WEBVTT - Undetermined — Libby Caswell E2 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:03.360 Originals. 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:09.440 This is an iHeart original. This story can be hard 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.360 to hear. There's detailed talk of suicide and violence, but 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.200 we think it's important not to gloss over the reality 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.120 of what happened to Libby Caswell. Please take care while listening. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:27.760 I'm holding in my hands a green spiral notebook that 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.560 Libby used to document the last few months of her life. 0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:33.879 I got it from her mom, Cindy, who found it 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.720 in the trunk of Libby's car after her death. Thumbing 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.200 through the notebook, a lot of the pages are filled 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:46.720 with basic adulting stuff, detailed grocery lists, appointment reminders. Libby 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:48.839 was due for an oil change, and from what I 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.479 can make of her notes, she either was planning to 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:53.840 or had already gone to a clinic to get the 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:57.600 depot shot, a form of birth control. Cindy told me 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.319 Christmas was Libby's favorite holiday, and in the notebook it's 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.920 obvious her shopping list for Xavier, who was four, spread 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:09.679 out over a number of pages. On one page, a 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:16.560 toy car, air Jordan's, a swing set. On another, fidget toys, chocolate, Peeps, 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:22.200 Superman pajamas. Libby decorated these lists with sketches of Christmas 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:26.640 trees surrounded by presence and snowmen. It's unclear if she 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.720 ever bought any of these gifts. She died on December eleventh, 0:01:30.880 --> 0:01:40.240 twenty seventeen. Paging through Libby's notebook, I stumbled on a 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:45.000 date written now incursive, March nineteenth. I realized I'd seen 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:48.760 it a few times before on Libby's Facebook page, shortened 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.760 to three nineteen. When I asked Cindy about this, she 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.840 told me it was the anniversary of Libby's first date 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:57.040 with her boyfriend Devin. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.520 They went with his family. They had a real nice 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.480 blue minivan. First they went to eat, and then they 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.200 went and seen a movie. And I don't remember the movie. 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:08.480 Well, I think we went to see Where the Wild 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:09.000 Things Are. 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:11.640 That's Jamie, Devin's stepmom. 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:12.320 Oh. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.359 We were howling like the wild things do at the 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.359 end movie in the theater, and I remember Devin being 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.959 so embarrassed. I remember him telling me and Charlie the 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.720 Dax's who he was going to marry at fourteen years old, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.560 and we were like, you know, you're so young, and da, da, dad, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.160 you have so much to go through, And you know, 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:29.400 then it all started. 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.000 That first date Libby and Devon were only freshmen in 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:36.880 high school. For the next six years, the number three 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:40.560 nineteen took on an almost sacred significance to Libby, who 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.919 scrawled it everywhere like an incantation. 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.919 She would do doodles you know of three nineteen eleven 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:54.880 Devin and Libby. 0:02:55.280 --> 0:03:02.839 Devin loves Sleepy, Laby loves Devon is a fun through win. 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:16.400 So what she was totally infatuated, however you want to 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:18.520 say it, totally wrapped up in it. 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:23.600 The number three nineteen has an entirely different connotation to 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:28.079 Cindy now, one very far removed from those early idyllic 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:33.359 feelings of obsession and puppy love, because now that number 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:37.320 is inextricably linked with the room where police found Libby's body, 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:39.680 the room at the sports stadium in. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.400 I didn't know anything about the room until we received 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:47.160 our first reports, and then when I saw that, that's 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:49.960 when I was like, oh my god, it was it 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:52.600 was room three nineteen. 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:54.520 Maybe Devon rented that room. 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.720 They specifically asked for that room because of something. Maybe 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:01.480 it was random. They just got that room, you know, 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:02.240 I wanted to know. 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:19.640 Watch from iHeart Podcasts. I'm Melissa Jelson, and this is 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:21.440 what happened to Libby Caswell. 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:24.919 His first inclination was it was homicide. 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.240 He was crying and I said, and I was like, man, 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:28.920 what happened? 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:33.560 They asked me my name and it was I Cindy 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.640 Caswell and tuck him. 0:04:36.520 --> 0:04:38.679 A minute to get it out of it, and he said, 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.360 my wife upon herself and. 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.360 My heart just kind of froze. 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:58.960 Watch God see chapter two undetermined. 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.960 Then undetector Shirley raised department put so. 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:12.440 Forrmonia, Yeah, okay, once you want to detect his head 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.880 in Okay to his apartment. 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:21.440 On the evening of December eleventh, twenty seventeen, three hours 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:24.359 after calling nine one one to report Libby's death and 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.200 then leaving the scene, Devon Martin arrives at the Independence 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:32.400 Police Department in Libby's car. When he enters the station, 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.520 he's taken into a small, drab room to make a 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:40.800 formal statement. Although he comes involuntarily, he's immediately arrested on 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.360 a handful of outstanding traffic tickets and read his rights. 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.840 You have right ring silent. Anything you say cannot be used. 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.080 Mansion a courterwall. You eight to talk to him. Thirty 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.040 fourth question and have him president. 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.599 I obtained a video of Devin's interview with IPD through 0:05:56.600 --> 0:06:00.440 a Freedom of Information Act request. The original tape is 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:04.400 around fifty five minutes long, but for length and clarity purposes, 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.960 I'm using just parts of it and playing some of 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:11.200 it out of order. In the grainy footage, Devin looks upset. 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.080 He's sweating, jittery, and doesn't seem to know what to 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:17.840 do with his hands. He thrust them into the front 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.080 pocket of his hoodie. He rubs his face. 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.560 Let's start from the beginning, Okay. Like I said, I 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.279 want you to be detailed. Wants to be honest, Okay, 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:32.000 because I mean this is a deafitty. Have slow take 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.320 death investigations with her seriously, okay, and what I need how. 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:36.040 To use the honest. 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.560 Detective Steve Schmidley had been at the motel earlier in 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.080 the night investigating the scene when Devin called nine one 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.760 one for the second time to say he'd talked to police, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.440 so Schmidley headed back to the station to interview him. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.640 And here he refers to Libby by her full name, 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:55.040 Elizabeth Caswell. 0:06:55.680 --> 0:07:04.080 She's Elizabeth Caswealthy. I'm doing that son's daughter. Bring to 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:05.599 get married in March. 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.200 Devin's voice is soft, like he's on the verge of tears. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.760 It's a little hard to understand what he's saying, but 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.960 he tells the detective he and Libby have a child 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:19.680 together and they were going to get married in three 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:20.240 months time. 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.240 Would you guys get would you check into this. 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:29.920 Mot Devin tells Detective Schmidley that he arrived at the 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.760 sports stadium in early that morning. He was with Libby 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:37.240 and another friend of theirs, Nick, and they were driving 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:40.480 in Libby's car, a black forward fusion. Some of this, 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.120 like what time they checked in, police already know from 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:48.680 accessing motel records, but establishing a timeline of events that 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:53.080 day is critical, as police aren't sure exactly when Libby died. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:58.000 There is an almost fourteen hour period of time between 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.320 when the three friends arrived at the moto all that 0:08:00.400 --> 0:08:03.200 morning and when Devin called nine one one that evening 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.239 that is unknown to police. 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.360 You get there this morning, what do you guys do 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:12.960 most of day? 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.400 Okay, So my friend Nick hung out with us until 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.560 about maybe maybe eighty nine o'clock in the morning, eight 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:26.600 thirty when they left and I took a shower and. 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:28.360 I get out of the shower, and she said she 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:29.160 was going to take a shower. 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.160 And I remember because we had been up all night 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.440 the night before, and I remember laying on the bed 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:41.800 and passing out, but fell asleep and I probably woke up, 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:42.199 and it. 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.080 Was it's probably around eight thirty I think roughly. 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.840 What time do you think you fell asleep on the beat, 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.560 I would say between ten and eleven o'clock ten am 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.480 and eleven am this morning, and then at that point 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:01.160 you were maimed asleep the entire times that you woke 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:02.000 up this evening. 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.959 Sir Devin says he was asleep for more than eight 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:10.600 hours and when he woke up, he noticed Libby wasn't around, 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:11.360 and I. 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:13.200 Remember looking she went in the room. 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.200 So I went to take the bathroom and my belt 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:18.839 was the top of it takes to my belt sitting 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:20.760 out at the top of the door. And when I 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:25.360 opened the door, she fell forward and picked her up, 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.840 and her thin was so pale and. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:31.880 Her lips were blue. 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:33.960 I'm sorry, man, that's okay. 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.720 Ryan, Oh, I can't believe this, No, this is real. 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:43.880 Devin gets emotional here. He's just told Schmidley that he 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.240 woke up, looked around for Libby and saw his belt 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.800 peeking out from the top of the closed bathroom door. 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:54.320 When he opened the door, Libby's body fell to the ground. 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:59.160 The detective leans back, taking it all in, then starts 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:03.640 to recap, but Devon interrupts to tell him about something 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:06.360 else that happened right before he went to sleep. 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.560 Him you got in the shower and you went to bed, 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:15.040 and we had the orde about my drug use. That's 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.199 what we argue about. That was this morning before you 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:18.720 went to bed. 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:19.520 Yeah, right, I. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:20.360 Forget out a shower. 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:25.120 This is information that IPD had already gathered. One of 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.240 the cops spoke to a guest staying in the room 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.320 next door who heard a loud argument between a man 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.520 and a woman. According to Devon, their fight was over 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.800 his continued use of methamphetamine. Drugs were a constant source 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:43.120 of tension between the couple. Schmidley doesn't seem very surprised 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:46.320 to learn about Devn's drug use, and it's likely this 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:50.760 was a pretty familiar story to him. Independence, Missouri has 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.800 a long history with meth which I'll get into later, 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:57.640 and the sports stadium in It's not a particularly nice 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.960 place to stay in the year later. Up to Livy's death, 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.640 IPD had been called there more than one hundred and 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:09.200 fifty times for theft, assault, and incidents involving drugs. Schmidley 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:13.360 himself had responded on a handful of occasions. The detective 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:17.000 doesn't linger on Devin's drug use, but before he can 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:21.160 get to his next question, Devin pivots again and offers 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.280 some more unprompted information about Libby and her mental state. 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:30.760 I didn't think she would ever do it. 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.840 You know, she was probably without killing herself the day before, 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:38.439 but it was like she okays a lot of times 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:39.240 when she says. 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:39.720 That, you know, I don't. 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.920 So she talked about killing herself today because the work. Yeah, yes, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.920 why just because of our situation she set up with. 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.520 We have boss Christy and our son Ashley. I stay 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.560 at christ the other but he presides with her mother, 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:58.800 and we were going to get everything strange. 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:05.280 Not still, the custody situation with their son was complicated, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.000 and I'll get to it later. But the picture Devin 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:12.119 paints of Libby is of a depressed mother, forcibly separated 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:16.320 from her son and frustrated by her boyfriend's drug problem. 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:20.240 Devin's story provides a reason why Libby might have taken 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:23.280 her own life. Then he offers up his own theory 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.800 for how she did it. Remember, Devin never says he 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.880 actually saw Libby hanging because the bathroom door was closed, 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.400 but he tells the detective that he thinks his belt 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:38.319 was too long to have kept her feet off the ground. 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.680 I'm really trying to understand it all because there's no 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.640 way she going to hurt herself from the door, you know, 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.560 Like howter she's hung there with my belts long. 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:51.160 Have been on the dround. 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:55.480 It's an odd fact. I've puzzled over it too, But 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.880 Devin had an answer for Detective Schmidley. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.400 So I've been sitting kind of thankfully we're gonna how 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:03.360 could it have happened? 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:07.880 I'm taking maybe she put it in the door and 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:10.079 like chi until. 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:12.240 She passed out, because went out opened the door, she 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:13.160 fell forward. 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.560 Devin later tells the detective this is something he'd seen 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:20.840 Libby do before, put a belt around her neck and 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.000 pretend like she was strangling herself. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.440 I mean when they were younger, and so she would 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:28.559 have like you know, we in arguments up and she would. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.760 Have like she's chunking herself with the belt. 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.040 Actually, Detective Schmidley asked Stephen what he did after he 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:36.360 found Libby's body. 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:38.400 Graded her. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.560 I didn't notice the belt but around her neck until 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.600 after I'd pulled her apartment and she was so sick. 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:53.959 So I'm sorry. 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:55.600 Now you're fine, You're fine. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:57.200 So poor baby? 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:02.200 Well, oh man, So what do you do at that point? 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.400 Oncebably you assume okay, they break it out. 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.120 I just same Tuesday. 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.400 I try to undo the belt a little bit where 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.959 I keep Field close to something and I think I'm 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.520 taking too much and cut it. Okay, Fields, So I 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.400 cold mourn. How are your shock? And I got in 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:25.760 the car and I went to my dad. 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.400 Devin's explanation. He was in shock, so he drove to 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:35.560 his dad's. It might sound bizarre, but in my experience 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.960 as a journalist covering traumatic events, people can act in 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:42.280 all kinds of unexpected ways. You don't really know how 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.880 you'll respond to a tragedy until it happens to you. 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.200 You may think you'll become act rationally, but when was 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:52.800 the last time you found a dead body? Schmidly, in 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.440 any case, seems to listen to this story without much judgment. 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:00.720 He doesn't question Devin's decision to run or express much 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.440 curiosity about where he went. He notes it and moves on. 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.760 But there's another detective in the room who up until 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.320 now has just been listening, and he's more skeptical. 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:20.960 You see how this looks suspicious at it. That's why 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:21.360 I'm here. 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:24.320 That's why I'm here, you know. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.720 By this point in the interview, Devon has been sitting 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:50.880 inside a small interrogation room for about forty minutes. This 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.320 is what IPD has learned so far. Devin and Libby 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.080 and another friend, nick checked into the sports stadiumen early 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.880 that morning. After nick Le, Devin and Libby fought about 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.560 his drug use. Devon went to sleep sometime that morning 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.280 and Libby headed into the shower. Devin woke up around 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.400 eight pm, walked over to the bathroom and saw the 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.760 end of his belt sticking out over the top of 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.920 the door. He opened the door and Libby's body fell 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:22.600 to the ground inside the bathroom. He touched her body 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.240 to see if she was alive, and then panicking, he 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:33.920 called nine one one and then drove away. Detective Schmidley's 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:40.040 tone throughout the interview is relaxed and understanding, almost conciliatory 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:42.760 if he has any real issues or concerns with Devin's 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:46.760 version of events. He doesn't say anything, but as the 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:51.520 conversation proceeds, the other detective jumps in Prod's Devin a 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:54.720 little harder. Classic good cop, bad cop. 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:01.680 D See how this looks suspicious, Devin, just by you leaving? 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:05.560 Yeah, yeah, that's why I'm here. That's why I'm here. 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.119 You know, I don't want to. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:13.320 We've investigated a lot of definitely I mean detecta Schmidley 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:13.560 and I. 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:16.560 You know, we have a lot of experience, and some 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:18.280 are very. 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:23.120 Obvious suicidal you know, suicide deaths, and some are not 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:23.840 so obvious. 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:28.000 Absolutely, and Jaran Man, I promise you I would not 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.520 I would not ever do anything to harm her physically. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:35.159 I would prevent her from being harmed physically with my. 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.080 Now, there is going to be an autosy, you know 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:37.880 that they can. 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.720 Determine absolutely, and how would actually get the results? 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:42.879 When do you think that autosy, of course, is going 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.560 to indicate because she had trained herself. 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.119 You see how it's kind of suspicious. 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.560 A little bit because we have witnesses say that you 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.200 are arguing with her. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.840 That day and like I said we had gotten into 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.840 an argument that morning. Okay, I would not do nothing 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:00.960 to her in my. 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:02.200 Wife, I understand. 0:18:02.359 --> 0:18:03.640 I'm not trying to say you're a tout. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.120 I just I'm trying to explain expressed that you. 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:07.040 And I understand that. 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.040 I just want to I just want you to know 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:14.399 that that it's just a little suspicious. 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.359 Of how you reacted, which you know most people would 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:18.360 stick around. 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:20.919 Look to be honest with you, I've never had a 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:22.560 good incouterance police stand. 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:26.600 Devin is twenty one at the time of this interview, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.920 and he's no stranger to IPD. By my account, he 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:35.399 had been arrested around ten times before for various nonviolent offenses. 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:38.119 You've got to understand that we have a job to 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:39.280 do and it's not personal. 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:45.119 But when we have several different factors involving this investigation 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.520 which are suspicious in nature, which you know, I mean, 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:54.520 I understand your drug ucision everything, but the whole argument thing, 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.719 and then just the way that she was positioned. 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.680 As far as well, that's because I think they're okay, 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:01.280 and that's. 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:03.600 Why you're here to explain some of those things that 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.240 we feel that are suspicious nature. 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.800 Yeah, our flights are loud realize it well, obviously. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:13.359 Because people heard you. 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.040 The second detective pushes Devin about a claim he made 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.879 earlier in the interview that Libby choked herself in the past. 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.440 Something about this story seems off to him, like maybe 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.880 it's a little too convenient, so he circles back to it. 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.000 But she's tried to choke herself out with a belt before. 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.160 Yeah, yeah, and I've had to literally pulled. 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.679 Her, pull her hand off and hit the belt out 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.240 from around her night and yeah, and that is the 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:40.880 honest truth. 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:44.639 I mean, do you see And and I've investigated a 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:47.400 lot of dancer, but I've never seen anybody be able 0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:48.639 to choke themselves. 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:49.560 Out and kill themselves. 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:50.119 That's what. 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:52.760 Yeah, you see what I'm saying because you're going to 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:53.400 pass out? 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:58.040 Yes, Cerre first, Yes, Okay, Honestly, I want to see 0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:59.639 if I don't know what exactly, how it. 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:00.520 Hap m hm. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:03.359 So let me ask you a question of it. 0:20:03.880 --> 0:20:07.160 Okay, There's no doubt in my mind that. 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:08.879 You love her to death. There's no doubt in. 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:14.639 My mind that you guys, you know, were high grade school, 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:16.920 middle school to high school sweethearts. 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.720 Okay, but to put this to rest a little bit. 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:30.000 It's something bad happened that thanks got out of controls 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.720 positive that prompts I. 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.640 Doubt help put my hand on the Bible and I'll 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:38.000 put it all and everything I love, all my children 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:39.080 on my son's life. 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:40.480 I would not never do nothing like that. 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.880 Never. Okay what I. 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:45.600 Heard in mind that. 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:47.920 I don't. 0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:49.840 I hope you guys do believe me. 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:54.320 If you don't, everything forensics figures out will prove me 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:56.040 that I have. 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:58.200 I wanted to call y'all and I. 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.040 Would just lived. And you know so I wouldn't have 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:02.440 done that is worth. 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:03.040 The truth is. 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:09.760 Beyond denying any involvement in Libby's death. Devon is adamant 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:11.600 that he'd never heard her before. 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:14.840 I've never put I act a pride in the fact 0:21:14.840 --> 0:21:16.560 that I've never put money into on to the woman 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.239 unless you to. 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:18.560 Stop her from hurt me. 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:20.159 Yeah, and that's like hold her down. 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.399 Stay. Urge is to call there. That's the only thing 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.720 I've ever done that the girl. 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.880 As the second detective said to Devin, some suicides are straightforward, 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.720 some are not. In Libby's case, there were a lot 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:35.840 of suspicious facts at play, but Devin seems to have 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:39.800 explanations for all of them. The weird position of Libby's 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:42.679 body was because he held her and tried to loosen 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:45.639 the belt. He left the scene because he was scared 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:48.800 of the cops and had been using drugs. And yes 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.160 they had an argument, but that's just how their relationship 0:21:52.400 --> 0:21:58.280 was volatile. The interview wraps up just after midnight and 0:21:58.359 --> 0:22:01.359 around the same time i'd he clears the crime scene 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:04.679 at the sports stadium in but before they do so, 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:08.200 they check to see if there's any evidence to corroborate 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.640 Devn's story that Libby hanged herself with a belt over 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:15.840 the bathroom door, and they find something a mark on 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:19.080 the top of the door. The crime scene tech notes 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.280 that it appears fresh and seems to be about the 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:27.760 width of Devon's belt. Schmidley has one more person he 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.679 wants to speak with Devon's friend, Nick, the other person 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.159 inside the motel room that morning and possibly the last 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:40.640 person besides Devin to see Libby alive. At the detective's request, 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.520 Nick comes down to the police station and they talk 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:44.439 for a few minutes. 0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:48.159 It was just you and Devin Ellis, but their okay, 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:51.919 any issues? 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:59.119 No, I mean, she is like very like that's a 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:05.400 just stressed about herself. She's just like very depressed. She's 0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:08.240 dressed under brass. So she was talking about to hitting 0:23:08.240 --> 0:23:09.640 the suicide and I was like, no, you. 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:12.040 Know, when did she talk about comment Suicideamorian? 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:13.919 And I told her. 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:15.320