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Speaker 1: Hey, this is and Samantha and welcome to stuff. I

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Speaker 1: never told your production. I heart radio. And today we

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Speaker 1: were talking about a show which I have never seen, Ridgardton.

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Speaker 1: Have you watched the new season in Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I watched the first half because they split the season annoyingly,

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Speaker 2: so I had like a month break and then release

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Speaker 2: the other half. I don't know why, something with the

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Speaker 2: fact that they changed over the show runner and the

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Speaker 2: showrunner may have not handled the season very well. That's

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Speaker 2: what I'm getting from. Like me as like just a

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Speaker 2: very lightly watching and then moving on because the first

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Speaker 2: season I really did enjoy, but then I was like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 2: kind of how I do with like a lot of

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Speaker 2: dramas when it gets too like repetitive in my mind

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Speaker 2: that I'm like, eh, and I'm done because it was

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Speaker 2: new at first. But like I do love some of

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Speaker 2: the actors on there, including when I know you're about

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Speaker 2: to talk about Nicola Coughlan, who is fantastic in every

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Speaker 2: interview i've seen her do and apparently really great and

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Speaker 2: Dairy Girls, which I'm very great I.

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Speaker 3: Have not seen.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it either, but it's on my It

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Speaker 1: has long been on my watch list, and it's a

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Speaker 1: show that people tell me. They're always like, you would

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Speaker 1: love that show, and I believe it. Yeah, I am

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Speaker 1: in a strange place where I also I never watched Bridgerton,

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Speaker 1: but I just there's a lot of new content that

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Speaker 1: I have watched, like the first couple seasons of and

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Speaker 1: I love. I don't know right now, I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: need my space. Let me watch my bad horror movie

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Speaker 1: that I don't really have to invest in. Right That's

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Speaker 1: just where I am right now. I know I'll watch

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Speaker 1: it eventually, but like.

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Speaker 3: The mood, Yeah, I see you get Get the Moon.

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Speaker 2: You're like okay, because I, like I said, I did

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Speaker 2: watch the first half and I was like okay, and

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Speaker 2: then kind of quote unquote like Cliffhanger and you know

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Speaker 2: things are going to go awry. A lot of revelations

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Speaker 2: in this one. But still because the over the top.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I've just been so inundated with the content, with

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Speaker 2: people's criticisms and like predictions that I'm like, eh, I'll wait.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh gosh, I have so many thoughts about that.

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Speaker 1: I may or may not have written an essay about

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Speaker 1: how social media is really impacting our entertainment consumption because

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Speaker 1: I write essays when I'm stressed.

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Speaker 3: All right, I was like, is this being published? Okay?

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Speaker 1: This is your collection me trying to work things out.

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Speaker 1: I have a whole holder filled with essays that no

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Speaker 1: one will ever read.

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Speaker 2: Is this one of the things I have to delete?

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Speaker 2: Just think like later down the road.

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Speaker 1: It might make some people mad, but they'll move on

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Speaker 1: quickly because some social media. Sorry, that's a different topic.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know. As someone who's never interacted with

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Speaker 1: this media, I'm gonna say spoilers just in case, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know. But if you're really like I do

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Speaker 1: not want any spoilers and you don't know what happens,

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Speaker 1: maybe wait on this one. And content warning for fat phobia.

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Speaker 1: So we are a bit behind the times here. But

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Speaker 1: as I've mentioned recently, I got to go on a

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Speaker 1: trip with some friends and they were talking all about

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Speaker 1: Bridgerton and this came up. I hadn't heard about it,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, wait what, And so here we are.

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Speaker 1: So in the newest season of the Netflix show Bridgerton,

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Speaker 1: Penelope Featherington played by Nikola Cochlan and Colin Bridgerton played

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Speaker 1: by Luke Newton have sparked some romance. Their ship name

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Speaker 1: is Paulin. I guess that's how you say that the

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Speaker 1: and them getting together is something that a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks have been looking forward to. And throughout this process,

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Speaker 1: Cocklan has dealt with a lot of fat shaming and

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Speaker 1: just overall body shaming, especially when compared to Newton. From

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Speaker 1: the Independent quote. There's been a bizarre affixation on the

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Speaker 1: latter's body type Cocklan in general, ranging from a Guardian

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Speaker 1: article calling her a little bit fat and a lot

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Speaker 1: hot to downright poisonous Spectator article that stated, as if

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Speaker 1: it were fact, that Cocklan is not hot and that

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Speaker 1: the idea of a fat girl who wins the Prince

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Speaker 1: wasn't remotely plausible. I will say others have also said

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Speaker 1: she doesn't really even qualify as plus size in real life.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's kind of another territory. But basically

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Speaker 1: they're like, she still's not really plus size, and you're

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Speaker 1: making these comments.

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Speaker 2: I think more than anything, she's just shorter. She's like

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Speaker 2: a shorter person in the series. Again, I'm not gonna

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Speaker 2: vouch for the books because I have never read the books,

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Speaker 2: and we have I know many people who are die

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Speaker 2: hard for the books. We've also had criticisms, and I

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Speaker 2: got criticized for watching that first season and when we

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Speaker 2: talked about it, because there is that conversation of rape

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Speaker 2: with the male lead.

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Speaker 3: So all of.

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Speaker 2: That is very very legitimate, and I hear, y'all, we

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Speaker 2: hear you, we know this. But I think in one

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Speaker 2: of the ways that they did change and flip some

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Speaker 2: of the narrative, especially for a period piece such as this,

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Speaker 2: is having Nicola Cocklin being a main character and being

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Speaker 2: seen as a leading lady, even though people were like,

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Speaker 2: what is going on and seeing this as revolutionary, which

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Speaker 2: is again is annoying. And maybe the main fact within

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Speaker 2: the movies and the show itself, they don't reference her

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Speaker 2: body at all. That maybe I've missed some parts, maybe

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Speaker 2: it's spent a long time. I don't remember any real

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Speaker 2: fat shaming in the conversation. I don't like they were

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Speaker 2: more shaming her outfits because her mom is over the

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Speaker 2: top with the colors and everybody would like, oh, look

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Speaker 2: at them, they're wearing orange to this like everybody else

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Speaker 2: wearing light green and whites and or like. And the

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Speaker 2: mother really loved very bright neon colors, which she hates,

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Speaker 2: like the character of Penelope hates and a part of

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Speaker 2: the her like new being out trying to find a husband,

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Speaker 2: is her being able to choose her own colors and

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Speaker 2: outfits and really standing out like her welcome out. It

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Speaker 2: was her being in very beautiful Emeralds green dress. So like,

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Speaker 2: none of the shame factor has been based on her

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Speaker 2: body in the show as where you know, sometimes there's

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Speaker 2: a token and that's the center of the conversation and

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Speaker 2: the jokes and the plot. That's not been a thing.

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Speaker 2: So from the series in itself, that's not a concern.

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Speaker 2: It's literally been everybody else. And I know, like in

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Speaker 2: these conversations about this, she has outright said it kind

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Speaker 2: of ignored all of that and just being like, I know.

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Speaker 3: I've got the best breast.

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Speaker 2: It's like absolutely, yes, girl, you do amazing show them off.

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Speaker 2: But like that that's not in the show, but it's

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Speaker 2: always like constant conversation for outside of that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And it really blew up recently. That conversation

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Speaker 1: did soon after the release of the show, when activist

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Speaker 1: and author Virgie Tovar wrote a piece for Forbes titled Ridgerdton,

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Speaker 1: Are we still not ready for a mixed weight romance

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Speaker 1: on screen. Okay, so, as you can imagine, people had

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Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts, uh.

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Speaker 2: So, like what the hell like that title as if

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Speaker 2: implying like that's not a thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna bring it down. When somebody did respond

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Speaker 1: and was like, aren't we all mixed weight couples? Right?

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Speaker 2: They're all bolt gonna you were mixed weight, whether it's

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Speaker 2: one's like over the top like weightlifting, and the other

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Speaker 2: one it has like perfect slim body, like what.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And I will say I read the article and

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Speaker 1: somebody else that wasn't me said, really, what is missing here?

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Speaker 1: Was for women because it's like not a the article

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Speaker 1: is not bad and it has a lot of good points,

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Speaker 1: but the title, and that's what everybody saw and was

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Speaker 1: like what so I feel like there just could have

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Speaker 1: been better wording. Wording. So here's a quote from the article.

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Speaker 1: For some this romance is unsettling because it forces them

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Speaker 1: to consider that humans are simply not governed by tidy,

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Speaker 1: predictable rules. This romance upsets you. It says more about

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Speaker 1: how deeply you've internalized fat phobia than it says about

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Speaker 1: the bodies of the actors playing Penelopie and Colin, And

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Speaker 1: I just want to say, also, mixed weight, this is

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Speaker 1: not the first time that has been used. Really, yeah

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Speaker 1: around for a minute, and I read an article about why,

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Speaker 1: like the need for something to describe when you're in

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Speaker 1: like a pretty a major weight difference in your relationship

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Speaker 1: and that not existing yet, So I don't want to

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Speaker 1: negate that conversation. And there's a lot of argument disagreement

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Speaker 1: about that. Mixed weight was like in one of the

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Speaker 1: articles I read was like they knew it wasn't that great,

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Speaker 1: but they wanted something better and they didn't really have it.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I imagine. But why even terment?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well there's there is a lot of conversation

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Speaker 1: around it, and yeah, I mean it sounds but at

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Speaker 1: first you're like, okay, sure, sure, sure, but when you

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Speaker 1: think about it for like two seconds. Almost every popular

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Speaker 1: sitcom in recent memory has featured a bigger, usually beer

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Speaker 1: bellied man and a smaller thanner wife. Just a few

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Speaker 1: examples off the top of my head. You've got King

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Speaker 1: of Queens, you got f I'm the Guy, You've got

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Speaker 1: the Simpsons. Here's a quote from The Independent in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: It was seen as nothing but totally reasonable that larger

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Speaker 1: than life John Candy would fall in love with the slender,

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Speaker 1: ally sheety and only the lonely, while in the naughties,

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Speaker 1: Will Ferrell regularly bared his furry, untoned dad bod in

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Speaker 1: comedies that saw him bed some of the world's most

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Speaker 1: beautiful women Nicole Kidman, Christina Applegate, Eva Mendez, Rachel mcadam's

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Speaker 1: Need I Go On. Around the same time, a portly

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Speaker 1: young Jonah Hill wasn't spurned in his insulting and clumsy

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Speaker 1: advances towards Emma Stone's slim girl next Door character and

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Speaker 1: super Bad. In fact, it's part of a wider chope

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Speaker 1: that sees distinctly average looking men paired with Hollywood sirens,

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Speaker 1: this apparently being realistic while the reverse is implausible. I

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Speaker 1: think Jason Segall films in which no suspension of disbelief

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Speaker 1: is required to accept that Mili Cunas, Kristen Bell, Cameron Diaz,

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Speaker 1: and Catherine Heigel would be his romantic equal. Think Jack

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Speaker 1: Black Bagging, Shannon Sosimon, and Kate Winslet in The Holiday.

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Speaker 1: There are entire movies such as She's Out of My

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Speaker 1: League based around this very premise. Yeah, also others pointing

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Speaker 1: that we don't use mixed height or mixed hair or

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Speaker 1: right things like that.

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Speaker 2: It's such an odd conversation because again it's the perfectly

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Speaker 2: paired weighted meaning like they both weigh the same amount.

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Speaker 2: Like is that what we're saying, So there's like a

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Speaker 2: fifty pound difference that's mixed weight.

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Speaker 3: Nuh?

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Speaker 2: Like if the dude is one hundred and eighty pounds

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Speaker 2: and the girl is one hundred and twenty pounds, is

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Speaker 2: that not.

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Speaker 3: Mixed weight?

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Speaker 2: Also, if the dude is one's sixty and the woman

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Speaker 2: is once fifty five, still.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I just it plays a difference to.

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Speaker 2: This doesn't make sense. But I hear they're trying to

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Speaker 2: say like something positive been like you need a good

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Speaker 2: o your fat phobic self. I get that, but that

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Speaker 2: term is unnecessary.

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Speaker 1: I also want to say, I think this is a

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Speaker 1: salient point from the Independent. It's something we've talked about before.

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Speaker 1: But also Nicola Cocklan is beautiful, like gorgeous, like because

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Speaker 1: all of these women are like white and thin, right,

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Speaker 1: but n cochlan also beautiful. I don't think that's what

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Speaker 1: they were saying, But I just want to add that

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Speaker 1: in in case it wasn't clear.

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Speaker 2: Like the fact that she is a different weight at

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Speaker 2: standard than everybody else and still not overweight. Let's be honest,

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Speaker 2: that's enough for people to disqualify her as the lead

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Speaker 2: of anything and disqualify her of being with a good

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Speaker 2: looking dude who is also technically yes in this like

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Speaker 2: in this segment of the series, yes they are the

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Speaker 2: lead because they highlight typically within they are the lead,

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Speaker 2: but prea they were not. So even before then were

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Speaker 2: they not, you know, like how they were Like it

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Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. Why couldn't they And they have a

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Speaker 2: built up relationship and then he's like they shame him

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, but there's no implication of what reason

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Speaker 2: other than maybe like the family is being seen as

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Speaker 2: being silly or without money or had the father had

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Speaker 2: died gambling and then incurred this huge amount of debt

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Speaker 2: and they were in trouble, like they were going to

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Speaker 2: be really poor and cast out of society. Mm hm,

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Speaker 2: So that was the Whispers more than anything else, and

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Speaker 2: like it's such an odd of course she is the

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Speaker 2: main character. She is If you haven't watched the first season,

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Speaker 2: missus Whistledown, who is the whole reason for all the

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Speaker 2: plot essentially.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and so again, a lot of people had a

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Speaker 1: lot of thoughts about this. Here's a quote from CNN

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Speaker 1: writer and critic Zoe Rose Bryant shared on x I

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Speaker 1: find it interesting how there are accountless fictional couples in

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Speaker 1: film and television where the man weighs more than the woman,

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Speaker 1: but people didn't start writing articles about whatever the mixed

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Speaker 1: weight romance is until it was the other way around.

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Speaker 1: The Independent article I quoted earlier said that the article

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Speaker 1: was Yeah, I like nuance, but the title should have

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Speaker 1: been are we still not ready for a mixed weight

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Speaker 1: romance on screen where the woman is fat? Which is

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Speaker 1: what I was mentioning earlier. Tobar has responded to all

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Speaker 1: this and said that she thinks this conversation is important

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Speaker 1: and wants to hear from those that disagree with her. Meanwhile, Yes,

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Speaker 1: like you said, Cochland has been open about the fact

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Speaker 1: she was aware of the conversation surrounding her body and

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Speaker 1: that she pushed for certain lines and scenes based off

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Speaker 1: of it, including a scene where she is naked. Quote.

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Speaker 1: It just felt like the biggest cue to all the

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Speaker 1: conversations surrounding my body it was amazingly empowering. And to

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Speaker 1: go back to the quote that you mentioned, we should

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Speaker 1: say it all because it's so great. So I believe

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Speaker 1: it was a fan somebody basically quoted her saying they

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Speaker 1: said she was brave for existing essentially, and she responded,

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Speaker 1: you know, it is hard because I think women with

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Speaker 1: my body type, women with perfect breast, don't see ourselves

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Speaker 1: on screen enough. I am very proud as a member

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Speaker 1: of the perfect breast community. I hope you enjoy seeing

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Speaker 1: them so.

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Speaker 3: Good, which is a great clap back.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I again thinking about this, this conversation

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Speaker 2: did not start until because she, I said, even though

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Speaker 2: it didn't always feature her as the leading lady, she's

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Speaker 2: been the leading lady. She has been whistled down and

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Speaker 2: that's been the big reveal. She's been like the catalyst

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Speaker 2: in this whole series. It wasn't until she was paired

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Speaker 2: up with a dude that she started getting critiques. And

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Speaker 2: from what I gather, there was a lot that was

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Speaker 2: cut when it comes to the intimate scenes. And again,

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Speaker 2: kind of that showrunner who was a new showrunner may

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Speaker 2: have like fallen prey to the conversations and criticisms to

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Speaker 2: a lot of people's disappointments.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because so many people were, like I said, wanted

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Speaker 1: this couple to be together. We're excited to see it.

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Speaker 2: They want it in real life, to the detriment of

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Speaker 2: his girlfriend today, like his real life Luke Newton's.

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Speaker 3: Real life girlfriends. Apparently they're good friends.

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Speaker 2: Nicola Coughlin and the girlfriend are really good friends, but

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Speaker 2: like they kind of harass or being like, but.

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Speaker 3: You're not Nikola, why are you on his arm?

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Speaker 2: Like she had to hide I think at one point

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Speaker 2: for the press, not because of being harassed, but for

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Speaker 2: the press to see how great Nicola and Luke were together.

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Speaker 1: I did read about that. I did read and it

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Speaker 1: was like, right after the press tour was done, she

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Speaker 1: came out. He was like, I have a girlfriend, right,

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Speaker 1: and you're supposed.

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Speaker 3: To be Is that true? We know you loved Nichol.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So people wanted it. Were you know, always talking about

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Speaker 1: the need for more representation. People were loving it, and

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Speaker 1: so I hope that that's not true, but I would

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Speaker 1: definitely believe that it is. Unfortunately, and also to end

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Speaker 1: on a bummer, When I was researching this, I a

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Speaker 1: lot of articles came up about women who were afraid

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Speaker 1: the men in their life would lead them if they

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Speaker 1: gained weight or didn't lose weight, and how it caused

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Speaker 1: tensions in their relationship. Are women feeling like they're being

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Speaker 1: fat shamed by their partner and finding comfort in the

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Speaker 1: label mixed weight just to see if others had the

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Speaker 1: same experience. So, like I was saying, it's like a

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Speaker 1: term people need. It's just not maybe this one, but

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Speaker 1: it's true. I mean, like, if you think about all

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Speaker 1: the talk we have about you know, you're losing the

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Speaker 1: weight before the wedding, And I've definitely felt this when

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Speaker 1: I've been in relationships. So this situation with Bridgerton, I

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Speaker 1: think is really highlighting something that a lot of us

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Speaker 1: have experienced. And it's terrible because I thought I was

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Speaker 1: going to go in and be like, yeah, fans can

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Speaker 1: be terrible or whatever, the media is bad or I

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Speaker 1: don't know, and then I came out like, oh, damn

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Speaker 1: you right, my real life, that's true?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which I knew. It's not like it was

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Speaker 1: a surprise. I think I was just I wasn't expecting

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Speaker 1: so many of those articles to come up when I

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Speaker 1: was researching this specific thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but they did, yeah, and I think again, like

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Speaker 2: when we talk about women and their bodies, if it's

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Speaker 2: not used as the punchline, they're uncomfortable like seeing them

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Speaker 2: in normal, real or like romantic relationships. It makes people

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Speaker 2: like and I can't stand her as a as an actress,

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Speaker 2: and I don't like I've definitely had problems with what

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Speaker 2: she's done and said. But Lena Dunham when she did

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Speaker 2: her episode with her show The Girls and she was

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Speaker 2: naked a lot, They're like, why why do they have

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Speaker 2: to throw it in my face? I don't need to

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Speaker 2: see it? Like, bro, what that's just a normal boy?

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Speaker 3: You say?

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Speaker 2: You most of the people who are really critical are

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Speaker 2: usually cis men. Heterosexual assistmen are the ones who are

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Speaker 2: like wanting to sleep with women, but you don't want

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Speaker 2: to see a normal woman naked mm hm, and you're

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Speaker 2: bothered by this, So what you're telling me that hmm,

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Speaker 2: like that this level of conversation that how being normal

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Speaker 2: like this was a very romantic sweet and like very

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Speaker 2: like beautifully laid out romantic scenes from what I imagine

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Speaker 2: with what Bridgiston usually does, and then like just having

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Speaker 2: anything normal if it's not the punchline, then why are

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Speaker 2: people so like, that's that's not that that's a problem.

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Speaker 2: We need to have that conversation why that's a problem

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Speaker 2: for you, right.

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Speaker 1: Are why it's unbelievable to you that it is the norm.

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Speaker 2: Right when that's the average person you're going to see. Dude,

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Speaker 2: just calm down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And as we've both said, this was very

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Speaker 1: specific topic wise. Neither of buzz have seen the whole show,

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Speaker 1: so we don't know. There might be other I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there are other issues we could discuss, but.

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Speaker 3: This was very issues.

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Speaker 2: There's many issues, yeah, so if we could discuss about those,

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Speaker 2: like we could talk about the fact that it had

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Speaker 2: this been a woman of color that was normal weight,

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Speaker 2: the level of like hate in the vitriol this would

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Speaker 2: have gotten would have been ten times worse. Like but

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Speaker 2: we're not going there because we know. But there's like

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Speaker 2: it just like.

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Speaker 1: Headaches and sue, Yes, headaches do and sue. But listeners,

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Speaker 1: if you have seen it and there's something you think

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Speaker 1: we should be talking about that we didn't, this was

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Speaker 1: very specific, but please let us know. You can write

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Speaker 1: to us as Stefani mom stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom stuff podcast

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Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff when Never Told

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Speaker 1: You or else on YouTube. We have a tea puppet

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Speaker 1: store and we have a book we can get wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your books. Thanks as always too, our super

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Speaker 1: producer Christina, our executive producer Maya and Urchtrictre Joey, thank you,

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Speaker 1: and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told

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Speaker 1: You is protection of iHeart Radio. For more podcast from

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Speaker 1: my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.