1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Frying and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We have 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: got an interview today and this one is with one 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: of the authors of a book put out by museum Hack. 6 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,079 Speaker 1: And if you have not heard of museum Hack, it 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: is a company that offers alternative museum tours and we're 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: going to get into that in the interview for a 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: bit more of an explanation of what that company is, 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: but in short, their approach to museums and history is 11 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: very irreverent and very playful. Based on the success of 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: museum Hacks history tours, their team decided to write a book. 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: One of the author's, Hayley Milliman, joined Holly to talk 14 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: about the book, which is titled Museum Hacks Guide to 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: History's Fiercest Females. Full disclosure, So I mentioned at one 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: point in the course of this interview a museum Hack 17 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: tour of the met that I went on that was 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: back in September. That tour was comped by the Benny, 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: So that was a freebee for me and I took 20 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: my husband well, and I might as well, just disclose 21 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 1: that I was invited to go on a tour but 22 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: I could not make the schedule work. Uh yeah, I 23 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: will say for a museum like the Met in particular, 24 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: they're not paying me to say anything about them. But 25 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 1: it was perfect for my husband because that museum is 26 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: overwhelming the first time you go, and he had never been, 27 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: so it was great to have someone go, here are 28 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: some cool things in this museum, and it made it 29 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot more easy for him to kind of take 30 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: in that incredible large space in a way that we 31 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: had a helper. It was really lovely. We also have 32 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: what other quick note, especially if you are listening in 33 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: a classroom or with younger listeners, There are a couple 34 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: of words in this episode that Holly and I don't 35 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: typically say. There are words that are commonly allowed on 36 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: broadcast television and are in the context of these tours, 37 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: but everybody has different boundaries of what language they would 38 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: prefer to use around their kids and students. So if 39 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: you think that might apply to you, a great idea 40 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: to check this one out first to make sure everything 41 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: is okay. Were your listeners. There's also an offer that 42 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: museum Hack is really graciously extending to our listeners at 43 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: the end of the interview, the name of that tour 44 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: contains the words that we're talking about, so we can't 45 00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: just bleep it out because then you wouldn't know the 46 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: name of the tour. Yes, so be sure to go 47 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: ahead and listen all the way to the end before 48 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: you make your decision about whether you want to share 49 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: this with younger history buffs in your life. But we 50 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: will jump right in to uh, Haley and I discussing 51 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: both museum Hack and this book. So first, now that 52 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 1: I have you, Haley, Uh, will you just tell us 53 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,519 Speaker 1: a little bit about what museum Hack is. Yeah. So 54 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: we are a company that leads unconventional tours of the 55 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: world's museum UM. We were founded about, I think six 56 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: years ago now by Nick Gray UM. Nick has like 57 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: a really funny story. So basically he had always kind 58 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: of hated museums. He thought they were super boring. He 59 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: never ever went to one. UM and then he was 60 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: a first date UM and she suggested going to the 61 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: met with him at night. UM, and so they went 62 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: and Nick fell We like to say that Nick fell 63 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: in love on that date, UM, but that's unfortunately with 64 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: the girl. But with the museum UM, and so something 65 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: about like something about being there with all of the 66 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: lights UM and the girl UM who he was with 67 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: his UM, the girl who's on the date was told 68 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 1: him kind of all of these stories about her, you know, 69 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 1: favorite pieces at the met and having that like personal 70 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: connection where he was hearing her experience with it rather 71 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: than just like reading the placards are kind of like 72 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: hearing an impersonal account of it really connected with him until, 73 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: like I said, he like totally fell in love with 74 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: museums UM and became like obsessed with them and spent 75 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: all of this free time at museums and basically just 76 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: kind of started bringing all of his friends on like 77 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: little mini tours for himself. Like he'd go and learn 78 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: um about like things he wanted to do and would 79 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: like tell his friends basically like oh like here's these 80 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: interesting pieces of art work that I'm into. UM. And 81 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, So it starts from there, and then we've 82 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: grown to a company. I think it's over seventy five employees. 83 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: Now we do tours in six different cities. UM. We 84 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: have so much fun and we basically just take people, 85 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: bring them to the museum UM and teach all of 86 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: our tours are very personalized, very centered along that like 87 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: initial experience that Nick had, which is like learning what 88 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: a person loves about the museum versus like just learning 89 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: about like all of the artifacts and the art and 90 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: like you know, a laundry list of names. It's really 91 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: about like what's the experience and the personal connection that 92 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: everybody has. UM. So we do that. That's like our 93 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: kind of main umbrella. We also do corporate tours, we 94 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: do scavenger hunts UM, and we have now just written 95 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: a book that we're kind of doing a lot of 96 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 1: different things all about like sharing stories, UM, about history 97 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: and art and culture and science that are that we're 98 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 1: passionate about. I love it because it makes art and 99 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: art history so alive for people in a completely new way. 100 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: Yes exactly. Yeah, it's like take it because it's like 101 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: these pieces they live there, but like it's it's bringing 102 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: like you could just just like you said, like it's 103 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: bringing them to life. UM. And it's really like leading 104 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: with that like why does this matter? And not like 105 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: why does it matter a large sense, like why does 106 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: it matter to you and to me? And just like 107 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: sitting here talking about it, UM, which like I think 108 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: we found just like makes all the difference in terms 109 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: of engagement for an audience. So you mentioned that you 110 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: have a book now which you are the main writer on. 111 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: How did you guys decide that, like, Okay, we've got 112 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: this tour thing down, now it's time to make a book. Yeah. 113 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: So you know, we were sitting um and first of 114 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: all to say that it's a very collaborative effort. UM. 115 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: So I'm like, I don't want to sell credit writing 116 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: it in any way. UM. But we uh we basically, um, 117 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: we're sitting down and we were talking about how, you know, 118 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: we're so thrilled that we have we're able to do 119 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: these tours in like six different cities across the United States. UM. 120 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: But that being said, like that still leaves many many 121 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: people who aren't in New York or Los Angeles or Chicago, UM, 122 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: who just like aren't getting to call it a museum 123 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: hack tour um and aren't getting to like experience that 124 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: type of storytelling. UM. So we really started last year 125 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of making an effort to tell the same sort 126 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: of stories that we tell in museums on our blog. 127 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: First and foremost, UM, our blog has been like pretty 128 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: like just like a standard kind of like corporate blog, 129 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: you know, like talking about promotions and like, you know, 130 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: work we have done with museums, but not really like 131 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: the storytelling aspect UM. So when I came on board 132 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: and we started doing storytelling blog pieces just to kind 133 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: of like experiment and be like, hey, do you are 134 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: people into this? Like people like this um and then 135 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: like with the goal of making eventually museum Hack a 136 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: household name um. And it became really clear that people 137 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: like did like the blog post um and did really 138 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: resonate with that storytelling. And that's that storytelling not only 139 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: resonated like on the stores in museums, but also uh 140 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: in written work as well. UM. And so then we 141 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: were like, well, you know this is like the movie. 142 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: Doing the blog with is great, Like let's figure out 143 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: another medium where we can not only have the stories 144 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: but also have this original artwork um and kind of 145 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: package it all up into something that you can hold 146 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: in your hands. UM. So yeah, that's kind of how 147 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: I do about initially. So this first book is all 148 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: about women, and I'm wondering how you decided. It seems 149 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: like the decision making process is pretty collaborative. How did 150 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: you all decide that that was the best plan for 151 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: your first book to focus on women. Yeah, so it's 152 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: definitely like a very collaborative process. I will say though 153 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: that I was pretty selfish and like pulling for women. 154 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: I think those are like the stories that really resonated 155 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: with me as I was writing on the blog that 156 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: I just like loved writing UM. And since I was 157 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: kind of spearheading the project initially, I was like, Okay, well, 158 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: when we're coming to a topic like, these are the 159 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: ones that I love so UM, so let's tours those. 160 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: But also, you know we've worked with um or, we'd 161 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: like looked and seeing what are what was resonating with 162 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: our audience in terms of stories that we were sharing 163 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: on Facebook and Instagram and that type of thinging and UM, like, 164 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: hands down, we would see that like almost every single 165 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: time we shared a story about a woman, no matter 166 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: like what the background, no matter if she was in science, 167 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: that she was you know, like a historical figure of 168 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: political figure in art, um, they would just always resonate 169 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 1: so deepree with our audiences. UM. And so it just 170 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: became kind of like a no brainer. UM. And also 171 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: obviously within like the last year to the like the 172 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: climate on recognizing women's achievements, acknowledging the struggles in the 173 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: pain that women have gone through as well as their 174 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: betty and like myriad contributions to society has been such 175 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: an important part of the conversations that are happening worldwide 176 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: over the last year. UM. So it's also just kind 177 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: of resonated and sit really well in with that. Now. 178 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: I have been on a museum hack tour and I 179 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,719 Speaker 1: know that it is. It's as you said, it's very 180 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: personal and it's got this nice casual air to it. 181 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering how that influenced how you wrote the book. 182 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 1: Were you always intentionally thinking we have to keep that 183 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:58,719 Speaker 1: kind of of tone to the whole book, or did 184 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: you play with other different is. Yeah, Um, we definitely 185 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: wanted to keep that talent. So one of the things 186 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: that we work with with our guys and then with 187 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: our writers is, um, we believe very strongly that people 188 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: need to be kind of entertained before they could be educated. UM. 189 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: And that goes into like, you know, entertainment isn't necessarily 190 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: just like oh, let's you know, make people laugh. It's 191 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: also like establishing that connection, right, UM. And so a 192 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: lot of times it's done through humor. Um. You know, 193 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: because a lot of times there's like funny scenarios and 194 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: funny stories, um. But sometimes that entertainment piece is done 195 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: by creating like very meaningful personal connections as well. UM. 196 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: So while we do like tend to work with humor 197 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: a lot, it also um it also lands on like 198 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: things that sefullly resonate with the writer or with the 199 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 1: tour guide. Um. And so yeah, it was absolutely a 200 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: percent a very conscious choice on our part to make 201 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: the stories resonate with the writers, um. And to like 202 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: lead from a place of like what's important to the 203 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: writers and what do they want to tell about each 204 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: of these women? Um? And that's a lot of what 205 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: the writing process looks like is like each of the 206 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: writers being like, Okay, you know, I know them writing 207 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: this story about this woman, but what do I want 208 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: to tell about her? Versus like, you know, we could 209 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: list off a litany a fact for everybody, but we 210 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: really want to tell like to make it a story 211 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: and to make it powerful, to like foster that connection 212 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: with the audience. It's like, Okay, what resonated with me? 213 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: So yeah, are like the same approach that we have 214 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: with leading with entertainment and then bringing in the piece 215 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: of education. So everything we right, we want to you know, 216 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: make people interested and want to make them teach them 217 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: something and have them want to learn more. But but 218 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: we believe that that becomes so much more powerful after 219 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: you have that kind of initial connection and through entertainment. 220 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: So it's interesting because they are the stories in the 221 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: book are still pretty comprehensive. It's not like people have 222 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: focused on one thing to the exclusion of the overall story. 223 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: So I'm wondering what the research process is like and 224 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: how you balance those two things. Yeah, so it's definitely 225 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: personalized for the writers. So I'll speak to mind first. 226 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: I think I tend to view um and so typically, 227 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: I guess I'll back up. Typically for each of the 228 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: women were going through like a you know, a high 229 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: level kind of overview of their life. But that being said, 230 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: none of our stories are that long, um, so you know, 231 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:17,080 Speaker 1: they're like around two thousands to three thousand words each, 232 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: and so with each of these women, you could easily 233 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: write multiple books on their whole lives and getting into 234 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: like the nitty gritty of decid' making in like a 235 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: lot of the political nuance or you know, what's basically 236 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: like the larger picture of what was going on around them. UM. 237 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: So while we are giving like an overview of their lives, 238 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: and like I like to think of it um as 239 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: like kind of like the greatest hits or highlights of 240 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: what what they were going on and what they were 241 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: kind of most known for and also what most resonated 242 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: with the writer. And so for me, my process is 243 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: kind of to just initially start out by reading just 244 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: some short summaries of the person's life. So that might 245 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: be like looking on Britannica or you know, just like 246 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,719 Speaker 1: looking at like a very short synopsis of like you know, 247 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: what would you say about this woman in a page 248 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: or two pages? Um. And what I'll do is read 249 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: a number of different sources that are kind of like 250 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: that and see what sticks out to me. So, like, 251 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,199 Speaker 1: what do I remember from the first couple of times 252 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: that I've just done this profile of this person? Um? 253 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: And then when I think about the things that like 254 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: resonate with me and that have stuck with me, That's 255 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: where I'm going to stake deeper and try to teach 256 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: out those parts of the story that I have that 257 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 1: personal connection to. And I know, it actually sounds a 258 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: lot like what we do when we're starting a research 259 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: project on our show, so I appreciate that completely. Coming up, 260 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna hear how Haley and her team work to 261 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: keep their stories accurate but still retain that tone that 262 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: their tours have that tends to be a little bit 263 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: lighter in nature. But first we are going to take 264 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: a quick sponsor break. A lot of what happens when 265 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: we're doing research is that, you know, we're kind of 266 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: trying to like tease out the realities of an event 267 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: or a person's life from kind of the mythologized versions 268 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: that get shared, and sometimes those one pagers leave things 269 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: out or they just gloss over the nuance of something. 270 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: So I'm wondering how you make sure you're getting the 271 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: accurate story, which sometimes will reveal itself to be much 272 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: darker or more unsettling than we maybe we're taught growing up, 273 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 1: But you also keep the content pretty light. How do 274 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: you work that out? Yeah? I think a lot of 275 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: it is handled on a case by case basis, and 276 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: I do think that there are some stories where, um, 277 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: we we always talk about I guess for me, this 278 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: resonates mostly at the end, right, Like it's like at 279 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: the end of the piece, we like to talk about 280 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: having like a mic drop moment, right, like of having 281 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: something that's like you know, like a punch at the 282 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: end that's going to keep the story with the person. 283 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: And you having been on a museum hack tour, you 284 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: think back to it, like our guide do that all 285 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:56,439 Speaker 1: the time, Like they'll end like on a joke or 286 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: a high note, or like they'll have like a one 287 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: liner at the end before they like you off onto 288 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: the next um exhibits. And so that's a principle that 289 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: we like to apply to the content that we write 290 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: as well. UM. But that being said, what that mic 291 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: drops is really will vary from person to person. So 292 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: like sometimes it is funny. Sometimes it's a funny mic 293 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: drop because like the larger story surrounding this woman is 294 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: like kind of ridiculous if there is just kind of humorous. 295 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: But sometimes it's just not funny at all. Um. Like sometimes, um, 296 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: we wrote about one woman, um Anna Cohannas, who was 297 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: like her land was basically completely sacked by settlers and 298 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: um she was from Haiti and she you know, like 299 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: all of her people were slaughtered and it's not funny. 300 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: You know, there's there's not a lot of humor that 301 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: you can take from the message of that story. So 302 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: the ending of that story isn't funny because it's not funny. 303 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: There's no humor in it. Instead, it's UM a call 304 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: to reflect people about you know, why don't we Why 305 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: why do we have a Columbus Day and we don't 306 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: celebrate her? You know why why have you never heard 307 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: her game before? And that's the mic drop of like 308 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: what's true to the story, um, and what's true to 309 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: the narrative of this person? Um? And so ending on 310 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: that kind of like mic drop moment will change depending 311 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: on who it is and what what we can take 312 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: from them. Um. Yeah. And we had another story about 313 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: a transgender Native American warrior and uh, that is also 314 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: not a funny story. UM. It's like it doesn't end, 315 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't end with humor. It ends with a lot 316 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: of fatness, of a lot of pain. And so being 317 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: true to that um is very important to us as well. 318 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: So you mentioned a couple of stories, but I wanted 319 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: to get from you maybe what two or three of 320 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: the women that are in the book are your favorites 321 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: or were your favorite either to research or write about 322 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: or read about when you were you know, kind of 323 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: looking over what other people had written for the book, 324 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: like which ones are the ones that really kind of 325 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: hit your heart? Yeah. So I love the story of kings. 326 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: I like and myself half Chinese UM, And so I 327 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: just I think her story is so cool UM. And 328 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: I like, personally I'm like, how can I adapt this 329 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: into like a young adult fantasy novel? Um? But I 330 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: just think her story is so cool. She Um was 331 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: a pirate who basically like ruled over the seas around 332 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: China UM with the bread flag fleet. She just was 333 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: like such a badass and her story is so crazy, 334 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: and we hear so much about so many like male 335 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: pirates from the Caribbean Um, both fictional and the fictional 336 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: and real, but we I had never heard of her before, 337 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: and her stories just so cool, and she like just 338 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: ended like her life she didn't even get in trouble 339 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: for being a pirate. Basically, she just got to like 340 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: hang up her flag and then like open a gambling 341 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: house and so right, bull, I think she's just like 342 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: she's just like such a bad ass UM, and she 343 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: likes started off life on like a floating brothel. So 344 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: she like truly like from the bottom to the depth. UM, 345 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: And so she has always resonated with me. I love 346 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:03,479 Speaker 1: her story. UM. I also UH wrote one about a 347 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: queen named tom IRUs who basically like overtook like one 348 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: of the world's greatest conquerors at the time. Um, she 349 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: was just like beat him on the battlefield. And again 350 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,399 Speaker 1: like never heard of her name. UM. And then the 351 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: story I was kind of referencing earlier about the person's 352 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: name is Ashtish and UM it's not actually it's like 353 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 1: a moniker, not an actual name. UM. But that story 354 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: was just like it was extremely haunting, and UM, I 355 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: had never another thing that I had never read about 356 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 1: or really known anything about. UM. And just learning about 357 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: that really stuck with me. UM. And again, like it 358 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: stuck with me in a completely different way than learning 359 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: about Chanction and how great her like life was. It 360 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: was just a reminder of like why it's so important 361 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 1: to tell these stories, um, and why it's so important 362 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: to reflect on a lot of narratives that have been 363 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: silenced or just never never featured in the first place. 364 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: Were there any that you had hoped you could include 365 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: in the books that either got edited out or we're 366 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: just never going to be part of the project that 367 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: maybe you're keeping to the side for the future. Yeah. 368 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: So many, UM, I mean, I there are so many. 369 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: There's I was like, I'm a huge Hamilton fans. I 370 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: was going back on l including one or three of 371 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: the Skylar sisters. Had one on Peggy there for like 372 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: so long, um, because she also is like a total badass. 373 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 1: It like defended Eliza like she was like pregnant and 374 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: defended their family from um a tory like hunting party. 375 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: Like it was just she's crazy. She's like actually like 376 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: super badass. Um, not at all as characters that she 377 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,959 Speaker 1: has a nable musical um. But so I had Peggy 378 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: in there for a while. There's another Revolutionary Wars story 379 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,719 Speaker 1: about Agent three five five. Um, there's just there's so 380 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: many and so yeah, there's there's a lot. Um. There's 381 00:18:56,080 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: definitely enough to fill like hundreds of books. But we 382 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: wanted to keep it like we wanted to keep it. 383 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: We wanted to really, especially for this first one, just 384 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: make sure that we were representing stories from all over 385 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: the world and a bunch of different cultures. Um. And 386 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 1: so that was something that really was important to us 387 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: is making sure we have people from like all corners 388 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: of the blow kind of represented as best we can. Um. 389 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: And so because of that, we had to and sometimes 390 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: like prioritize other people just to make sure that everybody 391 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: is represented. Um. And so hopefully for round two or 392 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: three or four we can include more perfect I'm wondering 393 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: what you're hoping, you know, when people get this book 394 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: and they're paging through it, when they're done with it, 395 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: at least the initial round, what is your your sort 396 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: of dearest hope in terms of what their takeaway will be. Yeah, 397 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: I hope the first infirm us that there was just like, wow, 398 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: history is really fun. Um. I have like personally always 399 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: loved history, and I've always loved history because even before 400 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: I worked with me Samhack is like a young girl, 401 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: I always thought out stories that I could connect with. UM. 402 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: I read like the Dear America DI It's like an 403 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: elementary school kid of like love that, and that was 404 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: like my first intro into history was like learning these 405 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: like pixilized accounts as people who like live in certain 406 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 1: time periods, and like I've made that connection and then 407 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 1: learned about the larger history. UM. So beyond anything. I 408 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: hope that people take away that history is super fascinating 409 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: and really important, um. And then I also hope that 410 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: they take away that like, there are just there are 411 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: so many women out there who have accomplished so much 412 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 1: and been done so many amazing things, um that we 413 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,160 Speaker 1: have never heard of, and it's so worthwhile to read 414 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: about them and learn about them and to find them 415 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: because they're literally in any part of the world in 416 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: any time period of history. They're amazing bad us without 417 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: doing amazing things, um, and sometimes terrible things to doing 418 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: amazing things, doing terrible things and just like living normally um. 419 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: And I think it's so important to like hear and 420 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: find their stories. Yeah, that's one of the things that 421 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: always comes up on our show, and it kind of 422 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: becomes my big soapbox issue of like, I want people 423 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: to understand that no matter what they think they are 424 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: living through or how unique the times we may be 425 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: in our something similar has always happened before, or there 426 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: has always been someone like them before that they can 427 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: identify with, or you know, we're all making history all 428 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: the time, so there is the odds are good that 429 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: someone out there has been through something similar or has 430 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: has dealt with something similar to what you're dealing with, 431 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: whether that's on a personal scale or you know, a 432 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: national scale or a global scale. We've all been doing 433 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 1: all kinds of things. Ye. You mentioned that there are 434 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 1: certainly plenty of great women's stories that could film many, many, 435 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: many books. Do you guys have an I already on 436 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: on what your future book projects will be? Yes, we do. 437 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: I can't secret what it is, UM, but I will 438 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: say that we do have an I UM and are 439 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: just kind of like starting to office of considering what 440 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: stories will be included. UM, And I guess I will 441 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: just like leave you with a tidbit that it will be. 442 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,680 Speaker 1: It'll be very student. It's the museum hacks like a 443 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: reverend voice and passion for like engaging storytelling. I love it. 444 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: I love it. This next segment of the interview is 445 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: really casual, because once Holly learned that Hailey is a 446 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: lifelong history buff, she just wanted to know with what 447 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: some of her favorite historical subjects are. Before we get 448 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: into that, though, we are going to pause for a 449 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: quick sponsor break now, just because you mentioned that you 450 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: have loved history all your life, I'll hit you with 451 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: the surprise question. I'm wondering, like, outside of this project 452 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: and maybe even outside of women's history, is there something 453 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: that is just one of your favorite pet topics in history. 454 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, um, I I like go straight to 455 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: Tutor England. I was like a test to Tutor England, 456 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: and like I have so many books on Henry the 457 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: Eighth and all of his wives, and like I used 458 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: my ap Euro exam. I was just like I was 459 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: so into it. It It was so fascinating, and I had 460 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: different periods of time where I was like obsessed with 461 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: each of the different wives and learning like all about them, 462 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: and then also like Queen Elizabeth, like just basically that 463 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: like whole specific branch of the family from Henry the 464 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: East to Elizabeth One. Um, I was always just like 465 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: I could I could never stop reading about them. But 466 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 1: then I also took Latin for a very long time. 467 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 1: So Roman history and Greek history and like Greek and 468 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: Roman mythology are also I'm also very passionately about those 469 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: as well. Um, So they don't have quite as many 470 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: history books I thought those as I do about the Tutors, 471 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: and I think I have like most that were ever written. 472 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: Scott for Christmas for like years on him. What is 473 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: it about the tutors that you love so much? I 474 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: honestly don't know. I think Elizabeth, like Elizabeth was like 475 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: and her mother and Helen were just like so fascinating 476 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: to me. I think it's like something about they were 477 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 1: just like so powerful in such a unique way for 478 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: the time. It just like really fascinated me. And it's 479 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: I think women who like or and not even just 480 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: necessarily women, but just people who have to play like 481 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: games like that, like court intrigue games, They're just so 482 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: fascinating because I would be so bad at it, Okay. 483 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: I was just like I would never be able to, 484 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: like I would never be able to play into like 485 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: the palace intrigue. I would never be able to like 486 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: like what like learning about like how Elizabeth would like 487 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: like just like balance like marriage proposals for decades. I 488 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: was like, I would never be me. I have joked 489 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: on the show before that when I look at like 490 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: the lives of royals, particularly in those types of scenarios 491 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: where there are a lot of power grabs going on 492 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: where I'm like, who wants that job? But I don't 493 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: understand it why I wouldn't want any part of any 494 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:03,239 Speaker 1: of that. Um, I could not possibly handle. Yeah. I 495 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: also always joked to like, my favorite foods are like 496 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: bread and cheese. So like in all those books, I'd 497 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 1: be like, they just sat at the table, it's like 498 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: a hunk of bread and hard cheese, and I'm like, 499 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: that's sound amazing. I want to eat that through like deal. 500 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: So something I had a very similar thing as a kid, 501 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: not from a history book, but reading Heidi, because they 502 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: always went up into the mountains and uh, they always 503 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: had bread and cheese and a little a bag of milk, 504 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: and I would for the longest time that was all 505 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: I wanted to eat because it was something I read 506 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,239 Speaker 1: in a thing that I thought was cool. So I know, 507 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: I'm always like, oh yeah, like I would. I would 508 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: do really well in medieval England, Like gimme, gimme hard 509 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: bread and cheese. I'd be happy. I love it. On 510 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,919 Speaker 1: that yummy, yummy note. Thank you so much, Hayley. I 511 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,360 Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking time to talk about this project 512 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: with us. It's such a fun read and I think 513 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 1: it's sort of uh, it's interesting because it's a great 514 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: intro I think for people that maybe haven't looked at 515 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: much of these histories in depths before or even at all. 516 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: It's such a great little like opening the door and going, 517 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: here's what's actually cool about all this stuff. So I 518 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: think your wish will come true and that people will 519 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 1: walk away getting a better understanding of how interesting it 520 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: all is. Yeah, that's yeah, that's just my hope that 521 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: you get something resonates with you and you're like, oh 522 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: my gosh, I have to learn everything I can about 523 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 1: this UM. And on that note, we just wanted to 524 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: extend to your listeners. If anybody purchase a copy of 525 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: the book between now and the end of February, UM, 526 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: you can send us an email copy of your receipt 527 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: and you'll get a free ticket to UM any of 528 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: our Badass which is tours in the city of your choice. UM. 529 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: So just send us a copy of your receipt and 530 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: you can keep on learning about Badass Woman UM and 531 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: one of the six cities we do tours. And I 532 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: love it. That's so cool. Thank you so much. Alright, 533 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: miss Haley, we appreciate you. Yeah, a problem. We are 534 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: absolutely going to have that info on the museum Hack 535 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: tour that Haley mentioned. The offer for on our show page, 536 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: so if you need that info again, you can just 537 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: check it out there. You don't need to, you know, 538 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: pull over and write it down anywhere. Also, lots and 539 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: lots of thanks to Haley Milliman and museum Hack for 540 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: sharing such a unique and very unstuffy approach to history. Today. 541 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: You can find museum hack online at museum hack dot 542 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: com to check out all the tours that they offer 543 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: and the cities they offer them in. They are also 544 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: on Twitter at museum hack. Are you ready for some 545 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: listener mail about food? I sure am, especially since it's 546 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: about food. Since Haley and I diverge to talk about 547 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: food that we were inspired because of history of books, 548 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 1: I thought it might be a good a good one 549 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: to match up with this. This is from our listener Michael, 550 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: and it is about our A. Scoffier episode and particularly 551 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: about frog's legs. He wrote, Hi, Holly and Tracy, I 552 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: just listened to your episode on AUGUSTA. Scoffier and you 553 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: may chinned about the English apprehension to eating frog's legs 554 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: and August's consequent hiding of the fact that what was 555 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 1: in a dish he was serving was frog's legs by 556 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: calling it something else. You seem to agree that it 557 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,879 Speaker 1: did sound disgusting. I had the same idea, that is, 558 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: before I actually had them stay tuned. I have a 559 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: rebuttal to that. My wife is from Malaysia and it 560 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,640 Speaker 1: is something that's often served, although it is stir fried 561 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: with garlic and other vegetables at coffee shops. As a 562 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: side note, coffee shops typically referred to enclosed roadside restaurants, 563 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: which are different from the open air hacka stalls, and 564 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: at the time I made a note to just eat 565 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: what I was served and not ask what it was 566 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: and just enjoy. This has served me well whenever visiting 567 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: her family, and I have passed this on to our 568 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: son for whenever we go to visit. One time visiting 569 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: her before we were married, her parents took us to 570 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: a coffee shop for dinner. Food is typically served in 571 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: large dishes and placed on a large lazy susan to 572 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: share around the table. One of the dishes looked like 573 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: just small chicken or squab legs. I was so used 574 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: to seeing chicken's feet, which can also be alicious served 575 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: at dim sum, so I thought that was what they were, 576 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: and needless to say, they were awesome. I think I 577 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: had eight of them. I did ask her what those were, 578 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: and her reply, if they're good, just keep eating them. 579 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 1: I will tell you later. She did tell me later 580 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: that they were obviously frog's legs. And actually our son 581 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: has developed his mom's palette. He has tried chicken's feet 582 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: and liked them at dim sum and stir fried hole 583 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: baby octopus. He even asked for more octopus and there 584 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: was no hiding what those were. I just wanted to 585 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: share that story. Thank you for your podcast. My son 586 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: actually asked to listen when he sees them in my 587 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,719 Speaker 1: podcast app. Michael, I apologize if we sounded like we 588 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: were disgusted by frog's legs. I'm not. I have eaten 589 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: them many times. But I think our hang up was 590 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: people being served food they were being lied to about. Absolutely. Yeah, 591 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: I think I told you this story. Um. When we 592 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: record and we have the sponsor break, we have sort 593 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: of a minute where we're just letting there be some 594 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: space in the recording file for the sponsor break to 595 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: make it easier to edit that in later. Um. And 596 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: I told Holly the story about how I was a 597 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: vegetarian in at two different points in my life for 598 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: periods of years. And the second time around, I was 599 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: working as a massage therapist at a fancy destination spa 600 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: and they had a party for their members and the 601 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: chef had prepared both quail and frog legs, and I 602 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm eating that, Like, sorry about my 603 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: vegetarianism going out the window at this point to eat 604 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: these frog legs. Yet, my my hang up was definitely 605 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,719 Speaker 1: serving people food that they would not necessarily appreciate eating 606 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: without their consent in a sneaky way. Yeah, I mean 607 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: the flip right to remember, if you recall that story 608 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: of a scoffier, is that a lot of times these 609 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: people wanted to eat at a fancy French restaurant, but 610 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: they didn't understand the menu and were apparently uh not 611 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,080 Speaker 1: into asking what anything was, so they would just let 612 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: the chef and the major detail pick out the the 613 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: menu and then they would just eat it and be like, 614 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: look at us eating fancy French food. So you know, 615 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of trickery. It bothers me less 616 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: knowing that they were sort of just willfully ignorant on that. Yeah, 617 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: but that is the scoop. Yeah, uh, bronxlies don't sound 618 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: disgusting to me at all. Nope, Nope, sign me any 619 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: times since I was a kiddo, I say, signed me up. 620 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: But also I mean, at this point, I have meat 621 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: in my meals for far fewer meals than my non 622 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 1: meat meals. Me too, Me too. I've definitely cut back 623 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: a bunch um. But then there are times I know 624 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 1: I'm breaking the hearts of all of the vegetarians in 625 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: our listening group. It's complicated. Everyone has a different relationship 626 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: with food. If you would like to write to us, 627 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: you could do so at History Podcast at how stof 628 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: works dot com. You can also find us everywhere on 629 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: social media as missed in History, uh, you can go 630 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: to our website, which is missed in history dot com 631 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: and you will find every episode of the show ever, 632 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: as well as show notes for the episodes that Tracy 633 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: and I have worked on, and occasional other goodies UH. 634 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: And we encourage you to go subscribe to the show. 635 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: If you have an already, you can do that at 636 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, the I Heart Radio app, or Brillian anywhere 637 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. For more on this and thousands 638 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: of other topics, visit how stuff works dot com.