four of the 409 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 2: approaches to healing trauma. 410 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: So a t a YTT participant, he said this, if 411 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: you want to truly learn and know yourself while healing 412 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: from trauma, as well as help others find their way 413 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: to self knowledge while redefining what a typical yoga practice 414 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: looks like, this is the way to go. Don't tell 415 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: me his name, but tell me about who at is. 416 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 2: Well, that was a yoga teacher training that he did, 417 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 2: so and and we so we have a to become 418 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 2: a certified yoga teacher, you have to do two hundred 419 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 2: hours of a of a certified a certified certified program. 420 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 2: That organization called Yoga Alliance is the one that controls 421 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 2: that and says, you know, you have to do two 422 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 2: hundred hours and it has to in these components in 423 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 2: order to get your certification. We started a Yoga teacher 424 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 2: certification training. We actually have trained people while they're incarcerated 425 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 2: to become certified yoga teachers. But our yoga teacher certification 426 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 2: on the outside is a virtual training that involves meetups 427 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 2: in person meetups and it's focused on changing the face 428 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 2: of yoga. Not the pretty white woman in the yoga 429 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 2: outfit and everything like that, not the aerobics as teacher, 430 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:45,400 Speaker 2: but somebody who looks like the person that somebody who's incarcerated, 431 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 2: the community that somebody incarcerated comes from. So and we 432 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 2: focused heavily on people who've been system impacted. So they've 433 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,479 Speaker 2: had somebody in their life who's been incarcerated, they've had 434 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 2: a family member, which is huge. It's very high percentage. 435 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: I can't tell you the exact percentage, but very high 436 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: percentage of people in this country. I've had a family 437 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 2: member or they know somebody who's incarcerated. And then the 438 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 2: real bullseye is training people who were incarcerated who come 439 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 2: out and they want to teach yoga. They become certified 440 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,919 Speaker 2: as a teacher, and then they bring yoga to their community, 441 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 2: not to a yoga studio, but they start a community program. 442 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 2: And this is a lot of the kind of work 443 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 2: that Chawandra is doing here in Memphis that I talk 444 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,640 Speaker 2: about community yoga. It's spreading out, which is what got 445 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 2: me started. I don't want to teach yoga in a 446 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,960 Speaker 2: yoga studio. I want to bring yoga to people aren't 447 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: being exposed to yoga, why shouldn't they get the benefits 448 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,120 Speaker 2: of yoga. So I don't know who that person is, 449 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 2: but that's the training that they took. 450 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: Bureau a Justice Statistics twenty twenty two data. At the 451 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: end of twenty twenty two, there were one million, eight 452 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: hundred twenty seven thousand, six hundred people incarcerated in state 453 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: or federal prisons or in custody of local jails. 454 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're closer to two million again, now, is that 455 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: what it is? Yeah, so it's going up. It's gone 456 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 2: up after COVID. COVID went down for a while and 457 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,159 Speaker 2: it's gone back up again. 458 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: But the thing is, if six hundred thousand, I mean, 459 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: it's the cycle, right, it's it's six hundred thousand coming out, 460 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: eighty percent are reoffended. It dawns on me that there's 461 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: two million people in jail. Aren't two million new people 462 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,719 Speaker 1: every year? It's the same people just rolling in and 463 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: out over and over and over again. 464 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 2: Well, certainly in county jails, you know, and there's about 465 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 2: a half a million people in county jails who are incarcerated. 466 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,800 Speaker 2: Of the half a million, about four hundred thousand have 467 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 2: not been convicted. You're kidding, They're wait, kidding, they're waiting. 468 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 2: State prisons have the majority, over a million, over a 469 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 2: million people incarcerated, and then federal prisons have about a 470 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: half million. So that's that's how you divide up the 471 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: and then when you get into the racial inequities of 472 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:20,239 Speaker 2: those who are incarcerated. For instance, African Americans comprise the 473 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 2: thirteen percent of. 474 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: The US population's fourteen now. 475 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 2: Thirty eight percent of the prison population. 476 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's other data that goes along with that. 477 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: That's said. I want to be careful with this, but 478 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: because there's also a much and I'm not saying this 479 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: is right. I'm saying it's just the facts that I've read. 480 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: Because there's also a greater higher percentage of African Americans 481 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: who grow up at a low income or poverty level, 482 00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: they are more susceptible to dramatic and things in their childhood, 483 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: which leads them to a higher percentage of criminal activity 484 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: and thus incarceration. So while there is a disproportionate amount 485 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: of African Americans in prison according to their population of 486 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: the country, the real scourge to me is that there's 487 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: a just appropriate percentage of African American people in poverty. 488 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 2: In the first chase, it's an economic thing, and it 489 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 2: is and it's directly related to also legal representation. Yes, 490 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 2: they of the quality of legal representation, right access and representation. Correct. 491 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: Given all of that, when we talk about needing to 492 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: fix the proverbial it as it pertains to our prisoness 493 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: systems are over populations in jails, the enormous costs to 494 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: our society of incarcerating people and crime in certain areas 495 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: of our world that is absolutely out of control. But 496 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: we also should understand the data that there's two men 497 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: and people in jail as there's seventy percent recidivism rate, 498 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: meaning those two me and people, large percent of them 499 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: are just rotating in and out and in and out. 500 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: If we could break the cycle of that rotation, we 501 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: could bring this prison population down by probably half. 502 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, would I would think. So there's a fairly large 503 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 2: population of people who are life sentence with the possibility 504 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 2: of parole or life sentence without so they're doing longer 505 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 2: periods of incarceration. But that recidivism rate has to do 506 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 2: with those who are actually getting out. 507 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, So if we could teach them while in prison, absolutely, 508 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: how to control impulses, how to deal with the trauma 509 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: that got them there in the first place, how to breathe, 510 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: how to be centered, how to take care of oneself. 511 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 3: Doesn't the recidivis in them draw? 512 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not that everybody's going to embrace that too. 513 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 2: I mean they could go through a program and go 514 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I mean, I mean, 515 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 2: if you do involve the other things that I talked about, 516 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: which is, you know, really really diving into issues of 517 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: violence and things like that, it's pretty hard to avoid, 518 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 2: you know, really feeling those issues. 519 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,160 Speaker 1: Did you ever think when you started yoga to fix 520 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: your aching back and then thought, you know, these kids 521 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: they could benefit from this because I remember them from 522 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: my days in Chicago, And then no, I want to 523 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: give some time to the prison population see if this 524 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: can Did you ever think that you would be putting 525 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: out cards to say the Prison Yoga Project and diving 526 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: into what if prison actually helped people heal? Could you 527 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: imagine the evolution of this very simple fault you had 528 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: that is now what it is global? 529 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I didn't. From the time I walked into 530 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 2: San quentin as yoga man with a yoga man, yoga 531 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 2: man under my arm. I had no idea. I had 532 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 2: no idea. Even when I wrote the book, I had 533 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 2: no idea. 534 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 3: So you're in how many prisons? 535 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 2: We're in twenty states and we don't break out you know, 536 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 2: the number of facilities that were in in the United 537 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 2: States and the ones that were in in the country. 538 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 2: But we're in over two hundred and twenty correctional facilities, 539 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 2: and probably at least eighty percent of those are in 540 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:52,920 Speaker 2: the United States. 541 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 3: So what other countries? 542 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 2: We're in? The UK? We actually trained staff in the 543 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 2: UK Okay Physical Education Department, staff that runs their PE programs, 544 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 2: but they are they're full on correctional officers. We're in France, 545 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 2: We're in Portugal. We're in Sweden, and people go, oh, Sweden. 546 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 2: Sweden is very gnarly these days. Oh, Sweden has got major, 547 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 2: major problems, and a lot of it has to do 548 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 2: with problems that they've had with immigrants who they allowed 549 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 2: into the country and they weren't able to assimilate. 550 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: And turn they allowed too many too quickly and at. 551 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 2: Exactly and then we have. 552 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 1: We do business in Sweden, and there are towns in 553 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: Sweden the Swedish police will not go into exactly. 554 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, the gang violence in Sweden is off the charts. 555 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: Mexico, we have. 556 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 2: A big program in Mexico and we're in the federal prisons. 557 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 2: We are in some of the state prisons in Mexico, 558 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 2: but mostly mostly the federal prisons. 559 00:34:53,120 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 3: We'll be right back. Tell us about how this white. 560 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 1: Dude from Chicago living in San Francisco gets invited. 561 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 3: To the genesis of yoga. 562 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: And how that even happened and what that ended up 563 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: being to you. 564 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 2: You know, in reality, I have a very very strong 565 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 2: feeling of giving back. I take literally, treat your neighbor 566 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 2: as yourself as you treat yourself, treat your brother and 567 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 2: sister as you treat yourself. And I had a driving 568 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,360 Speaker 2: voice inside of me that was saying, when are you 569 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 2: going to align your work with that? And I had 570 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 2: no idea how it was going to turn out, But 571 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 2: to be really honest with you, very honest answer to that, 572 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 2: it was prayer. It was prayer, and my prayer was 573 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,240 Speaker 2: how can I be of service? How can I take 574 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,919 Speaker 2: the benefits that I've had in my life? How could 575 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 2: I take the benefits of yoga and bring benefits to 576 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 2: other people and get out of the way. It wasn't like, oh, 577 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 2: I'm going to make a lot of money doing this. 578 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,640 Speaker 2: It really changed my life when I really focused on it, 579 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 2: and it really became And I don't talk about this 580 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 2: very much. I don't because it's sort of a personal thing, 581 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 2: but it has been my driving force and it's one 582 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,760 Speaker 2: of the things that really appealed to me about coming 583 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 2: on this podcast. An army of normal folks. What is 584 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,560 Speaker 2: an army of normal folks doing to better society? What 585 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 2: are they doing to take things into their own hands, 586 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,880 Speaker 2: to improve things in their community, to improve things with 587 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,759 Speaker 2: their neighbors. That's what it means to me, an army 588 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 2: of normal folks. And it's not waiting for the government 589 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 2: to do it for me. It's not it's like I 590 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 2: don't want to sit around and talk about all the 591 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 2: problems in this country. 592 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: It's like, get off your do something. 593 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,239 Speaker 2: That's how I felt about it, and I thought I've 594 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 2: received all these benefits in my life. There's a practice 595 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 2: of yoga called karma yoga, which is being of service. 596 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 2: And you know, you could say Mahama Gandhi was a 597 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 2: karma yogi. Mother Theresa was a karma yogi. A lot 598 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,439 Speaker 2: of Americans have been karma yogi's. You know, you don't 599 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 2: have to call yourself a karma yogi, but you basically 600 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 2: your life was about serving other people. Does that make 601 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 2: me a special person? 602 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: No? 603 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 2: No, makes me somebody who's doing what I'm supposed to 604 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 2: be doing. 605 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 1: We often talk about that the magic happens when somebody's 606 00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,320 Speaker 1: passion and abilities intersected opportunity. 607 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 3: That's this. 608 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: You became passionate about yoga because of what did for you. 609 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: You became trained in it, and you started to become 610 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: interested and passionate and able in what rehabilitation meant, and 611 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: it intersected it opportunity that you created by trying to 612 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: put it into where you thought the most need you were. 613 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: And now look how many do you have any sense 614 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 1: of how many prisoners have taken yoga classes through Prison 615 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: Yoga Project thousands? Do you have any sense of how 616 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: many have been released and are continuing to use yoga 617 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: to keep themselves free. 618 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 2: You know what's interesting about that and I was talking 619 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 2: to Alex about that too, and that is you get 620 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 2: out of jail or prison and your main focus is 621 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 2: how am I going to make a living that's number one. 622 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,360 Speaker 2: Number two is where am I going to live? Number 623 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 2: three is am I going to reunite with my family? 624 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 2: What's that going to look like? 625 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: That makes so much sense. I need a job, I 626 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: need someone to live, and I need people who love me. 627 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly, And so are you gonna Are you gonna 628 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 2: roll out a yoga mat? But if you get a 629 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 2: job and you get into a beef with your boss, 630 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 2: what are you gonna do? Break out into a yoga post? No? 631 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 2: And I gotta break out into a. 632 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,240 Speaker 1: Yoga post that's a layer. 633 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 3: Yes, No, you're not going to break out do a 634 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:33,399 Speaker 3: yoga post. 635 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 2: You're going to remember that breathing practice to calm your 636 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 2: nervous system. You're gonna remember James always saying your ex 637 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 2: sale is your body's built in release fialve. Don't forget that. 638 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 2: Or another one of ours is take five mindful breaths. 639 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,400 Speaker 2: It can make a difference between a blind reaction and 640 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,759 Speaker 2: a cultivated response. And that's the reports that I get 641 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 2: back over and over and over again. 642 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: Hey, James, ten years ago, I would have beat this 643 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: guy's ass. This time I took five deep breasts and 644 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: I'm still out of jail. 645 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 2: Even somebody who was in class last week will come 646 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 2: to class early and go, James, I got to talk 647 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,839 Speaker 2: to you, gotta talk to you. The other day, I 648 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,320 Speaker 2: got into it with this guy and in the past 649 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 2: we would have gone for it. And I took a 650 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,759 Speaker 2: couple of breaths and I remembered hearing you say, just 651 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,760 Speaker 2: see if you can back off for a few seconds. 652 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 2: And I didn't do it. I didn't do it. And 653 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 2: they're all excited about the fact that they found impulse control. 654 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 3: What a payoff. 655 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a beautiful I love that when I hear that. 656 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 1: I mean, that's got to be like worth it to you. 657 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: But I'm sure all of these trained yoga facilitators you 658 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: have all over these prisons, all over the place, they 659 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: all have to have those same stories. 660 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, they have their own stories for sure. 661 00:40:58,960 --> 00:40:59,760 Speaker 3: So what's next. 662 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 4: You told me about a cool program in the car 663 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:02,839 Speaker 4: that you're working on. 664 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 1: Oh yeah. 665 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,759 Speaker 2: So one of the programs that we developed last year 666 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 2: that we're going to roll or this year, that we're 667 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,280 Speaker 2: going to roll out in January is a wellness program 668 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 2: for correctional staff. Prorectional staff staff recognizing that you know, 669 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 2: the average life expectancy of a correctional officer in this 670 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,760 Speaker 2: country is sixty one years, is that right? Versus seventy 671 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 2: three from the rest of. 672 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 3: That's ten twelve years less than normal. That's right. And 673 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 3: they were not not because they're getting killed at work, 674 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 3: just stress. 675 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 2: Probably vicarious trauma, the trauma that they experience basically working 676 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 2: with a traumatized population, and the uncertainty where there's a 677 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 2: lack of safety, predictability and control. They're in the same boat, 678 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 2: there's no safety predictability. Well, they supposed to have control, 679 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 2: but do they really have control? 680 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: And then the issues of you know, how many people 681 00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: did you say, we're at San Quentin. 682 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 2: Right now, there's about thirty about thirty five hundred? 683 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 3: How many guards on shift? 684 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,480 Speaker 2: I wish I knew that. I wish I knew that. 685 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 2: I'd say a thousand, you know, and that's three different 686 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 2: that's three different probably, Yeah, about three hundred a shift you. 687 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: Have out numbered eleven twelve to one. 688 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, about that, I would say, that's about right. 689 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 3: That's stressful. Yeah, it has to be. 690 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. And then you know they work and it's like this, Okay, 691 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,120 Speaker 2: we're done with work. We've experienced, you know, the stress 692 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 2: of work. Let's go have a few, you know, then 693 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,919 Speaker 2: they have a few and all of these issues. There's 694 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 2: a there's a professor at the University of South Carolina 695 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,919 Speaker 2: named Hayden Smith who's done all this research on officer wellness. 696 00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 2: The substance abuse issues are off the charts. 697 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,960 Speaker 3: Among the prisons. 698 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 2: Around, among guards, Suicide off the charts, off the charts, 699 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 2: all of this because of the issues that they're dealing with. 700 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 2: It's vicarious trauma, chronic stress, they call it. Toxic stress 701 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 2: is what it's called. 702 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: So project, the Prison Yoga Project, not only for the prisoners, 703 00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:14,200 Speaker 1: but for those who keep a person that's right, that's right? 704 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,719 Speaker 1: Not that makes so much sense? Your roll that out 705 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:17,200 Speaker 1: next year. 706 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 2: We're rolling that out in January. Yeah, and it'll be 707 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 2: a virtual so they can have their you know, they 708 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 2: don't have to get into a group with each other 709 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,160 Speaker 2: and have to talk about it. They can they can 710 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 2: have tools to deal with these things. We have developed 711 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,799 Speaker 2: what we call micropractices that are practices that you can 712 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 2: do within one or three minutes to interrupt some kind 713 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 2: of emotional response that you're having. And then a lot 714 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,239 Speaker 2: of other things, you know, they have to do with 715 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,959 Speaker 2: simple kind of things for self care. 716 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: Are you still doing it everything? 717 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 2: I'm still doing it well, I actually i'm I'm I 718 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 2: gave up the class that I taught every single week 719 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 2: and now I'm the substitute, and I launched another program 720 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,759 Speaker 2: I'm working with. San Quentin has what they call pure 721 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 2: support Specialists, and these are mostly lifers, incarcerated lifers with 722 00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 2: the possibility of prob most of them who have life 723 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 2: experience that they can share with their brothers in terms 724 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 2: of being there for their brothers in different ways. And 725 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 2: so they're under the medical staff. The chief medical Officer 726 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 2: of San Quentin, a physician, is basically training them and 727 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 2: all these things. And she asked me, would you do 728 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 2: a training with these guys on trauma and introduce some 729 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,360 Speaker 2: tools for them? Said absolutely, so I'm doing that. Last 730 00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 2: year I provided a twelve week training for the mental 731 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:45,720 Speaker 2: health staff at San Quentin. The clinicians. Oh, oh my gosh. 732 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 2: It's like and there may be a book, another book 733 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,000 Speaker 2: in the offing, but this book is going to be different. 734 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,880 Speaker 2: It's going to be told through me, but it's going 735 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 2: to involve the voices of a lot of people that 736 00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 2: I've met along the way, incarcerated people, chaplains. I mean, 737 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,440 Speaker 2: San Quentin's got a Muslim chaplain, a Jewish chaplain, a 738 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 2: Protestant chaplain, a Native American chaplain, and a Catholic chaplain. 739 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,080 Speaker 2: I've known them all over the years. And then a 740 00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 2: lot of the other characters. 741 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: They're probably stressed. You need to have a chaplain yoga class. 742 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: Probably they probably need it too. 743 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're they're in better shape. They're they're in 744 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 2: better shape. 745 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: So it's started, all of us started in two thousand, 746 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: two thousand and two, two two, twenty three, twenty years ago. Yeah, 747 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:35,040 Speaker 1: twenty states later. Yeah, thousands and tens of thousands, and 748 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:36,320 Speaker 1: it's still growing. 749 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:37,200 Speaker 2: It's still growing. 750 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,720 Speaker 4: I think you're on your website it says that fifty 751 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,399 Speaker 4: four thousand participated in your program last year. 752 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:48,080 Speaker 1: That's right, Yeah, fifty four thousand, Yeah, in our prom 753 00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: and you imagine. 754 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 2: And that's the data that we're getting from attendance. Yeah, 755 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,319 Speaker 2: so that's not an estimate. That's from attendance. 756 00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: But that's because you had a sore back after you 757 00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 1: ran eight miles one day. It's just phenomenal that it 758 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,800 Speaker 1: is so true and a passionate ability intersected opportunity. Amazing 759 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,680 Speaker 1: things can happen, and this is morphed into an entire 760 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:20,240 Speaker 1: focus on rehabilitation for those who need it the most. 761 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:26,080 Speaker 1: What an amazing story, dude. Thanks mean it's awesome. It 762 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,520 Speaker 1: really is awesome. So when you hear Prison Yoga Project, 763 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,759 Speaker 1: don't think we're giving match to a bunch of prisoners 764 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,799 Speaker 1: and letting them stretch out on the ground. It's so 765 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,440 Speaker 1: far deeper than all. Yeah, it's a deep dive anything else, Alex. 766 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 4: I just think for people listening, if you know people 767 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 4: who are in yoga or yoga instructors and might be 768 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 4: interested in receiving this training, make sure to share the episode. 769 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,320 Speaker 1: Of helping their own. Yeah. 770 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, if you know people who work at the prisons, 771 00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,960 Speaker 4: you could share this with them to consider the program. 772 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 2: How do they get into so they can get in 773 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,399 Speaker 2: touch they get If they want to email, they can 774 00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 2: email info at prison yoga dot org. Our website is 775 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 2: prison yoga dot org. 776 00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: Got it. So, if any of you are listening, and 777 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: you yoga instructors out there, if you want to serve, 778 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,399 Speaker 1: here is a really cool opportunity. And I bet if 779 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,319 Speaker 1: there's a prison you're not in and it's close to 780 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,680 Speaker 1: someone who thinks I would like to do something there, 781 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 1: especially maybe even a women's facility. All they got to 782 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: do is email you and you'll tell them to how 783 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:32,359 Speaker 1: to get it done right. 784 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,960 Speaker 2: We'll help them. We'll definitely help them. 785 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 1: I can't wait to get your next book. I'm not 786 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,719 Speaker 1: in prison, but will you send me one? 787 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:39,760 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure? 788 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,800 Speaker 1: All right. James Fox, everybody, founder of the Prison Yoga 789 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:49,359 Speaker 1: Project based in Bolinas, California, San Francisco BA area, who 790 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: is making a difference for our society and those in 791 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:59,440 Speaker 1: it who need rehabilitation the most through yearning, using the 792 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:04,520 Speaker 1: basics of what yoga teaches or rehabilitation and trying to 793 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,759 Speaker 1: better our saidy and James. The twenty three years of 794 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 1: this this trip is I mean, what a gas. But 795 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,320 Speaker 1: I wish you the best and I just got to 796 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:16,880 Speaker 1: believe it's just going to keep on, to keep it 797 00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 1: on making a difference in our community. 798 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 3: And I thank you for all your hard work. 799 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,080 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for this opportunity to have the conversation 800 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 2: with you. Bill really appreciate it. 801 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 3: That's awesome. 802 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:33,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for bending, and thank you for joining us this week. 803 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,319 Speaker 1: If James Fox has inspired you in general, or better yet, 804 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 1: to take action by exploring becoming a facilitator with them, 805 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: sharing this episode with someone who might love that opportunity, 806 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: trying yoga yourself, donating to a prison yoga project, or 807 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,160 Speaker 1: something else entirely. Please let me know I want to 808 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,320 Speaker 1: hear about it. You can write me anytime at Bill 809 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: at normal folks dot us. If you enjoyed this episode, 810 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 1: please share it with friends and on social subscribe to 811 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: the podcast, rate it, review it, Join the army at 812 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,880 Speaker 1: normal folks dot us, any and all of these things 813 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,320 Speaker 1: that will help us grow an army of normal folks. 814 00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,239 Speaker 1: I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what you can