1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:00,840 Speaker 1: Guess what will? 2 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:01,560 Speaker 2: What's that mango? 3 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: So you know, one thing I'm pretty terrible at is 4 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: time management, right yep, Like I always have too many 5 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: commitments to try to get too many things done and 6 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: end up a little late on everything. But one of 7 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: my heroes in this regard is Sandra Day O'Connor. 8 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 2: I can't say that I knew that she was known 9 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 2: for her time management. 10 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was just a force at making things happen. 11 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: Like one of my favorite examples is this one time 12 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: when she was in the Arizona State Legislature and this 13 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: was before she was on the Supreme Court, and it 14 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: needed to pass its new budget before midnight, and everyone 15 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: just assumed the thing was impossible, but O'Connor, she just 16 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: insisted that they'd be done by six pm, and from 17 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: her perspective, there was no other option because one of 18 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: her sons was about to leave for summer camp and 19 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: she promised to be home to bake the cookies in 20 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: time before he headed off. 21 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: Oh that's pretty great. So were they successful? Did they 22 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: get it pushed through in time? 23 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: Yeah? Because she's amazing, Like she was just insanely diplomatic 24 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 1: but also no nonsense and super efficient. I mean, the 25 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: idea of adding unwilling sized degree and compromise feels like 26 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: a force we could use right now. But the budget 27 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: passed with plenty of time, and presumably Sandra's son went 28 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: on to be the most popular kid at summer camp. 29 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: But Santa Day O'Connor's life is a pretty amazing one, 30 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: and that's what we're about to dive into. 31 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 2: Hey, their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm 32 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good 33 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 2: friend mangesh Ha Ticketter and on the other side of 34 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: the soundproof glass waving his homemade Scotus pennant. It's impressive. 35 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: That's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. I don't know 36 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: if I've ever seen anyone so fired up about the 37 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 2: judicial branch. 38 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, someone's been practicing his needle point. 39 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: Well. In this case, Tristan's enthusiasm is totally warranted, because 40 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: today's show us about a legal legend who's truly worth celebrating, 41 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: and that's Sandra Day O'Connor. She often cast the deciding 42 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: vote on all kinds of deadlock political and social issues, 43 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: and whether you agree with her politics or not, there's 44 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 2: no denying the impact O'Connor has had not just on 45 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: our legal institutions, but also on the roles women serve 46 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 2: within them. And as the first female justice, she showed 47 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: the world exactly why women deserve a place on our 48 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: nation's highest court. 49 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 1: That's right. So I've been fascinated with Sandra Day for 50 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: a while, and as you know, I commissioned a story 51 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: on her at Mental Floss because I firmly believe more 52 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: people need to know her extraordinary story. Actually, I think 53 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: if I remember this spot, I wanted to pitch a 54 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: TV show on her called Sandra Day O'Connor Stripmall Attorney. 55 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: I don't know how that never happened. 56 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: I know, I mean notorious RVG gets all this attention, 57 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 1: but Sandra also deserves to be a folk hero, and 58 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: we'll get into all of that. But since you're bringing 59 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: up her biggest claim to fame, I wanted to mention 60 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: the acronym O'Connor came up with for her achievements. You know, 61 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: she was appointed to be the first woman on the 62 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: Supreme Court in nineteen eighty one by President Reagan. But 63 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: rather than spell out the title all the time, O'Connor 64 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: liked to abbreviate it to FWOTSC. 65 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: This kind of rolls off the telling. So was this 66 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: really something she liked to go by. 67 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, she chose it herself, but it's got a good backstory. 68 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: So apparently The New York Times published an article in 69 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, and it lamented is no Washington name 70 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: exempt from shorthand the chief Magistrate sometimes goes by potus, 71 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: the nine men who interpret them, or often the Scotis, 72 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: but the people who enact them are still for better 73 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: or worse Congress. 74 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess that's a moderately witty joke, right. 75 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: No, but Saturday O'Connor had her own problem with the article. 76 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: In a letter to the editor, she wrote, according to 77 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: the information available to me, and which I had assumed 78 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: was generally available for over two years now, Scotus has 79 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: not consisted of nine men. If you have any contradictory information, 80 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: I would be grateful if you would forward it, as 81 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure the Potus, the Scotis, and the undersigned the 82 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: FWOTSC would be most interested in seeing that. 83 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 3: I like that. 84 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: She schooled the New York Times and coined her own 85 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 2: nickname in one fell swoop there. 86 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty great, But I'm guessing part of the 87 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: reason she was so peeved by the article was that 88 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: she'd already dealt with so many public slights by that point. 89 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: Well what do you mean by that? 90 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: Well, O'Connor received a staggering sixty thousand letters during her 91 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 1: first year on the job, and while most of the 92 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: correspondence was positive, she got a good amount of hate mail. 93 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: Like the negative letters were generally baseless enough to brush off, 94 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: and it was stuff like back to your kitchen and home, female, 95 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 1: this is a job for men, and only he can 96 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: make the rough decisions. Just such a terrible note. Another 97 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: person wrote in and said being a female justice was 98 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: better suited for Marxist related feminists rather than a wife 99 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: and a mother who respects the psychological component of a family. 100 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: I mean, the letters just poured in. 101 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 2: Good Lord, I mean, I could see why she would 102 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 2: have bristled at the time story, and especially after having 103 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: to sit through two years of this stuff. 104 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: Exactly, even though she had been handpicked by the President 105 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: and was unanimously conform by the Senate, there was still 106 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: this large chunk of the population that couldn't stand the 107 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: thought of a woman being in such a powerful position, 108 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: and actually how she was picked by Reagan was pretty fascinating. 109 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: We should talk a little about that in a bit. 110 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: Well, definitely, but you know, thankfully O'Connor was made of 111 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 2: much sterner stuff than her detractors, and her childhood upbringing 112 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: all but assured that. 113 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, for those who don't know, sandur Day was 114 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: born and raised on her family's enormous cattle ranch. This 115 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: was on the New Mexico Arizona border, and it's called 116 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: the Lazy Bee Ranch. It's actually named after a bit 117 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: of rancher LINGO. I didn't realize this before, but apparently 118 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: when a letter used on the cattle brand is applied 119 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: in a crooked manner, so that the letters on its side, 120 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: in this case the bee, it's said to be lazy. 121 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: Oh. I never knew that. I don't know how both 122 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 2: of us admits that, because we're cattle ranchers. 123 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, big time cattle aficionados. But the LazyB 124 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: was actually this massive piece of land. It was one 125 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty thousand acres or roughly two hundred and 126 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: fifty square miles. And because I know you prefer to 127 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: like get your measurements and really to Rhode Island. Yeah, 128 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: it did the math, and the rash breaks down to 129 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: about one fifth the size of Rhode Island. 130 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 2: I really appreciate you doing the math for me on 131 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 2: that one. But you know, we were talking about this 132 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 2: a little earlier, and just because the Day family had 133 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: so much land, that doesn't mean they were living well. 134 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 2: In fact, the property, which had been passed down for 135 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 2: a couple of generations, it really wasn't worth all that 136 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: much when Sanders dad inherited it. It was a one 137 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 2: bedroom house that they lived in there, didn't have electricity, 138 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: didn't have running water. They're basically scraping together enough income 139 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 2: just to survive in this constant struggle there. But the 140 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,679 Speaker 2: family had an unrelenting work ethic, so they'd repair wells 141 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: and raise cattle for slaughter. And the really crazy thing 142 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 2: is that with all that acreage and about a thousand 143 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: head of cattle to look after, the Day family kept 144 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: this ridiculously tiny staff on hand to oversee it. I 145 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 2: think there were just like five full time employees year round, 146 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 2: and another few that came on for the big roundup, 147 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 2: so that happened each spring and fall. So it was 148 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: a really really small crew, I know, for a lot 149 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 2: of land, which is probably why say had to help 150 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: out so much herself. I mean, she grew up around 151 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 2: literal cowboys, and at a young age she was branding cattle, 152 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 2: driving tractors, and even warding off coyotes with her trusty 153 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: twenty two caliber rifle. I mean, this is exactly the 154 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 2: childhood that you expect from any Supreme Court justice. 155 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: I know, well not at all, but the hardscrabvel lifestyle 156 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: did teach Sandra all kinds of important life lessons. For example, 157 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: there was one ranch hand in particular who she credits 158 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: for some of the early lessons in fairness and empathy. 159 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: His name was Raphael Estrada, and he's got an amazing 160 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: story too. He was this illiterate Mexican American who'd worked 161 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: for the family his whole life, and he grew so 162 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: adept at ranching that he could actually identify almost every 163 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: cow on the ranch just by a look. But Sandra 164 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: later wrote of him, he knew he was very good 165 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: at what he did, and he demanded a high standard 166 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: from those around him, but he was dealt with what 167 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: many would say was a poor hand in life. He 168 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: was small, crippled, fatherless, a minority race in his birthland, 169 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: but he played the he was dealt like a master 170 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: from rostas we learned the contentment of doing the best 171 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: you can with what you have. 172 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, you hear a lot about her 173 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: practicality on the bench coming from her lessons that she 174 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: learned back on the farm, and it was really a 175 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 2: deep part of who she was. But I know her 176 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: father also imparted some tough wisdom in those early years. 177 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: You know, there's that great story I think we've talked 178 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 2: about this before where she learned, you know, how to 179 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 2: change a tire when she got a flat. 180 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, you should tell the listeners because it's such a 181 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: great story and it's pretty cinematic. 182 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: Right. So this was back when Sandra was just about fifteen, 183 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: I think, and this was in nineteen forty five. So 184 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 2: she'd offered to bring lunch to her father and his ranchands. 185 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 2: They were busy branding cattle on the far end of 186 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 2: the property, so early that hot summer morning, she heads 187 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 2: out in their old Chevy pickup and heads out to 188 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: the desert by herself. She's cruising along this remote dirt 189 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: road and she suddenly gets a flat tire. Now, she's 190 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 2: never changed a flat before, but she understands the basics. 191 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 2: So she spends the next hour stranded in the heat. 192 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: She figures out how to the car up, starts wrestling 193 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: with the rusty lugnuts, but the things won't budge. She 194 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 2: starts to panic for a minute because it's almost lunchtime 195 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 2: and everybody is counting on her to get there with 196 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 2: the food. Then she fits the wrench around each of 197 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 2: the nuts and starts jumping on it with all her 198 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 2: weight until finally the rust gives way and she manages 199 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 2: to get the tire changed. 200 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: So I mean, it sounds like the success story and 201 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: this lesson in perseverance. 202 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: Exactly, and that's no doubt how Sander viewed it. In fact, 203 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: she proudly explained the whole story when she finally made 204 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 2: it to where the crew was working. You know, she'd 205 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 2: gotten up early that morning but then got stranded in 206 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere with this flat tire, bunch of 207 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: rusted lug nuts, but which she'd arrived late, well after lunchtime. 208 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: So her father didn't share any of her sense of victory. 209 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: He just kind of balled her out, saying, you should 210 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 2: have started a lot earlier. You need to expect anything 211 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 2: out there. 212 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: Which he really takes to heart. 213 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: Right Well, Yes, Sander wrote of the experience later on, 214 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 2: She said, I had expected a word of praise for 215 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 2: changing the tire, But to the contrary I realized is 216 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 2: that the only thing was expected an on time lunch, 217 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: no excuses accepted. 218 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: And that story sounds like a folksy story a politician 219 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: would sell you, but you can actually see how it 220 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: made her work twice as hard and be prepared for 221 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: any situation. I know that when ken Starr went to 222 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: vetter for the Supreme Court, this was when she was 223 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: just a nominee. He mentioned that it was like she'd 224 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: been preparing for the Supreme Court all her life. At 225 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: the time, people assumed Sandra was this lightweight and that 226 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: she was only on the list because Reagan had made 227 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: this campaign promise that he'd add a woman to the 228 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: Supreme Court if he had the chance. But when Star 229 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,959 Speaker 1: met her and she really did have this non traditional 230 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: path to the Supreme Court, he was floored by her 231 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: depth of knowledge. But let's get back to the ranch. 232 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: While her dad was tough, he clearly had this softer 233 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: side as well, and he and Sandra's mother recognized how 234 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: smart she was and knew that she couldn't get the 235 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: formal education she deserved on the ranch. I mean, she 236 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: kind of always lived in two worlds. There's a great 237 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: line in that mental Flaw story where her days could 238 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: start with her reading Nancy drew lying on her, and 239 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: with her having to mercy kill a calf. It's sort 240 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: of incredible. But her double life grew even more extreme 241 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: when her parents sent her to live with her grandmother 242 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: in El Paso, Texas, and that's where she attended this 243 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: all girls private school for her primary education. It gave 244 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: her this view into high society and it kind of 245 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: put a new polish on her. She learned how to 246 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: dress and charm people and all these various social graces 247 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: in addition to giving her much better access to studies. 248 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: But then, just a year after the tire incident, Sandra 249 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: was allowed to skip two grades and go straight to 250 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: Stanford University at the age of sixteen. 251 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 2: Wow. I mean again, it just points to how bright 252 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: she is. I feel like the college bit of her 253 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: story does get glossed over sometimes. I was looking a 254 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 2: little bit deeper into it in our research here and 255 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: it's amazing. I mean, there's these two incredibly formative things 256 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 2: that happened to her while she's there at Stanford. Now, 257 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: the first was when she met a law professor named 258 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: Harry Rathman. And he was one of those professors who 259 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 2: would hold these informal gatherings at his home every Sunday. 260 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: He invites students to talk about the meaning of life 261 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 2: and all these other high minded matters. You might remember 262 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 2: that Sandra had enrolled as an econ major. I didn't, 263 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 2: but it was her encounters with Rathmann that convinced her 264 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 2: to change course. The professor would make these forceful arguments 265 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: about civic duty and the satisfaction that comes from serving 266 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: your community. And for Sandra, who'd grown up as this 267 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 2: independent cowgirl some like twenty five miles from her closest neighbor, 268 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 2: it really did strike a chord with her, so much 269 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: so that she decided to go to law school and 270 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 2: devote her life to public service. 271 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: I mean, it always comes down to a great professor, right, Yeah. 272 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: But okay, so what's the other life changing thing that 273 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: happens while Sander's in college. 274 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 2: Well after she graduated at the age of twenty Sandra 275 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 2: started attending Stanford Law School, which is actually where she 276 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 2: met the love of her life and future husband, and 277 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 2: that was John J. O'Connor, and their courtship story is 278 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 2: actually pretty cute, so I'm gonna share it here. So 279 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: John was a fellow law student and he and Sander 280 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: were assigned a project to work on together, and they 281 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 2: weren't quite finished when the library was closing up one night, 282 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 2: so John suggested they finish their work over a beer 283 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 2: at a little place he knew just down the road. 284 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: And apparently they really hit it off there, because you know, 285 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 2: not only did they do the same thing the next night, 286 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 2: they actually went out for a solid forty nights in 287 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: a row. 288 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: I never heard that. Did she ever take him home 289 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: to the ranch? 290 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: Oh? She did, and it was just as awkward as 291 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 2: you might expect. So the first time John came to 292 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: meet Sandra's parents, her father was actually branding some calves, 293 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 2: so they went down to the corral so John could 294 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 2: say hello to him. And now the thing to know 295 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 2: is that when male calves are branded, the ranchers generally 296 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 2: castrate them as well. 297 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: Oh no, so I think I know where this is going. 298 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 2: I'm willing to bet that you do not know where 299 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 2: this is going. In fact, I'm just gonna let Sandra 300 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: tell the story herself. So, according to her, when she 301 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 2: and John arrived, quote, my father put a few testicles 302 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: on some bailing wire and put them in a branding fire, 303 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 2: and he said, I'll just fix a few of these 304 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 2: for you, John, And John, to his credit, took the 305 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: things off the wire, popped him in his mouth and said, 306 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 2: very good, mister day, very good. 307 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: Oh and no, sauce, I. 308 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: Would be so far down the street by that. But 309 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 2: that is real love. And you know, Sandra obviously knew 310 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: John was a keeper at that point, so it's really 311 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: no surprise that they got married soon after. And that 312 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: was in nineteen fifty two, which happened to be the 313 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: same year they graduated from law school. 314 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: All right, well, what do you say we move off 315 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: the ranch and talk about Sandra's early law career. 316 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 2: That sounds great, but first let's take a quick break. 317 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: You're listening to part Time Genius and we're talking about 318 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 2: the life and times of Sandra Day O'Connor. All right, mango, 319 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 2: so I know we're leaving the Lazy b ranch behind, 320 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: but before we do that, I wanted to share one 321 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 2: last reflection on it from the woman herself, and this 322 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 2: is from a part in her memoir where she's recounting 323 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: what it was like to join her father and the 324 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 2: ranch crew on these roundups. You know, they had to 325 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: steer cattle sleeping out on the open range alongside a 326 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 2: bunch of cowboys. So Sander writes, it had been an 327 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: all male domain. Changing it to accommodate a female was 328 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: probably my first initiation into joining an all men's club, 329 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: something I did more than once in my life. After 330 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: the cowboys understood that a girl could hold up her end, 331 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 2: it was much easier for my sister, my niece, and 332 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 2: the other girls and young women who followed to be 333 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: accepted in that rough and tumble world. 334 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing to think she was really breaking down 335 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: barriers for women from the beginning. And it's definitely true 336 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: what she says about having to fight her way into 337 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: the boys clubs. I mean, Sandra was one of the 338 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: top students in her class at law school, and by 339 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: the way, she actually ranked third in her class, with 340 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: the top spot going to another future Scotus member, William Rehnquist. 341 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: But when she graduated, not a single law firm was 342 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: willing to hire her. In fact, when she did finally 343 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: land an interview with a California law firm, it was 344 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: only because of a favor of friend's father had given her. 345 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 2: And is that how she got her first job as 346 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: a lawyer. 347 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: No, that's not even the case. So when she went 348 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: to la for the interview, the firm made it clear 349 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: that they'd never hired a female lawyer before and they 350 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: didn't intend to start, And instead they asked her how 351 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: well she could type and offered to bring her on 352 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: as a legal secretary. 353 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: No way. Yeah, it's really crazy to think about how 354 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: recent a change it is to have women practicing law. 355 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: It only started happening in the US around World War Two, 356 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 2: like so many other fields, where women started taking these 357 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 2: jobs because the men were overseas. But even then the 358 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: change was exceedingly slow. Even by the time Sandra was 359 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: looking for work in the early nineteen fifties, only three 360 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 2: percent of the country's lawyers were women. The number has 361 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: risen a great deal since then, obviously thanks in no 362 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: small part, of course, to Sandra, but even now only 363 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: thirty three percent of the lawyers are female. 364 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: Which is staggering right, like I would imagine it was 365 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: much higher. But let's get back to Sandra's job hunt. 366 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: So the turning point came when she caught wind of 367 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: a firm in San Mateo that actually had a female 368 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: lawyer on staff. So she went to the office and 369 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: asked for a job, but the county attorney there said 370 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: they didn't have the budget for a new hire or 371 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: even a place for her to work. But Sandra knew 372 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: this was the only place where she'd be able to 373 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: get a foot in the door, so she actually convinced 374 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: the firm to take her on by agreeing to work 375 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: for free and to share desk space with the secretary. 376 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 2: I mean, you've got to admire her passion, but what 377 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 2: a raw deal. 378 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and things didn't really improve on the career front 379 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: for a while, so after marrying John, they moved to Phoenix, 380 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: where Sandra opened a little shop. It was this walk 381 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: in practice. It was in the Strip mall. As I 382 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: mentioned before, it was sort of like a better call 383 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 1: Saul situation, where people would wander in to ask off 384 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: end questions about I don't know, like the legality of 385 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: something their landlord did, or how to beat a speeding ticket. 386 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: And it's really kind of upsetting when you think about, like, 387 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: she's this incredible legal mind, third in her class. She 388 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: edits the law review at Stanford. You know, she keeps 389 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 1: up with this for a few years, all while getting 390 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: more and more involved with local Republican politics. 391 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's around this time that Sandra actually steps 392 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 2: away from her practice for I think it was like 393 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 2: five or six years a stay at home mom for 394 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 2: her three boys. And I'd say stay at home, but honestly, 395 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: Sanders stayed so busy with all these various volunteer, civic 396 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: and community groups that it's pretty much a misnomer to 397 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 2: say stay at home. I mean, listen to the rap 398 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 2: sheet that I was looking at here, it says O'Connor 399 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,199 Speaker 2: served on the Governor's Committee on Marriage and Family, as 400 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: an administrative assistant at the Arizona State Hospital. She volunteered 401 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 2: at a school for minorities. She wrote test questions for 402 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 2: the Arizona Bar Exam, acted as an advisor to the 403 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 2: Salvation Army. 404 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't sound like she did too much staying 405 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,479 Speaker 1: at home, not at all. And after the kids were 406 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 1: a little older, she went right back to work in earnest. 407 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: At first, she was a part time assistant for the 408 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: attorney general because no private firm was willing to hire 409 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 1: her yet. But then the Arizona governor was so impressed 410 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: with her work that he appointed her to a vacant 411 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: seat in the state Senate, and the next year, in 412 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, Sandra formally won the seat, and just a 413 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: few months later, her fellow Republicans voted her in as 414 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: America's first female state majority leader. 415 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 2: Oh, it's pretty amazing. Well, she's got all kinds of 416 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: first under her belt when you look at the list, 417 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: As you know, I'm always so impressed by the way 418 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 2: she was able to apply experience, you know, as a 419 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 2: mother and a homemaker to this role as a stateswoman. Really, actually, 420 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to quote the mental flaw story you mentioned earlier, 421 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 2: and this is from Lizzie Jacob's riding. O'Connor knew what 422 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 2: she wanted to remove sexism from the books. She searched 423 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,639 Speaker 2: for laws biased against women and quietly worked to change them. 424 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 2: The Republicans had a razor thin majority, negotiations were essential. 425 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 2: She regularly hosted parties at her Adobe house, inviting leaders 426 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 2: from all sides to eat homemade burritos, not to broke 427 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 2: her deals, but to get to know one another. Her 428 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: cooking was legendary, but it worked. She was all business. 429 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: I'd forgotten that, and I want to eat homemade burritos 430 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: at Sanders House too, And you're right. It's amazing how 431 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: she was able to balance all these different responsibilities without compromise. 432 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: And actually that pretty much takes us up to the 433 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: time when President Reagan tapped her to replace the retiring 434 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: Justice Stewart. 435 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, she was serving on the Arizona State Court of 436 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,719 Speaker 2: Appeals when she was invited to Washington to meet the 437 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 2: president back in nineteen eighty one, and she really didn't 438 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 2: want to go, but the two hit it off off 439 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 2: right away. They were swapping stories about horse riding and 440 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 2: the Western way of life. And as we've talked about before, 441 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 2: Reagan had won the woman's vote by campaigning on this 442 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 2: promise that he would nominate a woman to the Supreme Court, 443 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: and in Sandra, he found the perfect candidate. 444 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: So I know there's a lot of Reagan worship for 445 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of different reasons, but one of the things 446 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: I found fascinating and hearing this story was that his 447 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: advisors were actively telling him he didn't have to keep 448 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 1: his promise, like there was so much swirling at the 449 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: time politically. This was even the year that he was 450 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: shot in that assassination attempt, and his advisors claimed just 451 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,239 Speaker 1: having a woman on the list was enough to you know, 452 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: appease his voters. But to Reagan's credit, he kept his word. 453 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: And of course conservatives like Philis Schaffey and Jerry Folwell 454 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 1: they started this write in to protest the nomination. But 455 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: once she was sworn in, the then fifty one year 456 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: old O'Connor set herself apart not only by her gender 457 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: and relative youth, but also with this level headed approach 458 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: to cases. As one of her cleric saw, ron Ell 459 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: Anderson Jones later recalled, quote eternally a ranch girl. She 460 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: wanted solutions that really worked and had little patience for 461 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: esoteric theory that had no grounding in reality. 462 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 2: Well, and that's something we see from the start of 463 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 2: her time on the bench, you know. For example, the 464 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 2: Supreme Court heard a case in nineteen eighty two called 465 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 2: Mississippi University for Women Versus Hogan. This was a case 466 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 2: where a male student, Hogan was suing because he'd been 467 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 2: denied admission to an all female nursing school, and O'Connor 468 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: actually sided with the student, believing that the gender based 469 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 2: enrollment policy was invalid. She said, because it, you know, 470 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 2: it tends to perpetuate the stereotype view of nursing as 471 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 2: this exclusively women's job. And so rather than siding with 472 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 2: the women of the college in the short term, O'Connor 473 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 2: was taking a practical approach and think about helping them 474 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: break down the stigma that surrounded this nursing profession. And 475 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 2: not only that, O'Connor later alluded to the ruling as 476 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: a way to potentially boost the pay rates, you know, 477 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 2: for all these nurses and thinking about doing so with 478 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 2: this influx of male nurses. That was, you know, kind 479 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: of turning the gender wage gap to the women's advantage 480 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 2: as much as possible. 481 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty clever, and we should definitely talk more 482 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: about some of her work on the bench. You know, 483 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: she was there for twenty plus years, not to mention 484 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: the legacy she left behind after retiring. But first, how 485 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: about we take a quick break. 486 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 2: All right, mango, it's quiz time. 487 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 3: Now. 488 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,879 Speaker 2: We've got a listener on the line, a regular listener 489 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 2: of Part Time Genius, who actually wrote to us telling 490 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: us about her love of sloths after we did a 491 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: nine things on sloths, and she's on the line with 492 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 2: us right now. Katie Coile, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 493 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:43,640 Speaker 3: Hi guys, happy to be here. 494 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: All right, Katie, you have to tell us why do 495 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,919 Speaker 2: you love sloths so much? And was there anything that 496 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 2: we missed in that episode that you feel like our 497 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 2: listeners need to know? 498 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 3: You know, I think I love slots specifically because Charles 499 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 3: Darwin and Survival of the Fit should have gotten them already, 500 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 3: but they're still kicking and they are a relic of evolution. 501 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 3: And once you tell people you love slops, you get 502 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 3: slap gifts for every possible holiday. So I get a 503 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 3: little too deep in to give up now, you know. 504 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 2: I feel like that's true because we've known a couple 505 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: of sloth lovers and are actually especially at Mental Floss, 506 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 2: and it did feel like anytime a special occasion came around, 507 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 2: everyone was giving them sloth gifts. 508 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 3: It makes me easier to shop for, so I'm really 509 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 3: helping everyone. 510 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: Wow, that's so thoughtful of you. And we decided to 511 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 2: have Katie on for today's quiz because she has a 512 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 2: very special connection to the Supreme Court. Katie, tell us 513 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 2: what that is. 514 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 3: Ruth Vader Ginsberg and I are both sorority sisters. We're 515 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 3: very good friends. Obviously. 516 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,479 Speaker 2: Well that's awesome. Well, let's get started with the quiz. 517 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: Number one. Justice Thirgood Marshall was addicted to Days of 518 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: Our Lives and would often call a recess set one 519 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 2: PM to watch his stories. Supreme or not Supreme? 520 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 3: Please let that be supreme? 521 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: It is? His wife claimed he would watch anything on TV, 522 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: from wrestling to news to talk shows, but he especially 523 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: loved Days of Our Lives. 524 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 2: One for one question number two. The Justices enjoy celebrating 525 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 2: each other's birthdays, and for years, Ruth Bader Ginsberg's husband, Martin, 526 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: made all the cakes for everyone's birthday. Supreme or not Supreme? 527 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 3: Supreme? 528 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Marty's fondness for the kitchen began shortly 529 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: after RVG cooked her first meal for him. 530 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 2: Apparently you're doing pretty well so far, Katie. All right, 531 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: let's see question number three. Since nineteen ninety six, lawyers 532 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: who argue a case before the Supreme Court get a 533 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 2: special keepsake, a Supreme Court sleep mask that reads justice 534 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 2: is blind. Supreme or not supreme? 535 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: That sounds a little too weird. I'm going to say 536 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 3: not supreme. 537 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: You're right. They don't get a sleep mask, but each 538 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: council does get two white feather quill pens for their effort. 539 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 2: All right, good job, Okay, two left, number four. There's 540 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,879 Speaker 2: an image of Mohammed on the side of the Supreme Court. 541 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 2: Supreme or not supreme? 542 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 3: You know, despite separation of church and state. I feel 543 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 3: like that might be supreme for whatever reason. 544 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: You' doing. Amazing, Katie, It's true. While depictions of Mohammad 545 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: are rare, the prophet is depicted in a relief with 546 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: other lawmakers and icons of justice, including Solomon, Moses, Confucius, 547 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: and HAMMARAVII. 548 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 2: All right, let's see if we can bring it home 549 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 2: with the final question and go five for five. Here 550 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 2: we go. Justice Renquist loved the musical West Side Story 551 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: so much that he often wore a tiny shark pin 552 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 2: on his robes. Supreme or not supreme. 553 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 3: As much as I want that to be true, I'm 554 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 3: going to say that's not supreme. 555 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,360 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Katie, you went five for five. You're 556 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 1: absolutely right. He wasn't a West side story fan that 557 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: we know, but he was a huge Gilbert and Sullivan fan, 558 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: and he actually stitched gold stripes on his robe sleeves 559 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: as a tribute to it. And he was also a 560 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: notoriously bad dresser. 561 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 2: Wow. All right, so how did how did Katie do today? Mango? 562 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: She ran the table and went five for five, which 563 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: gets her the big prize, an official PTG Certificate of Genius, 564 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: and a part time Genius T shirt. 565 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: Congrasts, Katie, that's wonderful. Well, thanks so much for joining 566 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 2: us today, Katie. 567 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 3: Thank you? 568 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: Okay, Mango. 569 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: So what else do you want to cover from O'Connor's 570 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: time on the Supreme Court? 571 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: Well, I was always struck by the times when she 572 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 1: seemed to go her own way on what are typically 573 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: partisan issues. I mean, don't get me wrong. O'Connor was 574 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: a moderate conservative, and she tended to vote as such 575 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: for the most part, but she also had a reputation 576 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: for caring more about how legal matters would affect individuals 577 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: than she did for towing the party line or even 578 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: rigidly adhering to legal president. For instance, O'Connor bucked conservative 579 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: expectations in nineteen ninety two, and this is when the 580 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: court had to decide whether it was constitutional to require 581 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: women to notify their spouses before getting an abortion, and 582 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: in her written opinion, O'Connor called the measure quote repugnant 583 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: to our present understanding of marriage and of the nature 584 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: of the rights secured by the Constitution. Women do not 585 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: lose the constitutionally protected liberty when they marry. 586 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that. And she actually cast the deciding 587 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 2: vote to uphold row, if you remember, and drew a 588 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 2: lot of iron from her Republican colleagues. 589 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, O'Connor was responsible for the determining vote of 590 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: a lot of five to four decisions, and this gave 591 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: her a reputation as a swing vote, since you really 592 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: couldn't predict where she'd come down on some of the 593 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: more divisive issues. But she really hated that term. 594 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's something I didn't remember, but found that interesting 595 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 2: in doing the research for the episode. But she never 596 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 2: liked being called a swing vote because she thought implied 597 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 2: that maybe she liked principles and was kind of flighty 598 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: or fickle in the way she made her decisions. And 599 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 2: so she was both praised and criticized for casting these 600 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 2: really narrow opinions, And she wasn't as interested in writing law. 601 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 2: She wasn't deciding a case. So she actually listened case 602 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 2: by case, and people who have argued in front of 603 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: her said they really couldn't tell which way she would 604 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: go just because she she truly took each case as 605 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: a learning activity. 606 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, agree with him or not. She definitely 607 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: had principles and I mean just look at some of 608 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: her opinions during the George W. Bush administration. In two thousand, 609 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 1: she cast the deciding vote that ended the Florida recount 610 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: for the contested presidential race. But then in two thousand 611 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: and four, she went against the man she helped elect 612 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: when she faced the Hamdi versus Rumsfeld case. And this 613 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: was the one where the court was tasked with deciding 614 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: whether an American citizen is still entitled a due process 615 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 1: after being named an enemy combandant by the president. 616 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 2: So O'Connor in this one, she voted in favor of 617 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 2: due process right. 618 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, And in her opinions, she reminded her party that 619 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: a state of war is not a blank check for 620 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: the president when it comes to the rights of the 621 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: nation citizens. 622 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, we've talked a good bit today 623 00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 2: about O'Connor's rough and tumble upbringing and her determination in 624 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: the face of unfair treatment. But I did want to 625 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: touch a little bit on some of her softer, more 626 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,959 Speaker 2: playful qualities, because you know, it's the side of Supreme 627 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: Court justices that we don't really see that much of, honestly. 628 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: Sure, So what kind of stuff are you thinking of? 629 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 2: Well? I kind of like that even though she had 630 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 2: the same work ethic as her father, she still took 631 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: the time to relax a little bit. You know. For instance, 632 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: she was an avid tennis player, so for most of 633 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 2: the year she was on the bench, she would plan 634 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 2: this week long vacation in July where she and seven 635 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 2: of her friends from Arizona. They dubbed themselves the Mobile 636 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: Party Unit. They'd get together to play tennis and golf, 637 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: as well as go horseback riding even whitewater rafting together. 638 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: I love that. Another story I like is how O'Connor 639 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: commandeer the Supreme Court's basketball court so she could hold 640 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: these women only yoga and aerobics classes. 641 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 2: Wait, I think we need to pause for a seconds. 642 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 2: So there's a Supreme Court there, there's a basketball court 643 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 2: at the Supreme Court. 644 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's called the highest court in the land and 645 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: it's located on the fifth floor of the Supreme Court building. 646 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: I get it. 647 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: It used to be just this place for old legal 648 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: journals like that's where these the story. But in the 649 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 1: nineteen forties some courthouse workers converted into a workout area, 650 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: and then it was later turned into this full basketball court. 651 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: And apparently O'Connor didn't want to give up the exercise 652 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: routine she'd gotten used to in Arizona, and once she 653 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: found out that other women there in the building wanted 654 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: a place to work out as well, she booked the 655 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: gym and asked the YWCA to send over an instructor 656 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: to help them start up a class. I mean, the 657 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: class really took off and they started meeting daily and 658 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: they even got custom printed T shirts that read women 659 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: work out at the Supreme Court. Isn't that awesome? 660 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 2: I loeve is she co opted what must have been 661 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 2: a pretty male dominated space before she came onto the 662 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 2: scene there though, it just feels fitting seeing who she 663 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 2: is it Actually it also reminds me of an interview 664 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 2: I read about O'Connor where there was no women's bathroom 665 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 2: at the Supreme Court when she first arrived, and the 666 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: closest one was way down this hallway, far from the 667 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 2: actual courtroom. So once again, in trough O'Connor fashion, she 668 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 2: just took over the men's restroom near her chambers. 669 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it's crazy to think about, right, but 670 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: I guess it was close to two hundred years before 671 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court finally got a female justice, so it 672 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: wasn't something they'd ever planned for. 673 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it just underscores how much of a trailblazer 674 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: O'Connor really was. I mean, she once remarked, it's all 675 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 2: right to be the first to do something, but I 676 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 2: certainly didn't want to be the last woman on the 677 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 2: Supreme Court, and of course, thankfully she wasn't. And you know, 678 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: the current sitting Supreme Court actually includes three women. Of course, 679 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 2: there's Ruth Bader Ginsburg Soda Soda Mayor and Elena Kagan 680 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 2: And O'Connor herself retired back in two thousand and five. 681 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 2: As you may remember, she was caring for her husband, John, 682 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 2: who'd been suffering for a while from Alzheimer's. 683 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, which, you know, it seems totally in keeping with 684 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: the high value she's always placed on family, although she 685 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: did continue to juggle projects well into her retirement. In 686 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, she started this free online civics 687 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: education program. It's called is Civics. It's for middle schoolers. 688 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: It basically allows students to research and argue actual cases 689 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: and to take part in these mockups of realistic government situations. 690 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: And according to O'Connor, this venture to make learning civics 691 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: fun is one of the most important things she's ever done. 692 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 2: And so how did she do that? 693 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 1: Well, she turned it into a video game. Oh really, yeah, 694 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: So here's how she explained the idea to parade. What 695 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: we know is that kids like to play games on 696 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: the computer. So I set up an advisory group of 697 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 1: fabulous teachers to tell me what we needed to focus 698 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: on in a civics course, and then we had games 699 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: designed that focus on those parameters. Young people spend an 700 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: average of forty hours a week in front of a screen. 701 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: One or two hours a week would do to teach 702 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: them civics and it seems to be working. I mean, 703 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: Isivic is actually used by educators in all fifty states 704 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: and about five million students use it each year. 705 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 2: That's pretty awesome. Well, then after a lifetime of public service, 706 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 2: it is inspiring that she still feels this drive to 707 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 2: help spark the next generation's sense of civic duty. You know, 708 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 2: given her track record, it's exactly what I would expect 709 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 2: from her. And as she once put it, I'm not 710 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 2: accustomed to sitting around and doing nothing, that's for sure. 711 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 1: And now, what do you say we follow her lead 712 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: and keep ourselves busy with a good old fashioned fact. 713 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 2: Off, you know what, Mango, I say. This fact off 714 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 2: is now in session. 715 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: So I'm not sure if you watched the Senate hearings 716 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: with Justice Roberts, but it was a little frustrating from 717 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: the outside because he refused to show any of his 718 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: opinions and his claim was that he needed the details 719 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: of the case before he could speak about anything. And 720 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: this has kind of become a fairly common and smart 721 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: tactic for justices trying to be confirmed. But what's interesting 722 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: is that Justice O'Connor actually used the same tactic during 723 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: her hearings decades prior, and you could tell from her 724 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: opinions that she really believed that she needed the details 725 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: and that they truly mattered. But one of the lawyers 726 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: who assisted her for that hearing was a young Justice Roberts. 727 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 2: Well, there's another thing I love about her judiciary hearing, 728 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,479 Speaker 2: and it she took the time to introduce her three 729 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 2: sons to the chamber. She probably listed out where they'd 730 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: gone to school, what they'd majored in, their hobbies and accomplishments, 731 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 2: you know, like being a state swimming champ and skydiving, 732 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 2: or being like the family writer. I mean, did all 733 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 2: of these things she took the time to do. Isn't 734 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:07,959 Speaker 2: that pretty amazing? 735 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: I love that. So one thing I love is how 736 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: playful she could be. So in two thousand and one 737 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: she made a guest appearance at the Shakespeare Theater in 738 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: DC where they put King Lear on trial and apparently 739 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: her verdict was not mad all right? 740 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 2: Well, did you know that she had a pet bobcat 741 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 2: in her youth. Apparently she tamed one on her ranch 742 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,240 Speaker 2: back home. That's nuts. 743 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 1: So there was a New York Times piece that said 744 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: sander Dale O'Connor was the hardest judge to clerk for. 745 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: And as you might guess, she wanted to know everything 746 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: and she wanted to be fully able to defend any 747 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: side of any opinion she made. So she really worked 748 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: her staff, but she also deliberated an extraordinary amount over 749 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: who she chose, like she picked clerks from a wide 750 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: range of universities and across the political spectrum, because she 751 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: both wanted rigorous candidates, but she also wanted to be 752 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:56,439 Speaker 1: challenged in her thoughts as well. 753 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,799 Speaker 2: Well. I did read on the other side of that, 754 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 2: I guess you could say is that she would really 755 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 2: close to her clerks. She'd organized these picnics to see 756 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 2: the cherry blossoms, or host these jack o lantern carving parties, 757 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 2: and even asked to see pictures and get updates on 758 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 2: all of her grand clerks, as she called them. 759 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,239 Speaker 1: So here's a story that's kind of sweet and heartbreaking. 760 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: Santade O'Connor cut her career short to be with her husband, 761 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,359 Speaker 1: who had severe Alzheimer's because she wanted to take care 762 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: of him and make his life more comfortable. And when 763 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: he went to a facility, he actually started a romance 764 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: with a fellow patient. This is something that a lot 765 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: of people with Alzheimer's do, but for her that meant 766 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: supporting him through that as well. And as she put it, 767 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: he was in a cottage and there was a woman 768 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: who kind of attached herself to him. It was nice 769 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 1: for him to have someone who was there to sometimes 770 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 1: hold his hand and keep him company. And I'm glad. 771 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 2: Wow, that is heartbreaking. All right, Well, here's a fun one, 772 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 2: a very different note. Did you know Sanderday O'Connor is 773 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,799 Speaker 2: in the Cowgirl Hall of Fame? Id you know there 774 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 2: was the Cowgirl Hall of Fame. Well, in her bio 775 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 2: she talks about how she learned to ride and shoot 776 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 2: a gun by the age of eight. And for the record, 777 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 2: she's the only Supreme Court justice in the Cowgirl Hall 778 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,919 Speaker 2: of Fame, but you know the door is wide open 779 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 2: for future cowgirls to join her. 780 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: I like that and I like ending on something up feet. 781 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: So what do you say you take this week's trophy? 782 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 2: All right? Well, thanks so much. Well, if we have 783 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 2: missed any facts about Sandra Day O'Connor, or any Supreme 784 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,839 Speaker 2: Court justices for that matter, we would love to hear 785 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 2: from you. You can always email us part time genius at 786 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 2: HowStuffWorks dot com or call on our twenty four to 787 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 2: seven fact hotline that's one eight four four pt Genius. 788 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 2: You can also hit us up on Facebook or Twitter. 789 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 2: But thanks so much for listening. Thanks again for listening. 790 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 2: Part Time Genius is a production of how stuff works 791 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 2: and wouldn't be possible without several brilliant people who do 792 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 2: the important things we couldn't even begin to understand. 793 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: Tristan McNeil does the editing thing. 794 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 2: Noel Brown made the theme song and does the mixy 795 00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 2: mixy sound thing. 796 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: Jerry does the exact producer thing. 797 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 2: Gabe Lozier is our lead researcher, with support from the 798 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 2: Research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and Lucas Adams and. 799 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: Eves Jeff Coote gets the show to your ears. Good job, Eves. 800 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 2: If you like what you heard, we hope you'll subscribe, 801 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 2: and if you really really like what you've heard, maybe 802 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 2: you could leave a good review for us. 803 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: Did we forget Jason? 804 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 2: Jason who