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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Laverne Cox Show, a production of Shondaland

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Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And I say you are not a DJ until you

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Speaker 2: have DJ to a room of black coins standing there

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Speaker 2: with their arms folded looking at you. Say, I'm waiting

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Speaker 2: for you to turn them out, and those girls are unforgiving.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things that I say, you are

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Speaker 3: not a DJ. And so you've played to the children

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Speaker 3: in New York.

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Speaker 2: Because if you do not turn them, you're out work,

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Speaker 2: You're out.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Laverne Cox Show. I'm

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Speaker 1: Laverne Cox.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, I'm so excited. I'm squealing because I get

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Speaker 4: to talk to my old friend, my dear friend, the

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Speaker 4: now Grammy Award winning producer, DJ, fashion designer, historian, living legend,

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Speaker 4: Honey de Jon. This was an historic year at the Grammys.

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Speaker 4: Kim Petris one and a lot of people have been

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Speaker 4: talking about her as the first openly transperson.

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Speaker 1: Winno Grammy.

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Speaker 4: She's not Wendy Carlos won a Grammy and I think

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Speaker 4: the late nineteen sixties for electronic music. Interestingly enough, and

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Speaker 4: Honey Dejon also won a Grammy and she is an

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Speaker 4: openly transgender woman as well, and that just makes me

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Speaker 4: so excited. It's really interesting thinking about where Honey and

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Speaker 4: I come from. We worked at coffee shop at the

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Speaker 4: same time, we were in the scene at the same

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Speaker 4: time in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: Struggled in New York.

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Speaker 4: And she has been traveling the world djaying and is

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Speaker 4: renowned and revered, and she's living her best life and

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Speaker 4: she's doing it on her own terms. And that is

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Speaker 4: such an incredible privilege for anyone to be able to do,

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Speaker 4: but particularly for a black trans woman from the South

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Speaker 4: Side of Chicago. Honey Dejon isn't I American DJ producer,

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Speaker 4: electronic musician, and fashion designer. Renowned for not adhering to

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Speaker 4: any particular genre. She's performed at the most exclusive clubs, festivals, galleries,

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Speaker 4: and fashion events worldwide. She has released five albums, including

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Speaker 4: Best of Both Worlds and her newest Black Girl Magic.

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Speaker 4: Her boiler room set, posted on YouTube, has been viewed

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Speaker 4: over ten million times. In twenty nineteen, in collaboration with

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Speaker 4: com de Garson, she released her Honey Fucking Dijon fashion

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Speaker 4: line as an expression of art, music and culture colliding.

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Speaker 4: She is now a Grammy Award winning producer for her

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Speaker 4: work on Beyonce's Renaissance. Please enjoy my conversation with Honey Dijon.

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Speaker 3: Let's do this.

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Speaker 1: Honey fucking Dijon, Welcome to the podcast. How are you

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Speaker 1: feeling today?

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Speaker 3: I am well.

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Speaker 2: I just finished yoga, so I'm very zen at the moment,

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Speaker 2: but I'm great. I'm really, really great.

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Speaker 4: You've been doing yoga for years, right, Like it's like

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Speaker 4: you're it's one of your things.

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Speaker 2: Yes, you know, wellness is one of my things. I've

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Speaker 2: Actually it's so funny that you say that, because I've

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Speaker 2: been thinking about over the course of my life, and

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Speaker 2: I was just explaining to a friend of mine that

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Speaker 2: I stopped eating meat at nineteen, and I've always been

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Speaker 2: into wellness. It's just something that I was very attracted

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Speaker 2: to at a time when it wasn't in a cultural conversation.

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Speaker 2: But it's one of my stress relievers. It's one of

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Speaker 2: my things that just helps me let go of the

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Speaker 2: daily grind that we all have. And I have a

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Speaker 2: Peloton bike, which I'm obsessed with. I have a trainer,

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Speaker 2: and I do yoga.

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Speaker 1: And I was thinking about this.

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Speaker 4: You know, we're going to get into this, but like

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Speaker 4: I know, you like to do twelve hour DJ sets

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Speaker 4: and you have a lot of energy from your djaying.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, how what is this stamina? What is fitness?

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Speaker 4: Because I know you don't talk about age, but like

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Speaker 4: I'm fifty, I am not in it. If I go

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Speaker 4: to the club and I'm like recovering for days.

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Speaker 1: So they have the.

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Speaker 4: Stamina to give what you give. But I'm just like,

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Speaker 4: how is she doing? Like she is like fully present

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Speaker 4: giving everything, like you be an amazing shape, you know what.

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Speaker 2: I asked my mom about this, and she said, this

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Speaker 2: is a true story. When I was a kid. I

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Speaker 2: came in the world with so much energy that they

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Speaker 2: wanted to put me on Ridland when I was a kid,

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Speaker 2: and my mom refused. She's like, I'm not doing that.

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Speaker 3: It's just me.

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Speaker 2: It's just my fire, it's just my passion, it's just

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Speaker 2: who I am. And I always think of myself as

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Speaker 2: a vessel for the universe to express itself, and this

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Speaker 2: is just my universal energy, Like came into the universe

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Speaker 2: with an unlimited supply of fuel.

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Speaker 4: That's beautiful. And I literally I was thinking about back

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Speaker 4: in the day. We've known each other for a while,

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Speaker 4: thinking back back in the nineties when I would see

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Speaker 4: you dancing and performing and it.

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Speaker 1: Just was electric and it was just popping off of you.

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Speaker 3: The Tasmanian Devil.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, okay, So let's go back a little bit.

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Speaker 4: So I DMed you last year the Beyonce album come out,

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Speaker 4: and I remember I dmd you and I was just

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Speaker 4: so happy and so proud. And we've known each other

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Speaker 4: for a very long time. And you called me and

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Speaker 4: we talked for like two hours and we were talking

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Speaker 4: about music in New York in the nineties and like, yes,

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Speaker 4: soul and Marvin Gay and like we went in and

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Speaker 4: I was like, girl, we need to do this on

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Speaker 4: the podcast and let the children know.

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Speaker 3: Let the children know.

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Speaker 4: Yes, you're such a historian, you're of music, of fashion.

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Speaker 4: But let's start with you are now Grammy Award winning producer.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yes, have you been able to process

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Speaker 1: that now?

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Speaker 2: That means Mama can add another zero to the hero Honey.

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Speaker 1: That prices just went out, honey, yes.

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Speaker 3: Not yesterday's price, baby girl.

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Speaker 1: I feel like there was a moment when I raised

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Speaker 1: my prices too, honey.

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Speaker 3: Yes, your work, your work.

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Speaker 4: Beyond raising the price, beyond that. Thinking about growing up

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Speaker 4: in Chicago, DJing for your parents right before bedtime, discovering

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Speaker 4: house music, and you know, in Chicago at the beginning

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Speaker 4: of it, just that kid who just was creative and

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Speaker 4: who was bullied. And now you have worked with Madonna, Beyonce.

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Speaker 4: I mean, the list goes on and on, and you

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Speaker 4: have a Grammy and it's like, it's this You've been

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Speaker 4: a legend for a long time for real. My brother

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Speaker 4: was in Berlin last year or something and he met

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Speaker 4: some people and he said, oh, I'm from New York

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Speaker 4: and they were like, do you know honey Dejon do

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Speaker 4: Honey Jon, She's so amazing to you, and they just

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Speaker 4: they were just like they lost their minds, just like

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Speaker 4: for people who know you are a legend in an icon.

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Speaker 4: And what it's been so beautiful for me reading a

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Speaker 4: bit about you, knowing you for so long, is that

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Speaker 4: you've resisted being commercial, right, that the house music has

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Speaker 4: changed so much and you stayed true to your roots

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Speaker 4: and to who you are and what you love and

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Speaker 4: what excites you. And there are new sounds, but then

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Speaker 4: there's always something that is about your roots that's there.

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Speaker 4: And one other thing I want to say too, there

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Speaker 4: was a moment many years ago, you were DJing hero

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Speaker 4: in New York City and that was a time. That

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Speaker 4: was a time, and Connie Fleming was working the door, yah,

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Speaker 4: and I remember we got in there. We gotten there

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Speaker 4: early and there was an opening DJ. I don't know

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Speaker 4: who the DJ was. People were just sitting around. There

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Speaker 4: was no energy, right, like, this party is tired and late,

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Speaker 4: and I was like, I want to wait for Honey

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Speaker 4: to come on and DJ, but I don't know if

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Speaker 4: I can stay here, you know, But girl, it was

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Speaker 4: people weren't dancing.

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Speaker 1: It was a sad sight.

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Speaker 4: And then you came on and started djaying and people

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Speaker 4: were up dancing.

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Speaker 1: The molecules of the space shifted.

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Speaker 4: Well that's what I say that to me though, is

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Speaker 4: like I understood something that I didn't understand before about.

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Speaker 1: What a great DJ does. That it was the same room,

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Speaker 1: it was the same people, but all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: something shifted. It became something spiritual, it became something. When

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Speaker 1: we were in Toronto.

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Speaker 4: And you I'm convinced me to come out and I

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Speaker 4: was shooting Rocky Horror in twenty sixteen and we came

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Speaker 4: out to the club. I said to day, girl, let's

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Speaker 4: day twenty minutes you know, so high because I was tired.

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Speaker 4: I was shooting. I was shooting Rocky Wear Picture Show. Actually,

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Speaker 4: oh so I was singing and dancing and doing essence

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Speaker 4: all bass girl.

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Speaker 1: I was like going through it. So I was like,

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Speaker 1: let's day twenty minutes and I'm gonna go home and

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Speaker 1: go to sleep. Girl.

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Speaker 4: We were I think we closed the club. I was dancing,

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Speaker 4: I was sweating. You got me together, and I had

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Speaker 4: It was a religious experience, and it reminded me of

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Speaker 4: when I first moved to New York in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 4: three and I used to go to Webster Hall and

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Speaker 4: just dance all night.

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Speaker 1: I didn't care about boys.

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Speaker 4: I put my look together and I went out and

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Speaker 4: I danced, and I had a spiritual experience in awakening

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Speaker 4: the spirit the Holy ghat got me, you know, on

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Speaker 4: the dance floor, and that is what you give.

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Speaker 1: And that is so I don't and you probably don't

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Speaker 1: know how you do it. You just do it. And

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Speaker 1: I guess you're channeling.

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Speaker 4: I think when you say that you're challenging the energy

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Speaker 4: of the universe, it's just you let it come through you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean there's lots of just to go back

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Speaker 2: to the beginning of what you said that I've never

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Speaker 2: changed to who I was, I think, and maybe you

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Speaker 2: can relate to this when you are marginalized. Within the marginalization,

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Speaker 2: I've always felt invisible, and one of the things that

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Speaker 2: I said to myself a long time ago, since I'm invisible,

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Speaker 2: it's actually given me a freedom to just really boo myself.

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Speaker 2: And because if I can't fit into your narrative, then

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Speaker 2: I might as well just be who I am. And

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Speaker 2: I realized, no matter how successful that I became or

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Speaker 2: what visibility that I came, that I had to be

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Speaker 2: okay with me.

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Speaker 3: I had to validate me.

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Speaker 2: I had to be the one that gave me permission

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Speaker 2: to do the things that I wanted to do. And

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Speaker 2: you know how it was back in the day in

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Speaker 2: New York girl, the streets of New York being fired

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Speaker 2: and hired and fired and hired and fired out.

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Speaker 3: I didn't like you didn't know if you're going to

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Speaker 3: be able to pay your rent or eat or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And I just realized that gave me a tenacity to

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Speaker 2: just be the most authentic person that I can be.

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Speaker 2: And I never expected, you know, when you said to me,

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Speaker 2: have I processed this? No because you know, as we

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Speaker 2: both transitioned in on the streets of New York. My

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Speaker 2: success in life is that I survived, that I'm healthy,

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Speaker 2: that I'm here, that I'm thriving, that I have gotten

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Speaker 2: to a place where I can have healthy relationships with

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Speaker 2: the people and with myself. And one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I realized, no matter what I achieved in my life,

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Speaker 2: I survived as a black trans woman and I never

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Speaker 2: had to do anything outside of my art, and that,

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Speaker 2: to me is my success.

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Speaker 3: Girl.

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Speaker 2: You and I both know what it took to just

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Speaker 2: get through the day in New York City and get

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Speaker 2: home in one piece. And so the fact that we're

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Speaker 2: here and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's momentous, you know what I mean, it really is.

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Speaker 2: It's so deep. It's so deep, and it's so hard

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Speaker 2: to explain this to people. So I haven't process that.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: There's been so many things going on. I relocated to London.

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Speaker 2: I just had an album released besides my own, so

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Speaker 2: I've been turning that and it's non stop turning. I

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Speaker 2: just came off of an Australian tour, so it's really

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Speaker 2: been one thing after the next. I'm working on my

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Speaker 2: next album. I have a fashion collection with com de garsoon.

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Speaker 2: So I haven't had a chance to sit down and say, bitch,

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Speaker 2: what have you done? It's more like bitch on to

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Speaker 2: the next. And so what I do process is I

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Speaker 2: live in gratitude. I am so grateful that I get

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Speaker 2: to get up every day and choose what my day

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Speaker 2: looks like. That to me is what propels me. You know,

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Speaker 2: I always love the thing that you said, and I

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Speaker 2: use it and I stole it from you. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to be a role model. I want to be

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Speaker 2: a role possibility. And that for me, hits so deep

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Speaker 2: and so differently.

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Speaker 1: It's a possibility model, actually possibility.

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Speaker 2: Model, possibility model. And so I took that and I said,

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Speaker 2: be the thing you wish to see in the world.

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Speaker 4: Oh, let's take it all the way back to the

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Speaker 4: beginning for you and being being a teenager in Chicago

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Speaker 4: and going to the clubs with there are Chicago clubs.

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Speaker 4: I knew you went to a lot of different clubs

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Speaker 4: and got a lot of different influences, which is so fasantastic.

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Speaker 4: But was there one club or two clubs in Chicago

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Speaker 4: that really like this is what shaped me. This was

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Speaker 4: the or this is just a moment that I'm so

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Speaker 4: happy I was there for.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: So, if we want to go back to the beginning,

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Speaker 2: my parents were music lovers, and so I got my

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Speaker 2: first musical education from their record collection. They used to

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Speaker 2: have basement parties and my parents loved to party, and

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Speaker 2: I think I inherited that gene from them. So my

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Speaker 2: musical education first started with a lot of music from

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Speaker 2: the seventies, the OJ's Donna Summer.

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Speaker 4: My mother had OJ's and four Tops tapes too, honey,

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Speaker 4: So yes, me too.

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Speaker 2: So every Friday night was family night, and we would

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Speaker 2: get pizza and dance together and play music together. And

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Speaker 2: you know, my mother said, when I was a baby,

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Speaker 2: whenever we would come in the house, she said, the

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Speaker 2: first thing that I would want to do is I

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Speaker 2: want to play records. I want to play records. So

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Speaker 2: I literally think that, and I say this with all humility,

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Speaker 2: that I was born to do this. Clearly, this was

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Speaker 2: my purpose in life. And so that was the beginning

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Speaker 2: of my musical education. And as Chicago being the birthplace

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Speaker 2: of house music, a lot of early house music parties

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Speaker 2: were done in high school auditoriums, Catholic high school auditoriums.

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Speaker 2: And I went to a Catholic high school, and so

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Speaker 2: we used to have they used to have a lot

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Speaker 2: of parties in the gymnasium. And that's where I first

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Speaker 2: heard disco records. And because house music is really Frankie

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Speaker 2: says this, you know, house music is disco's revenge because

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Speaker 2: there was a there was a backlash against disco. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you know about the Chomiskey Park and yeah, so.

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Speaker 1: If any people who don't know, we should tell people

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Speaker 1: who don't know. Do you want to tell them?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: So there was in Chicago. There was a disc jockey

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Speaker 2: called Steve gall and what was happening. Disco was becoming

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Speaker 2: very commercial.

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Speaker 1: It's very commercial. It was super mainstream. It was Maine,

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Speaker 1: it was yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So during a baseball game Komiski Park, he did

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Speaker 2: a disco demolition and where he had fans bring in

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Speaker 2: that disco records and blow up their disco records. But

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Speaker 2: the thing that most people don't know about the mainstream

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Speaker 2: or let's just put it, white people didn't realize they

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Speaker 2: weren't grabbing disco records. They were grabbing r and B records,

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Speaker 2: anything that had to do with black music. They related

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Speaker 2: to disco, and as you know, Chicago is an extremely

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Speaker 2: racist town, and so basically this was a form of

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Speaker 2: racism and homophobia. And so there was this big disco

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Speaker 2: demolition and then then it turned into this big vandalism

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Speaker 2: and everything, and so there was this big backlash and

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Speaker 2: so then disco became uncool and unpopular, and then all

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Speaker 2: of a sudden, over night it was out.

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Speaker 3: But it never was.

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Speaker 2: Out with black people, and it was never out with

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Speaker 2: black queer people, and it just went underground and then

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Speaker 2: it resurfaced. And this was late seventies and then the

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Speaker 2: early eighties, technologies synthesized of drum machines became accessible and

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Speaker 2: that's where the bridge happened, and house music was born

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Speaker 2: from disco into this early synthpop and early drum machines.

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Speaker 3: And all of that.

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Speaker 2: And so I just happened to be born at a

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Speaker 2: time and place at the beginning of a subculture and

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Speaker 2: a cultural movement that we now know is house music

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Speaker 2: that went on to change the world. But it was

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Speaker 2: predominantly played in black and Latin gay clubs.

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Speaker 4: Can we just pause there, just or a second because

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Speaker 4: when I was thinking about this earlier, I thought about

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Speaker 4: when Renaissance came out last year and how a lot

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Speaker 4: of Beyonce's fans, who like are hip hop heads and

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Speaker 4: or a lot of her black fans, were like, this

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Speaker 4: dance music is white, this dance music is gay, right,

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Speaker 4: and not understanding that this music is black music, right.

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Speaker 4: So what I think has been so beautiful about this

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Speaker 4: Renaissance moment is that I think people have become educated

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Speaker 4: to know and understand that dance music has always been

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Speaker 4: black music, and honestly, any pop music in the world

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Speaker 4: all comes from black music.

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Speaker 3: Let's get it correct, Henny.

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Speaker 2: If it's not classical from Europe, it's anything American based

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Speaker 2: comes from black music.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, So like history repeats right, the homophobia and

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Speaker 4: racism that had you know, SCO sucks, burn these records.

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Speaker 4: What's happening as Beyonce, this like huge, you know, global

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Speaker 4: black artist comes out with a tribute to dance music

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Speaker 4: and to queer culture, and people are kind of having

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Speaker 4: a similar reaction.

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Speaker 2: This is also a part of my work because you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is a whole other podcast, but I

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Speaker 2: often talk about how house music has been colonized and corporatized,

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Speaker 2: and how it's been so far removed from the people

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Speaker 2: that have created it that black people don't even know

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Speaker 2: the house music is black music.

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Speaker 1: Now and that's that's a shame.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I always that's why I constantly talk about

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Speaker 2: the roots of this culture, the roots of this music.

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Speaker 2: It's black cord music. It came from black core culture.

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Speaker 2: It was spaces for black people to celebrate themselves. And

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Speaker 2: also what I also talk about is house music was

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Speaker 2: born at the same time as the AIDS epidemic happened.

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Speaker 3: So house music.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of intersectionality with AIDS, with gayness,

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Speaker 2: with blackness, and having safe spaces for people to get

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Speaker 2: educated about medical care, for them to find love, for

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Speaker 2: them to feel free to be less tigmatized. So for me,

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Speaker 2: it's very very important to keep this conversation going otherwise

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Speaker 2: it's going to be lost. So getting back to thank you, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So getting back to that, my early roots of this

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Speaker 2: music stems from the fact that I was exposed to

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Speaker 2: this culture very early.

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Speaker 3: And back in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: You did your homework because there were so many talent

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Speaker 2: and DJs that we had to know the source of

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Speaker 2: the music that we were playing. So not only did

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Speaker 2: I get an education in music, but I also got

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Speaker 2: an education and the culture and the people who birth

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Speaker 2: this multi billion dollar industry that we now call dance music.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I love. I love that.

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Speaker 4: You just reminded me of Andrelian Tell And he's like,

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Speaker 4: I did my homework. I knew, I knew this reference,

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Speaker 4: I knew where this came from. And it's so and

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Speaker 4: I love too. You know you've talked about publicly when

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Speaker 4: Beyonce's team pasch you to produce some tracks for her,

377
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,760
Speaker 4: that you sent her things to read, and you sent

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Speaker 4: her Paris is Great so she could understand the history

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Speaker 4: and the culture that she was delving into. Yeah, she

380
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Speaker 4: embarked on this. Do you want to talk a little

381
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Speaker 4: bit about that?

382
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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I was very humbled when her team

383
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Speaker 2: approached me. They said they wanted to go to the

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Speaker 2: source of Chicago house music. And I was very humbled

385
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Speaker 2: because the source for me where people like Frankie Knuckles

386
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Speaker 2: and Ron Hardy and Derek Carter. So the fact that

387
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Speaker 2: I was considered among those people was very humbling for me.

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Speaker 4: But I think that's could you stay true to yourself,

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Speaker 4: That's could you stay true to you, yeah right, Like.

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Speaker 3: I always love this quote, you might as well be

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Speaker 3: yourself because everybody else is taken.

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Speaker 1: Amen.

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Speaker 2: So but what I wanted to do is because you

394
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Speaker 2: know how the children are, honey, if you don't come correct,

395
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Speaker 2: they're going to come for you. And she has such

396
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Speaker 2: a huge, huge gay following, black gay following trans following

397
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Speaker 2: that I really wanted her to get it correct. And

398
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Speaker 2: she did such an amazing job of dissecting and digesting

399
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Speaker 2: and understanding what she was getting into. And I have

400
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Speaker 2: so much respect and admiration for the fact that she

401
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Speaker 2: did her homework.

402
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Speaker 3: And it comes through in the music.

403
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Speaker 2: But I sent her dissertations on Parison's burning and records

404
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,399
Speaker 2: that were played in the clubs in New York, and

405
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,040
Speaker 2: records that were played and the clubs in Chicago, because

406
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Speaker 2: unless you were there, you would not know. And so

407
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Speaker 2: I think that was what I wanted her to understand,

408
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 2: because there would have been no way for her to

409
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Speaker 2: connect the dots unless she had the source material. So

410
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:37,520
Speaker 2: it was very important for me, like you need to

411
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:41,040
Speaker 2: see this, you need to see County, which doctor, what

412
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: they were playing at Websas Hall, doing Runway Sound Factory,

413
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Speaker 2: These were the classics of sound Factory, you know, because

414
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Speaker 2: I think the form of reference now is the poses

415
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 2: and all of these things, which is really great, but

416
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Speaker 2: those are built on legacies that have gone before Paris

417
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Speaker 2: is burning. Let's talk about what went before that. So

418
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Speaker 2: the Harlem Balls, you know, the Queen. There's a legacy

419
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Speaker 2: to our culture that has been erased. And so for me,

420
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Speaker 2: let's go before Paris is burning. The girls have been

421
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Speaker 2: around for forever. Let's talk about the pin ups and

422
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 2: Ebony and Jet magazine. The girls have been here.

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Speaker 3: You know.

424
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Speaker 4: Agita Wilson was a Jet Beauty of the Week and

425
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Speaker 4: they did not know that she was transcending at all.

426
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Speaker 4: And the body now we kind of can smook the

427
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 4: body a little bit, like yeah, silicone and we can

428
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Speaker 4: bat a little bit.

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Speaker 1: They didn't know then, Oh girl, they didn't know.

430
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Speaker 2: So there's a legacy of our culture and our music

431
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 2: and that I just really wanted her to understand or

432
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 2: just even come into contact so she could make the

433
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 2: best record that she could be as a love letters

434
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Speaker 2: to black music and which encompassed disco and house and gospel.

435
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Speaker 2: And I mean, this record for me is not just

436
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 2: a dance record. It just it touches on all the

437
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,439
Speaker 2: sort of black music that is body and spiritual music,

438
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Speaker 2: church girls.

439
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Speaker 1: You know, that's so much of what you do when

440
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 1: you DJ. Yeah, I got to take a teen c

441
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: break here, I'll be fast. Okay, we're back. So you're

442
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: in Chicago.

443
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,880
Speaker 4: It's you know, the beginning of house music. Was there

444
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 4: a moment? Was there a song?

445
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 3: I knew you?

446
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 4: You've been collecting records since this is Merge his birth.

447
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 1: Was there a moment in Chicago? What was the club

448
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: for you or the space?

449
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I would probably have to say when I

450
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: was about thirteen or fourteen years old, there was a

451
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: skating rink, because I used to have parties and skating rinks,

452
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,479
Speaker 2: and I remember, I don't remember the song, but I

453
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 2: remember dancing and getting so lost in the music that

454
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:58,399
Speaker 2: I had an out of body experience. I could literally

455
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 2: see myself dancing and it were so transcendental that I

456
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: said to myself, this is what I want to do

457
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 2: the rest of my life. And then as I got

458
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 2: older and started going out, I became friends with the

459
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: second wave of DJ's in Chicago house music. This is

460
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 2: the early nineties, and this was the Derek Carters and

461
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 2: Mark from Reena's The Green Velvets, and I used to

462
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: go to a lot of loft parties and underground parties.

463
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: You have to realize at that time, because everyone's like,

464
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 2: how were you going out so young?

465
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, there were juice.

466
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 2: Bars, and second of all, black spaces were not policed

467
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 2: the way their spaces are now. You know, no one

468
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 2: gave a shit. No one gave a shit what black

469
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: gave people we're doing. So, you know, you had clubs

470
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,879
Speaker 2: where I could go. There was Honey, There's so many cheeks.

471
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 2: Was the trans club.

472
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 3: I went to.

473
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: Bistro one and two was an eighteen and over club.

474
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: Windy City was a gay white club that had house nights.

475
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 2: Aka's Subterrana was a club that Derek Carter used to

476
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 2: play out. I used to go hear him play. I mean,

477
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: there have been so many pivotal moments for me that

478
00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 2: it's hard to pinpoint one.

479
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 4: I just remember, the skating rink sounds powerful when you

480
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,719
Speaker 4: when you leave your body.

481
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've left my body a couple of times and

482
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 2: that was one of them. And I realized that. And

483
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 2: you have to understand, I didn't know that this was

484
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,719
Speaker 2: a career choice. This was purely. Everything I have in

485
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: my life was purely from a deep love of wanting

486
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: to be a part of something and contribute to it.

487
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: So for me, those pivotal moments were the skating rinks,

488
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 2: the underground clubs in Chicago.

489
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: That was my community.

490
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: And the thing about it was so multicultural and no

491
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: one cared about your gender expression or who you were.

492
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 2: If you were into this music, you were included.

493
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: I love that.

494
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 4: So let's let's get to New York. Let's get to

495
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 4: New York, and let's get to New York. We met

496
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 4: in New York. We won't say the year in New York, okay,

497
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,400
Speaker 4: And so what was the club when you started going

498
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 4: out in New York?

499
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: Do you remember where you went out?

500
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 3: Oh?

501
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: My god, exciting for you.

502
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 2: We had the best schooling in New York from the

503
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,239
Speaker 2: clubs there, the best schooling. It was diverse, you know.

504
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 2: We had Eschoolito where the girls went to perform. We

505
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: had sound Factory, we had Twilo, we had Saved.

506
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 3: There was so much to you those clubs.

507
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:13,719
Speaker 4: When I cause, I think if I was thinking about that,

508
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 4: I was. I was watching interview of yours and you

509
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 4: were talking about your favorite disco song ever, which is

510
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 4: Doctor Love. Yes, and then it made me think about

511
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 4: first Choice and let no Man Put Asunder and that Yes,

512
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 4: that is my that's my ship. And there was a remix,

513
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 4: there was a remake Don't You Want Them All? Yeah,

514
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 4: don't you don't Let's.

515
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 2: Go, Let's go by fast Daddy, don't don't you Let's go,

516
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: Let's go? Yes, yes, yes, was that was.

517
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: That took me through. That was a moment for me. Yeah.

518
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 1: I think at Webster Hall like that was.

519
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 4: So I was just thinking about like the musical influences

520
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 4: in house and like I would love to kind of

521
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 4: go back to some of those influences.

522
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

523
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: So the person that was my entree into New York

524
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: was Johnson, Yes, yes, yes, Gant Johnson was the friend

525
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 2: of a roommate of Derek Carter and I was moving

526
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 2: and he's sort of like, oh, you should stay with

527
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: me when you come to New York. And at that

528
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: time he was djaying. He was one of the big

529
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: East Village DJs. You know, at that time there was

530
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,479
Speaker 2: the worst village in the East Villagion.

531
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 4: So oh yes, and I was then East Village girl.

532
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 4: I was the East Villish girl when I first moved.

533
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: I got I was in East Village, Queen too, so

534
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: when I got to New York, he sort of introduced

535
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: me in. And like you said, I was a club

536
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: dancer before and so Lady Bunny saw me dancing, and

537
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 2: then I became a week stock dancer and that's how

538
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 2: I met everyone.

539
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 3: And I think the.

540
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 2: Club that really turned me out in New York was Twiloh.

541
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 1: Yes, I forget the years of Twilo.

542
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 4: I went to Twilo back in the day and I

543
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 4: believe Nannylia was the resident DJ.

544
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god. Wow, what a what a moment.

545
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 3: What a moment.

546
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 4: Yes, grow Twilo. I forget what part of town was

547
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 4: that in Chelsea Twilo.

548
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: The original spot for Twiler was Sound Factory five three

549
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: one was twenty seventh Street, twenty seventh between tenth and eleventh.

550
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 4: Wow, that was just And I know Danny was a

551
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 4: major influence for you as DJ to be right to

552
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 4: say he was a mentor of sorts.

553
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: Yes, Derek Carter and Danny Tinegilie are my biggest mentors

554
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: and influences as of how I expressed my craft.

555
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 4: Let's talk about Twilight with Twilo. What was how would

556
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 4: you describe the vibe because the kids want to know.

557
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 4: How would you describe the energy and the vibe at

558
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 4: Twilo at that time? And I think I'm thinking early

559
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 4: nineties was Twiler, maybe mid nineties it.

560
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,119
Speaker 3: Was mid nineties to two thousand.

561
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: Twilo was the epitome of a legacy of historic clubs

562
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 2: in New York City. If we start from David Mancuso's

563
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: the Loft, Lackysiano, the Gallery, Larry Levan, the Paradise Garage,

564
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,439
Speaker 2: Junior Basquez, the Sound Factory, then it goes to Twilo.

565
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: Frankie Knuckles was the original resident DJs before Danny. It

566
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: was like going into another world and one of the

567
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: things that I loved about that time.

568
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: So I actually I would love to an accent. You

569
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: just gave us like this major history right now, like

570
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: you really did, and I kind of want to slow

571
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: it down. Can you can you talk about the thread

572
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: from the Loft to Paradise Garage to what would you

573
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: say is that link between all those clubs and that tradition.

574
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: It's church, It's a tempo god. You know.

575
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: Clubs for me are places of worship, celebration, sexual expression,

576
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 2: music release. It removes and strips all hierarchies of society.

577
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: It does matter your religion, your socioeconomic status, your gender.

578
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: Expression is the one place where you can go and

579
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: truly be who you are. And music is the backbone

580
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: of humanity, of universal energy, of love, of expression. And

581
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: I think when you think about these temples in New

582
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 2: York City, it was the mecca. You know, these clubs,

583
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: those were the blueprints to what we know as clubbing today.

584
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: Ministry of Sound in London was based on Sound Factory.

585
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 2: Some of the biggest clubs in the world are based

586
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: on the templates and the roots of club culture in

587
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 2: New York City.

588
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: Amen. Amen, And I think it's for me it's important

589
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: to note.

590
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 4: And in an interview I saw of yours, you talked

591
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 4: about how everyone partied together yea.

592
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: In the nineties.

593
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 4: This is what I loved about going out in the

594
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 4: nineties is that everybody party together, like and literally like

595
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 4: you know, either were moments when Leonardo DiCaprio was like

596
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 4: two feet away or lea As everybody was just together.

597
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 4: You know, we were all in the same section and

598
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 4: it was just everybody was dancing and partying together.

599
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: It wasn't this gay, straight hierarchy.

600
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 4: Bottle service whatever thing, and that was so magical, and

601
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 4: I just that's what That's one of the things I

602
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 4: loved about nightlife in New York is that you could

603
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 4: go out and it was it felt.

604
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know.

605
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 4: How democratized it was, because you couldn't get in if

606
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 4: you didn't have a look in certain places, or you

607
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 4: had to sell.

608
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: Can I just back up my moment? Can I just think?

609
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: Please?

610
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 2: This is what I tell people all the time, because

611
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: people say to me, like I said, girl, you could

612
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: not get in the club unless you had a look,

613
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: or you had a fierce repartee or like or you

614
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: just had to have something. You had to contribute to

615
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 2: the party instead of just buying a ticket, and you

616
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 2: could afford to be in the party. It didn't matter

617
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 2: how much money you made. That came later with gentrification

618
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: and Juliani and bottles in the meatpacking district and all

619
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: that crap. But before that, honey, you had to contribute

620
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: to be invited into the party.

621
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 4: The first time I came to New York, and I

622
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 4: was at Indiana University and I came to audition for

623
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 4: a dancy to Harlem actually, and I was staying up

624
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 4: in Bronxville, and then I went down to the club

625
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 4: and I had my look that I'd gotten from the

626
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 4: Salvation Army. I was in my leperprint faith and I

627
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 4: went to Limelight and they were and the people I

628
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 4: was staying with they were like, people don't get into Limelight.

629
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 4: I was just like, well, let's see what happens.

630
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: Girl. I walked right up.

631
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 4: They looked me up and down and opened the velvet

632
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 4: ropes and I went right in.

633
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,239
Speaker 3: Girl. Yeah, it was.

634
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 4: It was amazing, especially coming from being bullied and being

635
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 4: an outcast and being like but that's.

636
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 2: What New York was, you know. New York was a

637
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 2: place for misfits. And so you know, it's so funny

638
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: because you know people when you say, oh, I'm and

639
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 2: I coming up this, I'm like, girl, back in New York,

640
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: you had to have something to contribute for kids to

641
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 2: see you. And I still live by that, like that's

642
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: very important to me to contribute instead of just consume.

643
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: Absolutely.

644
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 4: So there's you dancing, you know, being a dancer. There's

645
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 4: you buying records and collecting records, and then I remember

646
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 4: all of a sudden, you were DJing and people were like, oh,

647
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 4: she's turning it, you know, like that was the talk,

648
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 4: you know when oh Honey's DJing, now, oh she's fears,

649
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 4: Oh she's getting the party.

650
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: Start, you know what I mean. So how did that

651
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: transition happen to DJing?

652
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: Well, so it was born out of necessity not hearing

653
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: music the way I wanted to hear it express And

654
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: you know, I'll give you a great example. In New York,

655
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 2: there was all this separation in music. You went to

656
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: Shelter if you wanted to hear more soulful things. You

657
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 2: went to Twilight to hear more tribal stuff. You went

658
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 2: to Kefa con Relationship for more tribal house, you went

659
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: to this Save the Robots for more techno. And we

660
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 2: didn't have this separate genres and clubs.

661
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: In Chicago. It all went together.

662
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: So I thought, I have all these workers, why did

663
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 2: I play the way I heard it in Chicago? And

664
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 2: you know, it was great that I got to go

665
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: to all these different environments, but I thought, why not

666
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: just do it the way I had experienced it? So

667
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 2: I just started DJing in that way. And I started

668
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: at a little club on Elder Street called Bob and

669
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: made no money. I basically dj for drinks and my

670
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: friends had. My friend Ted Patterson came and heard me play,

671
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 2: and he asked me to come dj his birthday party,

672
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: which was held at King.

673
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 3: I don't know if you remember King.

674
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: I remember King, Yes.

675
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 2: So I DJ'ed at King and they thought I was

676
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: really great. And it went from once every other month

677
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: to once a month to once every two weeks to

678
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: having a residency.

679
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 3: And that was the beginning of me DJing in New York.

680
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 4: I love that and I feel like immediately, I don't

681
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 4: know how it was just from the outside, just the

682
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 4: talk there was there was. I just remember Rumlings, Honey's DJing,

683
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 4: Honey's turning it, and I just remember I, you know,

684
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 4: I love hearing Kevin Beyonce's album because you know I

685
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 4: worked with Kevin.

686
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I remember her answer.

687
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 4: I was the second country I was after this language, Honey,

688
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 4: you need to just look it up because we just

689
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 4: need to talk the way we need to talk to

690
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 4: the audience out there, right. I was the second country

691
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 4: after Naomi Kause she retired and Kevin had auditions and

692
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 4: I auditioned and I and so it was actually I

693
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 4: was working with Kevin when his first album, Box of

694
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 4: chocolates came out, and I just remember Kevin. He was

695
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 4: kind of being shady about another person who had just

696
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: started djaying, but was saying they should do it, like, honey,

697
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 4: keep it one hundred.

698
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: The girls do not play when it comes to the beats.

699
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: If you are not, I always say, honey. The best

700
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 2: lesson that I ever got DJing is when Danny Kribvett

701
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 2: asked me to DJ in the basement of seven eight Sessions,

702
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,239
Speaker 2: and I say, you are not a DJ until you

703
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 2: have DJ to a room of black coins standing there

704
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 2: with their arms folded looking at you, and said, I'm

705
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: waiting for you to turn them out. And those girls

706
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: are unforgiving. So one of the things that I said,

707
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 2: you are not a DJ. And so you've played to

708
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 2: the children in New York because if you do not turn.

709
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,359
Speaker 3: Them, you're out work, You're out.

710
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 2: They don't give you a second chance, Like oh, I'm

711
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: like what, No, the girls don't play. New York is

712
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 2: a great schooling And it's really true. If you can

713
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,760
Speaker 2: make it in New York, you can make it anywhere

714
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: because the kids, and it's not about shit. They love

715
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: the culture and the music so much and they respect it.

716
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 2: You can't play with their time and you can't play

717
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: with their ears, so you have to bring it.

718
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 3: And it's the best schooling I ever.

719
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: Got, absolutely can we.

720
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 4: One of the things I love about you is your

721
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 4: your relationship specifically to artists like Grace Jones, Basquach and

722
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 4: the relationship between art, fashion and music and avant garde.

723
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: And I love that. I mean, you have a fashion

724
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: line that when we look at your line, if I

725
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: don't know if their prints from Herring and Basque Yacht

726
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: are disinspired by.

727
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: Oh no, Darling, it's the source I work with the foundations,

728
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 2: it's the actual artists work that I reinterpret through clothing. So, honey,

729
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 2: fucking Degion is the clothing line that I have with

730
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: come to Garsona, and basically I used clothing to communicate

731
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 2: culture and self culture, core culture, Black culture, and artists

732
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 2: and music and the intersectionality between art, music and culture

733
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: because night clubs were those incubators of all of those things.

734
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 3: That I love.

735
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: So for me, I try to keep these conversations as AGREEO.

736
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: If you don't know what agrio is, it's Black vernacular

737
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 2: and it's basically a guio is an African storyteller. So basically,

738
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: I'm a storyteller. I've anointed myself an ambassador of black

739
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:38,879
Speaker 2: queer art.

740
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: I love it.

741
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 4: What is so beautiful about that, too, is that in

742
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 4: the nineties, specifically in the club scene, it was about

743
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 4: the music, but it was about the look.

744
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 1: It was about the fashion everything.

745
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 4: And the kids were bringing looks, they were designing their

746
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 4: own things and mood Laire and Goutia, so artists were

747
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 4: there to absorb and to get ideas right about fashion.

748
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 4: So I love that you are now designing fashion, but

749
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 4: with this reverence for art and this connection. So you've

750
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 4: been DJing fashion shows, creating playlists for fashion shows for

751
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 4: many years. Is that how the connection to come to

752
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 4: Garson happened.

753
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 2: The connection to come Toda Garson happened when I dj

754
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: the met Gala after party for the Punk Exhibition at

755
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, and I met Adrian Jeoffy there and I

756
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 2: approached him because I'm a firm believer and no one's

757
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: going to choose you. You have to choose yourself, and

758
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 2: when you operate from a place of power, I just

759
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,800
Speaker 2: ask for what I want. Sometimes people think it's this

760
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: grand thing. It's like, hey, listen, I have this idea

761
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: about doing the line that males music, queshion and art

762
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 2: and subculture and core culture. And I talked to him

763
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: about it and he's like, oh, let's have a minting

764
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: about it. He came to Berlin. I showed him what

765
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: I was thinking about doing, and he was into it.

766
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: And that's how it started. We're now four years almost

767
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 2: this year be four years actual work October twenty three.

768
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: It started in October twenty nineteen, and I have been

769
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 2: able to work with artists that I love and admire.

770
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: And the next step now is to talk more about

771
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: trans culture and trans artists and connect those dots because

772
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 2: quiet as it's kept, the body that is being celebrated

773
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: in culture now is a transsex worker body. The vernacular

774
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: that we use comes from trans culture and a black

775
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: gay vernacular.

776
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: That came up actually that topic.

777
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 4: I think it was Young Miami has a lyric, some

778
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 4: rapper has a lyric I want to look pretty like

779
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,680
Speaker 4: the transgenders. And this YouTube named Arman Wiggins had a conversation.

780
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 4: He was like, the trans aesthetic is like for certain

781
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 4: influencers has become a thing, and it was very controversial.

782
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 4: People called it and an they weren't having it. And

783
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 4: I think the way to frame it is like the

784
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 4: surgery aesthetic. And I think specifically the way I would

785
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: have framed it is to talk about I mean, I

786
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 4: think it's the BBL culture, right, trans girls. Trans girls

787
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 4: since the nineteen sixties had been using loose silicone to

788
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 4: inject into their hips and breast to give them curves, right,

789
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 4: and when SIS women are injecting in loose silicone, now,

790
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 4: this is something that trans women have been doing since

791
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 4: the nineteen sixties, so that with that historical perspective, we

792
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 4: can have that conversation.

793
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 3: Right. Well, I mean, for me, this is how I

794
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 3: like to frame it.

795
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, trans women have done these silicone interventions to

796
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 2: feminize their bodies, but you know, SIS women have done

797
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 2: surgery to feminize their bodies too, absolutely. But what happened

798
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: is that stripper culture became mainstream and the girls, the

799
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: strippers started to you know, because trans sex workers had

800
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 2: to be hyperfeminized for clients, you had to almost become

801
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 2: a cartoon of femininity. And so then the strip culture

802
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 2: started to see what the trans girls were doing.

803
00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 4: They would go, specifically in Atlanta, the clubs where the.

804
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: Trans girls are working are like, how are you getting

805
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: this body? And then the strippers started going to the

806
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: same people who were doing the bodies of the trans girls.

807
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 3: Exactly. That's the tea. That's the tea.

808
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: So you know, let's really get to why and where

809
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 2: it came from. And yet again, it's I find it

810
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 2: so ironic that there's so much violence against trans women

811
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 2: when we're actually setting a lot of beauty standards and culture.

812
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: Yeah.

813
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, it's that time again.

814
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:38,720
Speaker 1: We'll be right back. We are back.

815
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 4: There's this moment you said, the past, present, and future

816
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 4: exist on the same plane. They are here for you

817
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 4: to take. Yes, do you remember you said that in

818
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 4: an interview.

819
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 3: I love that.

820
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 4: It's like you're the quantum theory kind of kind of

821
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 4: situation and I live for that.

822
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 3: Physics.

823
00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's physics.

824
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 4: But what's great about that you and the work that

825
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 4: you do is that they're all the influences that you have.

826
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 4: And you talk about yourself as sort of a jazz musician,

827
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 4: that you don't plan your sets and that you let

828
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 4: what kind of drops in from the universe, and when

829
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 4: you are in tune with the universe, then there's a

830
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 4: different sphere, a quantum sphere that you can operate on.

831
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 4: Is that kind of what you're talking about or means.

832
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, So you know, I really think this

833
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: constant newness is really just capitalism. You know, we're constantly

834
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: having to be sold the emperor's new clothes even though

835
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 2: nothing new exists. It's just how you reframe everything. And

836
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: so in physics, there is no past, present of future.

837
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 2: There's just now. And if we're talking about something from

838
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: the past, it's still present because we're talking about it now.

839
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 2: And I just feel just because something existed before, if

840
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: there is something we haven't explored in a critical theory way,

841
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 2: why not bring that back? Why not reintroduce that. We

842
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: don't throw something away just because it's not in vogue,

843
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: you know. And a lot of my work is based

844
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: on all the people that have died from AIDS. There's

845
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: so much that was lost two generations of the most

846
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 2: highly creative people and the audience that appreciated that art.

847
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: And so for me, I look at that time, it's like,

848
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: what did we miss? What didn't we see? Because I

849
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,359
Speaker 2: also love this quote in physics, just because we don't

850
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 2: see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So for me,

851
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: that's A lot of my work is based on and

852
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: when I DJ it's I'm not there. It's literally I'm

853
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: a vessel for the universe to express itself. And I

854
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 2: just feel that way in every creative area, and everything.

855
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 3: Is here for the taking.

856
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: You know, we all are on borrowed time, and everything

857
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,919
Speaker 2: that is in this planet, regardless if it was two

858
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 2: thousand years ago or twenty minutes from now, is for

859
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 2: us to borrow, digest, appreciate change. I just look at

860
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 2: life in the very different way in that respect.

861
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 4: I love that I remember we I think with when

862
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 4: Pyramid closed, you did a post on Instagram and I

863
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 4: think I DMed you about it and it was like

864
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 4: it was one of those like when CBGB's closed, it's

865
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 4: like damn, you know, it was one of those like

866
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 4: New York is just done.

867
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I mean, things change.

868
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 4: And I love that you always talk about like let's

869
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 4: not get stuck in the past, like let's be because

870
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 4: there's lovely things about being who we are right now

871
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 4: that this was not possible twenty thirty years ago.

872
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: So it's wonderful to be us now.

873
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 4: But that New York of yesteryear, of this creativity, of

874
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 4: this art of all these different cultures and people meshing

875
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 4: together in clubs, in nightclubs and in art galleries, and

876
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 4: those things mean something to people. That meant something to me,

877
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 4: And I think that, like, there were so many moments

878
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 4: that you've created on the dance.

879
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: Floor for people that they take with them, that they remember.

880
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 4: I've had those moments with you as a DJ, and

881
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 4: those it becomes sacred, you know, and it's how you

882
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 4: live your life in a way.

883
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 2: I don't look at the past in an nostalgic way.

884
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 2: I look in the past in a critical way. What

885
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 2: can I learn from that time? What can I learn

886
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: from those teachers, those mentors, those shamans, that energy, you know,

887
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: So when you talked earlier about when I started DJing,

888
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: there's an energy shift. That's what I consider myself a

889
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: vibe shifter. But also I'm channeling all of the ancestors

890
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,320
Speaker 2: that have gone before me, and all of the teachers

891
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: and the mentors from fashion and art and music. We're

892
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: here to share this life experience together and to learn

893
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 2: from each other and to grow and expand. So I

894
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: can learn something from the highest artists in the world,

895
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: just as much as I can learn from a sex

896
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: worker from Albuquerque. I don't have this hierarchy when it

897
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 2: comes to art. Who can all learn from each other

898
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 2: and share?

899
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I want to talk about because in an

900
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 1: interview you talked about when you discovered Grace Jones and

901
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: how it this moment for you. You had never really

902
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: seen this black avant garde artist before.

903
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 4: And I know that you met Grace Jones twicehop.

904
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: Yes, when she's getting your haircut in the middle of that.

905
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 4: Can you tell us about that meeting with Grace Jones

906
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 4: because she's such a huge influence for you.

907
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: Well, it was the middle of the night and my

908
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 2: friend was like, you should come to the barbershop right

909
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 2: now because his partner at the time was cutting Grace's hair.

910
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: And I was literally in bed and I was like

911
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 2: why it is like, trust me, come now. I get

912
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 2: there and Grace's in the chair getting her haircut and

913
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 2: I had to come to Jesus moment. I literally was like,

914
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 2: it was so surreal that I got this close to

915
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 2: the source of everything for me.

916
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 3: And she was just maybe because she was amongst friends,

917
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 3: but there was no guard.

918
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 2: She was just really funny and really relaxed and really cool,

919
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: and it was just I mean, I'm getting goosebumps and

920
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 2: almost wanting to tear up right now because she means

921
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 2: that much to me. But it was just really amazing

922
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 2: because everything that I've had a deep love for, I've

923
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 2: come into contact with and I've been able to manifest.

924
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 3: Being in the room or around.

925
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 2: Or being able to participate and things that I genuinely

926
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 2: have this deep spiritual connection to, and so meeting her

927
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: was just unreal. And then the second time I met

928
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 2: her is when she performed at the Hammer steam Ballroom

929
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: and I got to go backstage and it was just

930
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 2: a mind blowing and curating this lineup during her takeover

931
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 2: at south Bank Center in London, her Grace Jones mountdown

932
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 2: was another thing. And you know that's why when I

933
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: went to the Grammys and I saw you, I was

934
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: wearing custom Alaya because that was a tribute for me

935
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 2: for Grace, because she's literally changed my life in what

936
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 2: a black artist could be and for me, she was

937
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,919
Speaker 2: the first non binary.

938
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 3: Blacker than black.

939
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 2: You know, she's not a traditionally beautiful, well what society considered.

940
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: I think she's one of the most beautiful women on

941
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 2: the planet, but she doesn't fit in you know, at

942
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,280
Speaker 2: that time it was and this is with all due respect,

943
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: because it's another way. You know, she wasn't a dian

944
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 2: Or Ross. It wasn't gowns and beads and makeup and

945
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: wigs and hair. It wasn't that. You know, she had

946
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: a military cut with squared shoulders, blue black. It was asymmetrical,

947
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: it was masculine. It was like an alien and for me,

948
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 2: getting close to this sort of universal truth where we're

949
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 2: stripped away of all the colonized ways of thinking about everything.

950
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: And she never had a problem with that.

951
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 4: She always seemed to understand that she was amazing. And

952
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 4: I think I think I think about that, and when

953
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,439
Speaker 4: I think about am I think it's because she didn't

954
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 4: grow up in the United States, so she wasn't colonized

955
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 4: in the same way that Americans are to think less

956
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 4: of ourselves if we don't fit some standard. She knew

957
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,799
Speaker 4: that she was queen, Yes, and that is just I mean,

958
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with Grace Jones. I know Nightclubbing is like

959
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 4: a huge song for you from well I guess that's

960
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 4: the name of the album Nightclubbing.

961
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it blew my mind.

962
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 2: And this is what I mean, because you know, I

963
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: had the traditional R and B jazz up bringing with

964
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 2: my family. But when I got that album and that

965
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 2: album cover, the blazer was Armani. So you see how

966
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 2: all of the intersectionality with fashion performance are music. She

967
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,319
Speaker 2: embodied all of those things to me and gave me,

968
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 2: as you like to say, role possibilities.

969
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I love that. I could talk

970
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:36,240
Speaker 1: to you forever.

971
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 4: Before my last question, what do you want to say

972
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 4: about yourself as an artist, about the world, about house music.

973
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 4: What's on your heart that you want to say? As

974
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 4: we wrap up?

975
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 2: I think what is on my heart or what is

976
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 2: in my heart when I catch feelings with myself is

977
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 2: that I always remember when I was struggling in New York,

978
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 2: all I wanted to do was to create. I wanted

979
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 2: to wake up every day and create and always have

980
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,399
Speaker 2: these four things that I used to say met may

981
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 2: participate and create, And I always just wanted to participate

982
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 2: in these spaces that I didn't see myself. You know

983
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 2: where did we see ourselves growing up Laverne. We didn't

984
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: see ourselves anywhere. All I thought I could do as

985
00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 2: a trans black woman was live at night work in nightclubs.

986
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: You know where were we in fashion? Where were we

987
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 2: in film art directors or creative directors or.

988
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 3: Owning the narrative?

989
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: All of our stories have been told through the eyes

990
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: of someone else, giving us permission to exist. And for me,

991
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 2: I want to be the author of these stories, you know,

992
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: I want to own my story. I don't need someone

993
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: else to validate me because I can validate myself. And

994
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 2: when I stopped looking outside of myself for permission to be,

995
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 2: that's when I started to flourish.

996
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 3: So if there's.

997
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: Anything that I can leave behind is to know that

998
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 2: you don't need anyone else's permission to exist.

999
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: Work. Well, that's a great way to end.

1000
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 4: But I'd like to end the podcast with the question

1001
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 4: what else is true? And this comes from my trauma

1002
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 4: resilient somatic therapy. When things are rough in the world

1003
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 4: and we're struggling, that is true, But there's always something

1004
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 4: else that's true that can get us through that resilient piece. Yes,

1005
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 4: when things are hard, what's the thing that gets you through? So,

1006
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 4: honey fucking Dijon for you today, what else is true?

1007
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 3: Oh? What else is true?

1008
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 2: Stop caring where other people think about you, because most

1009
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: people don't know what they think about themselves.

1010
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: Oh that is also true, ye work. I love you, Honey,

1011
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: thank you.

1012
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 4: There's something about particularly us black trans women who've been

1013
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 4: doing it and who've made contributions. It needs to be documented.

1014
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 4: We need to be there for each other, supporting each

1015
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 4: other on each other. And I hope you felt the

1016
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 4: love today, Oh girl, giving we don't talk. I hope

1017
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 4: you feel the love and support. I'm proud of you.

1018
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 4: I'm so proud of you, Honey.

1019
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 3: And the words of ghosts Dittoh.

1020
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 4: Honey, Dejon, I just love brilliance. What is so beautiful

1021
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 4: about Honey's story for me is that there were no spaces,

1022
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 4: you know, that existed for a black trans woman to

1023
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:42,680
Speaker 4: become an internationally renowned DJ and Grammy Award winning producer.

1024
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 4: But she made those spaces, and she made them because

1025
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 4: she was and is exceptional. She is so good at

1026
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:56,839
Speaker 4: what she does that she can't be denied. And that

1027
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 4: is what I aspire to be, so good at what

1028
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 4: I do that I can't be denied. And this is

1029
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 4: what I hope for you, that you are so good

1030
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 4: at what you do that no one can deny you,

1031
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 4: no matter where you come from, no matter your circumstances,

1032
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 4: that you can transcend, Honey Dejon. Thank you so much

1033
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 4: for listening to The Laverne Cox Show. Please rate reviews,

1034
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,839
Speaker 4: subscribe and share with everyone you know. You can find

1035
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,799
Speaker 4: me on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Laverne Cox and

1036
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 4: on Facebook at Laverne Cox for Real. Until next time,

1037
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 4: stay in the love. The Laverne Cox Show is a

1038
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 4: production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more

1039
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 4: podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

1040
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 4: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.