1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Previously on Death and Deceit in Alliance. 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 2: Spent a lot of time on that, and I guess 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,280 Speaker 2: one question is three hundred dollars to murder a woman 4 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 2: in cold blood? 5 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 3: The reason David Thorne is sitting in jail right now 6 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 3: is someone that you acknowledge as a fucking liar. 7 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 2: I know that the allegations are out there that even 8 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: some in the police force were taking advantage of Yvonne's services. 9 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 4: If that's in fact what was happening. 10 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 3: There's a full blown declaration that they went after three 11 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 3: friends of David's. Did they approached first and tried to 12 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 3: coerce them into testifying against David. There are things that 13 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 3: make you say, well, why is he staying at a 14 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 3: freaking hotel in town that night? 15 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: You know, right off the bat, A couple of things 16 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: that raised my eyebrows are the knife and the pants. 17 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: How did Joe lead them to the circumstances? And Joe 18 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: did lead them there, then that's a big deal. 19 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: This is death and Deceit and Alliance a real time 20 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: investigation into whether David Thorne killed Yvonne. I'm Maggie Freeling. 21 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 1: After the jury came back in January two thousand with 22 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: a guilty verdict against David Thorn. His grandfather tried to 23 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: sound calm. The truth will come out sooner or later, 24 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: he told the grandson he'd raised as guards led David 25 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 1: Thorn away to prison, but David Kazisko's claim was a facade. 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: Outside of the courtroom, Kazisko started to shake with anger. 27 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: His face went red when he saw Detective Lloyd bud Sampson, 28 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 1: one of the cops whose testimony had condemned David for life. 29 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: Kazisko told an Akron Bakrin Journal reporter quote, there's the 30 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: one who made a fool out of himself on the stand, 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: and they believed him. Now. I can't ask Kazisko his 32 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 1: thoughts because he died in twenty fifteen, but to me, 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: it seems like he wanted to have David's bad but 34 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: knew deep down that it was going to take a 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: lot more than just the truth to free David. And 36 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: twenty one years later, I think he's right. If David 37 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: is ever going to be released from prison, it won't 38 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: be because his supporters prove he didn't kill his girlfriend, 39 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: Yvonne Lane. It'll be because we figure out who actually did. 40 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: When I met up in Ohio with John Harden and 41 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: Danny Waxler, the investigators for Proclaimed Justice. One of the 42 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: first things we did was try to rule in or 43 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: out our people of interest in the case. The guys 44 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: didn't start with Joe right away. His story has changed 45 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: so many times it's hard to know what to believe. 46 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: They decided to reach out to him later and gather 47 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: as much information about the case as possible before trying 48 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 1: to talk to him. Plus the word and not Joe's 49 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: prison denied our visitation request. Speaking with Joe was going 50 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: to be harder than we expected, so we started with 51 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: Rose Moore and Chris Campbell, allegedly the people who Joe 52 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: told he was going to murder someone that night. But 53 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: as you heard last episode, we didn't get anything new, 54 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: so we moved on to the others on our list, 55 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: starting with Jim, the neighbor who was the last known 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: person to see Yvonne just before her murder, if the 57 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: coroner's correct, around five thirty pm. The coroner's window for 58 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: time of death was sometime after seven pm March thirty. First, Remember, 59 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: Jim said he went over to see the puppies that 60 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: Yvonne was selling, although it's unclear if he ever did 61 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: go inside the house to see them after that. Jim 62 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: never had a particularly solid alibi for the time after 63 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: five point thirty. He said he went on a bike 64 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: ride after leaving Yvonne's house and then was at work 65 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: by ten pm, But was he actually on a bike ride. 66 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: That would have been hard to confirm back in nineteen 67 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: ninety nine, and it's straight up impossible now. So that 68 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: leaves quite a gap of time from five point thirty 69 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: to ten pm unaccounted for. And there's also Yvon's four 70 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: year old Vinnie saying Josh, Jimmy or Jeremy pushed Mommy. 71 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: The kids knew Jim since he was in the neighborhood 72 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,119 Speaker 1: and they were always running in and out of his yard. 73 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: We don't know if Jim was looked at as a 74 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: possible suspect by detectives William Mucklow and Bud Sampson, yet 75 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: it does seem they found him interesting enough to fingerprint 76 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: and compare to the partial print found on the knife 77 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: blade matching Yvonne's kitchen set. The knife found down the street, 78 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: not the lock blade pocket knife that Joe said was 79 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: the murder weapon. The print on the kitchen knife didn't 80 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 1: match Jim. However, it begs the question did anyone think 81 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: Jim might have been involved? If the police went as 82 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: far as to fingerprint him, it's not likely they were 83 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: unting everyone. Some people closest to Yvonne were never printed. 84 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: But Jim, the neighbor who was the last known person 85 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: to see Yvonne alive, was, so we figured it was 86 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:20,119 Speaker 1: time to talk to him. Fortunately, Jim was easy to find. Yeah, 87 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: he's still living in the same house that touches the 88 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: yard of nine sixteen Divine, the home where Yvonne was murdered. 89 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: When we first went over to Jim's, his. 90 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:35,159 Speaker 3: Wife answered they. 91 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 1: Asked to speak with Jim. 92 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 3: We were hoping we could speak to him and kind 93 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 3: of yeah. 94 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: Oh, we could do the morning too, that would be fine. 95 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: So we tried him in the morning. 96 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, because we can't make him. 97 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 5: Answer the door. 98 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: As John and Danny walked away, I. 99 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 4: Don't want to talk about that. That happened over to 100 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 4: go and as far as I'm. 101 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: Concerned that it's out a note, Yes, sir, I don't 102 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 2: know if you if your wife told you who we are, 103 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 2: But we were just hoping for just a few minutes. 104 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 1: They tell him who they are and that they're reinvestigating 105 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: the Yvonne Lane murder. 106 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 6: There was a lady that came here years ago and 107 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 6: I talked to her, and I feel that with that 108 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 6: should suffice. I mean, that was like twenty years ago. 109 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 6: That probably I don't know, it's I don't know, it's 110 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 6: twenty years befo. 111 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: She's talking about Sue coming to see him almost two 112 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: decades ago. 113 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 6: So I really don't want to talk about it any 114 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 6: further than that, Okay, I mean she was to me. 115 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 6: I thought she was a nice person, and I don't 116 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 6: you know, if she was a nice neighbor, you know 117 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 6: that people seem to get along with her here, and 118 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 6: so beyond that point, I don't want. 119 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 4: To talk about it. It's like it was. I was 120 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,599 Speaker 4: upset about it at the time. Yeah, sure, and you 121 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 4: know she was. She was nice to me, and that's 122 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:48,919 Speaker 4: all I know. 123 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: So yeah, we you know, we were just hoping for 124 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: a couple of minutes. 125 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 3: One of the toughest things is that I think that 126 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 3: lady that came to visit you, when they give us 127 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: information just because because they said this this or this 128 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 3: or this, we have to kind of go validated, like 129 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: I thought bad enough. No, I get that, and if 130 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 3: we didn't at least speak to you, we would have 131 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: failed in doing what we're trying to do, which is 132 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 3: try and say, hey, who was there, who could possibly 133 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 3: know something? If David's where he belongs. David's where he belongs. 134 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: But we're going to give him a shot and see 135 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: if there's credible information that maybe they got it wrong. 136 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: Jim says he doesn't want to talk again, but Danny 137 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: and John keep going. 138 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 3: I guess she had puppies or something at the time. 139 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 4: Yes, she had puppies at the time, And. 140 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 3: That were you helping with the kids at all? Because 141 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: I read something about Preston was in your tree or something. 142 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 6: Preston cleaned my antenna, and I told her he cleanned 143 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 6: my antenna, and because I was real worried about him 144 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 6: climbing my antenna. 145 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: And despite not wanting to talk, Jim keeps going. 146 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 6: The only thing I can tell you was that day. 147 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 6: And this is the most bizarre thing, is it It 148 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 6: was so dog gone. I mean it was like there 149 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 6: was no cars going down the street. I didn't see 150 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 6: anybody walk in the streets. And that's What strikes me 151 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 6: strange is why you would think that it was a 152 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 6: nice and beautiful spring day. No cars, nothing, nothing. I 153 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 6: didn't see anything. I'm kind of like the non observant 154 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 6: of the non observant. I mean, I closed my curtains 155 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 6: at night. I you know, I work midnight shift at 156 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 6: that time, so I really don't you know, I don't 157 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 6: know much. 158 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 4: Of anything that went on over there. Like I said, 159 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 4: I felt bad about it. 160 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 6: I really don't want to talk about it beyond this 161 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 6: point because I because I worked their shift and that's 162 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 6: all I pretty much. 163 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm so dog got tired, you know. 164 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 6: They you know, I really don't know what's going on 165 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 6: because I, like I said, I went to work and 166 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 6: then next day I find out something that I don't 167 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 6: even know what's going on. 168 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, you're an officer that lived near here. 169 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 5: In one of these houses. 170 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 6: I don't really want to get into all that. I mean, 171 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 6: like I said, this is the end of this conversation. 172 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 6: I mean, I feel like I've shared. 173 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 4: Enough with you. Yeah, I just want to I don't 174 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 4: want to think about it at further. 175 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 6: I don't want to relive this. I want to just 176 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 6: put it behind me. She's a nice person and I 177 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 6: just want to put it behind you. 178 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 4: I want to. 179 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: Forget it, but they tried to continue. 180 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: I know you've got family and law enforcement, right, Yes, 181 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 3: mister Jenkins is a captain there and I know that sometimes. 182 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,959 Speaker 4: Well, hey, I gotta go. You guys have a great day. 183 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Jim. 184 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: That was it. I'm surprised you opened the door. 185 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 3: If he was going to say, is we were walking away, 186 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 3: but he probably thought they're going to keep coming. 187 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, nervous little fucker. 188 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a nervous fucker. 189 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 3: But I'm not going to talk about you get him 190 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 3: to the porch. 191 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 4: You got got a little bit out of him. 192 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, Jim didn't give them anything particularly useful from that 193 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: brief interaction, but just seeing him and the kind of 194 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: person he was helped them form an opinion. He didn't 195 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: jump out as an obvious suspect. The reason I keep 196 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: bringing up how brutal the crime is is because it 197 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: seems whoever did this had an incredible amount of rage 198 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: and anger towards Yvonne, someone who is likely known to 199 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,079 Speaker 1: have a violent history, and Jim doesn't. And we couldn't 200 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: think of any reason he'd violently want to kill Yvonne. 201 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: So the guys moved Jim to the bottom of the 202 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: list for now and went on to the next best 203 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: person of interest, someone Vinnie may have named. 204 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 2: Hi, how are you? We're looking for Jeremy. Does he 205 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: live here? He does not? Okay, he did? 206 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 1: Okay? 207 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 2: Are you do you know him? 208 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: Very roughly? 209 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: Okay? Do you have any idea where he moved to? 210 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: Okay, Like Chris Campbell, Jeremy seemed like he was going 211 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: to be hard to find now. If you remember, Jeremy 212 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: was the boyfriend of Linda McLaughlin and Linda was the 213 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: mother of Eric Cameron, who was the father of three 214 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: of Yvonne's children. Those three kids include Vinnie, who had 215 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: special needs and lived with Linda rather than Yvonne, and 216 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: there was tension between the two women because of this. 217 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: And I know this is a complicated cast, but the 218 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: gist is that Jeremy it was something like a grandfather 219 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: to Vinnie during this time period, or maybe even a father. 220 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: Jeremy it was in his mid forties at the time, 221 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: and he was at Linda's house almost every day and 222 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: he helped with raising Vinnie. 223 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: Hi, how are you goodhead looking? For Jeremy. 224 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 5: Yeah, that's local. Jeremy. 225 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: Is he here? 226 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 4: You don't let me he's in his name, brother, what Jeremy. 227 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: The woman we found at this address is Jeremy's sister 228 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: who said she had not seen him in three years. 229 00:11:58,600 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 5: Rather do men. 230 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: Decent. 231 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 7: I tried to help. He lived here, and I knew 232 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 7: there was something wrong. I said, Jeremy, what is wrong? 233 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 7: Are you on drugs? He said, I'm not doing it here. 234 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 7: I said, I'm not gonna be the one. Fine dad, 235 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 7: you gotta live. 236 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was the last time you saw him. 237 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 7: Wow, came by one time, threatened to flip my throat. 238 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 2: Did you ever know of him being violent? 239 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 3: Okay? Was that a weird statement to make, because that's exactly. 240 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 2: How the young girl was guilting. 241 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 6: Throat was slipp I think that's that was just the 242 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 6: drugs talking. 243 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 2: It sounds like he's probably burned a few bridges over 244 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 2: the years. Okay, had a car. 245 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 7: I knew he was in. 246 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 4: Fire fone car. We just left there, yep. Obviously. 247 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's. 248 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 4: All the actions turned into these days. 249 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 3: Well, thank you for your time, and again, if he surfaces, 250 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 3: were put an alert out to if you see Jeremy had 251 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: to call these guys. 252 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 5: We greatly. 253 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, thank you very much. I appreciate y'all's time. 254 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 4: All right, sorry to. 255 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,679 Speaker 1: We had hit every address we had for Jeremy and 256 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: he wasn't at any but there were two phone numbers 257 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: for him. One wasn't him and the other looked fake, 258 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: but we tried it anyway. 259 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 2: Hello, Yes, I'm trying to reach Jeremy. Petty. 260 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 4: Is this Jeremy you have? 261 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 3: Do you have any free time to talk with us? 262 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:47,199 Speaker 3: A bath weekly? Okay? 263 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 2: What's your address? 264 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: And we found him the fake numbers. 265 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 2: The one, the one, three, four, boss seven. 266 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: Holy shit, we found. 267 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 4: Him, My god. 268 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: We found Jeremy living in Akron, Ohio, in a dilapidated 269 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: house on a dirt road behind a U haul facility. 270 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: Hey, Jeremy, how are you? 271 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: Danny had a plastic bag in his hand, and Jeremy 272 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 1: asked what was in it? 273 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 4: Oh, and I was sick. 274 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 3: The kid always got chicken noodle soup and saltines, nickers 275 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 3: and gatoraing. 276 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 6: A little better. 277 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm John and that's Danny. 278 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 6: Oh. 279 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 4: Claim justice. 280 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 3: We're an innocent project and we've been asked to look 281 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 3: into David's. 282 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 5: Case and Dan's still in prite. 283 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: He is, Yeah, he's in for live as usual. John 284 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: and Danny explained that they're looking into David's case to 285 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: find out if he's actually innocent. 286 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 2: So that's what we're doing, is we came up from 287 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: Austin yesterday and uh, just you know, talking to folks 288 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: who knew everybody at the time. 289 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: Jeremy said Yvonne was his best friend. Now remember we 290 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: knew they were close. Yvon would go to Linda's often 291 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 1: to see Vinnie, who was living with Linda and Jeremy. 292 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: Jeremy is also interesting because, like Preston, another of Yvonne's 293 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: sons said, whoever killed his mom knew Vinnie because Vinnie 294 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: was taken care of. He'd been dressed as though someone 295 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: had started getting him ready for the day, and Vinnie 296 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: couldn't dress himself, and he normally slept in his diaper, 297 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: which Preston told us he was in when he went 298 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: to bed, and to the guys, Jeremy seemed like a 299 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: really good person of interest. Yvonne had just taken Vinnie 300 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: back to her home a few days before the murder, 301 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: and Linda told Sue that Jeremy was really upset about that. 302 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: I should note Jeremy's not well. He's dying of cancer, 303 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: and honestly, we're lucky we caught him when we did, because, 304 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: based on his age sixty for an advanced condition, this 305 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: could be the last time anyone speaks to him about 306 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: Yvonne or the case. 307 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 2: So what tell me about vonn? 308 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 5: I mean, so that's we just came close because, uh, 309 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 5: because of the kid. 310 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: Remember Jeremy and Eric's mom, Linda were taking care of Vinnie. 311 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 5: The kids we see a long great I had thirteen 312 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 5: of them. 313 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: You have thirteen of them. 314 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 4: By the same. 315 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 5: How did you know her? I mean, how did you 316 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 5: meet her? 317 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 8: You said earlier she was your best friend. 318 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 9: Yeah, ended up Linda and Eric and it's start coming 319 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 9: home in once he had one one kid. 320 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: Of course, Bennie took right to me, Jeremy says. When 321 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: Yvonne brought Vinnie over, Vinnie took right to him. 322 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 3: So was that friendship based just on Vinnie or were 323 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 3: you and her? 324 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 4: Did y'all have your time together too? 325 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 5: Were we in? You know, you talk to me about 326 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 5: what going on. 327 00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 10: Eric. 328 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: Jeremy made very ar that he and Yvonne had a 329 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: platonic relationship. 330 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 9: Contrary to belief a man hand hand Clayton right being 331 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 9: sexually ma right on. 332 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: In fact, he said he had only been to her 333 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 1: house two times, but both times with Linda. Jeremy and 334 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: Yvonne would only hang out at Linda's house, usually in 335 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: the kitchen at the table talking and doing drugs. 336 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 9: Crazy. 337 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 5: We was. 338 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 9: We would pull out a bow's hands on the mars 339 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 9: and would sit down at the kicking table at the 340 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 9: house on the dynamo and uh with tell beer things, 341 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 9: tell beer, see what passed out? 342 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 5: Or you know back what who pass up? Or she 343 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 5: just popping bills from? 344 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, So where would you guys get the drugs from? 345 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: I mean, does she have somebody that she would get 346 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: drugs from? 347 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 5: That of course like a legally. 348 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: If you couldn't make that out, He said he got 349 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: his legally from the VA. Remember the psychic's prediction the 350 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: killer had been in the military. Jeremy is a veteran. 351 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: And remember the psychic also said the killer had a 352 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: cross tattoo. Jeremy has a cross on his upper arm. 353 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know who it was she was getting 354 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 2: drugs from? 355 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: John and Danny were trying to see if there was 356 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: a connection to the cops and the drug scene that 357 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 1: Jeremy knew about. He said no. Then they asked Jeremy 358 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: if the police ever questioned him. 359 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 9: Best came through Donald. 360 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: So, even though there's no record of it, they did 361 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: look into Jeremy allegedly. In fact, his prints were also 362 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: collected on April twentieth and tested against the same kitchen knife. 363 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: Jim's were no match, and if the police were doing 364 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: their job, they would have also checked his alibi. Jeremy 365 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: said he was working at a McDonald's in Hartville that night. 366 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: Hartville is about twenty minutes from Alliance. If he did 367 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: kill Yvon, Jeremy would have had to leave work during 368 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: his shift, drive twenty minutes to her house, kill her, 369 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: dress Vinnie, and drive back. He would probably have been 370 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: gone from work for over an hour and someone would 371 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: have noticed. Assuming the police did their job, they checked 372 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: his time cards when they showed up at McDonald's that day. 373 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: And one more thing, Jeremy didn't drive. Linda said she 374 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: picked him up that night. In fact, it seems like 375 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: Jeremy still doesn't drive. His sister told us she'd see 376 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: him walking everywhere. John and Danny asked him straight up. 377 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: You weren't there that night, Your DNA would not be 378 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 2: on her clothes at all, had no involvement whatsoever. 379 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 9: Okay. 380 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, And from talking to him, he seemed to really 381 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: care about Yvonne a lot. 382 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 4: And obviously this is. 383 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,679 Speaker 3: A little personal, but I'm just curious of the emotional 384 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 3: effect that Yvonne's death had on you. 385 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 5: Oh it dropped me. Yeah, it's somebody that I could 386 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 5: talk to you and talk to me and be Uh 387 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 5: at that point I'd be open about for him. Not personal, 388 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 5: no will it could volve in anything like that. But uh, 389 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 5: did she ever confide in you that she felt like 390 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 5: she might have upset somebody that could have could hurt her. 391 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 5: You know, she was never a great never paid anybody 392 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 5: or anything to me that time and time again. 393 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,440 Speaker 9: One thing I do know about Yvonne show me back down. 394 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: Jeremy talked about how she was a confident, composed person, 395 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 1: but in her last days, he said he noticed a change. Yeah, 396 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: Jeremy said, four days before the murder, she came to 397 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: Linda's house and was in a rush. He said, that 398 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: was unusual. 399 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 4: You could just tell something was wrong that day. 400 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: I'm never Jary never, he said. She was frantic dropping 401 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: the kids off. She told him she was going to 402 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: an appointment, and Jeremy figured he talked to her later 403 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 1: about it, but that never happened. 404 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,679 Speaker 3: So that would have been your last encounter with her alive. 405 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 5: Wow, that's why I think. 406 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 8: I think he could have done I could die and 407 00:21:53,080 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 8: I could have somehow something. Did she go to her funeral? 408 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 8: Did you ever see any of the kids again? I'm 409 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 8: sorry to lead you back into these memories. 410 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 4: I know they're painful, I can tell, but we're trying 411 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 4: to figure out what happened. 412 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 8: And I know that someone as close as you you 413 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 8: had to have had a million dots run through your 414 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 8: head wondering if it could have done this to. 415 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:22,960 Speaker 5: Her a million. 416 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 8: Yeah, she Linda has publicly said before she passed away. 417 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 5: Baby didn't do this. 418 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, baby didn't do that. 419 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 5: I really don't. 420 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 8: I mean, twenty years later, what do you think happened? 421 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 4: I think you life switch from it. 422 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 5: I'm I do. 423 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 4: I honestly believe that for some reason. 424 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 6: I don't know why. 425 00:22:51,000 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 2: But please, Jeremy, we appreciate your time very much. And yeah, 426 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 2: you sure did, and you've got our information, and. 427 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was surprising that we left Jeremy with the 428 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: feeling that he wasn't involved. He'd seemed like a really 429 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: strong possibility for starters. Jeremy has a record that includes 430 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: violent crime. His own sister said he threatened to slit 431 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: her throat the precise way Yvonne had been killed, and 432 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: he admitted to us he was incredibly fucked up back then, 433 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 1: so could he have snapped. But mostly what we've heard 434 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: about Jeremy is that when he's sober, he's a softy 435 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: and wouldn't fight anyone. Even the sister he threatened said 436 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: the threats he made to her were just the drugs. 437 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: She never knew him to actually be violent. Though again, 438 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: there's always the possibility he snapped, but from speaking to him, 439 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: the guys felt he really cared for Yvonne and had 440 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: no motive to kill her. Sure, they speculated maybe Jeremy 441 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: wanted custody of Vinni, but after talking to him, he 442 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: told the guys he knew he and Linda wouldn't get 443 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: Vinnie even if Yvonne was dead. The children were supposed 444 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: to and did go to Yvonne's parents after she died. 445 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: It seemed to us Jeremy cared for Yvonne outside of 446 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: Vinnie and wouldn't want her dead. But he did confirm 447 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: a possible drug connection. Like we had heard from so 448 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,119 Speaker 1: many people before. His strong suspicion was that the police 449 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: could have been involved. And one thing is clear to us. 450 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,919 Speaker 1: People in this town do not trust the cops, and 451 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: maybe there's a good reason. Remember there was a new 452 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: chief of police at the time of Yvonne's murder. The 453 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: previous chief was fired for stealing drugs, guns and money, 454 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: and other cops were implicated to Clearly, it's not just 455 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: in our heads there's something up with the Alliance police. 456 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: But did they have anything to do with Yvonne's death. 457 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 1: We still couldn't shake the psychic tapes and detectives William 458 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: Mucklow and Bud Sampson bringing up the possibility that it 459 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: was one of their own. So it was time to 460 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: speak with some people who may actually know who Yvonne 461 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 1: was involved with back then. It's just so bizarre. It's 462 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: really she had so many secrets. 463 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: I don't know how she kept everything straight. 464 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: Coming up, some of Yvonne's secrets start to unravel coming 465 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: up on death and deceit in Alliance she had come. 466 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 3: To you saying she'd pissed off the wrong person. 467 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: She had so many secrets, it's like. 468 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 10: Three phases that I know of her life. 469 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: She was dating a cap They said they thought she 470 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 1: was pregnant, and she probably trying to. 471 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 10: Black you know, the daddy. I knew that she would 472 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 10: tell people that she was pregnant and then ask for 473 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 10: money for an abortion. That's how she would send money 474 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 10: to Eric when he was in the joint. 475 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 5: I think she was pregnant. 476 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 7: She had a belly eye when I. 477 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 2: See her, and she would shake them down, say I'm 478 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: want to tell your wife or something. 479 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 4: She had some dark sides too. 480 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:38,120 Speaker 1: What about this sex tape that Sue said you filmed. 481 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 10: I don't know how she kept everything straight. 482 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: Death and Deceit in Alliance is produced and reported by 483 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: me Maggie Freeling, with editorial consulting from Amber Hunt. Aaron 484 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: Case is our legal researcher. Our executive producer is Eve Fishman. 485 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: Our engineer and production coordinator is Austin Smith. Eric Axelrod 486 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: is our assistant producer.