Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Hi everyone, welcome to
Speaker 1: this episode of The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside my
Speaker 1: co host Alex Rodriguez. Coming up on the show, we're
Speaker 1: going to check in with Jasmine Robinson. She's a founding
Speaker 1: partner of Monarch Collective. They're a new and pretty novel fund.
Speaker 1: They're completely focused on women's sports. So much to dive
Speaker 1: into their alex. But before we get to that, I
Speaker 1: want to check in with you. I'm looking at your background.
Speaker 1: You are not my friend in Miami. You're in Tahoe
Speaker 1: for a golf tournament, a big golf tournament. I know
Speaker 1: you've been looking for it to tell me about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so John Miller, executive longtime executive for NBC was
Speaker 2: kind enough to invite me. And Taho has always been
Speaker 2: a tournament that I've always enjoyed watching from afar, but
Speaker 2: it was always during the baseball season. But I remember
Speaker 2: watching Michael Jordan's that Carey with a hole in one,
Speaker 2: and you know Tony Romo. So I always said, if
Speaker 2: I get an opportunity, I'll go, and sure enough, the
Speaker 2: schedule worked out this year. I know Jason that we've
Speaker 2: traded places now, because a couple of weeks ago you
Speaker 2: were into this golf kick, I.
Speaker 3: Was kind of laughing at you. Now you're laughing at me.
Speaker 1: I'm laughing my ass off.
Speaker 3: My goal is not.
Speaker 2: To win or to you know, post a great score,
Speaker 2: is really not to embarrass myself as much as possible.
Speaker 1: You know, I think that that is It's a very
Speaker 1: novel goal. I have a lot of faith in you.
Speaker 1: But I mean, this is no joke. I mean, these
Speaker 1: are really good golfers. I bet it's a pretty tough course.
Speaker 1: Give us a sense of like what it's all about
Speaker 1: the because you mentioned there are a number of notable
Speaker 1: people playing, but it gets from all over like media
Speaker 1: world and business world and sports world.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I would say is the titans of sports
Speaker 2: across every industry in sports, right from like the Jordans
Speaker 2: of Steph Curry's of the world, Tom Brady's, Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 2: and like so many names you would recognize as coming
Speaker 2: here over the last twenty five years. And then you
Speaker 2: have some executives across the NBC platform. And what I
Speaker 2: like specifically about this is you get to play your
Speaker 2: own ball, but you play your handicap, so I'm a
Speaker 2: fifteen handicap, Jason, So if I shoot an eighty five,
Speaker 2: maybe that's a net seventy. And you play Thursday and
Speaker 2: Friday with an opportunity to advance a Saturday, chances are
Speaker 2: I won't be playing on Saturday, but I'm going to
Speaker 2: give it my best go.
Speaker 1: I have to say I always assume that a highly
Speaker 1: successful professional athlete would naturally be good at any sport,
Speaker 1: including golf. But I think you're not as good as
Speaker 1: maybe you thought you were going to be. Is that true?
Speaker 1: Can I say that is your friend the reason?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you can say it as my friend, as
Speaker 2: my foe, as anything you want. I've been called a
Speaker 2: lot worse. I think I'm a friend. Absolutely, you're a
Speaker 2: close friend. But that doesn't make me good golfer, Jason.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: I will tell you the one thing that is so
Speaker 2: hard for me, and I think one of the reasons
Speaker 2: why pitchers and hockey players are so good and quarterbacks
Speaker 2: is pitchers don't have to combat their baseball swing. You know,
Speaker 2: for forty years I've been thinking about one thing is
Speaker 2: really snapping my wrist as fast as possible. Wait wait,
Speaker 2: wait in a snap? Well, if you do that in golf,
Speaker 2: that's hell. So one of the things to talk about
Speaker 2: in golf is really keeping a very still risk, which
Speaker 2: is a contrarium move to what I've been doing for
Speaker 2: the last forty years.
Speaker 3: So that's what I have to fight.
Speaker 2: And my biggest fight is inside fifty yards, like the
Speaker 2: chipping and putting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, well, good luck. I'm sure you're going to
Speaker 1: do great. I'm in LA and I'm headed today to
Speaker 1: something that I'm excited to tell you about after the fact,
Speaker 1: which is Uninterrupted, who obviously we know Everick Carter and
Speaker 1: Lebron James. It is part of the spring Hill Group.
Speaker 1: They are doing a film festival in Hollywood and it's
Speaker 1: all about athletes telling stories. And one of the movies
Speaker 1: that's gonna premiere I'm so pumped to see is about
Speaker 1: Renee Montgomery. You know her as a fellow owner. She's
Speaker 1: an owner of the Atlanta Dream and most notably she
Speaker 1: played for the Land Dream until she didn't And the
Speaker 1: reason she didn't she opted out in the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: season because of everything that was going on in the
Speaker 1: country at that time and devoted herself to voting rights.
Speaker 1: If you recall Kelly Leffler, who was then the owner
Speaker 1: of the Atlanta Dream, had come out in a way
Speaker 1: that was antithetical, I think it's fair to say to
Speaker 1: a lot of the Black Lives Matter movement and a
Speaker 1: lot of the protests that were going on, and the
Speaker 1: Atlanta Dream led the way to essentially unseat her from
Speaker 1: her senate seat, Kelly Leffler, and she lost to Raphael Warnock.
Speaker 1: And so this movie tells the story of a lot
Speaker 1: of that. So I can't wait to see it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: very much a vibe that you and I both like
Speaker 1: in terms of athletes, you being one of them telling
Speaker 1: their own stories. So I'm psyched to see it, and
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be great.
Speaker 3: Well, I was remarkable, and I'm jealous.
Speaker 2: I wish I was there with you, Jason, But you know,
Speaker 2: I had an opportunity to spend some time with Renee
Speaker 2: at a United Way Boys and Girls Club event that
Speaker 2: we had, and she was wildly impressive and had so
Speaker 2: much convictions. Ye And look, it's relatable to me because
Speaker 2: we were at Ground zero in Minnesota, just a few
Speaker 2: blocks away from Target where we play our home games,
Speaker 2: with the timbles and the links, and that was ground zero, So,
Speaker 2: you know, admirable that she took a position that she
Speaker 2: really believes in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is very much in line with the
Speaker 1: guests that we're going to talk about coming up. Jason
Speaker 1: Robinson has herself gone all in on women's sports. This
Speaker 1: is someone who has worked with other people that we know,
Speaker 1: specifically with Grouseback, who is the majority owner of the
Speaker 1: Boston Celtics. For now the different topic for another day
Speaker 1: in terms of what is going to happen with the Celtics.
Speaker 1: But she teamed up Jasmine did with Karen Nortman, who
Speaker 1: is well known as one of the founding partners of
Speaker 1: Angel City. They created a fun monarch collective that is
Speaker 1: solely focused on women's sports. They've taken a couple stakes
Speaker 1: in NWSL teams that's of course, the National Women's Soccer League.
Speaker 1: They've been involved looking at some of what's going on
Speaker 1: in the WNBA and just really investing heavily literally and
Speaker 1: figuratively in women's sports.
Speaker 2: I think it's a very exciting space. If you think
Speaker 2: about the NBA teams, whether it's the Lakers, the next
Speaker 2: Golden State. You're talking about the Giants, right, You're talking
Speaker 2: about Google, Facebook, you know Microsoft and what they're trying
Speaker 2: to do with their fund I think is more of
Speaker 2: a starter mentality, right, you know, you can say women's sports,
Speaker 2: even though they've been around for a long time, they're
Speaker 2: starting to get real reo attraction, which is really exciting
Speaker 2: and it makes the investment thesis very exciting, but it's
Speaker 2: high risk, much higher rewards.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be interesting to talk to her at this
Speaker 1: moment because one of the really interesting things for me
Speaker 1: as a consumer of sports media, which I know you
Speaker 1: are as well, is how much women's sports is finding
Speaker 1: its way into the top headlines, whether it's on ESPN,
Speaker 1: whether it's on the athletic So much attention is being paid,
Speaker 1: which is wildly different from where were just a few
Speaker 1: years ago. And when you think about the things that
Speaker 1: have to happen to really make this business case real,
Speaker 1: part of it is purely exposure. Chronicling it and exposing
Speaker 1: it to you know, a broader audience is just really important.
Speaker 1: And by the way, for you as an owner, for
Speaker 1: Jasmine and her colleagues as owners, that's what's ultimately going
Speaker 1: to make this a profitable business, I think is people
Speaker 1: just paying attention.
Speaker 3: On the consumer You said it best. They're ready for
Speaker 3: the story. They're ready to.
Speaker 2: Spend the hard earned money into women's sports, and we're
Speaker 2: seeing it with the links. We're having record numbers and
Speaker 2: attendance in viewership. Obviously, we're having a good year. We
Speaker 2: have one for titles, which helps. But I'm really excited
Speaker 2: to hear how she thinks about it. And anybody who's
Speaker 2: out there thinking this is going to slow down, I
Speaker 2: think they're wrong. I think this will have a compounding
Speaker 2: effect with the consumer. With the quality, I think is
Speaker 2: a flywheel that'll create even more talented players in the
Speaker 2: future that are going to win in on this, because
Speaker 2: as you celebrate the Kaitlyn Clarks and others, there's going
Speaker 2: to be a twelve year old gal out there, someone
Speaker 2: like my daughter.
Speaker 3: Someone may be like our kids.
Speaker 2: I would say, hey, I want to be the next
Speaker 2: Kaitlyn Clark, and that's good for business totally.
Speaker 1: And I think about this all the time. They're going
Speaker 1: to be young women who say, not only I want
Speaker 1: to be Kaitlyn Clark, but I want to be Jasmine
Speaker 1: Robinson or I want to be Jess Gellman, you know,
Speaker 1: like the people who have these positions of power in sports,
Speaker 1: you know, as owners, as executives, et cetera. So let's
Speaker 1: get to it, Jason Robinson. So here with us is
Speaker 1: Jasmine Robinson. She's managing partner at Monarch Collective, an amazing
Speaker 1: background that she's going to get into and talk to
Speaker 1: us all about what Monarch are is up to and
Speaker 1: women's sports in general. So, Jasmine, how do you introduce
Speaker 1: yourself to the world?
Speaker 5: Amazing? Yeah, excited for the conversation.
Speaker 4: So I am the co founder and managing partner of
Speaker 4: Monarch Collective, where the first fund focused exclusively on investing
Speaker 4: in women's sports, and have been in the sports ecosystem
Speaker 4: almost my whole career, so sports and investor, sports operator,
Speaker 4: and also fun fact, daughter of an NFL athlete, and
Speaker 4: so I think I feel like I've gotten the player perspective,
Speaker 4: the owner perspective, and everything in between.
Speaker 1: Let's start with Monarch because it's amazing that it took
Speaker 1: as long for this to happen as it did in
Speaker 1: terms of like a dedicated fund. But tell us about
Speaker 1: the decision to start it and why now is the
Speaker 1: right time for you and Kara you'r co founder.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it.
Speaker 4: Both took a long time for this to happen. But
Speaker 4: a lot of things happened really recently that I think
Speaker 4: made it possible for us to actually kick off this fund.
Speaker 4: Hard to even remember that it wasn't until twenty nineteen
Speaker 4: that actually US sports leagues were really welcoming fund investors
Speaker 4: into teams and leagues, and so that was obviously a
Speaker 4: really important precursor. But then also I think it really
Speaker 4: takes the market really buying into the thesis. And so
Speaker 4: you know, I was a sports investor at this fun
Speaker 4: called Causeway prior, and we looked at a bunch of
Speaker 4: things in women's sports, and you know, there weren't that
Speaker 4: many things that were of scale. And then I think
Speaker 4: finally you started seeing proof points come onto the market,
Speaker 4: and I think what my partner Kara co founded in
Speaker 4: Angel City was certainly one of the big ones, but
Speaker 4: many others around the market that finally you had a
Speaker 4: few case studies to talk about when you go and
Speaker 4: talk to institutional investors about why women's sports really makes
Speaker 4: sense as an investment class. And I think when we
Speaker 4: started our fundraising, we were right at the bleeding edge
Speaker 4: of being able to get investors to buy into that
Speaker 4: would go out and we could get everyone excited about
Speaker 4: women's soccer, but then we talk about women's basketball and
Speaker 4: people would be like, maybe we need to lower the
Speaker 4: hoop to make it more interesting, or like, you know,
Speaker 4: I just don't really think women's basketball is going anywhere.
Speaker 4: And then a couple of months into the fundraise, the
Speaker 4: NCAA numbers came out two years ago, and you know,
Speaker 4: we stopped getting the question about why women's basketball was
Speaker 4: interesting to us. So I think we time the market.
Speaker 4: I think at the moment when institutional investors could hear
Speaker 4: this message, but I certainly think the investment opportunity was
Speaker 4: there long before.
Speaker 2: So Jasmine, I'm really interested to know if there was
Speaker 2: like an AHA moment for you, obviously Kalin Clark's and
Speaker 2: AHA moment for the whole world, but you were ahead
Speaker 2: of a curve. Can you tell us an example too,
Speaker 2: when you just said, Okay, now I'm convinced, I'm resolute,
Speaker 2: I'm going all in.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think it was a lot of really studying the
Speaker 4: history of what made the NFL takeoff in the seventies
Speaker 4: and the NBA takes off in the eighties. Like I
Speaker 4: wrote papers on some of these topics when I was
Speaker 4: at Harvard, it was just sort of fascinated by that history.
Speaker 4: And so while it's a different set of circumstances that
Speaker 4: made women's sports really pop up, it started to be
Speaker 4: clear to me that, you know, the cultural moment was
Speaker 4: really right for greater acceleration of fan adoption. And at
Speaker 4: the same time, I think having invested in and diligenced,
Speaker 4: you know, probably every emerging sports league that's come about
Speaker 4: in the last five years, I had real conviction that
Speaker 4: it takes both media companies and brands to be really
Speaker 4: behind a sports proposition to really make the P and
Speaker 4: L work and really make that sort of acceleration moment happen.
Speaker 4: And so I think one of the big things for
Speaker 4: me was going and talking to the folks at the
Speaker 4: major media companies and brands just on wide ranging topics,
Speaker 4: but it started to be that finally women's sports was
Speaker 4: sort of a core strategy that they wanted to talk about,
Speaker 4: and that to me was the Reil shift that made
Speaker 4: me believe, this is the moment that it can really
Speaker 4: take off.
Speaker 1: Tell us about sort of translating that to the limited
Speaker 1: partner community and sort of what those conversations were like,
Speaker 1: because obviously, as we all know, like they're incredibly data driven,
Speaker 1: they want commps, they want you know, every emerging fund
Speaker 1: has its own challenges, but I wonder about those sorts
Speaker 1: of conversations and how they evolved over time.
Speaker 4: I think we had the real benefit fit of the
Speaker 4: fact that there were groups like ARC doos out there
Speaker 4: really educating the broader institutional investor market of why sports
Speaker 4: is an interesting asset class to be investing in. And
Speaker 4: all the folks at ARCTOS are great collaborators as we
Speaker 4: think about this space, as well as many of the
Speaker 4: other funds around. So I think it was great that
Speaker 4: we'd go out to investors and many of them had
Speaker 4: heard the ARC dose pitch before, so they kind of
Speaker 4: got like why sports, and what we needed to help
Speaker 4: educate them on was why women's sports.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to be clear, we're talking about ARCTOS,
Speaker 1: the private equity firm. They were created to invest specifically
Speaker 1: in sports teams and the sports ecosystem. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I think the other interesting element to this is, you know,
Speaker 4: we have institutional investors in our LP base, but we
Speaker 4: actually have a lot of individuals and more institutional family
Speaker 4: offices as investors as well. And we also found people
Speaker 4: that said, you know, I would have never really thought
Speaker 4: about investing in sports, but the way that women's sports
Speaker 4: can move topics of gender equity and racial equity forward
Speaker 4: in really unique ways really speaks to me and is
Speaker 4: sort of clear why this investment opportunity really resonates. And
Speaker 4: so I think that's a big angle of it as well.
Speaker 4: And so if you look across our LP base, two
Speaker 4: thirds of them or either women or people from underrepresented backgrounds,
Speaker 4: because I think people kind of really got that angle
Speaker 4: of this story too, and why we feel like dynamics
Speaker 4: of representation really are things that drive enterprise value in
Speaker 4: actually building women's sports teams where you need to build
Speaker 4: things that resonate with athletes and fan bases.
Speaker 2: So, Jasmine, as you think about women's sports, one of
Speaker 2: the challenges you and your partner, I'm sure had to
Speaker 2: come across to Jason's point is the Trailing twelve, the
Speaker 2: trailing twenty four thirty six. It's an argument that you
Speaker 2: have to forecast to say, don't pay attention to the past,
Speaker 2: pay attention to where we are.
Speaker 3: Today and we're moving forward.
Speaker 2: If you look at Mark Lazurie and Josh Harris, right,
Speaker 2: they bought the Bucks and the Sixers. Lazurie with the
Speaker 2: Bucks for on five hundred and fifty million, and Josh
Speaker 2: Harris with the Sixers under three hundred. I think that'd
Speaker 2: be the first one to admit if you fast forward
Speaker 2: ten or twelve years, that those franchise wouldn't be worth
Speaker 2: what they are today. So if we had that same
Speaker 2: exercise with the WNBA, what do you think these teams
Speaker 2: could be worth high end low end in ten to
Speaker 2: twelve years from now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good question. I think you're spot on that.
Speaker 4: A little bit of the problem is if you think
Speaker 4: about what's happened over the last two years, you'll kind
Speaker 4: of miss how quickly the growth is happening, like the
Speaker 4: way ticket prices are moving, the way sponsorship's moving. I
Speaker 4: think the really you know interesting things about driving returns
Speaker 4: in women's sports is you know, you don't have to
Speaker 4: forecast that these are going to become billion dollar businesses
Speaker 4: to actually believe that there's a really strong return here.
Speaker 4: You know, if you think you can make the case
Speaker 4: that it's going to be something that's worth two hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty or three hundred million dollars, you can get
Speaker 4: into a lot of these assets and drive a great return. Now,
Speaker 4: I think to do that it actually takes being real
Speaker 4: hands on in collaborative partners about how you actually build
Speaker 4: the fan base and how you sell sponsorship and how
Speaker 4: you treat the athletes and sort of all of the
Speaker 4: important things. But I think you can get there, and
Speaker 4: so I believe pretty firmly that they'll be worth sort
Speaker 4: of well north of those you know, few hundred million
Speaker 4: dollar valuations. But I think that is really underwriteable today
Speaker 4: just based on revenue where it is today, and you know,
Speaker 4: even some of the just sort of ticketting and sponsorship
Speaker 4: data that's out there from the NWSL and WNBA, from
Speaker 4: the top performers.
Speaker 1: You know, Jasmine, you mentioned arctos, And if we think
Speaker 1: about sort of this growing universe of sports funds, you know,
Speaker 1: you think about arctos, You think about you know, Dynasty
Speaker 1: dial et cetera, or blew out. When you look at
Speaker 1: sort of the addressable market as it were, or even
Speaker 1: the kind of aperture through which you're looking is it
Speaker 1: mostly team stakes, is it the entire ecosystem? Like what
Speaker 1: are the most attractive and feasible investments that you're going
Speaker 1: after as monarch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're taking a very focused strategy. I think
Speaker 4: there's going to be a lot of value created across
Speaker 4: the ecosystem. But when we were setting out our strategy,
Speaker 4: we really felt like there was this unique moment where
Speaker 4: around the most mature sports teams, leagues, and then sets
Speaker 4: of proprietary rights, there was really strong protected downside, but
Speaker 4: where we felt like the upside really looked a lot
Speaker 4: more like venture type returns. And so we felt like,
Speaker 4: given that's where the market is today, that's really where
Speaker 4: we want to focus. And so we've made three investments
Speaker 4: in teams so far. We're deep in conversations around some
Speaker 4: sort of league or more rights oriented opportunities, and so
Speaker 4: that's really what it'll look like. And you know, we're
Speaker 4: not trying to go and do fifty of these deals.
Speaker 4: We want to do six or seven deals in this
Speaker 4: fund that we think are the spaces where we're in
Speaker 4: aligned ownership groups, where we feel like there's tons of
Speaker 4: room for growth and where hopefully we can add value.
Speaker 2: Is hands on investors, So jasmine, if you had two
Speaker 2: examples as invested in a primary team in a primary
Speaker 2: city like New York or LA and this business is
Speaker 2: throwing off is actually negative cash flow five million dollars
Speaker 2: versus a city and a secondary tertiary market is not
Speaker 2: growing as fast. It may not be as popular, but
Speaker 2: it's making five million dollars a year. How do you
Speaker 2: think about those investments in which one would you pick?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Oh, that's a great question.
Speaker 4: I guess I kind of think about sort of the
Speaker 4: cash flow profile of teams really as like, if a
Speaker 4: team's losing money, if that loss is actually high ROI
Speaker 4: growth capital around you know, where where I think the
Speaker 4: asset value is going to grow, then I would take
Speaker 4: the team that was losing money, but in a larger market.
Speaker 4: Like if I felt like that five million dollars as
Speaker 4: actually an investment in building the fan base or upgrading
Speaker 4: the practice facility or something that I felt really confident
Speaker 4: was going to have a you know, three x plus
Speaker 4: return on making that investment, then I think I'm fine
Speaker 4: with these teams losing money. I think we're we're running
Speaker 4: too is. I think, as with any business, there are
Speaker 4: some of those losses that are driven by high ROI
Speaker 4: growth opportunities, and then there are other cases where it's
Speaker 4: actually a loss but it's not creating net value. In
Speaker 4: as directive a way, and so we really try to
Speaker 4: kind of measure it like that when we're thinking about it.
Speaker 4: I think that being said, like you know, New York
Speaker 4: and LA are incredible markets and probably ones you'd always
Speaker 4: want to be in in any given league, but I
Speaker 4: think there are real opportunities, depending on the sport, to
Speaker 4: be in markets that are outside of that that might
Speaker 4: be every bit as valuable just because of dynamics of
Speaker 4: you know, use academies and what the pipeline is there
Speaker 4: or what the fan base looks like in any given sports.
Speaker 4: So I think there are certainly opportunities outside of those
Speaker 4: cities too.
Speaker 1: And what do you see, Jasmine when you when you
Speaker 1: look across the ownership groups and Karen Nortman, who we've
Speaker 1: sort of alluded to a couple of times, as you
Speaker 1: mentioned your partner and choose one of the founding investors
Speaker 1: of Angel City, you know there has been this, for
Speaker 1: lack of a better term, sort of this evolution of
Speaker 1: ownership groups, you know, sort of the types of investors,
Speaker 1: the types of owners who are coming in. And I
Speaker 1: know we've seen this in men's leagues as well. You know,
Speaker 1: Alex has seen this up close and personal in both
Speaker 1: the w and in the NBA. How do you see
Speaker 1: that at this moment and where does it go from
Speaker 1: here in terms of, you know, some original investors selling out,
Speaker 1: new investors coming in, Like what does it look like
Speaker 1: as you're sitting in those boardrooms.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I've been surprised at the pace that
Speaker 4: ownership groups have turned over in the NWSL and I
Speaker 4: think it'd be really interesting to see how that evolves
Speaker 4: in the WNBA. And I think, you know, it's really
Speaker 4: important to have the right owners around the table, Like
Speaker 4: I think that for us is table stakes of you know,
Speaker 4: jumping into a league. If you don't have people who
Speaker 4: are both have the ability to invest for growth, but
Speaker 4: are also the kinds of people that actually have conviction
Speaker 4: around the opportunity, I think you're really going to struggle.
Speaker 5: And so it's been great seeing owners coming around the table.
Speaker 4: And I think one of the other things it's been
Speaker 4: really exciting in the NWSL is you're getting people who
Speaker 4: are first time sports owners.
Speaker 5: So, you know, you alluded to Kara and her co.
Speaker 4: Founders Julie and Natalie co founded Angel City to you know,
Speaker 4: Angie and Chris Long in Kansas City You're just seeing
Speaker 4: really interesting new first time owners who are coming in
Speaker 4: and thinking differently and actually creating some of the most
Speaker 4: valuable franchises out there. And so I think the owners
Speaker 4: will be on the WMBA and on other places to
Speaker 4: think about how do you get different types of people
Speaker 4: who are going to come in and think differently that
Speaker 4: can sit alongside the existing ownership groups and collaborate to
Speaker 4: bring that diversity of.
Speaker 5: Thought to the table.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I want to stick with the NWSLF we can for
Speaker 1: a minute, because it feels like this league is at
Speaker 1: an exciting and also critical moment in its existence. This
Speaker 1: is the third go round, as you well know and
Speaker 1: as Alex knows at you know, a professional women's soccer league.
Speaker 1: You do have these new ownership groups coming in. What
Speaker 1: are the things in your mind, as someone who has
Speaker 1: literally invested in multiple teams here that need to happen
Speaker 1: to make sure this is sustainable and that basically this
Speaker 1: time it works.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we kind of talked a little bit about the
Speaker 4: ownership group side of it, and I think that really
Speaker 4: evolution has happened nicely. But I think the next phase
Speaker 4: of what needs to happen here and we're certainly starting
Speaker 4: to see it is getting the right management and operating
Speaker 4: teams around the table who actually can build and scale
Speaker 4: these franchises. And I think that probably looks like some
Speaker 4: of the top operators from the broader sports ecosystem, but
Speaker 4: it probably equally looks like great operators from startups and
Speaker 4: from media and real estate who can come in and
Speaker 4: really help with the many areas that we're needing to
Speaker 4: build all of these businesses rapidly after they've been really
Speaker 4: underinvested to this point. And you know, I was talking
Speaker 4: to an operator over at AFC and she said, you know,
Speaker 4: people come in with just sports experience. If you haven't,
Speaker 4: like started a scrappy startup, it might be hard to
Speaker 4: you know, to fit in in this space. So I think,
Speaker 4: you know, it takes a blend of backgrounds to really succeed.
Speaker 2: When you look at the investing landscape around women's sports,
Speaker 2: whether it's volleyball or others, is there places that we
Speaker 2: should be paying attention to that we're not right now?
Speaker 4: For US, soccer and basketball are most interesting because we
Speaker 4: think the leagues are strong, the sport is really global,
Speaker 4: high growth, and so for US that's probably where we're
Speaker 4: spending eighty percent of our time. But I think there's
Speaker 4: a lot of interesting things happening across the ecosystem. Probably
Speaker 4: the ones that we follow closest or golf, tennis, softball,
Speaker 4: and volleyball, like all of them are showing viewership numbers
Speaker 4: and the million plus across poor events, you're seeing startup
Speaker 4: leagues popping up that are well funded and with great operators.
Speaker 4: So I think those are probably some of the areas
Speaker 4: that we're spending a lot of time on. Yeah, I
Speaker 4: think there's a lot happening outside of that, and also
Speaker 4: I think takes a little bit of focus and depth
Speaker 4: of relationships as you jump from sport to sport, and.
Speaker 5: So we do try to be disciplined there too.
Speaker 1: So speaking of relationships, I know that there probably were
Speaker 1: some existing relationships around the league when you guys decided,
Speaker 1: because I believe, and keep me honest here, your first
Speaker 1: investment was in the Boston expansion and WSL team. Is
Speaker 1: that right exactly? Tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 1: Kara had the experience with Angel City. This was you know,
Speaker 1: a new group of I believe, you know, four core
Speaker 1: women coming together putting together the deal for a Boston
Speaker 1: expansion team. So this is a team that's going to be,
Speaker 1: you know, kicking off in twenty twenty six, so you
Speaker 1: know you've got some runway to get that figured out.
Speaker 1: There are questions about facilities, and it's Boston and all
Speaker 1: these different things. This is a place you know, well,
Speaker 1: you went to school there, you worked with with grouseback.
Speaker 1: So tell us about that deal because it just seems
Speaker 1: like a fascinating case studying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a really interesting line. And you know, it
Speaker 4: really started with where it often does when we're talking
Speaker 4: to groups, which is that we were just there providing
Speaker 4: advice and guidance from you know, what Kara and I
Speaker 4: had sort of seen in the investment ecosystem, what Kara
Speaker 4: had built with Angel City, and eventually they ended up
Speaker 4: winning the expansion bid and they said, hey, would you
Speaker 4: like to invest alongside of us? And so, you know,
Speaker 4: I think we have those conversations with lots of groups
Speaker 4: who were thinking about sort of expansions or broader investments
Speaker 4: in women's sports. Yeah, it's an incredible group. So Jennifer Epstein,
Speaker 4: the lead owner, her and her family are also co
Speaker 4: owners in the Celtics with my former partner Wi. So
Speaker 4: They were really close relationships there, and it's a group
Speaker 4: that has a lot of experience across you know, completing
Speaker 4: the grill estate projects in Boston, backing and building startups,
Speaker 4: building for women's focused nonprofits in the Boston area. So
Speaker 4: it's really a group that we felt like was super
Speaker 4: locked into the community and really high execution. So really
Speaker 4: incredible to partner with them, And I think we think
Speaker 4: the opportunity to build expansion teams is uniquely interesting because
Speaker 4: you know, you're starting from scratch and you're building the
Speaker 4: fan base from day one, and so you can really
Speaker 4: do it as you'd hope to, really, you know, jump
Speaker 4: off to a fast start.
Speaker 2: Jasmine, I want to start at the beginning where you
Speaker 2: mentioned your father as a retired NFL player, and you
Speaker 2: mentioned Wick, who's the general partner of the Boston Celtics.
Speaker 2: I would love to know who are some of the
Speaker 2: best mentors you've had in why.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 4: I feel like I have been very lucky to meet
Speaker 4: great mentors over the course of my career, maybe starting
Speaker 4: with some of the folks at the forty nine ers
Speaker 4: when I was working there, really close relationships with John
Speaker 4: and Jed York, the owners over there, and actually Prague Marathe,
Speaker 4: who had up a lot of their investing in salary
Speaker 4: cap work, was the one who connected me in Cara,
Speaker 4: So he was a big part of the origin of
Speaker 4: Monarch and has been a really close mentor. And yeah,
Speaker 4: Weick to this day remains a really strong mentor. I mean,
Speaker 4: I feel like the sports ecosystem is one where like
Speaker 4: relationships and network matter, and so having those kinds of
Speaker 4: people that are willing to get on the phone and
Speaker 4: call a head of a media company or ahead of
Speaker 4: a league or another owner to just really advocate for
Speaker 4: you or just really valuable relationships.
Speaker 2: So, Jasmine, I wanted to follow up with you on
Speaker 2: your answer about Jed York, the general partner of the
Speaker 2: forty nine ers, and Wick, general partner of the Celtics.
Speaker 3: You talk about their playbook.
Speaker 2: Is there one play from each one of those playbooks
Speaker 2: that you learned that you can attribute to some of
Speaker 2: your investors investments in the future.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, Jed and John York are really
Speaker 4: deep relationship people, and I remember them both, you know, saying,
Speaker 4: you know, I feel like sometimes sports execs they're trying
Speaker 4: to run to get the next deal done or whatever,
Speaker 4: but sometimes you need to slow down and actually just
Speaker 4: build relationships and that's actually what's going to pay off.
Speaker 4: And so I think that's so true in everything, but
Speaker 4: especially in women's sports, where it's like the strength of
Speaker 4: the network that we're really building while you know, spending
Speaker 4: all of our time thinking and talking about women's sports.
Speaker 4: I think that's you know, so core to our ability
Speaker 4: to help teams in leagues scale and really to be effective.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, I think from what I would probably
Speaker 4: take that, really finding and backing the right person is
Speaker 4: sort of core to every investment, and I know that's
Speaker 4: kind of everyone says that, But the way that he
Speaker 4: thinks about really building relationships, really understanding that someone's going
Speaker 4: to be, you know, a strong operator through thick and thin,
Speaker 4: and really like building and setting those expectations from the front,
Speaker 4: I think is one of those things that he's incredible at.
Speaker 4: And I definitely sort of take into all of the
Speaker 4: investments that I'm working.
Speaker 1: On so Jasmine, I know that Alex and I are
Speaker 1: both very interested in sort of like getting down into
Speaker 1: the nitty gritty of how you operate these teams. As
Speaker 1: a very hands on investor, when you think about the
Speaker 1: revenue streams, is the revenue mixed different you know from
Speaker 1: the perspective of like media rights and you know just
Speaker 1: the very simple like butts and seats and attendance, and
Speaker 1: like how do you think about that and is it
Speaker 1: different from other sports that were more familiar with and
Speaker 1: how does that evolve?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's interesting.
Speaker 4: You know, you look at an NFL team and you
Speaker 4: show up to start operating for the year, and it's like,
Speaker 4: you know, over half of the revenue is already locked
Speaker 4: in and distributions that are coming from the league, and
Speaker 4: that's very much not the situation that the NWSL or
Speaker 4: the WNBA are in. And so there's so much more
Speaker 4: sort of variability, i would say, from team to team
Speaker 4: and the ability to make an impact with those local
Speaker 4: revenue streams. And so I think given that dynamic, we
Speaker 4: think a lot about to your point, like where are
Speaker 4: you going to go to a market where you can
Speaker 4: build a really strong fan base that's going to show up,
Speaker 4: you're in and you're out, where you can actually deliver
Speaker 4: a premium and exciting experience so you can actually drive
Speaker 4: real to get revenue. And then where you can build
Speaker 4: deep brand relationships that create when when partner deals that
Speaker 4: can sort of support the business over time. So local
Speaker 4: revenues become so much more important, and I think it.
Speaker 5: Just requires a lot more execution as a result.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to move to a lightning round. It's
Speaker 1: five questions, so just answer them tight and we'll bounce
Speaker 1: it back and forth. So I'll start. What's the best
Speaker 1: piece of advice you've received? Could be from somebody we've
Speaker 1: already talked about on either deal making or business.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 4: It's just to always be learning, like optimizing on every
Speaker 4: decision on how do I how do I continue to
Speaker 4: learn more and engage with people to really aim to
Speaker 4: continue to learn.
Speaker 2: What's the best deal you've ever worked on?
Speaker 4: One of my favorites room best in business called quint Events,
Speaker 4: which runs vip for f one and the NBA among others,
Speaker 4: and incredible, incredible founding team to partner with.
Speaker 1: What's a deal you wish you'd been a part of.
Speaker 4: Wish I'd invested in women's sports a few years earlier
Speaker 4: before I probably could have raised the capital to do it.
Speaker 2: What is your hype song before a big meeting or negotiation?
Speaker 4: Ooh, probably something old school Beyonce, so maybe like crazy
Speaker 4: in love.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 1: What's one mistake that everyone should avoid in negotiations?
Speaker 4: I think thinking about it as a I win, you lose,
Speaker 4: rather than framing it is like how do we find
Speaker 4: the right win win opportunities?
Speaker 1: All Right, this has been really fun. I feel like
Speaker 1: it's speaking of learning. We learned a ton from you.
Speaker 1: I feel much smarter about the current state and the
Speaker 1: future of women's sports, especially best of luck to you
Speaker 1: and Takara and the rest of the team. Jasmine, Thank
Speaker 1: you so.
Speaker 5: Much, Thanks so much. Really fun conversation.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
Speaker 1: This episode was made by Victor eveyas Stacey Wong, Annamasarakus,
Speaker 1: and Lizzie phillip Arth. The music was made by Blake Maples,
Speaker 1: Brendan Francis. Neonham is our executive producer. Sage Fouman is
Speaker 1: the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. Additional support from Kelly Lafarier,
Speaker 1: Ashley Honig, Rachel Scaramzino, and Elena Los Angeles. If you
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