1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:19,479 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Greece warning to parents, warning a 2 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: ten year old little girl, Absolutely beautiful little girl is dead. 3 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: Not from a car crash, not from an accident on 4 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 1: the playground, not from some drive by shooting at the mall. 5 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: She is dead, a ten year old little girl. And 6 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: all I can think about is my little girl and 7 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: my little boy at age ten. She is dead because 8 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: of a TikTok challenge. May they wrought in hell is 9 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,319 Speaker 1: the nicest way I can put it. And now, to 10 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: top it all off, we're finding out that this little 11 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: girl and others like her were allegedly specifically targeted through 12 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: an algorithm. You know how when you're online and you're 13 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: reading an article and suddenly, let's see, I get a 14 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: pop up for boys crocs because I was just on 15 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 1: Amazon searching for crocs from my son weird chue size 16 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: fourteen and a half. And at first I thought, wow, 17 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: how do they know I'm interested in crocs? Well, then 18 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: the next time popped up Easter dresses because I've been 19 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: looking for Easter dresses for my daughter. They target you. 20 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: This ten year old child was targeted, and she was 21 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: sent info on this TikTok challenge and now she's dead, 22 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: a ten year old little girl. Let's see if you 23 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: start schooling at seventy, start at seven or six. Let's 24 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: go at six, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, first, second, third, fourth, 25 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: fifth grade, fifth grade. Dead. I Nancy Grace. This is 26 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at 27 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Serious X one eleven. First of all, 28 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: take a listen to this. It is almost impossible to 29 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: fathom what this family from Chester is enduring. This is 30 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: the latest child death to be linked to a social 31 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: media dare dubbed the blackout challenge. This is where you 32 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: hold your breath until you pass out. Here's what this 33 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: young victim's mother wants you to know. It happened to her, good, 34 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: smart kid, and it happened under her own roof while 35 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: the family was at home. She was a butterfly, She 36 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: was every pain. She was a happy child. Ten year 37 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: old Nila Anderson has described as fun and bright. She 38 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: spoke three languages. Like most tweens, She was on social 39 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: media and participated in the recently popular, viral and extremely 40 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: dangerous blackout challenge to see sort of how long almost 41 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: you can be breathless or you know, hold your breath. 42 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:13,119 Speaker 1: But it can result in a strangulation, a blackout challenge 43 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: leaving a ten year old little girl dead in her 44 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: own home. How many times in the night if I 45 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: wake up, do I check on the twins? Make sure 46 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: they're okay when they go to bed. In the morning, 47 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: when they're back there doing their homework, I check on them. 48 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: Can you imagine going in to check on your little 49 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 1: girl or boy in finding them dead. That is the 50 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: horror that this family is living through. With me an 51 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 1: all star panel to make sense of what we know 52 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: right now. Jeff Goodman a high profile lawyer representing the 53 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: victim's family. He's a partner at Salzmjaluzi Bundeski PC and 54 00:03:55,160 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: at makesocial Media safe dot com. He's practiced all over, 55 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: but he is located in Philly. Jeff Goodman joining US. 56 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: Doctor Jorry Crawlsen, Psychologists faculty Saint Leo University, research consultant 57 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: and author of Operations. Glenn Bard joining us from Pennsylvania 58 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: State Trooper first Class and he is a computer crime investigator, 59 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: also a veteran of Desert Storm. Doctor Michelle Duprey joining 60 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: me forensic pathologists, medical examiner, detective and author of homicide 61 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: investigation field guide. But first to Dave Mattcrime online dot 62 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter, Dave, where did this happen? And this 63 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: happened in Nila Anderson's home with her mother downstairs in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 64 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 1: It's hurtful to think this happened in their own home. 65 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 1: To you, Jeff Goodman, high profile lawyer helping the victim's family. 66 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: Does the family still live in the same place where 67 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: their little girl died, where Nila lost her life, Yes, 68 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: they do. The family was downstairs that afternoon while Nilo 69 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: was up they thought taking a nap. She was instead 70 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: participating in this challenge when the family had the horror 71 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: that no family should ever see, when her mother found 72 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: her daughter asphyxiated in her room. I don't know how 73 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: they keep on. Tell me how the family is doing. 74 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: It is a struggle every day for Tauana and her children. 75 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: One of the ways that they keep on is by 76 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: trying to help make sure this doesn't happen to other families, 77 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: trying to help to spread the message of the dangers 78 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: that can come with these challenges, and the dangers that 79 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: can come when social media giants like TikTok don't behave 80 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: responsibly and safely. Dave Matt, tell me exactly what happened, Nappy, 81 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: as you just heard. Nila Anderson was upstairs. Her family 82 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: thought that she was laying down, but Nilo was actually 83 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: online on her phone and was on TikTok. The blackout 84 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: challenge on TikTok was there on her phone while she 85 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: tried to do this challenge. In this particular case, while 86 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: her family was downstairs. Her mom is downstairs. Nyla took 87 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: her the strap from her mother's purse and based on 88 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: instruction she got via TikTok, she used that strap around 89 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: her own neck in her mother's closet and hung herself, 90 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: not intentionally. Her intention was not to hang herself. Her 91 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: intention was to play the blackout challenge, and she did. 92 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: She blacked out. Take a listen to our cut three 93 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: our friends at wp z I doctor Zay. Nyla was 94 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: at home when she tried the trend. She happened to 95 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: be in her own bedroom of her house with her 96 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: family at home, but no one was in the bedroom 97 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: with her when this happened, so there was no one 98 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: there to save her. NILA's family is in a state 99 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: of shock. They rushed her to No Moore's Children's Hospital, 100 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: but she didn't make it. I'm sworn if a payment 101 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: don't go away. This is Tubby, he said. It's happy 102 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: and though that was so worried. Medical authorities say the 103 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: lack of oxygen can lead to cardiac arrest and other 104 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: medical dangers, significant organ damage, including brain damage, which really 105 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: is one of the most vulnerable organs to lack of oxygen, 106 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: and even death. To doctor Michelle Duprey joining us, Doctor Duprey, 107 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, explained to me what 108 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: we were just hearing from our friends at WPPI. Well, Nancy, 109 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: the lack of oxygen actually causes the brain to swell. 110 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: And as you know, the brain is inside our bone skull, 111 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: and so when it swells, it can't really expand, and 112 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: that causes the brain to shift, and when it does this, 113 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: it often presses down onto our restiratory center, which is 114 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: in the medulla of our brain, and it causes us 115 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: to then stop breathing. This is a trend all across 116 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: the country, and it's not just this little girl, Nyla 117 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: that has passed away. Take a listen to our cut eight. 118 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if the name Lateria Smith Junior rings 119 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: a bell to you take a listen to our friends 120 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: WRG the family of Laterias Smith Junior remembers how talkative, 121 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: how outgoing the nine year old little boy was. All Roman. 122 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: You've always seen that instead of the boy looking forward 123 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: to a summer full of activities, his relatives now prepare 124 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: for his funeral, to see that pebe laying in that 125 00:08:56,000 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: casket hasn't even had an opportunity to grow up. You know, 126 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: his life has ended because of some people putting stupid 127 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 1: things on various sites. Terius, whose family calls TJ, was 128 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: familiar with social media sites. He was discovered unresponsive in 129 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: his room last week. They saw the built was around 130 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: his neck and gave rush into the hospital, but he 131 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: didn't survive. It wasn't until later on that we found 132 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: out that there was some type of video on TikTok. 133 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: TJ just nine years old when he saw this TikTok 134 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: challenge and now he's dead. Hear more about TJ from 135 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 1: our friends at w R EGR Cut nine. There was 136 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: some type of video on TikTok, you know, letting kids 137 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: know you know how to what is it? Strangle yourself? 138 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: But you gotta get out. The challenge is to get 139 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: out of it. But he's nine years old. He's nine 140 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: years old, so how was he going to get out 141 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: of it? Over the last few years throughout the country, 142 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: various social media trends like the passout challenge or choking 143 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: games have been blamed for the deaths of young people. 144 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: I nine year old nephew. I mean, he's gone as 145 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: a result of this, and the family is just devastated. 146 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: This family doesn't want others to endure the pain they're experiencing. 147 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: Their message to parents tonight, as we approach the summer, 148 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: when children will have even more free time monitor everything. 149 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: They encourage parents to block various social media sites as 150 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: well as educate themselves. But what could be lurking behind 151 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 1: your child's screen? I know you can't watch them, you know, 152 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 1: twenty four hours, but that in which you can do, 153 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: just have to save a line. A nine year old 154 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: little boy TJ dead, now ten year old Nyla dead. 155 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: They're not the only ones. Take a list an hour 156 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: cut ten kfo R talking about a twelve year old boy. 157 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: Police are warning right now that kids are spending a 158 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: lot of time alone and board. They say it's leading 159 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: to especially pre teens taking part in a so called 160 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: blackout challenge. His family's devastated, of course, on something just 161 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: nonsense that happened. Police say they found the twelve year 162 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: old boy dead in a breeze way of this Bethany 163 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: apartment complex just after midnight. They say there were marks 164 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 1: on his neck. This was not a suicide attempt, but 165 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: just an accident based on a possible TikTok challenge. It 166 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: goes by different names, blackout challenge, pass out challenge, speed dreaming, 167 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: the fainting game. Kids asphyxiating themselves, either choking themselves out 168 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: by hand or using some sort of a ligature like 169 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 1: a rope or a belt or something like that, just 170 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: so they can get the euphoria when they start to 171 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:06,479 Speaker 1: wake up. Speed dreaming, the fainting game. That is certainly 172 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: airbrushing the horrible truth of what this TikTok blackout challenge is. 173 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: It's a surefire way to kill yourself unwittingly. Time stories 174 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace straight up to Glenn bard Form in 175 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania State Trooper first class Computer Crime Investigations. He is 176 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: at pat Tech pat c Tech Digital Forensics. Glenn, thank 177 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: you for being with us. What is wrong with TikTok? 178 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: Why would they? Now, I've got to tell you, Glenn, 179 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: both John David and Lucy and my children, now fourteen, 180 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: have done TikTok challenges, both of the same nature, on 181 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: two separate occasions, one with John David and one with Lucy. 182 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: I was working in the den minding my own business, 183 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: and John David appeared in the kitchen. He's pouring all 184 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: these different things together. I don't even remember what they 185 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: all wore that. He was getting out of the kitchen 186 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 1: and I said, Son, are you actually cooking something? I 187 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: am in shock. He knows how to make cereal and ramen, 188 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 1: so I was stunned. Here's no mom, I'm doing a 189 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: TikTok challenge. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa what TikTok challenge? 190 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,559 Speaker 1: It was harmless. And then Lucy's was similar. She was 191 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: doing a TikTok challenge in the kitchen, pouring a bunch 192 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: of stuff together, and it was supposed to react some way, 193 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: Glen Bard, is there no oversight at TikTok? Well, the 194 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: thing about it is that first off, they do have 195 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: certain settings, like they try to say they have these 196 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: thirteen years or older to have an account, but that's 197 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: not verified obviously. Oh please, if that's the work that works, 198 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: I mean, that's like all the dating sides where you're 199 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,719 Speaker 1: supposed to put how old you are and sending the 200 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: picture of yourself. That's all bs. So you're telling me 201 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: a child won't go on to an inviting side that's 202 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: targeted at them and lie about their age. Of course 203 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: they all lie about their age. Well, that's exactly it. Again. 204 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: It claims you have to be thirteen to have an 205 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: account or be a TikTok user, but there is no 206 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: age verification. So that is one way where they're saying 207 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: that they're trying to make sure children don't get access 208 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: to this, but there's no way to actually confirm or 209 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: verify any of that. The other thing is that these 210 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: different challenges go viral, and they go viral based off 211 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: an algorithm. They tell people that they should be watching 212 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: these videos based on their past history, location, and different 213 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: things like that. So it kind of if a person 214 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: looks at one challenge and makes comments and watch those 215 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: videos over and over sort of to start seeing more 216 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: challenges come into there. For your page, what can you 217 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: tell me about claims that TikTok has an algorithm like 218 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: the one I was describing. Obviously, I've been targeted to 219 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: buy stuff that specifically targets certain age children. Well, what 220 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: the algorithm is, simply enough, an algorithm is nothing more 221 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: than a set of rules to complete a task in 222 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: this class, this instance, a task of telling people who 223 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: what to watch on there for you page. And it's 224 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: based off two different things, two different brackets, you could say. 225 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: The first one is going to be things like your location, 226 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: the language you're using, and so on, so the basic 227 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: comment stuff woly think of. The second set of rules 228 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: is based off of things like the likes, shares, and 229 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: comments and even videos that are being completely watched for 230 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: rewatched again. So what it's doing is if you have 231 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: a person who likes and comments on a certain hashtag 232 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: or on videos that do include these different challenges, they're 233 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: going to be recommended to watch more of these similar videos. Okay, 234 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: let me ask you, doctor Georgy, do you understand what 235 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: he just said? I kind of do, and I kind 236 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: of don't. Let me just say they didn't teach me 237 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: that at law school. All right, now, you put a 238 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: crime scene type around it, I will run circles around you. 239 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: But whatever he just said, what yeah, let me took 240 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: from the psychological perspective, there's a science or a new study. 241 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: It's called cyberpsychology, okay, And there's things that have been 242 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 1: developed and understood through the research over the last ten 243 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: fifteen years in social media and the algorithms that can 244 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: really be fine tuned. Also, he talked about two broad categories, 245 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: but once they're logged in then they can be even 246 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: further fine tuned to kick out, you know, likes and dislikes, 247 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: and that comes into the marketing area of it. One 248 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:15,400 Speaker 1: thing in cyberpsychology is the um addictive quality that social 249 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,239 Speaker 1: media has. My stars hold on. I'm writing that an 250 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: addicted quality because we our family, we don't have devices 251 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 1: at the supper table or if we're we're we're in 252 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: the car riding somewhere and we're all talking. They are 253 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: like monkeys with a toy. John David and Lucy to 254 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: my children, I have to like take it out of 255 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: their hand and then that's an h l l of 256 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: a fight right there to get it, or we'll be 257 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: in a rustaurant. Ill look over and John David is 258 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: staring right at it and you know who else does it? 259 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: My husband and I said, are you addicted? What is 260 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: wrong with you? Which is I know, not a good 261 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: way to start a subject by saying is wrong with you. 262 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,159 Speaker 1: He's long since learned to just say everything, everything is 263 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 1: wrong with me, and I'm well, I can't fight about that. 264 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: But it's it's like alcohol or drugs. Yeah, because it's 265 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: a positive reinforcement. It's the opportunity to express your personality. 266 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: That's the other thing that comes out in cyberpsychology is 267 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: that algorithms, anything that you post is going to be 268 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: reflective of your personality. So if there's a devian personality, 269 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: it's going to come out in you know, your social profile, 270 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: anything that you put out there. Okay, just hold on, 271 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: doctor Jory, Jeff Goodman, doctor Dupre, davemac now joining me, 272 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: a very good friend, Titania from Bark. I still don't 273 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,959 Speaker 1: get and I understand that it happens like I've never 274 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: really tried to figure out how the TV works or 275 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: how the phone works. I just know that it does. 276 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: I also know that when I go on my iPad 277 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: of my computer, I get a barrage of advertisements similar 278 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: to things I've been shopping four. All right, so let 279 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: me ask you to Tania Jordan joining me from our 280 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: friends at BARK. I've got Bark on the twins phones 281 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: and it's very sensitive. It picks up if somebody sends 282 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: them a text with a curse word in it. I 283 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: remember John David. Let me bore you for one moment 284 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: to Tania, because you've heard the story before. He's the 285 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: goalie on the soccer team and he dove through the 286 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: net one time to stop a goal, and he was 287 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: so proud, and he was showing off his bruise that 288 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: he got from saving you stopping a goal. And Bark 289 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: sent me an alert about self harm because he had 290 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: a bruise. It's very sensitive. What I don't understand, Titania 291 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: joining us from BARK the chief parent officer at BARK 292 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: Parental Controls. Would Bark pick up something like this TikTok 293 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: challenge where now I've got not one, but multiple little 294 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: children dead. The short answer is yes, Bark is alerting 295 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: so many families to so many things that they have 296 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: no idea is even happening, not only TikTok challenges, but 297 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: teen text slang emoji usage that some of you probably 298 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: would be blown away by, for example, the possible emoji. 299 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: If your child is sending that around, they're probably not 300 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: excited about Italian dinner tonight. It's short hand for nudes, 301 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: because noodles, send nudes, send nude photos. Oh please stop 302 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: right there. I've said the Philadelphia Airport coming home, and 303 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: my son loves all sorts of Asian food where forever 304 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: it's sushi at ramen. I saw a T shirt that 305 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: had a bowl of ramen and it said send nuds 306 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: in ods. I said, oh, that's perfect for John David. 307 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,439 Speaker 1: He wore in several Facebook posts that I did stuff 308 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: and Twitter before some guy wrote, hey, love the T 309 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: shirt and Nancy and I thought, wow, he must like 310 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: Asian foot two and I went, sin needs say, oh yeah, 311 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: that was like two years ago, and I get it. 312 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: It's just I would never have thought of it if 313 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: I hadn't read that Twitter response. I just didn't think 314 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: anything of it. And I remember we were going somewhere. 315 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: I said John David, send your sin wear your Sin 316 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 1: Moves T shirt. He went, you want me to wear that? Mom? 317 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: I'm like yeah, because I didn't get it. He got it, 318 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: but I didn't get it. Okay, go ahead, flash his heart. Yeah, kids, 319 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: kids are special. I've got a thirteen year old and 320 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 1: their sense of humor is next level, but their decision 321 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: making prowessed, is not that of an adult. Their brains 322 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: are not fully formed until they're in their early twenties. 323 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: And so you mix the addictive nature with the peer 324 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: pressure with their inability to have full comprehension of good 325 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: choices and bad choices, and TikTok can be a recipe 326 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: for disaster. And yeah, as Bark can alert you when 327 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: your child is encountering dangerous content and dangerous people across 328 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: over thirty social media platforms, text message and emails. And 329 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: believe me, I am not getting a percentage from Bark. 330 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: I'm not an ambassador or a salesperson, the worst salesperson 331 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,719 Speaker 1: in the world, but I know that it works. I'm 332 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: just trying to figure out a way to protect people 333 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: from things, children from things like this TikTok challenge you 334 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: earlier heard from our friends at WGIV. But now take 335 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut five, a lawyer on this case. 336 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: And twenty twenty one reports began to emerge from throughout 337 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: the world that children were dying as a result of 338 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: participating in TikTok blackout challenges. So what did TikTok do 339 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: once they learned of this? Did they use their technology 340 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 1: to protect children? Sadly, they didn't. What TikTok did was 341 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: to use their app and algorithm to forward a blackout 342 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: challenge video to ten year old Nila Anderson. That video 343 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: was essentially a how to how to video how to 344 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 1: asphyxiate yourself. That is what they sent to a child. 345 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: To you, high profile lawyer Jeff Goodman joined me out 346 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: of Philly and he is representing NILA's family. You were 347 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: just hearing your partner, Bob Mangalouzy. I want to follow 348 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: up on what your partner was saying. Are you telling me, 349 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: Jeff Goodman that TikTok was alerted to what was happening 350 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: and they have done nothing. TikTok head warning if or 351 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: warning that this challenge was being posted on their platform. 352 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: That this challenge was being spread on their platform. All 353 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 1: of the features of the algorithm could have enabled TikTok 354 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: to identify it as dangerous, flag it and stop it. Instead, 355 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: the algorithm identified that users wanted to see it, and 356 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: therefore it's sent it to more and more users. Through 357 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: their for You page. Two of the other guests use 358 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: the magic word here, and they said addictive when talking 359 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: about the qualities of TikTok and social media. That's the 360 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: goal of TikTok, the way it spreads these challenges, to 361 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: have users addicted so that they stay engaged, so that 362 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: they continue to watch, because that's where their profits are 363 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: driven from. Big tech is the big tobacco of the 364 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: modern era when it comes to spreading addiction for the 365 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: purpose of promoting their products, and that's exactly what TikTok 366 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: did here. I don't know if you guys remember my 367 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: old friend Larry King who really helped me. I had 368 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: been a guest on Larry's show many many times and 369 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: then was fortunate enough to be named his permanent guest host. 370 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: And I got to do that for several years. And 371 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: I remember sitting in on a meeting with him and 372 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,120 Speaker 1: his staff was very informal, and they were pitching ideas 373 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: and somebody had pitched something and Larry said no, and 374 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: they said why all rate? And he went, well, yeah, 375 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: if we put people fornicating on air, that'll rate. But 376 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it. I mean, there is 377 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: a line it's a moral line of what you think 378 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: is right or wrong. And sure you might make more 379 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: money doing feeling the blank it whatever it is, but 380 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: that doesn't make it right. And what I am hearing 381 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: from Jeff Goodman, who was representing I was family. I mean, 382 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 1: think about the mother going in and finding her ten 383 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 1: year old child dead. They have been alerted and they're 384 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: still doing it. Is that right, Glenn Bard? Obviously I 385 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: don't believe it is. No. Anytime you have anything could 386 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: be dangerous, especially to our younger children, I don't think 387 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: it's right, and I think they do have some sort 388 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: of diligence to try to protect people using it. Of course, 389 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: that's for someone like Jeff and you to make an 390 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: argument about the courts. But you know, from my perspective 391 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,920 Speaker 1: of it as an examiner, when I see these things, 392 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: it is truly heartbreaking, and I do think that there 393 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: has to be some way that we can start protecting 394 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: our children a little bit better. Well, you said to 395 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: make that argument, You're absolutely correct, Jeff Goodman. I think 396 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: Glenn Bard, our former Pennsylvania state trooper who is now 397 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: at pactech dot com, is talking about the First Amendment. 398 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: But let me find everybody and agree or disagree. Jeff, 399 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: I mean, the First Amendment is not unfettered. For instance, 400 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: here's a great law school example. You can't run into 401 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: a theater and you'll fire and cause a stampede. Certain 402 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: materials that are reviled, certain types of pornography. There's not 403 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: free speech for everything. And that's the argument I would 404 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: make against TikTok here. You don't have unfettered access to 405 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: our children's minds. I couldn't agree more Nancy. The example 406 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: you gave a fire in a crowded theater. The reason 407 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: is because it can cause danger, and free speech is 408 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: limited where it can cause danger. And that is never 409 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 1: more necessary than when it comes to protecting children by 410 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: making sure they do not see dangerous content. Your television 411 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: has had parental controls for almost thirty years for this 412 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: exact purpose. Yet far more sophisticated technology that the social 413 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: media companies do continues to shun any movement in that direction. 414 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: And now we are hearing that there is going to 415 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 1: be essentially a department of truth in the White House. Okay, 416 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:24,439 Speaker 1: And we see how other big social media decides who 417 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: is going to be banned and who is not going 418 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: to be banned, but they can't control TikTok blackout challenges. Really, 419 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: let's bring it all home. Take listen to our cut six. 420 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: This is Nyla's mother, Tawana. We lived a happy life 421 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: the two these numbers seven, two thousand, twenty way when 422 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: our lives changed favor from this terrible tragedy. I cannot 423 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: stop replaying this thing in my head. The unbreakable bide 424 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: in our family is now shattering boy and that was 425 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: now neither remains. And following this tragedy, I had discovered 426 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: that Nila was not the only victim to this horrible 427 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: challenge or TikTok. I have learned that it has taken 428 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: many children's life. I want to hold this company accountable. 429 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: It's time that these dangerous challenges come to an end, 430 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,040 Speaker 1: that other families don't experience the heartbreak we live every day. 431 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: I accepted that my daughter's voice is going forever, so 432 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna speak for her in the message her today. 433 00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: And something has to change. Something has to stop, because 434 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: I wouldn't never want to know other parents to go 435 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: through what I'm gonna through. Every Since December seventy time 436 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. We lived a happy life and 437 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: two these simmers seven two and twenty wife when our 438 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: lives changed forever from this terrible tragedy. I cannot stop 439 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: replaying this day in my head. The unbreakable bind in 440 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: our family is now shattering going and that was now 441 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: neither remains. And following this tragedy, I had discovered that 442 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: night it was not the only victim to this horrible 443 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: challenge or TikTok. I have learned that it has taken 444 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: many children's life. I want to hold this company accountable. 445 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: It's time that these dangerous challenges come to an end, 446 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: that other families don't experience the heartbreak we live every day. 447 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: I accepted that my daughter's voice is going forever, so 448 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna speak for her in the message here today. 449 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: It's something has to change, something has to stop, because 450 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't never, nope of the parents to go through 451 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: what I'm going through. Ever, he says December to you, 452 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: Jeff Goodman, high profile lawyer representing NILA's family, that the 453 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: raw pain and her mother's voice, I'm surprised she could 454 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: be so well spoken, so articulate through her tears and 455 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: just choking down the pain she has suffered. What I 456 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 1: feel very much like David and Goliath right now. For you, 457 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: How are you, Jeff Goodman and Tawanna Anderson, NILA's mom, 458 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 1: how are you going to stop TikTok? I mean, when 459 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: I think about it, I think of David with his 460 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:57,280 Speaker 1: sling and a stone and Goliath, huge warrior, obviously a 461 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: giant of some sort. How are you going to do that? 462 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: We're going to do that because we're right and because 463 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 1: it's important for child safety. And that's a message that 464 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: everybody understands that protecting children must always come first. And 465 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: the courts have countless stories of the David and Goliath 466 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: battles where the Goliath corporations have been taken down by 467 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: victims like Tawanna Anderson, who stepped up, who had her 468 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: voice heard, and who ultimately convinced either jurors or judges 469 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: that we were right here and that something needs to change. 470 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,960 Speaker 1: And when it comes to big corporations, the courts are 471 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: one of the best ways to make that happen. Well, 472 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 1: here's an example of taking on a giant corporation and winning. 473 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twelve, our friend Lisa 474 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 1: Niko at KUTV. For years we have known that children 475 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: and the elderly might mistake these for candy or mints, 476 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: but now it's getting out of hand. In fact, now 477 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: it's determined. It's developed into a dangerous dare for teenagers. 478 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: We've get a lot of calls about them. The Utah 479 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: Poison Control Center says these are a deadly threat. Typically 480 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 1: the call when they are concerned or they're scared. Kids 481 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: and teens are now daring one another to ingest the 482 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: poisonous pods. I don't think anyone I know would is 483 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: stupid enough to do the tide pod challenge. Liquid detergent 484 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: all wrapped up in a tight, bright package. So this 485 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: is not something you want to flirt with. So far 486 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: this year, I think it's funny. Multiple teens in Utah 487 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: are among the nearly fifty Americans who reported being exposed 488 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: to the toxic tinture. It's like scary and funny in 489 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: a horrible way. Half of those exposures were on purpose, 490 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: like people will do like the most stupid stuff. Ever, 491 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: Yes they will. And it was brought to the attention 492 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: and a proctor and gamble the danger of these pods. 493 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: They're tiny, they look like candy, they look edible, children 494 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: were aiding them inadvertently, and there were teens and twains 495 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: aiding them as part of a challenge. So what did 496 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: Tide do? Let's our cut thirteen KUTV. Tide's parent company, 497 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: Procter and Gamble say they're now changing the design to 498 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: make it harder for kids to abuse. We've worked diligently 499 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: with industry, making the film on that packet even more 500 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: tough so that it is easy to puncture, and reducing 501 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,399 Speaker 1: the toxicity and the strength of the laundry detergents. While 502 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: only a couple exposures have been reported here in Utah, 503 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: Poison Control believes the many more teens are trying the challenge. 504 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: They're warning to parents they're bandests associated with the pods. 505 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: There have been serious eye injuries. Don't be blind to 506 00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: the Tide pod challenge about the likes. It's about the 507 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: no views on Instagram, the followers a false sense of popularity, 508 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: you know. That is the way Tide responded. But according 509 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: to Jeff joining us right now, the lawyer for Nihili's family, 510 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 1: Jeff Goodman joining side of Philly TikTok is basically saying 511 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: screw you and doing nothing. How many more deaths will 512 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: it take to you to Tarnya Jordan joining us from 513 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 1: bark any ideas? I mean, Jeff's already I've got the 514 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: lawsuit right now, right in front of me. He has 515 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:39,919 Speaker 1: filed is filing an incredible lawsuit against TikTok to try 516 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: to make them change what they are doing. Any ideas 517 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: to Tanya what else can be done? Well, that's a 518 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 1: great question, you know, and not speaking on behalf of TikTok, 519 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: but in their defense, they do have a trust and 520 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: safety team that's composed of humans who do care about 521 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: other humans, and so imploring them to do the right 522 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: thing for children and for families over profits is what 523 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: we as a society have to continue to do. You know. Obviously, 524 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: as a large corporation with billions of dollars at play, 525 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: they have liability, they have processes, they have a lot 526 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: of things that they need to go through to protect 527 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: their company. But at the end of the day, we 528 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: have to prioritize the health and safety of children that 529 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: are knowingly on their platform over the profits of the corporation. Well, 530 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: I agree with you, I don't know how much I 531 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: trust the TikTok Trust and Safety team. Well, because the 532 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: Trust and Safety Team has already been a prize of 533 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: NILA's death as well as I've got a stack of 534 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: papers right here on my desk is so thick I 535 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,720 Speaker 1: can't even get through them, all of all the children 536 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: that have died because the TikTok challenges. But you can 537 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: report on TikTok. Reported on TikTok. Go listen, click on 538 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: the WHI arrow the right of the video, tap the 539 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: icon that says report when the flag symbol tap suicide, 540 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 1: self arm, dangerous acts, and report the content. Not only that, 541 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: not just reporting to TikTok, because that keeps it internal. 542 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: You have to think about it from a pr play 543 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: of they don't want this negative press out there, and 544 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: if nobody else knows about it, we're not going to 545 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: get mad about it and do anything about it. So 546 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: we have got to also let our local law enforcement know. 547 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: Good idea. We've got to let our local legislators know. 548 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: I always say the first place to start is calling 549 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: your rep and calling your senator. First place to start. 550 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: Do they care? Maybe maybe not? Do they care about reelection? 551 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: You darn right they do. Jeff Goodman, tell me about 552 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: the lawsuit in a nutshell The lawsuit focuses on the 553 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: problem at TikTok of how their algorithm functions and the 554 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: fact that this algorithm would send a how to asphyxiate 555 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,879 Speaker 1: your self guide to a ten year old. That algorithm 556 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: could just as easily be used to take advantage of 557 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: the technology to screen dangerous content. Instead, the algorithm was 558 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: used to send dangerous content. That algorithm, in the simplest form, 559 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,720 Speaker 1: is a product, and this is a product liability lawsuit 560 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: about the defective nature of that algorithm and that it 561 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: could ever function in such a matter. You know when 562 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: it comes to algorithms, and I may need you and 563 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 1: Glenn and to Wanta to explain a little bit better. 564 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:38,240 Speaker 1: I remember when I first left CNN HLM and launch 565 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com and Crime Stories, and we were 566 00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: constantly sending out missing children, unsolved homicides all day every day. 567 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,880 Speaker 1: And then I found out they weren't reaching all of 568 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: our Facebook followers and Twitter followers and instat followers. And 569 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 1: I remember asking our managing editor Wilson, I'm like, why 570 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: aren't these missing children notice is going out and these 571 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: Amber alerts? Why all of our followers getting them? He said, 572 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: the algorithm all of your posts don't go through to 573 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: all of your followers. And I mean, my life has 574 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: been representing crime victims. I didn't know anything about algorithms, 575 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: and when I found out, it struck me wrong. And 576 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: now I'm hearing this. How can it be, Jeff Goodman, 577 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,600 Speaker 1: that a ten year old little girl is targeted my TikTok. 578 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: It certainly shouldn't be. One of the algorithm also understands 579 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: its users. TikTok conducts surveillance on the users through what 580 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: they are looking at, and it's not just what they like, 581 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: it's also how long their eyes remain on the screen 582 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: in watching a video, and it uses all of that data. 583 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,879 Speaker 1: That data can and should be used to help make 584 00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:01,360 Speaker 1: social media safe, and instead that data seems to be harnessed, 585 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: directed and almost exclusively at the goal of corporate profits. 586 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 1: That needs to change and to you Dodge, Michelle Dupree, 587 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 1: this challenge is extremely dangerous, even if it doesn't result 588 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: in death, because time is brain cells. Any time you 589 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: are without oxygen or blood supply, you are risking permanent 590 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 1: damage to part of your brain. Isn't that true? Absolutely, Nancy, 591 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: And every time that this is done, then more and 592 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: more and more brain cells are affected, so every time 593 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,800 Speaker 1: someone plays this game and survives, they are still causing injury. 594 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: If you want more information, call Safe Kids Worldwide at 595 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: two zero two six six two zero six hundred repeat 596 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 1: two zero two six six two zero six hundred, and 597 00:40:56,239 --> 00:41:01,160 Speaker 1: then do something. Pick up your phone, call your senator, 598 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: call your rep. If you don't know their numbers, google them. 599 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,840 Speaker 1: I've done it many a time. Just pick up the phone, 600 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: let your voice be heard, and do not let giant 601 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: corporations like TikTok ruin your child's life. Nancy Grace Crime 602 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: Story signing off, Goodbye friend