WEBVTT - Microtherapeutics 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.360 This is the Anxiety Bites podcast and I am your host, 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:18.800 Jen Kirkman. Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. I'm 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.960 your host, Jen Kirkman. I'm so excited about our guest today, 0:00:23.040 --> 0:00:27.720 Dr Nina Vawson. She is so brilliant and so enthusiastic 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:31.800 and so kind and it was just wonderful talking to her. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.920 And she addresses things that we haven't really talked about 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.640 on the podcast before, which is what does the future 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:43.800 brain for treatment of anxiety and other mental health issues? 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.640 Where where are we falling short and and where are 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.839 the spaces that need to be filled? And what I 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:55.720 love about my conversation with Dr Boston is there are 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.520 so many solutions that she gives and the science to 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.559 back it up. And y'all are going to get something 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.399 for free. So don't you fast forward this little intro. 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:10.640 I'm gonna give it to you right now and we'll 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:15.800 get into you'll hear in the episode more about what 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:19.320 it is that Dr Vosson works on. But she is 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:23.520 the chief medical officer of a company called Real And again, 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.520 you're about to get something free, so keep listening. It's 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.679 a mental health care company that's building a new therapy model. 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:33.640 Through a monthly membership, Real provides care to members that 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.400 they're able to access anonymously on their own terms, at 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:39.520 a price that is more affordable than other therapeutic approaches. 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:44.520 Through modernized therapist designed programs, they're improving the quality of 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.119 mental health care and making it accessible to more people, 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.200 especially the nearly of people that are left out of 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:55.400 the current traditional one to one therapy systems. So right 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:58.560 now there is a code you will get a free 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:02.960 month of membership on a monthly membership offering valid through 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:05.600 May thirty one. Okay, so you've got a month. The 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:09.760 steps to redeem it are go to join dash real 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:13.680 dot com. Select Join Now at the top, select the 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:17.840 monthly option, and proceed to their member info at the paywall, 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.480 where it asks you to input your credit card. There 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.000 will be a selection for a coupon code promo and 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.840 you will enter anxiety bites. Click and complete, and now 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:30.040 you have one month of a free monthly membership to 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.400 Reel and you can download the app to continue member 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.639 on boarding and ultimately picking a pathway to get started. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:38.839 And so you may ask, well, what is this real? 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.240 What are you talking about? You'll see when you go 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:47.560 to the website. But basically what Dr Vasson does she 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:57.799 leads something at Stanford University called brain Storm and it's 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:00.600 a lab. So the Stanford Lab for Mental Health Innovation 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:04.920 otherwise known as Brainstorm, focuses on trying to solve the 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:10.040 mental health crisis through entrepreneurship. Right, So basically, there's a 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:14.160 really depressing statistic that over the course of a lifetime, 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:18.400 fifty of Americans will have a diagnosable mental health disorder. However, 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.520 if we optimized all the therapists in the United States, 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.080 we'd only have enough therapists to treat seven percent of 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:31.880 the American population. Again, despite the fact that of Americans 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.960 will have a diagnosable mental health disorder. So sometimes people 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:43.080 need solutions. And what Nina's student, one of her students 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.400 from her Brainstorm lab did was that that that's what 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.320 they do with the the Stanford Brainstorm Lab is they 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:55.160 come up with ways that young people can become entrepreneurs 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:59.520 in ways that help people with mental health. So one 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.000 of her or students is now the CEO and founder 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:08.880 of Real which is one solution to mental health. And 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.280 what Dr Voston works on with a lot of online 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:15.320 companies like Pinterest, or TikTok is something known as micro therapeutics, 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.240 which is a tool kit of exercises that are based 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.640 in cognitive behavioral therapy, dialectical behavioral therapy, acceptance and commitment 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.440 therapy translated into two or three minute things that you 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:27.919 can do online for free and actually feel better in 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:30.719 just a few minutes. It's it's a compassionate experience. That 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.760 is the opposite of when you log onto a website 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:35.960 and something pops up and tries to sell you something, 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.479 or you see a negative comment. It's literally the opposite. 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.240 It's it's information that kind of just comes to you 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.359 and it gives you things you can do right in 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:49.120 that moment. Because, as I learned from Dr Boston, the 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.400 average person who suddenly feels a symptom of anxiety or 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.600 any kind of mental health issue, it takes up for 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.479 some eleven years before they decide to set foot into 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.479 a therapist office. So imagine, you know, and that was 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.800 my story as well as Dr boston stories. It took 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.920 almost a decade to go get help. And so imagine 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:10.640 if in that time, uh that you know, imagine if 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.919 in those ten years you have little tools along the 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.520 way to help you in the moment with your symptoms. 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:21.159 It would certainly alleviate all of the things we do 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:25.560 that are you know, not great choices to alleviate our anxiety, 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.839 right over, eating drugs, alcohol, maybe even just you know, 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.440 taking our anger out on other people, sleeping all day whatever. 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:35.320 It is just maladaptive behaviors that you know, we do 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.400 because we're self soothing, we're self medicating. We don't know 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.920 how to fix this, and you know, imagine doing things 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:46.240 that help here and there on the way to your 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:48.440 journey to finally walk in the door of a therapist office. 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:51.520 And so I just found this conversation today so fascinating. 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:56.680 I learned so much that although it seems like everybody 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.760 is having mental health issues and it seems overwhelming, how 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:02.880 are we going to get everyone this help? It is possible. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:05.960 And I love the idea that people are going to 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:10.520 college and learning about ways to become an entrepreneur, not 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:15.599 so they can sell us more lotions and and leggings, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:19.200 but so that they can find a way that that 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.680 mental health solutions can be integrated into our you know, 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:27.480 we're already online life. So again I hope you will 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:30.479 sign up for the free offer for a month of 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.880 real and again all of that will be in the 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:36.480 show notes, so you can just click there and get 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:41.159 on it. So again, today I talked to Dr Boston 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:46.280 about the fact that she is someone that had anxiety 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:51.479 and still has anxiety and depression as she still is this, 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.640 you know, brilliant doctor. It happens to the best of us. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:57.000 And we talked a little bit about, you know, our 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.880 COVID habits and what she's doing to make changes. She 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:06.520 explains the biopsycho social model that is how we diagnose 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.640 and treat anxiety, and she just has a lot of 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:17.320 great facts about what actually helps alleviate our anxiety. And 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.200 again there's no magic pill, and you're going to hear 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.200 a lot of the same things that you've heard in 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:27.280 other episodes about mindfulness and sleep and exercises because that 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.840 stuff works. But what I love the Dr of Boston 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.680 does she will actually write things like that on a 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:37.200 prescription ban. Anyway, let me just let me just start 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.040 the episode. You don't need to hear me describe what 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.160 we talked about. Let's just go there now. Well, let 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.680 me let me of course brief you on again who 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:50.000 I'm chatting with. Dr Nina Vasston is the chief medical 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.120 officer of Real, a mental health care company building a 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:55.800 new therapy model. Outside of her work at Real, she 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:59.120 is a psychiatrist and professor at Stanford, where she is 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:03.200 the founder and executive director of Brainstorm, the Stanford Lab 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.640 for Mental Health Innovation. She has served as a healthcare 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.520 advisor to the United Nations, the World Health Organization, and 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:15.080 the Obama and Biden presidential campaigns. Dr Vasson earned an 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.640 a b in Government from Harvard College, graduating as one 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.600 of Glamor magazine's top ten college women, m D from 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.440 Harvard Medical School, NBA from Stanford Graduate School of Business, 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.640 and completed psychiatry residency at the Stanford School of Medicine, 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:36.120 where she was Chief Resident. Oh my god, Uh, I mean, 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.560 I think she's pretty qualified to tell us what to do. Me. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.079 On the other hand, I got a Bachelor of Arts 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.320 in modern dance. So so don't take don't take my 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:49.360 word on anything. Just just let's just listen to Dr Boston. Okay, 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.880 Dr Vosson, thank you for doing the show. And you know, 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.440 everyone just heard in the intro your credentials and how 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.400 um acclaimed and brilliant you are. But you're still a 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:09.240 human and I would love to hear your experience with 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:12.680 anxiety past and present. You know, how did it manifest 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.000 in your life, how did you cope? What what does 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.440 it look like on the day to day Now, First 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:19.400 of all, thank you Jeds so much for having me 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.440 and and let me take a step back, thank you 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.640 for having this podcast. Thank you for talking about mental 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.520 help with so many people. It's incredibly you know, important, 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.880 and I just really appreciate the platform that that you 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:34.880 created here. Oh thanks, It is the joy of my life. 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.000 I could do this all day. So it's really easy 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.400 to do because I love it. I love that. I 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.840 absolutely love that. And to answer your question, so actually 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.880 on my LinkedIn, the very first thing that I share 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:51.680 before any credential, before any title, is UM, that is 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.960 my now twenty plus history with both anxiety and depression, 0:09:56.600 --> 0:10:00.280 and going back, I think starting in as a teenage Jeer, 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:05.079 I had pretty bad social anxiety as well as general anxiety, 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:08.400 both kind of emotional and physical manifestations of that. And 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.160 just to give you some examples, UM, I was a 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:13.880 math nerd in your growing up and one of the 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.080 things I remember is before any math competition, I would 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.560 get like nausea, upset stomach, have to go to the 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:22.200 bathroom multiple times in the morning. We we go to 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:24.640 like other other schools and like I go to their 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.120 their bathrooms like for like twenty minutes before the competitions 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.360 would start. Had no idea what that meant. Oh, it 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:32.360 took like ten years to finally figure out we know 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.920 why that was always happening and that this was a pattern. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.280 And you know, sweaty palms, those were sort of the 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.880 physical manifestations I would get pretty regularly before before things 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:44.840 like that have stake sorts of things in particular. And 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.200 then in terms of social anxiety, you know, getting really 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:52.280 really nervous before but before kind of any type of 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.880 social event. But moreover, you know, worrying that people were 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.000 judging me and um anything that I would say, uh, 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:01.800 be thinking so much about how are people going to 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:04.439 you know, perceive what what that is that I'm saying. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.760 And uh so that that was one of the second thing. 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:08.240 And I think, you know, as a teenager, of both 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:12.959 were the things that definitely manifested. As time has gone on. Um, luckily, 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.320 I think that both of those have certainly gotten better. However, 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.360 I do still struggle with anxiety today, um, you know, 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:22.560 twenty years later, and I think different manifestations of it. Um. 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:26.920 It shows up in certainly in various forms. And one 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:28.720 of the these I think is really important to understand 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.720 about anxiety is that one is on a spectrum, you know, 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:34.800 from zero to a hundred, if you will, and throughout 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:37.800 our lifetimes that that will change. And even in what 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.880 I'm standing, like, the flavor of anxiety can change for 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.880 someone and as different you know, life stressors come and go, Um, 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.360 things get better and worse and so um. You know. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:51.000 For me, I think that I've been in treatment now 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.400 for I guess probably about ten years, um, meaning both 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.480 both medications and various forms of therapy, as well as 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:00.520 some of the things I hope we talked up today, 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:06.280 um you know, doing things like um, gratitude, mindfulness, journaling, exercise, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.800 so many, so many of the kind of things that 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.600 we talked about now is lifestyle and wellness and well being, 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:14.280 and um, they've all you know, I would say that 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.559 every kind of every type of treatment out there has 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.120 definitely helped me a little in different ways. Um. And 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.120 but but nothing also has been like a quick fix 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.400 or a cure. Uh. Yeah, that one one more thing 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.880 I'll share about that is that UM, I think most recently, 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.439 certainly I I didn't even, I think, appreciate the extent 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.960 of my anxiety until COVID started. And I think a 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:38.800 lot of people have had similar experiences where maybe their 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.600 anxiety was kind of under the radar, and then with 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:45.240 COVID they like you know, became an overwhelming thing or 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.160 have been something that they dealt with for a long time, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.719 it reached absolute new heights where for some people that 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:53.240 was crippling. They's hard to have panic attacks. UM. For me, 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:56.480 I think what I realized was one, uh, really a 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.360 lack of self care. This is very very common that doctors, 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.840 while we tell our patients to do all these things 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.280 for them so for them, we do not do it ourselves. 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.280 And that was something that was really big for me. 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.600 But in the in the context of that, UM, really 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:14.000 I think having when I was anxious, UM, for me, 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:17.440 what that meant was often turning to food UM and 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.000 and at times also also like having a couple of 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.600 extra glasses of wine, you know. And I think that 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.880 both of those kind of overeating over drinking are things 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.720 that are you know, very very common sort of self 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.360 you know self medicating if you will, for anxiety and 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.800 and so those are things I actually stopped drinking UM 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.360 and I'm now I'm actually right now learning how to 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.280 deal with my anxiety and triggers. I said, I'm not 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.560 having that extra cookie or you know, calling pizza delivery 0:13:43.640 --> 0:13:45.959 at ten pm. UM. But it's something I've stopping with 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:47.440 real for a long time. And I think now what 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.160 I realize is it's tart. I'm trying to accept it, 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.080 realize I will struggle with it and that's okay, And 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:55.840 let me get the right tools so that I can, 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.040 um make things a little bit better on a daily basis. 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.360 And just relating to that really quick, just so people 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:06.480 can hear how anxiety is so sneaky. Um. I've had 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.439 generalized anxiety order panic disorder undiagnosed since I was probably eight, 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:15.319 diagnosed at age forty seven now, and it moves around, 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.160 it changes. I feel like some things are completely mastered. 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:22.080 And so what was interesting is because I had such 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:27.240 a good handle on anxious feelings, panic attack symptoms and 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:31.440 even rumination, I didn't suffer that in the pandemic. However, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.120 I did start. Oh, I'll just have a couple of 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.880 drinks every night. Oh, I'll just order food at ten 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:40.840 at night when I should just go to bed. But 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:45.240 I wasn't feeling anything I could identify. I didn't feel nerves, 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:47.440 I didn't feel the onset of panic. I didn't even 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.920 feel sadness. I felt nothing. And now I know that 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.320 all those coping mechanisms were anxiety. And what it doesn't 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.240 actually frighten me. I'm just being verbose. But what is 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.400 interesting to note is that unlike all beings IDEA had 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.960 in my life, and I thought I was handling the 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.320 pandemic so well because I wasn't panicking, is oh, I 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.920 didn't even know how to identify it. It was so 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.480 it didn't have any symptoms. Honestly, I just had the 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:18.640 the the bad solutions, you know. And I think that's 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.640 a little frightening. I guess it is frightening. It is. 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.840 You're absolutely right. It is frightening because especially when we're 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.680 aware of certain things, and we can tell our emotions 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.280 have changed, you know, and we know what to look 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.120 for when that goes away, and there's nothing that you 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.000 can sense is very frightening. And in this case, I 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.840 think what you saw was a change in your behavior 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.760 but it was difficult to associate that behavior with anxiety 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.800 because those same triggers that you had before weren't coming up, right. Um, 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.360 And so I think that exactly what you dealt with, 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.720 Jen is what I mean meant, like, you know, millions 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.040 of people in our country and and certainly around the 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.000 world experienced over the last few years with you know, 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.760 and we saw that we saw like you know, weight 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.600 gain increased, the amount of substances that people have been 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.160 consuming has increased. And so these are very very common 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:10.240 and the easiest accessible things that we know. That kind 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.920 of sued us, right and so, um incredibly incredibly common. 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.960 And I think that um, as we move forward, the 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.760 more we can become aware of what are these things 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.400 that we do and how do we cope? Um, that 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.080 that will that benefit all of us because exactly like 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.120 you said, it's like, oh, I didn't realize that's what 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.520 it was. This question just came to me. It maybe 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.720 less of a question than a comment. It's so hard 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.640 because being a teenager, our hormones are going crazy, We're 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.520 experiencing so many things for the first time. We don't 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.360 have any life experience to draw, and of course we're 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:46.480 going to have anxiety, So it's really hard to tell 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:51.440 what's situational, you know what I'm a teenager and what's Oh, 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.640 I might have an anxiety disorder and this will probably 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.480 continue into my twenties and thirties. Do you think it's 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.920 more of the way like sort of what the teen 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.480 mager does to cope is what causes it to become 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:07.560 an anxiety disorder or not? One. I think that's a 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:09.800 great it's a great question one because it's like, how 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.320 do we know for ourselves what's normal and what's not? 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.040 And you know, I speak around around the country to 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.000 big groups of people, especially now a lot of employers, 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.520 will you know, we'll talk to large companies everything, And actually, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.960 one of the most common questions I get, jen is 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:24.159 is kind of I think one of the things you're 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.080 referred to is how do I know if this is 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.520 normal or something that's actually a disorder? Wherein any to 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.280 seek help? And so I think, even as a teenager, 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:37.679 one big important way to distinguish that is how much 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.000 does it affect in your life? In the sense that 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.280 if we think about anxiety, is it you know, I 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.280 get a little nervous before the s A T S 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.399 or but you know, Oh there's a cute guy, and 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.520 my palms get sweaty, you know, as he's trying to 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:53.720 talk to me. That's what happens to me. But but um, 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.720 you know, I think thinking about that versus I'm so 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.359 anxious that I'm only sleeping three hours at night or 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.240 you know, I I my grades dropped. You know, I 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:04.960 used to be as straight a student and now I'm 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:08.600 getting sees because I can't focus right, that type of 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.080 a change where you're not taking care of yourself, like 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.280 the goals you have in life for yourself, for sports, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.720 for relationships, for school, like those are all changing. That's 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.800 I think the best way to see are you able 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.160 to cope and live the life you want to or 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:25.000 is this issue getting in the way. Um. So that's 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.000 the first part of that. The second part what I'm 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:30.480 hearing you is saying is like, how do we know what? 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.320 You know? Why really is anxiety? Why does anxiety occur? 0:18:33.600 --> 0:18:36.239 And what are the things that happen in childhood that 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.320 can lead to it being a bigger issue as an 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.040 adult versus not? And what that I think it's ays 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.359 to is the biopsychosocial model of e mentally list in 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.960 particular of anxiety. UM, I'll pause, There is that something 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.639 we should talk about? Yeah, biopsychosocial on my list. Well, 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:55.920 let's go there now, and then I want to get 0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:01.400 into your um, you know, your academic laboratory and you're 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.000 you know, concept of technology and entrepreneurship. But but let's 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:07.359 get into biopsychosocial. So that's a new thing I'm hearing, 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:10.760 and I know the concept is not new, But UM, 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.560 I've heard you saying a lot in my research, and 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.000 I would love for you to explain what do you 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.720 mean when you say that? And how does that? How 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.400 does how does that help you help people? Absolutely, So 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.679 when we say biopsychosocial, what that refers to is the 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.840 way that we think about why any mental health condition, 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:36.560 whether that's anxiety, depression, trauma, obsessive compulsive disorder, why it occurs, 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:39.520 why it manifest in the first place, as well as 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.159 then actually it gives us a framework for how to 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.199 then treat deep these conditions. So let me explain what 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:49.000 that means. So when we say biopsychosocial, what that means 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.840 is that the reason anxiety occurs is actually this combination 0:19:53.160 --> 0:20:01.000 of biological, psychological, and social factors. Biologically, that means like 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.200 things like our genetics, right, like if mom or dad 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.040 was anxious, there's a much higher likelihood that you're going 0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.080 to be anxious because this stuff gets passed on in 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.119 the d n A. From the psychological perspective, that means 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.840 how do you talk to yourself and cope with stressors 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:19.760 and um that you know what, what's what's your dialogue 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.959 with yourself? That's the kind of psychological what's your resilience 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:26.399 like a component? I think the social component is actually 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.040 one of the most fascinating. And when we say social, 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.320 that's a mix of I would say two big things. 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:36.199 One is historical, meaning what was your childhood like? You know, 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:38.480 if we think about, for example, now all the kids 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:41.400 who grew up throughout COVID, this will be a part 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:43.800 of their life for you know, for their entire life, 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:48.120 and how will that manifest as you know, as things continue? 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:50.520 And so did you grow up in a household that 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.480 was very supportive, encouraging, did you grow up, you know, 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.280 in the midst of war, or have immense trauma where 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:02.000 you bullied as a child. All those very much significantly 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.199 lead to what anxiety can look like, not only as 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.840 a child but also as an adult. And then secondly 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.360 we have environment. And so I think the biggest way 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:13.359 to think about the environment just let's think about the 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.680 last two years and how everyone's life has changed, and 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.920 where the environment that we're living in because of all 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.760 these literally like you know, changes to what our home 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.760 looks like, what work looks like, what our relationships look like, 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:30.200 all of that, uh increases what you know, in this case, 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.600 it increases anxiety. Um And so all of those together 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:39.320 actually help us conceptualize why anxiety occurs. Now, what last 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.440 thing will add about that, I think that's really important 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:43.679 and makes is also what I think in a lot 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:47.560 of ways, what makes mental health fascinating and frustrating, maybe 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.080 compared to some other areas of medicine, is that in 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.000 other areas of medicine, we have a blood test or 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:55.960 you know, you can get an X ray or m 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.080 r I and you can really see exactly what they are, 0:21:59.200 --> 0:22:02.359 or like you have the number telling you what level 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.400 things are in terms of figuring out the severity of disease. 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:10.600 The issue with mental health is that, um, one, you know, 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.600 we don't have that, but moreover, we don't really know 0:22:13.880 --> 0:22:17.560 right now, how like what percentage of my anxiety versus 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:22.040 your anxiety is biological versus psychological versus social. We can 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.320 get a full history and kind of make some guesses like, oh, 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:28.760 you know, my mom also has anxiety, so that certainly 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:31.959 means it's probably and my brother has anxieties. There's probably 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.760 a family component. How big is that, We're not quite sure. 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:38.520 Hopefully in the future will start to have more information 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:40.959 to get this, but right now we don't. UM. So 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:44.520 I think really what we should take from this is recognizing, 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:47.200 you know, it's not the kind of old school ways 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.280