1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, fourteen 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams. Welcome 4 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: to the NFL Legends Podcast. I am a Nius Williams. 5 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: Part of our podcast series is something we call Storytellers, 6 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: a chance for NFL players and legends to tell their 7 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: own story. Today's storytellers a real treat form. A long snapper, 8 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: Army Special Forces veteran and citizen of the world Nate Bowyer, 9 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,880 Speaker 1: and he brings a story of strength, perseverance, and most importantly, 10 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: the love for his fellow man and the desire to 11 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: make people's lives better. My name is Nate Boyer and 12 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: very honored to be able to share some of my 13 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: story with you guys today. In two thousand and four, 14 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: I sort of without a crossroads in my life. I 15 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: was I was twenty three. I didn't really feel like 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: I was going anywhere purposeful in the future. I didn't 17 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: I had I still didn't know what was missing in 18 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:21,839 Speaker 1: my life, but I just had this kind of empty feeling. 19 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: And I came across this Time magazine article about the 20 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: tragedy in Sudan, and it was, you know, it was 21 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: this photojournalism article about the genocide going on in the 22 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: Darfur region, and just going through that magazine and seeing 23 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: those images and reading about, you know, these villages that 24 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: are you know, burned to the ground and the women 25 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: all raped, and the men are off fighting or have 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: already been killed, and these children are left abandoned, and 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: it's just by the hundreds of thousands, you know, I 28 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: think three hundred thousand had been killed. And I was 29 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: just like, what, how, how is that happening today? How 30 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: is that still existing? It's thousand and it was two 31 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: thousand four at the time, you know. So I just 32 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: made a decision that day I was going to go 33 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: over there and volunteer. I was going to help somehow. 34 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: And I've never been that the developing world urban Africa, 35 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: UM certainly never been to a war zone and a 36 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: place where the refugee camps everywhere. So I called every 37 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: NGO that was out there, and all of them told 38 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: me that I would not be able to volunteer with 39 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: them because I didn't have a college degree and it's 40 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: just long process and there's a bunch of red tape. 41 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: But then I'm also reading about how they're grossly understaffed 42 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: at the camps out there and they need people. So 43 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: I was like, how is this if you need people? 44 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: Like I'm willing to go off fly myself, and they 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: just all, you know, they told me it wasn't possible. 46 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: So I made the decision I was just gonna go anyway. 47 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: And I went to travel agency Triple A travel agency 48 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: in Burbank, and I bought a ticket to to the 49 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: neighboring country of Chad thanks to the Sudan And I 50 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: figured out. I just figured out when I got there, 51 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: and I find a way to get out there. And 52 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: so a week later, I fly out land in the 53 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: capitol Chad's town called Jamaana kinda b asked my way 54 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: onto a UN flight that was going out to the camps. 55 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: You know, talked my way into that position, I guess, 56 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: because you know, I convinced them that, look, I'm an American, 57 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: I don't have anything, Like, what else would I be 58 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: doing here. I'm supposed to be out there, even though 59 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: I didn't have the proper documentation, I slipped through the 60 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: cracks and got out there and and just spent you know, 61 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: I don't know six weeks maybe at the camp, and 62 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: it completely changed my life just how grateful the people 63 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,119 Speaker 1: were that an American would leave what we have here 64 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: to go over there and help. I was overwhelmed by that. 65 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: It wasn't this place where I felt people were just 66 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: you know, needy or or begging or any of that. 67 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: It was just like gratitude, and they were so happy 68 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: with with moments of peace they had every day and 69 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: like one you know, a little mill and maybe some 70 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: clean water, that's it, you know. And they had like 71 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: one soccer ball at this camp where all these kids are, 72 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: they're playing soccer every day with this one ball and 73 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: that's all they have, and they're just you know, over 74 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: the moon, like happy. And it just made me appreciate 75 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: not only how simple things can be, but also made 76 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: me appreciate the opportunities that we have here in America. 77 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: And I sort of gained my patriotism over there um 78 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: and became, you know, really proud of what we have here. 79 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: And it's not that I was anti American or anything 80 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: like that. Before I just didn't understand. I didn't end 81 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: that hadn't had that perspective of a place like that, 82 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: you know, And every night I was sleeping on the 83 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: ground just like them, under the stars, and I felt 84 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: the most happy had I ever felt, maybe because I 85 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: felt that element of purpose and just that that that 86 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: piece and the simple things. My last week during country, 87 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: I got malaria and I went down for about three 88 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: days where I mean I just couldn't eat anything. I was, 89 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: you know, just coming out of both ends. I was 90 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: sweating like crazy and freezing cold, and you know, it 91 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 1: didn't make any sense, but it was just I was 92 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: extremely sick, and so I'm just like laying They put 93 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: me up in this little room that had a cot 94 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: So I'm laying on this cot um trying to get 95 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: some some sleep and just trying to feel better and 96 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: listening to this little radio. And it was the first 97 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: Battle of Felujah. I was going on, you know, the 98 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: Marines were over there, and it was like this play 99 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: by play of what was happening. And I don't know 100 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: if I was just you know, lucid from all the 101 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, from the drugs I was taken, or I 102 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: just that I haven't slept, hadn't slept or eight in 103 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: a few days. But I just had this vision of 104 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: myself in the military, you know, and like, maybe that's 105 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: what I would do next. And I came back to 106 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: the States and I didn't know what I was gonna 107 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: do in the military. I just kneed that was something 108 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: I was interested in. I started doing research and I 109 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: learned about the Green Berets, the Army Special Forces, and 110 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: their motto was dappressed alibert, which means to free the oppressed. 111 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: All of their missions were done alongside host nationals, so 112 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: indigenous forces. You know, you go to Iraqi, go to Afghanistan, 113 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: you go to Sudan, and you work alongside those people, 114 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: You live with them, you know, you train them, and 115 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: then you fight with them, alongside them against the common enemy. 116 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: And that's sounded the most appealing to me because I 117 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: wanted to continue to work with those people, you know, 118 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: fight for those who can't fight for themselves, and really 119 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: feel that connection. So that's what I decided I was 120 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: gonna do. I set out to be a Green Brat 121 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: and that was my next mission. You know, really my 122 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: first Special Forces mission was probably going to the Darfur 123 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: behind myself, and like I said that, that moment changed 124 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 1: me more than anything. But you know, so I go 125 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: off the basic training and I was not in good 126 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: shape when I showed up and I just out I 127 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: outworked everybody because I was so determined to not only 128 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: be in the military, but to be in the special Forces. 129 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: You know what. It took a year and a half 130 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: to get through all that training, and obviously it was 131 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: incredibly challenging, and you know, I learned a lot about 132 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: myself and mental toughness, and but also just what what 133 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: what the human body is capable of, you know, and 134 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: what the I guess the human spirits capable of if 135 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: you just make a decision and commit to it and 136 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: make some sacrifices around that. So I got through it all, 137 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: earned my green beret, you know, headed off first to 138 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: to Okinawa in Japan. That's where I was stationed first. Um, 139 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: you know, from there, I did various tours, you know, 140 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: different different places in the world, and I went to 141 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: Iraq and that was a that was, I mean a 142 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: crazy experience, just my my first deployment. You know, I 143 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: felt I felt comfortable being in a place like that 144 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: because of my time in the Dark Fur. But it's 145 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: very different when you know you're going around in camouflage 146 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: and and you know, with weapons and these gun trucks 147 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: and you're, you know, chasing down terrorists. I mean, that's 148 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: a it's a very different mission. Through that deployment, me 149 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: and my my, my, my special Forces team to twelve 150 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: man detachment. You know, we we we trained thousands of Iraqis, 151 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: whether they were police officers that would become SWAT or 152 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: army that would become Iraqi Special Forces. Fight fight along 153 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: these guys, you know, and we're we're chasing down some 154 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq in our region. 155 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: Towards the end of the deployment in Iraq, I made 156 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: a decision that I was gonna I was gonna transition 157 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: into the National Guard when I got back, and I 158 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: was going to go back to college and try and 159 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: play football. I'd never never played before. It was a 160 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: huge regret I had growing up. It was my favorite 161 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: sport and I just never did it, you know. And 162 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: that school ended up being being the University of Texas, 163 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: who had just had just been in the National Championship 164 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: Game the year before, and obviously it's a historic program. 165 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, football is just it's just an escape, you know, 166 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: and it's it's it's a it's a great thing in 167 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: this country where you look up in the stands and 168 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: everybody's got different political opinions, and you know, different colors 169 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: and and all that, but they're all wearing the same 170 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 1: team color, you know, and they're all for the most part, 171 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: cheering together and they don't really care about any of 172 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: that stuff for three hours. So you know, I make 173 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: the team get through tryouts, and you know, probably by 174 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: the skin of my teeth. Yeah, I played that first 175 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: year on the scout team, you know, and every game 176 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: coach mac Brown had me run out of the tunnel 177 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: with the American flag leading the team out, and it 178 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: was just it was special, man, to see that that 179 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: crowd roar every time you do that. And but I 180 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: wanted to play. I wanted to find a way on 181 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: the field. So I started long snapping. The starter was 182 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: a senior that year and obviously never long snap before, 183 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: and I was, you know at the time, uh, I 184 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: just just turned in thirty one years old. You know, 185 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: long snapped my first football and that summer, I told you, 186 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: it was in the National Guard. That summer I went 187 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: back overseas and I brought a couple of footballs with me, 188 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: and every every summer while I was in college, i'd 189 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: go over the last two summers, I went over to 190 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: Afghanistan for about three and a half months and you know, 191 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: just deployed with the Special Forces team again and you know, 192 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: serve my country for for that time. And then I 193 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: would trade in my body armor and helmet for my 194 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: football helmet shoulder pads, and they literally would fly me 195 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: back the day before training campus start and then go 196 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: back to Texas and re enroll in school and you know, 197 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: start practicing with the football team. And it was a 198 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 1: pretty bizarre juxtaposition. They're that kind of back and forth. 199 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: But but I really enjoyed it, enjoyed continuing to serve 200 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: and you know, to go back over there, and but yeah, 201 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: i'd bring footballs with me and you know, practice long snapping. 202 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: Came back to Texas and that sophomore year, my sophomore year, 203 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: I won that job, won the long snapping job and 204 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: started for three years. I finished I actually finished my 205 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: master's degree at University of Texas. That last year playing football, 206 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: I made the decision that I was even though I 207 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: was thirty four years old, I was going to make 208 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: a run at the NFL and just see what happens. 209 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: You know, I played in the Senior All Star game 210 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: called the Medal of Honorable out in Charleston, and there 211 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: was a bunch of scouts there. They're watching me snap 212 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: and like, I talked to four different teams during that process, 213 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: and they said, look, you're gonna have to put on 214 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: about thirty five pounds, but you should go for it, 215 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: you know. And at the time I was obviously I'm 216 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not very big right now, about five 217 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: eleven and I probably weighed there and they were telling 218 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: me I needed to weigh about two thirty. I started 219 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: eating like crazy and training different. I moved to uh 220 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: after l A and started training at at Unbreakable Performance Center, 221 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: which is Jay Glazers Gym. Draft draft time rolls around, 222 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, I get all the way up to two pounds. 223 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: I get a phone call on the last day of 224 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: the draft from Pete Carroll the Seattle Seahawks, and so Pete, 225 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: you know, told me that he appreciates guys with a 226 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: chip on their shoulder, you know. He he he was 227 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: grateful for my service in the country and all that, 228 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: and he's like, but that's not why I want you 229 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: to you know, command her. I want I want to 230 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: give you a genuine shot, because you know, we we 231 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: want people in our locker room. You know that that 232 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 1: are they're willing to fight, you know what I mean. 233 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: You look at a lot of that team at the time, 234 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,200 Speaker 1: they had just come off back to back Super Bowls. 235 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: A lot of those guys were undrafted, you know, player 236 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: you look at our late round draft picks, they were 237 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: willing to sacrifice quite a bit to get to get 238 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: where they needed to be to be elite. You know, 239 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: I felt that same kind of draw as as I 240 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: did when I was trying out for the Special Forces. 241 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: You know that this is a long shot, but I'm 242 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: gonna give it a chance. And I went up there. 243 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: I went through training camp. You know, we get to 244 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: uh the first preseason game, and the team asked me 245 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: if I want to lead lead them out with the 246 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 1: American flag, and I was like, of course, you know, 247 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: I'd love to do that. So then before the game, 248 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, in college, we're not on the sideline when 249 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: the national anthems played at this time. You know, in 250 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: the NFL, that's that's obviously what we do. Everybody knows 251 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: that now. So I'm standing out there as the national 252 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: anthems playing. I started to cry because I thought about 253 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: everything I you know, I guess been through and that 254 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: the odds that overcome to get to that point. But 255 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: also I thought of, you know, all the men and 256 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: women that were still fighting over there right now, and 257 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: maybe they're watching this game, you know, and I remember 258 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: what that feeling was like. It was my most special 259 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: moment on a football field. Ever. It wasn't even during 260 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: a game, you know, it was pre game and then 261 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: the game starts and you know, we play and I 262 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: did great. But as all great things begin, they must end, 263 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: and my career was very short lived. That was the 264 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: only game I'd ever played, but it was truly special one, 265 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, and I'll never forget it. And from that 266 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: point on, I was always I was continuing to look 267 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 1: for these different challenges, you know. I took some wounded 268 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: vets and some former NFL players up to climb Mount Killerman, 269 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: jar Oh as part of a clean water project. With 270 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: Chris Long, I co founded a nonprofit called Merging Vets 271 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 1: and Players with with Jay Glazer m v P, where 272 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: we're bringing combat veterans and former professional athletes together and 273 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: helping them find purpose once that uniform and identity kind 274 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: of comes off. The next season is it's two thousand 275 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: and sixteen, and once again it's during the preseason. I'm 276 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: not playing this time, but Colin Kaepernick is all of 277 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: a sudden sitting on the bench during the national anthem, 278 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: and it's obviously guarding quite a bit of attention. And 279 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: it was just this time where it felt like we 280 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: were really dividing. You know, people were much like a 281 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: football game pick people were picking their team and we're 282 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: becoming die hard fans of that team at all cars. 283 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's all about proving my point and winning 284 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: my team, winning our country just further divided over this 285 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: this anthem issue. Right. I got reached out to by 286 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: you know, several different publications to write an OpEd you know, 287 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: they wanted me to, i think, write an opinion piece. 288 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: And what it felt like is people wanted me to 289 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: wance again interject or inject my personal emotional feelings on 290 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: this thing, which is in my opinion, was not going 291 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: to help, you know, It's just gonna stir up more controversy. 292 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: So I refused. Finally, the Army Times said, okay, you 293 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: you can write anything you want. You know, we just 294 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: need we would love you to write something and you can, 295 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, approve the final edit, and and that's that's that. 296 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: I said, okay, because the only way I'm gonna do 297 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: this is if I write an open letter. I'm just 298 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: gonna write an open letter to Colin and explain my experience, 299 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: you know, try to understand his. And that's it. It 300 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna be I'm right, you're wrong, or anything like that. 301 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: So I just sort of told some of my story 302 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: through the letter. I talked about, you know what what 303 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: that flag and anthem represent to me? You know, to me, 304 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: it's it's not so much about the words to the song, 305 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: it's what that symbol stands for, you know, these ultimate 306 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: freedoms and ultimate rights. But I also said, I want 307 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 1: to hear your story, and I'm willing to listen because 308 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I mean to free 309 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 1: the oppressed is something that I want to do for 310 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: the rest of my life. It doesn't have to be 311 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: in in Sudan or Iraq or Afghanistan, can be here 312 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: in America. And if you don't feel equal or like 313 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: you count in some way, I want to work towards 314 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: making that happen. You know. The letter went out the 315 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: next morning, it went like crazy viral, and Colin actually 316 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: reached out to me personally and said he wanted to meet. 317 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: So I met with him the next day down to 318 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: San Diego during the last preseason game against San Diego Chargers, 319 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: and we sat down in the team hotel in the 320 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: lobby about four hours before kickoff, and we just talked 321 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: for you know, a good hour and a half, two 322 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,480 Speaker 1: hours about our experiences. You know, we we we just 323 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: talked about everything going on in our country, and we 324 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: listened to each other, and it was it was interesting 325 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: to see how sensitive Colin was to the fact that 326 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: I had served, and it seemed like he was sort 327 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: of searching I wouldn't say for a way out, but 328 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: for a way, for a way in which this protester 329 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: demonstration would would come across. I guess, I don't know, 330 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: maybe more open minded on his side, maybe just something 331 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: something different, something where you know, he felt he wasn't 332 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: disrespecting people, because there was a lot of voices out 333 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 1: there and he wanted to make sure people understood this 334 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: is not about the military. This isn't even really about 335 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: the flag or the anthem, you know, it's about in 336 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 1: his in his eyes, this you know, this racial injustice 337 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 1: that exists in our country, police brutality, all these things. 338 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: And I understood that, you know, And as much as 339 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: him sitting hurt me, I still I didn't. I didn't 340 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: really feel that anger anymore than I initially, you know, 341 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: when I first saw that, I had this impulse of 342 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: just anger and and maybe even hatred for what he 343 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: was doing, not for him, but you know, I also 344 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: realized that that that sort of militancy in my mind 345 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: is not going to solve this problem. You know. We 346 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: talked about a lot of stuff, you know, and he 347 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 1: told me how much he appreciated not only my service, 348 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: but his family and friends he had had in both 349 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: of the police forces and in the Armed forces. And 350 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: and I showed him a couple of messages from buddies 351 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: of mind that were in the Special Forces, you know, 352 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: one of which he had he had just come from 353 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: military funeral where, uh, you know, the caskets strapped in 354 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 1: an American flag is one of his brothers in armed 355 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: one of our fellow Green Berets, it was killed. And 356 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: then they know, they hand this folded flag to his 357 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: wife and it's a very you know, it's it's an 358 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: emotional situation. Anybody that wouldn't stand for that, in his mind, 359 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: it just feels it filled his heart with rage. And 360 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: I showed that message to Colin, and Colin responded to 361 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 1: that as well, and so he asked me, you know what, 362 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: what do you think another way of demonstrating would be 363 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: where I I don't hurt these people because I won't stand, 364 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: you know. And I thought, in times of crisis like that, 365 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: I mean, the last thing the hero does is sit 366 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: it out, you know, just the way that that looked, 367 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: especially like isolated from his team. So I said, I said, 368 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: more than anything, I think you should be alongside your teammates, 369 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: whether they you know, some of them agree with you 370 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: or disagree with you or whatever. You should embrace them. 371 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 1: I mean that locker room, that's your family, you know. 372 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: And then I suggested taking a knee instead. I thought 373 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: it was more respectful if he wasn't willing to stand. 374 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: I thought that was an upgrade in some ways. And 375 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: people taking a knee day to pray and proposed to 376 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: their wives. And you know, even a folded flag is 377 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: often handed to a family member who loses somebody, and 378 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: sometimes when it's handed it's the person takes a knee 379 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:13,959 Speaker 1: in front of them when they give it to him. 380 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: We take a knee at Arlington to pay our respects, 381 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: you know, and he agreed. He thought that was that 382 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: was powerful, you know. Him and Eric Read was alongside 383 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: him the hotel there and and both of them sort 384 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: of you know, thought about it and said, yeah, I 385 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: think we should do that that that day, I guess 386 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: that night, and they played the Chargers the anthems playing 387 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: before the game, and I'm actually standing on the sideline 388 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 1: next to Calling and Eric while they took a knee 389 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 1: for the first time. There was still booze from the crowd, 390 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: and which was so bizarre to because it's during the anthem, 391 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, and there was a h an African American 392 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: I think he was a sailors one in the Navy 393 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,680 Speaker 1: that was singing the anthem that day, you know, and 394 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: it's military appreciation Day. They had a flyover and people 395 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: parachuting in and all that stuff. It was just a 396 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: really interesting time. But I look at that snapshot of 397 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: me standing next to Colin while he's taking a knee, 398 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,239 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, maybe that's the direction our 399 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: country needs to add, though, like we don't necessarily see 400 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: eye to eye and stuff. We don't agree on everything. 401 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: We have different experiences that shape what we believe. But 402 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 1: we're still going to have this conversation and listen to 403 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: one another. And you know, he's going to respect the 404 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: fact that I'm standing next to him with my hand 405 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: on my heart, and I can respect the fact that 406 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: he's taken a knee and neither of us have to 407 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: We don't even have to like each other, but to 408 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: appreciate one another's opinions and respect them is the most 409 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: important thing. Is that's what I did in the military, 410 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 1: That's what I did overseas. And you know that that 411 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: story garnered some attention for a short time. But then, 412 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, the louder voices are, in my opinion, the 413 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: more extreme ones that are more divisive, you know, that 414 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: don't want to listen. They just want to shout, you know, 415 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: wait for their turn to shout back. You know, not everybody, 416 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: um that you know, not everybody that leans a certain 417 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: way politically, that that doesn't mean that they just won't 418 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: even listen or don't even take into account somebody else's 419 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 1: feelings and their experience, you know, and people need to 420 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: understand that. You know that, um, because they feel a 421 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:33,400 Speaker 1: certain way or you know, lead a certain direction. Um 422 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: that everybody on the other side is just you know wrong, 423 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: Like there's no way that half of our country is 424 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: just good in the other half is just completely evil. 425 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: It's just it's silly. We need to get past that. 426 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: And I think, I mean, most people in our country 427 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: to understand that. But I don't know if it feels 428 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: that way right now. We just don't seem to have 429 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: that voice or reason. It's absolutely possible. We've been through 430 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: We've been through a lot in our country. Um, in 431 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: our history, We've we've done horrible things, you know, and 432 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: recovered from that for the most part, you know, to 433 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: work to improve that. We still have a long way 434 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: to go. But you know, if you look back at 435 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: h you know, some of the some of the stuff 436 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 1: that we've done in the past, I'm not proud of, 437 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 1: you know, but I am proud of how we've moved 438 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: out of that, you know, and even from since the 439 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: civil rights movements are now there's still a lot of 440 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: work that needs to be done, but progress has been made, 441 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: and we just need to keep improving that and pushing 442 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: towards that. And all the good people in our country, 443 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: which is most of us need to be leading that conversation. 444 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,640 Speaker 1: This has been the NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback 445 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 1: or request a topic for discussion, email us at NFL 446 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: Legends at nfl dot com.