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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Hi everyone, welcome to

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Speaker 1: this episode of The Deal. I'm Jason Kelly alongside my

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Speaker 1: co host Alex Rodriguez. Coming up on the show, we're

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Speaker 1: going to check in with Jasmine Robinson. She's a founding

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Speaker 1: partner of Monarch Collective. They're a new and pretty novel fund.

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Speaker 1: They're completely focused on women's sports. So much to dive

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Speaker 1: into their alex. But before we get to that, I

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Speaker 1: want to check in with you. I'm looking at your background.

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Speaker 1: You are not my friend in Miami. You're in Tahoe

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Speaker 1: for a golf tournament, a big golf tournament. I know

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Speaker 1: you've been looking for it to tell me about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so John Miller, executive longtime executive for NBC was

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Speaker 2: kind enough to invite me. And Taho has always been

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Speaker 2: a tournament that I've always enjoyed watching from afar, but

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Speaker 2: it was always during the baseball season. But I remember

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Speaker 2: watching Michael Jordan's that Carey with a hole in one,

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Speaker 2: and you know Tony Romo. So I always said, if

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Speaker 2: I get an opportunity, I'll go, and sure enough, the

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Speaker 2: schedule worked out this year. I know Jason that we've

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Speaker 2: traded places now, because a couple of weeks ago you

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Speaker 2: were into this golf kick, I.

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Speaker 3: Was kind of laughing at you. Now you're laughing at me.

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Speaker 1: I'm laughing my ass off.

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Speaker 3: My goal is not.

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Speaker 2: To win or to you know, post a great score,

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Speaker 2: is really not to embarrass myself as much as possible.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that that is It's a very

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Speaker 1: novel goal. I have a lot of faith in you.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, this is no joke. I mean, these

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Speaker 1: are really good golfers. I bet it's a pretty tough course.

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Speaker 1: Give us a sense of like what it's all about

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Speaker 1: the because you mentioned there are a number of notable

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Speaker 1: people playing, but it gets from all over like media

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Speaker 1: world and business world and sports world.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I would say is the titans of sports

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Speaker 2: across every industry in sports, right from like the Jordans

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Speaker 2: of Steph Curry's of the world, Tom Brady's, Aaron Rodgers

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Speaker 2: and like so many names you would recognize as coming

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Speaker 2: here over the last twenty five years. And then you

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Speaker 2: have some executives across the NBC platform. And what I

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Speaker 2: like specifically about this is you get to play your

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Speaker 2: own ball, but you play your handicap, so I'm a

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Speaker 2: fifteen handicap, Jason, So if I shoot an eighty five,

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Speaker 2: maybe that's a net seventy. And you play Thursday and

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Speaker 2: Friday with an opportunity to advance a Saturday, chances are

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Speaker 2: I won't be playing on Saturday, but I'm going to

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Speaker 2: give it my best go.

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Speaker 1: I have to say I always assume that a highly

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Speaker 1: successful professional athlete would naturally be good at any sport,

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Speaker 1: including golf. But I think you're not as good as

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Speaker 1: maybe you thought you were going to be. Is that true?

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Speaker 1: Can I say that is your friend the reason?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you can say it as my friend, as

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Speaker 2: my foe, as anything you want. I've been called a

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Speaker 2: lot worse. I think I'm a friend. Absolutely, you're a

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Speaker 2: close friend. But that doesn't make me good golfer, Jason.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you the one thing that is so

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Speaker 2: hard for me, and I think one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: why pitchers and hockey players are so good and quarterbacks

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Speaker 2: is pitchers don't have to combat their baseball swing. You know,

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Speaker 2: for forty years I've been thinking about one thing is

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Speaker 2: really snapping my wrist as fast as possible. Wait wait,

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Speaker 2: wait in a snap? Well, if you do that in golf,

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Speaker 2: that's hell. So one of the things to talk about

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Speaker 2: in golf is really keeping a very still risk, which

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Speaker 2: is a contrarium move to what I've been doing for

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Speaker 2: the last forty years.

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Speaker 3: So that's what I have to fight.

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Speaker 2: And my biggest fight is inside fifty yards, like the

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Speaker 2: chipping and putting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, well, good luck. I'm sure you're going to

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Speaker 1: do great. I'm in LA and I'm headed today to

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Speaker 1: something that I'm excited to tell you about after the fact,

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Speaker 1: which is Uninterrupted, who obviously we know Everick Carter and

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Speaker 1: Lebron James. It is part of the spring Hill Group.

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Speaker 1: They are doing a film festival in Hollywood and it's

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Speaker 1: all about athletes telling stories. And one of the movies

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Speaker 1: that's gonna premiere I'm so pumped to see is about

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Speaker 1: Renee Montgomery. You know her as a fellow owner. She's

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Speaker 1: an owner of the Atlanta Dream and most notably she

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Speaker 1: played for the Land Dream until she didn't And the

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Speaker 1: reason she didn't she opted out in the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: season because of everything that was going on in the

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Speaker 1: country at that time and devoted herself to voting rights.

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Speaker 1: If you recall Kelly Leffler, who was then the owner

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Speaker 1: of the Atlanta Dream, had come out in a way

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Speaker 1: that was antithetical, I think it's fair to say to

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Speaker 1: a lot of the Black Lives Matter movement and a

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Speaker 1: lot of the protests that were going on, and the

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Dream led the way to essentially unseat her from

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Speaker 1: her senate seat, Kelly Leffler, and she lost to Raphael Warnock.

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Speaker 1: And so this movie tells the story of a lot

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Speaker 1: of that. So I can't wait to see it. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: very much a vibe that you and I both like

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Speaker 1: in terms of athletes, you being one of them telling

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Speaker 1: their own stories. So I'm psyched to see it, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to be great.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was remarkable, and I'm jealous.

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Speaker 2: I wish I was there with you, Jason, But you know,

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Speaker 2: I had an opportunity to spend some time with Renee

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Speaker 2: at a United Way Boys and Girls Club event that

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Speaker 2: we had, and she was wildly impressive and had so

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Speaker 2: much convictions. Ye And look, it's relatable to me because

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Speaker 2: we were at Ground zero in Minnesota, just a few

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Speaker 2: blocks away from Target where we play our home games,

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Speaker 2: with the timbles and the links, and that was ground zero, So,

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Speaker 2: you know, admirable that she took a position that she

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Speaker 2: really believes in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is very much in line with the

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Speaker 1: guests that we're going to talk about coming up. Jason

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Speaker 1: Robinson has herself gone all in on women's sports. This

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Speaker 1: is someone who has worked with other people that we know,

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Speaker 1: specifically with Grouseback, who is the majority owner of the

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Speaker 1: Boston Celtics. For now the different topic for another day

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Speaker 1: in terms of what is going to happen with the Celtics.

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Speaker 1: But she teamed up Jasmine did with Karen Nortman, who

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Speaker 1: is well known as one of the founding partners of

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Speaker 1: Angel City. They created a fun monarch collective that is

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Speaker 1: solely focused on women's sports. They've taken a couple stakes

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Speaker 1: in NWSL teams that's of course, the National Women's Soccer League.

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Speaker 1: They've been involved looking at some of what's going on

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Speaker 1: in the WNBA and just really investing heavily literally and

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Speaker 1: figuratively in women's sports.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a very exciting space. If you think

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Speaker 2: about the NBA teams, whether it's the Lakers, the next

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Speaker 2: Golden State. You're talking about the Giants, right, You're talking

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Speaker 2: about Google, Facebook, you know Microsoft and what they're trying

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Speaker 2: to do with their fund I think is more of

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Speaker 2: a starter mentality, right, you know, you can say women's sports,

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Speaker 2: even though they've been around for a long time, they're

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Speaker 2: starting to get real reo attraction, which is really exciting

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Speaker 2: and it makes the investment thesis very exciting, but it's

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Speaker 2: high risk, much higher rewards.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be interesting to talk to her at this

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Speaker 1: moment because one of the really interesting things for me

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Speaker 1: as a consumer of sports media, which I know you

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Speaker 1: are as well, is how much women's sports is finding

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Speaker 1: its way into the top headlines, whether it's on ESPN,

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Speaker 1: whether it's on the athletic So much attention is being paid,

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Speaker 1: which is wildly different from where were just a few

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Speaker 1: years ago. And when you think about the things that

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Speaker 1: have to happen to really make this business case real,

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Speaker 1: part of it is purely exposure. Chronicling it and exposing

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Speaker 1: it to you know, a broader audience is just really important.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, for you as an owner, for

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Speaker 1: Jasmine and her colleagues as owners, that's what's ultimately going

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Speaker 1: to make this a profitable business, I think is people

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Speaker 1: just paying attention.

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Speaker 3: On the consumer You said it best. They're ready for

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Speaker 3: the story. They're ready to.

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Speaker 2: Spend the hard earned money into women's sports, and we're

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Speaker 2: seeing it with the links. We're having record numbers and

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Speaker 2: attendance in viewership. Obviously, we're having a good year. We

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Speaker 2: have one for titles, which helps. But I'm really excited

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Speaker 2: to hear how she thinks about it. And anybody who's

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Speaker 2: out there thinking this is going to slow down, I

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Speaker 2: think they're wrong. I think this will have a compounding

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Speaker 2: effect with the consumer. With the quality, I think is

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Speaker 2: a flywheel that'll create even more talented players in the

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Speaker 2: future that are going to win in on this, because

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Speaker 2: as you celebrate the Kaitlyn Clarks and others, there's going

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Speaker 2: to be a twelve year old gal out there, someone

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Speaker 2: like my daughter.

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Speaker 3: Someone may be like our kids.

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Speaker 2: I would say, hey, I want to be the next

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Speaker 2: Kaitlyn Clark, and that's good for business totally.

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Speaker 1: And I think about this all the time. They're going

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Speaker 1: to be young women who say, not only I want

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Speaker 1: to be Kaitlyn Clark, but I want to be Jasmine

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Speaker 1: Robinson or I want to be Jess Gellman, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the people who have these positions of power in sports,

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Speaker 1: you know, as owners, as executives, et cetera. So let's

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Speaker 1: get to it, Jason Robinson. So here with us is

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Speaker 1: Jasmine Robinson. She's managing partner at Monarch Collective, an amazing

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Speaker 1: background that she's going to get into and talk to

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Speaker 1: us all about what Monarch are is up to and

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Speaker 1: women's sports in general. So, Jasmine, how do you introduce

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Speaker 1: yourself to the world?

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Speaker 5: Amazing? Yeah, excited for the conversation.

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Speaker 4: So I am the co founder and managing partner of

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Speaker 4: Monarch Collective, where the first fund focused exclusively on investing

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Speaker 4: in women's sports, and have been in the sports ecosystem

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Speaker 4: almost my whole career, so sports and investor, sports operator,

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Speaker 4: and also fun fact, daughter of an NFL athlete, and

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Speaker 4: so I think I feel like I've gotten the player perspective,

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Speaker 4: the owner perspective, and everything in between.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with Monarch because it's amazing that it took

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Speaker 1: as long for this to happen as it did in

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Speaker 1: terms of like a dedicated fund. But tell us about

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Speaker 1: the decision to start it and why now is the

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Speaker 1: right time for you and Kara you'r co founder.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it.

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Speaker 4: Both took a long time for this to happen. But

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Speaker 4: a lot of things happened really recently that I think

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Speaker 4: made it possible for us to actually kick off this fund.

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Speaker 4: Hard to even remember that it wasn't until twenty nineteen

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Speaker 4: that actually US sports leagues were really welcoming fund investors

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Speaker 4: into teams and leagues, and so that was obviously a

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Speaker 4: really important precursor. But then also I think it really

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Speaker 4: takes the market really buying into the thesis. And so

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Speaker 4: you know, I was a sports investor at this fun

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Speaker 4: called Causeway prior, and we looked at a bunch of

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Speaker 4: things in women's sports, and you know, there weren't that

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Speaker 4: many things that were of scale. And then I think

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Speaker 4: finally you started seeing proof points come onto the market,

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Speaker 4: and I think what my partner Kara co founded in

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Speaker 4: Angel City was certainly one of the big ones, but

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Speaker 4: many others around the market that finally you had a

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Speaker 4: few case studies to talk about when you go and

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Speaker 4: talk to institutional investors about why women's sports really makes

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Speaker 4: sense as an investment class. And I think when we

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Speaker 4: started our fundraising, we were right at the bleeding edge

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Speaker 4: of being able to get investors to buy into that

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Speaker 4: would go out and we could get everyone excited about

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Speaker 4: women's soccer, but then we talk about women's basketball and

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Speaker 4: people would be like, maybe we need to lower the

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Speaker 4: hoop to make it more interesting, or like, you know,

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Speaker 4: I just don't really think women's basketball is going anywhere.

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Speaker 4: And then a couple of months into the fundraise, the

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Speaker 4: NCAA numbers came out two years ago, and you know,

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Speaker 4: we stopped getting the question about why women's basketball was

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Speaker 4: interesting to us. So I think we time the market.

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Speaker 4: I think at the moment when institutional investors could hear

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Speaker 4: this message, but I certainly think the investment opportunity was

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Speaker 4: there long before.

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Speaker 2: So Jasmine, I'm really interested to know if there was

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Speaker 2: like an AHA moment for you, obviously Kalin Clark's and

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Speaker 2: AHA moment for the whole world, but you were ahead

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Speaker 2: of a curve. Can you tell us an example too,

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Speaker 2: when you just said, Okay, now I'm convinced, I'm resolute,

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Speaker 2: I'm going all in.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think it was a lot of really studying the

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Speaker 4: history of what made the NFL takeoff in the seventies

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Speaker 4: and the NBA takes off in the eighties. Like I

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Speaker 4: wrote papers on some of these topics when I was

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Speaker 4: at Harvard, it was just sort of fascinated by that history.

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Speaker 4: And so while it's a different set of circumstances that

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Speaker 4: made women's sports really pop up, it started to be

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Speaker 4: clear to me that, you know, the cultural moment was

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Speaker 4: really right for greater acceleration of fan adoption. And at

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Speaker 4: the same time, I think having invested in and diligenced,

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Speaker 4: you know, probably every emerging sports league that's come about

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Speaker 4: in the last five years, I had real conviction that

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Speaker 4: it takes both media companies and brands to be really

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Speaker 4: behind a sports proposition to really make the P and

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Speaker 4: L work and really make that sort of acceleration moment happen.

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Speaker 4: And so I think one of the big things for

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Speaker 4: me was going and talking to the folks at the

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Speaker 4: major media companies and brands just on wide ranging topics,

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Speaker 4: but it started to be that finally women's sports was

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Speaker 4: sort of a core strategy that they wanted to talk about,

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Speaker 4: and that to me was the Reil shift that made

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Speaker 4: me believe, this is the moment that it can really

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Speaker 4: take off.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about sort of translating that to the limited

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Speaker 1: partner community and sort of what those conversations were like,

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Speaker 1: because obviously, as we all know, like they're incredibly data driven,

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Speaker 1: they want commps, they want you know, every emerging fund

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Speaker 1: has its own challenges, but I wonder about those sorts

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Speaker 1: of conversations and how they evolved over time.

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Speaker 4: I think we had the real benefit fit of the

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Speaker 4: fact that there were groups like ARC doos out there

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Speaker 4: really educating the broader institutional investor market of why sports

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Speaker 4: is an interesting asset class to be investing in. And

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Speaker 4: all the folks at ARCTOS are great collaborators as we

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Speaker 4: think about this space, as well as many of the

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Speaker 4: other funds around. So I think it was great that

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Speaker 4: we'd go out to investors and many of them had

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Speaker 4: heard the ARC dose pitch before, so they kind of

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Speaker 4: got like why sports, and what we needed to help

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Speaker 4: educate them on was why women's sports.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to be clear, we're talking about ARCTOS,

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Speaker 1: the private equity firm. They were created to invest specifically

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Speaker 1: in sports teams and the sports ecosystem. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I think the other interesting element to this is, you know,

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Speaker 4: we have institutional investors in our LP base, but we

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Speaker 4: actually have a lot of individuals and more institutional family

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Speaker 4: offices as investors as well. And we also found people

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Speaker 4: that said, you know, I would have never really thought

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Speaker 4: about investing in sports, but the way that women's sports

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Speaker 4: can move topics of gender equity and racial equity forward

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Speaker 4: in really unique ways really speaks to me and is

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Speaker 4: sort of clear why this investment opportunity really resonates. And

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Speaker 4: so I think that's a big angle of it as well.

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Speaker 4: And so if you look across our LP base, two

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Speaker 4: thirds of them or either women or people from underrepresented backgrounds,

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Speaker 4: because I think people kind of really got that angle

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Speaker 4: of this story too, and why we feel like dynamics

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Speaker 4: of representation really are things that drive enterprise value in

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Speaker 4: actually building women's sports teams where you need to build

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Speaker 4: things that resonate with athletes and fan bases.

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Speaker 2: So, Jasmine, as you think about women's sports, one of

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Speaker 2: the challenges you and your partner, I'm sure had to

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Speaker 2: come across to Jason's point is the Trailing twelve, the

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Speaker 2: trailing twenty four thirty six. It's an argument that you

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Speaker 2: have to forecast to say, don't pay attention to the past,

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Speaker 2: pay attention to where we are.

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Speaker 3: Today and we're moving forward.

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Speaker 2: If you look at Mark Lazurie and Josh Harris, right,

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Speaker 2: they bought the Bucks and the Sixers. Lazurie with the

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Speaker 2: Bucks for on five hundred and fifty million, and Josh

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Speaker 2: Harris with the Sixers under three hundred. I think that'd

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Speaker 2: be the first one to admit if you fast forward

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Speaker 2: ten or twelve years, that those franchise wouldn't be worth

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Speaker 2: what they are today. So if we had that same

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Speaker 2: exercise with the WNBA, what do you think these teams

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Speaker 2: could be worth high end low end in ten to

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Speaker 2: twelve years from now.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a good question. I think you're spot on that.

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Speaker 4: A little bit of the problem is if you think

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Speaker 4: about what's happened over the last two years, you'll kind

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Speaker 4: of miss how quickly the growth is happening, like the

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Speaker 4: way ticket prices are moving, the way sponsorship's moving. I

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Speaker 4: think the really you know interesting things about driving returns

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Speaker 4: in women's sports is you know, you don't have to

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Speaker 4: forecast that these are going to become billion dollar businesses

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Speaker 4: to actually believe that there's a really strong return here.

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Speaker 4: You know, if you think you can make the case

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Speaker 4: that it's going to be something that's worth two hundred

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Speaker 4: and fifty or three hundred million dollars, you can get

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Speaker 4: into a lot of these assets and drive a great return. Now,

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Speaker 4: I think to do that it actually takes being real

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Speaker 4: hands on in collaborative partners about how you actually build

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Speaker 4: the fan base and how you sell sponsorship and how

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Speaker 4: you treat the athletes and sort of all of the

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Speaker 4: important things. But I think you can get there, and

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Speaker 4: so I believe pretty firmly that they'll be worth sort

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Speaker 4: of well north of those you know, few hundred million

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Speaker 4: dollar valuations. But I think that is really underwriteable today

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Speaker 4: just based on revenue where it is today, and you know,

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Speaker 4: even some of the just sort of ticketting and sponsorship

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Speaker 4: data that's out there from the NWSL and WNBA, from

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Speaker 4: the top performers.

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Speaker 1: You know, Jasmine, you mentioned arctos, And if we think

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Speaker 1: about sort of this growing universe of sports funds, you know,

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Speaker 1: you think about arctos, You think about you know, Dynasty

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Speaker 1: dial et cetera, or blew out. When you look at

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Speaker 1: sort of the addressable market as it were, or even

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Speaker 1: the kind of aperture through which you're looking is it

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Speaker 1: mostly team stakes, is it the entire ecosystem? Like what

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Speaker 1: are the most attractive and feasible investments that you're going

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Speaker 1: after as monarch.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so we're taking a very focused strategy. I think

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Speaker 4: there's going to be a lot of value created across

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Speaker 4: the ecosystem. But when we were setting out our strategy,

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Speaker 4: we really felt like there was this unique moment where

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Speaker 4: around the most mature sports teams, leagues, and then sets

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Speaker 4: of proprietary rights, there was really strong protected downside, but

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Speaker 4: where we felt like the upside really looked a lot

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Speaker 4: more like venture type returns. And so we felt like,

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Speaker 4: given that's where the market is today, that's really where

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Speaker 4: we want to focus. And so we've made three investments

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Speaker 4: in teams so far. We're deep in conversations around some

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Speaker 4: sort of league or more rights oriented opportunities, and so

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Speaker 4: that's really what it'll look like. And you know, we're

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Speaker 4: not trying to go and do fifty of these deals.

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Speaker 4: We want to do six or seven deals in this

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Speaker 4: fund that we think are the spaces where we're in

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Speaker 4: aligned ownership groups, where we feel like there's tons of

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Speaker 4: room for growth and where hopefully we can add value.

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Speaker 2: Is hands on investors, So jasmine, if you had two

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Speaker 2: examples as invested in a primary team in a primary

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Speaker 2: city like New York or LA and this business is

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Speaker 2: throwing off is actually negative cash flow five million dollars

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Speaker 2: versus a city and a secondary tertiary market is not

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Speaker 2: growing as fast. It may not be as popular, but

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Speaker 2: it's making five million dollars a year. How do you

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Speaker 2: think about those investments in which one would you pick?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Oh, that's a great question.

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Speaker 4: I guess I kind of think about sort of the

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Speaker 4: cash flow profile of teams really as like, if a

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Speaker 4: team's losing money, if that loss is actually high ROI

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Speaker 4: growth capital around you know, where where I think the

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Speaker 4: asset value is going to grow, then I would take

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Speaker 4: the team that was losing money, but in a larger market.

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Speaker 4: Like if I felt like that five million dollars as

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Speaker 4: actually an investment in building the fan base or upgrading

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Speaker 4: the practice facility or something that I felt really confident

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Speaker 4: was going to have a you know, three x plus

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Speaker 4: return on making that investment, then I think I'm fine

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Speaker 4: with these teams losing money. I think we're we're running

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Speaker 4: too is. I think, as with any business, there are

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Speaker 4: some of those losses that are driven by high ROI

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Speaker 4: growth opportunities, and then there are other cases where it's

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Speaker 4: actually a loss but it's not creating net value. In

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Speaker 4: as directive a way, and so we really try to

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Speaker 4: kind of measure it like that when we're thinking about it.

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Speaker 4: I think that being said, like you know, New York

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Speaker 4: and LA are incredible markets and probably ones you'd always

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Speaker 4: want to be in in any given league, but I

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Speaker 4: think there are real opportunities, depending on the sport, to

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Speaker 4: be in markets that are outside of that that might

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Speaker 4: be every bit as valuable just because of dynamics of

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Speaker 4: you know, use academies and what the pipeline is there

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Speaker 4: or what the fan base looks like in any given sports.

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Speaker 4: So I think there are certainly opportunities outside of those

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Speaker 4: cities too.

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Speaker 1: And what do you see, Jasmine when you when you

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Speaker 1: look across the ownership groups and Karen Nortman, who we've

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Speaker 1: sort of alluded to a couple of times, as you

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Speaker 1: mentioned your partner and choose one of the founding investors

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Speaker 1: of Angel City, you know there has been this, for

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Speaker 1: lack of a better term, sort of this evolution of

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Speaker 1: ownership groups, you know, sort of the types of investors,

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Speaker 1: the types of owners who are coming in. And I

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Speaker 1: know we've seen this in men's leagues as well. You know,

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Speaker 1: Alex has seen this up close and personal in both

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Speaker 1: the w and in the NBA. How do you see

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Speaker 1: that at this moment and where does it go from

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Speaker 1: here in terms of, you know, some original investors selling out,

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Speaker 1: new investors coming in, Like what does it look like

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Speaker 1: as you're sitting in those boardrooms.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I've been surprised at the pace that

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Speaker 4: ownership groups have turned over in the NWSL and I

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Speaker 4: think it'd be really interesting to see how that evolves

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Speaker 4: in the WNBA. And I think, you know, it's really

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Speaker 4: important to have the right owners around the table, Like

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Speaker 4: I think that for us is table stakes of you know,

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Speaker 4: jumping into a league. If you don't have people who

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Speaker 4: are both have the ability to invest for growth, but

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Speaker 4: are also the kinds of people that actually have conviction

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Speaker 4: around the opportunity, I think you're really going to struggle.

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Speaker 5: And so it's been great seeing owners coming around the table.

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Speaker 4: And I think one of the other things it's been

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Speaker 4: really exciting in the NWSL is you're getting people who

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Speaker 4: are first time sports owners.

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Speaker 5: So, you know, you alluded to Kara and her co.

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Speaker 4: Founders Julie and Natalie co founded Angel City to you know,

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Speaker 4: Angie and Chris Long in Kansas City You're just seeing

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Speaker 4: really interesting new first time owners who are coming in

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Speaker 4: and thinking differently and actually creating some of the most

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Speaker 4: valuable franchises out there. And so I think the owners

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Speaker 4: will be on the WMBA and on other places to

436
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 4: think about how do you get different types of people

437
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 4: who are going to come in and think differently that

438
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 4: can sit alongside the existing ownership groups and collaborate to

439
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:32,920
Speaker 4: bring that diversity of.

440
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:33,560
Speaker 5: Thought to the table.

441
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

442
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: I want to stick with the NWSLF we can for

443
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: a minute, because it feels like this league is at

444
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 1: an exciting and also critical moment in its existence. This

445
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: is the third go round, as you well know and

446
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 1: as Alex knows at you know, a professional women's soccer league.

447
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: You do have these new ownership groups coming in. What

448
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 1: are the things in your mind, as someone who has

449
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,320
Speaker 1: literally invested in multiple teams here that need to happen

450
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: to make sure this is sustainable and that basically this

451
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 1: time it works.

452
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, we kind of talked a little bit about the

453
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 4: ownership group side of it, and I think that really

454
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,399
Speaker 4: evolution has happened nicely. But I think the next phase

455
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 4: of what needs to happen here and we're certainly starting

456
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 4: to see it is getting the right management and operating

457
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 4: teams around the table who actually can build and scale

458
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 4: these franchises. And I think that probably looks like some

459
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 4: of the top operators from the broader sports ecosystem, but

460
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 4: it probably equally looks like great operators from startups and

461
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,359
Speaker 4: from media and real estate who can come in and

462
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 4: really help with the many areas that we're needing to

463
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 4: build all of these businesses rapidly after they've been really

464
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 4: underinvested to this point. And you know, I was talking

465
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 4: to an operator over at AFC and she said, you know,

466
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 4: people come in with just sports experience. If you haven't,

467
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 4: like started a scrappy startup, it might be hard to

468
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 4: you know, to fit in in this space. So I think,

469
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 4: you know, it takes a blend of backgrounds to really succeed.

470
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 2: When you look at the investing landscape around women's sports,

471
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,600
Speaker 2: whether it's volleyball or others, is there places that we

472
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: should be paying attention to that we're not right now?

473
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,480
Speaker 4: For US, soccer and basketball are most interesting because we

474
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,200
Speaker 4: think the leagues are strong, the sport is really global,

475
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 4: high growth, and so for US that's probably where we're

476
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 4: spending eighty percent of our time. But I think there's

477
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 4: a lot of interesting things happening across the ecosystem. Probably

478
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 4: the ones that we follow closest or golf, tennis, softball,

479
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 4: and volleyball, like all of them are showing viewership numbers

480
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 4: and the million plus across poor events, you're seeing startup

481
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 4: leagues popping up that are well funded and with great operators.

482
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 4: So I think those are probably some of the areas

483
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 4: that we're spending a lot of time on. Yeah, I

484
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 4: think there's a lot happening outside of that, and also

485
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 4: I think takes a little bit of focus and depth

486
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 4: of relationships as you jump from sport to sport, and.

487
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 5: So we do try to be disciplined there too.

488
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,479
Speaker 1: So speaking of relationships, I know that there probably were

489
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 1: some existing relationships around the league when you guys decided,

490
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 1: because I believe, and keep me honest here, your first

491
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 1: investment was in the Boston expansion and WSL team. Is

492
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 1: that right exactly? Tell us a little bit about that.

493
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,479
Speaker 1: Kara had the experience with Angel City. This was you know,

494
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: a new group of I believe, you know, four core

495
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: women coming together putting together the deal for a Boston

496
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 1: expansion team. So this is a team that's going to be,

497
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,439
Speaker 1: you know, kicking off in twenty twenty six, so you

498
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: know you've got some runway to get that figured out.

499
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 1: There are questions about facilities, and it's Boston and all

500
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: these different things. This is a place you know, well,

501
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: you went to school there, you worked with with grouseback.

502
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: So tell us about that deal because it just seems

503
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: like a fascinating case studying.

504
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a really interesting line. And you know, it

505
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 4: really started with where it often does when we're talking

506
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 4: to groups, which is that we were just there providing

507
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 4: advice and guidance from you know, what Kara and I

508
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 4: had sort of seen in the investment ecosystem, what Kara

509
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,119
Speaker 4: had built with Angel City, and eventually they ended up

510
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 4: winning the expansion bid and they said, hey, would you

511
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 4: like to invest alongside of us? And so, you know,

512
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 4: I think we have those conversations with lots of groups

513
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 4: who were thinking about sort of expansions or broader investments

514
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 4: in women's sports. Yeah, it's an incredible group. So Jennifer Epstein,

515
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 4: the lead owner, her and her family are also co

516
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 4: owners in the Celtics with my former partner Wi. So

517
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 4: They were really close relationships there, and it's a group

518
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 4: that has a lot of experience across you know, completing

519
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 4: the grill estate projects in Boston, backing and building startups,

520
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 4: building for women's focused nonprofits in the Boston area. So

521
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 4: it's really a group that we felt like was super

522
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 4: locked into the community and really high execution. So really

523
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 4: incredible to partner with them, And I think we think

524
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 4: the opportunity to build expansion teams is uniquely interesting because

525
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 4: you know, you're starting from scratch and you're building the

526
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 4: fan base from day one, and so you can really

527
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 4: do it as you'd hope to, really, you know, jump

528
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 4: off to a fast start.

529
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 2: Jasmine, I want to start at the beginning where you

530
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 2: mentioned your father as a retired NFL player, and you

531
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 2: mentioned Wick, who's the general partner of the Boston Celtics.

532
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 2: I would love to know who are some of the

533
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 2: best mentors you've had in why.

534
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great question.

535
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 4: I feel like I have been very lucky to meet

536
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 4: great mentors over the course of my career, maybe starting

537
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 4: with some of the folks at the forty nine ers

538
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 4: when I was working there, really close relationships with John

539
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 4: and Jed York, the owners over there, and actually Prague Marathe,

540
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 4: who had up a lot of their investing in salary

541
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 4: cap work, was the one who connected me in Cara,

542
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 4: So he was a big part of the origin of

543
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 4: Monarch and has been a really close mentor. And yeah,

544
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 4: Weick to this day remains a really strong mentor. I mean,

545
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 4: I feel like the sports ecosystem is one where like

546
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: relationships and network matter, and so having those kinds of

547
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 4: people that are willing to get on the phone and

548
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 4: call a head of a media company or ahead of

549
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 4: a league or another owner to just really advocate for

550
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 4: you or just really valuable relationships.

551
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: So, Jasmine, I wanted to follow up with you on

552
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 2: your answer about Jed York, the general partner of the

553
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 2: forty nine ers, and Wick, general partner of the Celtics.

554
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 3: You talk about their playbook.

555
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 2: Is there one play from each one of those playbooks

556
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: that you learned that you can attribute to some of

557
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 2: your investors investments in the future.

558
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a great question.

559
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 4: I think, you know, Jed and John York are really

560
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 4: deep relationship people, and I remember them both, you know, saying,

561
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 4: you know, I feel like sometimes sports execs they're trying

562
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 4: to run to get the next deal done or whatever,

563
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 4: but sometimes you need to slow down and actually just

564
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 4: build relationships and that's actually what's going to pay off.

565
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 4: And so I think that's so true in everything, but

566
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 4: especially in women's sports, where it's like the strength of

567
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 4: the network that we're really building while you know, spending

568
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 4: all of our time thinking and talking about women's sports.

569
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 4: I think that's you know, so core to our ability

570
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 4: to help teams in leagues scale and really to be effective.

571
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 4: And then yeah, I think from what I would probably

572
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 4: take that, really finding and backing the right person is

573
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 4: sort of core to every investment, and I know that's

574
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 4: kind of everyone says that, But the way that he

575
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 4: thinks about really building relationships, really understanding that someone's going

576
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 4: to be, you know, a strong operator through thick and thin,

577
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 4: and really like building and setting those expectations from the front,

578
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 4: I think is one of those things that he's incredible at.

579
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 4: And I definitely sort of take into all of the

580
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 4: investments that I'm working.

581
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: On so Jasmine, I know that Alex and I are

582
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: both very interested in sort of like getting down into

583
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: the nitty gritty of how you operate these teams. As

584
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: a very hands on investor, when you think about the

585
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: revenue streams, is the revenue mixed different you know from

586
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: the perspective of like media rights and you know just

587
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: the very simple like butts and seats and attendance, and

588
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: like how do you think about that and is it

589
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: different from other sports that were more familiar with and

590
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: how does that evolve?

591
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's interesting.

592
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 4: You know, you look at an NFL team and you

593
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 4: show up to start operating for the year, and it's like,

594
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 4: you know, over half of the revenue is already locked

595
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 4: in and distributions that are coming from the league, and

596
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 4: that's very much not the situation that the NWSL or

597
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 4: the WNBA are in. And so there's so much more

598
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 4: sort of variability, i would say, from team to team

599
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 4: and the ability to make an impact with those local

600
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 4: revenue streams. And so I think given that dynamic, we

601
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 4: think a lot about to your point, like where are

602
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: you going to go to a market where you can

603
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 4: build a really strong fan base that's going to show up,

604
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 4: you're in and you're out, where you can actually deliver

605
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 4: a premium and exciting experience so you can actually drive

606
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 4: real to get revenue. And then where you can build

607
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 4: deep brand relationships that create when when partner deals that

608
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 4: can sort of support the business over time. So local

609
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 4: revenues become so much more important, and I think it.

610
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 5: Just requires a lot more execution as a result.

611
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to move to a lightning round. It's

612
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: five questions, so just answer them tight and we'll bounce

613
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: it back and forth. So I'll start. What's the best

614
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: piece of advice you've received? Could be from somebody we've

615
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: already talked about on either deal making or business.

616
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think.

617
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 4: It's just to always be learning, like optimizing on every

618
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 4: decision on how do I how do I continue to

619
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 4: learn more and engage with people to really aim to

620
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 4: continue to learn.

621
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 2: What's the best deal you've ever worked on?

622
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 4: One of my favorites room best in business called quint Events,

623
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 4: which runs vip for f one and the NBA among others,

624
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: and incredible, incredible founding team to partner with.

625
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: What's a deal you wish you'd been a part of.

626
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 4: Wish I'd invested in women's sports a few years earlier

627
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 4: before I probably could have raised the capital to do it.

628
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 2: What is your hype song before a big meeting or negotiation?

629
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 4: Ooh, probably something old school Beyonce, so maybe like crazy

630
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 4: in love.

631
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: That's great.

632
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: What's one mistake that everyone should avoid in negotiations?

633
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 4: I think thinking about it as a I win, you lose,

634
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 4: rather than framing it is like how do we find

635
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 4: the right win win opportunities?

636
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: All Right, this has been really fun. I feel like

637
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: it's speaking of learning. We learned a ton from you.

638
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: I feel much smarter about the current state and the

639
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: future of women's sports, especially best of luck to you

640
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: and Takara and the rest of the team. Jasmine, Thank

641
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 1: you so.

642
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 5: Much, Thanks so much. Really fun conversation.

643
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 3: Thank you.

644
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 1: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.

645
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: This episode was made by Victor eveyas Stacey Wong, Annamasarakus,

646
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: and Lizzie phillip Arth. The music was made by Blake Maples,

647
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: Brendan Francis. Neonham is our executive producer. Sage Fouman is

648
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. Additional support from Kelly Lafarier,

649
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: Ashley Honig, Rachel Scaramzino, and Elena Los Angeles. If you

650
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: have a minute, subscribe, rate and review our show. It'll

651
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: help other listeners find us, Thanks so much for listening,

652
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: See you next time.